Krishnamurti Subtitles home


BR78DSS2.4 - The flame of discontent
Brockwood Park, UK - 29 October 1978
Discussion with Staff and Students 2.4



0:20 Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about this morning?
0:32 Questioner: It seems that often, I am in the talk here, I am listening to you talk and I seem to be very aware of what you are saying, but often when I leave the place, I go to lunch or something, I am wondering, is it possible to keep this awareness?
0:47 K: I haven't understood, sorry. Shakuntala Narayan: She says, often when she is here at the talk, she is aware and listening but when she leaves and during the rest of the day, it seems to go.
1:12 K: Probably, that is the case with most of us.
1:21 You know, we were talking about the other day, not to lose one's youth.
1:35 We go much too rapidly in all the experiences, much too young, and as we grow older, we seem to lose the zest, the vitality, the driving energy.
1:59 And is it possible to keep the mind young?
2:13 Because if you keep the mind young, perhaps you will keep the body young.
2:21 Is that possible? I would like to go into that, if I may. May I?
2:33 I wonder if you have noticed generally, what a mess human beings make of their life.
2:45 Have you noticed it? It very rarely happens that a human being right throughout his life lives with clarity, with a great deal of affection, sensitivity, lives inwardly in total harmony.
3:13 Have you noticed, perhaps you have, how our life becomes so complicated, so unnecessarily destructive?
3:34 We are always in conflict with each other. If it isn't with each other, it is in oneself.
3:48 And to keep the mind young, if you are interested in that, one of the questions is, why human beings throughout the world, and perhaps more so in the Western world, have given such tremendous importance to the intellect.
4:22 They are very clever intellectually, volumes have been written about philosophy, and all the inventions, the technological development is all intellectual work.
4:41 Perhaps the Greeks started it, giving the West a certain direction.
4:51 The intellectual capacity has been considered as the greatest gift.
5:01 Have you noticed all this? And perhaps that is one of the reasons why human beings make their life a mess.
5:13 Because they give to thought and all the activity of thought such great value and they disregard the other, the field in which most of us live – the emotions, the affections, the various form of sensitivity, love, compassion, all that is regarded as rather sentimental, romantic and nonsensical.
5:52 Have you noticed all this? Have you? Don't you give importance to the intellect?
6:09 That is, your thinking. You are projecting a future according to your own intellectual capacities, and this constant battle within oneself between affection and what the intellect demands.
6:40 Have you noticed all this? Have you?
6:53 And perhaps, that is one of the reasons where you give importance to the activity of the intellect, that you make life into a divisive process, divide life into various compartments.
7:16 And also perhaps one of the reasons why the mind deteriorates is to have problems.
7:27 Do you have problems? I hope not. If you have, then you worry about it, you are working at it all the time, thinking about it, and the problem gradually wears down the brain, the constant occupation.
8:04 Have you noticed it? You know this, don't you? The constant working, working, working, of the mind. The brain is incessantly active, never without a problem, never completely relaxed, completely free from any impressions, from any pressures.
8:41 When you have a problem, whatever it is, the silliest or the most complex problem, finish it during the day, don't carry it over the next day.
8:55 Is that possible? You understand my question? Because the moment you carry it over, the brain is working, working, working, being occupied.
9:10 But if you can finish a problem – if you have a problem – as it arises, or during the day, finish with it, so that when you go to bed, it is all over, so that your brain then becomes quiet, relaxed, not occupied with something or other.
9:36 So, the intellect which has divided life as emotions, as sensitivity, as sensations, and tries to control, shape these emotions and sensitivity and sensations – which are the activity of the senses – the intellect imposes its rules, its dictum, its demands on all that.
10:21 So that is one of the reasons, I think, why we make a mess of our life.
10:32 One of the reasons. We are very clever intellectually, we talk about everything, but lead a shoddy, a frightened, nervous, anxious life.
10:57 Are you doing that?
11:05 Dead silence. Are you aware – to answer your question – are you aware of this process in yourself?
11:18 Not just in this room but also when you go outside, when you go back to your bedroom or sit in your class or take a walk or play, have you noticed how thought, which is the instrument of the intellect, is always occupied and dividing.
11:52 You may be extraordinarily good as a mathematician or as a scientist or a philosopher, turning out a lot of words, words, words, theories and ideas, but lead a very contradictory life.
12:18 Have you noticed this?
12:26 And also, to have problems, that is the most destructive thing.
12:37 Not to have a single problem in life. You understand what it means? Have you ever thought about it? Does this interest you, what we are talking about?
13:06 And also one of the factors that is very destructive too in life, is to depend – psychologically, inwardly, to depend on somebody, feeling that you are lost if that person is not there.
13:40 And you have gotten used to that dependency, and in that process, you are frightened, you are anxious, you are jealous, you are apprehensive, and you may also feel guilty because you say to yourself, I mustn't depend, and yet you depend.
14:11 So there is a battle going on – depending and saying to yourself, I mustn't depend. The mustn't depend is the invention of the intellect, of thought. You understand what I am saying?
14:28 That is, when you are dependent, and you know the whole sequence and the consequences of dependency, and realising that, determine not to be dependent, brings about a conflict, a struggle.
14:55 Whereas if you remain with the fact that you are dependent and not say, I mustn't be dependent, just watch the fact that you are dependent and let dependency tell its story.
15:16 You are following all that? Vous avez compris? It will tell you lots – that you are lonely, that is why you depend, that you cannot do something physically for yourself, therefore you depend, psychologically, inwardly, you feel weak and therefore you hope by depending on somebody you will get strength.
15:53 Right? That is one of the factors – the intellect, problems, dependency on another.
16:05 And also, what is most destructive is fear.
16:17 Are you afraid of something? Are you afraid of the future? What will happen when you leave here? Or are you afraid that you are not beautiful, that you must be beautiful?
16:39 You know fear, don't you? Are you afraid? You are all very silent, what's the matter? If you are, don't run away from it, look at it.
17:00 Look at the fact that you are frightened. Don't say, I mustn't be frightened. When you say, I mustn't be frightened, you are away from the fact, and then you spend your energy in battling with I mustn't be afraid, I am afraid.
17:28 You follow this? So can you remain with that fact that you are really frightened.
17:38 Frightened about what? Inquire into it, go into it, don't let it slip away from you.
17:47 You are understanding all this? Are you listening to what I am talking about, not translating what I am saying into an idea?
18:08 When we talked about dependency, are you aware that you actually depend psychologically, inwardly on somebody?
18:20 Or some ideal or some belief or some concept?
18:30 Are you aware of it? That is, depending psychologically on somebody.
18:41 If you remain with that fact that you do depend on somebody psychologically, don't wander away from it.
18:55 It is like having pain, toothache. Do what you like, it is there.
19:07 Right? So, the intellect, problems carried over, living with problems all one's life – think of it – what it does to the brain, what it does to your life.
19:43 And depending psychologically, fear.
19:58 Is not youth, the young mind, inwardly, constantly in revolt?
20:21 You understand what I am talking about? No? Aren't you in revolt?
20:33 Aren't you dissatisfied?
20:41 Or have you all grown old and say, everything is all right, and you go to sleep?
20:51 Is there psychological discontent, like a flame that is burning all the time?
21:09 Have you got that kind of discontent? Not seeking satisfaction – sexually, friendship, do something or other to be satisfied, I don't mean that kind of satisfaction, gratification of the senses.
21:29 We are talking about being discontent with what is happening around you, discontented with yourself – not making that discontent a burden, so that you are always exhausting yourself with that discontent, but having that flame and let it burn.
22:06 It is there, if you will allow it. Let it work. You understand what I am talking about?
22:20 Do you understand? I think we generally are discontented. Most people are, because they want a better job, more money, or married, or they don't like their wife or their husband, or their girl or their boy – they are not satisfied.
22:41 Or they are dissatisfied with their boss – you know, all that. I am not talking of that kind of discontent or dissatisfaction, we are talking about a discontent that is not seeking an end.
23:13 Do you understand what I am talking about?
23:15 Q: Not really. Can you go into it a bit more?
23:21 K: Suppose one is discontented. That discontentment soon finds satisfaction in something or other.
23:41 And after finding satisfaction, that discontent may disappear or that discontent may arise again because what you have been satisfied with, is not sufficient.
24:02 So you want some more satisfaction, or greater gratification.
24:10 I am not talking about that kind of superficial satisfaction, discontentment that finds satisfaction in superficial things, I am talking about the flame of discontent.
24:34 Which has nothing to do with achieving something or being satisfied with something. That is too silly. I think it is that flame that keeps the mind very young.
24:55 Q: Krishnaji, where does this flame begin? Where does it come from and what destroys it?
25:03 K: The question is, how does this flame come into being?
25:11 What do you think? Go on. You have got as good a brain, let it operate.
25:23 Q: First we have to know what this flame is. You mentioned it, but I don't think that we quite catch what you mean by this, the flame of discontent.
25:35 K: Tungki, old boy, she asked, how does this flame arise, what is its source, what is the basis of it, how does it take place?
25:53 That is what we are inquiring for the moment. Don't go off to something else, Tungki, let's stick to that for a while.
26:01 Q: But if we don't know what this flame is, how can we find out?
26:05 K: You don't know and perhaps somebody else doesn't know, but you understand that discontent with most people is soon smothered, is soon gratified.
26:23 If I am dissatisfied with – what? I don't know. What are you dissatisfied with? Can't you tell me?
26:39 With your looks?
26:46 With not being clever? Sharp, clear? Terribly intelligent? Are you dissatisfied because of those reasons?
27:07 If you are, then you will soon find ways and means of gratifying those, saying, I will do my best and get a good brain, as good as I can, and so on.
27:23 It is finished very quickly, isn't it? Now, do you see that? Do you actually see the fact of that, that generally, human beings who are discontented soon find ways and means to become contented?
27:53 Do you see that fact? Do you? Now, if you do see that fact, will you pursue that way of living?
28:17 If you see that way of living is terribly superficial, like a child being satisfied with a toy – the toy may be being the prime minister or the richest man or something or other, but it is still a toy.
28:44 I wonder if you would agree to that.
28:54 My question is, my statement is, if you see that thing is false, this is the beginning of the other.
29:11 You follow what I am saying? Nobody seems to see what I mean. Won't somebody help me out?
29:30 This is really a very complex question because generally people who are discontented, not being able to find a way of satisfying themselves, become terribly cynical, bitter, angry, violent, and psychologically, they are constantly in revolt, disturbed.
30:10 We are not talking of that kind of discontentment. It is like a person who wants to find out, wants to find out if he can be totally, completely free.
30:32 You follow?
30:35 Q: Are you therefore saying that discontent is there in the beginning and is lost?
30:46 Are you saying that discontent is there in the beginning?
30:51 K: No, I doubt it. There is discontent generally, but that discontent is smothered by getting some kind of satisfaction.
31:12 You see what the world is, the appalling mess it is in, and if you are fairly intelligent you say, for goodness sake, this is terrible to live that way, and you are discontented, so you go off and join a commune or some sect, or you become a monk, or run away to pop music or something or other.
31:43 But if you observe that that kind of satisfaction is rather silly, immature, the very fact of seeing that, the truth of that, then there is the beginning of the other.
32:04 Yes, I think I have made myself clear.
32:11 If I see what is false, the very seeing of the false is the discovery of what is true.
32:25 You understand what I am saying?
32:33 So psychologically, to have this extraordinary quality of the flame that never finds an answer, that is never satisfied, is burning by itself.
32:52 You don't know, you haven't tried all this.
32:57 Q: I don't quite see what is wrong with satisfaction.
33:00 K: There is nothing wrong with satisfaction.
33:07 You may be satisfied one day with that particular thing, and the next day dissatisfied with it – something else.
33:18 This constant movement of being satisfied and dissatisfied. This goes on right through life, which is such a dreadful waste of energy.
33:36 It is a wearing out of the brain, this movement, being satisfied and then dissatisfied, the struggle, the conflict.
33:51 No?

Q: I don't see that.
33:54 K: You don't see that? Do you see it? Does somebody else see it? Then will you please explain?
34:09 It is your turn. Don't you find that being satisfied is rather temporary?
34:38 No? I am satisfied with this house. I haven't got money to change it – I am satisfied, that is all right. I put up with it. I would like to change the colour of the roof or the ceiling or have different curtains and so on, but I haven't got the money so I put up with it.
35:07 I would like to have a beautiful garden but it is not possible. But I would like to find satisfaction, certainty in something that will be lasting.
35:27 I would like to find a man or a woman or a wife or a husband who gives me complete satisfaction.
35:35 Is that possible? Obviously not. Right? What are you disturbed about in this?
35:50 Q: Could we be more specific about the area of this dissatisfaction?
35:57 You are talking about dissatisfaction of a very abstract thing?
36:02 K: It is not very abstract.
36:04 Q: But you are not saying that we should be dissatisfied with the kind of curtains we have or with the kind of gardens that we have.
36:12 K: No, I said that is not the kind of discontent I am talking about.
36:22 Q: Right. Could we be more specific about the kind of discontent that you are talking about?
36:29 K: I thought I made it clear.
36:36 Perhaps we are using a wrong word. Let's move away from the word. Is there a quality of mind that is constantly inquiring?
36:57 A mind that doesn't accept, that doesn't easily accept the words and the explanations and all that.
37:18 A mind that – having inquired about the world around me, politics, etc. – has now started inquiring into itself.
37:39 This inquiry, if it is intellectual, becomes verbal, and this inquiry is very, very superficial.
37:57 But if it is not merely intellectual but with complete attention, that means all my senses are awake, all my affection, care, everything is involved in attention, that sense of deep attention is the flame.
38:31 Would you accept that? Why? Why do you accept it so easily?
38:49 So our inquiry has been, from the beginning of this talk – not a sermon – can the mind, the brain, the whole human mind, with all the emotion, the intellect, the capacity to think, the sensitivity, the sensation – can that mind keep young?
39:22 It cannot keep young if it merely lives at the intellectual level.
39:33 And most people do. They never face the reality of themselves – that they are intellectually highly developed and the rest is like, you know...
40:03 And the quality of a young mind is essentially non-selfish.
40:19 Would you accept that?
40:30 Would you accept that?
40:36 Q: Not really, because selfishness starts very early in life.
40:43 It doesn't seem quite the right word because selfishness starts very early in life.
40:46 K: I know, it starts very early, but to be free of it, you may start.
41:02 This self-concern – I won't even call it selfishness, then you might object to it – this self-concern, being occupied about oneself – are you?
41:30 Are you? Probably not completely – that would be absurd – but perhaps relatively.
41:43 There is a great deal of self-centredness but there are occasions when you are not.
41:59 And when there is this self-centred activity, it creates a lot of damage, doesn't it, to yourself and to people around you.
42:14 No? What is the matter with all of you? Have you gone to sleep? If I am occupied with myself most of the time either consciously or unconsciously – or only in my bedroom, and when I come out of my bedroom I am not so self-centred – my relationship with another, what happens?
42:48 What happens in my relationship to another, intimate or not, what goes on in that relationship?
43:10 Q: You don't ever really relate.
43:14 K: Therefore what happens? There is no actual relationship, there is no actual interchange. What happens? I live in isolation, don't I?
43:34 Have you noticed that? And then what takes place when you are so isolated?
43:53 What takes place?
43:55 Q: You begin to get afraid.
44:03 K: You are afraid and so on, but is that all? Go into it a little more.
44:16 Do you have any affection then?
44:23 Do you have any sense of love if you are so occupied with yourself?
44:37 You shake your head, you say, no. So which is important, self-centredness or the other?
44:54 And if the other is important – affection, care, love – if that is important, and you see that it is really the only important thing in relationship, then what takes place?
45:22 Doesn't dependency disappear?
45:44 So we were asking whether it is possible to have a very young mind.
45:54 I mean by young, a very fresh, clear, free mind.
46:06 After all, youth sees something, and does it.
46:13 Sees something that he has to do and does it – decision is immediate. No? Are you like that? Oh, for God's sake.
46:30 That is one of the qualities of youth, isn't it? It may be called impetuous.
46:41 But the action is instantaneous.
46:50 There is no hesitation. You grasp it immediately.
46:57 That is one of the qualities of youth, isn't it? Or are you all so old already?
47:18 Also, one of the qualities of youth is not to accept authority.
47:29 Ah, you wake up to that, do you? My God!
47:39 Which means what? To do what you want to do?
47:49 Is that the reason you don't accept authority? Which is permissiveness. Or it might be that you think authority is old-fashioned, Victorian, all that old stuff, and you are the new generation with an extraordinary set of new moralities?
48:20 Is that it?
48:28 You understand what we are talking about? That is to have a mind that is not broken up, as the intellect, the emotions, dependency, searching for greater satisfaction, a mind that is not splintered.
48:54 Oh, for goodness sake. Don't you want to find out about all this? Do you really want to find out? What will you pay for it? Not in coin – that becomes a market, you can buy it.
49:18 I am not selling you anything. So, what will you pay for it? You say, I would like to have such a marvellous mind, that would be extraordinary to have such a mind – what will you do about it?
49:44 Come on, what will you do about it? Just listen to the idea of it, to the description of it and say, how lovely to have it, but I can't.
49:56 Therefore it just becomes an idea and you throw it out. But if you really want it, if you really care for such a mind, what will you do about it?
50:19 Will you give your attention? Not to what is being said – to your own activity, to your own way of thinking, looking, the way you think, the way you behave, if you are frightened, if you are anxious, if you are worried.
50:55 Will you pay attention to all that? If you don't, you won't have the other, obviously. You may want it, sitting in an armchair and say, how lovely it would be, and go on your usual way.
51:15 But if you say, look, this is utterly important, because then your relationship with another changes completely.
51:36 Then your brain is never, never in conflict with anything, especially psychologically – it is not in battle with itself.
51:55 It also means to be totally, completely free of all psychological attachment.
52:04 Then there is no fear. Then when there is no attachment there is affection, care, love.
52:34 And also, one of the qualities of this kind of mind is to be free of occupation.
52:55 Never to be occupied, so that the brain has a rest.
53:09 Which means that you have really gone into yourself very deeply, seen the nature of your thinking, all that, and that means a mind that is very quiet.
53:34 You have heard the word meditation, have you?
53:41 Have you? Do you want to know about it?
53:53 Meditation is to have such a mind.
54:00 It is the mind that is really mature, completely free from fear, a life that is not broken up, it is whole.
54:21 To inquire into that is the beginning of meditation. You understand? Not sitting cross-legged and going off into all kinds of tantrums, but to go into oneself very, very deeply and find out why one is afraid, if one is attached, if one has problems, why thought has taken tremendous importance and all that, so that one lives free of all illusion.
55:07 That is part of meditation. But there is much more in meditation – we can't go into that now. Because unless you have done this, you can't go on, you can't go deeper into meditation.
55:26 If you do, it merely becomes a description and valueless.
55:38 Q: What makes you think we can all do that?
55:45 K: I didn't say you could all do it. I said if you want to. If that is the thing that is most important in life, you do it.
55:57 If you say it is most important that I become the greatest, or a great painter or a great musician, you work for it.
56:07 You don't sit down and say, I will be a great painter, and do nothing about it. You paint, you work, you go on.
56:22 It isn't luck. You would like to think it is, it isn't. It is like everything else in life.
56:39 If you see the world as a mess, which it is actually, a dreadful mess, and each human being has contributed to it and when you see the truth of that, you say you are that.
56:59 You are that mess. Will you change, do something about that mess in yourself? Or just say, I am a mess but I am sorry, I can't do very much, I will alter a little bit here and there, polish this, and all that.
57:21 It means you have to give your attention, your care, your love to find this.
57:29 You understand?
57:44 Q: You are going away now for six months. Are you going to write a letter to us? You are going away now for six months.
57:54 K: Yes.
57:56 Q: Are you going to write a letter to us?
58:00 K: Yes, I am writing a letter to all the schools, because I want to keep in touch with the schools. There are five schools in India, there is one here, there is one at Ojai in California, one in Canada, and if I may, I would like to write a letter to them, and you will have those letters every fortnight.
58:28 You can read it or not read it, amuse yourself with it or take it seriously, do whatever you like with it.
58:36 It is up to you. If you don't want to read it, throw it out. If you want to read it, read it very carefully, find out.
58:50 Find out what he wants to say. I want to tell you this now, you are listening. In the same way, these letters are to convey a dialogue.
59:03 But if you don't want to listen, it is perfectly all right, you won't hurt me.
59:12 If you want to tear it to pieces and throw it out, down the drain...
59:20 Q: Krishnaji, earlier you talked about work, say, working to be a painter.
59:27 That, I think we know, is fairly straight forward. What is the nature of the work that you are talking about?
59:35 K: The nature of the work I am talking about is to observe the whole structure of our human existence – the nature of it, the way we live, the way we talk, the way we behave, whether it is possible to be free of this self-centred activity.
1:00:01 – all that I am talking about.
1:00:10 We better stop, isn't it one o'clock? It is one o'clock, isn't it? Is that enough? Right.