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AM67T5 - It is only a very silent mind that can actually see
Amsterdam - 30 May 1967
Public Talk 5



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s fifth public talk in Amsterdam, 1967.
0:09 Krishnamurti: I believe this is the last talk.
0:20 We have been considering many problems of life, and I think we should also enquire We have talked about fear, death, and also we went into the question of what love is, and I think we should this evening consider the state of mind that is able to perceive what is true. Because after all, man, not only in the West but also in the East, has been searching, groping after, endlessly, to find out what truth is, and what God is, if there is a God, if there is such a thing as truth.
2:07 Every culture, every civilization, every human being throughout the world has been asking this question.
2:26 And it seems to me, we should not only ask the question, seriously, but also find out for ourselves, not theoretically, not as a vague belief in a concept, in an idea, but the actual fact if there is, or if there is not.
3:07 Of course, there is the whole group of people who deny the very idea of God, because to them it smells too much, it stinks.
3:27 They throw it out, because in the name of religion so many crimes have been committed: there have been so many wars, in the name of God, in the name of peace; there have been such tortures, as in the Inquisition.
3:58 And there are those who firmly assert that there is.
4:11 And to belong to either camp, to the believer, or non-believer, seems to me so utterly immature, because both are conditioned to believe.
4:35 From childhood one is brought up to believe that there is God, that there is a truth, that it must be attained, that only a certain saviour can show them the way or help them and so on.
4:53 And there is the whole communist world which doesn’t believe it at all: from childhood they are conditioned not to believe.
5:06 So there isn’t much difference between the believer and the non-believer, because both are conditioned to believe, and not to believe.
5:22 And it seems to me, to find out if there is such a reality, if there is something beyond the measure of man’s mind, one must set aside totally all belief, or non-belief – and that requires a great deal of energy, because one can deny, or one can accept, but we believe because we are so afraid, our life is so uncertain, our life has very little meaning, it has no significance, a lasting, enduring meaning.
6:37 So we want to find a something that will give us abiding significance, abiding comfort, a depth to our life, and so out of this deep loneliness, misery, uncertainty, we create, or put together, an idea called God or truth.
7:30 And there are those people who say there is no such thing at all, there is only this present life, which must be lived bitterly, without any hope, without any significance, make the best of it, and live as decently, as peacefully as possible.
8:04 And so, to find out, not intellectually, because the intellect cannot answer this question – it can argue, it can dialectically tear opinion down, or invent a theory, but intellect, with all its cunning capacity, can never find out, and the more the intellect enquires, the more it is inclined to believe, because one observes throughout the world, the intellectual people are believers.
9:10 Or they join the other group, they don’t believe.
9:19 But if one seriously, with full intention, demands of oneself that it is absolutely imperative to find out, not to give meaning to life, not as a thing of security, as something that can give comfort – but if one has the intention to find out, one has to end all belief.
10:18 Because belief gives hope, and hope, one needs it, because the life we lead, the everyday miserable, conflicting, anxious life, in which there is no answer, such a life demands a hope, needs a hope, and therefore it invents according to its culture, according to its climate, according to its temperament and inclination, whether it be artistic, material, and so on – such a mind invents, and in what it has invented, in that there lies its hope.
11:32 But a man who would enquire and come upon this reality, if there is one, must obviously not only deny totally all forms of belief, which doesn’t mean he becomes atheistic, a non-believer, but also he must deny every form of hope, because hope is born of belief, and again which doesn’t mean that one becomes cynical, bitter, materialistic, callous, indifferent.
12:37 So a mind that would enquire into this immense question, because it is an immense question, it isn’t just a matter of belief, a matter of words, a matter of concept.
12:56 Man has lived for so long with words, with concepts, with beliefs, with hopes, but has never actually come upon that state of mind which actually perceives ‘what is’.
13:21 And in enquiring into this question there is the danger of falling into the trap of becoming completely superficial.
13:58 That is, when there is no hope, no belief, which demands tremendous understanding, not merely a denial, but when one does put it aside, then there is the danger of becoming materialistic in the sense not of having possessions, a few houses, and so on, but materialistic in the sense of worshipping something in the nature of a state.
14:55 You know what is happening in the world, you deny God on the one hand and create another kind of God, which is the ideology, the communist ideology, or the Catholic ideology, or the Hindu ideology.
15:15 You can deny the ideologies of the religions but also to be extremely alert, not to be caught in the ideologies of the state as all important – or working for the state, or working for man, helping man, and getting lost in that activity, which is obviously very materialistic; which doesn’t mean that one mustn’t help man.
15:59 But to find out if there is a dimension, a totally different dimension, not invented by thought, one must be extremely alert of creating illusion, or fancy, a myth. Illusion exists only when there is a capacity to measure, that is, to compare. And when there is no comparison at all, there is no possibility of illusion.
17:07 And this is important to understand when the mind is enquiring into this extraordinary problem which man has sought after, find an answer.
17:27 And also there is another thing one must be aware of, which is, in denying, in negating, there is the positive – in the very negation is the positive.
17:58 That is, to deny war – not merely on the battlefield but to deny war inwardly, conflict in any form – to totally deny it, and in the very process of denying it there is the energy which is not contaminated by the negative.
18:45 That is, most of us are ‘yes-sayers’. We say ‘yes’. We accept, we never say ‘no’.
19:06 And when we do say no, then it’s merely, if it is not a revolt, which is rather immature – it’s like a child saying no to its parents, that has no meaning at all – but when you deny, when you say no, the very saying no, is the outcome of great understanding.
19:49 And in that saying no, is the positive, and that positive, which is total energy, has no conflict of duality.
20:18 Because conflict exists only when there are two opposed things: when there is fear, and the state of non-fear, when there is violence and its opposite, which is non-violence.
20:48 When these two exist within oneself, then there is conflict, which is, all conflict comes into being through self-contradiction: I want this and I don’t want that.
21:15 But when one denies the actual, that is, the actual being violence, not the non-violence which is not reality at all, which has no meaning, it’s just an idea, and as all ideologies are utterly meaningless, idiotic – to deny violence in oneself, and in the very denial is the energy, which is uncontaminated by its opposite.
22:01 You will have to think about it.
22:08 Look, sir, put it round the other way: if you deny hate, animosity, envy, deny it, not build resistance against it, not escape from it, nor accept it, when you deny violence, or hate, which breeds so much animosity – and you can only deny it when you understand the nature of it, see what is implied in it, not intellectually, but actually – then when you deny that, in that very denial is the positive which is love in which there is no hate.
23:20 Love is not the opposite of hate.
23:29 So when we deny every form of belief, belief in believing God, belief in saying ‘there is no God’, when you deny both – which is to understand why human beings want to believe because in that there is a hope, and one projects hope because one is frightened, one is insecure, anxious, in despair – then when you deny all that, negate it, in that very negation is a positive in which there is no conflict whatsoever.
24:35 So if one has understood that, that in the total denial of man’s structure with regard to what he calls God, or no God, then in that negation is a state of mind which is utterly positive, in which there is no contradiction.
25:25 Such a mind is necessary to find out; to find out if there is, or if there is not, a God, a truth.
25:47 Which means really a mind that is not afraid, nor a mind that merely accepts the world as it is.
26:08 The world as it is needs tremendous revolution, not economic or social, but psychological revolution, deeply, a revolution that is not born of ideas, a revolution not born according to Marx, or Freud, or Jung or any of these opposite camps.
26:43 But a revolution deep in the psyche, and it’s only such a revolution that can bring about a different world altogether.
27:11 So we are going to enquire together.
27:22 That is, you and I, the speaker, are going to investigate whether it is at all possible, not theoretically, not as an idea, but actually.
27:45 You know, when a man is hungry he’s not satisfied with the description of food, he wants it.
27:56 So in the same way you and the speaker are going to explore this question, but as we said, to explore, there must be freedom from every form of belief, otherwise you are tied; it’s like an animal tied to a post, it can wander within the limit of the length of the rope, and therefore it is not free.
28:36 Therefore to enquire, the first imperative necessity is to be totally free of belief, without becoming bitter, cynical, superficial, or merely intellectually inventing theories and living in those theories.
29:15 That is, to enquire, search must come to an end.
29:33 You know, man throughout the ages has been seeking, seeking this immeasurable something.
29:53 Some people have had, they say, the experience of that, and communicate it to others. And the others want it again, they want it too.
30:18 So they go after it, they search it, they seek out.
30:25 But that thing cannot be experienced.
30:34 When you experience that, it is not that.
30:42 When you say, you know what it is, then you don’t know.
30:50 Therefore one must understand this constant seeking, because that’s the outcome of discontent.
31:18 Most human beings are greatly discontent with most superficial things and also at a deeper level.
31:34 There is discontent which can easily be satisfied, and being discontented, we want to find something which will give us a total contentment.
31:59 And so we go after it. So we ask, we beg, we pray, we demand, we seek.
32:14 And man has done this throughout the ages. He says, what is truth, what is God, I must know, I must find out, I must seek it out. And when you seek, obviously you will find what you have projected.
32:43 Please, do understand this.
32:51 If one seeks God, or truth, to find it, you must already have known it; that is, you must be able to recognize it. And if you are able to recognize it, you have already known it.
33:20 It’s a vicious trap, and most of us are caught in it, because we are all seeking, seeking, seeking.
33:35 And that’s why probably most of you are here – without understanding the nature of searching.
33:48 So to enquire is not to seek, because you can see the nature of seeking.
34:16 And when you are not seeking, searching, groping after, then there is no authority – the authority of the priest, the authority of the saint, the authority of the saviour, the authority of any teacher, including that of the speaker.
34:50 There is no authority! And that is necessary. That means complete freedom to find out, not according to somebody.
35:14 So a mind that’s enquiring – rather a mind that is in a state of enquiry, which is very different from enquiring – a mind that is in a state of enquiry is entirely different from a mind that is seeking, because in seeking is implied effort, conformity, authority and therefore conflict.
36:05 And only when every form of authority, conflict, seeking, wanting, it’s only when such a mind is utterly free from every form of authority, whether it’s the authority outwardly of the church, of the priest, of the doctrines, beliefs, dogmas, rituals, or the authority of one’s own experience – then the mind is in a state of constant enquiry, and therefore it is free from illusion.
37:00 That is, when the mind is free from belief, and is not caught in the trap of its opposite, when the mind is free from fear, and hence at the end of seeking, believing, and therefore free from all authority, then it is in a state of enquiry.
37:44 Such a mind is not an open mind, like a sieve: on the contrary! It’s extraordinarily active, because as we explained, it’s only when there is a total denial of that which is not, the total denial of an organized religion which is not truth, then in that denial the positive, which is not touched by conflict, and is therefore completely free from all sense of compulsion, imitation, and therefore it’s capable of perceiving ‘what is’.
38:56 That is, two things are absolutely necessary to find out: the understanding of space, and the nature of silence.
39:36 Space is a most interesting thing to find out – what space means.
39:49 We are talking not of the distance between the earth and the moon, but the psychological space, the space within, because a mind that has no space is a shoddy little mind, a petty little mind.
40:26 It’s caught in a trap and the movement in that trap it calls living.
40:39 But to find out what space is, inwardly, one must actually observe outwardly what is space.
40:59 I do not know if you have ever thought about this at all.
41:09 There is space only when there is a centre from which there is an observation taking place.
41:23 You see me, and I see you, because there is space. You are in space and I’m in space, you who are the observer and the observed.
41:47 So this space, psychological space, can only be understood if there is an understanding of the observer, the centre from which there is observation.
42:16 This hall contains space, because there are four walls and a roof and a floor. Outside this hall there is also space, and within us there is the space which is created by the observer, by the censor, and the space in which he lives.
43:03 Sir, this is becoming a problem, we are not conveying very clearly.
43:13 As long as there is a centre, that centre must create the limited space within the boundaries of his observation.
43:38 That’s fairly simple.
43:46 There is this microphone, it exists within space, and it creates space round itself.
44:05 In us, psychologically, there is the centre which creates the space between itself and the periphery.
44:21 Without the centre the space is entirely different, then there is no boundary.
44:38 When you look at the stars of an evening, you see the distance between yourself and the star.
44:50 That is of time, that’s of distance.
44:59 And when you look at yourself, or the centre is aware of itself, it creates a space round itself.
45:18 And so as long as there is a centre from which there is observation taking place, it can observe extensively, but it’ll always be limited.
45:36 Therefore the space that we know is always limited.
45:43 And the freedom from the limitation only comes when there is no observer, when there is no centre; it’s only then there is freedom.
46:04 And that freedom must exist, because that is space. In that space the mind as thought, with its memories, experiences, which is the very centre of the me, the ‘I’, the ego – that ‘me’, that ego, does, because it is the centre, create round itself a space which is consciousness. And therefore all consciousness is always limited.
46:52 So a mind that is limited by its own centre is not capable of discovering what is true.
47:07 It’s always looking at truth – at something according to its own limitation.
47:17 I’m afraid this one cannot go into in much more detail because there is no time, this evening one cannot do it, but if you are interested in it for yourself, you can go into it, you need nobody’s help, you can observe it in yourself, how little space one has inwardly.
47:45 We are overcrowded, with noise, chattering, endless memories, images, symbols, opinions, knowledge, crammed full of second-hand things.
48:11 And there is no space there at all. And therefore there is no freedom at all.
48:24 And without this space, in which there is no boundary, the mind is incapable of finding out, or coming upon that immeasurable reality.
48:41 Then also one must understand what silence is.
48:54 You know, we are never silent; either we are having a dialogue with ourselves, or with somebody else.
49:14 The machinery of thought is incessantly active, projecting itself, what it should do, what it must not do, how it has been – endlessly chattering, chattering, chattering: or conforming, or accepting, comparing, judging, condemning, imitating, obeying.
49:50 Knowing this, there are the various forms of meditation which tell you how to control thought.
50:03 Controlling thought is not meditation at all, anybody can concentrate from the schoolboy to the highest General preparing for war.
50:29 And it’s only a silent mind that can perceive, that can actually see, not a chattering mind, not a controlled mind, not a mind that is tortured, suppressed, or yielding, indulging. It’s only a very silent mind that can actually see.
50:59 You only see a cloud with its full light and beauty, or a leaf, only when your mind is completely silent, then you actually see.
51:23 Then in that silence the space between you and the leaf disappears, which doesn’t mean you identify yourself with the leaf, which is too idiotic.
51:42 It’s only when a mind is completely silent, not made silent – you can make the mind very silent by taking a tranquillizer, a drug, or controlling, forcing it, then such a mind is a stagnant mind, a dull mind.
52:14 But when one understands the nature of chattering, comparing, the endless gossip that goes on within oneself, the dialogue – when you understand that – and to understand is not an intellectual process but actually to be aware of it, as it is taking place.
52:46 Then out of that alertness, out of that watchfulness, the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet.
53:02 Which doesn’t mean the mind goes to sleep, or becomes blank.
53:11 That is, when one has totally denied the world, the psychological world which man has created for himself, and the society in which he lives – the psychological structure of society of which we are, the greed, the envy, the brutality, the violence, the jealousies, the hatreds, then when you totally deny, then you have space and silence.
53:56 And it is only such a mind that is a religious mind, not belonging to any organized, propagandistic religion – it’s only such a mind that can see what is the immeasurable.
54:15 And such a mind cannot, does not, experience, because it’s a light to itself.
54:32 But all this requires tremendous energy.
54:42 One can derive energy through friction, through conflict.
54:51 One can derive energy by committing oneself to a certain form of activity.
55:01 One can gather energy by identifying oneself with something – what it calls greater. Or have energy by following certain ideologies, and so on, so on, so on.
55:22 In that energy there is always conflict.
55:29 Therefore there is a deterioration of energy.
55:36 But what we are talking about is a state of energy in which there is no conflict whatsoever.
55:50 Therefore that energy is the highest form of intelligence.
56:05 And it’s only such a mind that is perhaps – is the immeasurable.
56:23 Right, sirs.
56:49 If you are so inclined, perhaps we can discuss, talk over together by asking questions.
57:20 You know, you cannot ask a question about what is truth, what is God, what is the purpose of life.
57:32 Such questions have no meaning whatever. A man who sees light doesn’t ask what is light.
57:48 So. Questioner: Could you define contemplation and meditation?
57:58 K: Could you define what is contemplation and what is meditation. The definition is in the dictionary.
58:14 But we are not concerned with definitions or explanations.
58:21 We are concerned with the understanding of what actually is.
58:29 So what is meditation, and what is contemplation?
58:39 If you have listened this whole hour attentively, that is meditation.
58:51 And that’s also contemplation. But if you have listened or merely heard words, and gathered some ideas to carry home and to think about it, then you have no longer meditated. Then you are merely carrying home empty ashes without any meaning.
59:18 Meditation, not according to the various groups that exist throughout the world, but actually meditation is a state of mind which looks, regards, observes everything with complete attention, totally, not just parts of it. Attention is not fragmentary, it’s a total thing.
1:00:01 And no one can teach you how to be attentive.
1:00:09 If any system teaches you how to be attentive, then you are being attentive about that system, and that is not attention, nor is attention concentration.
1:00:30 Concentration is exclusion. You can concentrate with tremendous effort, excluding, building a wall round yourself.
1:00:49 But attention has no wall.
1:01:00 And such is meditation. That’s really, meditation is when the mind is completely silent.
1:01:16 Q: Then it’s not possible...

K: An instant, madame, I haven’t finished.
1:01:23 Wait a minute, sir. Because meditation is one of the greatest arts of life – perhaps the greatest art.
1:01:44 Because in that, in the understanding of meditation there is love, and love is not the product of systems, of habits, of following a method.
1:02:05 Love cannot be cultivated by thought.
1:02:12 Love can perhaps come into being when there is complete silence.
1:02:22 And the mind can only be silent when it understands the nature of its own movement as thought and feeling. And to understand that thought and feeling there must be no condemnation in observing that thought and feeling.
1:02:41 And to so observe is the discipline.
1:02:52 And hence that kind of discipline is fluid, free, not the discipline of conformity. So meditation can take place when you are sitting in a bus, or walking in the woods full of light and shadows, or listening to the singing of birds, or looking at the face of your wife or husband.
1:03:34 Meditation isn’t something apart; it is the understanding of the totality of life in which every form of fragmentation of life has ceased.
1:03:53 And also that is contemplation. To contemplate life, not from a centre, not from your particular idiosyncrasy, tendency, or inclination, but to contemplate the whole movement of life – the misery, the conflict, the confusion, the sorrow, the endless travail of man – to watch that as a total movement.
1:04:32 And you cannot watch it if there is any form of condemnation. Then such contemplation is meditation. And you cannot contemplate or meditate if there is no silence.
1:04:57 Yes, sir?

Q: It’s not possible ever to observe totally one’s own irrational thoughts.
1:05:17 K: It is not possible to watch one’s own thoughts totally.
1:05:24 When you say, it is not possible you have answered the question. It is not possible.

Q: I’ll put it as a question.

K: No, madame.
1:05:37 When you say, it is not possible, you have already blocked yourself.
1:05:44 It’s like a man saying it is possible. He has also blocked himself, prevented himself from observing.
1:05:54 Surely one can observe one’s thoughts.
1:06:01 Have you ever observed your own anger, not after it is over but actually in the state of anger?
1:06:18 Have you observed it? In the state of annoyance, in the state of violence.
1:06:31 That means to observe that, you must be extraordinarily attentive.
1:06:38 Not at that moment but all the – most of the time.
1:06:47 But as most of us are inattentive, because that’s the easiest way to live, and the dullest way to live, to be inattentive, and that has become a habit.
1:07:06 Then we say, how am I to break out of that habit. By observing the whole machinery of habit, because all of us live in habits.
1:07:24 How the mind lives in habit, because it’s the easiest way.
1:07:32 Just to be aware of it, not to condemn it, not to say, it’s right or wrong. Just to watch it – and you can watch it only when you care, when you have affection.
1:07:48 Love is not habit.
1:07:58 Q: If you have to be quiet, how can you then observe...
1:08:03 K: The questioner says, if you have to be quiet. You don’t have to be quiet, madame.
1:08:09 Q: If you are quiet, you have no thoughts, how can you then with that same mind watch your thoughts, or is it a different part of the mind you’re watching?
1:08:23 K: Have you ever observed out of silence?
1:08:32 Attendez, madame. Please, just listen. Have you ever observed out of silence anything?
1:08:42 Q: Yes, I have.

K: No, madame. Please, don’t answer me, I’m just asking you.
1:08:55 You have listened for an hour to the speaker. Have you listened out of silence or with the noise of opinion, judgement, evaluation, of accepting or denying? Have you listened out of silence?
1:09:18 Then if you have listened out of silence, you have understood the totality of life.
1:09:29 If you have not, then you will always be asking how I am to do this, or to do that.
1:09:39 Just watch, please – once. Just watch out of silence a bird, a tree, the movement of clouds.
1:09:54 And then when you have watched the movement of clouds out of silence then watch your husband or your wife out of silence and you will see how immeasurably, how extraordinary difficult it is to watch – specially your husband or your wife because you have images about them.
1:10:23 It’s only in silence that there is relationship, because in silence and out of silence there is love.
1:10:39 Yes, madame?
1:10:46 I’m afraid I can’t hear.
1:10:55 Q: What does it mean to stand alone?

K: What does it mean to stand alone? Is that right, madame? What does it mean to stand alone.
1:11:12 First of all, are we ever alone?
1:11:19 Do you ever walk by yourself in the woods? And if you do, are you alone? You may be alone physically but you are not alone because you are carrying all the memories, all the conflicts, all the worries – you know, you are the past. You are alone only when all that is gone, when there is no family, no gods made by thought, when you are no longer pursued by memories, then alone you are alone. And it is only that aloneness that can see, because it is that aloneness is completely innocent.
1:12:21 It is only the innocent that can see the full beauty of life.
1:12:58 Monsieur, qu’est ce que vous parlez. I am afraid the question is not understood.
1:13:11 Q: Some years ago, people believed in god, many gods, you understand?
1:13:19 Believing in gods is also present in our times.
1:13:31 Belief in gods means consideration of the observation as a form of commitment. Do you see…

K: I’m sorry, sir, I’m not being rude or impatient but I’m afraid we don’t understand the question.
1:13:57 What, sir? What were you going to say, sir?

Q: Well, I said...

K: No, no – this gentleman.
1:14:05 Q: We know from experience that recognition is necessary, so it seems to me that there are two things: one experiences, one recognizes, is it right that action is thereby divided and unity is gone?
1:14:34 K: All right, sir. What is action? When do you act?
1:14:47 There are two kinds of action, aren’t there? When you do something instantly because you understand completely and do it instantly. That is, when you are confronted by a danger of any kind, there is instant action.
1:15:11 And we are not confronted always with danger, but we are acting all the time.
1:15:19 That action is derived from idea. There is the ideology first, the belief, and action according to that belief.
1:15:38 Therefore there is a contradiction between the idea and the action, a division.
1:15:48 Look, sir, when you say, I should be non-violent, I should be happy, I should be this or that, it is an idea, it’s a formula, a concept and according to that, you act.
1:16:12 Which is, action is always an approximation to that idea.
1:16:20 So there is a division between the idea and action. And that’s how we live. I want to fulfil, I want to be the greatest man, or whatever the silly stuff one wants, and one projects that idea and according to that idea there is action.
1:16:43 And therefore action always breeds conflict.
1:16:53 Now, is there – please, one has to go into this and this is not the time – is there an action, conscious action, without idea?
1:17:07 Don’t say yes or no, find out.
1:17:17 And find out also why ideas, formulas, patterns, have become so extraordinarily important in our lives.
1:17:31 One can see why these have become important.
1:17:38 Because without ideas, without patterns, without formulas and ideologies, mind has to be tremendously active, alive, watching.
1:18:04 And as we do not want to be alive, watchful, we invent these ideas, because, to soften our lives.
1:18:20 Yes, sir? No, wait a minute, sir.
1:18:27 Yes, sir?

Q: Observing our own ideas and observing our own thoughts, I feel that there is naturally great tension psychological...
1:18:51 K: Sir, you’ll have to make the question short. In observing, you are saying, sir, please correct me – when you observe your thought there is great attention.
1:19:06 Q: Great tension.

K: Great attention, that is what I said, great attention.
1:19:22 Q: Tension, not attention.

K: Tension, sir. I have understood it. When one observes, the questioner says, one’s thoughts, there is greater strain, greater conflict. There is greater strain. Why does this take place? When you observe your thought, why should there be strain? There is strain, tension, conflict, because you look at your thought with the eyes of condemnation, comparison, judgement. You don’t look at it. When I look at that microphone, I can look at it and not make a strain of it. But if I say, I don’t like it, immediately it becomes a strain. And we compare, judge because we are so conditioned to look at every thing in our life with condemnation, comparison, or justification, never to look at things as they are without any of this. Then you will find, sirs, life becomes very simple, you can look.
1:21:08 I’m afraid one must stop, because it’s getting