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BR83DSS1.2 - What will you do to have peace in the world?
Brockwood Park, UK - 5 June 1983
Discussion with Staff and Students 1.2



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s second discussion with the teachers and students at Brockwood Park, 1983.
0:11 Krishnamurti: May I first talk for a while and then we can discuss. I really mean discuss. That is, criticize what I’ve said, don’t accept what I’ve said; I’m not trying to convince you of anything, or don’t think I’m taking you in. So I’m going to talk, if I may, first, and then we’ll go into it very carefully. I would like to talk about peace, whether it’s possible to live in this world peacefully, amongst all people, to stop all wars, killing each other by word, by a gesture, by an attitude, by aggression or through the atomic war which will destroy all humanity. Man, right through the ages wanted peace, to live at peace, in himself and in the world, and that has not been possible. Historically, there have been wars for the last five thousand years. That means practically a war every year all over the world. And man has lived in conflict, struggle between... in himself and with the world, with society. Those who oppress and those who are oppressed; those have brought about, those who are oppressed, revolution, and when they come to the top they oppress the others. This has been going on for thousands of years. Probably you all know this, historically, if you study history; not that I have but I’ve observed a great deal. So could we, this morning, together, I mean together, look at the world, what is happening. Not that I’m persuading you to look at it from my point of view or from my prejudiced point of view, or if I’m conditioned from my conditioned point of view, but together observe. You observe without any prejudice on your part; you observe without any bias. Together let’s observe what is happening in the world. All right? Are you prepared for this? Do you want to do this, or...? Let’s look at it. I’m not criticising it. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but just observe it. First of all, the world is divided into nationalities - the Japanese, the Chinese, the Hindus, the eastern Mediterranean people, the western Europe and America - they are all divided nationally, economically, socially, culturally, perhaps, in some degree, ethically. They are all divided. Why have there been this division? Why? You understand my question? You are an American and if somebody born in India, they call themselves Indian. They worship different flags, different governments, different economic conditions, social conditions – right? – divide, divide, divide. Why? Why have human beings divided the world this way? The Arabs and the Jews, the Muslim and the Hindu, the Catholic and the Protestant - right? - why? Why have human beings divided the world in this way? We are thinking together; I’m not trying to persuade you; I’m not trying to get at you. Why human beings, who have lived on this earth for thousands of years, why have they done this?
6:35 Questioner: May I say something?
6:38 K: Wait, sir. Let me go on and then you can come to it.
6:43 Q: Oh, I thought you were asking.
6:44 K: I’m not trying to prevent you. Hold on to your question, we’ll come to it at the end. I want to go through the end of it and then we can talk. Find out why human beings throughout the world have done this – the French, the Germans, the Italians, the... all that, Catholics, Protestants, the Jew, the Arab - why? Is it because in division they thought they would have security? They have security in the family - right? - my family, I feel secure. Extend that widely: in nationalism I feel secure. If I say I’m an American, a British, in identifying myself with the larger – right? – before I identified myself with the family and I felt safe there. That family is also threatened - right? - so I identify myself with a larger group, the nation - right? – I’m a British. If you don’t want to be British, I’m a Frenchman. If you don’t want to be a Frenchman, you are German or an American or Chinese, Japanese, Russian. Is that the reason, one of the reasons, that in tribalism there is certain sense of security, safety? In isolation there is no safety. Right? If I am seeking safety for myself I can’t have it, so I want safety, protection, feel safe, and I extend this to a nation, to a race: I’m a Jew - right? - I belong to the Jewish clan or the Arab group and so on. Right? Is there security in division? You understand my question? Do you understand my question?
10:09 Q: Mmhm.
10:10 K: I have… the world has been divided into nationalities and in this division there is… one hopes to have security. And now there is no security even in division. Right? From Moscow an aeroplane can fly two or three thousand miles and drop a bomb in New York. So when we... where we thought there would be security in division, now we are finding there is no security in division at all. I may call myself a Jew, belong to Israel and I’m threatened by all the people around me. Right? Right? So I’m asking you, if you will kindly listen, is there security in division? Be sure of it, not... I’m not telling you, I’m asking you; I’m not trying to convince you of it. Right? Is there security economically if there is division? Britain is concerned about itself. Right? Every evening you hear on the television: Britain, Britain, Britain - her economic problems, her social problems, and France is doing exactly the same thing. Israel far away is doing the same thing; Russia, India, Japan, China. You follow? So do you find there is security, which means peace, in this process? Right? I’m not convincing you; just watch it. And man wants peace, except those who are neurotic, those who are obstinate, those who are absolutely convinced through murder, terror there will be peace. You follow? So are you clear on this one point: To have peace, there must be no division? Right? If I call myself a Hindu, that’s a very limited way of thinking, isn’t it? If I call myself a Jew or an Arab, that is very, very limited. And that’s what we have done. So in limitation there is no peace. So, knowing all this, that the world has been divided by human beings into nationalities, which is glorified tribalism – right? – economically, socially and so on, and in this division man hope to have some kind of safety, protection, a way... some kind of peace, and that is denied. Right? So what is the answer to this, both psychologically and outwardly? Politicians cannot solve this problem – right? – because they’re always thinking in terms of division: Britain first - right? – so... nor the economists because they are thinking in terms of the economy of a certain country; nor the priests, the bishops, the Popes – right? – because they are limited; they think in terms of only Catholicism and Protestantism with their enormous divisions. So what then? You understand my question? Neither the politicians - certainly not the politicians - nor the specialised economists – right? – nor the priests, especially in this... some of the countries, the government is part of... appoints them and so on. Right? So what is one to do? What are you… that’s your future. You may not like to listen to all this; you may have... be convinced of your own opinions, judgements; you might say, ‘I belong to this country, and it’s good enough for me,’ but if you begin to observe, think, look, what’s your answer? Because we must have peace – you understand? – otherwise you can’t... even in the garden it must have some peace, to grow flowers, to grow vegetables and so on. Apparently, we can’t have peace in the way we are living now. Right? Right, sir? So what is one to do? What are you are going to do? That’s your future. We are the past generation, we are going; you are coming. If you see clearly this way of living will not bring about peace, very clearly for yourself, see, that in this division there can never be peace in the world. Right? If I cling to my god as a Hindu - you follow? – that’s a division from the other gods. Gods are anyhow invented by thought. That’s another matter. So what is one to… what is one’s feeling about all this? Peace is a very complex affair. In oneself one has very little peace - right? - one is always in conflict, wanting something or other. Ambition doesn’t give us peace either. Individual expression: I want to do what I want to do - right? - what I think I want to do I’m going to do. That’s again a very limited way of looking. ‘I will do my thing’ - that’s what every human being is saying in the world. ‘Leave me alone, don’t oppress me, don’t try to control me, suppress me, because I want to do what I like to do’ - so-called individual freedom. Follow all this, please. This is what’s happening in the world: individual freedom, national freedom, economic freedom. You follow? So we are not only man against man, but also in ourselves we are against ourselves. I want to do this and I cannot do it, or I want to do this and you are preventing me from doing it, so I’m against you. I want to express my feelings as immediately as possible, and your rules, restrictions and so on, so I’m against you. Please watch all this for your own sake. So what is the… what are we going to do? So can we first of all have peace in ourselves, which means no contradiction in ourselves? It’s very complex problem, don’t easily say, ‘Yes, yes’ - tremendously complex. Not to have a contradiction, an opposite – you understand? – a duality. I want this and society, the politicians, the priests, my father, my mother, the educator prevent me, so I am against them all. It becomes rather silly. So seeing all this, observing it without any bias - not from an American point of view or British point of view or the Argentine point of view, or the alliance, conservative and so on - just looking at this extraordinary phenomenon that man has brought about: wanting peace and doing everything to deny it. So, first, can you have peace in yourself? Don’t be bored by this, please. Right? Don’t be bored. If you are bored, get up and go. Nobody is preventing you or any… to listen to what is being said. If you don’t want to listen it’s all right; you’re not hurting me. But you have got to face this, as a human being; you may be twenty, fifteen, eighteen, twenty-two, your life is quite young and you have to face this. Demonstrations, whether Germany, America or here is not going to solve the problem either. Right? Shouting won’t solve the problem. Throwing bombs at each other is not going to solve the problem. So can I, can we, each one of us begin in ourselves to find out if you can have peace, because it’s only then you flower, you grow; not in obstinacy. One must have freedom but freedom isn’t to do what you want to do. If you are free and you want… you say, ‘I’m going to do what I want to do,’ the other fellow is saying exactly the same thing. So multiply that by the billion and see what is happening: complete chaos in the world, isn’t it? Right? So, come back. Can I and you have peace inwardly, which means no conflict, no struggle: ‘I want to be this’ - you understand? – ‘I must achieve; I must become a great success,’ and as the politicians, the economists, the priests cannot possibly solve this problem, because they’re all are thinking in terms of their own particular class or group, can you and I, looking at all this, change ourselves and say, ‘We must have a global outlook, an outlook that concerns the whole of humanity, not American humanity or the British humanity’? You understand my question? Can you have that kind of outlook on life? Can you? Not just this morning or… (laughs) for the rest of your life. Every year, thirteen to fifteen million people are added to India, every year - overpopulation. China has over a billion people and India is nearly coming up to that. Tremendous poverty, in Africa and in India, and the affluent societies - America, affluent, fairly well to do, like Britain, though there are over… nearly four million people unemployed here. When there is poverty in some part of the world, the rest of the world is not going to have peace. Right? If I am poor and you are rich, well to do, I’m going to do something - revolt, burn. But in India they’re not doing that, as yet, because they are ill fed, no energy, their religion says, ‘Accept things as they are, that’s part of your religion,’ so they put up with things. So face all this. So can you have a global outlook? Please, this is a very serious question. You may not want to listen to it; you say, ‘This is too boring, this is too enormous or too complex; I have my own little problems, first I must solve them.’ Your little problems are related to the world problems – you understand? – they are not separate. Right? If you are violent - violence again is a very complex thing - if you are violent, you are the world and you are like rest of the world, violent – you understand? – naturally. So can you have an outlook that includes all humanity - the black, the white, the purple, the yellow, the brown and the pale brown (laughs). Right? We belong to that, don’t we? (Laughs) Can you cultivate or immediately grasp this outlook, this value of the rest of humanity? You are the rest of humanity. Right? It cannot be taught - right? - you can’t say, ‘I’m going to learn about it from a book or from somebody’; you have to have this feeling about it. If you are... say for instance, you go out for a walk and look at those marvellous trees and if you have no feeling for the trees, you can’t be taught to have feelings about the trees - right? - you have to feel it, you have to be sensitive. You can’t be sensitive if you are immersed, concerned with your own beastly little self. Sorry to use ‘beastly.’ So as one cannot be taught to have a global outlook and the feeling of that and the responsibility of that, either you have to look at this very, very, very carefully, sensitively, tenderly – I’m using ordinary rational words - or you grasp immediately the feeling of it, therefore you don’t belong to any country, to any culture, to any religion. That’s real freedom if you know that, not the silly thing that we call freedom. And also do you realise that what you have, your problems, your feelings, your desires, is exactly the same, similar to the Indian who lives far away? He is like you, ambitious, greedy, envious, obstinate, sticking to his own opinions and so on, just like the rest. So you are like the rest of humanity. Please see this. When you feel that, you lose all sense of pride, vanity. We’ll continue this next meeting if you want to, so questions, discussion; come on, sir. You discuss among yourselves, don’t you? Forget that there are a lot of us here, so you and I, can we discuss? First of all, do you see what I’ve said to be true or false? Please, would you kindly answer this?
37:15 Q: It seems to be…
37:16 K: What do you say?
37:19 Q: True.
37:20 K: True? Why?
37:22 Q: Because from my experience, that’s what I think of it as well.
37:23 K: So what you are going to do about it?
37:30 Q: I don’t know.
37:31 K: If it is true, then why stick to the false?
37:35 Q: Because it’s easy.
37:37 K: Beg your pardon?
37:39 Q: It’s easier.
37:41 K: It’s easier to stick to the false, is it, which brings about destruction of man, violence.
37:49 Q: In the short term.
37:51 K: They are going to kill you - you understand? - not… Face that fact, they are going to kill you. If you realise people are going to kill you, then you do something about it. You don’t say, ‘Well, it is so, what am I to do?’ You see, you don’t discuss. Come on, sirs.
38:21 Q: Excuse me. How do we achieve this world peace and do we create a world government or…?
38:30 K: I’m not talking world government. I’m talking you and I having first this global feeling. More… the more of us who feel global, then we’ll create a government, but if we don’t feel it and say, ‘We must have a government, a world government’, it’s nonsense. They’ll be as crooked as the present ones. Right, sir? You were going to discuss; what were you are going to ask, related to what we are talking, not something else?
39:27 Q: Well, I don’t see the problem on the same scale as you do. I don’t see a necessity for the change.
39:39 K: Oh, you don’t see the necessity for change. Why?
39:45 Q: Sure I see some…
39:47 K: Just be simple about it. Let’s discuss it. You understand? I’m not criticizing you. I say, why... you see this is happening. Right? You agree?
39:57 Q: Yes.
39:58 K: The chaos that’s going on in the world. The governments can’t solve the economic problems - right? - they cannot stop wars. At present, there is no war in Britain – right? – or France, but there are wars going on all over the world. It’s no good saying, ‘It’s far away; it doesn’t touch me.’ I don’t know if you heard last night or other night, Britain, Germany, France are supplying armaments, different kinds of armaments to Argentine. Lovely, isn’t it? They have... neither England nor Argentine have declared end of war, and yet England is supplying armaments to Argentine. Yes. So what do...?
41:02 Q: Well, I hear about it. I read about it in news magazines…
41:04 K: Of course.
41:05 Q: ...but...
41:06 K: Of course, everybody does.
41:09 Q: …but still it doesn’t have an impact on me.
41:17 K: No. No. Why should... because none of us want to change. I’m not talking of ‘grand change’ - that’s perhaps not possible. I’m talking... we’re asking each other, let’s change about small things, for God’s sake. Let’s change about small things, little things first. It is very small thing, this, not to belong to any tribe. Is that very complex?
42:08 Q: It seems that way.
42:11 K: Ah?
42:12 Q: It seems that way, at least for me.
42:17 K: Why? For most people it is, sir. Why? One has talked in India about all this. They say, ‘Please, it’s too difficult.’ Why? If you want to do something, you do, don’t you? So do you see that it’s important that one has to do this? Like having a bath, cleaning your teeth and all the rest of it, it has to be done. And if we don’t do it while you are young, who is going to do it?
43:04 Q: Well, that would require a tremendous amount of energy, would it not?
43:16 K: Would it? Just looking at this confusion and say, ‘For God’s sake, I can’t...’ In myself I won’t be confused and try to change myself? Energy is required just to observe first. Right?
43:33 Q: Yes.
43:35 K: And the more you observe, the greater energy you have. But if you put on blinkers and say, ‘I’ve no energy,’ then you... You understand? I’m not criticizing you, sir, I’m just pointing out.
43:49 Brian Jenkins: But, Krishnaji, I think many people have a problem with… you said not to belong to a tribe, just now, but I think people have a problem with that because they think, ‘Well, I know I belong to group’, and therefore if you ask me not to belong to that group then I have no friends.
44:24 K: I have to have?
44:26 BJ: If I don’t belong to that group then I have no friends.
44:33 K: All right, don’t have friends (laughs). What does friendship mean? Let’s take that, for example. What does friendship… what does a friend mean? You tell me, what does a friend mean? I am your friend. I want to talk to you about myself. I want to communicate with you what I think, what I feel, what my problems are. That means I’ve established in this friendship a communication in which there is no barrier, up to a certain point. Right? I want to talk to you about many, many things. I can’t if you are not my friend. If you say, ‘Oh, my dear chap, it’s not my affair; buzz off.’ (Laughter)
45:43 Q: Then we’re no longer friends.
45:46 K: I’m not your friend, but if you say... if I say to you, ‘Look, we are friends; I feel this way. My wife and I quarrel, or I beat my wife or the wife beats me; I feel the country is going to the dogs’ - you follow? - or ‘This is rubbish, religion has no meaning anymore.’ I want to talk to you. I want... somebody I have to talk to, if I want to. But a friend comes... a friend is a real person with whom I can communicate easily, freely, happily. Right? Have you such friends?
46:28 Q: Ah.
46:29 K: (Laughs) Have you?
46:30 Q: Yes.
46:31 Q: Yes.
46:33 K: Ah?
46:35 Q: Yes.
46:38 K: Do you communicate?
46:41 Q: Yes.
46:44 K: Easily?
46:47 Q: I think what we call a friend is somebody… if you talk to that person you don’t have to question a lot of things of yourself. You can kind of assume that…
47:12 K: Yes. Do you assume… have you such friends?
47:18 Q: Yes.
47:20 K: Do you communicate easily?
47:23 Q: Yes, but, you know, what I want to say is with those friends you can talk about a lot of things but you cannot question also a lot of things, like we both think it is good to do a certain thing and you don’t question that with that friend, but…
47:36 K: Yes, sir, I understand that.
47:37 Q: …you can talk about all the other things.
47:39 K: Yes, but that means, doesn’t it, that you have established a communication line. Right?
47:51 Q: Yes.
47:52 K: Right? You have a friend with whom you can communicate. That means you are open, there is a… a two-way communication - right? - which means you are open to that man or that woman to freely exchange; that... find out a brain that’s not clogged, that’s not frightened to communicate with another. Right? Right? I’m not leading you up to somewhere.
48:39 Q: No, sorry, I didn’t understand the last part.
48:45 K: You are my friend. I want to talk to you about a great many things about myself, so I have established a line of communication – right? – which means I’m capable of communicating; so if I am capable of communicating with you, perhaps I may be able to communicate with others. You understand? I don’t say you are the only person I can communicate with. I can communicate with her, because I’m quite open about it; I can talk to her if she will listen about myself, but she won’t generally because she says, ‘I don’t know you, buzz off... (inaudible)’. But I’m open to communication – you understand? – which is far more important than saying, ‘I can only communicate with you and nobody else.’ I wonder if you get what I’m talking about. Here is a problem - a question, not a problem - here is something that is... that you must answer, not just keep quiet: What are you going to do about this, about having peace in the world? Having peace first in yourself; which means - please understand the complications of it - not to be influenced by others; and you are already influenced. Don’t feel that you’re not influenced. Your parents have influenced you by their talk; your... other children have influenced you; the books that you read have influenced you - right? - everything around you is influencing you, pressurizing you. You’re already pressurized. Yes, lady. You’re already conditioned. Don’t say, ‘You are conditioned.’ You come here, you are conditioned, whether you like it or not, and as long as you are conditioned you’re going to be conditioned much more. So don’t blame the others. So your question then is: Is it possible not to be conditioned? Is it possible to live without pressure, without impressions, without people doing propaganda, throwing things down your throat? Yes, sir. Right?
52:41 Q: Well, if we who are conditioned - no - we are conditioned, yes…
52:51 K: Yes, sir. Admit that first.
52:54 Q: Yes.
52:55 K: Of course.
52:56 Q: Well, how are we to look into the question?
52:59 K: I will show it to you a minute. First, realise or be aware that you are already conditioned.
53:05 Q: But how can you say… how can you see you are conditioned, because…?
53:13 K: If you say, ‘I’m an American,’ you are conditioned.
53:20 Q: Yes, but if you think America is the only thing in the world…
53:24 K: No, I’m just saying that, sir, America. If you say, ‘I’m a Swede, I’m a German, I’m a Catholic, I’m a Protestant, I believe in Marx.’ Right?
53:34 Q: Yes, but when you think… when you really think Marx is the only right thing…
53:45 K: Wait a minute - why? They’ve all said that. Islam... the Muslims say the Quran is the only right thing.
53:50 Q: Yes.
53:52 K: Right? So, you believe in Marxism and say that’s the only right thing, and I read Quran - you know what… the Islamic holy book, like the Bible - I believe in that. I am absolutely convinced; what that book says I will carry out. How are you and I going to meet?
54:19 Q: Well, I think at the moment we really look at each other, you can see, hey, that person believes something else than I do, and then you see you are conditioned.
54:32 K: So are you that way? When you believe in something and I believe in something, we are conditioned.
54:38 Q: Yes.
54:39 K: That’s all.
54:40 Q: Yes, but, I think the problem is that… I think at the moment you are really very conditioned, you think, oh, that person is talking about the Quran… (inaudible).
54:52 K: (Laughs) of course; of course. That means one is never aware of one’s own conditioning.
54:59 Q: Yes.
55:00 K: Yes. Are you now beginning to be aware of your own condition?
55:08 Q: I hope so. I don’t know.
55:14 K: Of course, sir. So, you… we come… you come here conditioned. There is no question about this. You may not like to see that you… think that you are not conditioned, but you are. The language you use conditions you to a certain degree. I won’t go into whether language conditions the brain at all. I question it, but it doesn’t matter. Whether climate, food, clothes, the newspapers that you read, the magazines, one says one thing, the other says another; one is absolutely, logically right and other is also right. Marxists say, ‘This is only way’, and Marxism has not solve the Russian problem. The Quran, the Islam, the Muslim, he believes in it tremendously; he’ll burn you, he’ll kill you. So they are two people absolutely convinced. They won’t even talk to each other – right? – but they are ready to kill each other. So, seeing that, I see for myself it’s no good sticking to one... any kind of belief. I’ll examine, explore, look, watch - you follow? - but I won’t come to any conclusion and hold on to that. Right? That’s logical, that’s sane. But if you say, ‘No, sorry, I prefer Marx,’ and, you know, there’s the end of it. I have talked to a great many Muslims and also to Catholics. They go up to a certain point; beyond that they shut the door and you can’t communicate. But if you and I say, ‘Look, let’s talk about it,’ already we have established a friendship. I’m not trying to convince you, you’re not trying to impress me; we’re both talking about life. Sir, let’s discuss. You’ve stopped.
58:39 Q: Going back to the peace question...
58:48 K: Beg your pardon?
58:53 Q: Going back to the peace subject that we were talking about; I feel that probably everybody in room would agree that everybody wants peace but... and probably, for example, wouldn’t have any antagonism against a Russian or a Hindu or a Muslim but most of them feel that events are above their head; actually as an individual, you say it’s no good demonstrating and things; I mean, I think most people feel what on earth can they do and there’s actually very little they can do as an individual that would help world peace.
59:26 K: What can I do? As a human being who sees that any form of division is going to breed war. Right? If you and I see that very clearly – right? – I won’t belong to any division. There is a positive act... people may kill me, people may boycott me, I may not be welcome in the club or I may not be welcomed to this group or that group, all right, I don’t mind. This is so. But very few of us see things so clearly; and we don’t want to see things clearly because we are rather gregarious, we want to belong to a group. (Pause) Well, sir?
1:01:07 Q: I have something to say that I think is related to what we’re talking about. I find myself while listening to you… or, no… I want to listen to what you’re saying and yet there’s always this internal dialogue going on in my head.
1:01:32 K: So, where you are having internal dialogue in your head, you can’t listen.
1:01:39 Q: Yes, I want to listen but I look at…
1:01:42 K: Sir, just find out; just... let’s stop now. You and I are two friends - right? - you want to listen what I am telling you and I’m willing to listen to what you have to tell me and yet I go on thinking in myself all the time. Why? Which means, really, doesn’t it, I really don’t want to listen to you, or what you are telling is not interesting, I’m not interested in what you are telling me – right? - or I’m disinclined to listen, because I don’t know where it’s leading me to - right? - so I keep on talking to myself; or you are too clear and I’m frightened of that clarity – you understand? – too clear when you explain to me about the causes of war, how people divide and so on; you see it very clearly and I’m frightened of you clarity. You understand what I…? So I’ll talk to myself, which means... all this means, I’m really not interested in what you are talking about.
1:03:13 Q: Well, I have some interest.
1:03:18 K: Ah, yes, but ‘some’ (laughs); some casual, superficial interest, but deeply you are not. Face that, face... I don’t mind if you listen or don’t listen. I’m not going to get hurt, because I’m your friend; I want to find out why you can’t listen. But you do listen to something that interests you.
1:03:44 Q: Yes.
1:03:46 K: Therefore what interests you?
1:03:48 Q: Many things.
1:03:50 K: Tell me one of them.
1:03:53 Q: Ah, sports cars.
1:03:55 K: Sport, all right. Are you good at sports?
1:04:00 Q: Ah, some sports, yes.
1:04:02 K: Why not... excellent at it? You are listening now; you are not talking to yourself. (Laughter)
1:04:54 K: What about it, sir, question? Are you nervous of me? Ah? You are, are you, a little bit?
1:05:12 Q: Oh, well, in the beginning, extremely... (inaudible). (Laugher).
1:05:14 K: But not now?
1:05:15 Q: No, I feel comfortable.
1:05:16 K: You’ve got used to it.
1:05:17 Q: Yes. (Laughter).
1:05:20 K: What have you got used to? The voice?
1:05:22 Q: The general feeling...
1:05:25 K: The being bombarded? (Laughter)
1:05:30 K: So when you get used to something you get dull.
1:05:38 Q: Dull?
1:05:40 K: If you get used to this dull weather... (Laughter)
1:05:46 K: ...and when sunshine comes, you can’t stand it. So don’t get used to it (laughs).
1:05:59 Q: How do we communicate to a person who speaks a different language? Do we have to learn that language? I mean, if you’re talking about a world peace and as an individual you’re trying to achieve something, how do you communicate...?
1:06:37 K: Sir, I’m not talking about world peace. You cannot have world peace if each one of us is sticking to his own thing... this or that. It must begin with us, with you and me, not with the world, with a new governments and all that kind of blah. If I am a Catholic for… and I hold on to that and you are a Sikh or a Muslim - I’m not insulting you, I hope - then you and I, we are going to create violence. All that we are saying, observing what the facts are and if you observe the facts you have got to do something and that something is me and you, not the world and all the rest of it; one must begin very near. That’s... only you, you are the nearest person to yourself. Don’t be convinced by me. You observe very closely what is happening. (Pause)
1:08:24 Q: Sir, all this I see...
1:08:34 K: (Italian).
1:08:39 Q: (Laughs) si. (Italian).
1:08:48 K: (Italian).
1:08:52 K: Si, si.
1:08:59 Q: (Italian).
1:09:03 K: Generale, si. The gentleman is saying, ‘I am very legato, tied to my problems, to my own individual problems and I can’t possibly see the thing widely. So look... So, (Italian)... I mean, watch your own problems; watch your own problem and get out of it, not stick to it and carry it for the rest of your life. Right? Now, why do you have problems at your age or at any age, why do you have problems?
1:10:09 Q: We don’t know how to answer them, solve them.
1:10:17 K: Or... no, don’t… that’s a very easy answer. Find out: why do you have problems? What is a problem? The meaning of that word - you understand? - the word, the meaning of the word problem, what does it mean?
1:10:47 Q: Something you don’t understand.
1:10:51 K: No, no. I’m asking what the word means, the etymological meaning of that word. I looked up in the dictionary that’s why I’m asking (laughs). (Laughter)
1:11:13 Q: Something thrown forward.
1:11:16 K: That’s right, something thrown at you - right? - something thrown at you and you cannot meet it properly. Right? Agree? So you make a problem. Why? Go slowly into this; very interesting this question if you go into it very carefully. Look, you throw at me the challenge that I am a stupid man and I say, ‘Yes, I’m a stupid man. I made a problem of it.’ Right? ‘I must change; I must do something about it.’ Right? Why is my brain reacting that way? (Italian)?
1:12:21 Q: Si.
1:12:23 K: Bene. Why is my brain reacting that way? You understand my question? Ah?
1:12:36 Q: Yes.
1:12:38 K: You ask me something and I’m puzzled by it, bewildered by it; I don’t know how to answer it and so I make a problem of it. Right? Why? Think it out very carefully; slowly go into it.
1:13:04 Q: Well, if X calls me stupid, I…
1:13:08 K: Take any… call me stupid, I took that.
1:13:10 Q: Okay; yes; you call me... if you say that I’m stupid, I think my automatic reaction is to say, ‘No, I am not stupid.’
1:13:21 K: I know. Don’t take the word stupid. I’m envious – take much... a little bit more. You have problems, haven’t you?
1:13:31 Q: Yes.
1:13:33 K: Why? So - you understand? - when you have problems like this you make the whole of your life into a problem. Right? Living becomes a problem. Right? I say why does the brain make problems? You understand my question? You don’t.
1:14:04 Q: Well, if I understood it, it would be solved.
1:14:06 K: No, I’m not asking how to resolve the problem or how to evade the problem, how to answer it. That’s not my point. Why does the brain create problems?
1:14:19 Q: It doesn’t feel certain; not sure.
1:14:25 K: No, you’re not getting... I’m not making myself clear. All right. From childhood going to school becomes a problem, doesn’t it? Learning mathematics becomes a problem; so my brain, from childhood, is trained to solve problems. Right? Be clear on this. Don’t accept what I’m saying; watch it for yourself. I don’t know Sanskrit or Latin or Greek or mathematics or whatever it is, and my God, it’s become a problem for me. Right? I don’t know how to do yoga, if you at all do it, and so I say, ‘My God, I must learn, I must... whom am I to...?’ You follow? So I’m asking not a problem or problems but the brain that meets a challenge and then makes a problem of it. You understand?
1:15:48 Q: Can you repeat this?
1:15:53 K: Can I repeat? I’ve forgotten it. (Laughter)
1:16:01 K: Just a minute; let me think. Sir, you throw something at me, my wife or you or husband throws... makes a statement that I am a coward – thunder - that I’m a coward, and I say, ‘My God, am I a coward?’ I thought I was brave – you follow? – I’m making a problem of it. Now, I’m saying why does the brain make a problem of anything. I say it’s... I may be wrong; correct it if I’m wrong. I say from childhood I have been trained to solve the problems – right? – trained, educated, so anything I meet, like a question you throw at me, I make a problem of it and then I say I must resolve it.
1:17:12 Q: Yes.
1:17:13 K: So it is not a question of challenge and a problem but the brain not being free to meet something openly, clearly. You understand? I wonder... Have I made myself...?
1:17:29 Q: (Inaudible).
1:17:30 K: Have you understood what I’ve said?
1:17:37 Q: Yes.
1:17:38 K: All right, sir, we’ll go into it little more. To you mathematics is a problem, is it?
1:17:47 Q: Yes.
1:17:48 K: Yes? Doesn’t matter, geography, anything.
1:17:53 Q: Yes.
1:17:54 K: Why? Think it out slowly; go into it carefully; why?
1:18:02 Q: I have no interest in it.
1:18:07 K: So you’re only… when you have interest it has no problem. Interest doesn’t create problems. Of course it does. I have interest in aviation, in flying, but I have to study engineering - right? - I have to study various pressures and all the rest of it; that becomes a problem. Right? So... go on. So I look at life... as a whole life as a problem. Should I marry, should I not marry? If I do marry, what about children? Should I have sex, should I not have sex – you follow? – and how... getting a job - ‘My God, it’s so impossible to get a job.’ So I treat life as a way... as a movement in problems. Right? Life becomes a problem. Right? What am I going to do when I leave this place? College - am I good at passing exams? Will I, at the end of it, will I get a job? Or with so much unemployment, I may not get any job at all, therefore why should I study at all?
1:19:39 Q: Well, if I don’t study...
1:19:42 K: I mean... You follow? If I don’t get a job after passing excellent examinations, what’s the point of it? So I say to myself, ‘To hell with it all. What am I to do?’ Then it becomes a problem. You understand? Everything in life we make it into a problem. Right? It’s obvious; I don’t know why you are hesitating about it. No? So I say why does the brain react that way? You understand my question? It’s not difficult, sir...
1:20:32 Q: Well, according to what I understand, we use only a small part of our brain.
1:20:43 K: All right, small part. Keep to the small part of the brain; large part, small part, the whole... keep the little part. Why does the little part react that way? (Laughter)
1:21:00 K: Because from childhood you have made life into a problem. Child... if your mother says, ‘Don’t do it,’ and you want to do it. You cry and the mother yields and so on. Go to school and there you have to study mathematics, geography, history. Right? ‘My God, I don’t want to,’ but it becomes... you have to do it, it becomes a problem; and examination becomes a problem and... go on, from school to college, if you are lucky enough, from... still more lucky to go to university, the whole thing becomes a problem. And after you have passed the university, get a degree, you become a lawyer or a doctor or a professor or an engineer, that becomes also, ‘My God, I have no job; I have to apprentice myself to some other lawyer’, so that becomes a problem. Right? Then, should I marry or not marry? I have no house, I must get a house. I can’t live with my parents, they’re a bore and so on and on and on and on. Right? So life becomes a problem and I say to myself, ‘Why? Why we have made life into a problem?’ Is it that one part of my brain has been trained, educated, conditioned to resolve problems – right? – and so when I meet something I say that’s a problem which must be answered, which must be resolved. Right? So is it possible for the little part of the brain, that part of the brain, to say, ‘All right, I won’t make a problem of anything.’ Just look at it, learn... see what it is. You understand now? You make me… I say something to you or you say something to me and I don’t like it, and I begin to dislike you, and whenever I meet you, as it happens every day, I dislike you more and more and more; that becomes a problem. Right?
1:23:47 Q: Right.
1:23:48 K: So I say why didn’t I, at the beginning, examine this question? You dislike me... you said something I dislike. Let me examine that and not make a problem of it. You understand? Yes, sir, don’t get... You understood it. So can we meet a challenge, something thrown at you, which is really a challenge and not make a problem of it? Not to make a problem of it is to examine it, to look at it, to be aware what it means. Right? Does this… all this, does it mean anything to you? We have talked for an hour and a half - I don’t know how long - does it mean anything to you? If you say, ‘It means nothing to me,’ it’s all right, we can begin again, but does it actually mean anything to you? When you leave this assembly, is your mind, is your brain a little more alert, watching, learning, watching, seeing what is happening?
1:25:43 Q: It is for a few hours.
1:25:46 K: All right; all right; for a few hours it is. Don’t make a problem of it. (Laughter)
1:25:57 K: Yes, it’s for a few hours, I’m very clear; but inquire why you’re not clear all the time. Don’t just say, ‘For a few hours I’m fairly clear’ and drop it there, but find out why you are not clear all... Is it that you’re not watching, falling back into your old condition? So... you follow, sir? Move. What time is it? I forgot...
1:26:47 Shakunthala Livneh: Five to one.
1:26:48 K: Is that enough for this morning. You know what a sermon is? (Laughter)
1:27:08 K: A moralising dictum; moralising with a peculiar tone in a church. This is not a sermon. So should we stop now? Enough? Enough is enough, is it? Right? (Laughter)