Krishnamurti - Excellence

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR75DSS1.04 - Excellence
Brockwood Park, UK - 15 May 1975
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.04

0:01	This is J. Krishnamurti’s fourth discussion with teachers and students at Brockwood Park, 1975.
0:11	Krishnamurti: What were we talking about last Sunday when we all got together here?
0:20	Do you remember? Questioner: Well, one thing which I remember is that you suggested to do something for the curiosity and for the interest in doing, instead of the compulsion or the result which we are going to get later on.
0:42	And...
0:43	K: And also I think we talked about curiosity and ambition.
0:51	And you know that word ‘ambition’ means also going round and round, but also it means going around collecting votes.
1:04	You understand? It came from that word, going around to collect votes. You know, you have to be ambitious to go and get votes.
1:21	All that’s implied. So what shall we...
1:27	Q: I wonder how far can we live purely from interest and curiosity?
1:38	K: How can we live wholly from curiosity and...
1:45	Q: Interest.
1:46	K: No, no, do you remember, Tungkiji, Tungki, that we said to learn one must be curious?
1:58	And also to learn means you must have energy to continue in that curiosity.
2:12	And also it means attention. Do you remember we said all that? You mean to say that we cannot live that way all through life? That’s what you’re asking.
2:27	Q: It seems, seeing from...
2:30	K: A very ambitious man, who is not only going round collecting votes but going round and round his own particular aim or desire, he’s got a great deal of energy, he wants to go ahead.
2:56	And it’s all centred round himself. So—wait a minute—what shall we talk about this morning?
3:07	(Pause) Remember we asked, last time we met here: what is it that interests you most, what is it that… of the greatest cover, or covers the whole field of existence, what is the thing that really involves the whole existence of life?
3:51	Do you remember that? We talked about it. Remember? We said, is it career, a job, a profession? Is it a relationship between you and me and society?
4:12	Is it the whole movement of thought? You remember? Or is it—someone brought it up—love? Now, you must have—I hope you have thought a little bit about it.
4:34	What do you consider—we left off, really, there—what do you consider the greatest coverage, greatest importance, greatest, essential thing that will cover the whole field of existence?
5:00	Not only the career, not only relationship, not only the movement of thought, and also love—what is it that will cover this whole field which we call living?
5:14	Have you thought about it at all, or you forgot it the moment you left this room?
5:26	I’m afraid so. So what do you think? You understand my question?
5:40	What do you think, Philip? What do you think, sir?
5:42	Q: It doesn’t seem to have one thing you could say to everything...
5:55	K: Why not?
5:57	Q: Well...
5:58	K: Inquire, inquire, don’t say, ‘It is not,’ ‘It is.’ Inquire, find out.
6:05	Q: I feel they all seem to be connected.
6:12	K: You think they are all connected. Then if they are all interrelated—interrelated, that is, related to each other—then where would you begin?
6:27	You understand my question? Career, which is a job, profession; relationship between man and man, which creates society; thinking, the movement of thought; and love.
6:53	Now, you say they are all interrelated. Now, where would you begin, to say, ‘I will begin there and then come... take up the whole…
7:04	which will take the whole?’ You understand what I’m...
7:08	Q: Seems that, if they were all related, then if you started anywhere it would take you to...
7:18	K: Start it, you start it. (Laughs) If you say they are all interrelated, therefore it doesn’t matter where you begin, because if you begin at one point it’ll all come together—now begin... where would you begin?
7:32	Q: I would begin with relationship, sir, with relationship.
7:39	K: With? Suseela…
7:41	Q: Wouldn’t you have to sort of find out if they were true or false relationships?
7:50	Wouldn’t you have to discern? (Inaudible) K: No, we are asking, if they are all related, as apparently they are—they say so—where would you begin, where is the point, or something? There is a whole line, curving line, where would you begin?
8:00	Q: Well, the other day you mentioned the word ‘dharma,’ and you said, you know, everyone has their own talent.
8:08	K: No, I didn’t say ‘their own talent’. Please, no…
8:12	Q: Well, I mean, so if they started with what you’re interested in, it would lead to the...
8:19	K: I’m asking you now, sir, would you begin... say for instance, there is this whole field: thought, relationship, career and love.
8:42	Where is the starting point? From where do you jump?
8:46	Q: I would begin with relationships, because...
8:49	K: Wait a minute, go slowly, think it out. You say you’d begin with relationship. What do you say?
8:59	Q: Thought.
9:02	K: Thought.
9:04	Q: Love.
9:06	K: Thought, relationship—come on, join in the game, don’t just sit quietly.
9:13	Let’s have some fun!
9:14	Q: I would begin by looking at thought, because that’s seems...
9:20	K: Thought, the same thing.
9:23	Q: ...where most of my confusion is.
9:25	K: So you’d begin with thought.
9:28	Q: So far all these things are concepts. We are going to learn about them.
9:35	K: Yes, so…
9:36	Q: And they are the product of the mind.
9:38	K: Concepts or a reality or truth, where... You say, again, thought, mind.
9:45	Q: What about learning? We want to learn about all these.
9:51	K: You learn. You learn about... you want to learn about all these things, don’t you? Is that it?
9:58	Q: Yes.
10:00	K: Right, if you want to learn about all these things, how are you going to learn about it—from there or from here?
10:12	You know what I mean? From a book, from a professor, from a psychologist, from a doctor, and so on, and so on—where?
10:27	Q: Wouldn’t it have to be a two-way movement?
10:40	K: Yes, my dear lady, but I’m asking you. You’re missing the point. I don’t want to point it out to you. You are missing the point. Go on, attack it!
10:49	Q: It seems necessary to be able to see clearly, if you’re going to learn about yourself.
10:59	K: I agree, (laughs) but to see clearly this, that means to learn about all this clearly, where do you learn?
11:09	From where… point do you learn?
11:11	Q: You most likely have to learn this from yourself.
11:19	K: Which means what?
11:23	Q: Which means if there is a certain situation you’re in, or any situation, if you experience...
11:26	K: No, no, which means... No, don’t... You’ve got some… a perfume of it. Hold onto it, don’t let it go with a lot of words. You say, ‘I want to learn about all this.’ Right? Where do you start?
11:45	Q: From yourself.
11:46	K: From yourself. That’s all. Don’t you? Because you have to have a career or a job or a profession; you must learn about relationship; you must learn about what is the whole movement of thinking; and what is love, and so on.
12:14	And you have to learn. That means I have to have a mind capable of learning. Right? Learning, we said, must be curious, have enough energy to carry that curiosity to its very end, and attention.
12:32	That is, have you got this before you begin to learn?
12:41	You understand what I’m talking about? I want to learn about how to run that car. I must look at it, be taught about it, learn, drive, you know… and so on, and so on.
12:54	I must have the energy to do it. Right? Have you? (Laughs) To learn about what you are going to do in your life. If you’re a girl you might get married, or you might go into a profession—that might be your profession - bear children, marry and all the rest of it.
13:22	Or you might want to find… learn about relationship. What is a relationship? Our whole society is based on relationship. Then what is thinking? Why does one think this way, or why doesn’t one think that way?
13:46	You follow? Or you want to find out the depth and the meaning of what is called love.
13:55	And for that you must have energy to learn. Right? Oh, for goodness sake, come on.
14:06	And that means, will you give time to cultivate this energy?
14:17	You see, I’m really interested to learn about this thing, so I must spend time, I must discuss, I must go into it, I must be capable of understanding what we say to each other.
14:37	You follow? Will you go along that movement, or just say, ‘Well, tell me all about it,’ and I go out and forget it?
14:48	You understand what I’m talking? If you have that, let’s begin. I hope you have it, for your own sake, because this is what you’re going to face: career, relationship, thinking, love.
15:03	This is your field of life. So let’s begin. I want to learn about career.
15:20	It takes a great deal of energy, doesn’t it, a great deal of learning, technologically; I must have a very good capacity to carry out what I have learnt.
15:38	Are you following all this? I must have a certain drive, because as I told you, thousands of people want that particular job, and if you haven’t got that energy, the capacity, the learning, they throw you out.
16:07	You just go - you know? You have to face that. Not be depressed about it but learn about it. So what will you do?
16:20	Q: Well, I would say that if you want to, if you’re going to have the drive for that job, you’re going to want to most likely learn how you can make it enjoyable for you.
16:35	K: So that means you must have energy, drive, attention, not say, ‘Well, I will just moon about, casually study, and hope to God that some luck will turn up and I’ll get a job.’ You’re faced with this.
17:01	Don’t misunderstand, you’re going to face this most violently.
17:05	Q: The drive will be there. If you want to say, ‘Okay, I want to take this job and it’s just going to be a bore for me if I...’ K: But you’ve got to do it.
17:19	Wait, wait, listen carefully. That means you’re going to give your energy, all your energy to that.
17:26	Q: Yes.
17:27	K: Wait. Listen to it! Listen, listen, old boy, listen quietly, find out. Criticise after I’ve finished. You must criticise. Don’t accept anything, don’t just swallow everything; be sceptical, ask questions.
17:48	Don’t say, ‘Well, tell me all about it,’ and sit back.
17:57	See what is implied. You have to spend all your days in your youth, you have to give your energy.
18:08	It may be boring but you’ve got to face it.
18:15	And also you have to face your relationship, with your boss, with your - relationship with everything.
18:24	Right? And also you have to find out what thinking is, what love is. So the whole thing demands energy, demands that you be serious, attentive and have an integrity.
18:51	You follow? Not just, ‘Well, I don’t care’—turn cynical or brutal or...
19:00	You have to have integrity to say, ‘This is what I want to do and I’m going to do it.
19:07	Nothing is going to deviate me.’ So, see what is implied in learning a livelihood.
19:26	The world is overpopulated. For one job there are a thousand people, so you must excel.
19:40	You understand? Now, excellency means to excel, to go swiftly forward.
19:55	Right, sir? It comes from the word ‘cellere’, Latin, to go swiftly.
20:06	You must excel, not compete in excellence. I don’t know if you understand this. Do you? Then it’s not excellence. If I’m competing with you, you may be mediocre and I may be mediocre; I may be slightly better, but we are still mediocre.
20:30	I wonder if you see this. Therefore in excellence there is no competition. I wonder if you get this.
20:44	I played golf. Sorry to talk about myself just a little. I was sometimes plus 3, 2, or 4. You know what that means? Going beyond the par, beyond the—what is it called? You know. You’ve never played golf, any of you?
21:07	Q: Par.
21:09	K: Par, yes. I went three, sometimes four, sometimes two beyond, or below. Below par, sorry.
21:18	MZ: Beyond or beneath par, under par?
21:22	K: Suppose par is 69, under par is 67 or 65— you follow?—that’s graded. I never competed, because the moment I competed I couldn’t do anything, I failed, I couldn’t...
21:37	but I wanted to do the very best I could, and forgot the rest. I don’t care whether you’re better than me—probably you are.
21:51	So excellence implies swiftly moving.
22:01	It may mean beyond others, but you’re not competing with others. I don’t know if I’m... you understand what I’m saying? Do you get it?
22:09	Q: The word ‘excellence’ arrives from ‘excellere’, it is a related term.
22:15	K: It comes from the word ‘cellere’ in Latin, which means swift, to do things swiftly, to think swiftly, to perceive swiftly, to act swiftly and therefore skilfully—all that’s implied.
22:34	Q: (Inaudible) K: No, no, there is no standard. The moment you have a standard, you are competing with that standard. I’ve made that very clear. The moment there is a competitive spirit, excellence ceases.
22:56	I wonder if you get this. Do you? Just learn about it, criticise it. You understand? See if what the speaker is saying is real, or false, or something...
23:13	He thinks it out. Think it out. If I compete with you in mathematics, what is important in this competition between you and me in mathematics?
23:31	Come on, sir, answer it.
23:34	Q: But you sort of don’t have a partial relationship.
23:37	K: Sit properly, then you’ll give energy to it.
23:40	Q: I feel it’s not like at a yoga level, and… (inaudible) K: Sir, if I’m mediocre—what does that word mean, ‘mediocre’?
24:03	Q: Ordinary.
24:05	K: Ordinary. The ordinary person is always competing with somebody else or other. If you are not competing but be excellent, then you’re out of the mediocre. I wonder if you get this. Q. Sir, if I am mediocre and competing, then I am not interested in mathematics but interested in trying to be better than someone else.
24:31	K: Better than X—that’s right. So, bearing in mind that the world is overpopulated, that there are a thousand people for one job, and if you want to excel in your job or profession, you must be... you must run swiftly beyond all the others.
24:59	Which is not competition, which is not an Olympic game. You understand? So, to have a career, a profession, you have to study furiously and be excellent at it.
25:22	Right? Are you going to do that? No. Are you?
25:28	Q: Isn’t it, by the reasoning that...
25:33	K: Tungki, listen to what I’ve said: are you going to excel non-competitively?
25:40	Q: I don’t quite see, because if I’ve been saying that the world is certain, there is only one in a thousand, already the mind has a picture of...
25:55	K: No, no, Tungki.
25:56	Q: ...you have to be better than most others.
26:00	K: See, the picture first, Tungki, not details of it. See the picture, which is, the world is overpopulated.
26:09	Right? For every job there are two, ten thousand people. There are strikes, the pound is going down - terrible things are happening in the world.
26:28	And in this world, if you want to have a job you must excel, go beyond everybody, not say, ‘Well, I am better than that, than him.’ There is no ‘better’ in excellence: you are excellent.
26:40	Q: It’s not true, to get a job. It’s not true. Many people get a job because their uncle owns the firm, many people get a job because they are willing to do what the boss requires.
26:55	In a sense, what you are painting is...
26:57	K: Wait a minute. Unless you are privileged, unless you have a certain talent, then you become a labourer, become a factory man.
27:05	Q: Yes, but I’ve seen many people who are in positions of influence, in terms of owning companies and what have you, have not gotten there on merit and excellence.
27:20	K: I don’t understand, sorry.
27:22	Q: Many people who have - let’s say, many people who have gotten into positions of great power...
27:28	K: I’m not talking of many people, I’m talking of you. Many people—good God, we don’t know their lives, how they got up there.
27:35	Q: Yes, but that is the fact, though. They have gotten to their position through corruption.
27:44	K: They might have got it there through crookedness, through influence, through cunning, through talent, through various means. We are not talking of the people who have reached something. I am asking you, who are the students here facing a world that’s overpopulated, everything is in a terrible state, to go beyond all this.
27:58	Q: But in parallel, getting a job. I mean, if you say… You know that you are excellent in something, it’s quite apparent to anyone who’s willing to look that you are excellent.
28:10	But that does not mean that you’ll get a job.
28:15	K: No, I am not interested. Please just... Of course you may be an excellent engineer, but my neighbour has got friend whose cook is a friend of the prime minister’s cook and he talks, and gets a job.
28:31	Q: Exactly.
28:32	K: We’re not talking of that. That’s pure luck and misery, if you can’t get it. This is what is happening in the world. So what will you do?
28:42	Q: But, I mean, we just said there’ll be thousands of people waiting for that job, and unless you’re excellent you won’t be picked.
28:49	And that doesn’t necessarily... (inaudible) K: That is not… My lady, that’s only implied in the sense, you may get a job or you may not get a job, even though you are excellent—and so on.
29:01	Q: Krishnaji, what’s wrong with being a labourer?
29:09	K: I don’t say that. I didn’t say that anything is wrong. If you are good at labour, you excel there. You excel wherever you are. You may be a marvellous writer—excel.
29:24	Q: I think it’s confusing, Krishnaji, to bring in the possibility of a job. Excellence, despite the jobs or anything else, in whatever you do.
29:31	K: I’m coming to that. Slowly, let’s evolve it, examine it.
29:33	Q: Well, for some people that I have met, they are, when you look at them, they seem to be very excellent, but the energy that they used to get there is often neurotic.
29:53	K: Quite. Therefore I’m attacking it, sir, I’m thinking it out. The quality of energy, that’s what I want to get at. You follow? You understand? No, you don’t understand, you’re all so sleepy, come on. (Laughs) Q: Could Joe expand what he meant, because I didn’t follow it at all.
30:22	Q: I’ve met people who because of their insecurity—just for one illustration—they feel that they have to be excellent, in that sense, that they have to be superior, which means that they have...
30:39	K: No, I object to the world ‘superior’. Excellence is not superior.
30:42	Q: But if you have to be excellent then it speaks in a different note entirely.
30:47	Q: It does, yes. So that a person may be sitting here and say, ‘Yes, I want to be excellent, I want to be what you say,’ but it requires, to my mind, a careful insight to see if that excellence is without motive, or however you want to put it.
31:05	K: Of course, of course, of course.
31:07	Q: Or is it just a disguise of ambition?
31:12	K: So, sir, that’s what we are saying. Are you prepared, the students here, are we prepared to meet a life, the world, and go and be excellent in the sense which we are talking about?
31:33	You may not get a job, or you might get a job, but if you are excellent at something, you’ll... You follow?
31:39	Q: There’s another problem. Like Tungki may say to me, ‘I want to be excellent at physics,’ and...
31:48	K: Ah, you’re competing with yourself. Instead of competing with somebody else, you’re competing, saying, ‘I must be excellent.’ You follow? No?
31:58	Q: Well, that’s the... I was trying to...
32:03	K: Sir, look…
32:05	Q: Sir, this excellence of which you speak is a very serious kind of excellence.
32:14	I don’t think it’s clear exactly what you mean.
32:17	K: We can make it clear as we talk about it. Do you have the competitive spirit?
32:31	Competing with somebody, in games, in books, you know, the feeling that you must compete and be aggressive and advance—have you got that spirit?
32:46	Q: I think there is.
32:50	K: I’m asking you—not ‘there is’. Have you got... Tungki, answer a question directly.
32:59	Q: For me, yes.
33:02	K: Why are you competitive?
33:13	In which is implied aggressiveness, trying to beat somebody to be ahead.
33:23	Q: I want to be somebody.
33:26	K: No, what does that mean? Just learn about it. For goodness sake, I’m not telling you you should or should not be competitive; I’m telling you, learn about it, find out what is implied in that word, in that feeling, in all that.
33:48	If you say, ‘I’m not competitive,’ then why aren’t you? Is it laziness? Is it just you say, ‘Well, I don’t care if I am a doormat, they can all go ahead’?
34:02	Find out, learn. If you are competitive, apparently as you are, why are you, and what is implied in that?
34:15	Q: I think in some areas I see that I’m unique, and therefore I’ve no need to compete. In other areas, I’m very uncertain and I don’t know who I am at all.
34:26	K: So you are unique… so in one field, one segment of life you are unique?
34:36	Q: Only because maybe I’ve explored that more, but it seems to have many levels.
34:46	K: Are you unique? Not you, madame, I’m sorry. Are you unique? That means one, and nobody like you. That’s what uniqueness means. Are you? There are millions like you, aren’t there?
35:00	Q: Yes.
35:02	Q: Maybe we’re antique. (Laughter) K: So please, sir, learn—why are you competitive?
35:17	Is it because you are conditioned that way; you see around you everybody being competitive, aggressive, ruthless, brutal?
35:26	Q: You find this when your younger, in the high school.
35:35	K: I know. Is that your conditioning?
35:39	Q: Yes.
35:40	K: So—wait, listen carefully—if that is your conditioning, is that conditioning good? Good in the sense, not metaphysically or sociologically—is that conditioning helping mankind?
36:02	Q: Well, it’s not helping you.
36:09	K: And you are a human being. Does it help you as a human being to grow, you know, all the rest of it?
36:20	Q: I don’t think so.
36:22	K: Therefore why are you allowing yourself to be conditioned and follow that movement of competitiveness?
36:35	I am conditioned—just a minute, sir—I am conditioned as a British, as a Frenchman, as an Indian, and I see it is silly, being conditioned, so I drop it.
36:51	So I drop, with my conditioning, competitiveness, because that’s part of the whole social structure.
37:00	And I see how absurd the thing is, how brutal it is, and I drop it. Will you drop it if you see it?
37:07	Q: If I see it I’ll drop it, but my seeing is never deep enough.
37:15	K: Now... so if you see it - all right. Now what do you mean by seeing? You are learning. Did you see how those bricks are laid outside the room, have you watched it, or you haven’t seen it at all?
37:39	You know those bricks out there? Have you noticed it? Have you? No. Why? Have you seen the pattern of it, how it’s beautifully laid, how carefully—you follow?—the whole of it. Have you seen it? Have you observed the workmen working at it? So you don’t see obvious things—right?—and you want to see your conditioning.
38:19	If you don’t notice something out there, how will you notice the much more complex thing in here?
38:27	Right? So learn. So you have to look there clearly, and also you have to look here, inside.
38:38	Q: What about the mechanics of those types of seeing? The mechanics of seeing. If I watch the bricklayers lay the bricks, I may say, ‘Aha, yes, yes,’ and may store the information for... (inaudible) K: No, I’m not storing information, I’m just watching, their movement, the way they put the bricks, the cement.
38:53	Q: But there is some learning taking place: ‘Oh, that’s how they...’ K: I’m watching, I’m not learning.
39:00	Please, just listen to what I have to say. I’m watching, I’m not learning. I’m watching that bird building a nest. But when I have to lay the bricks, to do what he’s doing, then I pick the—what is that?
39:20	Q: Trowel.
39:22	K: And put the cement properly as he does—it takes time, learn the technique.
39:27	Q: But how did you know what to do?
39:30	K: I’m not talking ‘how to do’, I’m just watching. I’m not doing. The doing comes after: watching, learning and doing.
39:44	I can’t do, I can’t build a house, but I’ve seen people build a house, I’ve seen this structure, this assembly hall being built.
39:56	But if I have to build it, if I become an architect and all the rest of it, I have to spend time.
40:04	And I would be… I would excel. I want to excel.
40:07	Q: So, do you mean that when you’re seeing something it’s not with the motive of storing information?
40:13	K: No, of course not. First, that’s what I’m saying.
40:16	Q: It’s a mechanical seeing, then. I mean, just as your eye is taking in information as to what you’re seeing, you have some response in your visual cortex to the colours, whatever you’re seeing.
40:30	Now, I mean, obviously in the physiological process of that, isn’t there not some storage of the visual impact going on?
40:37	K: Not yet, not yet. Please, I may be cuckoo, but just watch what I’m saying. I see the bricklayer laying it, how he does it, how he bends it - he has been doing it all his life, his back is curved, poor chap—and he does it very carefully, methodically, attentively.
41:03	And if I want to do the same thing, I learn from him. Then I store up. Then it becomes a memory and I respond according to that memory all the time. That’s a different... What I’m trying to say is, do you see your conditioning, not what to do?
41:27	You understand? If you are conditioned to compete and you say, ‘Yes, I’ve been conditioned from childhood, in school, marks, grades, comparing A to B, and my father saying I must get ahead of that man, at home, and reading papers and saying, “This man, who was a bricklayer, now becomes the prime minister,”‘ and—you follow?—the whole movement of competition.
42:04	And you are the result of that, because you’re brought up that way. Now, do you see it? Not what to do about the conditioning. First, are you aware of the conditioning?
42:19	Q: When you say ‘aware of conditioning’, do you mean aware of actual facts?
42:32	K: Actual facts.
42:33	Q: Not just the abstract... (inaudible) K: No, the actual fact that I’ve been to school, grades—you follow?—all that, and the parents and the society has conditioned me to compete.
42:46	That’s a fact. Are you aware of this fact?
42:53	Q: Well, have we been conditioned not to pay attention to, say, the things around us, or have we been conditioned to put our attention somewhere else?
43:04	K: That’s right: put our attention somewhere else, in here, me the most important.
43:09	Q: Right, I see. If I say, ‘Well, you know, that man is right, I should go and...’ K: There is no ‘should’—that’s what I’m trying to avoid, trying to prevent you from saying ‘should’.
43:25	I say, first watch, be aware, see that you are conditioned.
43:32	Right? Do you see you are conditioned? Come on, sirs.
43:37	Q: It’s more complex than that.
43:40	K: Tungki, it’s much more complex. I’ll tell you all about it if you want to, but don’t begin with the complexity.
43:51	There is this. Are you conditioned, as an Indonesian, as this, Chinese, this, and all that? Are you conditioned? Don’t be in the content of that conditioning.
44:04	Q: No. Referring back to that competition, there is somehow... one gets into the living of a certain structure, but then when we go out of that structure there is somehow fear whether you...
44:31	K: I’m talking to you now. (Laughs) Are you aware, do you see you are conditioned to compete?
44:43	You are competitive, aren’t you? You said yes. So you are conditioned.
44:49	Q: Yes.
44:51	K: That’s all. (Laughs) If you’re conditioned, do you see that, are you aware of it, are you conscious of your conditioning?
45:05	That when you compete with me you are competing because you have been through school, college, university, society has shaped your mind to compete with me.
45:19	Do you see that?
45:30	Of course you see it, don’t you?
45:32	Q: Yes, but…
45:34	K: You see, a ‘but’! You go... I’m making a very simple fact, then we can add other facts to it.
45:44	When you play games, when you do things, do you compete with others?
45:52	Of course you do. My Lord! No?
45:55	Q: Yes.
45:57	K: Of course.
45:59	Q: But the situation is such, it’s like if you have to go into a cold shower, you see that... (inaudible) K: No, I’m not going to a cold shower now.
46:09	Q: No, it’s a simile.
46:11	K: I never go into a cold shower, I’m too... my blood pressure’s too low. (Laughs) Q: It’s like you see it somehow, the necessity in a certain...
46:20	K: But, Tungki, I’m not...
46:23	Q: (Inaudible) …there to act.
46:25	K: Tungki, darling, I’m not talking about acting. I am saying, are you aware, do you know, are you conscious that you are conditioned and your conditioning is to compete with another?
46:42	That’s all.
46:43	Q: Yes.
46:44	K: That’s all. Say yes, which is a fact.
46:46	Q: Sir, supposing I want to say no, I mean...
46:50	K: Ah no, don’t say... if you are... Suppose you say no?
46:53	Q: No, well, supposedly I’m not. (Laughter) I’ve heard you ask that question God knows how many times, and every time you asked it something in me was not wanting to say yes.
47:06	Every time you ask that question something in me is not wanting to say yes, because...
47:08	K: No, no, are you aware of it? I’m not asking you yes or no. Do I know I’m slightly brown, not so bloodless as you?
47:23	(Laughs) Of course. I’ve got light brown hands, which is different from yours.
47:34	That’s all I’m saying. Then if you are aware that you’re conditioned, then learn about it. Why are you conditioned, has it any value, has it any significance, what it does to human beings.
47:53	Q: What damage it does.
47:55	K: What damage it has done, what good it has done, or... you know, all the rest of it. Learn about it, don’t say yes or no.
48:11	(Pause) No?
48:14	Q: I still don’t understand.
48:19	K: I haven’t answered your question?
48:23	Q: He says he feels he’s not competitive.
48:25	K: He feels he’s not competitive. Is that it?
48:27	Q: I don’t really know whether... what it feels like being competitive. I mean...
48:35	K: You don’t know what it means to be competitive?
48:40	Q: No, I don’t know what it feels like.
48:49	I don’t know whether I’m being competitive or not, in something.
48:51	K: I can’t follow you. I don’t understand.
48:53	Q: I don’t know whether I’m being competitive or not in something.
48:54	K: Ah, wait a minute, sir. That’s fairly easy. Don’t you compare yourself with somebody else?
48:57	Q: He hates to say no, but...
49:03	K: No, if I am a writer, I might compare myself with Dickens or Aldous Huxley or Bernard Shaw or Shakespeare.
49:20	If I compared myself when I played golf to a man who was then - who was it?
49:29	Somebody who...
49:30	Q: Ben Holden.
49:32	K: When I played golf Ben Holden didn’t exist.
49:39	(Laughter) Harry Vardon was my...
49:46	Now, if I compared myself, say, ‘My God, how good he is, I can’t be as good as him,’ I would be depressed and lost.
49:54	I didn’t care, I wanted to play a good game. Come on, sir, answer my question. Are you aware that you’re conditioned? If you say, ‘I don’t know if I am or not,’ then find out during the day if you’re competitive.
50:15	When you look at yourself in a mirror and say, ‘By Jove, I’m not as good looking as I thought, or because… somebody else,’ or that you’re not good at mathematics, that somebody else is better, and so on, all that is the spirit of competition.
50:31	I’m afraid most people have it.
50:38	And I say learn about it, look at it, see the contours of it, the structure of it, the nature of it, what it involves, why human beings are competitive, commercially what it has done.
51:08	In a strange way it has produced wars.
51:17	Competitively in religion, Christianity with: ‘Jesus is the only saviour, we are far superior to those heathens out there.’ I won’t go into all the details of it.
51:36	So if you are aware that you are conditioned, don’t say it’s bad or good to be conditioned but learn about it, go into it.
51:47	Are you willing to go into it now? (Laughs) You’re all so casual, so sleepy.
51:58	Q: Is keeping score in golf competitive? If you keep score…
52:00	K: No, I kept score.
52:04	Q: Ah, you did keep score.
52:09	K: I did.
52:11	Q: Why?
52:12	K: Because I wanted to each day say, ‘Well, I’m...’ I wanted to be excellent.
52:18	Q: But you were competing with yourself then, no?
52:21	K: No, no. I wanted to play each stroke as well as I could.
52:26	Q: Well then why count it though? Because that’s part of golf?
52:30	K: That’s part of the game.
52:31	Q: Part of the game too is to compete.
52:33	K: No, no, part of the game... No, no, I know your trick, you’re going to catch me. (Laughs) Q: But isn’t it any instrument in a...
52:45	Mostly, any game is made in being competitive.
52:51	K: When you play volleyball—and I’ve played badminton and so on—are you competitive?
53:01	Or you don’t want to miss that ball at that moment, you want to do it as well as you can.
53:09	You’re not thinking, ‘Oh, they’re better than me and I must play to beat them.’ You haven’t time, your whole energy’s taken in playing at that moment with that ball, throw it over the net.
53:23	Q: But there is no scoring in... (inaudible) K: For God’s sake!
53:28	Q: (Inaudible) K: He introduced, Mr Joe introduced it, to catch me. You see?
53:35	Q: No, but I noticed myself once. I was playing with a stranger and when we are knocking… warming up, it’s so easy, but when the game has to start and there is scoring then I become so nervous.
53:47	K: Ah, then you want to beat the bird, beat the man. So, now, wait a minute. Oh, my gosh, you people!
53:52	Q: Yesterday we had a football game with the farm boys and for the first half of the game the farm boys were best, one point against our none.
54:11	And then after the half…
54:13	Q: 6-2! (Laughs) Q: …somehow something happened to the people who score the goals, the forwards.
54:21	They calmed down or something, but they started scoring a lot of goals, one man after the other.
54:29	K: Yes, sir. So… You see, we don’t advance, we don’t move.
54:39	Q: May I ask you, this afternoon we shall have a class and many people will come.
54:47	And in fact mine will be a drawing class, and many people will sit and dream, and there will be no excellence, not even for a second at a time.
55:04	K: Yes.
55:04	Q: Throughout the whole afternoon.
55:06	K: Yes.
55:07	Q: Now, that is the reality that will happen this afternoon.
55:10	K: I come to your class and I’m dreaming.
55:14	Q: And I am dreaming too. I mean it’s not just... We all do.
55:18	K: So what do we do? It may be nice to dream in a class.
55:23	Q: Well, obviously it is.
55:25	K: And so I tell them, ‘Go on dreaming for a little while, old boy, but we’re all here to learn to draw.’ Q: Then what?
55:35	K: Learn!
55:37	Q: Well...
55:38	K: You’re all saying, ‘Then what?’ The very learning is the acting.
55:46	Q: But the fact is that there are no excellent drawers in this community.
55:53	K: I know that, you don’t have to...
55:55	Q: I mean, no one! (Laughter) K: They draw water but not draw anything else!
56:10	You see, you know that all this implies we’re not very sensitive.
56:21	Right? We are sensitive to our own desires and wants, we’re not sensitive per se, for itself.
56:32	I’m sensitive to, I don’t know, something—but the feeling of being sensitive to nature, to birds, to drawing, to pictures, to the curtain, you know, the proportions of this hall.
56:54	What shall we do? Do you really want to learn about competition?
57:06	Do you really want to learn about relationship? Do you really want to learn what thinking is? Do you really want to find out what love is? Are you really interested in all this, or very casually say, ‘Yes, let’s talk about it’?
57:24	Are you?
57:26	Q: Yes, I want to learn.
57:32	Q: Yes.
57:33	K: Now, what will you do about it? Will you pay me?
57:38	Q: No.
57:39	K: Then how will you learn?
57:40	Q: I will learn myself.
57:41	K: Are you learning from yourself?
57:42	Q: Well, I don’t know how much I learn.
57:43	K: Can you learn by yourself?
57:47	Q: I think so, in a way.
57:53	K: Ah, you can only learn in your relationship with another what you are.
58:00	You can’t just imagine, ‘I am glorious’ or ‘I am inferior,’ ‘I am superior,’ ‘I am conceited.’ You only learn in action of relationship.
58:11	Q: The fact is that my action—I observe the action and learn from that action, but…
58:25	(inaudible) …learn.
58:26	K: That means, sir, to learn anything you must act, mustn’t you? You must pay, in the sense you must give something in return for learning.
58:39	You come here, your parents sent you here, and they pay for you to learn—mathematics plus something else.
58:48	So you must be prepared to give something.
58:52	Q: Effort.
58:54	K: Ah, not effort. You see? We always reduce to effort and action. Give! No, wait, Tungki, I haven’t finished with him, hold on a minute. Are you... when I said, ‘Will you pay me?’ I meant in that sense. Will you give something? What do you give?
59:17	Q: My wish to learn.
59:19	Q: Patience.
59:20	K: Ah, not ‘wish to’—you see, you’re missing my point! Your wish to learn is like, your father sent you here, your parents, and you pay money and you wish to learn. But I’m talking of different kind of...
59:31	Q: No.
59:33	K: Look, sir, I want to learn about relationship, about competitiveness.
59:42	I must give something to learn.
59:50	You know the whole idea of lighting a candle in a church is to give something to God or to whatever you worship, from yourself.
1:00:02	Not buy a candle with tuppence and then light it, it is a symbol that you are giving something in return for something else.
1:00:13	Are you doing that?
1:00:15	Q: I’m giving my…
1:00:16	K: Not ‘your best’—you’ve got to do it! You know, people go, take a long journey in an aeroplane, paying lots of money to go to learn Zen, in Japan.
1:00:33	They pay for it, to learn. And are you prepared to pay? Not money, not something in coin or in sacrament—pay, give something, say, ‘Well, I’m willing to give you my heart to learn’?
1:00:54	Q: Or as Jean says, your attention.
1:01:00	Q: Energy.
1:01:01	Q: Attention to learn.
1:01:05	K: Which is, that you are giving.
1:01:08	Q: Yes, I mean you’re...
1:01:10	K: You say, ‘Right, I’ll give you my attention.’ That’s all I’m asking. Do you give your attention, or do you say, ‘Well, I’m awfully sorry, tell me all about it, old boy, will you?’ (Laughter) That’s what you do.
1:01:24	Q: Or the reverse: I don’t want to know about it, I would rather stay in what I know.
1:01:33	K: Then you’re... then what I know is very little, then I’ll remain stupid.
1:01:42	Q: Yes, but...
1:01:43	K: I mean, that’s the essence of bourgeosism—middle-class, whatever it is.
1:01:50	If you want to learn, you must give attention. Are you prepared to give attention? Do you know Dr Parchure?
1:02:05	You’ve all met him, haven’t you now? He’s from India, from Rishi Valley. I’ve known him for several years and he has taught me yoga, he’s taught me breathing.
1:02:18	I gave something to it, I gave my attention, I listened very carefully.
1:02:26	For day after day I did it, for several months, while I was in India. He was with me, travelling with me and so on, helping—I gave time, energy, attention, love, all that I have, to find out.
1:02:41	Right, sir? Are you doing that? That’s the only way to learn. Now, I’ve learnt from a dancer—first-class dancer, ballet dancer; from Italian captain of the Alpinisti, who are supposed to be excellent in walking, four kilometres with their weight, up and the down hills.
1:03:19	He’s a friend of mine. I learnt from him. And he said, ‘To walk properly, watch me.’ I walked with him, miles in Italy.
1:03:33	And this dancer showed me how to—you follow? I learnt, I paid attention—that you must keep your upper part of your body completely still when you’re walking.
1:03:47	Not be... you know?
1:03:49	Q: The dancer showed you how to walk?
1:03:55	K: He showed me. And the Italian captain, or colonel, whatever he was, he showed me. I walked with the regiment. They allowed me to walk with him.
1:04:06	Q: But you wanted to learn.
1:04:10	K: If I want to do something, I give my energy to it.
1:04:14	Q: But you wanted to learn, you want to learn.
1:04:18	K: If you don’t want to learn, why the heck are you here?
1:04:31	Just to pass the time of day? You’re learning mathematics, you’re learning physics, you’re learning about biology or whatever it is, and why aren’t you learning about this too?
1:04:43	So, what shall we do? I say, please pay me your attention, give me your attention.
1:04:57	That’s all I’m asking. That’s your pay, that’s the coin you give me when I ask you, ‘Please be good enough to pay attention.’ If you say, ‘Well, I’m sorry, I’m not interested,’ then walk out—I don’t care, I can go out of this room too.
1:05:25	Having stated that, if you are interested, it’s up to you—I’m not going to press it any more.
1:05:32	Now, are you willing to learn about conditioning that makes you competitive, that makes you think in one way, that makes you feel your opinions are so superior, all your judgements—do you want to learn about all this?
1:05:53	Q: Yes.
1:05:55	K: Take one thing: why do you have opinions?
1:06:02	Come on, sirs, come on.
1:06:12	This is learning about it. Why do you have opinions? ‘Oh, he’s right, he’s wrong,’ ‘This book should be that way,’ ‘I must do this.’ You follow? Why do you have opinions? Have you ever questioned it?
1:06:32	Q: You feel empty without them.
1:06:36	K: You feel empty without them? Is that why you have opinions?
1:06:41	Q: I…
1:06:43	K: Tungki, listen to what he said first before you…
1:06:50	Find out what he said. He said, ‘I have opinions because if I haven’t got them I feel empty,’ therefore I fill that emptiness with opinions, with conclusions, with what people have told me.
1:07:08	‘This book is right,’ ‘It should have been written that way,’ ‘This is totally wrong, it should not be put out,’ ‘It should be this, it should be that’—why?
1:07:17	Q: Because we’ve been conditioned this way.
1:07:25	K: Are you conditioned to have opinions?
1:07:31	Q: It becomes more than that, it becomes the way you guide your life, what you see, what you don’t see, all the choices you make.
1:07:40	K: But why do you offer your opinions? As a pastime? As when there is silence in the room, you say, ‘Well, I’ll offer an opinion’? Why have opinions? ‘My opinion is superior to yours.’ You follow?
1:08:03	Why? Go into it, please.
1:08:05	Q: Why have them or why do people have them?
1:08:09	K: Why do people have them, why do they cling to them, why do they assert it?
1:08:14	Q: Because it’s my security, it’s my self, it’s how I see the world.
1:08:24	K: So you are learning about opinions. If you’re learning about opinions, how have these opinions been formed, who has formed them?
1:08:39	Your vanity, your inferiority, or your conditioning? Because everybody has dozens of opinions about everything. ‘This room should be built this way, that wall should be that colour.’ You follow?
1:09:02	Go on, sir, why do you have opinions?
1:09:03	Q: I reinforce them every day.
1:09:07	K: No, you’re not... Examine it, go into it, give your attention to find out why human beings crowd their mind with opinions.
1:09:21	Q: Because it gives them a sense of authority, of position; it gives them security.
1:09:33	K: That’s right—partly authority; as he said, emptiness, fill it up—go on, learn, move!
1:09:43	Q: A sense of being somebody.
1:09:46	K: Yes. If I can say, ‘Well, Bernard Shaw said that’—by Jove, I’ve read Bernard Shaw!
1:09:58	Now I’m asking the next question: is it possible not to have opinions at all?
1:10:09	I know why you have them, first because it’s part of our conditioning; we have them because everybody around me has opinions, and if I have no opinions they think I’m a damn fool; and if I can assert an opinion with authority, because I have read Shakespeare, this, that and the other, science: ‘By Jove, he’s such a big man, he knows a great deal,’ and so I feel secure.
1:10:43	Now, what would happen if you had no opinions? Come on, sirs. You’re full of opinions, aren’t you, judgements?
1:10:59	Bene? Are you?
1:11:02	Q: Probably.
1:11:04	K: Not probably—are you?
1:11:07	Q: I can’t say.
1:11:08	K: Oh my God, what do you mean you can’t say? Don’t you judge people?
1:11:14	Q: Yes, sometimes.
1:11:16	K: When you judge people sometimes, why do you judge them?
1:11:24	And how is it that you are capable of judging somebody?
1:11:27	Q: Well, I can’t say... (inaudible) K: But you judge them—why?
1:11:31	Q: Well, it comes from... it’s instinctive.
1:11:33	Q: Doesn’t it spring in part from some sorting-out process that we all do when we are given a lot of facts—you try to evaluate the facts.
1:11:45	Say there are conflicting theories about them or conflicting information about them—you try to sort it out.
1:11:57	K: Wait, I understand. A computer has no opinions. Right, sir?
1:12:02	Q: No, but the computer can sort...
1:12:05	K: Just see. No, the computer has no opinions, it has only memory and facts and giving that memory out.
1:12:15	That’s all. Not opinions.
1:12:17	Q: No, but it works according to its memory pattern.
1:12:18	K: That’s memory pattern. But if you gave it an opinion, it would repeat that opinion.
1:12:21	Q: Yes, but I think probably... (inaudible) K: Wait, just go into it.
1:12:27	Q: What happens with a human being?
1:12:31	K: That’s what... you’re not going to... that’s what I want to...
1:12:38	A computer, you feed it and it will repeat what it has been fed.
1:12:48	If you feed it opinions, it will give you opinions. Now, we form opinions without facts.
1:12:58	Q: Well, we started with...
1:13:02	K: I don’t know—wait a minute—I don’t know anything about Brezhnev, but I’ve read papers all about it, and I say, ‘By Jove, what a horrible man’—finished.
1:13:13	Q: Yes, sir.
1:13:14	Q: Those may be false facts, but still the operation of your thinking takes those things you’ve read and...
1:13:22	K: Now, that’s exactly it. That is, the computer repeats what it has been fed.
1:13:33	If you feed it and tell it that it is my sponge, it takes your ‘my sponge.’ But when it says, ‘My sponge,’ there is no attachment to that sponge.
1:13:45	Right? Right? Are you following this? Are you following this, Tungki?
1:13:52	Q: So you mean…
1:13:55	K: I mean this: you tell the computer, you feed the computer and tell the computer, ‘It’s my car,’ and the computer repeats it, ‘It is my car.’ When it says, ‘It’s my car,’ there is no attachment to the car.
1:14:14	But I am attached to the car.
1:14:16	Q: Yes, but...
1:14:19	K: No ‘but’, just listen! (Laughs) I am attached to the car. My attachment to the car is my opinion, my judgements, my evaluation about the car.
1:14:35	I am... I have got so many opinions. The computer has only mechanical repetition of what it has been fed. Right, sir?
1:14:48	Q: That’s your opinion.
1:14:50	K: I said... No, not my opinion.
1:14:53	Q: I’m not trying to be funny—there have been conferences of computer experts in which they are deciding—I mean, they offer that as a question: can a computer have a consciousness?
1:15:04	There are two opinions.
1:15:06	K: They are beginning to question...
1:15:09	Q: Isn’t it more what in fact… which is most appropriate to use for a certain thing, and which gives the feeling of selection?
1:15:18	K: I am asking—to go back—what would happen if you had no opinion, only facts?
1:15:32	The door. Facts. What would happen if you had no opinions?
1:15:41	Q: But how do you know?
1:15:42	K: How can you live?
1:15:43	Q: No, how do you know that you don’t?
1:15:45	K: We’re going to find out, learn. (Laughs) Say I have a dozen opinions—right?—I think this is beautiful, I think that’s not beautiful, I am lovely and my head is this—opinions.
1:15:59	I think Wilson is a marvellous man, I think Mrs Thatcher is an awful woman, and so on, so on, so on, so on.
1:16:09	Now, if I had none of those opinions… Are you listening? Listen. Listen to the end. If I had none of those opinions, what would happen to me? Come on now, find out, put away your opinions.
1:16:28	Q: Without many opinions, how can you discuss something?
1:16:35	K: Am I discussing opinions? That is dialecticism. You know what dialecticism is? That is, through opinions, through arguments, through what you say against what I say, to find truth out of that.
1:16:59	Through the examination of opinions, to come to a conclusion, is still an opinion.
1:17:07	That’s called dialecticism. Right, sir? Right. I’m getting a clever boy, I’m learning an awful lot!
1:17:19	So, we’re not doing that, because your opinion is as good as my opinion.
1:17:29	But we want to see if a mind can be free of opinions, and what happens to such a mind.
1:17:45	Q: If I have a possibly erroneous and limited number of facts about anything, does that constitute an opinion or... (inaudible) K: I’m only dealing with facts.
1:17:58	Q: I know a few things about whatever it is.
1:18:01	K: I’m only dealing with facts.
1:18:02	Q: But sometimes it’s your opinion that they are facts.
1:18:03	K: Of course, sir. I know all the game. I know this.
1:18:06	Q: But approaching… (Inaudible) K: I’m asking something. I want to move away from it. I’m asking you what would happen to you if you had no opinions.
1:18:15	Q: I feel that if I had no opinions I think I’d feel a lot freer.
1:18:21	K: I’m asking. Have you tried to have no opinions?
1:18:26	Q: Because if...
1:18:27	K: No, have you tried to be free of opinions?
1:18:33	Q: When does it become an opinion, sir?
1:18:38	Q: When we look at…
1:18:40	K: I will tell you. My God. Opinions, judgements, evaluation: the black is beautiful, white is nice—you follow?—all the rest of it—judgement—about communism, about socialism, about Mrs Thatcher, the prime minister, this and that.
1:18:55	Opinions, you know.
1:18:56	Q: But of course you get into a hazy area. Like, for instance, you may say, ‘Oh, the lawn needs cutting,’ and I may say, ‘Oh, it can wait for two weeks.’ Q: No.
1:19:09	K: I’m not doing that, I’m saying have you ever tried to be free of opinions, to have no opinion?
1:19:29	I know what opinions are, you don’t have to examine it too much: my prejudices, my conditioning, my responses to that conditioning—if I am an Englishman I say, ‘I must be English at all costs, we have an old culture, we have our particular laws.’ I heard the other day, the state minister for trade saying, ‘We are British, we must remain British.
1:19:56	We must not enter into the Common Market.’ That’s his opinion.
1:20:03	And Mr Smith comes along, a Mr Smith, and says quite the contrary: ‘We must enter into the common community.’ So what would happen to me, to you, if you had no opinions?
1:20:22	Why carry this burden of opinions, baggage full of opinions?
1:20:30	Have you ever tried it? Come on, sir.
1:20:34	Q: I don’t quite see what you mean by opinions.
1:20:38	K: Oh my God.
1:20:39	Q: It’s changed its meaning in our discussion.
1:20:42	K: What do I mean by opinions? Tungki, I’ve explained, old boy, just now. I prefer blondes—that’s an opinion.
1:20:48	Q: But you talked about excellence earlier and quality, and value does come into excellence and quality.
1:21:01	K: No, there is no quality. Excellence—to run swiftly is what it means. To excel. Not excel over others, which is superior. I am talking of excellence. Excellence means to run—cellere.
1:21:21	Q: When you run swiftly...
1:21:24	K: Do listen to the meaning of it, the feeling of it, don’t... To run excellently.
1:21:31	Q: What I was going to say, sir, is when you run swiftly you don’t have a value of how you should run.
1:21:37	K: No, you run swiftly. Excel in virtue, which means, not that you are superior in virtue as compared to others—you are excellent in that quality.
1:21:52	Now, have you put away from your mind all opinions, and see what happens?
1:22:10	Then you say, ‘Look, I’ve got so many opinions, I don’t know how to put them away.’ Wouldn’t you say that?
1:22:21	You would, wouldn’t you? Don’t be nervous. You would say that, wouldn’t you? Now, just listen to this. I’ve got opinions by the dozen—cheaper!—and I say... and you come along and tell me, ‘Look, why carry this burden?’ And I say to you, ‘But I’m so accustomed to this burden, it’s part of me.
1:22:52	How am I to put it away? Tell me about it.’ Listen carefully. ‘Tell me about it.’ You tell me what to do. He comes along and tells me what to do—opinions!
1:23:08	But if I say, ‘All right, here is a challenge’—you understand, challenge?—somebody is asking. Now, I want to find out, I want to learn about it, I want to see what happens if I really can put away my opinions.
1:23:24	Not how to put them away, then I’m lost. You understand? Then I want a method, a system, an opinion, a judgement—you follow?—I enter into all that. But I’m going to see if I cannot… if I can live without a single opinion.
1:23:45	I’m interested, I’ve given energy, I’m curious, I’m attentive, I’d love to find out. Not from you, I want to find out. That is to learn. What, sir?
1:23:57	Q: The moment that you put that question—can you live without opinions?—it’s already being free from opinions, no?
1:24:10	K: Yes it is, if you have listened to it. If you have given your attention to listening when the man says, ‘Can you be free of opinions?’ because you’re so attentive, at that moment, there is no opinion.
1:24:28	You’re free. Right, sir? Because when you give total attention there is no resistance. Resistance is a part of opinion.
1:24:48	I won’t go into all that.
1:24:55	(Pause) So, this morning we started out by asking if you have thought about what we discussed last time we met here.
1:25:18	We said, what is the most essential thing in life to learn?
1:25:28	Is it career, profession, relationship, thinking, love? And somebody said, ‘Why do you separate them? They are all interrelated.’ Right? And I said, ‘They are all interrelated; where is the beginning of it?’ I know that everything is…
1:25:48	Where shall I look? Right? I am a human being involved in all this - in career, in relationship, in thinking, in love - so I begin with myself because I am that.
1:26:06	Right? Right? Because I am the centre of all that.
1:26:19	So I begin. I say, ‘Now, I see I’m conditioned to be competitive.’ I’m learning about that.
1:26:28	I don’t say, ‘I must be competitive. What would happen if I’m not competitive? I would be destroyed if I’m not competitive,’ I am learning about it. So I study myself being competitive, when I want to beat you at your game, when I want...
1:26:44	I see I’m conditioned because from childhood I’ve been told I’m better, ‘You must be as good as your uncle,’ or your grandmother or whatever it is, ‘I must do this,’ and so on.
1:26:58	My mind is shaped by words—are you following all this?—by words, by statements, by symbols, by constant repetition from the parents, from the teacher, from society.
1:27:17	So my mind is shaped to be competitive. We went into that question, what it means to be competitive: ruthlessness, self-centeredness, brutality, you know, all that’s involved, violence, aggression.
1:27:37	And can I be without any competition? See what happens. When I’m playing a game and I’m competing, at that moment I’m fully aware and see if I can stop that movement of competition.
1:28:03	You understand? You’re all...
1:28:05	Q: So you’re saying, if I can stop that movement...
1:28:09	K: At that moment. Not ‘stop it’. You all want to stop or not. At that moment when you’re going out, competing, at that moment be aware and see what happens.
1:28:27	At the moment of anger, be aware of that moment, give attention to that moment, see what happens, whether that movement goes on, comes to an end, or there is no movement.
1:28:42	You follow? Find out, learn. And we said our minds are full of opinions, judgements, evaluations, you know, all that, whirling around.
1:29:06	Find out, learn about it, why you have opinions, and what would happen if you have no opinions at all.
1:29:18	‘I like red, I don’t like brown, this is nice’—you follow?
1:29:26	What would happen to you if you had not a single opinion? You would become extraordinarily free and sensitive.
1:29:41	Right? Find out, learn.
1:29:51	I think we’d better stop. Do you want to stop?
1:30:03	Stop…
1:30:04	Q: We ought to.
1:30:05	K: We ought to stop. Avanti.