Krishnamurti - Is there a way of living with no shadow of fear?

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR77DSS2.5 - Is there a way of living with no shadow of fear?
Brockwood Park, UK - 13 October 1977
Discussion with Staff and Students 2.5

0:20	Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about this morning?
0:33	Questioner: Can we talk about fear, about being afraid?
0:38	K: Shall we talk about that – fear?
0:54	Q: Could we talk about reality?
0:58	K: Reality. All right, and then what else?
1:11	Q: Understanding yourself?
1:13	K: Understanding yourself.
1:21	May we begin with fear first, and carry on from there? Fear, reality, and understanding yourself.
1:33	As we were talking about it on Tuesday, most of you are afraid, aren't you, of not knowing what you are going to do when you leave here?
1:55	Most of you are frightened about that, aren't you? Because the world is in such a mess, it is quite, quite insane, and to meet all that while you are young, and seeing all that, you are frightened of that, aren't you?
2:21	We went into that the other day and we said that while you are here, you don't have to decide what you are going to do for two or three or four years time.
2:35	So don't be afraid of something that you have to face in three or four or five years time but while you are here, if I may suggest, become extraordinarily intelligent, and that intelligence will help you to meet this chaotic and insane world.
3:05	So, there is no need for fear of that kind. We are clear on that point? Except Shankar, because he may have to go next month or at the end of the term to do some job.
3:23	So he has to face it immediately – not immediately, there is no immediacy for him either.
3:37	One can meet the future, whatever it is, if one is really very, very intelligent.
3:47	And we said that intelligence is not the cunning thought, cunning deviations of thought.
3:58	We talked about it a little bit. So if I may suggest, put away that kind of fear. Have you? Not knowing what to do in the future. Will you put away that fear?
4:22	Because the immediacy is much more important than the future. Because what you are now, how you grow, how you flower now, that will decide with intelligence what you will do, but if you keep your eyes on the future and get frightened about it then you are not dealing with the immediacy, which is the cultivation and the flowering of intelligence.
4:58	So can we start with that? That you, all of us here, see that thinking about the future does create fear – what might happen, I might fall ill, I might marry somebody who is appalling, and so on and on and on.
5:22	So, by thinking about it one gets frightened and as you are not called upon to do anything of that kind now, during the years that you are here, I think it is our responsibility, the staff and the rest of us to cultivate and see that you have this flowering intelligence.
5:53	Now, I am asking you, have you put away that fear?
6:03	The fear of the future – have you?
6:10	Because this is self-knowing. She wanted to know, to understand oneself – this is it. This is to understand oneself, how or why one thinks of the future.
6:32	Because you are uncertain, the world you are entering into is uncertain and therefore there is fear.
6:42	While you are here, if you become very, very intelligent then you will meet it happily, whatever it is.
6:53	Are you free of that fear of the future, thinking, my God, what am I going to do?
7:03	That is part of understanding oneself, because oneself is the past – shall I go into all that?
7:18	I won't go into it for the moment. Is that clear? You are free of it?
7:35	Q: There are a great number of us here that are in between, say Shankar, and those of us who will be here for three or four years.
7:46	We have to make plans for what we would do next year.
7:50	K: You have to plan it, but if you plan it based on fear then you will end up in mess, won't you?
7:58	Q: Yes.
8:05	K: So, what is the problem? You wanted to talk about fear. That is one kind of fear – right? While one is young that can be fairly put away, not to think about the future, because if your education here at Brockwood cultivates that intelligence then that intelligence will operate all the time.
8:33	Can we go on from there? So, what is reality? Isn't reality that which is?
8:51	Which is, I am living now at Brockwood and to think about the future is futile – anything might happen.
9:05	An earthquake might swallow all of us or the atom bomb or anything, but to see what is now and from that observation, learn or awaken this intelligence.
9:27	From what is, not what should be, not from an ideal.
9:34	Because the ideal is non-reality.
9:41	We must be careful here because reality can be an illusion too.
9:48	Q: Isn't reality the relationships which we have with people here around us?
9:55	Isn't that part of reality? K: That is a reality. That is, we are living in a small community of about 100 people and what is our relationship, what is the actual, daily relationship to each other?
10:14	That is the reality. Not the imagined or wished-for relationship, but the actual, daily relationship with each other in a small community of this kind – that is the reality.
10:33	Am I related to anybody here, at all?
10:42	Q: It seems that my relationships are based on fear or on admiration.
10:47	K: We will come to that, first let's find out from you, the students, what do you think of it? What is your actual, daily relationship with each other?
11:02	In inquiring into that, we will find out what we are, how we think, what kind of feelings we have to each other.
11:13	That is the mirror in which we see ourselves as we are. Right? Is this clear? So, what is your relationship with each other here in Brockwood?
11:32	Is it based on intelligence or on opinion or on your like and dislike?
11:42	Go on, which is it?
11:52	Is my relationship to the community, that is with each one you – I like some, I don't like some?
12:02	I like to be with those whom I like and I don't like to be with those whom I kind of put away from me.
12:13	In trying to find out what our relationship is with each other in this small community, which is the reality of my daily life, then if I can find that out, what my reactions are, what my feelings are, how I think about another, from there I can extend vastly into the whole world.
12:47	I wonder if you see that. Let's begin from this. What is your actual relationship with each other?
13:06	Is it based on fear?
13:15	Is it based on reward?
13:24	I like you or I depend on you because you are going to give me something.
13:34	Is your relationship based on reward and punishment? Go on, think it out. Because if you can answer this question really truly, honestly, then you will find out for yourself as you grow up, whether your whole life is based on this reward and punishment basis.
14:06	Q: Is that like comfort and discomfort? Reward and punishment? I feel uncomfortable with someone...
14:14	K: Yes, that is the same thing. Companionship – I won't use 'companionship' for the moment.
14:24	I am asking, what is your actual, daily relationship with each other?
14:32	Is it based on authority? Go on.
14:39	Q: It seems to be based on some of all of that.
14:43	K: Begin with one, not all of it, let's begin with one feeling and then work that out...
14:56	So, what is it? Is it based on authority?
15:04	Go on.
15:09	Q: Yes, I think that is part of it.
15:13	K: No, don't say part of it. Is it based on authority?
15:17	Q: I don't quite understand what you mean by authority.
15:21	K: That is, I tell you what to do and if you don't do it, you are going to be punished in some way or another.
15:32	Or I persuade you. That is a form of authority. I exercise my position and assert that.
15:50	Or I say, please, I love you – do this.
15:58	That is a dirty trick.
16:06	So what is your actual relationship in this community based on?
16:13	Q: Like and dislike.
16:15	K: So, like and dislike. You know that. What is wrong with it? Why shouldn't you like some people, why shouldn't you not like others? What do you say?
16:32	Q: We tend to have conclusions about each other.
16:35	K: Take that one point, hold onto yours.
16:38	Q: That is what I mean. You say, he is always that way, he is always unkind to me.
16:45	K: No, she asked, why shouldn't I like some and not like others, what is wrong with it?
16:58	We are trying to find out, we don't say it is right or wrong. I like you and I don't like them. Why does this feeling exist? I want to know, I am not condemning it, I am not saying it is right or wrong. I like you and I don't like him – why?
17:24	Is it that you are more kind to me and he is not so kind?
17:32	You talk to me more gently and he doesn't. He is rough with me and you are more quiet – is that it? Find out.
17:51	Is it that you are clean and he is not clean, physically? He smells and you don't. Is that one of the reasons?
18:07	He is polite and you are not polite. So, find out why this feeling of like and dislike arises.
18:30	Q: It arises from past experience.
18:34	K: Yes, past experience – he has been kind to me...
18:38	Q: Which is turned into pleasure – you remember that with this person it was pleasurable...
18:46	K: Yes, I have had pleasure. You have said very nice things about me. I like what you have said – and I like you. And he or she has been rather rough with me and I don't like that. Is that the reason you have this feeling of like and dislike?
19:06	Find out.
19:14	Is it that you are British and I am also British and somebody is a foreigner therefore I don't like bloody foreigners.
19:24	Go on, find out.
19:34	Is it that I am accustomed to a certain type of accent in English and I don't like accents from abroad – is that it?
20:00	Is it that you are so self-centred – you understand what I mean? – you are so self-centred, anybody who helps you to strengthen that self-centeredness, you accept?
20:19	Anybody who questions that a little bit, you get frightened and say, please, I don't like you. Is that it? Go on. I have put so many things in front of you – find out.
20:40	Q: There is an element of reality about all those things that you put.
20:45	K: All right. What is wrong with it, or right with it?
20:56	See what happens from that. See what takes place. With all these elements in it, what takes place?
21:14	Q: Divisions?
21:15	K: No, see what takes place in you, not in somebody else.
21:22	With all these elements – I won't go into all that over and over again – what is the consequence of it?
21:34	What comes out of that, as you grow older?
21:38	Q: Isolation. It is a process of isolating yourself.
21:41	K: Process of isolation. Do you actually see that? Q: Yes.
21:45	K: Do you?
21:47	Q: You would avoid certain people then and try only to be with...
21:51	K: Do you see this like and dislike, with all its complexities – as we explained just now – gradually makes you withdraw and build a house for yourself in which you collect only those you like, who please you, who help you, who reward you, who assist you, who encourage you, who give you flattery, who sustain you.
22:29	You understand? The others don't sustain you, they kick you. So what takes place?
22:43	Gradually, your self-centeredness becomes more and more strong.
22:50	No? Do you see that? Which is the essence of isolation.
23:04	Right? Do you see this? I am not saying it is right or wrong, just see it, observe it, and from that observation you have intelligence, intelligence comes.
23:26	Intelligence may say, don't go with those people, not I like, I don't like.
23:34	I wonder if you see this. You see it?
23:50	Just see it, look at it first. Take the whole explanation of like and dislike, what is involved in it.
24:02	The gradual process of self-centred, isolating yourself with people who you like, who please you, who flatter you, who encourage you, who pat you on the back and say, what a marvellous fellow you are.
24:24	And I like all those people, naturally. And I put away all the others. I keep them far away. So there is not only the encouragement and the strengthening of self-centeredness, which brings about isolation, and from that what is my relationship?
24:53	You follow? I may marry, I may have children, I may call my wife my darling, but she also is self-centred and I am self-centred – where is the relationship?
25:21	Q: In the head. K: Yes, that is just words.
25:26	K: So do you see the importance of this?
25:33	If you see that, the perception, which is insight, is intelligence.
25:42	Then intelligence operates, not your like and dislike.
25:54	My intelligence says, how can I associate myself or have complete relationship with another who is traditionally bound?
26:27	You understand? Who thinks traditionally like a Hindu, like a Catholic, a Muslim and so on – they are bound in their tradition, in their belief, in their dogma, in their past history and vanity and all that.
26:44	And I say, sorry, all that is nonsense. My intelligence says all that is nonsense. And what is my relationship between myself and another who is bound to tradition, bound to some belief?
27:04	None at all. Right?
27:09	Q: But is that intelligence an isolating factor?
27:12	K: It is intelligence that says that. Look, take it factually. You are an Indian, and I am a Muslim. My belief, my dogmas, my Allah, etc., I believe in it very strongly, and you believe in yours, where is our relationship?
27:39	But if you are intelligent, in the sense we are talking about, and I am a Muslim with all my prejudices, how does your intelligence act?
27:51	Not in isolation. I wonder if you see that. Is this too difficult?
28:07	Q: You said that if you are intelligent and I am bound in tradition, there is no relationship.
28:13	K: No. Then intelligence acts. It may talk with you, but it is not against you. But you are against that.
28:30	You, a Catholic, with all the rest of it, – if you are a Catholic, I am just taking that as an example – and another who has seen the absurdity of any organised belief, dogmas, etc., he says, that is sheer nonsense.
28:48	You are against him but he is not against you.
29:02	Right? So, we are talking of fear. Do you see this like and dislike breeds a certain type of fear?
29:20	Do you?
29:27	Through like and dislike I isolate myself.
29:34	Right? When I isolate myself I am afraid that you might disturb my isolation.
29:47	You understand? You might question my isolation, you might shake me, you might hurt me so I am afraid of you.
30:00	I wonder if you see this.
30:07	Some years ago – I am just recounting a story – some years ago a man came to see me, very rich, a peer of the realm, and he began to talk to me.
30:28	And gradually, after several weeks – he had very frightening dreams after talking to me – one morning he said, I am not coming to see you anymore because you are too frightening altogether.
30:44	What you are saying is terribly disturbing – because I have dreams, etc.
30:53	Please, pax.
31:00	So, through his isolation he was afraid of being disturbed. Do you see the consequence of like and dislike? That is all I am pointing out.
31:18	And when you observe this like and dislike in operation and you see the consequence of that, the perception of it is insight, which is intelligence.
31:35	It is an intelligent act, isn't it, not to throw yourself over a precipice?
31:43	But it is an idiotic and suicidal act if a man insists on throwing himself over the precipice.
31:54	You see this?
31:59	Q: But it doesn't seem quite clear. For example, if there is someone who I am frightened of, who therefore, because I am frightened of them I dislike them.
32:11	It doesn't seem quite clear what I do then, having seen that.
32:15	K: I don't quite follow. I am frightened of you. Why?
32:23	Q: Perhaps because you are cleverer than me.
32:26	K: I am frightened of you for many reasons – you are cleverer than me, you might hurt me, you might make my position uncertain, through your words, through your action, you might upset my conclusions and so on.
32:50	So what are you saying?
32:52	Q: Then what do I do when I see that that is...
32:55	K: Do I see that I am frightened by somebody?
33:03	Do I see that you are frightening me because of disturbing my conclusions, my wishes, my likes, my hope?
33:16	So I am frightened of you. Am I aware this, that I am frightened of you because you make me uncertain?
33:29	Q: Yes, I am.
33:31	K: If I see that, the perception that you frighten me because I have certain a conclusion, that perception, that seeing or that insight is intelligence.
33:48	Then I say, all right, that intelligence is going to act, not my fear of you.
34:06	Are we meeting each other? Stephen Smith: Is it not possible that I may see that for an instant but later on meeting that person again, I am frightened again?
34:20	K: Do I see that reality only for a second or for a moment, or I see the whole implication of this, and therefore when I meet you next time, I realise.
34:42	This has happened to me several times. I used to know a man who was a terrible bully, terrible, and gradually, I saw the result of it, on another.
34:59	You know, fear. So we discussed, and so on. You can get out of it completely.
35:08	Q: You mean you discussed it with him? K: Yes.
35:12	K: Not with the man who bullies, that is his misfortune.
35:22	Q: You mean because he wasn't open?
35:24	K: Leave that, I was just taking it as an example.
35:33	So, is this clear, that thinking about what you will do when you leave here and yourself uncertain, the world is uncertain, and thinking about it you get frightened, right?
35:52	If you see that you have time between now and when you have to leave, during that time awaken, learn, become terribly intelligent, find out.
36:08	Not just be concentrated on exams or on sport, but the whole – even exams, everything – find out.
36:20	From observing all your activities while you are here, there is the awakening of that intelligence.
36:29	Which is part of your education, which I think is much more important than merely passing some exams.
36:37	Not that they are not important, they are, if you want to pass exams.
36:45	Q: But why do you want to pass exams?
36:48	K: I said if you want to pass them – you have to find out. If you say, look, I don't want to pass exams – A level and O level, etc. – I am going to cultivate intelligence, then when you leave this place, you will act intelligently.
37:04	You might be a gardener, you might do something quite out of the way.
37:12	Right? But those who want to pass exams, take A level and O level, they say, it is necessary to have that kind of mind which is learning, which has a great deal of knowledge stored up. It may help me.
37:33	That is his particular job, don't tell him what to do.
37:39	Q: Yes, but when you are studying in order to meet the future, doesn't that get in the way?
37:47	K: You are not going to lay down the law for other people. We are saying, I may want to pass exams because I feel this is too difficult.
38:00	To be so intelligent may be too difficult for me. That is an easy way out. So I say, all right, I may have to pass exams, I had better study, because that way I can always rely on some kind of...
38:20	You follow? I don't condemn such a person or look down on him. If he wants to do that, let him do it. He will find out. He will find out before he leaves this place, that intelligence may operate in that student who wants to pass exams.
38:55	So, that is one kind of fear – the future. Put away that kind of fear altogether, because while you are here, young – life is full, enjoy it, not say, my God, what is going to happen to me?
39:13	Then there is the fear of like and dislike – not the fear of – the fear that arises from like and dislike.
39:26	Which is, the self-centred activity, which you might come and disturb.
39:34	Which you might come and say, what nonsense – anything. I cling to my conclusions, my opinions, my beliefs and I don't want to meet you.
39:49	I may not want to meet you, but I pick up a paper which says, what nonsense all that is. So I quickly put it aside – I am frightened. You follow? Do you see very clearly what like and dislike leads to?
40:15	This is very difficult when you are very young, not to like somebody immensely and turn your back against another.
40:32	If you see this, that it gradually breeds fear or it is one of the very causes of fear then you will look at it, you will understand it, you will see how unnecessary it is to live in a world, or with yourself, with like and dislike.
40:56	That is another form of fear. And we said there is the fear of authority. So we are asking, in a small community of this kind, which is really the representative community of the whole world.
41:17	Right? Do you see that? Of course. Living in a small community, are you afraid of authority? Authority being somebody telling you what to do and insisting on it and forcing you, etc.
41:39	Or somebody trying to persuade you sweetly, kindly, roughly, or saying, look, we are special people here, you must live in a certain way.
42:00	All such attitudes are a form of authority, whereas I discuss with you, I say, look, don't come into the dining room in a bathing suit.
42:14	I talk it over with you. There is no authority in that. That is, you and I, in talking over quite impersonally, quite objectively, we both see the necessity of certain things.
42:35	Right? What? You are silent on this matter. Wait, we discussed the other day about the morning assembly.
42:52	We said, why do you go there? We went into it. We said it is good to be together for some time, together, all of us in the same room, looking at each other, watching each other, talking about the same thing together.
43:14	There is a Sanskrit phrase, which I will translate into English, which is: 'Living with good people.'
43:24	You understand? You are all good people, obviously. You don't want to murder me or murder each other, you don't want to hit each other. We are fairly good people.
43:44	So, to be together – you know what that does?
43:51	Find out. Here we are, look, we are together, now.
43:58	Isn't there a different feeling than when you are by yourself in the garden?
44:05	Do tell me. Q: Yes.
44:07	K: Isn't there a different feeling, a different atmosphere, a different sense of communication with each other? That is the reason for the assembly in the morning. But if you say, sorry, I don't want to come, all right, don't come.
44:24	Then you miss a great deal. We will point it out to you. If you say, I am sorry, I like to look at the sky or read my detective book, it is up to you – do it.
44:38	But you miss an awful lot. You follow? So, in assembly we talk over together about punctuality, about being polite to each other.
44:55	You know, in the world politeness is going.
45:04	Some time ago I was in a bus in London and an old lady came in. I stood up and gave her my seat.
45:11	She said, What? You are giving me your seat?
45:22	Is politeness authority? Talking over together, saying, look, let's be polite to each other.
45:35	You follow? There is no authority in it. So, there is authority only when somebody comes along and says, do this.
45:52	Or you insist on disorder, your room, your dress, your sloppiness, and somebody says, please, keep your room in order, dress properly.
46:09	You say, yes, yes, and keep on that way, and I say, for God's sake woman, or girl or boy, I have told you ten times. You don't do it.
46:18	Right? Don't call me an authority, you have produced the authority because you are disorderly. You understand this? Like in Italy, at a certain time, there was terrible disorder – trains were late, etc., I was there.
46:40	And dear old Mussolini came along and said, look, we must have order. Trains ran properly. So, out of disorder, people create authority.
46:57	Right? So, find out if you are creating authority, or being persuaded, being told.
47:10	Whereas together, all of us together sit down and say, look, let's all be punctual.
47:17	We discuss, we talk it over. There is no authority, we all see the same thing. That is why I feel it is very important that we are all together, to talk things over together.
47:35	Not about somebody. Right. So, we are saying there is that kind of fear. There is also fear, in oneself, of not achieving something you want to get.
47:57	I want to become a painter. I may have the capacity or the talent or the gift or the creative thing, and I work for it. There is no fear in that.
48:13	But there is fear when that creative thing becomes a money-making thing.
48:20	You follow what I mean? And then I say, by Jove, I must paint my pictures, etc.
48:29	So there are different forms of fear – fear of public opinion, fear of what somebody else might say.
48:39	So, are you aware of all these fears? Just be aware, don't suppress it, don't deny it, don't escape from it, say, yes, I am frightened of what you think of me.
48:56	Are you? You are frightened of what I think of you?
49:03	Q: Not what you think of me, but I notice in myself that I am frightened of what people think of me.
49:09	K: All right. You are frightened of what people think of you – why?
49:20	Go into it. I am frightened of what Mrs Thatcher might think of me. My God, just think of that! I am frightened of what people might think of me. Why? I want their good opinion of me. Right? Why?
49:49	I want them to think that I am all right. That means I am conforming myself to what they think. Right?
50:08	If I am frightened of what you all might think of me – and I may be different, and I want to conform to what you think of me, which is your opinion about me.
50:25	So what is happening? What is happening? Go into it, look at it. What is happening?
50:39	There is authority. Look at it, carefully. You are afraid of me – I hope not, but suppose you are afraid of me because you like to think that I approve of you.
51:01	Then what happens? I become the pattern for you to follow.
51:12	So the pattern becomes the authority, the public opinion becomes authority. Do you see that? I deny authority here but yet I have the fear of public opinion, what people might say about me.
51:46	So that is another form of fear. Now, take that one thing and be free of it. One thing and completely be free of it. Because that is going to be a tremendous fear for the rest of your life – what somebody might think of you, good God!
52:07	Who are the people who think about you? Your neighbours? Your father, your mother, your uncle, aunt and people around you? They want you to be this. That is their opinion and you want to conform to their opinion, otherwise you get frightened.
52:32	Right? So, why are you conforming?
52:42	Why do you conform about anything? Not only about people – why do you conform?
52:56	I put on trousers and all this kind of dress when I am in Europe. When I go to India, I put on Indian clothes. Is that conforming?
53:09	Q: It doesn't have to be.
53:12	K: No, am I conforming?
53:15	Q: It is in a certain physical sense.
53:17	K: It is more convenient there, for me. More convenient, more clean, because I have clean clothes every day and so on.
53:28	If I said, no, I won't conform, and come here and dress like an Indian – a south Indian or a north Indian – and insist that way, it becomes a bore, for everybody.
53:44	Q: It is practical. It is hot in India so you would wear Indian clothes.
53:48	K: Yes, that is all. So there is no conformity – I am pointing out – in changing clothes and conforming to the pattern of a particular country.
54:00	If I conform myself because I live in Italy – I have lived a great many years in Italy – and I see everybody going to mass and crossing themselves in a church and all that, why should I conform? I think that is all rubbish.
54:22	But if I wanted a job there, in Rome, they might ask me, are you a Catholic? I say, sorry, I am not – they might not give me a job. So I get frightened. Find out, that is all I am saying. Don't just say, I am frightened of public opinion, and just remain in that fear for the rest of your life.
54:44	Find out why you are frightened of public opinion.
54:49	Q: But you might also conform in order not to aggravate other people. Like here, say, you come to the West, you start eating with a fork and knife. It is a dashing nuisance, but you eat with a fork and knife.
55:04	K: I have never eaten meat in my life. Why should I eat meat? Here everybody eats meat, practically. I won't say everybody, thank God. Why should I conform to that? I have been invited many, many places where they eat meat, and I say I am vegetarian, and they say, perfectly all right, we know you are vegetarian. So they would give me chicken.
55:35	K: I don't even say sorry, I am not hungry, and push it off, I say, thanks so much. When the next day comes and there are vegetables, I take them. That is all. I don't make a fuss about it.
55:50	I am sure most of you have this feeling. I am asking you, not only her. Have you fear of public opinion? Yes, she has. Have you?
56:04	Q: Yes. K: There. Most of you have fear of what other people think. Is that it?
56:12	Q: Yes, because you want to fit in. And it makes things easier if you don't go against the grain.
56:22	Q: Because you want to fit in.
56:27	K: Why? I am asking you why.
56:30	Q: You are afraid.
56:34	K: Why are you afraid?
56:36	Q: Because you don't want to be hurt.
56:39	K: Is that it? I am frightened of public opinion because I don't want to be hurt?
56:49	Q: You don't want to be isolated.
56:53	K: So is that it? The whole of England thinks, suppose that they are all devout Jesus worshipers, and you don't, and you feel, if I don't worship Jesus as the rest of them do I will be isolated, therefore I am frightened, will you then believe, go to church and all that?
57:23	Go into it, find out.
57:34	Q: Or what you might do is you might go to church but just keep it to yourself.
57:40	K: No. I don't want to be in that circus. I might prefer the other kind of circus.
57:54	So, please find out for yourself, while you are young, please explore, be curious, investigate, find out why you are frightened of public opinion, what somebody says, whether the archbishop or anybody.
58:20	Q: I feel that I have to be conscious of how I dress at home and what people think of me.
58:26	K: Yes. Why are you frightened?
58:29	Q: Because I have to fit in, otherwise it causes lots of problems.
58:36	K: So, you don't want to create a lot of problems for yourself, so you say, please, I will just do what you want me to do.
58:51	Q: Their ignorance to believe that you aren't accepted when you don't conform to their rules is just ignorance.
59:02	K: All right. When you leave Brockwood, where we are all not eating meat, go home and you eat meat, you are conforming, aren't you?
59:13	To your particular taste or not to create bother in the kitchen, not to worry your parents who say, you are getting thin, you are not fat.
59:24	So you go and eat meat. Do you?
59:31	Come on, answer it. Face it.
59:36	Q: Maybe it is worthwhile to go into those problems that would arise.
59:44	K: I said find out what you will do.
59:55	If you say, sorry mummy, I am not going to eat meat. I don't like to kill animals. I don't like the smell of it. The horror of it. And the mother gets angry. So I would say, sorry mummy, I can't eat that stuff anymore. What happens? For whom are you creating a problem? For your mother, not for yourself. Aren't you?
1:00:26	Q: I don't think so.
1:00:30	K: I say sorry, I don't eat meat, I won't eat meat – fish, anything, I won't eat meat. The mother says, my God, why not? You are stupid, you create a lot of trouble for us, and you quiver a little bit.
1:00:46	She gets angry, she does all kinds of things. At the end of it, I am sorry, Mummy darling, don't force me to eat meat because I won't eat meat, because I don't like it. Who is causing problems? Am I causing problems or she is causing problems for herself?
1:01:05	Find out. I won't do certain things. I won't kill people. The problem is the problem of the government. They might shoot me, they might kill me, they might put me in prison, they might force me to eat. Sorry, it is your problem, not mine. I don't know if you see this. You have turned the tables on them.
1:01:41	Q: But if you say that – it is your problem – then people will get very angry.
1:01:48	K: What is that?
1:01:50	Q: He says then people will get very angry at you.
1:01:53	K: Let them get angry. Mummy, don't get angry.
1:02:01	Q: He says it is very dangerous.
1:02:04	K: Therefore, I am asking you, why are you frightened of public opinion?
1:02:12	Which maybe public opinion is eat meat.
1:02:23	I know several Hindus, I have travelled with them, unfortunately, the moment they leave India, they tuck into meat – on a ship, on airplanes, everything – but the moment they get back...
1:02:45	Q: Not eating meat is something which I care a lot about, I don't want to eat meat, but there are certain things which some of us don't care about one way or the other.
1:02:54	K: Wait, I am taking meat, purposely. You are going to face this problem when you go home, which is public opinion. Right? So, you are not creating problems, because you say, sorry, it is just as easy to cook an omelette or vegetables or beans as cooking meat, but mother insists that you eat that.
1:03:34	You follow this? So, don't put it on that – you don't want to create problems.
1:03:49	I want to create problems.
1:04:01	I want to create problems for them, not for me, because I am free, I don't care.
1:04:10	I used to meet a lot of communists and Catholics, at one time, I said, I don't believe in all this nonsense.
1:04:20	So they said, why not? They would get very angry, intellectually, etc. I said, sorry, I see the end of it much more than you do. At the end of it, they left me alone because they are frightened, because they see – you follow?
1:04:39	So, are you now free of public opinion? Don't look at me cross-eyed.
1:04:46	Q: I am not! K: Not you.
1:04:54	Are you frightened of public opinion after this? What your mother will say at home when you don't eat meat?
1:05:05	When you say, sorry, I am not going to church. Why do you think it is silly? Do you? Oh, Lord. That is public opinion – there it is. Public opinion in Italy says, go to mass every Sunday, and you say, sorry, it is all blah.
1:05:37	Q: You might be interested to find out what type of blah it is, so you might go to watch.
1:05:41	K: I may prefer my blah, but I don't want to prefer your blah. Don't force me to accept your nonsense. So, I investigate my blah.
1:06:02	So are you free after investigating into this problem? I know it is very difficult while you are young not to conform to public opinion. Everybody wears blue jeans, we are all going to wear blue jeans.
1:06:21	Everybody has long hair, we all have long hair. Beard, beards. I say, why? Find out. To find out why you conform and see that you are frightened and to be free of that fear is to be intelligent.
1:06:46	Scott Forbes: I think, Krishnaji, that often we want to conform to public opinion because something very deep happens, that if many people like us then we think we are a good person.
1:07:01	And if people don't like us...
1:07:04	K: That is obnoxious, to say, I am a very good person...
1:07:08	SF: I think that is something subtle that happens with us.
1:07:14	Q: Or else maybe life is easier if everyone is with you and you are part of a big family.
1:07:24	Q: She says, maybe life is easier when everyone is with you and you are part of the whole thing. K: Of course.
1:07:31	K: That is how Hitler got all the young students to be Hitler youth.
1:07:39	You have seen all this – Mussolini, all the tyrants do this because young people like to conform, like to be like everybody else.
1:07:52	Because they feel, my God, if I am slightly different they will call me names, and I don't like that.
1:08:01	Nobody calls you names here. So, while you are here, for heaven's sake, find out if you are frightened of public opinion and whether you can be free of it completely so that you are a human being, not a sheep following everybody.
1:08:46	So that is another form of fear. Fear, as we said, of the future – I hope you are free of that – fear of authority, which is much more complex.
1:09:02	You may have no authority from outside but you may have authority inside yourself – this is what I think, this is what I have experienced, this is what I know and I am not going to budge.
1:09:16	This becomes the authority, of your own illusion.
1:09:28	So, if you are living under authority or accept authority, then there will never be an intelligent flowering, but if together all of us sit down, as we do now, together discuss, see the same thing together – same thing together, not agree.
1:09:54	We all agree this is a microphone, there is no problem. We all agree that to fall down from a height, the 18th floor, will kill you. There is no problem. But if you want to drop from the 18th floor, that is your problem.
1:10:17	So, no fear of the future, authority of any kind, inwardly or outwardly, to be free of that kind of authority, to be free of public opinion seems to be most difficult for all of you.
1:10:40	Because when we are young, we all want to do the same thing, because we don't want to appear peculiar.
1:10:56	If all of England ate vegetables, didn't eat meat, fish, etc., and you had lived in some place where they ate meat, and come here, you would be out of place.
1:11:12	You would say, I must adjust myself – public opinion.
1:11:18	Q: So it is being afraid of not wanting to be alone. If you don't conform to what everyone else does, then you are out of it.
1:11:27	K: What would happen if you are out of it? What would happen? Are you out of it as a reaction? Saying, I don't like it, I am going to something else – that is not intelligent, is it? But if you see that public opinion, which is what everybody agrees upon – everybody says, it is good to eat meat, it is good to worship Jesus – whatever they agree.
1:12:01	And you come along and you are doubtful of it and you are frightened not to accept all that. You feel isolated, you feel out of it, and you feel frightened of that.
1:12:16	When you live like that, what happens? Frightened all the time what people think.
1:12:26	See what happens to you when you live like that. For God's sake, find out what happens to you when you live like that, when you are trying to conform, when you are trying to fit in, and somebody says, look, don't, for your own sake, it only breeds fear.
1:12:49	Don't you want to get out of that?
1:12:57	Don't you?
1:13:03	Q: It is hard.
1:13:06	K: No, I won't even accept hard. Is it hard to see that if you drop from the 18th floor it is going to kill you? Is it hard to see? Q: No.
1:13:21	K: Then why is this hard to see? It is equally as clear as that. To live according to some public opinion only breeds fear, and therefore when there is fear, you live in darkness, you live in constant struggle.
1:13:38	Why don't you see that as clearly as dropping from the 18th floor? If you have a lift, it is all right. Why don't you see that? To see that is intelligence, and be free of it.
1:14:07	Three or four years ago in India when I was talking a man came up to me after my talk, he said to me, furious, angry, he said, you ought to be burned.
1:14:18	Because I was contradicting, I was saying what nonsense, all that stuff there, religion, no religion at all, and so on.
1:14:28	Which is the public opinion. And public opinion, if they gather together, they would burn me, they would throw stones at me.
1:14:42	If you can face it, all right, that is part of life – you will die anyhow. I will die one way or the other.
1:14:50	But that means you see clearly something that is dangerous and avoid it.
1:14:59	I am not setting myself up as an example.
1:15:09	Like in California, after a talk, a man said, I wish I had the power to put you in a concentration camp.
1:15:17	You follow? But in spite of their threats, I have said, this is so.
1:15:31	Which doesn't need courage, which doesn't need a thing, it is so.
1:15:42	I don't want to live in fear of public opinion.
1:15:53	Are you frightened of public opinion, too? Of course. Don't, for God's sake, don't. See why, explore, find out while you are here during the next few years, find out how to live without fear of public opinion, fear of authority, fear of the future.
1:16:33	From that unfolding of why you are afraid, investigating, comes intelligence. But if you say, I am frightened of public opinion, and wriggle, wriggle, wriggle for the rest of your life – which most people do.
1:16:52	So there is fear of the future, fear of authority.
1:17:00	There is no fear of the authority of the policeman, is there? He asks you to do certain things, that is the law, keep to the left, there is no fear. But if you say, no, sorry, I insist on driving on the right because I am used to driving on the right in Europe, he will say, come off it. he will give you a ticket, because you are a danger.
1:17:33	So, there is no fear when you see something very clearly.
1:17:40	And that doesn't need courage. So there is the future, authority, and public opinion – this is especially one of the most difficult things when you are young, which is, not to live or go contrary to public opinion.
1:18:18	What are the other forms of fear?
1:18:21	Q: Death.
1:18:24	K: Are you frightened of death? Are you?
1:18:35	Q: I have never thought about it.
1:18:37	K: You don't think about death while you are young, do you? Do you really?
1:18:45	Q: I think about being killed.
1:18:53	Q: Being killed.
1:18:57	K: Again, that is future. I am frightened of being killed. Oh, my God.
1:19:07	Q: Not all the time. K: So what happens? I dare not move out of my little hole.
1:19:20	No, you are not really frightened of being killed or death. I can talk about death, but it is not your field. If you want to talk about it, want to go into it, want to find out, I will do it.
1:19:39	But if you just say, we have got ten minutes, let's talk about death.
1:19:48	It is an immense problem, death.
1:19:55	But if you say, before I die, I want to know how to live, that is much more important.
1:20:06	I want to live, before I die, without fear. You follow? Then it is fun to talk about it. Then do it together. Is there really a way of living in which there is no conflict, no fear, and understand the whole nature of pleasure?
1:20:38	Is there a way of living which has no shadow of fear?
1:20:48	Aren't you interested in that?
1:20:58	To find that out while you are young, that is important.
1:21:05	When you are caught in the trap, then you are lost.
1:21:12	Then you might put all these questions but you will say, sorry, I am caught, I am married, I have got children, I have got to work, I have got to earn money, I have got to do this, I have got to do that, and you say, leave this alone, tell me how to earn more money.
1:21:33	Then if you ask that question, I would say, go to somebody who knows the game.
1:22:13	Q: I would like to come back to the problem of public opinion.
1:22:22	In my family, I wanted to eat vegetarian food, I was the only one.
1:22:32	And the whole family didn't like it.
1:22:35	K: They think you are queer – well, nevermind what they think.
1:22:46	Q: They opposed it and said, If you don't fit into our rules...
1:22:56	K: You get out of the house.
1:22:59	Q: Then we are not going to give money to study.
1:23:05	K: That is a good old threat of the family, I know. So what happens? Face that, face that! Face that. You go home and you refuse to do certain things.
1:23:27	You refuse to be bullied by your parents. You refuse to eat meat – if you think that is right.
1:23:38	Then what will you do if they tell you, Brockwood has made you this kind of idiotic person, I won't send you there – what will you do?
1:23:56	Go on, answer my question. What will you do?
1:24:03	Q: Talk it over with them?
1:24:07	K: Which means what? That you must be very clear about yourself.
1:24:18	Being very clear, you talk in a friendly manner. You say, I am very clear, I don't want to eat meat, I don't want to go to church. So if you are very clear, if they are nice parents, they generally say, all right, I understand.
1:24:37	But if they are tough, if they say, you have got to go to church, then what will you do while you are young?
1:24:50	You know very well inside you that it is blah, and you act intelligently, you don't care, you go.
1:25:02	And when you are there, instead of the Bible you read – the Bible is very good, by the way, if you read it properly.
1:25:08	K: Not the modern... Q: New Testament.
1:25:13	K: I like the Old Testament, personally. The other is too sentimental. So you pick up your book, you put it in the Bible and go on reading it – who cares?
1:25:29	But they know that you don't want it. It pricks their conscience. So put them on the spot.
1:25:39	Q: And the same with meat?
1:25:46	K: Yes. Mummy, I am sorry, I don't want to eat meat. I see it is awful to kill animals just for yourself. Killing is wrong. Killing, killing, killing – eventually you will kill man. You reason with them. You can reason intelligently because you are very clear, but if you are uncertain they say, come back, you are one of us.
1:26:20	So are you clear? Be clear about something.
1:26:50	I was a guest in a house where they didn't eat salt because they thought eating salt was something terrible – I don't know all the explanations for it – and what happened?
1:27:07	I said one day, could you give me a little salt? and there was such a...! And I said, all right, it doesn't matter. I will eat without salt. You follow? But if you are very clear, to be frightened of public opinion is the utmost absurd way of living, and if you are very clear about meat, church, then there is no problem for you.
1:27:44	You might create a problem for others, and an intelligent man jolly well does create a problem for others.
1:28:06	Is that enough? It is lunchtime, isn't it?
1:28:14	I will create a problem for you.
1:28:26	Which is – not now – sit quietly by yourself for ten minutes a day, absolutely quiet, without moving a single finger or moving the eyeballs – just sitting quietly.
1:28:43	And if you can't, find out why you can't. You follow? Enough.