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BR72DSS1.02 - You can live without an image
Brockwood Park, UK - 23 May 1972
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.02



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s second discussion with teachers and students at Brockwood Park, 1972.
0:13 Krishnamurti: Have you got any ideas what we should talk about this morning? (Pause) Questioner: There’s thinking in daily life and then there’s thinking which isn’t necessary.
1:04 K: Ah, that’s rather a complex problem, isn’t it? I don’t know if you want to discuss that.
1:25 Q: I feel it causes a lot of the problems, thought of that kind.
1:30 K: Yes, I understand, sir, but it may be rather difficult to discuss that with young people, you know?
1:38 So perhaps we can go into that at another time. I am just wondering how to release, if one has, a creative energy.
1:49 You know what I mean by that?
1:58 You’ve got plenty of energy when we want to do something, and we want to do it very badly, we have got enough energy to do it, to play, and when we want to play very badly we do have plenty of energy.
2:21 When we want to go for a long walk we have energy. When we want to hurt people we have energy. When we get angry, that’s an indication of energy. When we talk endlessly, that’s also an expression of energy.
2:49 Now what is the difference? Does this interest you?
2:53 Q: Yes.
2:56 K: What is the difference – I’m just thinking it aloud now – what is the difference between that kind of energy – you understand?
3:06 – physical energy, when you want to do something, there is energy that is brought about through friction, which is anger, which is tension, which is dislike, or pleasure – you understand?
3:31 – there is that purely physical energy; there is the energy derived through tension, through conflict, through ambition; and is there any other kind of energy?
3:54 We only know these two. The energy that a good, healthy body has, a body that is not frightened, that is not neurotic, that has not been hurt, that has got tremendous energy.
4:23 Then there is the energy that one gets through every kind of struggle, friction, conflict.
4:34 Right? Have you noticed this? There are great writers who lead a terrible life, miserable life, life of conflict in their relationship with each other, with their wife, with their husband, with people generally, and this tension gives them a tremendous energy.
5:03 And because they’ve got a certain capacity or a gift to write, that energy expresses through writing.
5:14 Right? You see all this? Now what kind of energy have you?
5:32 Physical energy. Naturally being young, you should have plenty of it, abundance of it.
5:41 And is there… have you the other kind of energy, which drives you through hate, through anger, through ambition, through tension, through conflict, resistance?
5:55 You follow? Because if I resist you, I have got tremendous energy; I dislike you, I’ve got energy.
6:07 Which means there is an energy with motive. I dislike you, I fight you because I want to have your position, whatever it is, and that gives me energy.
6:22 And behind that energy there is a motive. You’ve got it? So, is there energy which is without motive?
6:42 Now you see the three types?
6:50 Physical energy, energy through conflict and resistance, energy through fear, energy through the pursuit of pleasure.
7:04 Are you getting all this? And is there any other kind of energy, energy which is without motive?
7:36 I want to get a job, because I need it, and the drive for the necessity of a job gives me enough energy to go up to town so that you walk, ask, demand, push.
7:55 You follow? Because there is a motive behind it.
8:07 And where there is motive the energy is always restricted, limited. I don’t know if you see all this.
8:21 It’s like a free-running motor without any resistance that can go on indefinitely; the moment there is a motive it acts as a brake.
8:37 You see the point? So have you that kind of energy, energy that is always braking, has a brake put on it, because it has a motive?
8:55 Go into it, sir, discuss with me. I’m just thinking it out.
9:07 If you do something without a motive… Have you ever done anything without a motive?
9:21 Motive being, fear, resistance, like and dislike, wanting something from you, wanting to get your place – you follow? – be as good as you, in class or in whatever it is.
9:42 Those are all… they all have a motive which drives them forward.
9:52 Now do you know any action without any motive? Or is there such action at all? You follow? We’re inquiring. What do you say?
10:00 Q: Wouldn’t the problem be more that whether you are conscious of it or not, of the motive?
10:11 Because you can have action with a motive, but if you’re...
10:18 K: ...if you are unconscious of it…
10:23 Q: …then you… (inaudible) K: Quite right. So you’re saying I may think I am acting without a motive and yet have a motive which is hidden.
10:37 Q: Yes, or the contrary.
10:38 K: Or the contrary. Yes. Now which is it, in yourself? Inquire, go into yourself, find out.
10:50 Look at yourself. Do you know what it is to look at yourself? Don’t you look at yourself when you comb your hair in the mirror?
11:02 You do, don’t you? Now, what do you see? You see your reflection in the mirror. Exactly what you look like is reflected there – unless the mirror is crooked or something. Now, can you look at yourself in the same way as you see yourself in a mirror?
11:29 You understand what I am saying? Look at yourself without any distortion, without any twist, without any deviation, just to see exactly as you see in a mirror, yourself.
11:52 And then only you will find out whether you’re acting with a motive or without a motive.
11:59 Right? Can you look at yourself very simply and very clearly, as though you were looking at yourself in a mirror?
12:15 You know, it’s very difficult, what we’re talking about. I don’t know if you have ever done it.
12:25 Because we’re investigating into the question whether all our actions – going to meals punctually, getting up, whatever we do, has it a motive behind it?
12:44 Or is there a certain sense of freedom to move?
12:51 Q: What do you mean by freedom to move?
13:02 K: Wait a minute. Freedom. You know? Freedom, just to move. (Laughs) Without fear, without resistance, without a motive. To live. And to find that out, Tunki, we’re saying: you have enough physical energy – right?
13:27 If you want to build an aeroplane you build it. It would take time, you go into it, you investigate, you ask, you read about it, and put your mind into it and your heart into it and build it.
13:44 That requires a great deal of energy. And in that you have great interest, in building the aeroplane. Right? The motive there is the interest, to build. Right? And the interest is your motive.
14:03 Q: Yes.
14:05 K: Now wait a minute. In that is there any friction, any struggle, any resistance?
14:26 You want to build that aeroplane. I come along and prevent you, because I say, ‘Please, don’t be silly, that’s toyish, childish,’ and you resist me, don’t you?
14:40 Because your interest is to build and I come along and thwart you, prevent you. So you resist me. Now see what happens. When you resist me you’re wasting your energy, aren’t you?
14:56 Q: Yes.
14:57 K: And therefore you have less energy to build the aeroplane. No, see this, go into it, watch it. Now can your interest not be weakened, though I resist, though I say you are silly?
15:17 Do you see the point?
15:24 Q: Yes.
15:30 K: I want to go out for a walk because it’s a lovely day.
15:40 And that’s my interest, I want to see the trees, the birds, listen to the birds, and the new leaf – you know? – a spring day, it’s a marvellous day, I want to go out.
15:51 And you come along and say, ‘Please help me in the kitchen.’ What takes place in me?
15:59 I’m bored in the kitchen, I don’t want to do it, because my interest is to go out for a walk.
16:07 Right? So there is a division in what I should do, isn’t there?
16:18 The division is a waste of energy, isn’t it? I don’t know if you see it.
16:24 Q: Yes.
16:26 K: So what shall I do? You understand? I want to go out for a walk, tremendously, and you come and ask me, ‘Come and help me in the kitchen.’ What shall I do?
16:48 Go on, sir. Come on, I’m doing all the investigation, you just listen.
16:59 What shall I do? Knowing that it’s a wastage of energy if I say, ‘Oh lord, what a bore the kitchen is, and I really want to go out for a walk.’ What shall I do, so that I shall not waste energy?
17:30 You have understood my question? What will you do? Come on, discuss with me. What shall I do?
17:40 Q: What do you mean by waste energy?
17:46 K: I’ll show you. Isn’t there a waste of energy? You ask me to come and help you in the kitchen. I really want to go out for a walk.
18:01 If I am only doing what I want to do and go out for a walk, what happens to your question, ‘Come and help me’?
18:12 I have a feeling of guilt, don’t I?
18:19 I say, ‘My goodness, all my walk is spoilt!’ You understand? (Laughs) I say, ‘Oh lord, I ought to have gone.’ You know? I fight. That’s a wastage of energy, isn’t it?
18:32 Q: You mean just the conflict.
18:35 K: The conflict is a wastage of energy, isn’t it?
18:40 Q: Yes.
18:41 K: So what shall I do? You ask me to help you in the kitchen and I want to go out for a walk very much.
18:52 What shall I do? Knowing that if I yield to you, if I come to the kitchen, I say, ‘Oh my God, what a lovely day it is, why am I not out?’ You follow?
19:09 And if I do go out for a walk I say, ‘My goodness, why didn’t…’ – you know? (Laughs) Q: See what’s needed more.
19:17 K: No, no, don’t... Not what is needed more, that’s… How would you answer this? Go on investigate it. So that I do something without wastage of energy, which is conflict. I do something without conflict. You’ve understood my question? Have you understood it? Now what shall I do? Come on, Rachael, what shall I do?
20:09 You understand my question? I don’t want to have a struggle in myself. I shall have struggle if I go out for a walk, when you’ve asked me to come and help you.
20:21 If I go into the kitchen and I really want to go out for a walk, I’ll also have a struggle in the kitchen – right? – in myself.
20:29 So I want to do something without a struggle. What shall I do, in these circumstances?
20:36 Q: Explain to the person who’s asked you, your feelings.
20:41 K: Explain to whom?
20:42 Q: The person who has asked you.
20:43 K: Why should I explain?
20:45 Q: So the person will understand.
20:48 K: Yes, he asked me to come and help him. He wants my help, because very few people want to peel potatoes.
21:01 So he asked for my help. Can I talk to him and say, ‘Look, I really want to go out for a walk, it’s such a lovely day, do come with me’? But the potatoes have to be peeled. Right? So what shall I do?
21:20 (Laughs) Come on, sirs.
21:26 Q: Act responsively.
21:30 K: Act responsively. That is, act with responsibility, are you saying?
21:34 Q: Yes.
21:35 K: Now what is my responsibility here? I’d love to go out for a walk. That’s my responsibility too. So what shall I do? (Laughs) Q: How does one know that the walk gives more pleasure than the kitchen work?
21:59 K: I want to go out for a walk. It’s a lovely day. What are you talking about? (Laughs) It’s a beautiful day, lovely clouds, and to go and peel potatoes is terrible, when the birds are calling.
22:18 (Laughs) Come on, sir, what shall I do? Use your brain cells, come on.
22:28 Q: It doesn’t matter what you do as long as, after you said that your either going to help in the kitchen or go out for the walk, as long as you just leave it there and don’t…
22:37 (inaudible) K: How can I leave it there? How can I leave it there? When you ask me to come into the kitchen and I want to go out for a walk, how can I leave it there? Just remain in the room and do nothing?
22:46 Q: No, what I’m saying is, in other words, once you’ve made your decision...
22:50 K: I haven’t made my decision. I am going out for a walk, out of the door. You come along and say, ‘Come into the kitchen, we need help.’ What shall I do? I don’t want to have a struggle – you understand? – which is a waste of energy. What shall I do?
23:05 Q: You go to the kitchen and afterwards you go for the walk.
23:13 (Laughter) K: When I do go for a walk, I’ll be tortured by my conscience. Conscience, or whatever it is.
23:21 Q: But if you understand the whole situation would there be this conflict?
23:28 K: What is the whole situation? The kitchen? The lovely sunlight and shade? And my desire to go out for a walk.
23:43 You’re not investigating, you’re just looking at it.
23:50 Go on, apply your minds!
23:52 Q: Isn’t that a desire to satisfy the personal needs?
23:57 K: Why shouldn’t be satisfied? It’s a lovely day.
23:59 Q: You are just saying, sir, straight away, without making a decision, you do one, and then when you do that one, that one thing, whatever it is, having a walk or doing the potatoes, you do all of that.
24:19 And because you’ve decided to do one, either take a walk, or peel the potatoes...
24:24 K: Sir, no you’re missing my point.
24:25 Q: …you don’t look at the other one.
24:27 K: I want to go out for a walk. I’m on my way out through that door, and he comes along and says, ‘Please come in, come to the kitchen and help me, because we need some people to peel potatoes.’ And I say, ‘Oh lord, I wish I’d gone ten minutes earlier.
24:44 I wish I hadn’t met you.’ Q: Well this happened to me.
24:50 K: Wait, wait, wait, sir. This happens to all of us, don’t…
24:53 Q: I go to the kitchen without a coffee, and after I finish I go for a walk.
24:58 K: Ah, then you are insensitive. (Laughter) Because he has asked me to come into the kitchen and help him peel potatoes.
25:09 He needs help there. I just can’t say, ‘Well, you go and ask somebody else and I’m going for a walk.’ If I do that I’m going to be tortured on the walk, won’t I?
25:23 Q: Yes.
25:25 Q: No, not if you peel the potatoes and just give all your whole energy to everything, to the potatoes, then the walk doesn’t even exist, because you’re giving everything to the potatoes.
25:36 K: No, sir, I don’t want to give everything to the potatoes. (Laughter) You’re missing my point altogether.
25:43 Q: Actually whatever you do, you’re going to be in conflict.
25:50 K: No, I don’t want to be in conflict. (Laughter) I’m not going to be in conflict.
25:57 Q: What about to go to the kitchen without any conflict, to the job, and then to go for a walk, without any conflict?
26:05 K: Look, you have misunderstood my question. He wants… he comes to me on my way to the walk, says, ‘We need urgently your help in the kitchen.’ He needs it.
26:21 What shall I do? Drop my walk and go and help in the kitchen? And when I look out of the window I say, ‘My God, I wish I’d… Two minutes earlier I would have missed the bird.’ (Laughs) So what shall I do? Put your mind to it, sirs. What shall I do?
26:39 Q: I look at myself. I look at that, I look at myself.
26:43 K: Looking at myself, what shall I do?
26:45 Q: I look at this conflict, this desire.
26:49 K: What shall I do?
26:51 Q: Look at it.
26:53 K: I’m looking at it. What shall I do? Go out for a walk or go to the kitchen? And not to have conflict at all, which is a waste of energy. Right?
27:04 Q: Yes.
27:05 K: Now what shall I do?
27:06 Q: El trasfondo del que pide ayuda? Qué papel juega en su pregunta? [What is the background of the person who asks for help? What is the role of this background in the question?] K: He’s asking: why am I asking that question?
27:22 But this happens in life.
27:24 Q: No, no, no. This is not my question.
27:28 K: Ah!
27:29 Q: Qué papel juega…
27:30 K: Per qué?
27:31 Q: …el trasfondo de el que pide ayuda? [What about the motive of the person who asks for help?] Q: It influences the background of the person, why is he asking you to go and help, if it influence the background?
27:49 K: Oh, my God. There is nobody in the kitchen, he wants my help. This is… (laughs) You’re making…
27:56 Q: Actually being sensitive and understanding a situation, this drive or this energy would spring up, and obviously…
28:05 K: Look, look, what will you do? Put yourself in that position. You are just going out for a walk, he comes along and says, ‘Come into the kitchen’ – what will you do?
28:16 Q: If the kitchen really needs me, I’ll go and help in the kitchen.
28:20 K: He says he needs you.
28:21 Q: Yes.
28:22 K: So you’ll go in there. But what happens to your walk?
28:24 Q: You go afterwards. You wait.
28:26 Q: The walk’s not there, it’s only there while thinking about it.
28:30 K: Wait, wait! There are huge clouds and darkness comes. You follow? And I say, ‘It’s raining, my God, why did you spoil my walk?’ Q: But you’re lucky – you’d probably have got wet anyway. (Laughter) K: You people! You’re not answering my question at all.
28:44 Q: I wouldn’t go now, because there is a state of duality, wanting to do something and I cannot do it.
28:53 Q: Sir, I can’t answer the question at all.
29:00 I don’t see any way.
29:05 K: Haven’t you ever been put in that position?
29:07 Q: Yes.
29:08 K: What do you do?
29:09 Q: I do one or the other, with conflict.
29:12 K: Ah, no. No, no, no, no. What do you do? Go into the kitchen, or say, ‘Go to hell, I’m going for a walk’?
29:21 Q: Sometimes one, sometimes the other.
29:23 K: That’s too… I want… Here is a situation which I am putting to you, which happens to all of us, and you realise I must struggle, to fight in myself – kitchen or walk, kitchen or walk? – is a wastage of energy.
29:46 What shall I do?
29:49 Q: I see how far relevant it is.
29:54 K: Do something else?
29:56 Q: No, how far relevant it is.
30:01 Q: Relevant to what?
30:03 Q: How relevant it is to one or the other.
30:06 K: Macché!
30:07 Q: Whether it is really needed or it is... (inaudible) K: But he says, ‘I need your help in the kitchen.’ That’s very relevant to him, and for the potatoes.
30:14 (Laughter) Q: If you don’t go and help peel the potatoes the school might be without potatoes for lunch.
30:25 K: So, my dear chap, you’re all asking… What will you do?
30:28 Q: You act.
30:31 K: You act. Now wait a minute. You act. What is your action based on?
30:36 Q: Energy. Just direct energy to what’s right.
30:40 K: No. You see, you… (laughs) You say you’ll act. What is that action, in which there is no conflict?
30:50 Listen to it. What will you do in this situation when two things are contradictory?
30:59 You follow? Kitchen, walk. An action in which there is no conflict, no contradiction. What will you do?
31:13 Have you got my question right?
31:14 Q: Yes, sir.
31:16 K: Then what will you do?
31:18 Q: It’s like it’s very difficult to answer.
31:22 Q: What is the thing that creates the conflict?
31:30 K: What is the thing that creates conflict? My desire that says, ‘I must go for a walk, it’s such a lovely day,’ and you come…
31:40 and the kitchen. Conflict is the contradictory demands. Right? The demand to go out for a walk and your demand for my help.
31:55 I’m pulled in two directions. Right? Right? Now what shall I do so that there is only one direction in which there is no conflict?
32:12 You understand, the beauty of this question? Sir, you don’t boil with this.
32:14 Q: The question doesn’t arise at all when you’re…
32:15 K: What do you mean it doesn’t arise at all?
32:20 Q: Well I mean this strong desire.
32:24 K: Look, Tunki. Look, Tunki, you are interested in building an aeroplane or going for a drive in your new car, and I come along and say, ‘For God’s sake, come and help me in the kitchen garden.
32:37 It’ll take an hour, come and help me.’ What will you do?
32:41 Q: I’ll see. I mean, if you ask urgently and I will say, ‘Well, fine,’ and see if it is not relevant at all.
32:57 K: It is urgent! (Laughs) Q: Yes, fine.
33:00 K: Then what will you do?
33:01 Q: No, I will help you.
33:02 K: You will help me. And what happens to your desire to go for a walk, drive in your car? You swallow it?
33:08 Q: It goes away when you see the urgency of helping in the kitchen.
33:16 K: So what takes place? You see the urgency of his demand, and you drop yours.
33:24 Can you drop your desire, which is very strong, to go out for a walk, and comply to his demand totally?
33:36 You understand what I’m talking? Can you? Will you do that?
33:39 Q: When I see the urgency of this demand.
33:43 K: Wait! Tunki, you don’t see the necessity, he’s asking you. (Laughs) Mr Cook says, ‘Come,’ and that’s the end of it.
33:56 Can you drop your urgency to go for a walk and accept his demand with grace, with ease, without any conflict?
34:07 Q: If you see the danger of the conflict.
34:10 K: Wait. So, you are saying if you see the danger of conflict. Right? Do you see the danger of conflict? That it is poisonous, that it is a wastage of energy, that it doesn’t lead anywhere?
34:27 So can you drop your desire for a walk and just walk into the kitchen – equally happy – you follow?
34:36 – equally at ease, and forget your walk altogether. Because if you don’t forget your walk it’s going to keep on and nagging at you, won’t it?
34:55 Q: Sir, isn’t it if you see that the action that ‘I want to take a walk’, if you see that is a self-centred action, by seeing that won’t that make it so that there isn’t conflict in wanting to walk, and you will be able to work in the kitchen?
35:10 K: My dear chap, how will you act in this position? Don’t explain. What will you do now? Haven’t you ever been in this position?
35:22 Q: Often.
35:24 K: Dozens of times, haven’t you?
35:27 Q: Surely everything is making these demands on us all the time, silently, verbally and non-verbally. The classes, the order of the functioning, the relationship, everything.
35:36 K: Everything is based on this.
35:38 Q: Yes.
35:39 K: So, what will you… That’s what I’m getting at.
35:49 I want to stay in bed and I have to be punctual for breakfast.
35:56 What shall I do? Come on! (Laughs) Don’t you then, do go into the kitchen with a grudge?
36:24 Don’t you? Wait, sir, wait, sir, of course you go to the kitchen with a grudge.
36:39 So I am asking: can you do something contrary to your desire, and yet be in a state in which conflict doesn’t exist?
36:57 You understand, sir? This is life, this is what happens all the time.
37:07 My wife wants me to do something and I want to do something else, and then she begins to nag me, and I resist her, so we – you follow?
37:25 Q: On the other hand, if you always yield to what the other says...
37:28 K: I’m not yielding. I’m not yielding. If I’m always yielding I become a doormat. (Laughs) So can I find out how to act in a contradictory… when there are contradictory demands?
37:57 In that action there is no friction, there is no grudge, there is no resistance, no antagonism.
38:07 You have understood my question? Can you do this?
38:11 Q: It depends how strong the desire is.
38:17 K: Ah! However strong. Mine is intense. I want to go out for a walk. I’m boiling, I’ve been looking forward to it, that’s why I dressed very quickly, shaved very quickly, bathed very quickly, and I say, ‘What a marvellous day,’ and I just go out, and you come along.
38:35 Q: Something new. Something new comes along.
38:40 K: Anything, sir, anything – kitchen or somebody falls ill, somebody says, ‘Come with me’ – a dozen things.
38:47 Q: But the kitchen is a new idea just confronting yourself.
38:54 K: No, the kitchen or take something else. Tunki asks me to come and help him with his aeroplane.
38:59 Q: Which is something new again.
39:01 K: No, they are all the same thing, isn’t it? Kitchen, my wife telling me, ‘Come and help me to look after the baby,’ or Tunki says, ‘Come and help me with the aeroplane,’ and somebody says, ‘Take my class’ – it doesn’t matter what it is.
39:23 Which means what, sir? You understand my question? Two contradictory demands.
39:43 Can I act so that that action doesn’t bring any friction in myself?
39:58 You’ve understood?
40:13 Can I drop my desire for a walk so easily, I walk into the kitchen with the same élan – you follow? – with the same freedom?
40:25 Q: I think in that case you can, but what if you really have to do something which is more important?
40:41 K: Then I say, ‘My dear chap, I am sorry I can’t come because this is much more important.’ It’s finished.
40:46 Q: But, sir, I compare the two demands, somebody asks me to...
40:54 K: No, this is not comparison.
40:58 Q: I mean, I have to do something and somebody else asks me to do something else. I have to compare those two things.
41:05 K: No. No, this is not comparison. You come and ask me to help you and I want to go out for a walk. I don’t compare. I want to go for a walk and you ask me to come and help you. There is no comparison in the two.
41:23 Q: I see comparison because... (inaudible) K: Wait, sir. No, that comes when I say, ‘My God, which is more important in this?’ That has been asked.
41:38 Which is more important, my walk or going into the kitchen? Then I say, ‘Well, more important is the kitchen.’ Right?
41:44 Q: Yes.
41:46 K: What has taken place?
41:50 Q: I compared.
41:52 K: Yes, sir. What has taken place in that, when I say this is much more important than my beastly walk, or my pleasant walk – what has taken place?
42:06 I am evaluating, which is better, which is more worthwhile, which is more important.
42:15 What happens then? Then I may consider something more important at another time than it really is.
42:29 Therefore I am evaluating and basing my action on what is important.
42:38 And I don’t want to base my action on what is important.
42:41 Q: But isn’t it relevant? If, say, there is a crisis and the house catches fire... (inaudible) K: There is no question, if the house catches on fire, the walk has gone, finished.
42:56 Q: On a very smaller scale, you evaluate what is at the moment necessary?
43:01 K: No, I don’t want to base my action on discrimination, on what is important.
43:13 Q: Why?
43:14 K: I’ll show you why. When I say what is important, who is… Do you want to go into all this? Many: Yes.
43:26 K: Who is judging in this?
43:31 Q: The self.
43:33 K: Who is the judge who says this is important and that’s not important?
43:40 Who is the judge?
43:44 Q: Myself.
43:46 K: Myself, isn’t it?
43:50 Q: No, it is the circumstances which make you see it.
43:54 K: No. You may see – please, Tunki, just listen to it – you may consider that is important and I might consider that it’s not important.
44:04 Right? And I say that’s not important. Therefore there’s friction between us. Right? So I don’t want to base my action on what is important. I will show you…
44:20 Q: But isn’t there an objective, not subjective, what is important to me, but objective factually?
44:29 K: Factually? Factually, that is fact, not based on importance. Right? Fact. The fact is he asks me to come into the kitchen, and the fact is I want to go out for a walk.
44:46 Q: You still have to evaluate the facts.
44:53 K: Ah, no! I’m not going to evaluate. This is very important, please let’s go slowly. To you, the idea of evaluation is wrong. You all think evaluation is wrong. I don’t know why.
45:08 Q: Because what evaluates?
45:10 K: But, wait a minute, sir, I’m going to go into this with you. Go into it slowly, carefully, it’s quite interesting. Right? Now, if I base my action on discrimination, discriminating what is important, what is not important, my discrimination may be the outcome of my prejudice, of my conditioning.
45:43 Right? So I say discrimination is a very measly affair, because it’s based on my conditioning, my prejudice, my opinion, my tendency.
45:57 So I say I won’t base my action on discrimination.
46:04 Right? Right? I won’t base my action on evaluation. Right?
46:11 Q: Evaluation of what I think. But isn’t there still evaluation that is not coloured by what I think?
46:19 K: There is. I want to be first clear. I’m clearing the ground. I will not discriminate, evaluate, because if I evaluate it might be based on my prejudice, my tendency, my wish, my imagination.
46:44 Right? So I won’t base my action on my evaluation. Therefore I won’t act on what is important and what is not important.
46:59 Wait, wait, go slow, I’m going to go into this. Right? Are you meeting with me, all this? Because this is a dangerous thing we are entering into. Unless you understand very clearly you must stop me. Right? Because you’ll then pick up a few words and say, ‘This is not important,’ and throw it at Mrs Simmons’ head.
47:28 So, I’ve realised that if I evaluate it might be based on prejudice.
47:40 But evaluation is necessary.
47:48 Right? When the teacher makes a report of you and says you are not good at French, or very good at mathematics, that’s evaluation, based on facts, not on your prejudice.
48:07 Right? See the difference? Do you see the difference? You’re a little bit suspicious. It comes very close.
48:17 Q: It’s very difficult because you think you’re objective.
48:21 K: Wait, wait, wait. I’m teaching you – what? – Italian. I know much more Italian than you do – obviously, otherwise I wouldn’t be teaching you.
48:36 And I see that you’re not very good at Italian – factually, it’s not my prejudice – after six months you don’t know how to put a sentence together.
48:47 That’s a fact. On that fact I evaluate, not on my prejudice.
48:57 Right? Do you agree?
49:01 Q: Yes.
49:03 K: So, don’t tell me afterwards, ‘Oh, you’re evaluating.’ I’m evaluating where Italian is concerned, on the fact that you cannot after six months put a few sentences together.
49:21 That’s a fact. Right? Have you got that? That is entirely different from the evaluation which I have about what is important. Have you got that?
49:37 Q: Is it evaluation whether you want tea or coffee?
49:45 K: Don’t reduce it to tea and coffee, for God’s sake – or long hair, short hair. Just look at it first. Have I explained myself? Right? So there are two factors in evaluation – prejudice and fact.
50:12 When I evaluate what is important and what is not important, it may be based on my prejudice and not be based on fact.
50:31 And when he asks me to go into the kitchen, is it a fact or does he just wants to annoy me?
50:39 So I go in there and see what it is. If it’s needed I do it. And forget about it, because it’s not my prejudice, it is the fact that demands my action.
50:52 You see the difference? Have you seen the difference? For God’s sake.
50:58 Q: I understand in this case.
51:01 K: Wait, wait, wait. Understand this case and therefore understand the general principle of it.
51:11 Phew! If I evaluate what is important or not important, it is based perhaps on my prejudice, therefore I distrust my judgment in evaluation.
51:30 Right? But when facts demand evaluation, facts decide the value.
51:41 Right? The two are very clear, aren’t they? No? Oh lord! Aren’t they very clear?
51:46 Q: It’s very clear when on one side you have your desires and on the other side you’re needed, but if on both sides you are needed and you have to chose either one or the other...
52:13 K: No, I won’t chose.
52:16 Q: You have to act either one or the other, you cannot do both.
52:19 K: No. When you have to act, this or that, that means choice and that means you don’t know what to do and you chose this which is more pleasurable.
52:25 Q: Sir? I understand how a conditioned being… it’s extremely difficult for a conditioned person to see truth without bias, but that’s not the point that’s bothering me, what’s bothering me is: how is a state, or whatever, to come about so one is not working?
52:45 K: I’m showing it to you, sir. I’m showing it to you. Look, begin again. I want to go out for a walk and you come and ask me to go into the kitchen.
52:59 If I say, what is more important, kitchen or my walk, I evaluate according to my pleasure then, won’t I, according to my wish, according to my prejudice, pleasure, which is to go out for a walk.
53:20 Therefore I say to myself, I won’t evaluate. The facts will produce the right action. You follow? The fact. So I go with him into the kitchen. Though I want to go out for a walk, I go into the kitchen and see if the fact demands it. You’ve got it? The fact says yes – then I forget the rest. You get what I’m talking?
53:49 Q: Yes, but if you’re needed in the kitchen but at the same time you’re needed in the office also.
53:56 K: Ah, that’s a difference matter. I can’t. Then I say: look, which is the fact? The fact of my needing in the office or in the kitchen? I went par. I am not then basing judgment on my prejudice but what the facts demand.
54:14 Q: Yes, but you have the two facts, then.
54:16 K: Ah, no. I go into the office. I go into the office and say, ‘Look, do you really want me to help you in the office or in the kitchen?’ What is the fact?
54:29 The fact will tell me what to do. Then I realise, when the fact tells me what to do there is no friction.
54:42 You get what I am talking about? Oh, if you see the beauty of it, sirs. Come on. You’re too young.
55:01 So the facts are the final factor of decision, of action, not my prejudice.
55:10 Q: If both are of equally…
55:15 K: Ah. My prejudice and the fact are two different things. My desire, my pleasure, my wish, my longing, my tendency, are entirely different from the fact of the kitchen.
55:36 You see? You don’t see it. That makes your mind so clear. You understand? Then there is no choice. No choice between the kitchen and your walk. The fact has decided that you go to the kitchen, and that is the end of it.
56:01 You know that demands a great deal of intelligence. A man who says, ‘Well, I want to go for a walk, therefore I’m going, who are you to call me into the kitchen?
56:12 You’re authoritarian, you’re this, you’re that, you’re a bully’ – is such a waste of time and energy.
56:22 In fact saying, ‘You’re authoritarian,’ much better to say, ‘Look, you go away please, I’m really going for a walk. Ask somebody else to help you in the kitchen.’ That would be much simpler, wouldn’t it? But we are frightened to say that. Right? Is this clear? Now, you know, I’ve described all this, but the words are not the fact.
56:54 Q: Can I examine it from a different way? I would like to examine it from a different way.
57:05 K: Go ahead.
57:08 Q: Now, take, I’ve been working on studies for six or seven hours…
57:20 K: Yes. Yes, go on.
57:22 Q: And then I feel the need to have a little break and have a walk.
57:30 K: Yes.
57:31 Q: And some people say…
57:34 K: …’Come into the kitchen.’ Q: Yes – ‘Come into the kitchen and help me.’ K: Yes. What will you do? This is your statement: you are occupied with something – right? – and you have spent some hours or minutes, whatever it is, and you need a break.
57:53 And in that break time, somebody comes and says, ‘Do come and do something else.’ Right?
58:00 What will you do? You need a break, because your job is to go back to that work and do it – right? – and you need certain time, relaxation, whatever it is.
58:18 So what will you do? (Laughs) Q: It’s a fact that you took the break to have a rest.
58:30 K: Yes. So what will you do?
58:32 Q: You see the fact.
58:33 Q: You watch.
58:34 K: Wait, wait, watch it carefully, watch it carefully, don’t decide, don’t decide, look at it! Don’t jump from the frying pan into the fire, just look at it.
58:44 I am doing something, it has taking me all the morning, and I need a break.
58:51 And while I’m… I need some time to myself, to go out. As I’m going out, you ask me to do something else. What shall I do? Why do you hesitate about all this? (Laughs) Q: Even if I go into the kitchen, I won’t pay full attention.
59:12 K: I know that, therefore I’m telling you…
59:14 Q: So why should I?
59:16 K: So you say: what is the fact? Stick to facts.
59:20 Q: The fact is I’m tired.
59:22 K: You’re tired. That’s good enough. ‘Sorry, I’m tired, I can’t come into the kitchen.’ Right?
59:31 That’s all. But be honest – you follow? – don’t only pretend to be tired.
59:48 So, come back. There is physical energy – and we have plenty of it because we have good food, rest, all the rest of it – then there is the whole psychological energy which is dissipated in conflict.
1:00:15 Right? Are you following this? And I say to myself: that’s a waste of energy. Though in psychological conflict tension is created and out of that tension grows a certain kind of energy.
1:00:38 And if I have the capacity as a writer, as a speaker or as a painter or as a gardener, I use that capacity – which would be a wastage of my psychological energy.
1:00:53 So, can I act psychologically without wastage of energy, based on facts only and nothing else?
1:01:06 You understand what I am saying?
1:01:13 Have you got it?
1:01:20 Only facts and not psychological, emotional, prejudice and say, ‘Oh, I must, I must not’ – only that.
1:01:28 Then you have harmony between the psyche and the physical.
1:01:36 Right? Then you have a harmonious way of living. From there you can find out if there is another kind of energy, of a totally different kind.
1:01:55 But without having the harmony between the psyche and the physical, psychosomatic harmony, then your inquiry into the other has no meaning.
1:02:14 Right? Now, you have listened to this. What are you going to do with your life now? What are you going to do this morning or this afternoon when this problem arises? It is going to arise. Every day of your life it’s going to arise. Come into the kitchen, go out for a walk; build an aeroplane or come for a drive with me; school, class, and no class; stay in bed or must I get up so early?
1:02:52 You follow? So what will you do? What you will do depends on how you have listened to what has been said.
1:03:06 If you have really listened you will from now on just act on facts only. That’s a marvellous thing. You don’t know the beauty of it. Just on facts, instead of bringing all your emotional circus into it.
1:03:40 (Pause) Did you find any difference after Sunday’s talk about laziness?
1:04:04 Do you remember, we said don’t use the word lazy, but find out why you want to stay in bed longer.
1:04:19 Have you gone into it? And also, have you gone into the other question, which was: we are hurt, from childhood we are hurt – by our mothers, by our fathers, by our neighbours, by our friends, by another – you follow?
1:04:43 – people hurt us. They say, ‘Oh, you are not as clever as your brother,’ or ‘You’re crooked’ – hurt us.
1:04:54 Now can you be not hurt any more? Which doesn’t mean resist, which doesn’t mean build a wall round yourself, but which means not to have an image about yourself.
1:05:12 Right? Have you an image about yourself?
1:05:23 You know, I’ll tell you something.
1:05:31 It’s personal but it doesn’t matter.
1:05:39 I was born in India and I was adopted by people and made the head of a tremendous organisation.
1:05:53 As a boy – you understand? – about your age, 15, 14, less than that.
1:06:01 And they said I was a great teacher; I was going to be. So people began to worship the person – you understand? – put candles round him, garlands, prostrations – you’ve no idea – anything.
1:06:15 So, I could have… the boy could have built an image about himself, couldn’t he?
1:06:22 You understand what I am saying?
1:06:30 And if that image was attacked he’d be hurt, wouldn’t he?
1:06:38 Are you following all this? So, he never had an image. Never. They said he was a great teacher, he was a messiah, he was… etc. – you’ve no idea what it was all like.
1:06:56 Tremendous!
1:06:57 Q: What’s the secret, that this boy doesn’t have an image, and other boys maybe have an image?
1:07:04 K: Look at the sky. What is the secret? He didn’t have it. There is no secret. He saw… You know? He didn’t have it.
1:07:15 Q: While another boy might have the image.
1:07:16 K: Why do you have it? Because you don’t… you’re too much involved in images and other people.
1:07:30 He was vague, he was slightly vacant, he was looking at the blue sky most of the time, and the trees and the birds.
1:07:37 (Laughter) He was by himself a great deal. Don’t ask why – that’s not the reason. Just see what happens. I brought that in because you can live without an image. The image is not the fact. You follow? The fact is a state of mind in which there is no image.
1:08:09 So if you can look at it all, not be so terribly attached to your wish – I must have long hair, short hair, I must – you know? – all the stupid stuff that one goes through.
1:08:30 We’re always talking about long hair and short hair, aren’t we, here? What a waste of time. You know what it is to be pliable?
1:08:49 Have you ever watched a river? You have? How it goes over a rock, how it moves? It moves – never caught in a corner, in a little pool – moving, moving, moving.
1:09:19 And if you don’t, at this age, keep on moving – you follow? – you’re going to be caught in a small, little pool of your own making.
1:09:28 And that is not the river, that’s dirty water.
1:09:37 Image isn’t merely a picture about yourself.
1:09:45 A conclusion is an image. You understand, a conclusion? A conclusion, that I am something, I must be something – that’s a conclusion.
1:10:04 You know, there is a school to which I go to in North India, just like this but it’s got three hundred acres and a marvellous river.
1:10:16 Have you heard of the Ganges, Ganga? It’s on the border – you see the river going by.
1:10:25 It is really a most extraordinary river. It comes passing the big city called Benares, comes down.
1:10:37 I used to take a lot of walks. You see people washing their clothes, bodies being burnt and thrown into the river.
1:10:48 You understand all this? People bathing, doing their laundry, and another man here drinking the water.
1:10:59 You follow? All this is taking place within a few yards.
1:11:09 (Laughs) And that river is always alive. Because it’s alive, its water is not contaminated, is not polluted.
1:11:25 Several doctors some years ago took that water to Switzerland – they were Swiss doctors – to cure stomach troubles.
1:11:39 (Laughs) I was rowing once on that river and as I put my hand down to see how cold the water was, an arm was floating by.
1:11:55 (Laughs) Because you see what they do?
1:12:02 It’s the tradition there in India, especially round Benares, that your body must be burnt on the river’s bank.
1:12:16 In India they cremate their bodies. You understand? They don’t bury them, they cremate them – much simpler and it occupies less space.
1:12:30 So, the poor people bring their dead relatives, come to the river’s bank, buy wood, and with a little wood they burn the body.
1:12:45 And they haven’t the time to wait there all the time till the body is consumed – they have to rush back to their village.
1:12:52 So the man who sells the wood puts the fire out, preserves the wood, throws the body in the river, and the next person comes along and he sells that wood.
1:13:08 (Laughter) And you meet that body several miles below. (Laughs) Q: Sir, I believe the water’s been analysed and they found some extraordinary things.
1:13:28 K: Extraordinary things in it, I know. The sacred river. That’s why it’s called sacred.
1:13:45 Well, is that enough? What’s the time, sir?
1:13:48 Q: Twenty past twelve.
1:13:49 K: Twenty past twelve. That’s enough, isn’t it?
1:13:51 Q: Sir, we’ve been discussing the morning meeting in our school meeting last night, and there is some lack of clarity about it.
1:14:07 K: With regard to what, sir?
1:14:12 Q: The morning meeting.
1:14:13 K: This meeting?
1:14:14 Q: No, the one we have at eight o’clock.
1:14:16 Q: The meeting before breakfast.
1:14:18 K: What about it? Wait, wait. Why do you meet?
1:14:21 Q: To be together.
1:14:22 K: Be together. What for? You’re together all day.
1:14:27 Q: It’s been organised to do. It’s been arranged that we do that at eight o’clock.
1:14:31 K: Why has it been arranged? Think it out, sir.
1:14:35 Q: That’s the thing – why?
1:14:38 K: Why?
1:14:39 Q: Why is it?
1:14:41 K: No, wait a minute, sir, just listen. The school I go to in Benares, in the north, they also meet every morning. At Rishi Valley they also meet every morning. And here you meet every morning. What for? You’re against it, are you?
1:15:02 Q: No.
1:15:04 K: Be simple. You’re against it? No. Or somebody – are you? (Student’s name) – are you against it?
1:15:14 Q: No, not against it. I sort of don’t feel like…
1:15:20 K: …going.
1:15:21 Q: …the pressure on people to go.
1:15:25 K: Wait, wait. You don’t like pressure being put on people. I’m putting pressure on you now, by asking you what you think about it.
1:15:38 You can tell me to go to hell, but people are putting pressure on you all the time.
1:15:45 Everybody is, on somebody else. Don’t say you don’t like it. Your father is putting pressure on you, society is putting pressure on you, the books are putting pressure on you – you follow? – the television, everything is putting pressure.
1:16:04 You mean, when you say that, ‘I like to choose my pressures,’ (laughter) the ones that are pleasurable.
1:16:15 That’s all. So I’m asking you: do you like to meet in the morning? To come to a school is a pressure. So, come on, sir, what do you say? You don’t like it? You people! Come on, sir, be straight about these matters.
1:16:41 Q: Sometimes I like it.
1:16:42 K: Now, why do you meet at all? I’m asking you.
1:16:46 Q: So we give ourselves some good ideas and listen to everyone.
1:16:50 K: That’s right. That is, you want to listen to people – right? – to the other. Is that the reason that you meet?
1:16:57 Q: The reason could be different for different people.
1:17:02 K: Wait. Why do you all meet?
1:17:05 Q: To be quiet.
1:17:08 K: To be quiet?
1:17:11 Q: To be together.
1:17:12 K: (Laughs) To be together, to be quiet, to listen. You’ve said three things: to listen to what others are saying, to be quiet, to be together.
1:17:24 Is that the reason you meet? Now, wait a minute.
1:17:35 Why do you meet me here?
1:17:37 Q: To make up an audience. (Laughter) K: Why are you all sitting there? What is that, sir? I didn’t hear. Qu’est ce qu’il dit?’ Q: The audience.
1:17:53 Q: You’re the speaker, so we’re the audience. We construct an audience to listen.
1:17:58 K: Oh! What is that? I am the speaker and you are the audience? Is that the reason you meet?
1:18:02 Q: No.
1:18:03 K: Because you are the audience?
1:18:04 Q: That’s why we’re here.
1:18:05 K: I’m asking you: why do you meet here?
1:18:06 Q: It’s actually to discuss things together.
1:18:09 K: You like to discuss with me, and that’s why you meet? Many: Yes.
1:18:15 K: Right?
1:18:16 Q: Yes.
1:18:17 K: Now wait a minute, why do you meet in the mornings?
1:18:27 Is that a bore?
1:18:30 Q: No.
1:18:33 K: Would you go there if I came there every morning to discuss with you?
1:18:37 Q: Yes.
1:18:38 K: You would?
1:18:39 Q: Yes.
1:18:43 K: But I might be bored with it. (Laughter) No, I’m asking: why do you want to meet in the mornings?
1:18:57 Sir, I know why I want to meet in the mornings if I was here.
1:19:08 But first you tell me why, and I’ll tell you why afterwards. (Laughs) Q: It’s because during the day you don’t pay attention to all the noises around us.
1:19:17 K: Therefore you’re saying, we want to be quiet in the morning, to gather ourselves, to pay attention, to be quiet, to listen to people.
1:19:34 Be together, to listen, to find out, to feel in a sense of communal action together.
1:19:42 Right? Is that why you come? Come on, sirs. Go on, Mantely.
1:19:51 Q: Mostly by habit.
1:19:57 K: You go by habit? You’re coming here by habit?
1:20:03 Q: No, no, I don’t come here by habit.
1:20:10 K: Then why do you go there by habit? Do you go by habit to your class? Do you go by habit to play football or whatever it is?
1:20:20 Q: No.
1:20:21 K: Then why do you say by habit? Because the whole school trots in there, so you trot with them in?
1:20:30 So let’s find out.
1:20:41 What is the point of being together in the mornings? Isn’t it important in the morning to be together, sit quietly, to listen to the birds, to listen to a person who is reading a poem.
1:21:09 Do you read a poem? Oh, by the way, do you write poetry? Many: Yes.
1:21:17 K: Yes? I’m so glad. Good. Is it good poetry? (Laughter) Q: We read you, actually. We read some pieces which you have said.
1:21:32 K: Oh, it doesn’t matter. Don’t bother about reading me – I get shy. (Laughter) Now, do you write poetry, do you write things?
1:21:41 Q: Yes.
1:21:42 Q: Sometimes.
1:21:43 K: Essays to yourself – you know? Now why do you… Now, come back. In the mornings, shouldn’t you meet together in the mornings, be quiet, sit together, listen to what is being read, so that, you know, you collect yourself.
1:22:01 Q: So that everybody acts as one.
1:22:05 K: No. I said not ‘as one’ – gather yourself to be quiet.
1:22:12 Q: Wouldn’t that mean, if you did that, wouldn’t that mean that you were ungathered before you gathered yourself?
1:22:20 K: But you are ungathered before.
1:22:21 Q: But why?
1:22:22 K: Because we happen to be that way. Are you gathered all the time?
1:22:26 Q: No.
1:22:27 K: Sir, when you get up in the morning, what takes place? You rush. You do all your bathing, toilet and all the rest of it – you get: ‘Oh, for God’s sake, I’ve got ten minutes more left,’ and you rush through.
1:22:39 Q: No.
1:22:41 K: No? Ah, but you are different (laughter), because we are Orientals, we get up early, we do things more lazily.
1:22:53 Wait a minute. So you get up early. You get up and rush and you keep rushing all day, don’t you?
1:23:04 No?
1:23:05 Q: Yes.
1:23:06 K: Yes, that’s just it. You rush all day, from class to class, meal, play, keep moving, so that there is no time for self-awareness – right? – for being quiet, to look at yourself, look at the trees, look at the birds, hear its song, never a moment to be quiet.
1:23:37 Right? Shouldn’t you have quiet? Not to be lazy quiet. Quiet means not pick up a paper and look – to be absolutely quiet. Isn’t it necessary? Mantely?
1:23:53 Q: Yes.
1:23:55 K: Then is that quietness habit? (Laughs) Poor chap, he’s caught.
1:24:04 Q: I think no.
1:24:08 K: No. Therefore you’re not aware of your constant agitation during the day.
1:24:18 Therefore when you are aware that you are constantly moving, agitated, talking, you know, all the rest, reading, morning is to be quiet together.
1:24:29 You know what happens if you are that way quiet?
1:24:30 Q: But why together? I mean, you can be quiet on your own too.
1:24:38 K: Oh yes, I’m not saying you can’t be quiet on your own, but when you’re together quiet, then there is… you know, when you are together quiet, it brings about a cooperative action.
1:24:54 You know? I wonder if you understand. Doesn’t it? Haven’t you noticed it?
1:25:06 Then if somebody asked me to go into the kitchen, I will go. There isn’t saying, ‘Oh my God, I want to go out for a walk, I’m going to fight her’ – you know?
1:25:17 Q: Yes, but outside Brockwood we can’t come together every morning in the group and all sit quietly.
1:25:36 K: I didn’t say sit quietly. I said to be together so that we are quiet, when you read something and I will listen, when you say something I will listen out of my quietness, not out of my agitation.
1:25:49 You follow? I listen out of my quietness. Then I will really listen. Then I will learn the art of listening out of quietness.
1:26:06 For that reason I would meet. I went once to a monastery and stayed there a week.
1:26:17 The monastery was run by some friends of mine in California.
1:26:24 I went there. The programme was: you got up at six – what was it? – yes, you got up at six and bathed and all that.
1:26:39 From six-thirty to seven-thirty you sat in a darkened room, really dark, and the man who was in charge read a passage from Brother Lawrence – you know Brother Lawrence, The Cloud of Unknowing? – or some philosophy or some devotional or some story – he read for about two or three minutes.
1:27:09 Then for that whole hour you sat. It was a small amphitheatre. You know what an amphitheatre is? Steps going down, and each person sat on a step with his feet down on the next.
1:27:27 So you sat in that complete darkness for an hour and mediated.
1:27:35 That was demanded of you. Then from seven-thirty to eight you prepared the breakfast altogether, and from eight-thirty or a quarter to nine you washed up all the dishes, and then went to your room to clean up and make the bed and so on.
1:27:52 At ten-thirty somebody gave a talk, about whatever it was – science, philosophy, biology or anthropology, and so on.
1:28:06 From eleven-thirty to twelve-thirty, in that darkened room, meditation for an hour. And then had lunch. Listen to all this. After lunch you never said a word to anybody.
1:28:24 And then from five-thirty you went out for a walk or did something in the garden or went to your room, or whatever, but no talking.
1:28:32 At six-thirty to seven-thirty, meditation in the dark room, and dinner, washing dishes.
1:28:39 And from then on till the next morning you never talked, from after lunch till the next morning after meditation you never talked.
1:28:50 You know, if you did that, that would be forming a habit, wouldn’t it?
1:28:57 Because it was the custom, it was the thing to do. But unfortunately or fortunately that monastery broke up. Now, I would go to a morning meeting, if I were here as a student or a teacher, because I want to sit quietly for a few minutes, or half an hour.
1:29:25 Not only to look and listen to what other people are saying or what is being read, and also to look at myself.
1:29:35 You understand? I want to look at myself. I want to see what kind of animal I am. You understand? What kind of person I am. You understand? Why I do this and why I do that, why I think this, why I want that – I want to know myself.
1:29:58 Because when I know myself then I have great clarity.
1:30:06 You understand? Then I think very clearly, very simply, very directly.
1:30:17 I would do that in the morning meetings – read, listen, and also sit quiet to see what I am.
1:30:29 And see the beauty of what I am, or the ugliness of what I am – just to see, to observe.
1:30:40 And when I come out of that my face is – you follow? – there’s a delight in my eyes because I’ve understood something.
1:30:52 Isn’t that enough? I think that’s enough. Andiamo!