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BR76DSS2.5 - Inward flowering
Brockwood Park, UK - 10 October 1976
Discussion with Staff and Students 2.5



0:22 Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about this morning? Questioner: Since this is one of our last days, whether we can continue with our discussion on what do we really want to do in the world, and the influence of the world upon us, as you were talking about with Jean-Michel the other day in here, and we haven't quite finished this.
0:48 K: You want to talk about that? What you want to do in the world afterwards, is that it? Do you want to talk about that?
0:58 Q: Something more.
0:59 K: Something more.

Q: Yes.

K: Go ahead.
1:04 Q: Well, I am not sure. I think maybe we could incorporate more into that question than just that.
1:10 K: Yes. What is that? Sir, I think there are people outside that want to get in.
1:42 Let him finish, he is thinking it out. You want to incorporate something more, don't you?
1:47 Q: Yes.

K: What was it?
1:49 Q: Could we discuss relationship? Relationship here in Brockwood, now.
1:57 K: Relationship now in this community at Brockwood.
2:14 Q: We are talking about something which is to happen rather than...
2:19 K: Rather than what should be now.
2:21 Q: Or than what is.

K: What is now.
2:27 K: Anything else? Scott Forbes: Last Thursday we mentioned just very briefly our chattering minds and how that interferes with relationship.
2:39 K: Good Lord. All right.
2:46 Anything else?
2:53 Q: And yesterday in discussion with David Bohm, we went into 'you are the world'. I would rather like to go further into that as well, if possible.
3:04 K: Poor Dr Bohm!
3:19 I think if we could talk about, talk over together, the question of whether we are, each one of us here in this small community, flowering, growing, blooming, or are we following a certain narrow groove, and therefore at the end of our life realise that we have never had an opportunity or an event that helps us to flower deeply, and so regret for the rest of our life.
4:11 I think that would include most of our questions, wouldn't it? Right?

Q: Yes.
4:19 K: Not only now at Brockwood, as students and also the educators, all of us, we should ask, I think, whether we are inwardly and perhaps also outwardly – they are really both related together – whether we are growing.
4:50 Not physically tall or getting more strong, etc., but inwardly, psychologically, flowering.
5:04 I mean by that word, that nothing hinders us, nothing blocks us, prevents us from actually growing, deeply, inwardly, and flowering.
5:33 Most of us hardly ever flower, grow, bloom.
5:43 Something happens to our lives, in the course of our lives that stultifies us, that deadens us, that there is no deep, inward nourishment.
6:04 And perhaps it is because the world around us demands that we become specialists: doctors, scientists, archaeologists, specialists, philosophers and so on.
6:23 And so perhaps that may be one of the reasons why psychologically we don't seem to grow immensely.
6:43 I think this is one of the questions that we should discuss here, talk over together in a dialogue: what is it, as a small community of teachers and students and all of us together, whether anything is preventing us, whether we are so deeply conditioned, conditioned by our society, by our parents, by our religion, by our knowledge even, whether all those environmental influences are really preventing or blocking or hindering this blossoming?
7:58 You understand my question? You don't understand my question?
8:13 Look, if I am a Catholic, my mind, my brain, my whole psychological structure is already conditioned, isn't it?
8:27 My parents tell me I am a Catholic, I go to the church every Sunday and there is the Mass, the beauty of it, the scent, the perfume, the society, good hats and good dress, and watching each other and all that, and the intoning of the priest – all that conditions the mind, and therefore there is never a flowering.
9:00 You understand? I move along a certain groove, a certain path, a certain system, and that very path, that very system, that very activity is limiting and therefore there is never a blossoming.
9:23 You understand my question now? Is that what is happening here?
9:36 Are we so heavily conditioned by the various accidents and incidents and pressures and assertions of parents and all the rest of it?
9:49 Is that what is preventing us from flowing easily, happily, growing?
10:03 If it is that, then does Brockwood, here, help you to break down your conditioning?
10:21 You follow my question now? If it does not, then what is the point of it?
10:35 What is the point of Brockwood? If you are going to turn out like so many millions of people who have never felt or inquired or lived in this vast sense of deepening, flowing, blooming, flowering.
11:05 You understand my question? Bene? Do you? Please, this is a dialogue, I am not giving a talk.
11:20 Q: But outside there is so much pressure.
11:24 K: Too much pressure. Yes, there is too much pressure.
11:37 Go into it slowly, inquire into it. If you had no pressure would you do anything? Would you study? Would you even pay attention now? I am pressuring you – you understand? I am not actually pushing you into a corner but I am pointing out to you, and that may also be a pressure, because you don't want to look, you want to have fun in life, you think you are a special person, or that you want to do something and therefore you neglect everything else.
12:27 And if you had no pressure at all, of any kind, would you be active?
12:40 Or you would become more and more lazy, indifferent, and gradually wither away?
12:48 Though you may have a husband, wife, children, a house and jobs, etc., inwardly the blossoming never takes place.
13:04 So, is one receiving here the right kind of pressure?
13:11 You understand? The right kind, not the compulsive pressure, not the imitative pressure, not the pressure of success, climbing the ladder, becoming somebody, but the pressure that helps you to grow, inwardly.
13:38 You understand?
13:53 And if there is no flowering then one lives an ordinary mundane life and dies at the end of 50, 60 or 80 years.
14:14 That is the usual life of an average person. Have you noticed that? And when you observe all this, what is your reaction, what do you say about it?
14:37 Q: What is the meaning of all this? I mean, whether it is meaningful to live that way.
14:42 K: No, Tunki, just look. You know, as you grow older, very few people are happy. There is too much pressure, there is competition, there is a thousand people for one job, and overpopulation, everything in the world is becoming more and more dangerous.
15:15 And when you observe all this, what is your response to it?
15:25 Q: I know that when I am getting older, I have been watching how my parents seem to me to be getting – I see more of their insecurities and how they are just running around without any meaning to their life, and I feel, in looking at that, that I don't want to be like that when I am their age.
15:47 K: So, most people in the world, you are saying, are seeking security, physical security.
15:55 And perhaps psychological security. And will security, both biological as well as psychological security, give you this sense of flowering?
16:12 I am using the word 'flowering' in the sense growing, like a flower that grows in the field without any hindrance.
16:31 Now, are you seeking security, both?
16:38 And are you seeking security psychologically, inwardly, depending on somebody, depending on belief, an identification with a nation, with a group, or learning a specific technological subject and working at it, and that will give you security, inwardly also?
17:12 Are you seeking psychological security in some kind of knowledge?
17:24 So you have to ask all these questions to find out, haven't you?
17:32 Is there such a thing as psychological security? You understand my question? Do you? I depend on my husband or wife, for many, many reasons: comfort, sex, encouragement, when I feel lonely, depressed, there is somebody who says, all right, you are doing very well, pats me on the back and says, how nice you are, and that makes me feel more comfortable, so gradually I begin to be attached and depend on her, or him.
18:16 And in that relationship there is a certain security. Is there security in that relationship at all? You understand my question? Please, have a dialogue with me, discuss it with me.
18:36 Q: So it is very fragile. It is a very fragile security.
18:41 K: It is very fragile, but is there permanent security in any relationship at all?
18:56 You will fall in love, whatever that word may mean, and for a few years you are attached to each other, you depend on each other, both biologically, psychologically, in every way.
19:18 And in that relationship you are seeking the continuity of that feeling all the time, aren't you?
19:27 Aren't you? At least, you hope to. But before you completely tie yourself in a knot, which is called falling in love and all the rest of it, mustn't you inquire whether there is any security in any relationship between human beings?
19:54 Which doesn't mean hopeless, depressing loneliness.
20:09 Because one is lonely, uncomfortable by oneself, insufficient in oneself, afraid that you cannot live alone, by yourself, so you gradually begin to attach yourself, because you are frightened.
20:36 And so what happens? When you are attached you are equally frightened, because you may lose your attachment.
20:46 That person may run away from you, may fall in love with somebody else.
20:54 So, I think it is very important to ask whether in relationship, is there security?
21:07 And in relationship, what is love? You are following? Is love a sense of great satisfaction, great security? In love.
21:25 You understand? Is there security in relationship?
21:34 And if you find there is no security in relationship then you will have to ask: is there security in love?
21:49 Have you understood? Ha capito? Bene? No? You haven't understood? All right, we will go at it. I am attached to you. I like you. I fall in love with you. I want to get married, have children, sex, etc.
22:15 And this attachment, is it permanent, lasting?
22:28 You understand my question? Or it is very fragile, very shaky, uncertain?
22:38 I want to make it certain, but in reality it is very uncertain.
22:47 So that is one point in relationship. And we say in relationship there is love.
22:57 Now, is there security in love? And what do we mean by love? You understand all this? Are we going together in this or am I talking to myself? Or you are getting bored? So, I want to find out. My first question is: is it possible to bloom, to flower, to grow, to be completely, over the hills and dancing?
23:50 That is what I want to find out in life. Or is life always depressing, lonely, miserable, violent, stupid?
24:03 That is the first thing one wants to find out. And if Brockwood is helping you to bloom.
24:14 And you say in Brockwood there is relationship with each other. You can't help it, we see each other every day.
24:25 And in this relationship you might fall in love with somebody.
24:37 And you get attached to that person. You are following this? When you are attached you want that attachment to continue, don't you, to last endlessly, until both of you collapse at the end of it.
24:59 And you have to find out in that relationship if there is anything permanent. Is that relationship permanent?
25:09 You understand my question? Come on, wake up. Right. And you say it is not permanent – is it?
25:25 How do you know it is not permanent? I may get married, go to the church to be married, or register my marriage, but in that relationship, is there a continuity of real...
25:48 without any conflict, without any quarrels, without isolation, all that.
25:57 So you say there isn't any. Why do you say it? I want to find out why you say it.
26:08 Will you say this when you have fallen in love and married, first year?
26:18 That there is no security in this? What? Will you? Or only after a dozen years or five years, say, oh my God, there is no security at all in this?
26:40 And also you have to find out whether in this relationship of insecurity, of uncertainty, always the fear, boredom, the habits, repetition, seeing the same face over and over again for 50, 20, 30 years.
27:15 And in that relationship will you blossom? You understand my question? Will you grow? Will you be a most extraordinarily beautiful, total entity?
27:34 And also you have to find out whether in so-called 'love' – which is a much used word and spoiled, degraded – whether in that feeling, will you blossom?
28:02 Oh, come on.
28:07 Q: I wonder because if you have a relationship with someone, do we give time to an investigation to know if there is security in it or not?
28:38 Because first of all, what will be in this relationship is much more a relation between two images.
28:59 I don't have time to investigate any further.
29:07 K: Are you saying, we have images of the man and the woman, and in those images or pictures or conclusions, we want those images to continue permanently?
29:32 Q: Not necessarily.
29:41 There are too many superficial things involved in that relationship, then if you realise through investigation into the matter of why there is this relationship.
30:01 Taking apart the image...
30:06 K: Jean-Michel, ecoutez moi. What we are talking about is, first, do you see the importance that one must flower?
30:20 The importance, the truth of it, the reality of it, the necessity of it, the beauty of it, that one must flower?
30:32 Right. Does relationship, as it is now, between two human beings, will that relationship help you to flower?
30:49 That is one point. And we also say we love each other. Will that love nourish the flowering of the human mind, human heart, human qualities?
31:12 You understand? And we are also asking, does Brockwood, being here, help you to grow, to flourish, not technologically only, not become a specialist or this or that, but inwardly, psychologically, under the skin, inside you, that there is nothing that blocks you, hinders you, you are not neurotic, you are not lopsided, you are a whole, complete human being, growing, flowering.
32:00 So you have to ask now: what is love?
32:12 What do you think it is?
32:26 Listen, Tunki. You love your parents and your parents love you. At least, they say so and you say so. Are we on dangerous grounds? Are we? My question is: do they? Don't reply. If they love you they will see to it, from the moment you are born until you die that you are unconditioned, that you flower, because you are a human being, because you are the world.
33:17 And if you do not flower, you are caught in the world, you are destroying the other human beings.
33:25 If the parents loved you they would see that you are properly educated, not technologically, not getting a job only, but inwardly, that you have no conflict and that you are not killed in wars.
33:45 You understand all this? All this is implied when I love my daughter or son.
33:54 I don't want him to be educated and shot to pieces in 20 years time, and put a marble or a cross in a rotten field.
34:09 You understand all this? Or I don't want him to become a first-class businessman, getting a lot of money. What for?
34:23 Or a marvellous specialist. He may help a little bit here and there outwardly, better bridges, better doctors, better medicine, etc.
34:43 So, what is love? You understand my question? What do you think it is? Come on. Isn't it very important for you to find out? Please. Don't you want to find out? when you have observed people around you, parents, friends, your grandmothers, etc., the world around you, and they all use the word 'love', and yet they quarrel, there is competition, they are willing to destroy each other.
35:34 Is that love? What is love to you, then? For God's sake, come on.
35:45 Q: That is what makes it difficult to talk about because you always hear it used in that way.
35:50 K: What do you feel? Talk about what you feel. What is love to you?
36:01 I am sure you use the word 'love', don't you, a great deal. What does it mean?
36:14 You know the word 'hate', the meaning of that word, and you know the feeling of it, don't you, antagonistic, angry, jealous, all that is part of hate.
36:31 Even competition is part of hate.
36:42 So, you know the feeling of what it means to hate people, and you can put it down in words very well.
36:55 Now, is love opposite of that?
37:05 You understand my question?
37:12 Q: The feelings are opposite.
37:16 K: I know. Therefore, can you have both in your mind, in your heart – hate and love?
37:27 Stick to it. Do you have such feelings – hate and love together? Or not together, one is kept in one corner the other is another corner, I hate somebody and I love somebody.
37:50 So if you have love, can you hate anybody?
38:02 Or can you kill something, kill people, throw bombs, all the rest that is happening in the world?
38:19 So, let's go back to the first question: do we see, both the educator and the one that is being educated, do we all see the great importance, the necessity that each human being, all of us here, grow, flower, mature, not merely physically, mature deeply, inwardly?
39:08 If you don't, then what is the point of it all? Then what is the point of your getting educated, passing an exam and getting a degree, and getting a job, if you are lucky, and setting up house?
39:33 Will all that help you, help a human being, or help each other to blossom?
39:41 Oh, come on!
39:54 So, if you were my daughter or my son, that is the first thing I would talk to you about.
40:07 I would say, look, look around you, your friends in the school, the neighbours, see what is happening around you, not according to what you like or what you don't like, just look at the facts, see exactly what is happening, without any distortion.
40:39 People that are married, unhappy, quarrels, endless, you know all that goes on.
40:49 A boy and a girl, they have also their trouble.
41:00 And the division of people, races, groups, the religious groups and the scientific groups and the business group and the artistic group, everything around you is broken up.
41:15 Do you see that? And who has broken it up? You follow? The next question. Human beings have done this. That is, thought has done it.
41:32 Thought that says, I am a Catholic, thought that says, I am a Buddhist, thought that says, I am an Arab, I am a Jew, I am a Muslim, I am a Christian, thought has created this.
41:45 So, thought, in its very nature, in its very action, must bring about fragmentation. Do you see that?
42:03 Thought in its very nature and in its very action must bring about fragmentation, not only in yourself but outwardly.
42:15 Do you see that? Or is it too difficult, this?
42:26 Q: I am not student, but I say yes to that question. Yes, it can.
42:32 K: I am asking each person, the students, I am asking this.
42:42 Do you actually see the fact – please listen carefully – do you actually see the fact that thought in its very nature and action must bring about fragmentation?
42:59 Do you see the fact? Or do you see the idea? You follow? Which is it? Is it an idea or is it a fact?
43:20 Q: An idea.
43:23 K: It is an idea, isn't it? He said it is an idea. Why do you make it into an idea? You understand my question? I say, look around you, the wars, the terrors, bombs, violence, and in every house there is this constant disturbance in relationship, the competitive society, the commercial society, consumerism, do you see it as a fact, as a reality, as this, or is it an abstraction, which is called idea?
44:18 You understand? And if it is an idea, why do you make it into an idea?
44:29 You understand my question?
44:37 Q: If I can come back to that question: whether thought is fragmentary. I would say, what is important is the conditioning, not the thought itself, it is just a mechanism.
44:49 K: No, Tunki, just listen. Why is thought fragmentary? Why is thought in itself limited, fragmentary, broken up?
45:05 In itself, not its result. Why is thought in itself limited?
45:26 Q: From the structure of how it works.
45:33 It is taking something from the past, it is comparing with other things.
45:39 K: Look, Tunki, isn't thought the result of time?
45:48 Be sure, don't agree. Just observe it, find out. Isn't thought the result or the movement of time?
46:03 That is, thought, which is memory, the response of memory, which you all agree, don't you, you see that?
46:12 Memory, experience, knowledge, which is all that, is the past, isn't it, modified in the present, and goes on.
46:30 So, it is a movement of time, isn't it? Oh, come on.
46:42 So, because it is of the past it must be fragmentary.
46:50 Thought can never be the whole.
47:10 Look, Tunki, I have learned English. From the age of nine I have learned English, and other languages.
47:27 And that is a memory, isn't it? It has taken me a few years to learn it, and stored up in the brain, the words, the syntax, how to put the sentences together, all that took time, didn't it?
47:50 And any thought springing from that period of time is limited, isn't it?
47:59 So thought is not whole, complete.
48:08 Thought can never be complete because it is always limited.
48:15 No? Do you see this? Please see this, not as an idea but as an actuality.
48:30 We said thought is the response of memory. Memory is stored up in the brain through experience, through constant accumulation of knowledge, which is memory.
48:46 And when you are ask something, that memory responds. Right? Do you see that? So thought must be limited because memory is limited, knowledge is limited, time is limited.
49:06 My God! Do you see this? Thought has created the problems in the world. You are Dutch, I am German, you are British, he is Chinese, thought has created this, this division.
49:30 Thought has created the religions. The thought that says, Jesus is the greatest saviour, and go to India and they say, sorry, who is that gentleman? I don't know him at all.
49:45 We have our God, much better than yours. Which is, thought has created their God, as thought has created the Christian God.
49:58 So, thought has created the wars, the instruments of war.
50:05 So thought is responsible for all this.
50:16 Q: It is the wrong conditioning of thought which makes this. All these ideas, as you have given examples.
50:26 K: It is not idea, it is a fact!
50:28 Q: Yes, yes.

K: Not, 'Yes, yes.' 'Get on with it.' I am not going to get on with it. I want to stick to this until you see this. Don't be impatient with me. But I am asking you, do you see this fact, that you are Indonesian and I am from India?
50:56 We have different colours, etc., but the division.
51:04 Do you see the division in India, the Muslim and the Hindu?
51:11 Who created it?
51:15 Q: The conditioning of the idea, not the thought itself. I may say yes, I know the difference but I don't care.
51:25 K: You don't care but the people who hate each other care.
51:31 Q: But there is something behind that thought.
51:33 K: What is behind the thought? Conditioning. My parents have said to me I am a Brahmin, I am a Hindu, and your parents have said, you are a Christian.
51:50 Q: I think it is deeper than that, the instinct to belong to a group...
51:59 K: Wait. The instinct to belong to a group, why? Because that is much safer, to belong to a community.
52:08 Q: That is more the cause of the whole trouble.
52:12 K: That is because you have recognised, identified yourself with a small group.
52:21 Why don't you identify yourself with the total human being, with all the human beings in the world?
52:28 Why the small group?
52:37 You have understood? So I am pointing out: thought has created all these human, psychological and worldly problems.
52:51 There is no denying it.
52:58 Do you see that as a fact, not as an idea?
53:05 As a fact, as when you have a toothache, that is a fact. You don't say, it isn't an idea, 'I will think about my toothache.'
53:24 So, let's put it that way: is thought love?
53:34 Can thinking bring about love? You understand? Please, we are discussing this. What do you say?
53:52 Q: Do you mean do you have to think if you love somebody...
53:56 K: Jean-Michel, I am asking you: can love be cultivated by thought?
54:19 Q: It is another conditioning though.
54:24 K: You are not answering. We said thought is fragmentary, will always be fragmentary.
54:40 The United Nations is fragmentary, put together by thought.
54:49 And I am asking the next question: thought, being fragmented, and in its activity, in its action it must bring about fragmentation, can that thought cultivate, bring about love?
55:12 What do you say?
55:16 Q: No.
55:18 K: Now, when you say no – be careful, I am going to trip you on this – when you say no, is it again an idea or an actuality?
55:27 It is not.
55:36 If it is an actuality, something that is 'what is', then where love is concerned there is no movement of thought.
56:04 Do you understand this, a little bit? Not understand up here, but inwardly, deeply.
56:20 Q: What do you mean?

K: Look, be careful. If thought is not love, then what is our relationship?
56:35 Then what is relationship? Which now is based on thought, isn't it? If thought is not love then what do you do with the actual relationship that you have now?
56:54 You understand my question?
57:01 I see the fact, not the idea, the fact, that thought is not love.
57:12 But I am married, I have got children, I have got my mother. My mother, my children, my wife, we have images about each other, interacting relationship.
57:34 That interacting relationship is the action of images, which I have made about my grandmother, about my wife, about my children, and this I call love.
57:51 I love my grandmother, I love my wife, I love my children.
57:58 Now, I am saying, I see this relationship is based on thought, on image.
58:12 And I also see very clearly that love is not the product of thought.
58:20 Love cannot be thought. Then what happens to my relationship with my grandmother, with my wife and my children? Is this too difficult?
58:32 Q: How do I see that?
58:34 K: What do you mean, how do I see it? There is no how. It isn't a mechanical thing. Don't you see this actually, Tunki?
58:54 No? Are you saying no? Be simple. What are you saying?
59:07 Q: Well, as you say, that love has nothing to do with all that.
59:13 K: Love has nothing to do with thought, full stop.
59:23 Because I see very clearly thought is a movement in fragmentation.
59:33 I see that very clearly. It is a fact, it is an actuality, not an idea. But I am married, I have got children, I have got a grandmother. When I realise that my relationship has been based on images and thought, I see it, then what takes place when I see the actual fact?
1:00:03 You understand what I am saying, some of you? You have all gone to sleep.
1:00:16 Is it lunch time?

Q: No.
1:00:18 K: No, right.
1:00:25 Q: That love, using that word, that relationship with images which is usually called love, but do you mean that love, you are saying, is different from this?
1:00:45 K: Look, Tunki, I have been repeating this from this morning. Which is this, Tunki: I am married, I fell in love, whatever that may mean, and I am married, I have been married for a number of years, with a lot of children.
1:01:03 I have an image about my wife. I have created it. She has nagged me, she has bullied me, she has dominated me, or I have dominated her or I have bullied her, this interaction going on, sexually, etc.
1:01:17 I have built a picture about her and she has built a picture about me. That is a fact. That is, this image-building is the movement of thought. Right? Don't move – unless you see this don't move from that.
1:01:41 Now, you come along and tell me thought is a movement of fragmentation, and you explain to me very carefully why it is, because it is bound by time, bound by memory, bound by knowledge, therefore it is very limited, and I see that.
1:02:07 And the next step is, I say, what am I to do when I have seen that in my relationship with my grandmother, wife and children?
1:02:23 You have understood this, some of you? So what happens when I realise that my relationship with my wife, or girl or boy, or whatever it is, is a movement of time and fragmentation?
1:02:52 You follow? Do you see this? Right. If you see it, then what is love?
1:03:02 Is love the same thing as this?
1:03:09 Love is a fragment, fragmentation? Love is a picture, an image, a remembrance?
1:03:22 This is too difficult.
1:03:28 Q: The first feeling in love, or you see something beautiful, that is love, but then the thought would like to crystallise those.
1:03:41 K: Tunki, you see something beautiful. Do you? Don't say, yes, something beautiful, do you actually see something beautiful?
1:03:57 That tree – listen – when you look at a tree or a woman or a man or a cloud or a sheet of water, do you see how extraordinarily beautiful it is and remain with that? Do you?
1:04:13 Do you see it or is it an idea that is beautiful?
1:04:21 Q: At that moment I do really see it.
1:04:25 K: Now, you see it, what takes place at that moment?
1:04:37 Q: There are no words anymore.
1:04:38 K: Which means what? No thought. Right?

Q: Yes.
1:04:44 K: So beauty takes place when there is no movement of thought.
1:04:53 You agree to this?

Q: Yes.

K: Why?
1:05:00 You are altogether in this. How extraordinary. Wait, Tunki!
1:05:16 When you see something beautiful there is the absence of thought.
1:05:29 Now, can you stay and not wander away from it, stay in that moment, watching that cloud?
1:05:45 Because there is no thought in operation, there is no chattering. Thought is totally absent when you see something extraordinarily beautiful.
1:05:57 Right? Now, watch it carefully, listen carefully. Please listen carefully. The cloud, with its light, with its immensity, has taken you over.
1:06:17 Right? Do you see this? The cloud has absorbed you. Which means you, in that absorption, are absent. Do you see this? Come on!

Q: Yes.

K: Right, next step. A child is absorbed in the toy.
1:06:51 Remove the toy, he is back to his mischief.
1:06:59 That is exactly what has happened. The cloud has taken you, absorbed you, and when the cloud goes away you are back to yourself.
1:07:12 Right? Now, listen carefully. Can you, without being absorbed by the mountain, by the cloud, by the tree, by the song of a bird, by the beauty of the land, not be absorbed but be totally empty in yourself?
1:07:34 I wonder. Ha capito? Vous avez compris? You understand? Remove the toy, the child is back to his naughtiness, tearing, yelling, shouting.
1:07:59 But give him a toy, the toy takes him over. I am asking you, without the toy, and therefore nothing to absorb you, can there be an absence of yourself?
1:08:18 You understand? Oh, do answer this. Find out, for God's sake. See the beauty of this. So beauty is, when you are not.
1:08:40 Beauty is, when thought is absent.
1:08:49 Now, love is not thought, is it?
1:08:58 You see the connection? You begin to see the connection? I won't discuss it. If you see the connection, leave it.
1:09:11 I love you, you have absorbed me, because I want you, you look nice, you smell nice, you have got nice hair, my glands demand all kinds of sex, and so on.
1:09:29 So, you have absorbed me. I fall in love with you, that is the absorption – a very good idea – and I cling to you. I love you.
1:09:47 But my old self asserts itself and says, yes, that was very nice two years ago, but now I dislike her.
1:09:56 I fell in love with her face and look what has happened.
1:10:04 So please see the truth of this, that where there is beauty there is total absence of thought.
1:10:17 So love is total absence of 'me'.
1:10:24 Right? Got it? If you have got it you have drunk at the fountain of life. You understand?
1:10:41 Q: So, if there is any feeling, does the feeling include when you have been absorbed, or is it another word.
1:10:55 K: Jean-Michel, ecoutez. What is feeling? If there is no thought would you have feelings? Look at it. Careful, look at it.
1:11:19 Is beauty feeling?
1:11:31 We said beauty is without thought. And is there a feeling when there is no thought?
1:11:57 Tunki, leave all the rest, get the kernel of it, the meat of it, the inside of it, instead of putting all the details together.
1:12:12 The details can come later, but see the truth of this one thing, that is, where there is beauty there is no thought.
1:12:23 Where there is love there is the absence of 'me', who is chattering, chattering, problems, anxiety, fear.
1:12:35 When there is the absence of me, there is love. Right?
1:13:02 Q: I haven't understood the step when you look at a cloud, it goes, and you fall back into yourself.
1:13:12 I haven't understood.
1:13:19 K: Jean-Michel, have you seen a little boy give the little girl a doll?
1:13:29 Perfectly happy, she is quiet, not restless, not crying.
1:13:37 Give the boy a toy, a complicated toy, he will take an hour over it.
1:13:46 He has forgotten to be naughty. So what has happened there? The toy, the doll, has become all-important.
1:14:03 So when you see a cloud, or something beautiful, or water, or a bird flying in the air, when you see that – I am tired of repeating – when you see that, what takes place?
1:14:28 Your chattering stops, doesn't it? Because that is much more interesting. When you see a film, a Western film, or whatever film you see, you are looking at it, you don't think about all your problems, all your worry, your fears, you are just absorbed by that, aren't you?
1:14:49 Stop the film and you are back to yourself. No?
1:14:58 Q: And then what?
1:15:01 K: What?
1:15:13 So you see, if you push this much further, ideas are your toys, ideals are your toys, religions are your toys, and they take over all of you, but the moment they are questioned, disturbed, you are back to yourself and you get frightened.
1:15:45 So, I have said everything.
1:15:47 Q: Is there one thing which is out of this world of toys?
1:15:56 K: I showed it to you, Tunki.
1:15:59 Q: Yes, yes, but...
1:16:00 K: Not yes, but, but, but! I am going to stick to you. Look, Tunki, listen carefully, please, we said thought has created this world, the wars, the businessman, the artist, the politician, the crook – society has made all this.
1:16:25 Society is our relationship to each other, which is based on thought. So thought is responsible for this awful mess. Is it so, or is it an idea?
1:16:48 If you say it is an idea then you are not looking at the actual facts.
1:16:55 So, move from there. Thought, we said, is broken up. Whatever it does will break up.
1:17:11 And do you see that as an actuality, as something real, there, as you see me?
1:17:18 Me is not an idea, I am sitting here. You might like to make an idea of me but the actual fact is I am sitting here.
1:17:36 Q: The mechanical thought is just a part, but something which uses it, behind it...
1:17:45 K: You have nothing else but mechanical thought.
1:17:54 When that mechanical thought stops then there is something else, but you can't say, yes, that is mechanical, let's look into the other.
1:18:06 That has to stop. And that stops, say for instance, when you see beauty, something like a vast range of mountains with snow covered peaks and all that, the majesty of it, the grandeur of it takes you over.
1:18:30 And when that mountain is not there you are back home with your quarrels. That is all. So I am saying, Tunki, please find out, sit down, meditate, go into it for yourself: that where there is beauty there is total absence of this mischievous thought.
1:18:50 And love is like that too.
1:19:04 Is that enough?

Q: Well...
1:19:16 Q: The next question is maybe for dealing with on Monday: it is all very well in a real quiet place, but...
1:19:29 K: It is all very well, Tunki says, but I have got to go back to Java, to Indonesia, and I have to deal with my uncle and aunts and mother and grandmothers, and all the rest of it, and the money-making, what am I to do?
1:19:46 Is that it?
1:19:55 I am asking you, is that it?

Q: Yes.
1:19:58 K: Why don't you say it loud? Yes. That is the problem with all of us. What are you going to do? When you realise, when you see actually that thought is the most mischievous thing, except technologically and all the rest of it, it is the most deadly thing in relationship and therefore destroys love, what are you going to do?
1:20:31 You have to earn money, a livelihood, which demands thought. So you exercise thought there. When you have got to go to the dentist you exercise thought there. When you have to buy a suit or a dress, you compare, this is better material, this is cheaper.
1:20:55 That requires thought. But you realise that thought is deadly in relationship.
1:21:09 That is all. Pax. Don't ask any more questions. Pax.
1:21:22 I think that is enough, don't you? Right.