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BR81Q2 - 2nd Question & Answer Meeting
Brockwood Park, UK - 3 September 1981
Public Question & Answer 2



1:09 Krishnamurti: I am glad it’s nice weather.
1:17 As we said the other day in answering these questions, there are too many of them. We can’t answer all of them. We have chosen some which I hope will be representative of all the other questions. We can together examine the question, explore as far and as deeply as possible into the question, but there is no end to talking, to answering questions and reading. If we don’t put any of them into action in our daily life, they have very little meaning. It is becoming more and more difficult in a very complex society to live a sane life. By ‘sane’ I mean a life which is whole, healthy, normal, and therefore holy – H-O-L-Y. We have lost all sense of simplicity – not in clothes, I don’t mean that. Simplicity of outlook, simplicity in our life, to be not so terribly self-centred, that is becoming more and more difficult, and it seems rather difficult to live a life that is free from all the cruelties and the bestiality, and the vulgarity of life. During all these meetings that we have had here and all over the world, for the last thirteen or fourteen years there seem to be so few who really apply, who are consistently, continuously applying what we hear to find out what the truth of it is and live it, and not escape into some kind of idiotic, foolish ashramas – the word ‘ashrama’ means in Sanskrit, retreat. It is good to have a retreat but not in a concentration camp, which the gurus are cultivating. So, in answering all these questions, please, we are together examining them, together, we are seeing the whole implication of these questions and see if it is possible to live a life of sanity in this world.
5:10 First Question: We find ourselves living in fear of war, of losing a job, if we have one, in fear of terrorism, of the violence of our children, of being at the mercy of inept politicians. How do we meet life, as it is today?
5:42 We find ourselves living in fear of war, of losing a job, if we have one, in fear of terrorism, of the violence of our children, of being at the mercy of inept politicians. How do we meet life, as it is today?
6:11 How do you meet it? One must take it for granted the world is becoming more and more violent, it is obvious. The threats of war are also very obvious – South Africa, Middle East and so on. And also, it is a very strange phenomenon that our children are becoming violent, too. One remembers a mother coming to see us one year, in India. The mother was horrified because in the Indian tradition mothers are considered with great respect. She came to see us and said, ‘My children have beaten me’ – unheard of in India. You understand? So, this violence is spreading all over the world. And there is the fear of losing a job, as the questioner says. Facing all this, knowing all this, how does one meet life, as it is today?
8:07 I don’t know. One knows for oneself. I know how to meet it for myself but one doesn’t know how you will meet it. First, what is life? What is this thing called existence, full of sorrow, overpopulation, inept politicians, all the trickeries, dishonesty, bribery that’s going on in the world, how does one meet it? One must first, surely, enquire, what does it mean to live? What does it mean to live in this world as it is? How do we live our daily life, actually, not theoretically, not philosophically or idealistically, but actually, how do we live our daily life? If we examine it, or are aware of it seriously, it is a constant battle, constant struggle, effort after effort, even to get up in the morning is an effort. What shall we do? It comes down to that. We cannot possibly escape from it. I used to know several people who said the world is impossible to live in, and they withdrew totally, completely into some Himalayan mountains or into the Sierras of California and disappeared. That’s merely an avoidance, an escape from reality. Or to lose oneself in a commune, or join some guru with vast estates and get lost in it. Those people do not obviously solve the problems of daily life, or enquire into the change, into the psychological revolution of a society. They escape from all this. If we do not escape and are actually living in this world as it is, what shall we do? Can we change our life? Is it possible to have no conflict at all in our life? Because conflict is part of violence. This constant struggle to be something, both in the world, economically, socially, morally and inwardly, to be something is the basis of our life – to struggle, struggle.
12:37 Can we, as human beings living in this world, change ourselves? That is really the question. Radically, psychologically transform ourselves, not eventually, but not admitting time. For a serious man, for a really religious mind, there is no tomorrow. This is rather a hard saying, but there is no tomorrow, there’s only the rich worship of today. Can we live wholly this life? And actually, daily, transform our relationship with each other? That is the real issue. Not what the world is, the world is us. One more and more sees the actual reality that the world is us. Please, this is so. The world is you. You are the world and the world is you. That is an obvious, terrible fact. And if we don’t meet that challenge completely, that is, to realise that we are the world with all its ugliness, we have contributed to all this, we are responsible for all this, what is happening in the Middle East and in Africa all the craziness that’s going on in the world – we’re responsible for it. One may not actually be responsible but our grandfathers, grandmothers and great grandfathers have been responsible for all this – slavery, thousands of wars, Empire, the brutality of empires, of which we are a part. If we don’t feel very responsible for all this, which means utterly responsible for ourselves, what we do, what we think, how we behave, then it becomes rather hopeless, knowing what the world is, knowing that we cannot individually, separately, solve this problem of terrorism, which is the problem of governments, to see that its citizens are safe and protected. They don’t seem to care. If each government was concerned that its own people must be protected, there would be no wars. But apparently, governments have lost sanity, too, they’re only thinking party politics, their own power, position, prestige – you know the whole game of it.
16:58 So, can we, not admitting time, that is tomorrow, the future, live in such a way that today is all important? One has to become so extraordinarily alert to our reactions, to our confusion – you know, work like fury on ourselves. That’s the only thing we can do, apparently. If we don’t do that, there is really no future for man. I don’t know if you have followed some of the headlines in the newspapers, they are all preparing for war. And if you are preparing for something, you’re going to have it – like preparing a good dish. Apparently, the ordinary people in the world don’t seem to care. Those who are intellectually, scientifically involved in the production of war don’t seem to care. They’re only interested in their careers, their jobs, their research. And those of us who are fairly ordinary people, so-called middle class, if we don’t care at all, then we are really throwing up the sponge. And the tragedy is that we don’t seem to care, either. We don’t seem to get together, think together, work together. We are only too willing to join institutions, organisations, hoping organisations, institutions will stop wars, will stop us butchering each other. They have never done it. Institutions, organisations will never stop any of this. It’s the human heart and human mind that is involved in this. Please, we are not talking rhetorically but we are facing something really very, very, very dangerous. We have met some of the prominent people who are involved in all this, they don’t care. But if we care for our life, if our daily life is lived rightly, if each one of us was aware of what we are doing daily, then I think there is some hope for the future.
21:10 Second Question: Is man’s search for something truly religious simply an extension of his eternal acquisitiveness, or is it something entirely different, not a reaction, but a deep, fundamental movement towards an ultimate reality?
21:31 Is man’s search for something truly religious simply an extension of his eternal acquisitiveness, selfishness, or is it something entirely different, not a reaction, but a deep fundamental movement towards an ultimate reality?
22:01 This is a very complex question. Let’s go into it, carefully. Why do we search? Why do we seek something? We are always seeking, why? Is it that we are so utterly discontent, with everything that we touch, see, smell, feel? Is our search is really deeply for satisfaction? We may call it a search for truth – search for God, for happiness, search for this or that, but is it that we are all seeking some kind of deep, abiding contentment, satisfaction, in one form or another? You might call it God, you might call it truth – give it any other name one likes, is it that we want an abiding, lasting, unshakable contentment, some deep security? And is there ultimately security and contentment? What is security?
24:02 Let’s examine, please, together. What is security? We need to have security physically, to have a roof, clothes, food. That is absolutely essential. But in an overpopulated world that is becoming still... that is still lacking. If you go to Eastern countries, Africa or India, or those countries, where fifteen million people are born every year, adding to the population in India – fifteen million people every year! That is, as much as the population of Holland is added every year. Governments are inept to control, birth control and all the rest of it. And also, the problem there is the religious ones. They believe in reincarnation and the souls are waiting to be reborn – you understand? – so give as many births as possible. And those people have no security at all, physically. India has nearly seven hundred million people. There is overpopulation in Europe, too. And we are all seeking security, physically. That too is being denied in affluent societies like Europe and America because they are also preparing for war. They talk about having physical security, some of them, or the majority of them have physical security, but always there is the threat of war that denies physical security. National division prevents security. This tribalism is preventing security.
26:54 Also, we want intellectual or psychological security. Churches throughout the world, the temples, the mosques think they give you psychological security. The book – you know all that. And is there psychological security at all? Please, let’s talk it over, together. One feels one needs psychological security, to depend on something. To possess something that is unbreakable. So, we invent a belief a belief in God, belief in something or other. It’s invented by thought. And we think that invention is necessary to be secure. I am a Christian, I believe in a saviour, I worship, hold on to that. They do the same in India, all over the world with their own particular form of belief and faith. When you look at it closely, intellectually even, and if you look at it much more deeply, it is fear. Fear of not being anything, fear of losing your experiences, your values, all that. And we hold on to something that is illusory. A man, or a woman – when we use the word ‘man’, woman is included. Please, don’t let’s become Women’s Lib and all the rest of it. When man, seeking security, finds some kind of thing, however illusory, however neurotic, he clings to it. And he will fight for it, kill for it, you have seen all this. So, is there any security at all, psychologically? Please, think it over, let’s talk it over, together. I want security, psychologically. I find security in the belief of nationalism, I find security in God. If I don’t find it in God, I find it in some theory, some ideal, or go off abroad, to the Asiatic world, and find something they have thought out for the last 3 or 4,000 years. So, I’m always seeking that security. Intellectually, I see the absurdity of it, the foolishness of it, the illogicality of it, but yet, emotionally I want to have something in me that I can rely on. Is there something?
31:19 There is something only when I realise completely that all the theories, beliefs, dogmas and nationalisms are illusory. The very realisation that they are false is the action of intelligence. To realise something that is illusory, that is false, that has no substance behind it, is the action of intelligence. That intelligence is the total security. I don’t know if… Are we meeting each other? I have accepted, for example, some kind of belief which has given me and my fathers, past generations, a certain security. I realise – their grandson – that what they believed, what they have put upon me is illusory, it has no meaning. That perception itself is intelligence and intelligence is total security. Nobody can destroy that intelligence. That intelligence is common to all of us, it’s not my intelligence, or yours. It is the intelligence of perception. It is the intelligence that says these leaders, inept politicians, the gurus, all that is so nonsensical. The realisation, the perception of that is the abiding intelligence, which is the everlasting security. Do we see that? Not theoretically, not as an ideal but actually. You follow? It gives you an extraordinary sense of independence, a sense of deep freedom, because that intelligence guides. It’s not your will, your opinion, your values, your prejudices, but that intelligence is watching, guiding, helping.
34:29 We must distinguish, I think, between reality and truth. Could we say reality is everything that thought has created? The tent is a reality, it is created by thought. The chair on which one is sitting is created by thought. But the wood is not created by thought. Nature is not created by thought, the tree is not created by thought. Don’t say, ‘Who has created it?’ and go off into something mystical, God and nature, and all the rest of it. We are talking about perceiving the actuality, the reality, which is the actual and truth. So, we are saying all the things that thought has created is reality. Nature is not created by thought. The tiger, if you have ever seen one in the wild, as we have, on several occasions, almost touched it, that is not created by thought, it is much too vast. Thought has created, made the surgeon, communication, the buildings, and all those things that are in the temples. All that is reality. Truth is not put together by thought. Truth is something free of time, thought, and something that is beyond all perception. So, if we are clear on these two matters, reality and truth, then we will never get confused about these terms. And it is only intelligence that can perceive that which is eternally true, not sacrifice, worship, prayer, all that, they’re all done at the instigation of thought, or the invention of thought. But truth demands compassion, love, and with compassion and love goes intelligence. Intelligence is not separate from compassion. Compassion is not separate from love. It’s all one. And without that, truth cannot possibly exist.
38:14 Third Question: What is right action that’ll meet everything in our lives?
38:20 What is right action that will meet everything in our lives? First of all, let’s examine together how we have broken up action. There is the political action, social action, religious action, idealistic action, action based on some experience or theory. Our action is broken up – business action, family action, sectarian action, the local action of the parish, the action of the lobbyists who are interested in their own particular safety, or the safety of a particular investment and so on. They are all broken-up actions. That is a fact, that is a truth. There is also personal action, based on one’s own will, one’s own anxiety, relationship with another. Our existence, our daily life, is totally broken up. I wonder if one is aware of that at all. Or, we just drift from one action to another, go off in the morning at 9 o’clock, to the office, that has a particular action, there. Come back home, that’s another action. I wonder if one is deeply aware of this fact, that our life is broken up, carefully departmentalised, the surgeon, the carpenter, the priest and the politician, and we are the laymen with our own action. So, if one realises that one’s life is actually broken up into various departments of actions, probably contradicting each other, insufficient in themselves from each other, and trying to integrate all of them together, which most of us are trying to do. This integration becomes impossible. You can’t integrate two opposites. Yet, that is what we are trying to do. If one realises, actually perceives, or is aware that one’s life is broken up, then one asks, is there an action which is whole, not broken up? Such action is applicable to everything that you do. I wonder if you are following this? Are we together in this?
42:57 I realise my life – if I do – I realise it is broken up. I know, too, that it cannot be integrated. Integrity is something entirely different. So, I ask myself, is there a life, not superficially but deeply, is there a life that is not broken-up? Is there a life which is not pursuing an ideal, and which means also broken-up. If I am violent and I have the ideal of not being violent, I’ve already broken it up. I don’t know if you follow this. I have already divided my life. I realise the ideal is futile. When I am violent why should I have the ideal of non-violence? I know this is one of the things that has been brought from India, this adoration of non-violence, politically, religiously, and the speaker has discussed this point with the originator in India. It’s so impossible, we’ve talked to people who are deeply rooted in some prejudice. Or they call them idealists. The fact is, any form, any division, any sense of breaking up one’s life will inevitably bring about conflict. That is, if I am violent, I do not need the ideal of non-violence. But I am violent. What is important is to understand that violence, see the cause and perceiving the cause is the ending of the cause. It is like a surgeon sees that I have some disease, he says it must be operated, and it is finished. Similarly, to see that I’m violent, discover the cause, that cause can be eradicated, obviously. But if I pursue the idea of non-violence, I’m moving away from the fact. The ideal is not fact. The opposite is never the fact. What is factual is what is happening, now. If I am violent I face it, look at it, I go into it, I see the cause of it. I see the cause is the thinker who thinks he is violent. I don’t know if you follow all this. No. I’ll have to explain this, a little bit.
46:52 Is violence different from me? Let’s go into it, slowly. We will meet each other. I have this sense of anger – if I have. First of all, let us define what is violence. Violence is anger, hate, anger, imitation, conformity, obeying – all that is part of violence. And I happen to be violent – suppose – and I see the causes of it, by looking at it very carefully. Step by step, I see it. And I do not know how to deal with it, to eradicate the cause, so I invent the non-violence as a lever to get rid of violence. Right? I am escaping from a fact to non-fact. So, I stop that movement, when I realise I am escaping. Then, I see I’m violent. Is violence separate from me? Or I am violent. You follow? Violence is part of me, like anger is part of me, greed is part of me, suffering is part of me, anxiety, pain, depression, loneliness, is me. But thought has separated the me from violence. I don’t know if you realise this. So, I am always acting on violence – suppressing it, rationalising it, finding excuses for it, but when I realise the thinker is the thought, the observer is the observed, then the division comes to an end. Where there is division, there must be conflict. Please follow this, I have totally eliminated conflict. You understand? I am not separate from violence but I have been educated for generations that I am separate. My habit, my conditioning is to fight violence, which is part of violence. I realise the observer is the observed, the experiencer is the experience. I don’t know if you see this. I realise that. So, I have eliminated from my mind the whole idea, concept, habit of conflict. Are you doing this with me? Which is, to remain completely with that word ‘violence’, and the remembrance of past incidents which brought violence, the word is the remembrance, the picture, and that picture, that symbol, that word, is me. Right? Please, this is logical, sane. Look at it. It’s me. And so, I stop, the mind stops acting, but remains with it, doesn’t escape from it. When you remain with something entirely, completely with all your attention, the thing disappears, completely. So, one eliminates altogether violence. But if you pursue non-violence, you will never end it because in the pursuit you are sowing violence, all the time. I wonder if you understand.
52:30 So, the questioner asks, what is right action? We said there is right action only when we see that we are broken up, our life is broken up, and from that awareness, one asks the question, is there a life which is not broken up. Living in this modern world, can I live without different, contradictory actions? Which is, going to the office, coming home, being a surgeon, coming home, a scientist, coming home – all broken up. And the result of this contradictory, broken up life will inevitably bring violence, strain, heart failure – the whole circus.
53:52 So, we are asking, is there a life which is whole? Not what is right action, but can one live a holistic life? That is, when I go to the office I am always the same – you understand? When I come home I am what I am. I may be a good carpenter, a plumber, a technician, but I’m living a life which is whole. Do we understand each other? When there is that wholeness of life, that itself is right action. Do whatever you do, out of that is right action. There is no right action, per se, but there is right action when I realise the broken up, contradictory life, with all its complications, that very realisation brings about a perception of the whole. Is this happening with you now? For God’s sake! That is why, sirs, you may listen to the speaker for the next hundred years, but if one doesn’t actually realise as we are sitting here, together, the action of intelligence is holistic. And that intelligence cannot be cultivated. It isn’t a thing you go to school and learn to be intelligent, become sensitive by going to college and being told how to be sensitive. But if one sees the actuality, without any desire to alter it and fuss around with it, if one sees actually what is happening that very perception is intelligence. Out of that, that intelligence is always right action.
56:55 Fourth Question: What is the right relationship to money?
57:06 If you haven’t any, you have no relationship! Like the speaker, it is very simple! But to be serious, what is right relationship to money? Why has money become so important? Just let’s enquire into it. We are not the Delphic Oracle, or laying down the law, or telling you what you should think or do, but we are trying together to understand the problems of life, which are very complex, which need deep examination, impersonally, objectively, sanely. So, this is one of the problems, money. Why has money become so important? Is it because we have become worldly? ‘Worldly’, I’m using in the sense, attached to the things that thought has put together. That’s the first question I am asking. It is a complex question, we’ll go into it.
58:46 Is it because money gives us freedom? You can travel, if you have lots of money, you can become powerful, become Lord this and that. If you have money, you have a status, you’re respected, you are looked up to. This is happening. If you have money, you can do almost anything – go against all the laws. You see this every day. Money isn’t supposed to be transferred from one country to another but if you are wealthy, you have a secret account in Switzerland – you know all this – or transfer great wealth to America and so on. And if you have money, you can enjoy yourself. Money has become extraordinarily valuable, in all those senses.
1:00:22 And without money, you can’t do much, either. If you want some clothes and so on, you must have some money. But the question is, really, why has money in our life, apart from buying necessary things or having something which is pleasant, a nice picture, or a nice vase, or some beautiful ornament, apart from all that – or a beautiful garden, if you are lucky – apart from that, why do we lay such emphasis on money? You answer it, please.
1:01:36 I do not know if you realise what religions have become, organised religions, vast wealth, they are really business organisations in the name of God. This vast wealth of the gurus, incredible wealth, which all of us – or some of us have given to these gentlemen. And so, money has become important. When you go to the temples and so on, there is always money being asked. Are we so occupied with money? Naturally, the poor man who has no money is thinking about it. But those of us who have a little money, are we occupied with it? Is our main concern or occupation money?
1:03:07 That awakens another question, why are our minds perpetually occupied? – occupied with something or other. When you are talking about meditation, then you are occupied with it – God – you follow? Everyone, from the housewife to the highest religious authorities, is occupied – why? You understand my question? This is not an irrelevant question, it is relevant because our occupation with money or with sex, with this or with that, indicates the state of our own minds, our own hearts. To be occupied with something. Does it mean that this occupation with business, with money, with sex, with God, with the guru, with the politician and so on, so on, keeps our brain full? You understand my question? Is it that we are afraid not to be occupied? Please, look at it. Look at ourselves, which is, am I occupied from morning till night and when I go to sleep, the brain is also occupied, with dreams, with all kinds of sensations. So, there is never a moment when the brain is not occupied. Is that so? When the brain is so occupied, there is no space – you understand? – and so the brain becomes more and more shallow. You can see this happening. Is it because we are frightened of not being occupied, therefore, having no space, the brain having no rest at all, therefore, it wears itself out. Right? The wearing itself out is a part of senility. Right? So, is there a possibility of not being occupied? Merely to look, to observe, not be occupied with observation. Just to look, to observe so that the brain has a rest, not to record because our brain is all the time recording. I don’t know if this interests you. Then your brain becomes extraordinarily alive, pliable.
1:07:29 Have you ever observed without a single thought? to observe a tree, to observe the light on a sheet of water, to observe a woman or a man, without all the consequences of that observation, the sensations, so that your mind is really free from occupation. How can a brain that’s occupied ever observe? You understand my question? How can a brain that is always occupied with something casual, daydreaming, with the kitchen or with God, all occupations are the same, there are not superior occupations or inferior occupations, we are talking about occupation, per se. Such a mind is really the most bourgeois mind in the world, including the Communists. Is chattering part of this occupation? – talking, talking, talking, endlessly. Now, are we aware of this occupation, and experimenting with ourselves to see if it stops? Then to find out whether there is fear and pursue that fear – you follow? Go to the very end of it and end it, as we’ve talked about it at previous talks. Then see what happens to this brain which has space, which has quietness, which is not occupied. If you say, ‘How am I to do it? Tell me the steps, the method, how not to be occupied’, those steps, those methods become your occupation, you are back in the cycle. But if you see the consequences of occupation, and see the fact of it, you move away from it. So, if one is occupied with money, why? Either you are poor, which is natural, then you have to be concerned, but even if you’re poor to be occupied eternally from morning till night, and the man who is very rich is also terribly occupied, how to keep the money, increase it – you know the whole business.
1:11:26 The real question is, can the mind be free from all occupation? If I may repeat some incident, we were in the Himalayas once, far away from all noise, in a cottage, and a group of sannyasis came rushing into the cottage to tell me something. They knew the person who was occupying it. They came to see me and they said, ‘We have just come from a man who is far away in the hills, who is full of knowledge. We have just come and we are filled with that knowledge’. We said ‘What is that knowledge?’ And we went into it. At the end of it, we discovered the solitary person living in the Himalayas was really not solitary at all. He has carried all the world’s knowledge up there and so he’s never alone, never quiet. He’s full of that knowledge and can therefore perhaps can never experience something totally original. A mind which is occupied can never experience something original. It’s only the mind that’s free, if I can use the word, empty.
1:13:17 We were talking with a scientist, some days ago. We were saying that emptiness is very important in life, not vacuum, not being just vague and daydreaming but really a mind that is not occupied has space and is totally empty. We were saying that such a mind is full of energy. The scientist agreed. He said ‘Where there is emptiness, it’s not empty, that very emptiness is energy’. I’m telling you something. So, let us think about it, you know, look at it.
1:14:20 I’m afraid this has to be the last question.
1:14:24 Fifth Question: You say liberation is not an individual matter but concerns humanity as a whole. Yet liberating insight has been the unique achievement of individuals like the Buddha and the Christ, and perhaps, yourself. How can it be a matter of the whole of humanity?
1:14:49 You say liberation is not an individual matter but concerns humanity as a whole. Yet liberating insight has been the unique achievement of individuals like the Buddha, the Christ, and perhaps yourself. How can it be a matter of the whole of humanity?
1:15:12 The question is clear, isn’t it? First of all, let’s leave the Buddha, Christ and the speaker alone, they are not important because they’ve so many... You know what disciples are? Disciples destroy the teacher, they invent a lot of theories, a lot of nonsense, write about it, they are the interpreters, and when there are interpreters you know what takes place. So, let’s look at the question, very carefully, if we can liberate ourselves from these figures.
1:16:26 Is insight, the liberating factor, is it an achievement? First. Is it only granted, or given to the few? Is it something that demands an utterly unselfish life? Is it something that is not personal? To go into this, one must go still further, which is, the world is me and I am the world. That is a fact to the speaker. The speaker is not separate from the world, and the world is not different from him. We have gone into this, fairly sufficiently. Human consciousness, with all its content, which is belief, experience, knowledge, memory, fear, pleasure, suffering, pain, anxiety, loneliness, despair and all the pain of the world is common to all mankind. This is so. It is common to all of us, whether we live a million miles away or very close. So, we are the world, psychologically, and you are the world. Now, is liberation, illumination or that enlightenment, only reserved for the extraordinary few? Or, if you had that tremendous insight into the wholeness of life, your consciousness is totally different. Right? Naturally, because that liberating insight frees you from all the content of that consciousness – pain, anxiety, loneliness, sorrow, depression, all that is wiped out. It’s a fact, if you do it, and it can be done. It’s not reserved for the few. But we human beings are not persistently, continuously applying, we are slack. We do this one day, we’re weary of it the next day, and we go off. The ball is never in our court, it’s always in other people’s court. So, if we are capable of maintaining, not by will but by perception, by seeing the fact, and remaining with the fact, without any movement away from the fact, then the fact undergoes a radical change. You can see this if you do it. If I remain completely with violence, that is, not try to do something about it because I am violence, then the attention you give to that factor of sensation called ‘violence’, when there is this light of attention on it, it disappears, completely, forever. If you do it, you will discover that for yourself.
1:21:24 If you, as a human being, recognises that you are the entire humanity, psychologically, the entire humanity, and therefore, you are extraordinarily responsible, without any feeling of guilt, then your consciousness undergoes a change – obviously. That is the liberating factor of insight. If you have that liberating factor of insight and you have transformed your consciousness, you are bringing a factor of something new into the whole consciousness of humanity. You understand? I don’t know if you have followed a recent experiment which has been written about – I don’t want to go into all this. I have started, so I must finish it. They had put some rats in a tank of water and there were two outlets. One a dark one, and one with a light. When the rat climbed up the ramp and went to the light which he thinks he can escape through, it gets a shock, so it comes down and goes to the other, which is dark. Then it escapes. Generally, the father or mother rat takes time to discover this. Then, its children learn much quicker. Please, it’s not genetic. They learn much quicker. And so, without taking many experiments, after a few experiments, they go off through the dark and escape. They were doing this in England, in Australia and perhaps, in America, totally different, not communicating with each other. And the rats in Australia – please, listen to this – discovered much quicker the dark way of escaping, not through light. You understand this? I’m not going to explain if you don’t. It’s very simple. Without genetics entering into it, the rats in England took time to learn and the grandchildren or great great grandchildren learnt much quicker. Two attempts and dark, out. The same thing happened in Australia. The doctors were not communicating with each other. So, they have discovered there is a group consciousness, as well as chemically, it is so. You understand? This group consciousness – oh, I am tired! – exists and therefore, when there is one rat who learns much quicker, that quickness is transformed, given to the whole consciousness. So, if we – you can understand from that. You get it? We have been talking about this for years, only the rats have illuminated this, our minds! Very interesting. Look how we are operating ourselves. We don’t see something true, immediately. It takes time. Then we learn and genetically transform – oh, I won’t go into it.
1:26:26 So, we are saying, if you transform yourself through the liberation of insight, you are communicating to the whole consciousness of man. You understand? This is happening, like the great rulers of the world, or the great killers of the world, have affected the human mind. Right? Attila, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Napoleon, on the other side Buddha and so on, they have all affected the human mind, human consciousness. But if we actually, daily live this intelligence, the insight which liberates, then you are bringing to the whole of the consciousness of man a totally different air, different value, different movement, which is not based on knowledge, but on insight and intelligence.
1:27:46 Sorry we have taken an hour and a half. We will meet on Saturday. May I get up, please?