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BR80DSS1.2 - Are we helping each other not to be mediocre?
Brockwood Park, UK - 8 June 1980
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.2



0:19 Krishnamurti: If you will permit me, we shall talk for about twenty minutes or so and then you can ask questions and dialogue and so on. Shall we do that? Would you like that better than my talking all the time? Right? Right. Some of you, if I may ask, you have been here for some time, some years – what have you got out of it? Has it made you, Brockwood in the sense, not the lovely countryside but living in this small community for so many months and going off for a holiday and then coming back again, whether it has made you strong, it has made you serious, if it has brought about a different kind of intelligence, and if it has helped you not to be mediocre? Because the world is becoming more and more mediocre, superficial, concerned with a great many trivialities, and not wanting to be serious at all. Because for most people life has no meaning – they go to the office, factory, sales girls and boys, and so on, have little pleasure, disease, ill-health, conflict, and gradually die. So, if I may, we are asking you what has Brockwood given to you? Or what have you made of Brockwood? Are you serious at the end of your time here? Not more serious, but actually serious. I mean by that word ‘serious’ to take life not superficially, not adjust yourself to all the mischief that is going on in the world, not join the current violence, greed and commercialism. Has it helped you to be so serious? Or, when you leave you will be swallowed up, become like the rest of the world? And has it helped you not to live superficially, be concerned with trivialities? I mean by trivialities, concern about one’s own little self, its own little pleasures, accumulating a little money, this or that. We seem to be living more and more trivially. We seem to have no depth in ourselves. We are like a small, shallow, little pool reflecting the passing clouds, the storms, the misery, the confusion – and that pool can never be deep. So has this place, this community, living together, has it given you great depth so that you have understood the full meaning presently, as you grow older, the meaning of life, whether it is just an empty, meaningless existence, be only concerned with our own little problems, depressed, anxious, frightened? Or has this place and the community in which we are all living together helped you not to be mediocre? You know what I mean by mediocre? Not to be like the rest of the world, so that you can stand by yourself, not be dependent on anybody, either the priest, the government, economic circumstances, to be able to stand alone and face the world. Otherwise, if you are merely mediocre, ordinary, if I am common – I am not using these words in any sense of derogatory – common, then your being here has no meaning whatsoever. So I am asking, are we helping each other not to be mediocre? Are we helping each other to be able to stand alone? That means face our own problems, resolve them, be totally responsible for ourselves. You know, more and more, if you have observed, we are giving ourselves over to somebody. Politically, we are governed by somebody. If we have trouble, we go to the psychologist. We are constantly in a state of complaint and trying to resolve these problems through somebody else, through somebody’s experience, through somebody else’s knowledge. We don’t seem to be able to stand by ourselves and be totally responsible for ourselves. Now, is Brockwood helping you, living together, to be totally responsible for yourself? Which means not depend on anybody. And are we occupied from morning till night with ordinary trivialities of life? I am angry, I am superstitious, I am frightened – you know, just on the surface, never going deeply into ourselves? And are we becoming, in our living together here, intelligent? You may have a great deal of knowledge from books, know a great deal about mathematics, biology, physics and so on, you may pass ‘A’ level and ‘O’ level, get into a university, and then be swallowed up by this corrupt society. All that indicates a mind that is not intelligent. It is easy to accept the values of the society, if it has any values, slip into a comfortable little position – marriage, house, a few children, and the everlasting struggle. All that indicates, doesn’t it, an irrational way of living. And here, is your life becoming more rational, sane, healthy? So those are the questions I would like to ask, if I may, for you to consider and to talk about it, not just keep quiet. To discuss, to have a dialogue about it, so that through discussion, through a dialogue, through communication, verbally, we will discover for ourselves what we are, how we are thinking, what our feelings are, whether we are serious, whether we are just occupied with the daily, you know, trivial, ordinary things, whether you are only concerned with yourself. You may be concerned about others briefly, but mainly about yourself – how you look, how you walk, whether you are sexually excited, you know, all the time about oneself. And so such action must be very, very limited, small and petty. And that is the essence of triviality: this eternal occupation about oneself. So has living here, talking to each other, discussing, the staff and you, and the speaker, which is me, all together, are we creating here a new world, a new generation of people? Or just carry on from day to day, doing our little jobs and so on, so on, but not gathering enormous vitality. And you cannot have this vitality, this great energy, if you are mediocre, occupied with yourself. So, I have talked for nearly twenty minutes, and as I said, let’s talk, let’s verbally, you and me, the speaker, discuss all this. Don’t sit quietly, thinking all the things you would like to say and you daren’t say, but say it. Criticise me, question me.
17:27 Questioner: Sir, I would like to ask a question.
17:29 K: Just a minute, let me... Criticise me, question me, doubt what I am saying. Doubt – not only what I am saying but doubt of what you are thinking, of what you are feeling, why you behave this way or that way. Question it. Why, if things don’t go as you wish, you just go to pieces. Why? You understand all my questions? Now you question me – let’s talk about it together. I can sit much longer than you, silently. I have done this for many years, to sit quietly by myself. So if you sit quietly, not talk, I will also sit quietly and not talk.
19:07 Q: Sir, there is something that I think many of us get confused about in what you just said. We say that one shouldn’t be eternally preoccupied with ourselves and at the same time we say that we should look into ourselves. Now, the way many of us look into ourselves is actually to give ourselves a tremendous amount of attention, which is being preoccupied with the self.
19:42 K: So what is the question, sir?
19:43 Q: Well, is there a way of looking at yourself which is not quite so narcissistic, which is not quite so continually watching how you move, looking at your body, looking how your brain works, and all this? Because most of us, at times, feel that that is looking at the self.
20:09 K: You mean, how to look at yourself without being narcissistic. You know the word ‘narcissus’?
20:17 Q: Yes.

K: Oh, I’m glad – all right. That is, looking at yourself objectively, looking at yourself as though you are looking at somebody else, looking at yourself without any dislike or like. I am using very simple words, if I may. To look at yourself as you are. You see, if you make that into an occupation, say, I must look at myself all day, I must watch myself, how I walk, how I eat, how I think and feel, and all the rest of it, it becomes more and more and more self-centred, doesn’t it? Obviously. But if you can observe without identifying yourself. You understand? When you see a film, unless you are a little bit... unless you are very, very emotional and all the rest of it, you don’t identify yourself with what is happening there on the screen. You observe it. It may be fun, it may be exciting, it may be: Who killed JR? This is only the first time – I never heard about JR until I came here. In America it doesn’t exist. Here they are terribly excited, betting on it and every... at nine o’clock there is two or three minutes of JR in the news. You know what JR is, don’t you, all of you? So there is a way of looking at yourself which is to see exactly what you are, not alter it. Not say, ‘I must be this, I must not be that’ – just to observe, without any direction, without any opinion, without any judgement – just to watch yourself. You can’t do that all day, obviously. Do it sometimes – you know, play with it. Have you ever watched a bird? Have you ever watched birds, or is that out of your... You can’t do anything about it, can you? You can’t like or dislike; you just see it, the beauty of it, the wings as they land on a branch, the beak, the shape of it, the colour of it. In the same way, just watch it yourself, play with it.
24:26 Q: Is the identification with what you see the thing that makes it the preoccupation?
24:30 K: That’s it – the identification with what you see – ‘I am that’ or, ‘I am not that’ – this constant identification. That’s what narcissism is. Right.
24:58 Q: To come back to seriousness, I can see that it is a quality of the mind which is not related to a motive, so I don’t know how it really comes. It is not you are not serious because of a motive and...
25:25 K: I don’t quite follow what you mean, but I asked a question. I asked a question which was: has Brockwood, this community, living together, has it helped us to be non-mediocre? Right? I am asking that question. Let’s talk about it. Don’t sit quiet, please. All right?
26:04 Q: At least you see that you are mediocre but outside you might not be able to see it, you know?
26:13 K: First of all, are you mediocre?

Q: Yes.
26:17 K: How do you know?
26:19 Q: Well, but I am not any different. Even that is being mediocre, wanting to be different.
26:30 K: Do you know you are mediocre, ordinary? I am not insulting you when I am using these words – ordinary, common, like every… millions, like other people. Are you like that? Don’t look at her – this applies to all of us. Neither hot nor cold – you understand? – just tepid. Are you like that? And if you are, what are you going to do about it? Just accept that you are mediocre and carry on, yielding to circumstances? If you are well-placed, you are happy, you have everything you want. If you are not, you are jealous, frightened, anxious, all the rest of it. Are you like that? If you are, what will you do about it? Will you change? Will you say, I am mediocre. I know what mediocrity means. Clearly I have understood it, and break it, finish with it? Or you have a formed a pattern of mediocrity and you live in that, totally unaware of this pattern. Right? Please, let’s discuss. And are you able to stand alone? I know you are young and all the rest of it, but the feeling that you must stand alone and not be swallowed up by your parents, by your society, by your jobs, all that. Come on, sirs.
29:59 Q: If a person is not mediocre and he can stand alone and be independent then how...

K: Not independent – let’s go into the word carefully. Stand alone – what does it mean?
30:16 Q: Then how can you relate to the world?
30:19 K: If you stand alone, how can you be related to the world? Why should you be related to the world?
30:30 Q: The world supplies me with food and clothing.
30:32 K: Yes, all right. You earn a... you work and earn money. Is that what we mean by related to the world, just earn a livelihood?
30:53 Q: Well, that’s on a very superficial level.
30:57 K: Now, all right, now move further, go deeper.
31:02 Q: Yes.
31:04 K: What do you mean by related to the world, to the society? You mean the society.

Q: Yes.
31:11 K: Now what is the society? Who created it?
31:16 Q: People.

K: People. That is, your grandparents, my grandparents, his, hers – we all have created it. And so society is not different from me. Right? Be clear on that, very clear. Society is me. Right? Because I am violent, I am greedy, I am superstitious, I am frightened, I want pleasure, I want money, position, I am ambitious, I am arrogant, I am aggressive, violent. Right? I am that as a human being, so I have created a society which is what I want. Right? So what are you related to then? You understand my question? You say you are related... if you stand alone, how can you be related to society?
32:34 Q: You cannot.

K: Yes. I am not quite sure we understand the meaning of this, or rather the significance of that word ‘alone’. Do you understand what that word means? Go on, sir. I am talking again. Look, when I depend on you for my comfort, for my – what? I am lonely and I depend. I escape from that loneliness and I say, I depend on you. You’re more important than my loneliness. So I cling to you, I am attached to you. Right? Now is that standing alone? If I need somebody psychologically, inwardly – need, not only sexually but for encouragement, for psychological dependence, if I am with you I feel more happy, if I am not with you, I am lost. You follow? We encourage each other, exploit each other – you understand all this? – and is that standing alone? The word ‘alone’ means ‘all one’ but that’s a much later state of mind. Go on, sirs. Has Brockwood helped you, living here, to be intelligent? Not clever, not more learned, not have great deal of information about mathematics, history, geography and biology and all that. That is necessary also, but that does not necessarily bring about intelligence. Right? Right, sir? So...
36:30 Q: Could you say, sir, how one comes upon being able to stand alone?
36:47 K: First of all, do you see dependence? What is the consequence of dependence, psychologically? Of course, you depend on the postman, on the supermarket and all the rest of it, but we are talking of depending on somebody for one’s own identity, for one’s own pleasure, for one’s own comfort, for one’s own demands – all that. Does one see that? Or is this too serious for you? Because you have to face all this. So why not begin now? You have to face it in a couple of years, perhaps, or a little more. So why not begin now and learn – learn – how to face it? I can outdo you in silence.
39:01 Q: I don’t think we see the consequences, Krishnaji, of this way of relating to each other because that’s our relationship and I don’t see what other relationship you would have without these. You are implying that everything is in a sense negative, in the way we relate to each other, but I don’t think we really feel that it’s that negative, you know?
39:35 K: I don’t quite follow.

Q: You say there is attachment...
39:38 K: No, wait. Take attachment, to a person or to a belief or to some kind of ideal. Now, you’re attached to that. What does that attachment mean? Go into it very slowly, carefully. What does it mean?
40:04 Q: Well, on the one hand it seems to be a way of relating, and on the other I can see that’s an isolating...
40:09 K: Just see what the whole of... It’s like a stream. Follow it right through. Don’t say on one hand this and one hand that – follow it. What are the consequences of this attachment to a person, to a belief, to an idea? And why is one attached? What is the beginning of it? You understand? I am attached to you. Why am I attached to you? What is the origin of this desire, this urge to attach oneself to somebody? Think it out with me. I am not going to explain it. Work it out. Let’s think it out together.
41:11 Q: It’s the loneliness.
41:13 K: No, begin... don’t accept what I said – then you are merely repeating. So, what is the origin, the beginning of it? Loneliness? Is it? Go on, sir, discuss, move, let’s move together in this.
41:39 Q: It’s a distraction from yourself.
41:45 K: It’s a distraction from yourself, because you are troubled, you are anxious, you are lonely, you are miserable, and by attaching yourself to somebody you may forget yourself. Is that it?
42:03 Q: Isn’t it also that you feel more secure when you have something to hold on to?
42:07 K: That’s right, you feel more secure. Add all this. You are confused, therefore – confused, unhappy, lonely – so you attach yourself. And also in this attachment to somebody, to an idea, to a belief, you have a feeling that you are strong, you are safe, you are secure. Right? I am not telling you, you are finding it out for yourself. Right? And so this attachment acts as a refuge from your own misery. Right? Are you following this? Is that so?
43:03 Q: It only distracts you for a little while.
43:07 K: Yes, yes, but that distraction may go on for the rest of your life – don’t call it a little while.
43:15 Q: Well, all I meant was from a little while your escape into the distraction will then create other distractions.

K: Yes. So if you are not attached to this person, you try it for a while and there is trouble so you move away from that person to another person, from one belief to another belief, from one idea to another. But it is the same movement. Right? Now, why? We have said… we have seen the cause of it. Right? Then what are the consequences of this attachment?
44:08 Q: I lose my inner freedom. But I depend if things go wrong, I feel miserable, I am very much dependent on this outer attachment.
44:21 K: No, what is the consequence? What are the consequences of an attachment to a person, to a belief, to an idea or to a place? Consequence. I am attached to you.
44:38 Q: (Inaudible)

K: Just a minute, let...
44:40 Q: Part of it is that whatever you attach yourself to won’t be there forever. It’s not permanent.
44:45 K: No, just see what happens, sir. I am attached to you.
44:51 Q: You will be scared to lose it. Afraid to lose it.
44:58 K: That’s right. You are afraid to lose it, lose the person. Right? So you are going to lose him. He might look at somebody else and you become jealous. Right? So you know, consciously or unconsciously, that being attached to a person you might lose him or her. You know it inside but you try to smother that and keep on getting stronger and stronger in your possession of the person. Right? Haven’t you noticed it? And that means what? You possess him or her. Right? Follow it, sir. What is the next step?
45:59 Q: Doesn’t that also involve that we try to shape the person according to our own way of thinking?
46:04 K: Yes. Then what? Go on, move.
46:10 Q: And if the person doesn’t conform then we are absolutely in conflict, thinking the problem is the other person and not us.
46:25 K: You are attached to a piece of furniture. Right? I am attached to the furniture I have in my room. So what happens? I am afraid to lose it, I am afraid somebody will spoil it, I am afraid that fire might… so I have to insure it. And gradually what has taken place? I am the furniture. Right? Do you see that? You see that clearly. So if I am attached to you and I am all the time concerned about you – it pleases you that I should be concerned about you. That’s part of the game. And you encourage me to possess you, to be attached to you. So gradually you become me. Right? I wonder if you see this. Haven’t you seen those people who have been married for a very, very long time? Not here – these are the exceptions. They all look alike, almost. So what happens when I am attached to you? I have to protect my attachment. Right? I have to ensure that I can’t lose that person. So I marry that person, or not marry but I feel responsible for that person. Right? You are following all this? So, in protecting that person I must possess him or her, and I must have a guarantee that I cannot lose her or him. So I am always anxious. Right? I am always watching she doesn’t slip away, doesn’t look at somebody else, doesn’t talk to anybody else, doesn’t get more pleasure from somebody else, sexually or in other ways. So I am all the time concerned, watching, nervous, apprehensive. God, what a life! Right? That’s a consequence. Right? Now if you want to be attached and face the consequence, right, go to it, and know what is implied in all that. Which is irrational, not intelligent. Right? So will you then say, I will face my loneliness which made me attach to that person. I will face it. I will look at it. Why am I lonely? Go on, sir, explain to me.
50:26 Q: Lonely merely because loneliness of two people doesn’t seem to...
50:34 K: No, not two people – why are you lonely? What does it mean? Don’t you think about all these things? Is this the first time that you are thinking about these? So does it mean – since you have not thought about these things which are really very important in this community – that it’s not helping you to be intelligent?
51:10 Q: Maybe some people came to Brockwood because they were lonely.
51:15 K: Yes, you may come to Brockwood because you are lonely. You may become a monk because you are lonely. And when you become a monk in the Christian world, Jesus and all that fills you and you are perfectly… carry on. Go on.
51:43 Q: Krishnaji, sometimes I get this loneliness, this feeling of emptiness and it’s very uncomfortable and I don’t know what it is. And so I think me, like many others, we fill it up with various things – food, friends, music, things like that.
51:59 K: So now, as you say, we all feel this. Have you gone into it, say, ‘What is this loneliness?’ – or you just escape from it? You said, ‘I am lonely’. Right? Why? What is the cause of it?
52:31 Q: Well, this emptiness that...
52:33 K: No, what is the cause of it? It must have a beginning. There must be some seed, some action, something that has brought this about.
52:47 Q: A sense of being fragmented and apart from...
52:50 K: No, don’t... go into it little more, step by step.
52:54 Q: Then we face ourselves, even if it is only momentarily.
52:59 K: Yes, sir. She has expressed it. Don’t elaborate that point. She said that she knows sometimes the sense of loneliness, the sense of emptiness, the sense of not being related to anything. Right? Now what is the cause of it?
53:24 Q: It seems that...

K: First of all, just listen carefully. What has a cause – you understand? – can also end. You get the point? Do you understand what I am saying? I wonder if you do. No, you don’t.
53:52 Q: But sometimes I notice when I am just with that loneliness, I stay with it. It eventually goes away if I just stay with it and not try to fight it.

K: Yes, but it comes back.
54:04 Q: Sometimes it will come back, yes.

K: Yes, of course it must. Have you understood what I said, that anything that has a cause must have an end. You people, you are not working. If I have a cause to love you, then that love will end. Right? Because you feed me, you give me sex, you give me comfort – the cause – and therefore it will end. But – this becomes much too serious, I won’t go into it. To live without a cause – that’s a different matter – without a motive, without a direction. I mustn’t get... this gets... Dr Bohm and I can discuss this.
55:17 Q: Are you saying, Krishnaji, that this loneliness has a cause and this cause can be...
55:22 K: Yes, sir.

Q:...can be gotten rid of?
55:24 K: No, I said that – what has a cause must end.
55:29 Q: By eliminating the cause.

K: No. Of course. It isn’t something perpetual, everlasting, timeless and all that.
55:40 Q: So could we ask what is the cause of this loneliness?
55:43 K: So what is the cause of it and why has it come about? Which is the cause? Go on, think it out.
55:54 Q: If one has been living with attachment all one’s life and then for a moment one looks, and if one is not attached for a moment and then suddenly there’s a feeling of, ‘I am not attached’, so it may be a completely new feeling.
56:19 K: Yes. Yes, but you may again change your attachment.
56:32 Q: But if one has always been living with attachment – attachment to one person, to another, to a thing or to an ideal or something – and then one comes to a moment where one is not particularly attached to something, and one comes across this feeling, which is, Well, I am not attached but I have been used to being attached.
56:52 K: Now wait a minute. If you say, ‘I am not attached’, do you understand what it means? When you say, I have been attached to a person, I have been attached to an idea, to a thing, and now I am not attached.
57:17 Q: But Krishnaji, I am sorry but I don’t think that’s quite what he is saying. He is saying that this feeling of loneliness that comes upon us – I think, at least as I understand it – he is saying we don’t see that it is related to our whole way of living.
57:31 K: That’s what I am trying to lead up...
57:32 Q: Building up attachments.
57:33 K: That’s what I am trying to slowly come to. I can’t jump to it because you won’t be able to... Now, what is the cause, what is the beginning of this loneliness?
57:54 Q: Fear.
57:57 K: Fear. Is it? You are not... Go into it, sir, go very carefully into it. The root of it, not just the expression of loneliness, not the consequences of loneliness, but the root of it.
58:26 Q: But I think that, like, when I relate to someone that person is very often concerned with getting something from me, and so am I. And if that person doesn’t get what he wants from me he will disregard me.
58:41 K: Yes, that’s right.

Q: And so I feel lonely.
58:43 K: So if he likes you and you like him, each dependent on each other, we are exploiting each other, aren’t you? And that’s called love. I am not being cynical, I am just stating what it is. Please go into this. It is very important for you to get the root of it.
59:13 Q: It appears to be the remembrance of a past experience.
59:18 K: Go on, sir, go on. That’s not... That’s it partly, but you are not getting to the root of the matter. It’s like if you want to cut down the tree, you uproot it, take the whole thing away, don’t you? So, similarly if you want to understand and be free of this loneliness, you’ve got to go to the root of it.
59:48 Q: Is it our self-centred activity?
59:55 K: Go on.

Q: Or conditioning?
1:00:00 Q: Isn’t it something to do with the whole feeling of being a concrete person, of having a self, that this is the sort of centre from which all the other activities takes place?
1:00:12 K: All right, sir, is that the root of it? If I could get at the root of it, the whole problem is solved, isn’t it? I can cut it down and break it up, dissolve it. But if I don’t know the deep root of it, I can’t. Unless I tackle the tap root of a tree, the tree will go on. So I have got to find it.
1:00:56 Q: Sir, can it be that...

K: Don’t give any casual opinions.
1:01:00 Q: No, this is something I have thought of while people have been talking. The source of the problem could be that we are not one, we are not alone, we are all not a single thing, and the loneliness is this part of our desire to present an individual to the world which would be acceptable. Because we’ve gone away from the fact that we...
1:01:34 K: What fact? That we are all one?
1:01:42 Q: Yes, every...
1:01:43 K: But that is not a fact, that’s an idea.
1:01:48 Q: We are all made of the same material.
1:01:50 K: Yes, of course, we are all… I know, but that’s a verbal statement.
1:02:01 Q: Surely it implies that we are ignorant of ourselves. The fact of loneliness indicates that we are ignorant of ourselves.
1:02:10 K: Which means what, sir? The root of the matter is?

Q: An ignorance of some kind.
1:02:15 K: No, the root of the matter. Each one of us thinks we are individuals, we are separate. Right? No, don’t agree. This is the most... this is something which you won’t tolerate if you really go into it. Because your body, your face, your hair is different from mine – that’s one of the reasons – right? – that you think you are different. One of the reasons, I just said. So the root of it is that each one of us thinks that we are different from anybody else. Which is called individuality, which is separateness. Right? Don’t accept this. Question it, go into it. Because this is the most... if you really see it, it is really revolutionary. It will revolution your life.
1:03:46 Q: I am not sure how it is related to this feeling of loneliness.
1:03:51 K: I’ll show it to you. I’ll show it to you in a minute. You are an individual, aren’t you? You think so. No, don’t shake your head. Be clear. You must have your pleasure you must smoke, you must drink, you must express yourself, you must fulfil yourself – ‘my happiness’. Right? So you and society, religion, says you are a separate person you are entirely different. So your soul is different from my soul. That’s what the Christians believe. So they have emphasised through a million years that you are individual, you are separate from everybody else. So there it begins. You understand? No, you don’t. That is the beginning of this misery. Question me, doubt what I am saying, don’t accept it. Find out if that is the truth or some kind of nonsense.
1:05:41 Q: Well, you seem to be, by saying that, you seem to be implying that we are not separate.
1:05:49 K: No, I don’t.

Q: And that’s very hard to see.
1:05:51 K: That is the cause of this misery.
1:05:57 Q: Yes, but you say that the misery can be eradicated, so therefore the cause too.
1:06:01 K: No, first see whether it is false or true. Not what I indicate. I may be talking nonsense. So you have to find out.
1:06:15 Q: But you say that we think we are individuals. So it’s from the moment we started thinking that we were like that we made the...
1:06:22 K: Yes, that’s the beginning of it.
1:06:25 Q: But if we thought that we were not, there wouldn’t be...
1:06:29 K: No. You find out for yourself whether what we said just now is true or false, for yourself.
1:06:49 Q: It seems quite staggering what you’re saying, in a way, that we have our name and all our ideas and everything associated with that, and to see...
1:06:57 K: Your opinions, your judgements, I must fulfil, I must succeed. And the religions only say, ‘Soul. You are...’ You know all that game, don’t you? What are you talking about?
1:07:14 Q: So when that’s questioned then it may begin to disintegrate.
1:07:18 K: No – is that so?
1:07:24 Q: I think one difficulty, Krishnaji, is that one can see it as a process of history or as a world process, but to actually see that it is oneself is a different story.
1:07:36 K: That’s it, sir. That’s just it, what I am saying. I said just now, if you find the cause, it can... there is an end to it.
1:07:48 Q: Sir, could we go back to loneliness, being faced with the problem of loneliness, and what does one do when one is lonely? All these ideas don’t matter to me if I am lonely. I don’t care if someone says I... What do I do when I am lonely?
1:08:06 K: Find out why.
1:08:13 Q: And how does one approach that?
1:08:14 K: I am doing it, sir. We are doing it now. I am lonely. That means what? Isolated. That means no relationship with another. There is no communication with another, contact with another, completely isolated. Right? Lonely. Now, generally I am frightened of this.
1:08:52 Q: I would do anything to...

K: Wait, sir, wait. I am generally frightened of it so I run away from it – football, church, books, everlasting talking, talking, talking – anything rather than look. Analyse about it – all that is away from this fact. Right? Are you following all this?
1:09:31 Q: There’s a feeling that you don’t want to be with yourself. Right?
1:09:34 K: You are lonely. You never stop there and say, ‘Now, what is the cause of it?’ Because – please, just carefully listen – if you can find the cause, it can end. Right? If they can find out what is the cause of cancer, cancer can end. They have found the cause of tuberculosis and they have invented various drugs – finished. So get the idea first – where there is a cause it can end. You get the point? Now, I am lonely and until I find out the cause of it it can never end. Right? So I say, ‘What is the cause of it?’ Is it my actions? Is it my relationship with others? Is it that I have my opinions, my experience, my remembrances – I cling to all that? You follow what I am saying? Which is, separating myself from everything else. Right? You are following this?
1:11:14 Q: Everything’s ‘my’ in my mind.
1:11:16 K: Yes, me, which is my individual… I am... So, the idea, the feeling, the tradition and the encouragement in schools, colleges, universities, society, everything has said, ‘You. Make a success of your life, become something’. The President of the United States, if you are born there, or if you are born here, Prime Minister, or a big businessman – become something. So all that has encouraged or brought about this sense of the individual must be free to express himself at any price. And that is the cause of it. Right, sir? If you find the cause, then what’s... it’s very simple. Either you hold on to it and say, ‘I don’t mind’, or you say, ‘Well, I must cut it out’. So that means I must watch action that’s not born out of my motive, my pleasure, my fear, my sense of experience. You follow? But you don’t want to do all that – too much trouble. So you say, ‘Well, I’m lonely, I’ll escape from it’. That is what the world is doing. You understand? That is mediocrity. Now, we must stop – a quarter past one. Have you understood this a little bit? That where there is a cause it must end. And if you want to end it, go to the cause of it. I am angry – the cause is what? You follow? I am jealous. The cause of that jealousy is my attachment to you, my possession of you, and I can’t let you escape from me. And you are not a piece of furniture, you are a living thing. So you look at somebody. You take pleasure in being with somebody more than with me, so I get angry, vicious, jealous, hatred. This is the game that human beings for a million years have been playing. So the priests have invented heaven. You can’t have heaven in this world, but when you die somehow you reach that. You know, all that nonsense goes on. Look, it’s very simple: when you have a toothache the dentist finds the cause of it.
1:15:41 Q: Yes, but it’s too easy to find a superficial cause, which is actually caused by something else.
1:15:47 K: So that’s why I said it’s very easy to find some excuse, some superficial reason. But if you say, ‘Look, I want to go to the root of it’. How can a jealous person, angry person, love? You understand? How can a person who is attached to somebody love? I hope I have thrown a bomb – have I? You are young. For God’s sake, be different. Sorry.