BR77DSS2.4 - Why does the brain register?
Brockwood Park, UK - 9 October 1977
Discussion with Staff and Students 2.4
0:20 | Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about? |
0:28 | Questioner: There is always a lot of energy and interest at the beginning of the year but that goes away as the year goes on. |
0:38 | K: Why do we lose our energy as the year goes by, as the term ends? |
0:45 | Anything else you want to talk about? |
1:06 | Q: Many of us are not very clear as to what to do after leaving Brockwood. |
1:16 | Like they are students here now, who study, learning so many things, and then inevitably one has to leave and go out into the world, and having been here, one feels one doesn't want to do most of the things that are possible for one to do in the world. |
1:53 | And so you are stuck there, so to speak. You don't know how to channel your energy. |
1:57 | K: Are you saying that we would like to stay on here but we can't, and we are faced with the world with all its violence, etc., and what is one to do – is that it? |
2:16 | Q: Yes. |
2:21 | Q: Could we talk about intelligence? |
2:24 | K: Could we talk about intelligence. |
2:33 | Intelligence, what is one to do, and what else, what is the other? |
2:43 |
Dorothy Simmons: Energy. K: Energy. Intelligence, what is one to do, and the loss of energy. One has plenty of energy when the term begins but as the term ends, it rather goes down. |
3:00 |
So what shall talk about, shall we begin with intelligence?
Shall we? Q: Yes. |
3:09 | K: And see if it will help us when we have to face the world. |
3:17 | After all, as we were saying, here at Brockwood we are trying to awaken intelligence. |
3:26 | Not the cunning intelligence of thought but intelligence that is not born of thought. |
3:37 | We have talked considerably about that. Let's go into it again, shall we? |
3:48 | Do we see the difference between the cunning, subtle, and rather deceptive intelligence that thought has cultivated? |
4:04 | Do we see that, first? The cunning intelligence that one has to survive – and one must survive, naturally – the cunning intelligence of competition and achieving a certain position, status, and holding on to that, whether it is in the factory, in a profession, or in various forms of careers. |
4:37 | There, you need a certain kind of brutal, driving, self-interested intelligence. |
4:52 | Do we see that? Let's be very clear about it, otherwise we can't find the other. |
5:04 | The intelligence of thought that finds security in nationalism, in belief, in various forms of escape, in religions, dogmas, rituals, careers and so on – all that is the product of thought with its intelligence. |
5:26 | Right? Is this clear? Is there any other kind of intelligence, which is not merely the product of thought, or it has nothing to do with thought, altogether? |
5:45 | Is there such intelligence? Because if we don't find that kind of intelligence, thought then, with all its cunning intelligence, begins to destroy the world about us and ourselves in conflict, in violence, in brutality, in all kinds of miserable unhappiness and so on. |
6:08 | Is that somewhat clear? |
6:15 | No? Please, let's talk it over together, I don't want to talk by myself. |
6:26 | So would you consider that activity, which is self-destructive ultimately, that kind of intelligence, do we see its results? |
6:45 | Division in every form: religious, political, career, divisions in professions, – all through our culture, our existence, there is this division brought about by thought with its cunning desire to be completely secure both physiologically, biologically, and psychologically – completely secure in something that thought has created and to hold that, to proceed in it, you must have a certain kind of intelligence. |
7:36 | No? Is this clear? Not because I am saying it, but do you see for yourself? |
7:49 | It needs an extraordinary thoughtful intelligence to go to the moon. Right? |
7:56 | But when you get to the moon you stick an American flag or a Russian flag – it is so absurd. |
8:12 | So that intelligence maintains its division, its conflicts, its struggles, both inwardly and outwardly, which is gradually destroying the world. |
8:27 | The world in the sense: human beings, their environment, their nature, the air, pollution and all that. |
8:38 | Now, if one understands that very clearly, that intelligence is not going to solve our human problems, then we have to ask ourselves if there is a different kind of intelligence which will not bring about conflict with each other, which is not your intelligence or my intelligence, but it is intelligence. |
9:05 | Am I going too fast? What do you say to all this? |
9:17 | Is there such intelligence? We are going to find out. Don't let us, for the moment, define what the other intelligence is or a different kind of intelligence, because definition then becomes a framework in which we are caught. |
9:42 | So we will first examine the intelligence that thought, in its desire to survive, etc., has brought about. |
9:55 | Do we have an insight into that kind of intelligence which is destructive? |
10:02 | Insight. You know what I mean by insight? To see both objectively, outwardly and inwardly, what that intelligence, the thoughtful intelligence with its cunning, etc., has done. |
10:19 | Do we have an insight? Do you see the truth of it? |
10:27 | Having an insight implies seeing without any distortion the truth and the consequence of this intelligence which thought has brought about. |
10:47 | Have an insight into it, look into it and find out the absolute truth of it. |
11:00 | You understand? No? You don't see it. All right. Let's go into it a little bit more. When you see a danger of any kind you move away from that danger, don't you? |
11:25 | Why? Because it will destroy you, it will hurt you, it will kill you. |
11:37 | There is the natural instinct of self-preservation. |
11:44 | Right? Now, do you see the danger of division – politically, religiously, geographically, nationally? |
11:59 | Do you see the danger of it? Actually. Not theoretically, not as abstraction, but you can see what is happening in the world. |
12:13 | There is the Hindu, the Muslim, the communist, the socialist, the Arab, the Jew, the American, the Russian – the division, which is very destructive. |
12:26 | You see the danger of that, don't you? That seeing the danger is the insight. |
12:35 | No? |
12:48 | Do you see it? Do you see the danger of division? |
13:01 | Not optically or as an idea, but actual fact, as you see the fact of a bull in a field – the danger of it. |
13:19 | Do you? |
13:22 | Q: What do you mean, 'not optically? |
13:25 | K: When you see a bull – seeing visually. |
13:30 | Q: You are saying it is not either visual nor intellectual. |
13:34 | K: First see it, visually, see what it has done, how the world is divided: nationally, religiously, politically, economically, each country holding on to itself, the politicians helping to keep this division. |
13:58 | That is a tremendous danger, isn't it? |
14:08 | How do you see it? How do you feel about it? As an idea? Or is it an actuality which you have observed and say, how terrible this is? |
14:30 | Do you understand? Go on, express yourself a little bit, even though there are people from outside, it doesn't matter, find out. Do you see it actually? |
14:45 | Do you see it as actually as you have pain in your leg or in your arm? Is it as actual? |
14:59 | Q: That is hard to say. I can't say it that way. |
15:08 | K: No, you don't have to read the newspaper. Just look at what is happening. |
15:21 | Britain says, I am first, British goods, British, British – that is first. |
15:32 | Q: Yes, but I read about that. |
15:34 | K: You read about it, all right. And you see it here too, when you walk down the streets, when you go into town, you see it, actually. |
15:46 | Q: And you can hear people arguing about it. |
15:48 | K: Yes, the whole business of it. And is it an actuality to you or is it an idea, an abstraction from what you have seen? |
16:05 | I am sorry to insist on this, but otherwise we won't be able to go much further. |
16:12 | Is it an idea you see, the idea being: observing what is taking place and from that conclude an idea, and then say, I agree with the idea. |
16:29 | Or do you see the fact alone, not make a conclusion from the fact? |
16:41 |
You see it? Q: Yes. |
16:45 | Q: In seeing the division, just see that happening. |
16:51 | K: That is an actuality. Come on. So when you see it so clearly, that division is a destructive way of living, you have an insight into it, don't you? |
17:10 | Q: Yes. |
17:13 | K: That insight is intelligence, which is not the intelligence of thought. |
17:20 | Q: That is the point. I don't see the difference between the intelligence and the intelligence of thought. |
17:28 | K: If somebody understands this, explain it. |
17:33 | Q: I don't understand what you mean by the intelligence of thought. |
17:39 | Q: You could say that intelligence of thought is more like logically, step-by-step working things out, and intelligence of seeing things that happen around you is more like just seeing it, and knowing what is going on, without working it out. |
18:06 | Q: One question is: what place has thinking in this perception that you are talking about? |
18:15 |
Because to some degree it seems you have to think about it,
before you perceive the danger. K: Of course. |
18:22 | K: We went through all that a dozen times before. |
18:25 | Q: Yes, but we are still confused about it. |
18:35 | K: What is the problem in this? |
18:50 | Even purely objectively there is national division, isn't there? |
19:06 | Like the Hindu and the Muslim, the Jew and Arab and so on – the national, linguistic division. |
19:18 | Isn't that very harmful to the rest of the world, for mankind, when there is all this division taking place? |
19:27 | Is there? |
19:29 |
Q: Yes, I can see this very clearly. K: Now, stop there. When you say, 'I can see this very clearly', what do you mean by those words 'see very clearly'? |
19:49 | See it as an idea? See it because I am talking about it and have drawn a conclusion from it, and then you see, you agree with the conclusion? |
20:07 | Let's be very clear about it, when we say, I see. |
20:18 | Perhaps Dr Bohm could explain this a little bit more. I will take a rest. Sorry to pull you in this. |
20:36 | If you don't want to, it is all right. Go ahead. |
20:43 | David Bohm: The question is only you may see something immediately and then you form an idea about it and replace what you see by the idea, very rapidly. |
21:05 | If you see the danger of nationalism immediately, then immediately action takes place, but if you form an idea then you are merely thinking about it, from the past. |
21:23 | K: You have got it? |
21:28 | Q: What do you mean when you say from the past? |
21:30 | DB: If you have an idea, you put it in terms of things you already know. To make an idea about nationalism, you could make a framework of thought about what is a nation. |
21:43 | I have an idea about what nations are, an idea about how they behave, and so on. |
21:52 | So the whole thing has been recorded, registered in the past, and you can always come back to that idea and say, that is what it is. |
22:03 | Like if you form an idea of another person, you could say he is that sort of a person and you will always think of him that way instead of actually seeing him. |
22:17 | K: Look, when you say, I love you, is the feeling an idea or an actuality? |
22:30 | Go on, this you can answer. You do tell somebody, I like you, don't you? |
22:41 | Don't be shy. |
22:48 | Now, does the word 'love', the word, is that word an idea or represents an actual fact? |
23:05 | Come on, for goodness sake, you are all so silent. There are too many people, of course, I understand. We will thrash it out when we all meet the students. Right? |
23:23 | So, we are asking, do we live in ideas or do we live with actual facts? |
23:36 | Facts, say for instance, 'I do not like' – that is a fact – or, I like somebody, or I am hungry – that is a fact. |
23:52 | Now, in the same way, is nationalism a fact, in your blood? |
23:59 | See the danger of it, not as an idea but a poisonous thing that will destroy you. |
24:07 | Is that clear? Does this make it somewhat clear? |
24:13 |
Q: Yes. K: Right? |
24:17 |
K: Somebody say yes. Q: Yes. |
24:22 | K: So, let's proceed from there. |
24:29 | When you say, yeah, do you feel the truth of it? |
24:42 | The actual state when there is division, there is destruction, do you feel it in your guts, do you feel it as something real? |
25:00 | That feeling, that insight, that mind that says, yes, it is absolutely true, has an insight into the whole structure of nationalism, with all its dangers and so on. |
25:20 | So in the same way, if you look in the wider field – not just nationalism, that is a small affair – in the wider field, which thought, through all its devious ways, through thousands of years of cultivation of thought, memory, – because in itself it is fragmentary, we went in that: thought itself being fragmentary, whatever it creates must be fragmentary – do you have an insight into that? |
26:08 | Saying, yes, I see the truth of it. Not argument, not explanation and pros and cons, but the truth of something like that. |
26:32 | So, let's go on. Now, intelligence then is to have this extraordinary insight into things immediately. |
26:46 | That is the action of intelligence. |
26:53 | Which is not the intelligence which thought has created. |
26:59 | Q: Can we go into what prevents this other intelligence? |
27:06 | K: First see this, then we can find out how does this happen, why does thought become so dominant, with all its divisions and fragmentation? |
27:28 | It thinks it sees the whole, but being a fragment, it can never see the whole. |
27:37 | So let's go into it. We began the other day talking about registration, do you remember? |
27:48 | The brain, we said, registers – I am not an expert on brains, I have just watched oneself – the brain registers. |
28:01 | The origin of thought begins with registration. We went into it. No? Yes? |
28:14 | Q: We went into it with the staff, is that what you are thinking? We may not have gone into it with the full student group. |
28:22 | K: With the full group. Shall we go into it? Because unless we go into this you won't understand what is that intelligence which is not of thought. |
28:33 | I am sorry. May I go into it a little bit? Would it be too difficult? No. If you think I am making it difficult, jump on me, will you? |
28:49 | I will try and make it very simple. You remember something, don't you? Someone has hurt you or someone has been pleasant to you. You remember that. Now, how does that take place? Let's be very, very simple. |
29:18 | You call me a fool. I listen to the words, I know the meaning of that word, and it is registered in the brain. |
29:33 | It is registered, like the tape, like a recorder, it is registered. |
29:41 | Then from that registration, thought begins – that I don't like you because you called me a fool. |
29:50 | Or somebody says, how nice you are, that is registered and I am very friendly to him – thought begins. |
29:58 | So, thought begins whenever there is any kind of registration. |
30:05 | Obvious, isn't it? |
30:10 |
DB: But why does it begin when there is registration?
It is not entirely clear. K: What, sir? |
30:16 | DB: Why does it begin whenever there is registration? Why always? |
30:22 | K: You understand the question? Why does the brain register at all? |
30:34 | If it didn't, what would happen? |
30:42 | If you called me a fool, if you insulted me, there is no registration of any kind, what would happen? |
30:50 | Go on, find out. What would happen? |
30:55 |
Q: Are you saying that you can't respond to anything with thought,
unless you register it first? K: No, listen to my question, first. |
31:02 | If you didn't register at all, what would happen? Mary Zimbalist: Do you mean psychologically? |
31:07 | K: Psychologically, as well as the other way. If didn't register how to drive a car, what would happen? |
31:18 | MZ: You would be a vegetable if you didn't register. |
31:19 | K: I would just be a vegetable. If I didn't register how to speak a language, the structure of language and so on. |
31:32 | If I registered nothing, if this brain doesn't register anything, I will just be God knows what. |
31:42 | So, registration is a form of protection, is a form of security. |
31:51 | Right? |
31:54 | Q: Isn't it more a form of functioning, to function? |
32:01 | When you register, it gives you the basis to function. |
32:07 | K: Yes, that is right. So, there is necessary registration, which is to earn money, have clothes, shelter, and there is unnecessary registration, which is the whole psychological structure. |
32:35 | Is this too difficult? |
32:38 | Q: How do you mean it is unnecessary? |
32:45 | K: Look, to live in this world I must have certain knowledge, mustn't I? In the modern world or even in the ancient world or even the most primitive society, closed, tribal society, there must be a certain kind of registration of physical necessities. |
33:08 | Right? Now, why do we register psychological things, inward things? |
33:22 | You call me a fool. Why should I register it? |
33:30 | Q: Isn't it the same as when you register, when you see a work of art? |
33:41 | K: No, I am asking you, why do you register, remember, hold on to, if I call you a fool – why should you? |
33:52 | It is a waste of energy. |
33:56 | Q: But for me it seems very important. |
33:58 | K: Why? |
34:02 |
Q: I am not quite sure. K: Find out. Don't say to me it is very important – why should it be important to you? |
34:07 | Q: Maybe it is because, then you take into account what that person has the capability of doing. |
34:16 | Like assessing them. |
34:18 | K: You remember it, don't you, because it has hurt you? |
34:22 | Q: And they have the capability of doing it again. |
34:24 | K: Just keep it to a simple thing. You remember it because he has hurt you, by calling you a fool. Why should you remember that hurt? Don't immediately answer. Find out why you hold on to a hurt. |
34:44 | Q: Every time you are hurt, your security is somehow shattered, you feel a bit lost. |
34:51 | Every time someone hurts you, the security of your brain is in a way, a bit shattered. |
34:57 | K: That is right. Hasn't thought created an image first, what you are? That you are not a fool, that you are really quite clever, that you look marvellous, that you are beautiful, that you are this and that. |
35:18 | So, he calls me a fool and that image is hurt. But I am asking you why do you create the image and why do you keep on holding to that hurt which thought has created as the image? |
35:36 | Come on, you will see it in a minute if you look at it. |
35:47 | You tell me I am not clever. That hurts because I have an image about myself, which thought has created, saying, I am awfully clever because I have talked to so many people, I have been all over the world, and this and that. |
36:05 | And you come along and say, don't be an idiot. |
36:13 | I am hurt because I have an image that I am awfully bright and all the rest of the rubbish. |
36:23 | Now, why do I keep it? Why does the brain keep this image? |
36:39 | Don't answer anything but this question, answer this. Why does the brain keep this image? |
36:49 | Q: Because it gives you a sense of identity, of what you are. |
36:55 | Q: Permanence, security. |
36:58 | K: So, as he said, security, and identification with that security, and when you say I am an idiot, I am hurt. |
37:09 | Because if I had no image I would never be hurt, but to have no image is to be completely insecure. |
37:25 | Q: I don't know. |
37:26 | Q: So you want to be hurt? |
37:30 | K: Not you want to be hurt, you are hurt. Wait, first see. First see, from childhood, each one of us, by the parents, by the friends, through all the social etc., education, I have built an image about myself, as you have. |
37:58 | Right? Yes or no? Right. That is, this image has been created by thought and that is registered in the brain. |
38:20 | You come along and say I am a damn fool. That image is shaken, is hurt, and that hurt is maintained, is kept, psychologically. |
38:42 | I am asking, why should we carry about these images which are not facts? |
38:59 | I think I am great man – God forbid – because I haven't met other great men, or if I meet them, I kind of crawl out of their presence because I may be hurt, I may feel rather stupid, and so I move away from them. |
39:19 | And so I live with people who call me great. And I am completely secure in that. So, the creation by thought of an image, that gives to the brain a certain quality of security. |
39:47 | That is simple, isn't it? No? We agree? We see that? Not agree, I am sorry. Do you see that? Let's move from there. So, where are we? I am saying, this psychological registration is unnecessary. |
40:18 | That is all I am saying. If you have no psychological registration, but only the other kind of registration – knowledge and so on – then you will never be hurt. |
40:42 |
Is this too much? Q: No. |
40:46 | K: When you say no, is it to you an idea or a fact? |
40:52 |
Q: Fact. K: Which means you have no image. |
41:00 |
K: You see something, therefore no image. Q: Yeah. |
41:04 | K: No, don't say, yeah, find out. That you have no image about yourself. To see the danger of the image is intelligence. |
41:24 | Because you have an insight, you see what is implied in it. |
41:27 | Q: Why is the image dangerous? |
41:34 | K: Why is the image dangerous. Gee Willikins! I am a Catholic. I have been brought up in Catholicism from childhood and I accept all their dogmas, all their beliefs, all their rituals, Jesus, etc. |
41:56 |
And you are a – what? Q: A Jew. |
42:04 | K: If I am a Catholic, I worship Jesus who was a Jew. |
42:17 | Sorry! You don't believe in all the things which I believe. What is the relationship between us? |
42:27 | Q: It is easy when you give an example like that, but... |
42:31 | K: Carry that same example right through. |
42:39 | When the image becomes very important to me, because all my security is in that image. |
42:51 | I have no relationship with another who has not got the same image, same etc., otherwise there is a division between us. |
43:04 | So, any form of image – political, religious, educational – any form of image which I have brings about a natural division. |
43:20 | So we are asking is it possible not to have an image at all? |
43:33 | Q: What if you say that to the Catholic? He will say, I will be completely lost, I will be insecure. |
43:39 | K: He is frightened if he has no image. Which means what? Go into it, don't just stop there. |
43:56 | He is frightened of not having an image. |
44:03 | So he holds the image, that is his attachment, his security, his whole investment, every psychological thing is invested in there. |
44:17 | And to see the danger of it would shatter, would destroy my psychological identification with that image, etc. |
44:32 | – it would bring about a great uncertainty. I am frightened. So, when there is fear I have no insight into the danger of it. You see the point? So I am just building a wall around myself, preventing you from telling me, it is absurd, all this. |
45:03 | You understand? So, any form of image that one has about oneself is bound to bring about division and then conflict. |
45:19 | Do you see that as a reality, as a fact? |
45:28 | And do you see the danger of it? Then if you see the danger, seeing the danger is intelligence. |
45:40 | Then you have finished, there is no image. Then that intelligence is supreme security. |
45:53 | Because that intelligence is neither yours or mine, therefore that intelligence is operating all the time without the image operating. |
46:05 | I am getting very hot, aren't you? |
46:12 | Do you understand this? Because, as we said, it is part of your education at Brockwood – when you leave this place, you are supremely intelligent, not the intelligence of thought. |
46:39 | Then that intelligence meets life, the whole problem of life: sexual, occupation, what to do, everything is answered by that intelligence. |
46:56 | So our point is, is it possible to awaken that intelligence while you are here? |
47:10 | Because the moment you leave, the world is too much. There are a lot of wolves waiting. They want you to do this, society tells you to do this, your parents tell you something else, you yourself want to do something else – this chaos that is going on. |
47:46 | So, let's go back. |
47:49 | Q: May I ask a question? Intelligence – you are talking about intelligence as if it is something that you reach and then you have it, it is there, it never ceases. |
48:18 | But actually, intelligence ceases all the time. |
48:28 | Sometimes you have an insight in something and an hour later, you are as stupid as before. |
48:38 | K: Ah, I see what you mean. Occasionally, you are all that clear bright intelligence and on other occasions, you are not. |
48:53 | How does this happen? Is that it? |
48:55 |
Q: Yes, that is it. K: Very simple. |
49:02 | K: When you see a dangerous animal, do you see it sometimes as being dangerous, other times not? |
49:11 | Watch it. Think about it carefully. |
49:18 | When you see a deadly serpent, a rattler or a cobra, or different kinds of poisonous snakes which are deadly, do you see sometimes that they are dangerous and other times not? |
49:39 | You know they are dangerous all the time, unless their fangs are pulled out or something or other. |
49:46 | You see the danger night and day, you don't deviate from that danger. |
49:54 | Which means that you don't really see the danger, completely, of having an image. |
50:08 | Sometimes it is pleasant to have that image and so you say, by Jove, it is very nice, and go on for a while and suddenly remember that it is dangerous. |
50:24 | Which means one doesn't see very clearly the danger of division, the danger brought about by images. |
50:34 | Images being conclusions, ideals – the communist conclusion, the Catholic conclusion. |
50:59 | While you are still young, if I may ask, have you got conclusions? |
51:11 | Which is another form of image, isn't it? Right? Good. So have you got conclusions, opinions about politics, about everything? |
51:27 | Have you? That means your image is your conclusions, your judgements, your opinions. |
51:43 | So I have my conclusions, my opinions and you have yours. So we discuss, we argue, we never meet. Whereas if we had no conclusions: let's talk it over, find out. |
52:00 | Then your mind and my mind meets. |
52:09 | Right, sir? Now proceed, go into it further. |
52:13 | Q: It is just that when you talk something over or think it over, K: Say it louder, sir, I can't hear. |
52:22 | Q: When you think or talk something over, isn't it so that you always come to a conclusion, or a final way of thinking about it? |
52:32 | K: Now, wait a minute. You and I have concluded that that is a carpet. There is no agreement about it, it is so. If both of us agree that is not a carpet, it is so. |
52:54 | But if we were to say that is not a carpet and agree, we are in a state of illusion. |
53:04 | But because I like my illusion, I refuse to leave my illusion, however much I argue, however much I may discuss with you, however much you may threaten me, I still stick to my conclusion, that is not a carpet, because I love my illusion. |
53:21 | I think that is the skin of a zebra. |
53:30 | So, find out if you have a conclusion to which you are clinging, which is very important, or you are free to look. |
53:46 | We said the other day, a real scientist is an observer, observes. |
53:58 | And if he, from that observation concludes a certain... |
54:07 | then that conclusion becomes important, it may be useful for society, but he has moved away from science, from observation. |
54:16 | – which may be right, that is irrelevant, for the time being. So, do we have illusions of such kind? |
54:29 | Because then you can't think clearly, you can't observe, see clearly. |
54:38 | So, let's go back. Let's start again and find out why the brain registers at all. |
54:54 | The brain, as we said, is like the Nagra tape recorder there. It is registering every word that we have spoken so far. |
55:07 | And one sees the importance that certain forms of registration are necessary. |
55:16 | Is this clear? How to drive a car, language, capacity to earn a livelihood, those kinds of registration are absolutely necessary. |
55:32 | Without knowledge I can't drive a car, without the accumulation of words in English, I cannot speak English, or French or whatever it is. |
55:44 | So, registration of a certain kind is absolutely necessary to live in this world. |
55:59 | Then why do we have any other form of registration? Why do I say I am a Hindu? It is so unnecessary. |
56:11 | Q: Here is where I don't understand. Apart from registering physical things, apart from registering things which are necessary we also register, say, when we listen to beautiful music... |
56:30 | K: Wait a minute, follow it, carefully. When you listen to music, do you register? |
56:41 | This morning, I was listening to Schubert – The Trout, played marvellously, it was extraordinary. |
56:53 | Why should it be registered, to remember, to say, that is Schubert, that is is The Trout – why? |
57:05 | If I want to teach you piano, that is technical knowledge, isn't it? |
57:18 | But why should I remember that music played this morning of Schubert – why? |
57:28 | I want to remember it because it was a very nice, a marvellous state, pleasant, happy, beautifully played, etc., it gave me great pleasure. |
57:41 | So I register it because it gives me great pleasure. Right? So what happens when I hear it next time? Follow it. What happens when I hear it next time? I don't listen to it afresh. I listen to it remembering that pleasant yesterday, and therefore I am not actually listening to it at all. |
58:15 | I am remembering the pleasant state, hoping that I will add more to that pleasant state. |
58:23 | This is simple enough. So I am asking you, why do we register at all, except there? |
58:40 | Find out. If you don't register psychologically, you are nobody. |
58:49 | Right? Do you see this? And to be nobody in a society where it says you must be somebody – you must have a degree, you must have a skill, you must do this – the whole of society and culture says you must be somebody otherwise you can't live. |
59:22 | I don't know if you are following. Right? So society, culture, education, everything tells me I must be somebody. |
59:45 | And I am conditioned to that. I am that conditioning, I am that. And I am frightened to break that down and say, I am nobody. |
1:00:04 | You break it down when you see the danger of it, when you see the tremendous danger of this psychological registration. |
1:00:21 | Then you are unhappy for the rest of your life, because all the time you are wanting to be somebody, so you are fighting, struggling, competing, war, the whole movement of the 'me' and my importance, identified with a nation, with a group, all the rest of it begins, which we say is totally unintelligent. |
1:01:12 | The question then is, why does the brain register? |
1:01:20 | Because it has not found security. |
1:01:30 | You understand? It thinks it has found security in psychological registration. |
1:01:42 | It thinks, but actually, there is no security, it is just lot of words, a lot of ideas, there is no substance to it. |
1:02:01 | It thinks it is secure by eating words, by having ideas, conclusions – there is no substance to it, it is not like food. |
1:02:21 | So, is it possible to live without psychological registration? |
1:02:28 | And because there is no psychological registration, there is intelligence. You see the difference? Do you see it? |
1:02:51 | Then intelligence becomes supreme not, I am intelligent, I am supreme. I want, I don't want. I must be, I must not be. I must be a great success, I must be beautiful, etc. |
1:03:07 | In that, there is a danger because that is me first and you second, my country first and to hell with the rest of the countries. |
1:03:24 | The other day on television, £150 million or more – I have forgotten the exact amount – of shipbuilding was ordered, building ships in England, British. |
1:03:37 | And they were delighted because it brings money – and British first. |
1:03:50 | And they are supplying armaments because it gives employment to people unemployed, to Iran, to different countries, not realising what is going to happen in the future when all these countries are tremendously armed. |
1:04:07 | All you are concerned is, first, less unemployment, more money for our industries, etc. – ours. |
1:04:15 | God, don't you see the danger of all this? |
1:04:50 | From this arises a much deeper question, which is: what is one to do in a world that is chaotic, mad, everything unintelligent, what is one to do in a world like this? |
1:05:08 | You are going to face this in five years time or ten years time or next year. |
1:05:17 | What are you all going to do? |
1:05:28 | I am sure you are disturbed by this, aren't you? Of course, if you are girls and nice looking you will get married, and you don't have to face the music, but you will face a different kind of music which is your husband or your girlfriend. |
1:05:49 | You are trapped there instead of somewhere else. |
1:05:58 | As you are going to face the world, which is really appalling – it is not my conclusion, you see it right in front of you – what are you going to do? |
1:06:20 | Because though I am only a couple of months here, I feel tremendously responsible for you – I really mean it. |
1:06:34 | It is as though I have children here, my children, and I feel tremendously responsible, that you go out with this intelligence so that you can meet this chaotic world intelligently. |
1:07:03 | So can we educate ourselves here, both the staff and ourselves, you and I, educate ourselves to cultivate this intelligence? |
1:07:19 | Not cultivate – you can't cultivate it. Sorry, I withdraw that word cultivate. To awaken this intelligence. We haven't got it, but we have got the other intelligence which is the intelligence of thought. The cunning, dividing, fragmentary intelligence of thought with all its skills, with all its knowledge. |
1:07:49 | If you are caught in that, you will be part of the mess. |
1:08:07 | I am not being gloomy, but we are just stating facts. |
1:08:17 | Of course, not detailed facts but the facts of division. |
1:08:32 | You see, there is The League of Nations. The very words 'League of Nations' is nonsense. |
1:08:45 | So find out, from now on, how to live without psychological registration. |
1:08:58 | Which means you have to investigate, understand the whole question of pleasure. |
1:09:07 | We have been through this – pleasure – because that is one of the factors of registration: pleasure. |
1:09:18 | To see something beautiful, register, to have some extraordinary sexual sensory sensation and register it. |
1:09:28 | And if it is pleasurable, thought pursues it, wants it more. |
1:09:46 | As you are young, you are going to face this problem of sexual pleasure. |
1:09:57 | If you don't understand it and put it in its right place, sex then becomes tremendous, an all-important thing. |
1:10:11 | Suppose I have a career. That becomes tremendously important because it gives me great pleasure in expressing myself, in finding out something new, and I am caught in that pleasure. |
1:10:33 | And the more I go after it, the more there is registration, the more there is the image, the more important all that becomes. |
1:11:08 | There is another much more serious question too, which is: what is the state of the brain when there is only the registration of knowledge and no other registering – what is the state of that brain? |
1:11:31 |
Are you interested in this? Q: Yes. |
1:11:39 | K: It must be a theory to you, obviously. No? If you don't register you being called a fool, what is your state of mind? |
1:11:57 |
Q: Objective. K: No, watch it. |
1:12:01 | K: Look at it, first. Somebody calls you a fool and you don't register, what is happening in the brain? |
1:12:16 | Or if you don't register when somebody calls you a marvellous person? Both the same – right? What happens to the quality of your brain? This may be too difficult. |
1:12:38 | Q: Nothing? |
1:12:40 | K: Nothing? How do you know? |
1:12:44 | Q: You said it is theories, I am just theorising. |
1:12:46 | K: No, don't play. |
1:12:50 | Q: If you are asking us. |
1:12:54 | K: No, I asked – don't cheat me – first I made it very clear. |
1:13:07 | Somebody says you are a fool, somebody says, what a marvellous person. If there is no registration of either? |
1:13:20 | You are aware of the words, the meaning of the words, what is implied in those words, but no registration. |
1:13:34 |
Q: You just don't react.
There is no reaction. K: No reaction, and then what? Either you are a vegetable and therefore no reaction. |
1:13:48 | Q: You just don't feed those words that came towards you, by reacting, either closing up or saying something back. |
1:14:02 | If you don't react, it doesn't mean you are a vegetable. |
1:14:08 | K: Of course, when you don't register there is no response, but what is the nature of the brain or the mind that doesn't respond? |
1:14:31 | This is what we are going to talk about when the students and I meet, about meditation. This is part of that meditation. |
1:14:47 | For thought to become aware of itself. Do you remember? We talked about it. |
1:14:57 | Can thought become conscious of itself? Which is, you can observe or become aware of the arising of jealousy, the arising of anger, the arising of greed, you can see it coming up. |
1:15:16 | So in the same way, is there an awareness, a consciousness of thought arising? |
1:15:35 | Q: You are not saying consciousness of the content of that thought, but of the thought, of the process. |
1:15:44 | K: Thought has made consciousness with all its content – I am a Christian, etc. |
1:15:53 | The content is my fear, my pleasure, my identity, my fears, sorrows, hurts, all that, which is put together by thought. |
1:16:10 | I am asking, can that thought become aware of itself, not I become aware of thought. |
1:16:20 | Q: I don't understand that. You have said that before. What do you mean, not I be aware of thought but thought being aware? |
1:16:28 | K: When I say, I become aware of thought, then there is duality – 'I' separate from thought. |
1:16:37 | But thought has put together the 'me'. |
1:16:44 | So the 'me' thinks it is separate from thought. So it is a false relationship altogether. The 'me' is the thought. |
1:17:01 | The observer is the observed, and so on. So, can that thought – please, do listen to this, it is fun to find out – can that thought know itself as a movement? |
1:17:24 | Stephen Smith: In that observation is there recognition or no recognition? |
1:17:29 | K: No recognition. It is just like jealousy arising. You don't say, 'I am jealous' – that comes later. But you can see jealousy coming because I see your shirt, beautiful, I want it, I am greedy – beginning. |
1:17:47 | The awakening of jealousy can be seen very easily. Or jealousy can become aware of itself, as it arises. |
1:18:04 | You follow? |
1:18:08 |
Q: Involuntary. K: No, not involuntary or voluntary. |
1:18:14 | Q: Involuntary awareness. |
1:18:20 | K: You have seen those – on the television or cinema – the flowering of a daffodil? |
1:18:29 | Slow movement and you see it come out. In the same way... This is part of meditation, watching the thought moving by itself. |
1:18:56 | Have you got something this morning? Have you understood something from all this talk? |
1:19:11 | Not verbal understanding, but insight from which you are going to act, do. |
1:19:19 | Not just say, yes, I have understood, and sit back and do nothing about it. |
1:19:30 | I think we had better stop, don't you? It is lunchtime, ten to one. |
1:19:52 | Right? May I get up? |