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BR75DSS1.03 - What is the most important thing in life?
Brockwood Park, UK - 11 May 1975
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.03



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s third discussion with teachers and students at Brockwood Park, 1975.
0:12 Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about this morning?
0:24 The last two times that we met here we talked about learning.
0:39 And the other day when we met in the library we talked about authority, all the implications of authority.
0:51 With authority goes power. When that power becomes absolute that is absolute evil, and we went into all that.
1:03 What shall we talk about this morning? Questioner: I’m still not clear what you really mean by learning.
1:12 Do you consider studying as learning?
1:16 K: I thought we went into it fairly sufficiently, didn’t we?
1:22 Q: Yes.
1:24 K: Learning. We said there are two kinds of learning: learning for itself and using learning as a spade to get somewhere.
1:44 Could we this morning and the following talks take one subject and go through with it completely?
2:03 Shall we? So what do you think would be the most important thing in life to learn about?
2:16 Not only learning, but also we discussed authority—we’ll go into it further in detail—but what do you think is the most vitally important thing in life?
2:32 And learn about it. Not say, ‘It is this,’ or ‘It is that,’ ‘It must be that,’ or ’It must not be that,’ but learn about it.
2:41 What do you think is the most important thing?
2:44 Q: Meditation.
2:48 K: Do you think that’s the most important?
2:54 Q: No.
2:55 K: No—you turn up your nose at it or curl your lips about it.
3:04 So what do you think is the most important thing?
3:07 Q: To live in right relationship with the world?
3:15 Q: I think your question is the most important thing.
3:22 K: Question.
3:23 Q: Yes, what is important?
3:27 K: What is important? You decide. Take time, be patient, think it over; let’s find out.
3:45 Q: I have one question, I’m not sure how broad it goes, but—what is instinct?
3:54 K: No, no, no, wait a minute, old boy, wait. What do you... No, you’re not answering my question. What do you think is the most important thing in life? Which will help, you know, to live fully, richly, happily, all the rest of it.
4:15 What do you think is the most important thing?
4:21 Q: To learn about oneself. To know how...
4:28 K: To learn about yourself—do you think that’s the most important? Come on, sirs, it’s your...
4:39 Go on, put some ginger into this. (Laughs) Q: To see that we are influenced and to see what influence is.
4:51 K: Didn’t we talk about it the other day, how we are influenced, what is influence? Do you think that’s the most important thing in life?
5:04 It may be, but I am questioning it, I am asking, I want to find out.
5:13 Q: It seems as though there is no one most important thing.
5:22 K: I’m not sure, I’m going to find out. You say there is not one single thing which is totally important, which will cover the whole field of existence.
5:35 Q: Well, probably...
5:37 K: You have listened to my question?
5:41 Q: I would say that learning about the whole field of existence.
5:46 K: Learning about the whole field of existence is the most important thing—that is what Shakuntala suggests.
5:54 That is your name, isn’t it? Yes, right, got it right first time!
6:00 Q: But there are certain requirements in order to do that.
6:07 K: No, no.
6:09 Q: I mean, like freedom to be able to do that.
6:12 K: No, my dear chap, we’re not... We are asking what it is that is most important, not what are the qualities, requirement, capacities to learn about the whole problem of existence.
6:29 What do you think is the most important thing in life to learn?
6:36 It’s a very difficult question this.
6:41 Q: Why we remain dull, why we remain unable to go beyond what we are.
7:09 Q: To be able to perceive seems to me very important.
7:29 (Pause) K: What do you say?
7:36 All right, let us eliminate one by one and perhaps you’ll get at it.
7:44 Do you think acquiring a job is the most important thing in life? A job, a profession, a career, something that will occupy the whole of your life, which will give you bread, butter and shelter—do you think that is the most important thing?
8:09 Q: No.
8:12 K: No, be quite sure—because don’t casually say yes or no, but be clear about it.
8:21 Q: The aspects of how you approach that job, what you bring to your job.
8:32 K: No, I am asking, do you think having a profession, a career—a lawyer, doctor, engineer—and working for that, do you think that is the most important thing in life?
8:47 Q: Not as... (inaudible) K: I said one by one we’ll take, and eliminate if it is not, and gradually find out for ourselves what is the most important.
9:02 Q: Yes, but what I’m trying to say is that there are aspects of how you will approach this job: your relationship with the people at the job, what you bring to the job, respect.
9:13 K: No, that is a secondary issue, isn’t it? If I am... if all my capacity, if all my thoughts are bent towards acquiring a job, a profession, a career, then I adjust myself in my relationship and so on.
9:34 But is that the most important thing, career?
9:38 Q: Obviously not. I mean...
9:43 K: I don’t know. I’m asking you, sir. I’m asking you.
9:46 Q: Life is more than that.
9:47 K: You’re all going to face it. Come on, find out.
9:57 Why do you say it is not important? It is important but it’s not the absolute, you know, the real importance. Why do you say it’s not?
10:20 Probably your instinct, your feeling tells you it’s not. Let’s for the moment put it aside. Then if that is not important then is relationship important?
10:39 Relationship with your neighbour, with your friend, with your husband, wife, boy or a girl, with the world, with nature.
11:00 Relationship. Do you think that is the most important thing?
11:09 And we mean by that word ‘relationship’, to be related, to be in contact with, to have tremendous concern for another, to care for another as you would care for yourself, learn about yourself.
11:37 And would relationship in this sense of great affection, care, attention, love, of compassion, do you think that is the most important thing?
11:52 (Pause) Oh, come on (laughs).
12:03 Do you want a bomb put under you before you will speak?
12:16 Q: There is something behind that relationship.
12:21 K: No, Tungki, don’t expand it. We’ll go into it. If you consider that is the most important thing then we can go into it fully.
12:34 Q: I consider the thing which enables that to happen is more important than that.
12:44 K: No, no, if you think that is important then you have the capacity, then you have the energy, then you have the drive to have good relationship.
12:52 Q: Yes, but having good relationship implies that one understands oneself. It implies a lot of things, not just the relationship in itself.
13:09 K: You understand, relationship we mean be in contact with nature.
13:16 You know what it means to be in contact with nature? To look at the beauty of a tree, birds, to understand them, to feel for them, not to hurt anything, not to kill animals, not to kill animals in order to eat their meat, and so on.
13:37 Care. And not to hurt people. We’ll go into all that. If you think relationship with another, however close, however far, whatever nationality, whatever creed, and so on, so on, if you think relationship is really the basic importance, the basic structure of life, then we can go into it in detail, fully.
14:11 But if you think that is not so important as something else, then what is the other thing?
14:19 Would you say... I’m trying to... I’m not laying down—you understand?—I’m not saying this is so, this is not so. Would you say thinking is the most important thing in life?
14:37 Come on, Mr Button, you’re going to face this.
14:52 You’re going to leave this term, aren’t you? Yes. You’re going to face all the music. So what do you think is the most important? Is thinking important?
15:04 Q: To learn how to watch.
15:11 K: How to box?
15:13 Q: Watch.
15:14 K: Watch. (Laughs) That may be another thing too—learn how to box!
15:17 Q: No, I...
15:18 K: I know that. (Laughs) That may be the real thing! (Laughs) Do you think thinking is important, the most important thing?
15:38 (Pause) Why do you say no?
15:52 (Pause) We said career… and I put that forward.
16:02 You said, no, that’s not quite it, that’s not the whole thing.
16:11 Then relationship. You’re rather uncertain about it. Then is thinking important? Because everything in life is based on that: your career, your relationship, the way you act, the way you behave, the way you look at life—everything is in that structure which is called thought.
16:48 (Pause) Go on, sir.
16:51 Q: It seems that understanding of thought is much more important than thought itself.
17:03 K: So you think thought is important?
17:05 Q: Understanding it.
17:08 K: Of course. Please, you see, if it is the most important thing we can go into it, we can learn about it, we can find out its place, its structure, its nature, and why we—and so on.
17:24 If that is not totally important, would you consider love all-important?
17:36 Love being not only sex but being kind, being generous, being compassionate, affectionate, kind, feeling for others—all that’s implied—no killing at all; but killing the least little thing, which is quite a different matter.
18:11 (Pause) Q: Is that part of relationship?
18:24 K: I don’t know, I’m asking.
18:31 You see we... Please, bear this in mind: what is the most important thing in life, you want to find out.
18:42 We said, is it career, profession, learning of a technique that will give you a job and therefore money, shelter, food, clothes?
18:57 Is that the most important thing in life? Right? Or relationship, with the world, with nature, with people, you know, the feeling of being related to the whole existence, the whole of life, not only your own little life but the life of millions of people, the world.
19:33 Then if that is not the most important thing in life, which you have to face when you leave this place or when you are studying and learning, or is it thinking?
19:47 Q: We should give a little attention to happiness too.
19:56 K: In that is… happiness, love and all that is involved in it.
19:58 Q: It seems by exploring one thing, relationship, perhaps all the other things will come in.
20:06 K: Maybe. That’s what I want to ask you. What do you think is the most important thing to learn about life, from which everything flows?
20:21 Q: Being in harmony.
20:25 Q: It seems that love embraces all the others that you mentioned before.
20:29 K: I don’t know. I’m asking you. It’s your job. You’ve got to face them.
20:33 Q: Well, is relationship in love? If there’s love then you’d have food and clothes and shelter.
20:36 K: I don’t know. First decide amongst yourselves what you think is the most essential thing to learn.
20:51 And I said we will eliminate this, this, that. And you may say, ‘Well, love is the most important thing.’ I don’t know what you say.
21:01 Q: Well, to have love or relationship you need to think.
21:06 K: Yes, my lady, but I want to know if you think that is the most important thing. You’re all dodging the question. If you think it is the most important thing, you have to learn about it, haven’t you?
21:21 You can’t say, ‘I know love. I love.’ And that love is destroyed when you begin to be ambitious, greedy, or when you hate somebody; it’s finished.
21:38 So you have to learn about it as you learn about mathematics.
21:45 And we went into the question of what it means to learn: learn either acquiring knowledge, which can be used for a career, which may also be necessary, which is necessary, and also learning for itself, the beauty of learning.
22:17 Not to be used to become somebody, to make yourself more beautiful or God knows what else.
22:28 Come on, sirs.
22:30 Q: I think relationship is the most important thing.
22:38 K: Relationship.
22:40 Q: Freedom and harmony and love.
22:45 K: My darling, sir, the moment you say ‘love’ then we can go into it.
22:54 Then what does love mean? Can there be love if there is hatred, if there is pettiness, if the mind is bourgeois, if the mind is mediocre, if the mind is merely seeking pleasure?
23:11 You can go into it, but you must decide, you must think out what you think is the most essential thing in life, which will cover all the field of existence.
23:32 Q: I think thinking.
23:40 It seems like if you have the skill to just see clearly and have an alert mind, you’d be able to go into everything separately.
23:45 K: So you think thinking is most important.
23:48 Q: Being alert.
23:50 K: Being alert, not sleepy, not drugged.
23:59 Which means what? Having a very good body, because if you have a rotten... if you have an unhealthy body it affects thinking, the mind.
24:11 So you must have very good body, good diet, exercise, care of the body.
24:20 So, find out what you think is the most essential thing in life—I repeat this over.
24:32 Q: Is there a most important thing?
24:35 K: Is there a more important thing?
24:37 Q: And it will be for all of us.
24:39 K: I think if we find if it is true it covers everybody.
24:54 There is no you different from somebody else. If this is the real true thing that you want to learn about then everything is involved in it, everybody is included in it.
25:10 You understand the difference between reality and truth, do you?
25:20 No? May we go into it a little bit?
25:32 Reality is something that you think about and that which thought has created.
25:42 Is that all right, sir? Dr Bohm?
25:46 Q: No. Well, in a way, yes.
25:50 K: In a way. I’m just... (laughs) You’re all... I’m exploring it, for God’s sake.
26:01 Truth is something that you cannot think about. With all the complications involved in each.
26:18 That which thought can think about or thought has created.
26:26 The chair is real, it is created by thought.
26:33 God is created by thought. All the churches, all the temples, all the mosques are created by thought, and real—they are there—but it’s not truth.
26:50 It is a reality that there is an Englishman, there is an American, there is England, there is Russia, created by thought, divided into nationalities—that’s a reality.
27:13 But that reality has nothing whatever to do with truth. Right, sir? I am glad you agree. (Laughs) Q: But does thought create you and me? Does thought create the wood from which the chair is made?
27:29 K: I beg your pardon? (He is part of Brockwood therefore he can ask questions.) Go ahead, sir.
27:42 Q: You said thought creates a chair, but does thought create the wood from which the chair is made?
27:51 K: Of course not. The concept of a chair is the reality.
27:53 Q: But isn’t wood also a reality?
27:56 K: But that thought cuts the tree, you know, lumber and so on, makes a chair.
28:03 Q: But is not the wood the chair’s made from reality?
28:09 K: Yes, of course, but it is not created by thought. The tree is not created by thought. I can say it is a pine or a cypress or a tulip tree, and so on.
28:29 Q: I thought you said reality was created by thought.
28:32 K: Sir, you... I said thought, what thought thinks about or what thought creates is reality.
28:49 Which reality has no relationship with truth. I can deceive myself and say, ‘That’s real,’ but it’s nothing to do with truth.
28:59 Q: But the wood is reality, the chair is reality, but the wood is not created by thought.
29:03 K: Of course not. I said that.
29:05 Q: So that’s maybe the confusion.
29:06 K: I made it clear, madame. That’s good enough for the time being. Don’t involve too much in this.
29:17 Q: I’m not sure, I think it may be...
29:22 K: No, I want to go back to this question, what you think is the most important thing, so that in the understanding of that, in the learning about it, you cover the whole field of existence.
29:49 You see, if you are merely seeking a career, that doesn’t cover the whole field of life, does it?
29:57 Does it? So we can eliminate that for the time being.
30:06 If you say relationship is the most important thing, that may cover the whole field of life.
30:18 Go on, sir, avanti.
30:24 Q: Do we understand what we mean by life?
30:27 K: We’re going to find out, sir.
30:30 Q: Perhaps that is the question.
30:34 K: But you all say, ‘I love you darling,’ don’t you?
30:38 Q: Life. I said life, not love.
30:43 K: Life. Then what is life? All this is life—love, relationship, hatred—at least what they call life.
30:54 And killing, having a rotten relationship, careers which destroy people, all that is life.
31:10 Right? So what do you think? Come on, I’m not going to leave you alone about this matter because you’re going to face this when you go outside.
31:28 If you can learn about this while you’re here, it’ll help you tremendously when you go out.
31:35 Wolves are waiting for you outside there.
31:45 And if you know what a wolf is then you’ll know how to deal with it.
31:52 And you may be the wolf too. (Laughs) Q: Isn’t it obvious that what we do is what we think is important, not what we say we think is important.
32:09 K: Of course, of course, not what verbally you say, but what you feel inwardly, what you sense, what you have… an inclination.
32:15 Q: In a sense, I don’t think we’re looking for what we’d all sit around in a room and think what is more important than something else.
32:25 K: No.
32:26 Q: But actually look and see what are those concepts or motives or drives or ideas that actually shape our lives.
32:34 K: Quite right. Of course, sir, all that’s implied.
32:36 Q: So that for some of us going to school is obviously important because we are in a school.
32:42 K: It is, but going to school, which is a place where we learn, is important.
32:53 So do you say learning—learning—is the most important thing?
32:56 Q: Well, I don’t know. I think I would say that was partially so. Because, I mean, we could sit here and we could say, ‘Right, okay, relationship and all this is the most important thing,’ but I mean, do we really mean that?
33:15 K: No.
33:17 Q: In a sense we’re just kidding ourselves.
33:24 Isn’t that so? To me the only way you can find out if that is so is by learning and trying to do it.
33:36 K: Sir, look...
33:40 Q: Because I can say relationship is the most important thing and loving is the most important thing.
33:53 K: No, no, wait a minute. If I think a career is the most important thing in life, then I can devote my attention to that, learn all about having a good career, how to get it, what are the things implied in it, how to develop a capacity for it.
34:21 Therefore I give my attention, energy, curiosity, learning to that, excluding everything else, because that’s the only thing I’m concerned [with].
34:37 But if I say, ‘Look, that’s only a part of life,’ and I want to understand the whole if it, not just a segment of it or a part of it, then I have to look elsewhere, haven’t I?
34:57 That’s what we are trying to do.
35:01 Q: I don’t know. I was trying to find a way to say that if I said that love and caring for a person and all that is important, then it’s very difficult to say so because when leave them or something you begin to argue.
35:21 K: Of course, of course, but I’m going... Look, if you say love is the most important thing, you have a feeling for it, then we learn about it, we examine it, we go into it.
35:34 Q: But I think you have to see that through your personal experience.
35:37 K: No, no, not necessarily. We’ll find out. Don’t stipulate before you start. (Pause) Sir, would you say relationship is the most important thing?
36:04 Because that is society, that is the social order: relationship between man and man, or woman—you know, relationship.
36:19 Q: It seems to me that it is the basis of the whole of existence, our existence.
36:31 K: So it’s the basis of our existence, relationship, and you want to learn about it, go into it, examine it, explore it, find out.
36:42 Not just say, ‘Well, teach me about relationship, I’ll see if I like it or not.’ (Pause) Right?
37:16 What do you say?
37:19 Q: It seems like you have to have relationship with everything: you have to have it with your parents, in your job with your boss, with your teachers, with the people you meet every day, and with yourself.
37:32 K: But you forgot nature too.
37:34 Q: And nature.
37:35 Q: It seems to me, I can’t grasp what you’ve been talking about.
37:47 I can’t pinpoint one thing which is the most important. I am concerned with everything.
37:52 K: No, no, look, Nelson, we said, what is the thing, in learning about it, that will cover the whole field of existence?
38:05 You follow? Not one particular thing but...
38:13 Q: That’s the way you are phrasing it.
38:21 It seems to me you’re saying, what is the most important thing?
38:22 K: Yes, yes. Or if you don’t like to put it that way, put it differently. What will cover the whole field of existence?
38:34 And if there is one thing or two things or three things, I want to learn about it. Right? If you like to put it that way, put it that way.
38:47 Q: One thing that seems to cover most of it is learning itself.
39:00 Learning.
39:01 K: Learning—learning is the most important thing. All right, let’s take that, shall we? Oh, for God’s sake, are you all asleep on a Sunday morning or what? Learning. Now, why do you want to learn about anything?
39:24 Why do you want to learn? Your parents sent you here to Brockwood to learn mathematics, geography, history, physics, botany, biology, and all the rest of it.
39:43 And you are forced to learn because they have conditioned you, saying that if you don’t pass exams you won’t get a job.
39:55 And the parents say, ‘We can’t afford to support you.’ That is the culture in which you are brought up.
40:03 So you are conditioned to learn, forced to learn, in order to have a good career.
40:11 Right?
40:12 Q: Have the parents sent their children here for that? Have the parents sent their children here for an academic career?
40:25 K: Not entirely.
40:27 Q: Not at all.
40:28 K: Not at all. All right, I send my child, if I have a child, to Brockwood so that he will learn something.
40:36 Right?
40:37 Q: They want two things, Krishnaji. They want that as well.
40:42 K: They want that. So, learning; learning not only about mathematics and so on, but also plus something else.
40:51 But the essence of the parents sending you here is to learn.
40:59 Right? Learn about religion, about conduct, about behaviour, about relationship—right?—about truth—if you can learn about truth—how to live a life that is complete, whole, a life that is not fragmented, broken-up, so when you’re living you’re not jealous, anxious, frightened, all the rest of it.
41:36 Right? You are here for that purpose. That means you are here to learn about everything. Right? Are you interested in learning about everything? Go on—are you?
41:53 Q: I found it difficult, but through the two years that I’ve been here, I mean, I’m finding it gets a little better each time.
42:14 I’m finding it gets a little better each time. I mean, I’ve had a bad… you know, sort of a… as you say, a fragmented life, and so I came and I say, ‘Well, right, okay, you’re trying to teach me these things.’ K: So you want to learn, don’t you?
42:44 Q: Right.
42:45 K: Right. Now what is the... what are the tools or what are the essential things which will help you to learn?
42:50 Q: Thought.
42:52 K: No, no, Philip, that’s not it.
43:00 Q: Or other people’s… (inaudible) K: Look, look, I said—please, do listen, don’t jump to anything, find out if I’m saying something worthwhile or not, before you answer.
43:20 I am asking you, what are the necessary implements or necessary qualities that will help you to learn?
43:31 Just listen to it first. To learn implies curiosity, doesn’t it? You must be curious. Not experiment at all, but curious.
43:52 Right? That means curiosity, energy, attention.
44:06 All that is essential to learn. Have you got curiosity?
44:25 Not towards something, but curiosity. I want to know about the whales, I want to know how people think, I want to know a little bit about sex, I want to know, learn.
44:39 Are you curious? Or only curious about one thing or two things? And if you’re curious, have you got enough energy to pursue that?
45:02 Which means right food, proper sleep, proper exercise, not a sloppy way of living.
45:17 That will give you energy to pursue your curiosity.
45:25 That means attention. This is essential to learn, whether it’s mathematics, about yourself, about God, about whatever it is.
45:37 Right? Now, let’s find out if that is so—curiosity, energy, attention—if that is the requirement for a mind that is capable of learning, that wants to learn.
46:01 Now, are you curious fragmentarily or are you curious about the whole of life?
46:14 You understand my question? You understand my question? I may be curious about a whale, about the whales, the dolphins, but I’m not curious about sex, I’m not curious about mathematics, I’m not curious about how I live.
46:36 My mind is taken up with one curiosity, and that doesn’t give me energy to understand the whole of life.
46:56 Have you got such curiosity about yourself?
47:03 I want to know about myself. I’m frightfully curious why I think this way, why I behave that way, why I think about myself all day long: how beautiful, how ugly, how this, how that.
47:17 Q: Isn’t that an essential, the capacity to learn?
47:26 K: I’m saying… I’m asking you. I’m asking you, are you curious only about one or two things or are you curious about the whole of life?
47:47 Curious about the totality, or a segment of it.
47:57 Then if you are curious you must have energy—mustn’t you?—to pursue what you are curious about, to learn about.
48:09 Have you got that energy? Oh, come on, sir.
48:15 Q: Krishnaji, when we are born and we are babies, we exist...
48:24 K: Ah. Are you curious now? Not when you’re a baby. Have you got that energy now?
48:36 Q: Then it becomes distorted.
48:37 K: No, it...
48:38 Q: You see children…
48:39 K: Therefore you learn about the distortion, why you are distorted.
48:48 Not go to a psychiatrist, but find out. It may be your parents, it may be your friends, it may be your... the people you live with.
49:03 Learn about it. That is curiosity. Don’t go back and say, ‘Well, my parents are that way therefore I’m this way,’ and just go along sloppily.
49:20 And are you willing to give time, attention, to have this energy to pursue the totality of curiosity about life?
49:37 Come on, sirs! If you are not curious, if you have not the energy, why haven’t you got it? Is it that you’re eating the wrong kind of food?
49:55 Come on, learn! Not having enough exercise? Or you’re so concerned about yourself, how you look, how your hair is, how your lips are, how your eyes are, you know, so tremendously concerned about yourself that you have no energy except for that little self.
50:23 You understand what I’m talking about? Which is it? My golly.
50:33 Q: How much is all this ambition, curiosity for one particular thing?
50:45 K: Ambition. What is the relationship between curiosity and ambition? Right?
50:53 Q: Because people… (inaudible) K: Yes. What do you think is ambition? I wonder what that word comes from. I forgot to look it up. Would you tell me? ‘Ambit’.
51:10 DB: It’s ‘ambit’—from going around and around.
51:11 K: Round – that’s it—(laughter) ‘ambit’. You see? The people who are ambitious are going round and round and round.
51:27 That’s perfect! Which they are. Come on, sir. What is the relationship between ambition and curiosity? I am learning. You follow? You’re not learning, you’re just sitting there!
51:45 Q: Well, ambition is when you want to reach a certain point.
51:51 K: Which is, having reached that point or going towards that point, you go round and round and round on that point.
51:59 I want to become the prime minister—God forbid—and I think about it night and day, I go around it and I say, ‘Well, I must do this, I must put…’—you follow?—I’m going...
52:13 I’m circling myself with that idea. ‘Ambulance’—you know?—it comes from...
52:15 Q: It seems you’re so caught up with that ambition that you have no time or thought for anything else.
52:33 K: Wait, wait. That is so, but I’m saying, what is—learn—what is the relationship between curiosity and ambition?
52:48 Can the two go together?
52:49 Q: No, not at all, because...
52:54 K: Wait. You have said no. Right? Have you learned from it? That is, a man who is ambitious, he has stopped his curiosity.
53:12 He has got something which he wants. He has put... he has a conclusion around which he goes, and for which he has enough energy.
53:27 That going round and round a conclusion, an idea, a self-projected imagination or desire, doesn’t that limit curiosity?
53:41 Q: It distorts it.
53:43 K: Of course, it distorts it. Right? I’ve learnt something. You understand? I’ve learnt if I’m curious and if there is ambition, curiosity is perverted.
53:58 Q: Isn’t importance and ambition very similar? If you think you know what is important then that will be your ambition.
54:09 K: No, no, I’m learning about it.
54:16 Therefore I’m never caught in going round and round—I’m learning, moving.
54:20 Q: Well, if you say this is not important then you’ll never even look at it.
54:25 K: No, I’m going to look at it. I’m curious why I said it’s not important. Therefore I learn why I have said it’s not important. You get it? So, you have learnt this, the difference between curiosity and ambition.
54:48 Have you got it, Philip? Right. You see, you have learnt something, haven’t you? Now, have you got that energy to carry out your curiosity?
55:09 I’m curious about myself.
55:16 I’m taking that as an example. I want to know why I think, I want to know what my relationships are.
55:32 I want to find out how I behave, why I behave, why I say things.
55:40 I want to find out, learn how to walk properly, how to sit properly.
55:48 I’ve been through all this—you understand?—I’m not just vaguely suggesting. I’ve worked at it, because I’m very curious why I think that.
56:10 Is it traditional? Is it because everybody thinks that way? Because I am like everybody else, therefore I am just repeating something, slogans?
56:23 So having that curiosity, have I the energy to go very deeply in the understanding of myself?
56:34 You understand? That means I mustn’t waste energy. I don’t know if... I mustn’t watch myself all day long in the mirror and say how beautiful I am, or how ugly I am and I would like to be like that, or concerned about my sex, my desire, my pleasure, you know, my petty little nothingness.
57:08 Have I driven you to silence? (Laughs) Q: I am curious to know how… can we survive just by mere curiosity in the world?
57:25 I mean, can we survive by mere curiosity in the world, without the thinking of thought?
57:40 K: No. Look, I want to learn why people go to war. Right? I’m curious. Why do they go to war?
57:51 Q: Mostly it is personal advantage, personal fear which creates...
58:00 K: What? No, Tungki, think it out. Why do you go to war?
58:11 Q: Firstly, people are influenced and there are key points in...
58:20 K: Look, there have been religious wars, you know that, a hundred years of religious wars in Europe.
58:28 Why? Kill for Christianity’s sake, kill for Jesus.
58:39 Why? And kill for nationality, my country.
58:49 Why?
58:50 Q: People have chosen a particular direction in which they want to go, a particular security which will give them something to work towards, and everything else is forgotten.
59:15 K: Sir, there has been a war between the Israelis and the Arabs. There’s been a war—recently, I’m talking about—between Hindus and Muslims, in India. There’s been a war in Vietnam. Why? Why have the Hindus butchered the Muslims, and the Muslims butchered the Hindus? What? For what purpose?
59:39 Q: Because they believe so strongly in their Hinduism or they believe so strongly...
59:43 K: Which means go into it, don’t... Learn about it! You don’t have to read history.
59:49 Q: Attachment to an ideal.
59:53 K: Which means I being a Hindu with my traditions, with my ideas, with my gods, with my superstitions and my security, that is, my property, and the other fellow believing that he’s a Muslim, his ideas, his...
1:00:13 So, see what happens? I don’t want to tell you—learn.
1:00:16 Q: So when the Hindu goes over to destroy somebody else’s security and ideals...
1:00:23 K: Find out. There was a war, a tremendous war, between Hitler and that group, insane group, with the rest of the world.
1:00:36 Why? They butchered, did everything to destroy six million Jews. Stalin with his craze, millions, twelve millions and more destroyed, Russians, of his own people.
1:00:55 Why? You see, you’re not curious, you don’t want to learn, you don’t want to find out.
1:01:13 Not from a book, from yourself. If there was no book in the world, what would you do?
1:01:23 And people around you are killing, invading countries, destroying freedom, imposing their ideas.
1:01:32 Q: These people are not curious about their minds.
1:01:35 K: That’s why I said to you, I’m curious. I’m very curious why human beings allow themselves to be killed and to kill.
1:01:52 I was taken once to a hospital—I want to rub this into you to find out—by a doctor.
1:02:00 It was a hospital where nobody was allowed visitors, even their own parents, their relations.
1:02:12 This doctor was a friend and he said, ‘I must show you something.’ He took me to a hospital and there they were: some without arms and legs and no eyes.
1:02:31 You understand? Some just...—oh, I can’t tell you what they were like. You all shake but you are going to produce this.
1:02:47 (Pause) Just a torso—you understand?—head, no eyes, no mouth, no ears, no arms, no legs, nothing but this—and keeping alive.
1:03:07 And he was... the war did that. And there were dozens of them like that. And he asked me, ‘You have seen it, and for God’s sake don’t say where it is. I’m not allowed to show you this horror.’ Yes, sir, Christians produced this.
1:03:32 I don’t say the Hindus...—only two religions, Buddhism and Hinduism, have not indulged in this kind of butchery.
1:03:42 Q: Until 1947.
1:03:45 K: Until 1947, then began their beastliness.
1:03:53 So there is no book, and you have to learn why human beings destroy each other, destroy nature, destroy the most extraordinary animal in the sea, the whale, which has got such an enormous brain.
1:04:27 And you say, ‘Now, I want to learn, I’m very curious about myself.’ Not one day I’m curious, the next day I forget all about it and do something…—I’m curious all the time.
1:04:39 I want to learn about myself. I watch myself.
1:04:43 Q: I’d like to just offer an answer to that question as though I were a religious person.
1:04:51 I’ve travelled with them and asked them why these wars, etc. have been produced. And their answer is something like this, so that we could look at it. They say the reason for us making all this trouble is that we have not come close enough to God.
1:05:15 K: Yes, sir, this is the eternal… So till I reach God I am allowed to kill.
1:05:25 Q: Right.
1:05:26 K: Lovely, isn’t it?
1:05:28 Q: So they say we should forget ourselves… (inaudible) K: Yes, yes, I know all that. But all the responsibility is taken over by the army. They feed my wife and my children, and I’m killed in the meantime and put a stone down there.
1:05:45 No, it’s rot! So, please, I want to learn about myself. I’m not talking against or for war; I’m watching why human beings—I am a human being like the rest—I want to know why human beings kill each other, why human beings want to dominate each other, why human beings like myself cling to one concept of God, Jesus Christ and Trinity and everlasting life when you die.
1:06:26 And the others—their image, their concepts, their superstitions—why?
1:06:37 Just across the border of two miles.
1:06:45 You understand all this? Do you understand this?
1:06:55 Why? You are conditioned across the border, what they call a border, you are conditioned to believe in this, and across the border you are conditioned not to believe that.
1:07:13 And you go to kill each other for that, for ideas.
1:07:23 You understand, sir? So...
1:07:25 Q: Is it only for the ideas or...
1:07:26 K: Properties.
1:07:27 Q: …or is there just a reason to...
1:07:28 K: Listen, that’s why I said there is a difference between reality and truth.
1:07:35 (Laughs) Reality is property. For that reality which thought has made I’m willing to kill you, and you’re willing to kill me.
1:07:59 So I’m curious and I want to find out myself... about myself.
1:08:07 Myself is the world because I am like everybody else: greedy, ambitious.
1:08:14 No, I’m not, I’ve never been, but I’m supposing. So I learn. To learn about myself I must have tremendous energy—right?—a constant flow of energy.
1:08:34 So I must look after my body, exercise, right food, right exercise.
1:08:42 You follow, sir? You people. Do you want to do all this? That’s why you’re sent to Brockwood—not merely to learn mathematics and physics and biology, but also all this other side.
1:09:01 If you say, ‘I’m sorry, I’m not interested in any damn thing,’ well then it’s all right, then you’re caught in the stream of butchery, of ignorance, of stupidity, and they will use you.
1:09:28 Oh, for God’s sake, come on, sirs.
1:09:38 So if you think learning is one of the greatest things in life—if you think—learning implies curiosity, which is not experience.
1:10:02 I’m curious—say for instance, climbing the Everest is an experience—right?—but I’m very curious why Mr Hillary and another—what’s the chap?
1:10:23 Q: Tenzing.
1:10:25 K: …want to climb a mountain. What idiocy it is. Or whatever it is. Why do they want to climb mountains? To show that they have done it? To have an experience and the boast and the vanity of climbing the highest mountains in the world?
1:10:48 Why are human beings—you follow, sir?—why do they do these things? I’m not condemning them. I say, why? I wish they had spent that tremendous energy in finding out how to stop a war.
1:11:09 Q: But, sir, supposing I see this war and this butchery of which you were speaking, and so I say, ‘All right, I’m going to love everybody, I’m not going to hate anybody.’ K: No, no.
1:11:27 No, sir, I did not say I’m going to love somebody. I am going to learn why people kill each other. Learn.
1:11:39 Q: But can you explain, sir, what is wrong with saying—seeing the butchery and the violence—that I’m therefore going to be a good person and not be involved in that?
1:11:50 K: Do you exclude yourself from it?
1:11:57 When you yourself hate, when you yourself consider, ‘I am a Hindu,’ ‘I am an Englishman,’ ‘I am German,’ and exclude because they call themselves Germans, Russians and Poles.
1:12:13 We are talking about a human being, not the label.
1:12:19 Q: So you are saying that I am a part of that.
1:12:40 K: Obviously. Oh Lord, come on sirs.
1:12:42 Q: As you said before, we do not seem to have a burning curiosity so there must be a blocking somewhere.
1:12:46 K: Now, learn about it. All right, Tungki, come on. You haven’t got that burning curiosity, have you? You may have about aeroplanes, about engines or about something. You haven’t this enormous curiosity of learning about human beings, which is yourself.
1:13:06 You haven’t got that, have you? Be simple, Tungki.
1:13:09 Q: Not fully.
1:13:11 K: Ah! (Laughs) Q: There is… (inaudible) K: It’s like—you know the curate’s egg?
1:13:18 Q: I beg your pardon?
1:13:21 K: (Laughs) You know the curate’s egg, which is half bad? It doesn’t matter. (Laughs) Half rotten. Never mind, it doesn’t matter. When you say, ‘I’m a little curious about myself,’ that isn’t good enough.
1:13:42 Why aren’t you totally, completely curious about yourself, because you’re a human being like the rest of the world?
1:13:52 Why aren’t you?
1:13:55 Q: Because it would involve giving up a lot.
1:13:59 K: No, I said curiosity, not giving up.
1:14:01 Q: No, but...
1:14:02 K: It may lead you, but you’re already projecting something and therefore you say, ‘My God, I can’t.’ Q: Well, if there’s an area of action that I do eventually, and I say, ‘Well, every time’—if I want to look at those then I have to say, ‘Well, if I look at them I may be subject to having to change.’ K: I don’t know.
1:14:30 I’m going to find out. Therefore you have projected by thought a reality...
1:14:35 Q: So that’s what’s bothering you.
1:14:38 K: ...which may be non-real. So what I’m asking you, Tungki says, ‘I’m not very curious about myself.’ I say, ‘Why?’ ‘I’m a little curious.’ Where does a little curiosity lead?
1:15:08 Is there curiosity—little—that’s like the beginnings of a river?
1:15:16 Drop by drop, drop by drop, as it moves it gets more and more and more water, more volume, more vitality—you follow?—there is some tremendous force behind it.
1:15:30 You begin a little curious. Is that little curiosity like the river, beginnings of a river?
1:15:39 Or you say, ‘Yes, I’m a little curious,’ and you walk away from it.
1:15:45 Q: I think there is something not quite right.
1:15:56 It’s like there is a block of stone somewhere which...
1:16:03 K: When the volume is great, of water, it goes over the rock, round the rock—it moves.
1:16:12 You are already preventing yourself from learning when you say, There is a block, I can’t learn.’ Q: Krishnaji, being a little…
1:16:28 Q: Maybe we can trace what is the thing which deadens curiosity.
1:16:47 Is it a certain way of living or something which...
1:16:52 K: No, you see you’re already... I’m not talking of a certain way of living. I am curious why human beings behave that way. I am that human being. And I say, as I am that human being, ‘Why do I behave this way? Why do I hate people, why do I think about myself, everlastingly about myself?’—whether I’m making progress, whether I’m virtuous, whether I’m enjoying myself, I must enjoy—you follow?—going round and round and round, about myself.
1:17:30 Aren’t you interested in it? Aren’t you curious about yourself? Oh my God, I’m... (laughs) That’s why I asked at the beginning: what do you think is the most important thing that you want to learn about?
1:18:01 (Pause) Q: In studying, does one learn anything?
1:18:15 It doesn’t seem...
1:18:20 K: No, you know, Tungki, we said the other day: school means a place where you learn.
1:18:42 It may be under a tree, in a room or a roof, or anywhere—a place of learning.
1:18:50 Scholarship, scholastic, all that comes from that word ‘learning’—school.
1:19:02 And if the place is congenial, nice, a room that’s well-proportioned, lighted, you know, beauty with it, you learn easier, happier.
1:19:12 Q: I don’t think there is much learning going on, in that sense.
1:19:23 K: Why not? Whose fault? Is it your fault or somebody else’s fault?
1:19:36 It’s so easy to blame: ’Sorry, this place isn’t... I’m not learning here.’ So easy, isn’t it, complain? That’s what we all do, complain.
1:19:52 Here is a beautiful place. You’re offered everything if you want to learn.
1:20:06 If you want to learn from this person who is unfortunately sitting here, if you want to learn from him, learn, don’t sit around and look at your nails and think about your hair—learn!
1:20:19 Q: Sir, the most important thing for me is why I can’t just open my mouth and start talking.
1:20:21 K: Sorry, I can’t… you are not speaking clearly.
1:20:22 Q: This morning, I just literally can’t start talking?
1:20:33 K: You can’t?
1:20:34 Q: Yes. I mean, all through this I probably had a lot of things to say.
1:20:36 K: But you can’t talk about it.
1:20:38 Q: Yes.
1:20:40 K: Why?
1:20:42 Q: I don’t know.
1:20:45 K: Ah! Don’t ever say you don’t know—learn about it. Why don’t I? Is it shyness? Is it, if I talk I’ll expose myself, and I don’t want to expose myself in front of everybody?
1:21:09 Q: It doesn’t feel like that.
1:21:12 K: Wait, wait, I’m examining, sir. Is it what I have to say, what I think cannot be put into words clearly therefore I’m rather shy?
1:21:23 Is it that in front of a group of people I’m inhibited, you know, held back?
1:21:30 Q: That’s what it feels like.
1:21:33 K: That’s probably it. Right? Now, why are you held back?
1:21:44 Q: Well, I’m not now.
1:21:48 K: You’re not now. (Laughter) Of course! Ecco! You see? You see, Button? You’ve got it? Because I am interested in finding out why you are…—you follow?—there is communication between us instantly.
1:22:16 (Pause) Do you know what that word ‘communication’ means?
1:22:46 To think together doesn’t mean agreeing together. To think together, to use words that we both understand, words that you don’t give a special meaning or I give a special meaning.
1:23:10 Communication means thinking, feeling, looking, creating, sharing.
1:23:20 All that is implied in that word. There he was, he wanted to share something, he wanted to tell me something, tell us something, and he found it very difficult to put into words, because he felt restrained, inhibited, awkward to say something in front of people.
1:23:49 And he realised it instantly and, finished. You follow? It may come back, but he’s got the tiger by the tail. (Laughs) You’ve got the animal by the tail.
1:24:06 Q: But supposing there’s a situation like this where a staff or a student says, ‘Why don’t you want to look your best?’ Aren’t we introducing here another body of influence?
1:24:17 K: Now, wait a minute. You are... Are you putting a hypothetical question or an actual question?
1:24:29 If it is a hypothetical question there is no true answer.
1:24:32 Q: No.
1:24:33 K: Listen to it! Listen to what I have to say. You’re already off. I said, to a hypothetical question there is no true answer.
1:24:51 True answer—right?—truthful answer. If it is a hypothetical question and I answer it, it’ll be in the realm of reality created by thought.
1:25:06 Right, sir? (Laughs) You follow? I’m burning with learning.
1:25:13 Q: But the interaction will take place in that type of thing, if it is a hypothetical question.
1:25:27 If I was to ask the student, you know, ‘Why don’t you want to… (inaudible) Why don’t you make the bed?’ K: Now, wait a minute.
1:25:30 Q: It’s coming from me with a motive, that I have an idea... (inaudible) K: No, no, I’ll show it to you. I’m your student. I don’t make the bed or I don’t put on... I’m dirty, I don’t wash. How will you deal with me? You want me to learn. How will you deal with me?
1:25:48 Q: Well, I can’t deal with you by looking at it in that way because I have a motive in mind.
1:25:54 K: No, no, you are... Please, I have no... Please just listen. You want to help me to make my bed, and I don’t make my bed.
1:26:08 What will you do with me? How will you help me to make my bed? Come on, sirs.
1:26:20 Q: First of all, Krishnaji, I would explain to you why it is necessary to make your bed.
1:26:32 K: Yes, you have explained to me ten times.
1:26:36 Q: Twenty.
1:26:37 K: And every morning: ‘Yes, sir!’ I don’t make my bed. What are you going to do with me?
1:26:47 How will you help me to learn of the necessity of making the bed, of keeping the room clean—you follow?—all that is involved in making a bed?
1:27:00 How will you help me?
1:27:01 Q: Well, I’m curious about our relationship.
1:27:04 K: No, no, don’t go off into... (laughs) Tell me what you will do with a case like this immediately there in front of you.
1:27:17 And you have told me ten times: sit straight, don’t... etc., etc., etc. How will you help me to learn the importance of order? You understand? When I don’t make my bed, it is disorder. When I don’t put away my clothes properly, it is disorder. When I don’t wash myself, it is disorder. Not according to my idea of order—it is disorder when you have in a room the bed not made, your clothes all over the place, boots here and socks over there.
1:27:58 I have done this—you follow?—when I was small. It is disorder. Now, how will you help me to learn what is order? You see how I have moved from your idea that I must make the bed.
1:28:20 I don’t know if...
1:28:21 Q: Well, obviously telling them isn’t going to help. What if you ask, what if you say, ‘How come you don’t make your bed?’ K: No, no, I am not interested in making the bed. I am interested in learning and helping to learn what is order.
1:28:37 If he learns what is order, he’ll do the bed.
1:28:39 Q: What if he says that order is not important?
1:28:43 K: No, no! I say, ‘Why not?’ I go into it.
1:28:48 Q: But why is it important?
1:28:50 K: I’ll show you. Oh, my God. You want to know why it is important?
1:28:55 Q: Yes.
1:28:58 K: Do you? Are you really asking that question, why you think order is important?
1:29:12 Do you think coming to meals punctually is unimportant?
1:29:19 Coming to meals punctually is order—right?—because the people who have prepared the food have got it ready for you, what you eat, etc., etc.
1:29:32 That is order. It is not what I think is order.
1:29:41 You are keeping people waiting, discourtesy, not concerned, you are occupied with something else, and they keep...—you follow?
1:29:53 All that is a movement of disorder. Not according to my concept or my prejudice. If I keep you waiting in this hall for ten minutes because I’m lying down reading a book or looking out of the window and not be concerned, it would be disorder.
1:30:15 Wouldn’t you? I would be impolite. Right? You would say, ‘What do you mean by coming ten minutes late?’ And you’re perfectly right to ask me, ‘Why do you come so late?’ So my concern not to keep you waiting is order.
1:30:36 No?
1:30:37 Q: That’s one example.
1:30:42 K: I’m taking one example at a time.
1:30:49 Making my bed, if I don’t make it, I live in disorder. Which indicates my mind is in disorder.
1:31:02 And a mind that is in disorder cannot learn. Right, sir? (Pause) Q: Is this because consciously or unconsciously I have the thought that I should have made my bed and therefore that interferes in my...
1:31:16 K: I’m learning. I see if I don’t make my bed it indicates that I am a disorderly mind, I’m disorderly in my behaviour, disorderly in my walk, in my speech.
1:31:33 Q: But we all know people who are extremely orderly in their everyday lives and they are...
1:31:39 K: They are like machines.
1:31:42 Q: Exactly.
1:31:46 K: That becomes a habit. I know a man who cannot tolerate a book on a table not quite straight.
1:31:55 He goes into hysterics. And every—I’ve been into his room only once or twice, fortunately—every book in its place as though nobody lived in the place.
1:32:13 That is, I mean, it becomes a nauseating neuroticism.
1:32:20 But that’s irrelevant. Now, so I point out, I learn what is disorder. If you don’t know how to walk properly, it is disorder.
1:32:34 Not the way I learn... the way I walk is the right order. You follow? I say, ‘If you don’t know how to walk properly, with dignity, with care, with attention, it’s part of disorder.’ So I go into everything—you follow, sir?—disorder: how you eat, whether you eat sloppily, whether you eat with care, how you hold your fork, how you hold your knife.
1:33:10 Q: (Inaudible) …interest and curiosity.
1:33:18 Like your interaction with Bruce, there was interest and curiosity on both your parts; you were communicating on the same plane.
1:33:32 K: Of course.
1:33:33 Q: Now, if you are approaching anybody and saying, ‘Let’s look into this making the bed. Let’s look into what’s order...’ K: I wouldn’t even say, ‘Let’s look.’ Then you’ll take already a superior position. I would say, ‘Look, don’t bother about your bed, doing the bed, let’s talk about disorder.’ Q: But I don’t want to talk; I’m busy.
1:33:46 K: All right, all right. That means, are you learning? You are here to learn.
1:33:54 Q: I would say, ‘I’ve had a bad morning and I don’t want to hear any more.’ I mean, there’s lots of blocks.
1:34:12 K: You can come up against an ice block. You can melt it.
1:34:19 Q: But maybe not right at that time.
1:34:23 K: No, no, I’ll take time. I’ve got a whole term here. I’ll take time, I’ll watch. When he’s in a proper, melting, sentimental, (laughs) (laughter) gooey mood, I’ll pick him up. Don’t.
1:34:29 Q: So the ice has to be melted through vibration.
1:34:36 K: No, no, I want… my whole existence of coming to Brockwood as a teacher, as an educator, as a student, is to learn.
1:34:52 And therefore I’m very curious why you don’t learn. I’m going to find out why you don’t learn. You may learn mathematics and so on, but why don’t you learn about other things?
1:35:07 Q: On a subject, I mean, it happened with me in the library over there—I take a book in the library and I am interested in learning it, but then when I get up to do something I think I have to finish this, then the curiosity disappears.
1:35:36 K: I don’t quite follow.
1:35:39 Q: On my free time or...
1:35:41 K: Yes, free time.
1:35:42 Q: When there is no ‘must’...
1:35:44 K: You see, there is never a must.
1:35:46 Q: There is never a must in truth, there is only a must in...
1:35:59 K: There is never a must or should.
1:36:02 Q: Well, there’s a must that you (inaudible) K: Wait!. You see, you...
1:36:08 Q: If I…
1:36:10 K: I start—please—I never want to deal hypothetically: a must or a should.
1:36:18 There is only reality. The reality is that I don’t make my bed. That’s a reality. Not that I should make a bed or I must make a bed. And I say, ‘Wait, I don’t know why he doesn’t make the bed, I’m going to find out, I’m going to talk to him about how he looks at a tree, how he looks at his girl.’ Q: But then he can—I mean, this has happened, it’s not hypothetical—they can say, or I could say to you, ‘You’re not perfect.’ K: I am not interested in being perfect.
1:36:57 I am not interested in being perfect. You introduced that word to me and then blame me over... And I say, ‘Sorry, I don’t accept that word.’ Q: But you’re telling me that I’m not ordered. But you’re not ordered. How do you know what order is?
1:37:12 K: I don’t know, I’m going to find out. Let’s both go at it. I don’t put myself on a pedestal and say I’m orderly. It would be stupid on my part. And I won’t allow myself to be stupid. (Laughs) So I say, ‘Now, let’s go into this. How do you look at that boy going by, that girl? How do you look at that car? Do you notice what kind of make it is?’ You follow, sir?
1:37:48 And I say, ‘By Jove, you mean to say you haven’t noticed that car, what make it is? What’s wrong with you? Are you asleep? Not enough exercise? Not enough food? Then let’s go back to right food.’ You follow, sir?
1:38:06 Q: Sir, can I ask you why you’re so interested in order?
1:38:11 K: Ah! (Laughs) I am interested in learning about why people live in disorder.
1:38:20 Their sloppy way of thinking, their way of—you follow?
1:38:32 Why? If you are sloppy in an office, they throw you out.
1:38:41 So you are really frightened not to be orderly in an office.
1:38:48 So fear is your guide. Right? So I say, ‘Look, what are you afraid about? Losing a job? Therefore...’ You understand, sir? Now we have talked enough. That’s enough. Have you learnt... are you learning anything this morning? Not have learnt—do you see the difference between having learnt, which becomes memory and then repetition?
1:39:20 So I’m asking you, what have you found this morning? We’ve spent an hour and a half, an hour and three quarters—what have you found?
1:39:40 I have found something, which is, curiosity and ambition.
1:39:58 And also I have found—I’ve talked about it in California—reality and truth, what is the relationship of thought to truth.
1:40:14 I won’t go into all that. So have you gathered some substance this morning, Philip? Have you? Have you really?
1:40:27 Q: I don’t actually feel any different, but...
1:40:31 K: You’ve got something? Come on, sir, don’t...
1:40:38 Q: I don’t really know.
1:40:39 K: You don’t know.
1:40:40 Q: No.
1:40:41 K: Why not?
1:40:41 Q: I don’t want to. Nothing… (inaudible) K: Right. Is that enough?