Krishnamurti Subtitles

What will make us change?

Brockwood Park - 25 August 1979

Public Talk 1



0:43 I'm sorry the weather
is so foul.
  
1:03 I am sure
 
1:05 many of you have come
with your personal problems
  
1:14 and hope by these talks
they will be solved,
  
1:25 but they can only
be solved if we apply
  
1:33 self choiceless awareness
 
1:42 and a quality of
religious wholeness.
  
1:50 I mean
- we mean by 'religion' -
  
1:54 not beliefs,
dogmas, rituals
  
1:59 and the vast network
of superstition,
  
2:05 but religion in the deep
sense of that word,
  
2:08 which only
comes into being
  
2:11 when there is this
self-awareness and meditation.
  
2:19 And that is what we are
going to talk about
  
2:22 during these four talks
 
2:29 and two question and answer
meetings, as has been explained.
  
2:43 To go into this matter
rather deeply,
  
2:50 not only to be aware,
naturally and easily,
  
2:59 with our own
particular problems,
  
3:04 which are related with
the problems of the world,
  
3:09 because we human beings
 
3:12 are more or less alike throughout
the world, psychologically.
  
3:17 You may have different
colour, different culture,
  
3:22 different habits
and customs,
  
3:27 but in spite of that,
 
3:32 all human beings go through
a great deal of travail,
  
3:37 a great deal of sorrow,
 
3:39 great anxieties,
loneliness,
  
3:43 despairs, depressions.
 
3:49 Not being able
to solve them,
  
3:54 they seek salvation
through somebody else,
  
4:03 through various forms
of beliefs, dogmas
  
4:07 and acceptance
of authorities.
  
4:14 So when we are
discussing,
  
4:17 talking over together
these problems,
  
4:24 if we merely
confine ourselves
  
4:26 to our own particular
little problem,
  
4:32 then that
self-centred activity
  
4:38 only makes it
more narrow,
  
4:45 more limited,
 
4:48 and therefore it becomes
more of a prison.
  
4:54 Whereas if we could
 
4:56 during these talks
and dialogues,
  
4:59 or questions
and answers,
  
5:03 if we could
relate ourselves
  
5:09 to the whole
of humankind,
  
5:17 to the whole
of humanity.
  
5:20 We are part
of that humanity.
  
5:26 Over in the East they suffer
just as much as you do;
  
5:32 they have
their sorrows,
  
5:36 their unhappiness,
 
5:39 their utter loneliness,
 
5:43 a sense of negligence
by the society;
  
5:49 there is no security,
 
5:53 no certainty;
 
5:56 they are confused
as much as we are here.
  
6:00 So we are essentially,
deeply psychologically
  
6:05 part of that humanity.
 
6:09 I think this must be
understood really,
  
6:13 not merely verbally,
or intellectually,
  
6:17 or through reason,
but one has to feel this.
  
6:22 It is not a sentiment, or a
romantic idea, but an actuality,
  
6:31 that we are part of
this whole of humankind
  
6:35 and therefore we have
a tremendous responsibility.
  
6:48 And to bring about
 
6:52 a unity of all
other human beings,
  
6:58 it is only religion
can do this,
  
7:02 bring us all together.
 
7:05 Not politics,
 
7:09 not science,
 
7:12 not some new
philosophy,
  
7:16 or some expansive
economy,
  
7:24 or various organisations
- political, religious -
  
7:29 none of them are going
to bring us together,
  
7:32 as a whole.
 
7:35 I think this one has
to realise very deeply,
  
7:39 that no organisation
 
7:43 - religious, political,
economic,
  
7:46 or the various forms of
United Nations organisations -
  
7:53 will bring man together.
 
7:56 It is only religion,
 
8:01 in the deep sense
of that word,
  
8:08 can bring us
all together.
  
8:12 Religion
- we mean by that word
  
8:17 not all that is going
on in the world,
  
8:20 the various superstitions,
the make-belief,
  
8:25 the hierarchical set-up,
 
8:29 the dogmas, the rituals,
the beliefs -
  
8:33 religion is far
beyond all that;
  
8:37 it is a way of living,
daily.
  
8:46 And if we could
think over together,
  
8:50 think together,
 
8:54 not about something,
 
8:57 but have the capacity
 
9:00 to be able to look,
 
9:04 hear and think
together.
  
9:11 Could we during
these talks do that?
  
9:16 Not that we must agree
with each other,
  
9:20 or accept each other's
opinions or judgements,
  
9:25 but rather putting aside our
own particular point of view,
  
9:32 our own experience,
 
9:35 our own conclusions.
 
9:37 If we can set those aside
 
9:40 and have the capacity
to think together,
  
9:47 not about something,
 
9:51 which is fairly easy,
 
9:58 but to be able to see
the same thing together,
  
10:05 to hear the same
meaning, significance,
  
10:12 the depth of a word,
 
10:17 to hear the same song,
 
10:21 not interpret it according
to your like and dislike,
  
10:25 but to hear it together.
 
10:29 Because I think
it is very important
  
10:35 to be able
to think together,
  
10:41 not as a group,
 
10:47 having the same thought,
 
10:50 the same point of view,
 
10:53 the same outlook,
 
11:00 but having set aside one's
own particular idiosyncrasies,
  
11:07 habits of thought,
 
11:10 come together
in thought.
  
11:18 Say, for instance, we can
think together about belief.
  
11:24 We can argue
for it or against it.
  
11:28 We can see
how important belief is,
  
11:31 to have some kind of
psychological security.
  
11:36 And being desirous of that security,
we'll believe in anything.
  
11:47 This is happening
in the world.
  
11:52 Belief in the most
ridiculous nonsense,
  
11:56 both economically,
religiously, and in every way.
  
12:02 So we can think about a belief
together, agreeing or disagreeing.
  
12:11 But we are trying
something else,
  
12:15 which is not thinking
about something,
  
12:19 but thinking itself
together.
  
12:22 I wonder if I am
making myself clear.
  
12:33 No two people apparently
are capable of thinking together,
  
12:38 unless there is
some catastrophe,
  
12:43 unless there is some
great sorrow, a crisis,
  
12:48 then people come together
and think together,
  
12:55 about a war, and so on.
 
13:01 It is always thinking
together about something.
  
13:08 Right?
 
13:11 But we are trying something,
which is to think together.
  
13:19 Which is only possible if we for
the moment forget ourselves,
  
13:25 our own problems,
our own inclinations,
  
13:29 our intellectual capacities,
and so on, so on,
  
13:32 and meet each other.
 
13:40 That requires a certain
sense of attention,
  
13:46 a certain sense
of awareness,
  
13:53 that each one of us
are together
  
13:59 in the quality
of thinking.
  
14:01 I don't know how to express
it more than that.
  
14:05 Could we do that
 
14:10 about all our problems?
 
14:13 We can think together
about our problems,
  
14:17 but to have the capacity
 
14:21 to think
at the same level,
  
14:25 with the same intensity,
 
14:30 not about something,
 
14:32 but the feeling
of thinking together.
  
14:36 I wonder if you get it?
 
14:45 If we could do that,
 
14:49 we can go together
into many things.
  
14:57 That means a certain
quality of freedom,
  
15:02 a certain sense
of detachment,
  
15:06 not forced, compelled,
 
15:09 driven,
 
15:13 but the freedom
 
15:18 from our own backyard,
 
15:24 and then meet together.
 
15:35 Because this becomes
very important
  
15:43 when you want
to create a good society.
  
15:52 The philosophers
have talked about it,
  
15:55 the ancient Greeks,
the ancient Hindus,
  
15:59 and the Chinese
have talked about
  
16:02 bringing about
a good society.
  
16:07 That is, in the future.
 
16:10 Some time in the future
 
16:13 we will create
a good society
  
16:15 according to an ideal,
a pattern,
  
16:18 a certain sense
of ideals, and so on.
  
16:27 And apparently,
throughout the world
  
16:30 a good society has
never come into being;
  
16:35 there are good people,
maybe.
  
16:39 It is becoming more and more
difficult to be good in this world.
  
16:47 And we are always
looking to the future
  
16:50 to bring about
this good society,
  
16:55 good in the sense
 
16:57 where people can live
on this earth without wars,
  
17:01 peacefully, without
slaughtering each other,
  
17:07 without competition,
 
17:10 in a sense of great
freedom, and so on.
  
17:15 We are not defining
what is good for the moment;
  
17:19 the definition of the good
doesn't make one good.
  
17:28 So can we together think
 
17:37 the absolute need
 
17:41 of a good society?
 
17:46 The society is
what we are.
  
17:50 Society doesn't come
into being mysteriously,
  
17:55 it is not created by God;
 
17:57 man has created
this society,
  
17:59 with all the wars
and all that is going on.
  
18:02 We don't have to go into all
the horrible details of it.
  
18:12 And that society
is what we are,
  
18:16 what each human being is.
 
18:22 That is fairly obvious.
 
18:26 That is, we create
the society
  
18:30 with all its divisions,
 
18:33 with its conflicts,
with its terror,
  
18:37 with its inequality,
 
18:40 and so on, so on,
so on.
  
18:42 Because in ourselves
we are that,
  
18:46 which is in our relationship
with each other, we are that.
  
18:51 We may be fairly tolerant,
 
18:56 fairly affectionate
in private relationships
  
19:01 - even that's
rather doubtful -
  
19:06 but with regard to the rest
of the human beings we are not.
  
19:14 Which is again
fairly obvious,
  
19:16 when you read the
newspapers, magazines
  
19:19 and actually see
what is going on.
  
19:24 So, good society
 
19:28 can only come
into being
  
19:32 not in the future,
but now
  
19:35 when we human beings
 
19:36 have established right
relationship between ourselves.
  
19:41 Is that possible?
 
19:44 Not at some future date,
 
19:49 but actually
in the present,
  
19:52 in our daily life,
could we bring about
  
19:56 a relationship
that is essentially good?
  
20:01 Good being
without domination,
  
20:07 without personal
interest,
  
20:11 without personal vanity,
 
20:14 ambition, and so on.
 
20:16 So that there is a relationship
between each other
  
20:21 which is based
essentially on
  
20:27 - if I may use the word and
I hope you won't mind - love.
  
20:39 Is that possible?
 
20:46 Can we, as human beings,
 
20:50 living in this terrible world
which we have created...
  
20:59 Could we bring about
 
21:02 a radical change
in ourselves?
  
21:06 That is the whole point.
 
21:11 Some philosophers
and others have said
  
21:16 human conditioning is impossible
radically to change;
  
21:21 you can modify it,
 
21:24 you can polish it,
refine it,
  
21:27 but the basic quality
of conditioning
  
21:33 you cannot alter.
 
21:37 There are a great many people
who think that,
  
21:41 the Existentialists,
and so on, so on, so on.
  
21:50 Why do we accept
such conditioning?
  
21:56 You are following, I hope,
what we are talking about?
  
21:59 Why do we accept
our conditioning
  
22:03 which has brought about
 
22:05 this really mad world,
insane world?
  
22:14 Where we want peace and
we are supplying armaments.
  
22:19 Where we want peace
and we are nationalistically,
  
22:24 economically, socially
dividing each other.
  
22:27 We want peace and all religions
are making us separate,
  
22:32 as they are,
the organisations.
  
22:36 There is such vast
contradiction out there
  
22:40 as well as in ourselves.
 
22:46 I wonder if one is
aware of all this,
  
22:52 in ourselves, not what
is happening out there.
  
22:56 Most of us know
what is happening out there.
  
23:01 You don't have to be very clever
to find out, just observe.
  
23:09 And that confusion out there
 
23:12 is partly responsible
for our own conditioning.
  
23:19 We are asking:
 
23:21 is it possible
to bring about in ourselves
  
23:25 a radical transformation
of this?
  
23:30 Because only then
we can have a good society
  
23:37 where we won't
hurt each other,
  
23:40 both psychologically
as well as physically.
  
23:47 When one asks this
question of ourselves,
  
23:54 what is our deep response
to that question?
  
24:05 One is conditioned,
 
24:08 not only as an Englishman, or a
German, or Frenchman, and so on,
  
24:14 but also one is conditioned
by various forms of desires,
  
24:20 beliefs,
 
24:26 pleasures,
 
24:31 and conflicts,
psychological conflicts
  
24:34 - all that contributes
to this conditioning, and more.
  
24:39 We will go into it.
 
24:41 We are asking ourselves,
 
24:45 thinking together
 
24:50 - because we are thinking
together I hope -
  
24:53 can this conditioning,
 
24:57 can this human prison
 
25:06 with its griefs, loneliness,
anxieties,
  
25:12 personal assertions,
 
25:16 personal demands,
fulfilments, and all that
  
25:19 - that is our
conditioning,
  
25:21 that is our
consciousness,
  
25:28 and our consciousness
is its content.
  
25:36 And we are asking:
 
25:38 can that whole structure
be transformed?
  
25:46 Otherwise we will never
have peace in this world.
  
25:55 There will be perhaps
little modifications,
  
26:00 but man will be fighting,
quarrelling,
  
26:04 perpetually in conflict
within himself and outwardly.
  
26:13 So that is our question.
 
26:21 Can we think together
with regard to this?
  
26:31 Then the question arises:
what is one to do?
  
26:40 One is aware
that one is conditioned,
  
26:44 knows, conscious.
 
26:50 This conditioning has come into
being by one's own desires,
  
26:58 self-centred activities,
 
27:06 through lack of right relationship
with each other,
  
27:14 one's own
sense of loneliness.
  
27:20 One may live among
a great many people,
  
27:22 have intimate
relationships,
  
27:27 but there is always
this sense of
  
27:30 empty whirl
within oneself.
  
27:36 All that is
our conditioning,
  
27:40 intellectual, psychological,
emotional,
  
27:44 and also physical,
naturally.
  
27:48 Now can this totally
be transformed?
  
27:54 That I feel is
the real revolution.
  
28:01 In that there is
no violence.
  
28:09 Now can we do it
together?
  
28:14 Or if you do it,
 
28:16 if you understand
the conditioning
  
28:20 and resolve
that conditioning,
  
28:27 and another is
conditioned,
  
28:30 will the man who is conditioned
listen to another?
  
28:34 You understand?
 
28:39 Perhaps you are
unconditioned,
  
28:41 will I listen to you?
 
28:47 And what will
make me listen?
  
28:53 What pressure,
 
28:57 what influence,
 
28:59 what reward?
 
29:05 What will make me
listen to you,
  
29:10 with my heart, with my mind,
with my whole being?
  
29:15 Because if one can
listen so completely,
  
29:23 perhaps the solution
is there.
  
29:27 But apparently
we don't seem to listen.
  
29:34 So we are asking:
 
29:36 what will make
a human being,
  
29:40 knowing his conditioning
- most of us do
  
29:45 if you are at all
intelligently aware -
  
29:50 what will make us
change?
  
29:56 Please put this question
to ourselves, each one of us,
  
30:01 find out what will make
each one of us bring about
  
30:07 a change, a freedom
from this conditioning?
  
30:12 Not to jump into
another conditioning:
  
30:18 it is like leaving Catholicism
and becoming a Buddhist.
  
30:22 It is the same pattern.
 
30:32 So what will make one,
each one of us,
  
30:38 who, one is quite sure,
 
30:42 is desirous of bringing
about a good society,
  
30:47 what will make him
change?
  
30:58 Change has been promised
through reward
  
31:03 - heaven,
a new kind of carrot,
  
31:08 a new ideology,
a new community,
  
31:14 new set of groups,
 
31:17 new gurus
 
31:20 - a reward.
 
31:22 Or a punishment:
 
31:25 'If you don't do this
you will go to Hell.'
  
31:30 So our whole thinking
 
31:31 is based on this principle
of reward and punishment.
  
31:37 'I will do this if I can
get something out of it.'
  
31:45 But that kind of attitude,
or that way of thinking,
  
31:49 doesn't bring about
radical change.
  
31:54 And that change
is absolutely necessary.
  
31:59 I am sure we are
all aware of it.
  
32:07 So what shall we do?
 
32:10 Some of you
 
32:13 have listened to the speaker
for a number of years.
  
32:22 I wonder why.
 
32:28 And having listened,
it becomes
  
32:31 a new kind of mantram.
 
32:35 You know
what that word is?
  
32:38 It is a Sanskrit word
 
32:41 meaning,
in its true meaning
  
32:45 is not to be self-centred
 
32:53 and to ponder over
 
32:56 about not becoming.
 
32:59 The meaning of that is that
- mantram means that.
  
33:04 Abolish self-centredness
 
33:14 and ponder, meditate,
 
33:16 look at yourself so that
you don't become something.
  
33:21 That is the real meaning
of that word
  
33:24 which has been ruined by all the
transcendental meditation nonsense.
  
33:34 So some of you
have listened for many years.
  
33:45 And do we listen
and therefore bring about a change
  
33:51 or you have got used
to the words
  
33:56 and just carry on?
 
34:01 So we are asking:
 
34:02 what will make man,
a human being
  
34:06 who has lived for
so many million years,
  
34:10 carrying on
the same old pattern,
  
34:14 inherited
the same instincts,
  
34:18 self-preservation,
fear, security,
  
34:24 sense of self-concern
 
34:28 which brings about
great isolation,
  
34:32 what will make
that man change?
  
34:46 A new God?
 
34:51 A new form
of entertainment?
  
34:56 A new religious
football?
  
35:02 New kind of circus with all the
- you know - with all that stuff?
  
35:09 What will make us
change?
  
35:15 Sorrow apparently
has not changed man,
  
35:22 because we have
suffered a great deal,
  
35:26 not only individually,
but collectively,
  
35:29 as a whole of mankind we have
suffered an enormous amount
  
35:34 - wars, disease,
 
35:38 pain, death.
 
35:44 We have suffered
enormously,
  
35:48 and apparently sorrow
has not changed us.
  
35:57 Nor fear.
 
36:06 That hasn't changed us,
 
36:09 because our mind is
pursuing constantly,
  
36:13 seeking out pleasure,
 
36:16 and even that pleasure
is the same pleasure
  
36:19 in different forms,
that hasn't changed us.
  
36:23 So what will make us
change?
  
36:33 We don't seem to be able
to do anything voluntarily.
  
36:41 We will do things
under pressure.
  
36:48 If there was
no pressure,
  
36:51 no sense of reward
or punishment
  
36:54 - because reward and punishment
are too silly to even think about.
  
37:01 If there was no
sense of future
  
37:06 - I don't know if you have gone
into that whole question -
  
37:09 of future,
 
37:11 that may be our deception,
psychologically.
  
37:16 We will go into that
presently.
  
37:19 If you abandon
all those,
  
37:26 then what is the quality
of the mind
  
37:30 that faces absolutely
the present?
  
37:34 Do you understand
my question?
  
37:38 Are we communicating
with each other?
  
37:41 Please, say yes or no,
I don't know where we are.
  
37:50 I hope I'm not talking
to myself.
  
38:01 If one realises
that one is in a prison,
  
38:06 that prison created
by oneself,
  
38:12 oneself being
the result of the past
  
38:15 - parents, grandparents
and so on, so on -
  
38:17 inherited, acquired,
imposed,
  
38:25 that is our psychological prison
in which we live.
  
38:37 And naturally, the instinct is
to break through that prison.
  
38:50 Now, does one realise,
 
38:55 not as an idea,
 
38:58 not as a concept,
but as an actuality,
  
39:03 psychologically a fact?
 
39:08 When one faces
that fact,
  
39:16 why is it even then
there is no possibility of change?
  
39:23 You understand
my question?
  
39:41 This has been a problem,
 
39:45 a problem
for all serious people,
  
39:50 for all people
who are concerned
  
39:58 with the human tragedy,
the human misery,
  
40:04 and asking themselves
why don't we all bring about
  
40:09 a sense of clarity
in ourselves,
  
40:14 a sense of freedom,
 
40:18 a sense of being
essentially good?
  
40:26 I don't know
if you have not noticed,
  
40:29 the intellectuals, the
literary people, the writers,
  
40:31 and the so-called
leaders of the world
  
40:36 are not talking about
bringing about a good society,
  
40:39 they have given it up.
 
40:45 We were talking the other day
to some of these people
  
40:47 and they said,
'What nonsense that is,
  
40:49 that is old-fashioned,
throw it out.
  
40:52 There is no such thing
as a good society any more.
  
40:56 This is Victorian,
stupid, nonsensical.
  
41:02 We have to accept things
as they are and live with them.'
  
41:07 And probably for most of us
it is like that.
  
41:17 So you and I,
as two friends
  
41:22 talking over this,
what shall we do?
  
41:30 Authority of another
doesn't change,
  
41:33 doesn't bring about this change,
right?
  
41:39 If I accept you
as my authority,
  
41:42 because I want to bring about
a revolution in myself
  
41:46 and so perhaps bring about
a good society,
  
41:50 the very idea
of my following you,
  
41:55 as you instructing me,
 
41:59 that ends good society.
 
42:01 I wonder if you see that?
 
42:05 I am not good
because you tell me to be good,
  
42:15 or I accept you as the supreme
authority over righteousness,
  
42:21 and I follow you.
 
42:23 The very acceptance
of authority and obedience
  
42:28 is the very destruction
of a good society.
  
42:34 Isn't that so?
I wonder if you see this.
  
42:44 May we go further
into this matter?
  
42:48 If I have a guru
- thank god I haven't got one -
  
42:52 if I have a guru
and I follow him,
  
42:59 what have I done
to myself?
  
43:02 What I have done
in the world?
  
43:07 Nothing.
 
43:09 He tells me
some nonsense,
  
43:12 how to meditate,
this or that,
  
43:14 and I will get marvellous
experience or levitate,
  
43:18 and all the rest
of that nonsense,
  
43:23 and my intention is
to bring about a good society
  
43:30 where we can be happy,
 
43:32 where there is
a sense of affection,
  
43:36 a relationship,
so that there is no barrier,
  
43:39 that is my longing.
 
43:42 I go to you as my guru
and what have I done?
  
43:45 I have destroyed the very thing
that I wanted
  
43:52 Because authority,
 
43:57 apart from law
and all the rest of that,
  
44:00 psychological authority
is divisive,
  
44:06 is in its very nature
separative.
  
44:12 You up there
and I down below,
  
44:16 and so you are always progressing
higher and higher,
  
44:19 and I am also progressing
higher and higher, we never meet!
  
44:24 (Laughter)
 
44:26 You laugh, I know,
 
44:28 but actually this is
what we are doing.
  
44:34 So, can I realise
 
44:39 authority with its implication
of organisation
  
44:43 will never free me?
 
44:49 Authority gives one
a sense of security.
  
44:55 I don't know, I am confused,
you know,
  
45:00 or at least
I think you know,
  
45:03 that's good enough
for me.
  
45:04 I invest my energy
 
45:08 and my demand for
security in you,
  
45:12 in what you
are talking about.
  
45:16 And we create an organisation
around that,
  
45:20 and that very organisation
becomes the prison.
  
45:24 I don't know
if you know all this?
  
45:28 That's why
one should not belong
  
45:31 to any spiritual
organisation,
  
45:36 however promising, however
enticing, however romantic.
  
45:46 Can we even accept,
see that together?
  
45:52 You understand
my question?
  
45:53 See it together,
to be a fact,
  
45:56 and therefore when we see
that together it is finished.
  
46:05 Seeing that the very
nature of authority,
  
46:08 with its organisation,
religious and otherwise,
  
46:12 is separative;
 
46:18 and obedience,
 
46:24 setting up
the hierarchical system,
  
46:29 which is what is happening
in the world and therefore
  
46:31 which is part of the destructive
nature of the world,
  
46:37 seeing the truth of that,
throw it out.
  
46:43 Can we do that?
 
46:46 So that none of us
- I am sorry -
  
46:50 so that none of us belong
to any spiritual organisations.
  
47:00 That is, religious
organisations,
  
47:02 Catholic, Protestant,
Hindu, Buddhist, none.
  
47:12 By belonging to something
we feel secure.
  
47:19 Right?
Obviously.
  
47:22 But belonging to something
invariably brings about insecurity,
  
47:27 because in itself
it is separative.
  
47:31 You have your guru,
your authority,
  
47:33 you are a Catholic,
Protestant,
  
47:35 and somebody else
is something else.
  
47:39 So they never meet,
though all organised religions say,
  
47:43 'We're all working
together for truth.'
  
47:50 So can we, listening to each other,
to this fact,
  
47:58 finish from our thinking
 
48:02 all sense of acceptance
of authority,
  
48:07 psychological authority,
 
48:10 and therefore all the organisations
created round it,
  
48:16 then what happens?
 
48:22 Have I dropped authority
because you have said so
  
48:31 and I see the destructive nature
of these so-called organisations?
  
48:37 And do I see it as a fact and
therefore with intelligence?
  
48:43 Or just vaguely
accept it?
  
48:47 I don't know
if you are following this?
  
48:50 If one sees the fact,
 
48:52 the very perception
of that fact is intelligence,
  
48:57 and in that intelligence
there is security,
  
49:01 not in some
superstitious nonsense.
  
49:06 I wonder if you see?
 
49:09 Are we meeting
each other?
  
49:15 I am a bit lost.
 
49:16 Would you tell me,
are we meeting each other?
  
49:18 Q:Yes.
 
49:20 K: No, not verbally,
please.
  
49:23 That is very easy,
because we are all speaking English,
  
49:26 or French,
or whatever it is.
  
49:28 Intellectually, verbally
is not meeting together.
  
49:34 It is when you see
the fact together.
  
49:48 Now can we...
So we are asking
  
49:51 can we look at the fact
of our conditioning?
  
49:58 Not the idea
of our conditioning.
  
50:03 The fact that
we are British,
  
50:06 German, American,
Russian,
  
50:09 or Hindu, or Eastern,
or whatever it is,
  
50:12 that is one thing.
 
50:16 Conditioning brought about
through economic reasons,
  
50:23 climate, food, clothes,
 
50:27 and so on, physical.
 
50:30 But also there is a great deal
of psychological conditioning.
  
50:39 Can we look at that
as fact?
  
50:46 Like fear.
 
50:49 Can you look at that?
 
50:58 Or if you can't
for the moment,
  
51:01 can we look at the hurts
that we have received,
  
51:04 the wounds, the psychological
wounds that we have treasured,
  
51:11 the wounds that we have
received from childhood.
  
51:17 Look at it,
not analyse it.
  
51:22 The psychotherapists
 
51:25 - sorry I hope
there aren't any here -
  
51:28 the psychotherapists
go back,
  
51:32 investigate into the past.
 
51:35 That is, seek the cause of the wounds
that one has received,
  
51:44 investigating,
analysing
  
51:47 the whole movement
of the past.
  
51:54 That is generally called
analysis, psychotherapy.
  
52:01 Now, discovering the cause,
does that help?
  
52:09 And you have taken
a lot of time, years perhaps
  
52:14 - it is a game
that we all play,
  
52:18 because we never want
to face the fact,
  
52:20 but 'Let's investigate how the
fact has come into being.'
  
52:25 I don't know
if you are following all this?
  
52:32 So you are expending
a great deal of energy
  
52:36 and probably
a great deal of money
  
52:40 into proficient investigation
into the past,
  
52:46 or your own investigation,
if you are capable of it.
  
52:54 And we are saying,
such forms of analysis
  
52:59 are not only separative,
because the analyser
  
53:05 thinks he is different from the thing
he is analysing, right?
  
53:09 You are following
all this?
  
53:15 So, he maintains this division
through analysis,
  
53:22 whereas the obvious fact is
the analyser is the analysed.
  
53:29 I wonder
if you see that?
  
53:32 The moment one
recognises that
  
53:35 the analyser
is the analysed,
  
53:39 because when you are angry
you are that
  
53:46 - is this a puzzle? -
 
53:49 that the observer
is the observed.
  
53:55 When there is that
actual reality of that,
  
54:00 then analysis
has no meaning,
  
54:03 there is only
pure observation
  
54:05 of the fact which
is happening now.
  
54:08 I wonder
if you see this?
  
54:16 It may be rather difficult
because most of us
  
54:19 are so conditioned
to the analytical process,
  
54:24 self-examination,
 
54:28 introspective
investigation,
  
54:31 we are so accustomed to that,
we are so conditioned by it,
  
54:34 that perhaps
if something new is said,
  
54:38 you instantly reject,
or you withdraw.
  
54:43 So please investigate,
look at it.
  
54:53 We are saying:
 
54:56 is it possible
to look at the fact
  
55:00 as it is happening now
 
55:06 - anger, jealousy,
violence,
  
55:10 pleasure, fear,
whatever it is -
  
55:13 to look at it,
not analyse it,
  
55:19 just to look at it,
 
55:23 and in that very
observation
  
55:26 is the observer merely
observing the fact
  
55:31 as something separate
from himself,
  
55:34 or he is the fact?
 
55:37 I wonder
if you get this?
  
55:41 Am I making
myself clear?
  
55:45 You understand
the distinction?
  
55:48 Most of us are
conditioned to the idea
  
55:53 that the observer is different
from the thing observed.
  
56:00 I have been greedy,
 
56:03 I have been violent.
 
56:09 So at the moment of violence
there is no division,
  
56:13 it is only later on
thought picks it up
  
56:16 and separates itself
from the fact.
  
56:21 So the observer
is the past
  
56:25 looking at actually
what is happening now.
  
56:30 I wonder
if you get all this?
  
56:37 So can you look
at the fact
  
56:41 - you are angry, misery,
loneliness, whatever it is -
  
56:45 look at that fact
without the observer saying
  
56:50 'I am separate and
looking at it differently.'
  
56:53 You understand?
 
56:55 Or does he recognise
the fact is himself,
  
57:01 there is no division between
the fact and himself?
  
57:06 The fact is himself.
I wonder if you see.
  
57:10 And therefore what
takes place when
  
57:14 that actuality
takes place?
  
57:20 You understand
what I am saying?
  
57:24 Look, my mind has been conditioned
to look at the fact,
  
57:29 which is loneliness
- let's take that,
  
57:32 no, we began with being hurt,
from childhood.
  
57:36 Let's look at it.
 
57:38 I have been accustomed,
used to thinking
  
57:44 that I am different
from the hurt, right?
  
57:53 And therefore my action
towards that hurt
  
57:56 is either suppression,
avoidance,
  
58:00 or building round
my hurt
  
58:05 a resistance, so that
I don't get hurt any more.
  
58:09 Therefore that hurt is making me
more and more isolated,
  
58:15 more and more afraid.
 
58:17 So this division has
taken place because
  
58:21 I think I am different
from the hurt. Right?
  
58:27 You are following
all this?
  
58:29 But the hurt is me.
 
58:32 The 'me' is the image
that I have created about myself
  
58:36 which is hurt.
Right?
  
58:40 I wonder
if you see all this?
  
58:43 May I go on?
You are following all this?
  
58:48 So, I have created an image
through education,
  
58:53 through my family,
through society,
  
58:56 through all the religious
ideas of soul, separativeness,
  
59:01 individual, all that, I have
created an image about myself,
  
59:05 and you tread on that
image - I get wounded.
  
59:12 Then I say
that hurt is not me;
  
59:17 I must do something
about that hurt.
  
59:20 So I maintain the division
between the hurt and myself.
  
59:26 But the fact is the image is me,
which has been hurt.
  
59:30 Right?
 
59:32 So can I look
at that fact?
  
59:39 Look at the fact
that the image is myself,
  
59:44 and as long as I have
the image about myself
  
59:47 somebody is going
to tread on it.
  
59:50 That's a fact.
 
59:57 Can the mind be free
of the image?
  
1:00:04 Because one realises
as long as that image exists
  
1:00:09 you are going to do something
to it, put a pin into it,
  
1:00:15 and therefore
there will be hurt
  
1:00:19 with the result of isolation,
fear, resistance,
  
1:00:24 building a wall
round myself
  
1:00:28 - all that takes place
when there is the division
  
1:00:31 between the observer and
the observed, which is the hurt.
  
1:00:38 Right?
 
1:00:42 This is not intellectual,
please.
  
1:00:45 This is just ordinary
observing oneself,
  
1:00:49 which we began by
saying 'self-awareness.'
  
1:00:58 So, what takes place
then,
  
1:01:01 when the observer
is the observed
  
1:01:07 - you understand? -
the actuality of it,
  
1:01:09 not the idea of it,
 
1:01:12 then what takes place?
 
1:01:16 I have been hurt
from childhood,
  
1:01:21 through school,
through parents,
  
1:01:24 through other boys
and girls - you know -
  
1:01:27 I have been hurt, wounded,
psychologically.
  
1:01:31 And I carry that hurt
throughout my life,
  
1:01:35 hidden,
 
1:01:38 anxious, frightened,
 
1:01:43 and I know
the result of all that.
  
1:01:49 And now I see
that hurt exists
  
1:01:54 as long as the image
which I have created,
  
1:01:57 which has been
brought about together
  
1:02:01 - as long as that exists,
there will be hurt.
  
1:02:06 That image is me.
 
1:02:10 Can I look at that fact?
 
1:02:13 Not as an idea looking at it,
but the actual fact
  
1:02:19 that the image is hurt,
 
1:02:22 the image is me.
 
1:02:24 I wonder if you see?
 
1:02:26 Right?
 
1:02:28 Could we come together on that
one point at least, think together?
  
1:02:35 Then what takes place?
 
1:02:39 Before I tried, the observer
tried to do something about it.
  
1:02:46 Here the observer
is absent,
  
1:02:49 therefore he can't do
anything about it.
  
1:02:52 You get it?
 
1:02:54 You understand
what has taken place?
  
1:02:59 Before the observer exerted
himself in suppressing it,
  
1:03:07 controlling it, not to be hurt,
isolating himself,
  
1:03:10 resisting, and
all the rest of it,
  
1:03:13 making a tremendous
effort.
  
1:03:16 But whereas
when the fact is
  
1:03:20 the observer
is the observed,
  
1:03:24 then what takes place?
 
1:03:28 Please do you want me
to tell you?
  
1:03:32 Then we are nowhere, then what
I tell you will have no meaning.
  
1:03:36 But if we have
come together,
  
1:03:40 think together
and come to this point,
  
1:03:44 then you will discover
for yourself
  
1:03:49 that as long as
you make an effort,
  
1:03:53 there is the division.
Right?
  
1:03:59 So, in pure observation
there is no effort,
  
1:04:04 and therefore the thing
 
1:04:07 which has been
put together as image
  
1:04:11 begins to dissolve.
 
1:04:22 That's the whole point.
 
1:04:25 We began by saying
'self-awareness,'
  
1:04:31 and the meditative quality
in that awareness
  
1:04:37 brings about a religious
sense of unity.
  
1:04:45 And human beings need
this enormous sense of unity
  
1:04:53 which cannot be found
through nationalities,
  
1:04:56 through all the rest
of that business.
  
1:05:00 So can we,
as human beings,
  
1:05:05 after listening
for perhaps an hour,
  
1:05:13 see at least
one fact together?
  
1:05:18 And seeing that fact together
resolve it completely,
  
1:05:30 so that we as human beings
are never hurt, psychologically.
  
1:05:39 In that thinking
together implies
  
1:05:43 that we both of us
see the same thing,
  
1:05:49 at the same time,
at the same level,
  
1:05:53 which means love.
 
1:05:55 You follow, sirs?
 
1:06:01 I think that's enough
for this morning, isn't it?
  
1:06:07 We'll meet again
tomorrow morning.