Krishnamurti_EN

Krishnamurti Subtitles

The endless cycle of action and reaction

Bombay (Mumbai) - 5 February 1984

Public Talk 2

0:50	Can we wait a little
	till that noise goes by?

2:32	Now we can begin.

2:41	We were going to talk about,
	weren't we,

2:46	if we can live in this world,

2:51	which is pretty insane,

2:55	if it is possible
	to live without conflict.

3:07	And we have
	accustomed ourselves

3:13	to make
	every kind of effort,

3:17	to achieve,
	not only biologically

3:25	but also externally.

3:30	Our society
	is so constructed

3:34	that we have to make
	tremendous effort

3:42	to have a vocation...
	of imitation.

3:54	Can we talk
	to each other quietly?

4:01	We are saying
	that our society

4:08	is made
	so that each one of us

4:13	have to make great
	deal of effort

4:17	to have a job,
	to have a career,

4:22	to accumulate money
	for security, and so on

4:28	– a great deal of effort
	is necessary,

4:32	school, college,
	university, and so on.

4:38	And also
	we have the concept

4:46	that inwardly we also
	must make tremendous effort.

4:56	Effort implies control,

5:00	effort implies conflict,

5:08	inwardly, psychologically,
	and outwardly.

5:15	To this state of things
	we have become accustomed.

5:21	Religious people, business people
	of every kind must make effort.

5:32	And in that effort there is involved
	a great deal of energy,

5:39	in conflict, and so on.

5:47	We are going
	to talk over together

5:50	– what a noisy place this is,
	isn't it? –

5:59	we are going to talk over
	together this question,

6:05	why we live in conflict,

6:09	why we have accustomed
	ourselves to live in this way,

6:16	why human beings,
	right throughout the world,

6:22	have not found a way
	of living daily life

6:27	without all the turmoil,
	all the anxiety, pain.

6:38	And we are trained in vocation,
	which is imitation.

6:53	One can understand why we have
	to make an effort externally.

7:01	In an overpopulated country
	like this,

7:05	badly managed governments,
	and so on,

7:10	we have to make an effort
	to live, to have a job.

7:18	That's understood.

7:21	And we are asking why,
	we human beings,

7:27	have to make inward effort.

7:32	In that is implied
	control, conflict,

7:43	and various forms of struggle,
	anxiety, and so on.

7:54	We are questioning
	why human beings

7:59	have to make inward effort
	at all,

8:02	have inward,
	psychological conflict.

8:08	Is that question clear?

8:12	We are asking, is it necessary
	for human beings

8:20	in their relationship
	with each other

8:24	– because we cannot possibly
	live alone,

8:30	even though you are a hermit
	you are always related to somebody.

8:37	So, we are asking whether it is
	possible to live in this world

8:45	of immense turmoil,
	immense complexity externally,

8:53	whether we can live
	without a single conflict. Right?

8:59	That is the question
	we are going to ask.

9:04	The speaker is not asking
	the question, you are asking,

9:10	because both of us are
	taking the journey together.

9:16	If that is very clear,
	we are, both of us

9:21	are going to enquire carefully
	into this question.

9:28	As we said
	yesterday evening,

9:33	we are not giving
	a lecture, thank God !

9:38	Lecture implies giving you certain
	information on a particular subject,

9:45	to instruct, to inform or to do
	any kind of propaganda.

9:52	We are not doing
	any kind of propaganda.

9:57	We are not trying to convince you
	of anything. Right?

10:03	We are not trying
	to instruct you.

10:09	And so, please, as most
	of us are trained to obey,

10:19	trained to follow,
	trained to accept,

10:26	if your brain
	is so conditioned

10:30	you cannot possibly enquire
	into this very complex question,

10:38	whether it is possible
	to live in this world

10:42	without any sense
	of conflict. Right?

10:49	So, please, you are asking
	these questions of yourself.

10:58	The speaker is only
	acting as a mirror

11:05	in which you see yourself.

11:10	When you see yourself in the mirror,
	reflected exactly,

11:17	then you can
	throw away the mirror,

11:21	destroy the mirror,

11:23	because you have seen
	yourself very clearly.

11:27	So you need no longer have
	a mirror, an interpreter,

11:33	a person who explains
	or analyses. Right?

11:39	Do we understand each other
	up to now,

11:41	that we are not doing
	any kind of propaganda,

11:49	we are not trying
	to convince you of anything.

11:55	On the contrary, we are saying
	you must have doubt.

12:02	You must have
	a great deal of scepticism

12:09	because doubt frees the mind

12:15	from all the accumulated
	tradition,

12:20	all the accumulated nonsense
	which we call religion.

12:28	Religion is something
	entirely different,

12:31	which we will go into
	a little later.

12:35	But to understand
	this problem,

12:39	which is whether
	we can live in this world

12:42	without a single breath
	of conflict.

12:48	Probably you never asked
	this question.

12:59	And probably you say
	it is impossible

13:03	to live in this world
	without conflict.

13:07	If you say it is impossible,
	then you have closed the door.

13:13	Right?

13:15	But if you say it is possible,
	then you also close the door.

13:23	You understand?

13:25	But if you say,
	we are going to enquire

13:29	into a very,
	very complex problem,

13:34	because all our life,
	from childhood till we die,

13:40	it is a series of struggles,
	series of conflicts,

13:48	everlasting pain
	and misery, confusion.

13:55	Right?

13:58	So please, you are asking
	this question.

14:05	And let's go into it
	carefully.

14:11	Why is there conflict
	in our life?

14:18	We can understand there must be
	conflict, struggle to survive

14:25	as the society is constructed
	at the present time,

14:30	where each man
	is out for himself.

14:35	Right? Aren't you?

14:40	In your business,
	in your religious affairs,

14:44	in your concept of
	salvation, enlightenment,

14:49	each one thinks
	he is separate.

14:54	And this separation,
	outwardly and inwardly,

15:00	is one of the major factors
	of conflict. Right?

15:05	We went into that
	a little yesterday.

15:09	Are we following
	each other?

15:14	Are we all asleep
	on Sunday afternoon?

15:19	It is pleasant
	having a restful day,

15:23	and perhaps you will come here
	to be entertained.

15:30	We are slaves
	to entertainment

15:38	– the cinemas,
	the magazines,

15:42	the constant religious
	ceremonies,

15:47	they are a form
	of entertainment, stimulation.

15:51	And perhaps Sunday evening
	is another form of entertainment.

16:00	But this is not
	an entertainment.

16:06	This is a very serious matter

16:11	and requires a great deal of
	not only intellectual capacity

16:19	but a quality of brain
	that is enquiring, pushing, driving.

16:31	To live peacefully
	in this world

16:35	you need a great deal
	of intelligence.

16:41	To live a religious life requires
	far greater intelligence.

16:51	We mean by that word not only
	what the dictionary says,

16:58	which is,
	to read between the lines,

17:05	to gather information.

17:09	That's the function of the intellect,
	to read between the lines,

17:15	to gather information,
	store it

17:20	and use that information,
	knowledge, skilfully.

17:27	Right?

17:29	So, we need not only
	the intellectual capacity

17:38	to understand the depth,

17:41	and to discern, to watch,
	to observe very clearly

17:47	what is a fact
	and what is not a fact.

17:54	Fact being
	that which has happened,

17:59	which is the past
	– that's a fact.

18:02	And also what is happening now
	– that's also a fact.

18:08	You are sitting there and the speaker
	is sitting here – that's a fact.

18:17	One might have had
	a beautiful sunset yesterday,

18:21	and you saw it
	– that's a fact.

18:25	But the future
	is not a fact.

18:31	The future is 'what is', now.

18:38	This is a little bit complex
	– I'll go into it.

18:42	We are the past – our memories,
	our remembrances,

18:48	our accumulation of knowledge,
	and so on,

18:52	all that has happened
	in the past.

18:56	And that past
	meets the present,

19:02	modifies itself and goes on
	to the future.

19:08	So the future is the present.
	Right?

19:14	Have you understood?

19:19	That is, the present contains
	not only the past,

19:26	but the present,
	and also the future.

19:33	Do you see this?

19:35	That means
	the present is all time.

19:40	I won't complicate it,
	we will go along slowly.

19:45	So, as you observe,
	we are living in the past.

19:55	Our memories, our knowledge,
	our remembrances are the past.

20:04	And the present is the past

20:10	modifying itself and
	going on to the future.

20:15	Right?

20:16	The culture, the so-called
	culture of this country,

20:21	has disappeared,
	the ancient culture.

20:26	And it has adjusted itself
	to the modern conditions –

20:34	money, power, and so on –

20:38	adjusted itself
	and is going on into the future.

20:42	So the future
	is the past modified.

20:48	Right? Right?

20:52	So, the whole of this movement
	is time,

20:59	which is evolution.

21:02	I wonder
	if you get all this.

21:05	It's not clever.
	It's not a clever explanation,

21:09	don't go off thinking
	how clever this is.

21:12	But see the fact
	of our daily life.

21:17	Our daily life consists
	not only of the past

21:25	– past incidents,
	past accidents,

21:28	past hurts, wounds
	psychologically,

21:33	and also the past remembrance
	of having a toothache –

21:39	all that is the past,
	and in that past we live.

21:46	Right?

21:49	And that past is all the time
	modifying itself,

21:56	because
	there are new incidents,

22:00	new accidents,
	new impressions,

22:04	and therefore
	it is adjusting itself.

22:07	But it's always the movement
	of the past, rooted in the past.

22:14	Right?
	Do you see this?

22:19	Need I explain further
	any more of this?

22:21	I will.
	It is very complicated.

22:24	So, our life is the past
	meeting the present,

22:34	and therefore the past
	meeting the present

22:38	is one of the factors
	of conflict.

22:43	Do you understand?

22:47	Observe for yourself
	the present state of the world,

22:54	specially the world of India,
	of your country.

22:58	It's not my country.

23:03	My country isn't Europe
	or America, I have no country.

23:08	It's good to be like that.
	Except one has to have a passport,

23:17	but passport doesn't make you
	an Indian, it's a piece of paper.

23:24	So look what is happening
	in this country.

23:27	An ancient culture,
	three to five thousand years old,

23:35	has utterly disappeared.

23:39	Whether it is right or wrong,
	that's not the point.

23:42	The Brahmanical culture – don't get
	excited about it – that has gone.

23:51	And the Western civilisation,
	which is both cultural,

23:57	aesthetic, technological,
	has invaded this country.

24:04	So you have adjusted yourself
	to that pattern.

24:08	Right? You see it.

24:11	So the past is continually
	modifying itself

24:17	and the division
	between the past and the present

24:22	is one of the factors
	of conflict.

24:26	Do you get this?
	Please.

24:30	And therefore is it possible
	to live a daily life

24:38	– not a theoretical life,

24:42	the word and the deed
	are two different things.

24:48	For us, word is more important,
	not the deed.

24:56	You hear all this,

25:01	and that becomes words,
	and it becomes a theory,

25:05	and you carry on with your
	daily life, totally divorced

25:09	from what you have heard,
	or read, or theorised.

25:16	So there is a division between
	the word and the action, deed.

25:23	And that's also one
	of the factors of conflict.

25:28	Right?
	You understand?

25:33	Somebody say yes, for God's sake.
	You all look so asleep !

25:41	So is it possible
	to live a daily life

25:49	– please understand –
	daily life,

25:53	so that
	there is no division

25:57	between the past,
	the future, and the present?

26:06	That is,
	the brain is recording,

26:16	like that recorder there,

26:20	every incident,
	every accident, tendency,

26:24	impressions, physical hurts,
	psychological wounds

26:29	– all that is being taped.

26:34	The brain is
	a recording machine.

26:41	And as long as
	it is recording –

26:49	which is the past –

26:53	that record is preventing you
	from looking at the new.

27:00	Right?

27:02	I wonder
	if you understand all this.

27:10	Now, just take
	a very simple example.

27:13	Psychologically
	you get hurt.

27:19	From childhood through
	the family, through school,

27:25	college, university,
	you get hurt, psychologically.

27:32	You are not as good
	as your brother,

27:35	you are not doing well
	in examinations, and so on.

27:40	All this process is a factor
	of hurting, psychologically.

27:46	And that wound is the past.
	Right?

27:53	Look at yourself, find out
	whether you are wounded.

27:58	Of course, you are wounded.

28:00	Every human being
	is wounded, psychologically,

28:05	by a harsh word from a father,
	from a mother, from a husband, wife,

28:13	it acts as a wound.

28:17	Now, where there is
	a wound psychologically,

28:21	you build a wall of resistance,
	naturally. Right?

28:29	So, that wound prevents you
	further meeting others,

28:39	so that you never want
	to be hurt again.

28:43	Haven't you noticed all this?
	Yes?

28:50	Or you are so extraordinary human
	beings, you have never been hurt.

28:58	So, that wound is the past.

29:02	That wound has been recorded,
	in the brain.

29:09	Now, as long as that record
	remains, there must be fear.

29:17	You get it?
	And therefore conflict.

29:24	So can we not record?

29:33	I need to record how to drive a car,
	to learn a language,

29:42	to do a crooked business.

29:44	I need to have all kinds of knowledge
	to live physically.

29:51	There the brain has to record.
	Right?

29:59	We are questioning why should
	the brain record the wound.

30:07	You understand?

30:10	Because as long as
	there is a record, it must continue

30:16	in the fear of being
	further wounded. Right?

30:22	So, we are asking a question –

30:25	complex, it requires
	careful examination –

30:29	whether it is possible not to record
	psychologically, inwardly?

30:35	You understand? Put that question
	to yourself, please, find out.

30:46	Somebody flatters you, says
	what a marvellous person you are

30:54	– why should you record it?

30:59	And somebody comes
	and says, 'You are an ass'

31:03	and you instantly record.

31:07	This recording is one
	of the factors of conflict. Right?

31:14	If you understand that,
	then you will see

31:18	whether it is possible
	not to record at all.

31:25	Because the self,
	the ego, the 'me',

31:32	is the collection
	of all the records of humanity.

31:39	Right? Right, sir?
	You people !

31:55	The brain has two functions :

32:01	one is to record
	where it is necessary,

32:08	and not to record
	where it is not necessary.

32:13	So the brain then
	is uncluttered, free,

32:22	and therefore you are
	not anymore living in the past.

32:31	Therefore there is no conflict.
	Right? You understand?

32:39	Sir, don't accept
	what the speaker is saying,

32:44	for God's sake,
	or for your own sake.

32:50	Understand for yourself
	the fact.

32:56	The fact is not what you think,
	the fact is 'what is'.

33:05	You can think about it, what
	you think about it is not a fact.

33:11	Right?
	The fact is 'what is'.

33:15	So, if you see
	how to live a life

33:24	in which there is
	extraordinary energy

33:32	and therefore no conflict –

33:37	conflict exists as long as this
	recording process goes on, right? –

33:46	then you will ask the question,
	inevitably, 'How is this possible?'

33:53	Right?

33:54	It sounds
	theoretically excellent,

33:59	but how is this
	to take place? Right?

34:03	You are asking
	this question naturally.

34:06	Now, when you ask 'how', what is
	implied in that question 'how',

34:12	in that word 'how'?

34:17	You want a system,
	you want a pattern,

34:19	you want a method,
	which is the past.

34:24	Do you see this?
	I wonder if you see this.

34:30	You see, we are always asking,
	please tell us how to do something.

34:38	I can understand if am a carpenter,
	I need to go to a master carpenter

34:44	and he'll show me how to do things
	– look at the grain of the wood,

34:52	whether it is right wood,
	and so on, and so on.

34:56	But when I ask 'how'
	inwardly,

35:01	I want a pattern
	which I can follow

35:06	a method which I can copy.

35:10	So, the method, the system,

35:14	the practice is being
	recorded in the brain.

35:20	Right?
	You are following this?

35:24	So, never ask 'how'.

35:34	That is one of the greatest
	discoveries

35:37	– never ask 'how' of anybody
	psychologically.

35:44	Of course, you would ask
	how am I to get from this place

35:48	to the room I live in
	– I have to ask, 'please tell me.'

35:52	That is a different matter.

35:54	But to ask a guru
	– as you all…

36:00	There you are, you have
	all seen various people,

36:03	with their peculiar dress,
	you have got gurus.

36:07	They ask the guru
	how to attain enlightenment.

36:11	And the poor chap
	tells you how.

36:15	All that you do is repeat,
	so that your brain is recording.

36:21	You follow?

36:23	And so that record
	prevents you from clarity.

36:33	Right?

36:35	Now, if you don't ask how,
	if you can put that word

36:41	totally out of your consciousness,
	then what is left?

36:51	Then
	you are looking at yourself,

36:55	you are looking
	at your own activity

36:59	of the past operating on the present,
	modifying itself and going on.

37:05	This cycle. Right?

37:09	The cycle of action-reaction,
	and reaction-action.

37:16	Right?
	This is the cycle we live in.

37:22	It is like a tide going out
	and the same water is coming in.

37:30	Right?
	This is our life.

37:35	Now we are going
	to ask another question,

37:37	which is
	– am I disturbing you too much?

37:44	It's up to you.

37:48	That is, our life is
	action and reaction. Right?

37:56	It's like the tide going out,
	tide coming in,

38:01	challenge – response,

38:06	question – answer.

38:09	Now, as the water goes out
	and the water comes in,

38:16	can there be
	a state of mind, brain,

38:21	when there is
	no action and reaction?

38:25	This requires a great deal
	of observation of yourself.

38:31	I won't go into it,
	it's too complex for the moment.

38:36	So, is it possible not to record?
	Right?

38:46	Not to record insult or flattery.
	Not to record

38:53	– somebody says
	you are an ass or an idiot,

38:56	when you think you are
	a clever man – not to record.

39:03	That is only possible
	when you see

39:06	what the recording process
	does in life.

39:14	Right?

39:16	Suppose you are married,
	or unmarried,

39:18	or live with a girl,
	and so on,

39:22	every incident
	in that relationship,

39:26	whether it is sexual,
	and so on, every incident,

39:31	the word is recorded,
	is taped, recorded.

39:34	Right?
	This is so, isn't it.

39:47	And that record – and you have
	a record of the husband –

39:57	those two records
	are memories. Right?

40:02	And therefore you are living
	in the past – naturally.

40:08	So, what takes place?

40:13	You never meet
	each other afresh.

40:19	Right?
	You never see anything anew.

40:27	Right?
	And there lies the conflict.

40:32	The old
	always meeting the new

40:35	and changing the new
	to conform to the past.

40:40	And making the new conform

40:44	or assimilate to the past
	is a process of conflict.

40:48	I wonder if you
	understand all this !

40:55	Are we exercising our brain
	or merely listening?

41:04	Are you using your brain capacity?
	So, we come back.

41:12	When you are recording all the time,
	you are wasting energy,

41:20	because you remember what you said
	to me and I get angry about it.

41:26	You follow?

41:27	So you discover all recording
	is a wastage of energy.

41:36	Right?
	And you need energy !

41:46	The people who are great scholars,
	who have read such a lot,

41:52	who know so many things
	– haven't you met them? –

42:00	tremendously,
	all stored in the brain.

42:06	Why carry all that
	in your brain?

42:10	They are in the books, you can
	read them – why carry it here?

42:15	No, enquire, go into it,
	you will see.

42:18	You carry it in here
	because it gives you power,

42:23	position, scholarly,
	great pundit.

42:31	Right?

42:33	So your brain then becomes
	so burdened with knowledge,

42:41	and knowledge
	is the enemy of love.

42:45	Oh, for God's sakes !

42:49	If you understand this
	from your heart, not intellectually,

42:57	then
	knowledge has its place,

43:03	and psychologically
	it has no place whatsoever.

43:09	Right?
	Can you live like that?

43:15	Can you live a daily life,

43:22	never recording
	psychologically?

43:29	Would you try it?

43:33	Would you do it
	as you are sitting now there,

43:37	or go home
	and think about it?

43:42	I know you are going
	to think about it,

43:46	probably you are doing that,
	you are thinking about it.

43:51	And that thinking,
	which is born of knowledge,

43:55	is going to prevent love.

44:03	Right?

44:05	So we are going to go
	into another question :

44:15	when you think about something,
	what do you mean by thinking?

44:27	I think about you,

44:33	about my wife, my husband,

44:35	I think about my business
	– think.

44:39	What is thinking?

44:44	Thinking 'about' something
	– right? –

44:49	and thinking – not 'about' something.
	You see the difference?

44:56	Oh, lord !
	Can we go on?

45:00	You aren't too tired?

45:03	Sunday afternoon.

45:08	You can begin all over again
	on Monday morning

45:12	– office,
	the routine sets in.

45:17	At least this evening
	you are more or less free,

45:21	you can enjoy yourself
	to listen to all this rubbish.

45:28	But it is not rubbish.

45:32	It's something
	terribly serious,

45:37	because
	man is destroying himself.

45:45	And knowledge is one
	of the factors of destruction,

45:53	and therefore where there is love
	there is no destruction.

46:05	We must understand
	a certain thing, which is,

46:10	what is thinking and what is
	thinking about something. Right?

46:19	Thinking about something
	is one factor,

46:25	and thinking is another fact
	– right? – thinking.

46:30	So, I can think about Europe
	or Lebanon, the destruction,

46:39	the murder, the appalling things
	that are going on,

46:43	or I'll enquire :
	what is thinking?

46:47	You understand?
	Would you join me in this game?

46:56	We are working out this
	together.

47:00	I am not doing it for my amusement,
	we are doing it together.

47:05	What is thinking?

47:08	When you say, 'I will think
	about what you have said'

47:15	which is thinking
	– about what I have said.

47:23	Or you are actually thinking
	without the object. Right?

47:30	Now, what is thinking?

47:37	Because thought has created the most
	extraordinary things in life,

47:45	the great temples, the great mosques,
	the marvellous cathedrals,

47:50	the splendour of those marvellous
	structures, soaring up into the sky,

47:59	the great paintings, the sculpture,
	the great poems. Right?

48:05	And also thought has created
	the extraordinary instruments of war.

48:15	Thought has also created
	all the things in the temples,

48:19	in the mosques,
	in the churches.

48:23	Right?
	These are facts.

48:27	You may say, 'No, they are
	direct revelation from God',

48:32	when you say that,
	that is also thought. Right?

48:38	So, thought has done
	the most extraordinary things,

48:46	and also done
	the most appalling things.

48:51	Thought has burnt people,
	call them Heretics and burn them.

48:59	And thought said, you must follow
	Marx, Engels, and so on.

49:05	Thought has been extraordinarily
	important in our life.

49:12	Right?
	Do you understand this?

49:16	Now, what is thought?
	What is thinking?

49:26	Look, enquire, look at it,
	look at your own way of thinking.

49:35	You think about your wife
	– suppose, if you ever do –

49:43	you think about
	your wife or husband.

49:49	What is that thinking
	when you think about her or him?

49:53	You have
	the experience of that person,

49:58	the image of that person,

50:00	the nature, the look,
	the structure,

50:05	the appearance of that person,
	which is memory.

50:10	Right? Right, sirs?

50:14	And that memory is based
	on knowledge of that person.

50:21	Right?

50:23	And that knowledge is based
	on the experience with that person.

50:28	Right?
	Do you see this?

50:32	So, thinking is born
	from experience,

50:41	knowledge derived from experience,
	stored in the brain as memory,

50:48	and reaction to that memory
	is thought. Right?

50:57	So thought is
	a material process.

51:03	Would you see that?

51:09	Right, sir?
	So thought is not sacred.

51:13	And whatever it creates
	is not sacred – your Upanishads,

51:19	your Gita, your Bible,
	Koran, is not sacred.

51:27	See what you are accepting
	the moment you say

51:32	thought is a material process.

51:36	It is a material process
	because

51:40	the brain, the brain cells
	contain the past memories,

51:45	past knowledge, past experience,
	and from that thought arises.

51:52	If you had no experience,
	no knowledge,

51:55	no memory, there is no thought.
	Right?

52:02	So look at it carefully
	and you will see it for yourself.

52:06	So thought is
	a material process.

52:12	Would you see that?

52:16	So thought has created God
	and then thought worships God.

52:27	Yes, sir !
	You're had !

52:35	This is very important.
	Please, look at it.

52:42	And if thought is a material process,
	then what are we?

52:54	You understand my question?

52:57	What are we,
	psychologically?

53:03	Thought says you are Hindu.

53:07	Thought says
	you are a great man.

53:10	Thought says you must
	achieve enlightenment.

53:16	Thought says
	you must meditate.

53:21	Thought says obey, follow,
	become like somebody else.

53:32	So thought says become,
	both outwardly,

53:39	if you are a clerk,
	become the manager,

53:43	if you are the manager,
	become the executive,

53:45	if you are the executive,
	the chairman.

53:51	Also, thought says,
	you are a disciple,

53:55	you'll eventually be the master,
	and ultimately the guru,

54:00	and, still further,
	enlightened.

54:04	Thought
	is constructing all this.

54:08	I wonder
	if you realise all this.

54:19	So,
	we live by thought.

54:31	And as experience is limited,
	so knowledge is always limited,

54:40	whether it is scientific knowledge,
	biological knowledge,

54:44	arithmetical knowledge,
	and so on,

54:48	all knowledge is always
	eternally limited.

54:55	Future knowledge is limited.
	Right? Do you see this?

55:02	No, you don't.
	Right, sir?

55:05	Knowledge is limited
	because it is based on experience.

55:10	And because it is experience
	it's limited,

55:13	therefore thought
	is limited.

55:17	Thought can imagine
	the limitless

55:23	and imagine you
	achieving the limitless.

55:27	Right?
	Are you following all this?

55:35	Thought is word.
	Right?

55:39	Thought is the symbol.

55:44	So, the enlightenment,
	the measureless is a word.

55:55	And the word is not the actual.
	You understand all this?

56:02	So, can the brain be free
	of the network of words?

56:09	Yes, sir...

56:15	And the self, the 'me',
	the ego is knowledge.

56:25	Right? Right, sir?

56:30	You pundits,
	would you agree to that?

56:35	The self, the 'me' is the essence
	of knowledge. No?

56:47	All right, let's put it round
	the other way, what is the self?

56:51	What are you?

56:56	Come on, sir, what are you?

56:59	Your name, your form,
	the clothes you wear

57:05	if you are a sannyasi
	of a peculiar kind,

57:12	you have a bank account,

57:14	you are a businessman,
	you have had a lot of experience,

57:20	you have had
	a great deal of pleasure,

57:24	pain, anxiety,
	loneliness, sorrow

57:29	right?
	You are that, aren't you?

57:35	Right?
	Would you acknowledge that?

57:38	Or do you say, 'I am atman,
	something far superior.'

57:43	Oh yes, you all do.

57:47	If you say, 'I am far superior',
	that's also the invention of thought.

57:56	Right?

57:59	Because you have read about it, say,
	'By Jove, there is a higher self.'

58:06	Or some guru
	comes along and says,

58:08	'There is super-consciousness
	and you must draw it down.'

58:14	Right?

58:16	So all that process is
	a movement of thought,

58:25	– and thought is time.
	Right?

58:33	Because to acquire knowledge
	requires time.

58:38	To acquire knowledge, say Russian,
	or English, or Spanish, or French,

58:45	requires
	a great deal of time.

58:48	You may spend three months
	or a year, that is time.

58:54	So to acquire knowledge, inwardly
	or outwardly, requires time. Right?

59:04	To learn about yourself
	is to have time.

59:11	Right?
	Do you understand this?

59:17	See what game
	you are playing with yourself.

59:22	I want to learn about myself
	– self-knowledge

59:26	which I have talked
	a great deal about –

59:31	self-knowledge,
	to know myself.

59:34	And to know myself, I must
	investigate, I must observe,

59:38	I must analyse, I must have
	introspection – you follow? –

59:42	watch, learn, observe,
	self-recollected, be aware,

59:48	all that takes time.

59:51	Right? Would you agree to that?
	Do you see that?

59:59	All that requires time.

1:00:01	To know about the moon
	requires time.

1:00:08	This is simple.

1:00:10	And also to know myself,
	we have said, 'I require time'.

1:00:16	Right?

1:00:20	Which means what?

1:00:21	Oh, you are missing so much,
	what is the matter with you?

1:00:33	Time is the enemy of man.

1:00:44	Illumination is not
	enlightenment through time.

1:00:51	It isn't a gradual process,
	success after success.

1:01:02	When you see thought is time
	– of course.

1:01:08	Thought is movement
	and time is movement.

1:01:13	Clear? So, thought and time
	go together.

1:01:20	They are not separate.

1:01:21	Thought is time
	and time is thought.

1:01:27	So thought says,
	I must become enlightened.

1:01:33	I must become,
	from what I am, what I should be.

1:01:39	That is... Goodness,
	need I explain all these things?

1:01:46	I am violent.
	Human beings are violent.

1:01:53	You are violent,
	aren't you?

1:01:58	And you say, 'I must not
	be violent, or become non-violent'.

1:02:07	So to become non-violent
	takes time.

1:02:12	During that interval of becoming
	non-violent, you are being violent.

1:02:21	So non-violence is nonsense.
	Right?

1:02:29	What is fact is violence.

1:02:34	So, our brains are trained
	to become.

1:02:40	As you become a clerk,
	reach the ladder,

1:02:45	the same is extended
	to the psychological world.

1:02:51	You are following?

1:02:53	There we say, 'I am ignorant,
	I must have knowledge about myself.'

1:02:58	'I am violent,
	I must become non-violent.'

1:03:04	I am angry, I must become
	without anger.

1:03:10	Now, look at it carefully.

1:03:14	You are violent. Violence
	is not separate from you.

1:03:22	Would you agree to that?

1:03:28	The Hindus are very clever
	birds.

1:03:32	They'll agree up to a point.
	I can see it in their faces.

1:03:39	But they have got
	behind them the idea

1:03:42	that the 'me' is different
	from the observer.

1:03:47	The person who witnesses
	is different.

1:03:50	Right? You know the game
	you are playing !

1:03:58	Is that a fact?

1:04:01	Is it a fact that there is
	an observer different from anger?

1:04:09	Careful, don't answer it,
	look at it carefully.

1:04:14	Anger is me.
	I am not different from anger.

1:04:18	Right?
	Violence is me.

1:04:23	Non-violence is not me

1:04:28	– right? –
	that's just an idea.

1:04:31	The fact is I am violent.
	That is a fact.

1:04:35	Non-violence is non-fact.

1:04:39	But we pursue non-fact
	because we don't know

1:04:43	how to deal with 'what is'.
	You are following this?

1:04:56	So, the observer
	is not different from the observed.

1:05:05	Right? No, this is difficult.

1:05:12	Goodness ! I'll go into it.

1:05:17	You see that tree over there
	– if you ever look at trees.

1:05:24	When you look at a tree, the tree is
	obviously different from you.

1:05:32	Right?
	The cloud of an evening

1:05:36	full of light and beauty,
	is different from you.

1:05:42	But when you look at that tree,
	what takes place?

1:05:49	Do look at the tree
	– what takes place?

1:05:55	You immediately use the word.
	Right?

1:06:01	So the word interferes
	from looking at it.

1:06:09	She is my wife or my husband
	– finished.

1:06:17	Right?
	Don't you know all this?

1:06:24	So the word is preventing you
	from observing.

1:06:32	And also the word
	is not the thing.

1:06:38	The word 'tree'
	is not the tree.

1:06:41	The word 'my wife' is not the wife.
	I wonder if you see this !

1:06:47	If you see this,
	your relationship with your wife

1:06:50	will be entirely different.
	Oh, you people.

1:06:58	So, time is thought.

1:07:05	And thought says,
	'I am this, I must become that.'

1:07:11	Therefore, the becoming
	implies time.

1:07:16	And what are you becoming?

1:07:22	You pundits answer this,
	what are you becoming?

1:07:28	More enlightened?
	Better human being?

1:07:35	You are not good, but you say,
	'I will become good.'

1:07:42	And when you are becoming good
	you will never be good !

1:07:48	I wonder if you see that.

1:07:51	So there is no becoming, which is
	one of the factors of conflict.

1:07:59	But if you say, 'All right,
	the fact is, violence is me,

1:08:07	violence is not separate
	from me.'

1:08:11	That is a fact.

1:08:15	The 'me' is my face, the 'me' is my
	character, my – all the rest of it.

1:08:22	But we have separated the 'me' from
	the thing that is happening. Right?

1:08:29	That is, thought has separated
	violence from the thinker.

1:08:40	Right?
	Are you getting tired?

1:08:44	Oh no...You must be tired.

1:08:51	Because you are just
	not co-operating, working,

1:08:56	that is why you say,
	'I am not tired.'

1:08:59	If you are co-operating,
	working,

1:09:03	you'll see what an extraordinary
	thing is going on with your brain.

1:09:11	Look, violence is me,
	greed is me, anger is me.

1:09:23	Later on I say, 'I have been angry',
	but the fact is anger,

1:09:31	jealousy, hate, anxiety...
	is me.

1:09:39	So the observer
	is the observed. Right?

1:09:47	Right, sir? Do you see this?
	Oh no, you don't.

1:09:57	Sir, one of the factors of conflict
	is that we have divided

1:10:05	the thinker from thought.
	Right?

1:10:13	Without thought
	there is no thinker. Right?

1:10:18	But we have separated the thinker,
	the experiencer from the experience.

1:10:24	We have separated analyser
	from the analysed. Right?

1:10:31	Haven't you noticed this? So there is
	perpetual conflict, division.

1:10:37	So the observer
	is the observed.

1:10:42	The experiencer
	is the experience.

1:10:47	Go into the question of
	– I have got no time.

1:10:54	You all want to experience,
	don't you?

1:10:57	Nirvana
	or some other factor,

1:11:01	sex or any other
	– you want to experience.

1:11:04	What is experience?

1:11:12	How do you know
	it is an experience?

1:11:17	Only you know it
	when you recognise it. Right?

1:11:22	So, see what is happening :

1:11:25	when you recognise it,
	it is not new.

1:11:30	But yet you call that,
	'I must have new experience.'

1:11:34	So all experiences,
	when recognised,

1:11:38	are merely
	the past remembrance.

1:11:42	Yes, sir, get this into your blood
	and you will see what takes place.

1:11:48	Then your mind is so alert,
	so aware, so attentive,

1:11:53	there is no experience at all.
	You won't understand all this.

1:11:59	So, we are enquiring
	into the cause of conflict.

1:12:07	One of the cause of conflict
	is duality. Right?

1:12:15	Violence and non-violence,
	that's duality.

1:12:20	Good and the bad,
	hate and love.

1:12:26	Why do we have duality?

1:12:30	Don't translate it to advaita
	or some other Sanskrit word

1:12:33	and get away with it.

1:12:36	Why do we have duality?
	What is duality?

1:12:42	You are a woman, I am a man,
	you are tall, I am short,

1:12:46	you are fair, another is light,
	or lighter, whatever it is.

1:12:53	Right? Only duality exists
	when there is comparison.

1:13:00	Are you following all this?

1:13:03	When I compare myself with you,
	I have created duality.

1:13:10	Right, sir?

1:13:17	So if I don't compare,
	there is no duality.

1:13:23	That is,
	I have invented non-violence

1:13:31	– this country is full of that,
	non-violence,

1:13:34	at least they talk about it.

1:13:39	But the fact is
	they are violent.

1:13:43	The fact.
	The fact has no duality.

1:13:50	Ah, I see that, I just discovered it.
	You understand?

1:13:56	The fact has no opposite.

1:14:07	I am angry, that's a fact.

1:14:12	When I say, 'I must not be angry',
	then duality arises.

1:14:20	So – very interesting,
	use your brains,

1:14:24	go into all this –
	so, I am angry.

1:14:31	That is a fact.
	What am I to do?

1:14:34	I won't say,
	'I must not be angry',

1:14:37	then I am in conflict,
	you understand?

1:14:42	I won't suppress it.

1:14:46	There is no suppression, there is no
	escape, there is no transcending it.

1:14:52	So what happens?

1:14:56	Go on, sir, what happens when there
	is no movement away from the fact?

1:15:09	Go.

1:15:14	It is : the movement away from it
	creates conflict, creates duality.

1:15:24	And volumes have been written
	by clever Indians about duality.

1:15:33	The speaker has said there is no
	duality right from the beginning

1:15:36	because there is only
	the fact.

1:15:41	But when I want to get over
	the fact, then I create duality.

1:15:48	Right, sir? See.
	Then what takes place?

1:15:52	How to remain with the fact?
	You understand?

1:15:57	Not move away from the fact.

1:16:00	Any movement away from the fact
	is conflict and duality.

1:16:07	So, when you remain with the fact,
	what takes place?

1:16:16	You work it out. I am working
	it out, but you work it.

1:16:21	What happens
	when you remain with the fact?

1:16:29	Which means what?
	You are…

1:16:33	I can tell you, you will say,
	'Yes, yes', and go away.

1:16:39	You don't apply !

1:16:45	Sir, look, when I move away
	from the fact, I have lost energy.

1:16:54	Right?
	Do you see that?

1:16:57	When I move away from the fact,
	it is a wastage of energy. Right?

1:17:06	So when there is no movement
	away from the fact,

1:17:11	all energy is there.

1:17:15	Which means, complete attention
	there, with the fact.

1:17:22	And when there is complete attention,
	then it is like light,

1:17:29	high powered light
	being thrown on the fact.

1:17:35	And then the fact reveals
	all its content.

1:17:40	You understand?
	Then the fact has no meaning.

1:17:44	Oh, come on !
	You understand?

1:17:55	Now, look : we said knowledge
	is an enemy of love,

1:18:13	and love has no opposite.

1:18:18	But we have made opposite
	– hate.

1:18:25	Sorry – slight cramp.

1:18:29	I am working too hard
	for you, that's what it is.

1:18:45	So, sirs, we have examined a very,
	very complex problem.

1:18:54	We have examined together.

1:18:59	The speaker has not examined,
	you have examined.

1:19:06	The speaker is merely
	acting as your voice.

1:19:14	The speaker is merely
	showing 'what is'.

1:19:21	And you are looking at it,
	looking at yourself.

1:19:29	And when you look
	at yourself carefully,

1:19:34	you are nothing
	but the past,

1:19:40	past memories, past remembrances,
	past pleasures.

1:19:48	And when you suffer, as most
	human beings do, unfortunately,

1:19:57	again, escape from it.

1:20:01	So when you remain with a fact,
	it is like looking

1:20:08	at a bud,
	looking at a rose bud.

1:20:13	And you will see the rose bud open,
	the perfume of it,

1:20:18	the beauty of it, the quality of it,
	the gentleness, the tenderness.

1:20:27	And when you observe the fact,
	it fades away. Right.

1:20:35	We will continue
	next weekend,

1:20:39	talking about fear, sorrow,

1:20:47	what is religion,
	what is meditation,

1:20:51	what is death, because all this
	is part of our life.

1:20:58	You cannot separate
	one from the other.

1:21:04	You cannot say, 'I am going
	to meditate', and be a stupid person.

1:21:12	To understand life, this whole
	complex problem of life,

1:21:18	you need great patience.

1:21:22	Not the patience of time
	– patience.

1:21:27	You need a brain that is alive,
	questioning, asking, doubting,

1:21:38	and then you will find out
	for yourself without word

1:21:42	that which is not
	measured by words.

1:21:48	Sorry if I have kept you.