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BR75DSS1.13 - Respect
Brockwood Park, UK - 19 June 1975
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.13



0:01 JThis is J. Krishnamurti’s thirteenth discussion with teachers and students at Brockwood Park, 1975.
0:12 Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about this morning?
0:34 Questioner: Could we talk about happiness, what happiness is?
0:53 K: Do you think you know when you are happy?
1:01 And the moment you know that you are happy, is there happiness?
1:13 Qu’est ce que vous pensez? You know, I’ll come back, I’ll talk about that presently.
1:25 Have you been following what’s been happening in the world lately? The world is becoming more and more dangerous—you know?—politically, economically, socially, in every way, life is becoming very, very dangerous.
1:45 I don’t think one can do anything about it, especially you, as students, but you should be aware of what is happening so that you can meet it when you grow up, intelligently, not lopsided.
2:04 That’s one thing. And the other thing is that we were talking about with the staff the other day—I’m going to use words which you may not like, so I’m using them very cautiously—we were talking about respect.
2:32 Not the respect for status, not the respect that comes out of punishment and reward, which is the respect of fear, which really isn’t respect at all.
2:49 And we went into it fairly seriously. Because if we can cover that whole field of respect and the meaning of that word, which I looked up too this morning... the other morning, that is, to look back, to consider, to have consideration, to have care, to be attentive, without fear, without the domination of authority.
3:36 And we were talking about how important it is to have that kind of respect, respect not only to the educator but a respect to the art of learning.
4:08 Otherwise you can’t learn properly.
4:15 If I have no respect for you and you have no respect for me, you know, our relationship is quite different.
4:26 But if you have respect for me and I have respect for you, that is, not you respect me out of fear or I’m older than you, or that you think you will get something out of me—those are all pretences, hypocrisy—but if you have that attentive consideration—the word being, you know, we look once and pass by, and come back and look attentively—that is respect, part of it.
5:12 We were talking about how important it is because that may be the clue or the basis of right relationship with all human beings, relationship to nature.
5:37 And we were asking here the other... when we discussed with the staff—I happened to be there—whether you have any respect for any of the educators, staff, whether you respect anybody at all.
6:11 You understand? This is a dialogue, this is not a speech by me, so let’s go into it. Do you respect anybody? Do you respect nature, the birds, the animals, the trees, and from there move towards human beings, who suffer a great deal, who are going through a terrible time?
6:51 Some are very, very rich and some terribly poor, some are well fed, others have hardly a meal.
7:01 I just heard, a letter I had from India, Madras, South India—you know where Madras is?
7:10 You know? You have to look at a map.
7:19 You know where Bombay is? It’s on the west coast of India, not quite central, a little below central, and Madras is to the east, south east, on the Bay of Bengal.
7:35 And there the monsoon, the rains have failed again and so schools are being closed, there is not enough water.
7:49 And people are buying water. You understand? There’s not enough to bathe, wash clothes, and so there’s a great deal of suffering going to be there.
8:05 And also you have noticed in Africa, people have had no rain for years.
8:17 And considering all that, do you, here, the students, have any respect for anybody?
8:31 Honestly; don’t pretend, that’s dreadful.
8:42 Respect to each other, for each other.
8:49 Because I feel that is the foundation of one’s life, to respect people, to have consideration for people, and out of that consideration, politeness, courtesy.
9:20 Do you have any respect? Please, dialogue, a discussion, whatever you like. Do you?
9:23 Q: I respect what I feel at any particular time.
9:27 K: You don’t feel it any particular time?
9:36 Q: No, I respect my feeling at the moment when it happens.
9:42 K: But do you have, Bruce, the feeling of respect inside you? Not for a person—the feeling of it?
9:50 Q: Well, can you tell me what it feels like?
9:57 K: I’ll tell you what it... (laughs) The feeling is not to hurt people, not to be violent; to have feeling for another, feeling for nature, the beauty of it, how they are spoiling the world, they are destroying animals; the feeling of generosity, kindliness, you know, the feeling of it, the affection.
10:41 Don’t you have all that, or is that just a lot of old man’s stuff, or that’s all, you know, Victorian and all the rest of it, the establishment?
11:04 Do you feel it’s important to have it? You know what I mean by respect—not respect out of fear, respect towards authority.
11:24 You may have respect because you’re going to be punished or rewarded. I don’t mean all that kind of silly stuff, but the feeling.
11:36 Q: But it’s very easy to fit a feeling to the word. That is to say, it’s very easy to want to fit a feeling to the word. Somebody else tells you you’ve got respect, and you look to something in yourself which you could call that.
11:51 K: No, leave it for the moment about the work.
11:57 Q: No, the word. Sorry.
12:00 K: The word. These acoustics are very bad here.
12:03 Q: You asked me if I’ve got respect and I look in myself to see if there is any...
12:07 K: The word means to look back.
12:17 I say something to you and you don’t listen and you pass by.
12:26 And you suddenly realise that you must go back and listen to him. That’s part of that word ‘respect’. Because the first time you brush by, you go by, you don’t pay attention, and you suddenly realise I should, I might listen to what he’s got to say.
12:53 The urge to listen to another, doesn’t matter whether it’s communist, socialist or Labour or whatever, fascist or a capitalist or whatever it is—just to listen, the feeling of it.
13:12 And out of that feeling you may act. We’ll come to action afterwards. Do you have that kind of feeling, any of you?
13:26 Or you think... or you have not thought about it. If you have thought about it you might say, well, that’s all nonsense.
13:43 (Pause) You’ve got to answer me. I’m sorry, I’m going to sit still too.
13:50 Q: Could I look at this... I’m trying to see that I see the use of the word ‘respect’ clearly. If I as I am doing things with people through the day, I may be doing it in the way that I’m used to doing it, in the way that certain conditioning and certain habits and so on, and it will take me right past things.
14:33 It may be something that I walk on, something that I don’t listen to, but if I have respect for the things and for people, I will be looking again.
14:38 K: That is, you’re saying... do you have respect for craft, the man who lays the bricks properly, with care?
14:49 Do you have respect for capacity? Do you have respect for the man who has a gift, a talent?
15:08 Look at it, go into yourself a little bit, if you will, if that interests you. If not, we’ll go into something else. Because I think this is very, very important in life, perhaps the most important thing, because out of that there is consideration, there is affection, there is attention, and an action which is whole, not just personal.
15:38 So let’s begin. Do you have respect for a man who lays bricks properly?
15:49 Q: Yes.
15:52 K: For the art of it. You take... somebody takes a first-class photograph, and do you respect or have this feeling of beauty for the person who has taken it and also for the photograph, the quality of the colour, all that—do you have that feeling?
16:23 Q: Yes.
16:24 K: Do you? Philip says yes. What do you say? Come on, do share this.
16:30 Q: I just did about half an hour ago. I saw a picture which somebody had taken and it completely bowled me over.
16:34 K: Yes.
16:35 Q: And I want to thank him now for taking it.
16:36 K: Now wait a minute, go slow.
16:44 Now, it bowled you over. Why? The beauty of it? Don’t be shy, for God’s sake, we’re all...
16:57 Q: Well, actually it was a picture of me for the poster and I’ve never seen...
17:05 K: Ah, of yourself. (Laughter) Q: Krishnaji, I don’t...
17:08 K: That’s all right.
17:10 Q: But I don’t think he’s...
17:12 K: Now, wait—of yourself. Did you have a feeling, ‘By Jove, that’s a very good photograph, and the man or the boy who took it had capacity’?
17:23 Do you have respect for that capacity, I’m talking about, first?
17:31 Artisan, the man who makes a marvellous basket.
17:41 You know, I’ve seen in India a weaver.
17:48 Next to the school I go to there is a little village and there is a weaver there and he has been there for, I don’t know, I should think twenty or thirty years, and I go and see him often.
18:01 He’s got a very small room, in which he’s got the weaving apparatus and all the rest of it, and not much light.
18:12 But he produces the most marvellous designs, lovely things. And as I looked I said, ‘By Jove...’ Have I respect for the man or for the thing he has made—you follow?—or the human being that can produce such a thing with his hands?
18:39 You understand?
18:43 Q: The thing that I find I have respect for, if I have to use the word, is the whole moment at which I feel that something is really touching me.
18:52 K: Yes, I’m purposely using that word, for us to communicate properly.
18:59 So do you have respect for craft, for the man who does it properly, and moving from there, do you have respect for each other?
19:14 Or do you say, ‘Well, he’s saying that, it’s not important,’ go off and not pay attention?
19:26 Come on, sir, how am I to talk to you if you don’t talk, dialogue.
19:27 Q: What did you mean when you said... you gave us three different ways that you might... or three different aspects of respect.
19:31 K: Sir, quite.
19:32 Q: What was the third one you said?
19:38 K: I’ve forgotten.
19:42 Q: Well, you said something about the human ability to do something that well with his hands.
19:52 K: Ted, you put the other day... the razor to pieces, rightly. I admired you, I said, ‘By Jove, he’s got very good hands, uses the tools properly.’ I was watching you, and I had respect for your capacity, I admired it.
20:08 I needn’t go up to town and have it mended and so on.
20:18 And probably you do the same thing with other things, so I respect you as a human being who has got capacity, and who can do things with his hands.
20:32 Another thing—I’ll go into it. Have you done things with your hand? Have you ever considered the hand?
20:44 The hand. Have you? It’s a most marvellous thing. Houses are built by hand, great cathedrals, all the art in the world is put together by hand.
21:05 Machu Picchu, you know, you saw it—it’s hands.
21:19 And have you ever planted things, trees?
21:27 Have you ever milked cows? No, you have not. I have, planted trees, milked cows, washed floors, used hands.
21:37 Don’t you feel it’s very important to use your hands?
21:45 Or you all live up here.
21:52 Therefore, do you respect the earth?
21:59 You follow? That it should be looked after, cared for, you know, frugality?
22:16 You understand all this?
22:17 Q: Krishnaji, there are some things I have more respect for than others, like something...
22:31 K: Please, Philip, just listen to this. I am not talking of having respect for others, for something. The feeling of respect. You understand? The feeling—not I have respect for Ted or for somebody.
22:52 If you have that feeling you will respect Ted and the trees and human beings and the earth.
23:00 Q: But if you don’t have that feeling, is it something to worry about?
23:07 K: Oh, you can’t worry about it. But now the next question is, can you cultivate it?
23:21 (Pause) Have you seen on the television baby seals being killed?
23:33 Have you?
23:34 Q: Last year.
23:35 K: You saw it. A man goes up to a very trusting animal and beats it on the head, because somebody wants to put on a sealskin coat.
23:52 You follow? And he probably goes to church every Sunday.
24:05 I am talking of having this feeling.
24:18 If you haven’t got it, shouldn’t you have it, and how do you get it?
24:34 Come on, tell me.
24:37 Q: If you do something yourself, you can get respect.
24:45 If you do something yourself, if you paint something, you know how difficult it is, and then you have respect.
24:52 K: I can’t...
24:55 Q: If you do something yourself, if you try to weave a basket yourself, then you will come to respect the other person’s capability.
25:04 K: So you are saying through action you cultivate respect, is it?
25:12 I see you doing something with your hands well, and because I see you acting I respect the act.
25:28 That’s one part of it, but I want to go a little further than that.
25:36 I want to find out if you have respect in your heart, in your mind, in your feeling, you know, in your eyes.
25:45 Q: That would seem to go much further than a person doing an excellent job.
25:52 K: I’m coming to that.
26:00 If it isn’t there, can you cultivate it by watching another, admiring it and respecting it?
26:12 You understand my question? Have you understood my question, Philip, and the others? I see you play football or cricket or whatever it is. And you make a marvellous shot. I admire it. I say, ‘What a lovely shot that is, perfect shot.’ And I admire you because you’re making... each time you play, you’re excellent, you put your best into it.
26:51 And will that cultivate a respect for all human beings?
27:03 Will you respect me if I am ugly, if I am vulgar, if I am rude, impolite, push you by, away, would you respect me?
27:32 Or react to that and push me back? (Laughs) You follow?
27:39 Q: If I really felt like pushing you back, and if it really welled up in me that I should push you back, then that would be another way of showing you respect.
27:53 K: Would that be respect? No, the wrong way of showing it. You push me away and I react to that and push you away.
28:08 No, we are not approaching this properly.
28:16 I daren’t use words like, ‘Do you love anybody?’ and you say, ‘Of course,’ or not.
28:32 It’s a very loaded word, so I’m a little bit shy of using that word for the moment.
28:46 You see, I feel, personally, that it is tremendously important to have this quality of admiration, affection, care, attention, out of which naturally there is respect.
29:07 I respect the earth, I don’t want to spoil it; on the contrary I want to preserve it, I want to look after it.
29:21 Out of respect, love, affection, care, all that, I want to look after a tree, that it doesn’t die, I want to water it, I want to look after it.
29:41 I washed floors in California, in the house—with soap and all the rest of it.
29:49 Somebody comes along with dirty shoes and walks on it—just cleaned.
30:00 What? You look at me? And this has happened several times. He’s utterly unaware of it, that it has just been cleaned, comes in walking with mud, and I don’t say anything because what’s the point of saying it?
30:25 He’s a visitor or he has been there often and seen the floor dirty, but not noticed it or aware of the floor.
30:33 I can’t do anything about it. Now, what is my relationship with him, when I feel tremendously...
30:48 When I have a feeling of respect for people, what is my relationship to him?
30:55 Q: May I ask if you respect his right to walk on the floor with muddy shoes?
31:02 K: Do you?
31:03 Q: Do you respect his right to walk on the floor with muddy shoes?
31:12 K: I can’t hear.
31:16 Q: Is that respect? You said you don’t speak to him and I...
31:22 K: What shall I do?
31:25 Q: If you were to point it out to him, wouldn’t that...
31:27 K: Wait, if I point it out he’d say, ‘I’m awfully sorry, old boy, I won’t do it the next time.’ Q: He might be more sensitive the next time.
31:36 \\\

K: Wait. But he’s a stranger. He doesn’t notice, mettons, I mean, suppose. He’s a stranger, what shall I do? Do I lose my respect for a human being because he does something callous, indifferent, stupid, vulgar? Come on, sir, why don’t you talk?
31:50 Q: But every time that happens the situation will be a different one, there’s going to be a different person.
32:12 K: So what shall I do, do I lose my...
32:15 Q: Well, I can’t tell you what to do now.
32:19 K: I’m going to show you. What shall I do? Each time somebody comes along after cleaning the floor, dirties it, and goes away—what is my respect or my feeling with regard to that person?
32:39 Do you call him a brute and get annoyed with it, with him?
32:47 Q: That’s what we usually do.
32:51 K: No, don’t... I’m asking you if you have... if a human being has a respect, what shall I do with regard to a man who is brutal or inattentive?
33:06 What shall I do? Will I lose my respect for a human being?
33:13 Q: You’ll be truthful, you’ll be honest with him.
33:18 K: My dear chap, how can I be honest with a man who just as a visitor comes to lunch?
33:25 Q: Why not?
33:27 K: He’ll say, ‘I’m awfully sorry,’ and that finishes it.
33:34 I can’t beat him on the head and say, ‘Wash the floor.’ What shall I do?
33:41 Or have I lost my respect for human beings—that’s the point, you follow?
33:52 There is a man like Hitler or Stalin who have got rid of human beings, Stalin especially, over twenty million or thirty million people.
34:05 You understand? If I have respect for a human, what do I do with such a man, what do I think of him?
34:17 Or I may say, ‘Terrible man.’ But have I lost respect for human beings because half a dozen terrible human beings exist in the world?
34:34 I wonder if you are meeting all this.
34:35 Q: Isn’t the question not do you lose respect for all human beings, but do you lose respect for that particular human being who has done all that?
34:53 K: No, I don’t lose respect for that human being because he’s a terrible human being, full stop.
34:59 Q: Does respect include a feeling for a terrible human being?
35:05 K: No, we’ve moved away. I want to get at the central thing for you, please. I can discuss this differently but I want you as students—please pay attention to this—do you have any respect for anybody?
35:23 Do you respect your parents?
35:25 Q: Yes.
35:26 K: What do you mean by yes?
35:29 Q: I have that feeling you described towards my parents.
35:37 K: Now wait a minute. Wait a minute, Philip. You have respect for your parent—right? Suppose your parent says, ‘Do this.’ Will you do it?
35:56 Listen carefully, don’t argue, feel it out. He says, ‘Philip, do that,’ and you especially want to do it.
36:05 Q: I especially want to do it?
36:09 K: And you want to do it and he says, ‘Please, Philip, don’t do it.’ If you have respect, what happens?
36:20 You understand my question? Right.
36:24 Q: I would ask him why doesn’t he want me to do it.
36:34 K: He explains. He explains, he gives you reasons, he says—and yet in spite of that you want to do it because that’s your desire—you follow?—a strong f feeling to do it—what will you do?
36:49 (Pause) If you have respect for Mr Joe and he tells you to get up early every day and don’t be lazy, what happens?
37:19 Will you do it out of respect? Not fear, not punishment, not authority—respect. I wish you would meet this, it’s very important.
37:46 You see, if there is respect, discipline is easy.
38:08 I mean by discipline something entirely different.
38:15 Discipline, according to the dictionary, comes from the word ‘disciple’, the one who learns.
38:28 The root meaning of that word is to learn, and from that word ‘disciple’ comes discipline.
38:38 Mr Joe tells you something, and if you have respect for him, will you instantly do it?
39:04 Not everlastingly discuss, argue, give reasons. He’ll give you reasons, he’ll tell you, he’ll explain to you how important it is to make your beds, to get up early, etc., etc.
39:24 Now, if you have that respect and are learning from him, will you act instantly?
39:31 Q: Couldn’t you give partial respect for people according to... (inaudible) K: I’m not talking partial, like saying, you know...
39:45 I want to... You can’t be...
39:47 Q: No, but isn’t that...
39:49 K: To be... Don’t be partial about anything, for God’s sake.
39:55 Q: If you go to, say, I don’t know what, the doctor for a medical thing, you go because you respect his capacity in that field.
40:13 K: Yes.
40:14 Q: But you wouldn’t necessarily have the same respect for his opinion of ballet, music or sport or something else.
40:21 K: No, no.
40:22 Q: What is trust?
40:24 K: Trust?
40:25 Q: Yes.
40:26 K: Trust implies, I trust Mr Joe because he knows what he’s talking about—at least I hope so.
40:34 I trust him because I’ve seen him doing certain things and being consistent or being thoughtful, acting unselfishly and so on, so on, so on.
40:47 I trust him. In that trust there is a certain demand or certain quality of protection.
40:56 No? Are you all here or am I talking to myself?
41:02 Q: Can you explain what you mean by protection?
41:10 K: I trust you or you trust me.
41:17 I see that you have the right kind of food, right kind of...
41:27 I’ll help you to cultivate good taste, I’ll help you to use the right language, I’ll help you to learn, to find out what it means to learn, what it means to look, what it means to hear, how to use your hands.
41:49 I’ll help you. That’s a form of protection. Because I protect you so that you grow happily, not according to my pattern or somebody else’s pattern.
42:03 Q: Yes. Protection implies protection against something.
42:05 K: No, no, I protect a tree—it’s not against.
42:09 Q: Oh, I see.
42:12 K: I see that... after all, you are protected, one must have protection, and the world is denying that protection.
42:28 Egypt is offering to England 500 million dollars or pounds so that England can supply armaments to Egypt.
42:42 Look, is that protection? And America supplies to Israel a hundred million—you follow?—and they’re going to have a...
42:54 So, protection in the sense a child, a baby needs protection.
43:03 Right? You’re not babies but you are growing, you have to be protected, you have to be sheltered, it’s part of respect, part of affection.
43:24 If I was looking after you I’d have to protect you against disease. There’s nothing wrong against that.
43:37 Protection implies generally, guidance, domination, telling you what to do—I don’t mean any of that.
43:48 Q: So does protection mean taking time and trouble to explain something to someone?
43:58 K: That’s part of protection. I explain something to you, I’ll take time, trouble, I’ll see that you understand the words I’m using.
44:04 Q: So if you take the time and trouble to explain to the man who walked across the floor, isn’t that about love, respect?
44:08 K: Yes, that’s... You see...
44:12 Q: You take the time and trouble to explain.
44:17 K: That’s right. What I’m trying to get at is, I think respect is the basis of existence, because in that is affection, care, attention, consideration, protection—all that’s involved in that word.
44:39 At least I feel that way. I tell you, if I was here constantly and looking after you, I’d say, are you growing hair long because everybody’s doing it, or does it look nice on you?
45:06 You follow? It’s my responsibility to protect you, to see that your mind is excellent, that you have a very good, sensitive, excellent body.
45:17 It doesn’t mean that you must follow me.
45:26 Now, let’s come back: do you have any respect, now you’ve understood the meaning of that word?
45:38 Have you? Now, do you have respect for anybody?
45:43 Q: Could you talk about where this respect comes from, sir?
45:52 K: I explained, sir. The word comes from... the meaning of that word is to look back.
46:01 Q: No, where does this feeling come from? Because some people have it and some people apparently don’t.
46:06 K: No, no, have you got it? Don’t bother about some people or other people. Have you—you, sitting there, listening to this word—have you got that feeling? Or you say, ‘Well, I don’t care. As long as I get my way, I don’t care what happens.’ Extend that—as long as I get what I want, extend that feeling to a group of people, to a community, to a nation, and that’s what’s happening in the world.
46:52 You understand? Each nation is concerned about itself, which is, each nation, community, the people, the group and so on, so on.
47:06 You’ve understood? Now, have you got respect? (Pause) Come on, answer me.
47:16 Q: Respect for something?
47:21 K: I’ve gone through it, sir.
47:29 Respect for somebody, and then if you... and apart from the object, apart from the person, apart from nature, have you got this feeling of respect?
47:58 And if you’ve got it, or if you haven’t got it, don’t you see it’s important to have it?
48:17 If you see it’s important to have it, how will you have it? What will you do to get it?
48:21 Q: It seems to me if I learn to make a basket myself, I understand and respect the basket-maker.
48:34 K: Ah, we’ve gone beyond. I’m not talking... I am not... You paint. I respect your painting. I may not respect you. I say, ‘What a beautiful painting.’ That’s not what I’m talking. I said, have you got this feeling?
48:57 Q: Krishnaji, every time in the past when I try to have one or other of these feelings, such as respect or love or affection or anything like that, I’ve ended up doing far more harm than good, and now I really don’t feel like I want to go looking for them anymore, at all.
49:22 K: I understand that. So what do you do? You have no respect? I’m sticking to that word, especially, knowing, after explaining to you the meaning of that word and its activities and so on, I’m sticking to that word.
49:36 Now, you, Bruce, you have no respect, suppose. Don’t you see it’s important to have it, to have respect for people, respect for nature, the feeling of it?
49:51 It doesn’t matter if people misbehave, are violent, or brutal, kill—respect, the feeling of respect.
50:07 If you haven’t got it, and do you see the importance of it? Not what it will do, I’m not talking about its action—the feeling of it.
50:16 Q: I can’t say that I’ve understood the word, even now. I don’t know if anything that you can say will really give me the feeling which you wanted to show, at all.
50:45 K: Have you seen the pictures of the pyramid, in Egypt?
50:53 You have, haven’t you. Have you seen... have you looked at it closely, and how it was put together—enormous, from two to seventy ton rocks, blocks, cut precisely, not with electric machines and all the modern gadgetry; by human hands, they have put it together.
51:29 Don’t you admire the capacity of those people? No?
51:34 Q: No, they did it, and that’s all.
51:41 K: (Laughs) Of course they did it.
51:48 Q: They didn’t have to.
51:50 K: (Laughs) They didn’t have to, but they did it.
51:55 Q: They did have to in that case.
51:58 K: They were slaves or whatever—that’s not the point I’m talking about. All right, we’ll move to something else. Have you seen the cathedrals? Now, do you admire the people who put it up, their capacity, their ingenuity?
52:15 Did you hear last night Bronowski, how he talked about architecture and all that?
52:25 Do you admire anything? A painting, a statue, admire capacity.
52:45 I may not have capacity to weave a basket or paint a picture, but I admire Michelangelo.
52:56 He may not have been living a right life, that’s not... I admire the man who produced a marvellous thing.
53:08 Don’t you admire anything? (Laughs) Come on.
53:14 Q: Krishnaji, I can admire someone who builds a cathedral and I can see the time and work that goes into a pyramid, but I don’t like admiring someone who creates a stainless steel building in a park, and yet that stainless steel building was also created with hands.
53:35 K: I understand that. My...
53:37 Q: I can’t... (inaudible) K: I somehow can’t communicate with you. Apparently there is no feeling for you about all this. All right, let’s drop it.
53:43 Q: No, I’d like to carry it through.
53:44 K: Let’s approach it differently.
53:45 Q: Bronowski made a remark on the show last night, saying that the building stands itself. In other words, we don’t remember the king who built it, we don’t remember what have you, but we admire the art and ingenuity that went into building it, and the thing itself is the product.
54:11 And so is it that we look at, we admire the creativity, the hand and mind of the species such as humans who have such great capacity?
54:28 K: Yes.
54:29 Q: And is it that when a human being shows the negative parts of that capacity, in other words, he negates his capacity, that we find it’s anger and frustration and these other feelings well up.
54:38 One sees the greatness one’s capable of and then we see the pettiness and the...
54:51 K: I understand all that, but I’m asking a different question. Do you admire anything?
54:59 Q: Actually, just now I had a feeling that could be called admiration, which was when Philip said no, when you said, ‘Let’s drop it,’ because I felt something more than just what he said.
55:18 K: Yes. If you... do you want to go on with the subject of respect? Then let’s go on, but I want you all to collaborate with it together, otherwise it’s just...
55:31 Q: Sir, perhaps we could take something nearer home, like the horses we had here recently.
55:40 We admire the grace and the beauty of a horse.
55:43 K: All right, take it. There was that pony there and as it ran, did you admire it? Did you see the beauty of the line, the tail? Did you see all that? Did you admire it? Now, move from there. All right, you see how... You see a building and the architect who put up that building. Do you admire the building and the architect, say, ‘What a clever man he is, by Jove, he’s got talent, he’s got capacity, it’s not a stupid building, it’s put together beautifully.’ Right?
56:25 Right? Are you following this?
56:27 Q: Well, I admire the building and I admire also the architect, but I will admire also the people that built it, really, I mean stone after stone, brick after brick?
56:36 K: Of course, of course. So now go a little further, a little deeper.
56:50 Do you admire your teacher?
56:59 (Laughs) Do you admire your educator?
57:08 Q: Which one?
57:11 K: Ah! (Laughter) Then when you say, ‘Which one?’ then that becomes a preference.
57:22 I prefer Joe, Mr Joe, to Ted, that’s not admiration, that’s preference, prejudice, my personal like and dislike.
57:36 Admiration has nothing to do with my like and dislike. This thing is... (laughs) So, do you admire your teacher?
57:48 The feeling of admiration, the feeling of wonder.
57:56 Each time I look at that television, I say, ‘What a marvellous instrument it is, a miracle.’ You understand?
58:07 How human beings invented that thing.
58:17 I admire that. You follow? Now, do you admire your teacher that way, your educator, the staff?
58:22 Q: Do you mean all the time?
58:27 K: No, no! (Laughs) Q: Yes.
58:33 K: Not all the time, but the feeling. I want to push you into the feeling of it—not for somebody, not all the time, but the feeling of admiration, wonder.
58:50 Say for instance, that man who killed the baby, see, I wondered how a human being could do such a thing.
59:02 You follow? That’s a wonder. And I wonder at the man who built or the people who built the cathedrals or the ancient temples. They had no instruments, very few instruments.
59:16 Q: But those people who built the cathedrals and pyramids, well, they built it because of a certain belief they had, of God and second life and all this.
59:31 And last night I saw about pollution, a programme, Bronowski, that man who built, I don’t know, a huge sculpture in Los Angeles, well, I really admired that man, even if the...
59:49 K: I’ve come much closer, old boy, not there, not in Egypt, India or in Greece or in London.
59:57 I’m asking you here (laughs), do you have admiration for your educators?
1:00:15 And from admiration, respect. You are beginning to understand the meaning of that word?
1:00:21 Q: Is admiration further than respect?
1:00:28 Can one not respect a person without the extra dimension of admiration?
1:00:36 K: I’m slowly coming to it, don’t...
1:00:37 Q: But you just said that respect implied admiration.
1:00:40 K: Of course... I’m going to...
1:00:43 Q: Does it?
1:00:44 K: Somebody questioned—oh goodness me, we’re all so terribly intellectual, aren’t we? I’m not blaming Mrs Zimbalist or anything—we are all so... we don’t seem to be simple about these things.
1:00:59 Q: What if you don’t admire your teacher?
1:01:05 K: Do you admire your own sister? (Laughs) Do you admire your own father and parents, do you respect them?
1:01:19 Q: Sometimes.
1:01:21 K: Sometimes! When? When they please you?
1:01:29 Q: (Inaudible) K: (Laughs) Is that respect?
1:01:37 Or you’ve never thought about this, it’s the first time you’re thinking about it.
1:01:46 Is it? Is it the first time you’re being pushed into a corner to think about it?
1:01:58 And therefore you say, ‘I’m puzzled, I don’t know what you’re talking about.’ And I’ll explain again if you want it, what it means to admire, the wonder of life, the wonder of a tree, the beauty, the wonder of a cathedral, the wonder of a man who kills little animals who were trusting him, he beats them on the head—how can such a human being, living in this civilization, talking about Christ, love, suffering, war, how can he do such a thing?
1:02:40 Q: What does wonder mean, the word ‘wonder’ mean?
1:02:49 K: Oh... (laughs) No, no, don’t quibble about words (laughs)!
1:03:04 I wonder how can a man be so stupid (laughs). All right, let’s go into it, if it interests you, if you think it is important: respect.
1:03:28 And you have not got it, if you have no respect for anybody, what happens to you, what are you?
1:03:41 Why should anybody show respect to you if you have no respect to somebody? You follow? Why should I show respect to you if you don’t respect me? Do you meet me that way? Do we meet that way?
1:04:00 Q: But why should you?
1:04:05 K: What?
1:04:06 Q: Show respect to me.
1:04:10 K: Why—all right.
1:04:13 Q: You used the word ‘should’ and every time I hear that, it does something...
1:04:21 K: No, (laughs) don’t... Look, if I show respect to you and you show respect to me, we do things together, don’t we, there is a certain relationship.
1:04:32 If you have no respect for me and I have no respect for you, living in this small community, what takes place?
1:04:46 What takes place to a human being who has no respect for anything, except perhaps for his own desires, for his own wants?
1:04:52 Q: When you say somebody has no respect for anything, that implies, by saying having no respect for anything that that is a continuous state, it’s something which carries on. But I don’t say that I have no respect for anything or anyone, I’m saying that perhaps right now I haven’t.
1:05:04 At times I have had something that I call respect and at other times I haven’t.
1:05:27 K: All right, other times you haven’t.
1:05:37 Then what relationship have you at those periods when you have no respect for anybody?
1:05:49 What happens to you? Where are you in the world, where are you in this community?
1:06:01 You follow my point?
1:06:13 Isolated, indifferent, callous, unconcerned?
1:06:30 At the moment... at those periods when you had respect, what happened there?
1:06:45 What happened when you had respect for a period of time? As you say, ‘Sometimes I’ve had it,’ and what happens when you’ve had that feeling of respect? (Pause) Q: If I said that I’ve forgotten, it would be true.
1:07:06 K: Quite.
1:07:08 Q: I can’t remember what it was like.
1:07:16 K: Don’t you feel much closer to people?
1:07:23 Q: Yes.
1:07:25 K: That’s all. Therefore you wouldn’t hurt them, would you?
1:07:31 Q: No.
1:07:32 K: No. You’d be considerate, you’d be polite, you’d help—you follow?—there is quite a different feeling.
1:07:44 Q: You’re happier in yourself.
1:07:47 K: You don’t have to add. Find out, sir. See the period when you have respect and the period when you have no respect, look at it.
1:08:08 The period when you have no respect you are enclosed, you are worried about your own problems, you’re concerned about yourself, what you’re doing, whether it’s right or wrong, your conflict, your misery, your depression, your headache, your whatever it is.
1:08:29 You’re enclosed, and being enclosed, what happens?
1:08:31 Q: I try to fight to get out of the... (inaudible) K: That’s it, you begin to fight.
1:08:47 Q: Well, I haven’t been doing that recently, I’ve been trying...
1:08:49 K: No, no.
1:08:50 Q: (Inaudible) K: So, see the difference between the two.
1:08:59 And most people in the world are enclosed. Right? Most people, obviously, otherwise the world wouldn’t be in this state.
1:09:22 Leave respect for the moment, we’ll come back to it later.
1:09:31 Do you use your hands? Come on, sir, tell me.
1:09:47 Do you write?
1:09:55 And write legibly, clearly, with a beautiful script, or just... (laughs) Do you use your hands, are your hands in touch with the earth?
1:10:21 It doesn’t mean that you must touch the earth all over—I don’t mean that.
1:10:28 Do you know what it feels like to have your hands in the earth?
1:10:36 Have you ever? Or you think it is all unnecessary.
1:10:54 Do you use your brains?
1:11:02 You do, don’t you, when you talk, when you write, anything you’re doing you use your brains, don’t you?
1:11:13 Don’t you want to have an excellent brain?
1:11:20 I’ll tell you what excellent means, the meaning of that word.
1:11:28 The word means to be on the top of a hill, to rise high.
1:11:38 Right? That is, to have a first-class brain.
1:11:49 Do you... Don’t you want it? Or, ‘No sorry, occasionally I would like to have it but it’s such a bore to have a good brain.’ Don’t you want to do anything excellently?
1:12:15 If you play guitar, first-class at it, beat Sergovia.
1:12:24 Don’t you want to be first-class at something?
1:12:33 If you say yes, how much will you pay for it?
1:12:49 Not in coins; what will you do about it?
1:12:53 Q: Put my energy into that.
1:12:59 K: Will you put all your energy into it, will you put all your thought into it, all your capacity?
1:13:05 Q: Yes.
1:13:06 K: Are you doing it?
1:13:07 Q: Yes. Yes, with that thing I’m interested in, with that...
1:13:16 K: Yes, all right. Are you all interested in this, to have a... What am I to... if you don’t respond, what am I to say?
1:13:38 It is not ambition to be excellent.
1:13:46 Ambition and excellency don’t go together. Do you want to discuss it? Do you know what that word ‘ambition’ means, originally? A man who went round collecting votes. That was the meaning of that word.
1:14:11 Then ambition became: I am ambitious to become the executive or whatever, the foreman or the shop steward or the manager, for status, position, more money.
1:14:25 Are you ambitious? As I said, excellency has nothing whatsoever to do with ambition.
1:14:47 Ambition implies, in it, as it is understood now, competition, struggle, to achieve, to become, to be somebody.
1:15:02 Excellence, the meaning of that word, is to rise high, not in the eyes of others, not as a status, but to be excellent.
1:15:29 If you’re playing golf, be first-class at it.
1:15:38 Do you want to be excellent? (Laughs) Q: If you want to be excellent, isn’t that ambition?
1:15:52 K: No, I want... We explained it. I want to be very good at playing golf. That’s not ambition. My ambition would be to beat somebody—you follow?—to be top over... and so on, so on.
1:16:19 I want to play excellently every shot, which means top of my form.
1:16:30 Q: Does ambition imply a by-product of ego, from what you’re doing?
1:16:47 Egotism. You are imagining yourself as a... (inaudible) K: Yes, a by-product of egotism, if you like to use it.
1:16:57 I explained, we explained what that word means, ‘ambition’.
1:17:13 You might be ambitious for your country, you must be ambitious to carry out your ideal, you might be ambitious to achieve a position, and so on.
1:17:28 All that implies competition, ruthlessness, you know, self-importance, and all that.
1:17:38 Excellence is not that. The very meaning of that word is to rise high, to your highest capacity.
1:17:57 If you think something, go into it, see to the very end of it what it means, not just half way drop it.
1:18:07 Q: Would excellence also imply—let’s say you’re taking up, like when you were learning golf, let’s say you practised an hour or two hours a day, but during that time you’re completely involved in what was going on with that game, whether or not you would ever reach a stage of being able to really be excellent in the eyes of others, wouldn’t it mean how much time you had to play with it, etc.?
1:18:39 K: No, look...
1:18:40 Q: But in the act of being excellent...
1:18:42 K: No, we said—I want to find out the importance or the unimportance of respect.
1:18:52 I want to think it out right to the end and see if the quality, the beauty, the intensity, if there is in me—I won’t let it go.
1:19:03 So I watch my actions, my words, my behaviour, everything to see if I have that quality.
1:19:16 Not because you have respect and I want to beat you at it—you follow?
1:19:20 Q: It seems to me if I’m in a state of wonder, I want to know how it works, why it happens, what happens.
1:19:36 K: I can tell you, it’s fairly simple. Do you approach respect—I’m taking that; wonder, respect—through details of action, or do you have this feeling and then work out details?
1:19:59 You see the difference? Do you see the difference? Have the feeling—the quality of it, the intensity of it, the wholeness of it—and then, having that feeling, you work out the details.
1:20:21 But now most people work at the details hoping to get the other.
1:20:28 They collect a lot of spokes and hope somehow the wheel will be made.
1:20:38 You understand?
1:20:39 Q: You say begin with the feeling, then if one doesn’t have the feeling...
1:20:51 K: Will discussing details get the feeling, arrive at the feeling?
1:20:55 Q: Certainly not discussing the details, but paying attention to the details.
1:21:01 K: No, please, sir, I carefully said, do you work out things—do you have respect first and work out the details, how it will show, what to do and so on, or will you first get the—how to behave, how to talk and what is the manner of showing respect, learn all about that, and will you get respect out of that?
1:21:34 Q: There’s a point here that we’ve come to several times and it’s never been very clear.
1:21:50 I think it’s creating confusion and we have to go into it.
1:22:01 K: What’s that?
1:22:02 Q: That certain pursuits that humans engage in, like playing golf, bowling, archery, darts, pool and others, to me I look at them as purely mechanical aspects, purely mechanical.
1:22:26 You practise and you get into a certain pattern of having...
1:22:33 K: Quite.
1:22:34 Q: ...memorised, you know, your body memorises that way to behave. To me that does not really have any aspect of creativity to it.
1:22:43 K: No. Proceed.
1:22:45 Q: It’s mainly a mechanical endeavour.
1:22:46 K: I understand that.
1:22:47 Q: Now, also some of these things we’ve mentioned are pursuits which are created by thought. They are created... you know, to hit a ball around, you know, it’s not a natural thing—a man has invented that, partly as a pastime, as an entertainment, you know, to throw little darts against the wall to me is a waste of time. You can become excellent at it, but so what, it has no meaning to it.
1:22:55 K: I agree. I agree.
1:22:57 Q: It has no meaning.
1:22:58 K: I can be expert at golf; what’s the point of it? Yes, I understand that. I understand. Go on.
1:23:11 Q: What’s the point of becoming excellent at playing a guitar, if that’s not what’s called for at the moment?
1:23:13 K: It is agreed. Move, sir, move further, go on.
1:23:15 Q: Right, so we may look around, I mean, we look around as we are in this world, now, and we see that something is happening.
1:23:23 I mean, I think most of us agree that there is some trouble here, this great trouble.
1:23:26 K: Great trouble.
1:23:27 Q: Great—I mean, we’re threatened with perhaps extinction.
1:23:29 K: I agree. Go on.
1:23:31 Q: Now, we may not want to be bothered with it. I may not want to be bothered with it. I may want to play my guitar, I may want to become excellent at being a guitar player, but that opportunity is not there.
1:23:54 K: All right.
1:23:55 Q: I mean, to me the proper response in this situation when the snake is there, I can’t say, ‘I don’t want to be bothered with that snake, I want to play my guitar.’ It’s not the proper response.
1:23:58 K: Quite right.
1:23:59 Q: So what is the proper response that we all should be making in this situation?
1:24:03 K: All right. Is that it? You’re saying—I don’t want to complicate it, that’s why—thought is mechanical and the things thought produces are mechanical—right?
1:24:17 Q: Right.
1:24:19 K: Whether it’s golf or guitar or continuous practise of building something.
1:24:29 Anything that thought creates must be mechanical. It may have in that creation new inventions, new patterns, new way of looking, but it’s still within the area of thought, mechanical.
1:24:50 And is respect mechanical?
1:24:53 Q: In the first way we looked at it.
1:25:01 No, I know that you changed it slightly since then.
1:25:06 K: I purposely...
1:25:07 Q: We were talking about having respect for ability.
1:25:08 K: No, that’s why we took all those.
1:25:09 Q: And we’ve gone past that.
1:25:10 K: Yes. I said, look, we—I didn’t want to begin with thought is mechanical. That becomes too complicated for—you know? But you and I can discuss that. But if we see that all the things that thought has put together, most marvellous things and most ugly things, is still mechanical—the patterns can vary in that field but it’s still mechanical.
1:25:41 Right. Now I say to myself: is respect mechanical, is love mechanical, is attention mechanical, is care mechanical?
1:26:00 So you—you see, it becomes too...
1:26:06 Q: My thought about care or respect is mechanical.
1:26:15 K: My thought about respect is mechanical. Yes, that’s what you have done, showed to me. That’s what Mr Joe is pointing out. All that you have shown so far is a mechanical reaction to a word, and battling with that word.
1:26:36 That’s all he’s pointing out; I’m putting it quickly.
1:26:44 Q: Is that a human quality or these other things?
1:26:51 K: Yes, is human quality mechanical? Come on, sirs. Is—this is a little more complex, I don’t want to go into it—is all existence, as we know, mechanical?
1:27:22 You understand? Is all action mechanical, in the sense that it is based on a pattern?
1:27:43 It may have a new pattern or extended pattern, modified pattern, or old form of pattern or a new form, but is all action based on pattern?
1:27:55 Is all life a mechanical movement?
1:28:08 Apparently we have made it so. Right? Because we operate in the field of thought all the time. And we said thought is mechanical. That is, thought is a response of memory.
1:28:29 Memory is knowledge or experience, a background of centuries of accumulated knowledge, which has become our computerised memory, and we respond to that, according to that memory, which is mechanical.
1:28:50 So I’m asking, is love mechanical?
1:29:02 Is respect? Which means affection, care, attention, when you say something, listen to it completely.
1:29:16 That is a form of respect.
1:29:26 Not think about something else and come back and say, ‘What did you say? Please repeat it again.’ That is disrespect, because I make you repeat something which you have said.
1:29:47 That is my lack of courtesy towards you. So answer, sir, this is your problem, this is part of your education, you’re facing this thing in life.
1:30:08 You’re going to go. When you walk out of this place, you’re going to face all this.
1:30:24 So though you may not be able to do anything about what is happening in the world, you must know, and knowing it, aware of it, and then out of that awareness, intelligence, and when you go out, you’ll act intelligently about all this mess, this fracas.
1:30:40 (Pause) Well, sir, come on.
1:30:42 Q: I just want to say something which I’ve been thinking about, wanting to talk about, and that is that you often say something and I’ve got something to say on my mind, but just before I say it I think, am I saying it because I want people to think I’m clever?
1:31:36 K: Forget all that—tell me.
1:31:37 Q: Well, no, there’s nothing there right now. But I often don’t say anything because the thought comes in just before I say it and I don’t get in quick enough.
1:31:53 But I’m saying it because I want to, you know, be...
1:31:56 K: Quite, quite, quite. Sir, do you listen to anybody or it has to be repeated to you again?
1:32:10 I tell you it’s very important to go... to do something, and I have explained to you, pros and cons, I show it to you, examples, everything—I say, ‘Please, will you do this?’ You have listened, you have seen the reason, you have seen the not-unreasonableness of it—have you listened to that, or you are thinking about something else?
1:32:47 Q: It depends what’s just happened.
1:32:49 K: Wait, wait—thinking of something else, and you say, ‘Please tell me what you said just now.’ Just a minute.
1:32:58 Does that show respect?
1:32:59 Q: I think it does. I think the fact that you’ve asked the person to repeat...
1:33:10 K: Ah! Look what it means to me. Repeat something which I have said, which is a bore. (Laughs) Q: Yes.
1:33:21 K: Yes.
1:33:22 Q: But when you were saying something just now, there were thoughts going through my head which stopped me from hearing some of the things that you were saying. But if can be honest with you...
1:33:28 K: Of course, don’t be dishonest.
1:33:31 Q: No, if I’m going to be honest and respect you...
1:33:35 K: Yes, yes, I understand it. I’m asking a very simple thing. I tell you something. I explain it to you very carefully, the against and for, the reasons, I show the whole picture to you, and I say, ‘Listen,’ and you come back to me after I’ve explained that, ‘Please go over it again, will you, because I’m not listening?’ Does that show respect or disrespect?
1:34:16 Q: Well, I think you’re going to jump on what I’m going to say, but when you’re talking to me and I...
1:34:28 K: No, I’m not talking... I’m generally. I say to you—wait—I say to you, after a great deal of discussion, after a great deal of time spent on it, I say, ‘Go to bed early,’ something on which we all agreed, set a time—are you listening to that when we’re discussing, when we are analysing, when we are showing, do you pay attention to it, or you say, ‘Well, I’m not... it doesn’t matter what that person is saying, I want to go to bed at 11:30.’ You don’t bring that out when we were talking about going to bed early, so you’re not listening, not paying attention, not caring what the other person says.
1:35:16 Would that be disrespect?
1:35:30 I see on that door: ‘Don’t walk in here with clogs’—whatever—clogs—because it spoils the floor, it does this, it does that, makes noise, and so on and so on.
1:35:47 Do you read that notice carefully and therefore never wear whatever you’re not supposed to wear?
1:35:59 It’s finished. Or has that notice to be put over and over and over again?
1:36:08 Come on, sir, answer it.
1:36:15 If that notice has to be put over and over again, you’re making your mind mechanical.
1:36:22 You follow? Repetition is mechanical. But if you read it once and paid attention—finished, you’ll never come back wearing those shoes again.
1:36:38 You understand? I respect what has been said on that notice. Right, sir?
1:36:43 Q: You stopped me from saying something a few minutes ago and I still want to say it.
1:36:44 K: Good. I didn’t mean to stop you.
1:36:49 Q: No, but I think...
1:36:53 K: Avanti, avanti.
1:36:55 Q: The thing is, if you’re talking to me, well if anyone is talking to me, and I start off listening, then some thoughts come along and start to interrupt the listening process, I don’t want them to, but by the time I’ve seen them I’ve already missed about half a minute of what you say.
1:37:27 So if I’m interested enough in what you’ve been saying to me, I’m going to come back and say, ‘Could you repeat that part of what you were saying because these thoughts came in?’ K: That’s quite a difference.
1:37:40 Q: Yes, that’s what I was going to say.
1:37:49 K: That’s quite a different thing.
1:37:50 Q: Yes. Now, is that disrespect or is that really wanting to know what the person was saying, admitting you had something you couldn’t control and just asking them if they will say it again?
1:37:54 K: Yes, so I’ll repeat it because you say to me, ‘Sorry, I didn’t listen properly because I was thinking something else, or thoughts came into my mind while I was listening to you.’ I say, ‘All right, I’ll repeat it to you.’ That’s not discourtesy.
1:38:05 Q: No, I think... that is respect, I think.
1:38:07 K: That’s not discourtesy because you are frank with me and I’m telling you. I’ll repeat it a hundred times. That’s not disrespect. But I say something to you very clearly, and I say, ‘Please do pay attention to what I’m saying.’ And at the end of it you do exactly what you did before.
1:38:43 Right? Would that be respect or disrespect? I explained, I have shown, I have pointed out, gone into it all, and you say, ‘Yes, I’m listening,’ and do exactly the opposite of what you...
1:39:05 Q: If you did exactly the opposite, or did the same thing as you’ve always been doing before, but really without knowing that you were doing that, just completely ignorant of the fact that you were...
1:39:16 K: You ignored what I was saying. Not you. Not you personally. You ignored. You ignore that notice on that door, on the dining room door: ‘Don’t come in with clogs, it spoils the floor.’ Does one pay complete attention to that, because it has been explained, it spoils the floor, the floor has to be washed, cleaned, etc., etc., and do you pay attention to it?
1:39:52 And if you did, it’s finished, you never come with those kind of shoes. If you don’t, it has to be repeated, and therefore that shows your mind is becoming mechanical.
1:40:08 Q: Okay, if your mind is becoming mechanical, but at any particular time you don’t actually see that it’s mechanical, it’s somewhere else, is that disrespect?
1:40:15 If you suddenly see that you are doing something mechanically and you carry on, that is tremendous disrespect.
1:40:21 K: That’s all I mean. That’s all I mean.
1:40:23 Q: Yes. If you really don’t see, if somebody points it out to you and then you see, and you carry on doing the same thing, well then you’re being tremendously disrespectful.
1:40:38 K: Of course.
1:40:39 Q: But what if I don’t see.
1:40:42 K: Then I say, ‘Please sit down, I’ll show it to you.’ I’ll discuss with you, I’ll go into it, show it in ten different ways, then at the end of an hour you do exactly the thing, the opposite—doesn’t that show disrespect?
1:41:08 Obviously. Which means the mind isn’t quick enough to catch it, the first thing, and therefore act instantly.
1:41:20 Q: But it’s also possible to be disrespectful to yourself.
1:41:38 K: Ah, go easy, go easy. Disrespect to yourself. What is yourself?
1:41:43 Q: Well...
1:41:45 K: You see, don’t, that becomes a very complex thing. Why should I have respect for myself? What am I? A cooked-up image, to which I’m going to have respect?
1:42:06 Q: No, I didn’t mean that.
1:42:19 No, when I say ‘yourself’, I mean respect for the truth.
1:42:24 K: That means—wait—truth is not—this is very... we’ll have to go into it—truth is not yours or mine.
1:42:32 Truth is truth. Right? It is not Bruce’s or mine or Ted’s truth, it is what is true, truth.
1:42:42 I won’t go into all the meaning, it’s complex. Then if you say, ‘I respect truth, not my truth’, therefore you have to go into the word, what truth means.
1:43:05 Is there a truth which is not in the pattern of thought?
1:43:20 We said, whatever is in the pattern of thought is mechanical. Right? Is truth mechanical?
1:43:30 Q: Is it that one thinks that one knows anything about truth at all?
1:43:43 K: Can you know—you see, this is very difficult, go slowly, if you want to go into it—can you know truth or—wait—or you know what you think is truth.
1:43:59 Q: That’s what I was coming to.
1:44:02 K: Yes. What you think is truth. What you think is truth, is that truth, or is it a mechanical idea of what truth is?
1:44:11 Q: It’s mechanical, because you’ve repeated it.
1:44:14 K: That’s it. Therefore is truth mechanical? So you see, one has to go into this rather carefully.
1:44:26 You see, I’m trying to get at something, which is, you see, our life is constant...
1:44:40 is always hindered, we are being forced to act in a certain way: don’t put on clogs when you come into the room.
1:44:54 You see, I don’t want to live in a pattern, discipline—you follow?—I think that’s a terrible way of living.
1:45:08 So I must find a way of not living that way, which is to pay attention to things instantly and finish with it.
1:45:20 If you have all agreed, as we have, don’t come into the room with clogs on or whatever it is, with boots and so on, I’ve finished, I don’t have to be told ten times.
1:45:33 So you see—well, I won’t go into all this—the mechanical mind is the most destructive mind.
1:45:50 A mechanical mind which says, ‘France must be the first,’ or England says, ‘We’ve got the oil now,’ or, ‘We’ll be vastly better off when Cairo orders five hundred million worth of warfare’—you follow?
1:46:23 They don’t seem to see that the whole of humanity is one.
1:46:29 Q: If you look at a beehive you can get a tremendous feeling of that.
1:46:36 K: Yes, sir.
1:46:37 Q: You can see the whole thing.
1:46:38 K: Thinking, quite. That’s why, while you’re young, for God’s sake see all this.
1:46:40 Q: Could I just say something else, which has struck me? That is that regret is also in the field of mechanics, because if you...
1:46:42 K: Yes. That’s right. Quite right.
1:46:45 Q: It would be quite easy for me now—or rather, it wouldn’t—but it could be quite easy for me now to look back at all the times when I didn’t see clearly enough.
1:46:51 K: Yes, and regret it.
1:46:52 Q: With a tremendous amount of hurt, and all sorts.
1:46:53 K: Yes, yes.
1:46:59 Q: It would be very easy for me now to spend a lot of time...
1:47:17 K: ...in regret.
1:47:18 Q: ...in regret, and just carry on.
1:47:20 K: Yes, which means—you know.
1:47:22 Q: But when you don’t regret something, the normal—well, not the normal, but the accepted thing is that you regret for an acceptable period of time, after which you can forget it.
1:47:34 K: Why should you regret? That’s my point.
1:47:39 Q: There’s no ‘should’.
1:47:40 K: That’s it. Find out.
1:47:42 Q: I’m not saying that I should.
1:47:43 K: No.
1:47:44 Q: No, I am coming to something else which is going to clear something up I think for me. That is that I don’t regret anything at all, at any time, or I might do just a short time, until I see how stupid it is, but other people looking, seeing that I don’t regret something which to them was a gross hurt, to somebody else, or anything, they say, ‘What a callous person that is,’ and then they...
1:48:18 K: Look, I understand that. Suppose you did something to me which hurt me. You come and apologise and say you’ve finished with it, but I carry on.
1:48:32 And I say, ‘I’m going to make you pay for it.’ It’s my misery not yours.
1:48:40 Q: But people do... (inaudible) K: Ah, well, people are people.
1:48:44 Q: Yes, but you’ve got to put up with that.
1:48:49 K: It is time. Now wait a minute, wait a minute—did you get something out of this morning?
1:49:00 We talked about respect, wonder, we talked about using your hands.
1:49:10 Have you ever looked at your hands? Not polishing them or painting them red and all that kind of stuff—look at your hand and see what it can do, you know, go into it, think it out.
1:49:30 And use your hands: dig, paint, write—you follow?