Krishnamurti - What is the meaning of religion?

AM71T4 - What is the meaning of religion?
Amsterdam - 25 May 1971
Public Talk 4

0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s fourth public talk in Amsterdam, 1971.

0:06 Krishnamurti: We said we were going to talk over together the question of meditation, and before we go into that we should consider what is the meaning of religion.

0:42 I think man, centuries upon centuries, has always tried to find out if there is something beyond his own particular sphere of thought, if there is something more mysterious than the everyday existence. He’s tried to find out a quality of a mind that is not caught in time, and in his endeavour he has invented various theories, speculations, beliefs, hoping thereby to come upon this thing which man has tried always to find. And organised religion, institutionalised religion with their dogmas, with their beliefs, with their interpreters – the priests, the popes, the various religious heads in India and Asia and so on – they obviously are merely repeating something which tradition has been invested in them. 3:21 And in spite of all this, man has tried to find a reality – doesn’t matter what name one gives to it – that is not transient, that is not caught in mortality. And in Asia they have said, some of them, in their search, in their endeavour, in their hope, that man is God, that there is God in man. And you can find that reality in man, they said, by peeling off layer after layer of ignorance, of suffering, of various sacrifices, disciplines. And in the West they said there is God but only one person through whom God has expressed himself.

5:12 And there are so many theories, so many beliefs. And also, one observes, religion, whether it is organised, institutionalised, it has played an immense part. The organised religions hope to bring about a unity of mankind. And the organised religions, perhaps except one or two like Buddhism and Hinduism, have not indulged in bloodshed. The others, in the name of God, in the name of peace, in the name of whatever it was, had wars, inquisitions, terrible things went on in the name of religion.

6:25 And if you put aside all that, that is, the institutional belief, the very clever, cunning propaganda of perhaps five thousand years or two thousand years, when you put aside all that, if one can, because that is a very difficult thing to do, because most of us are conditioned so heavily, as they are being conditioned in the communist world not to believe – if we could put aside all that and intelligently observe and find out, if we can, whether there is a reality, a state of mind that is really not the product of time, that is not caught in self-deception, in any form of delusion and free of all visions, because every form of vision is a projection of that which has been, that which has conditioned the mind. 8:34 In India they see their gods, their Krishnas or whatever their peculiar deity, and here also they have innumerable visions – the saints and all the rest of it.

8:54 And in enquiring freely into this question whether there is something that is not nameable, that is not a projection of one’s own wish, a conclusion that is brought about through despair, through this insoluble suffering, to come upon that for the really... the religious mind obviously must be free of every form of belief, dogma, speculative, conceptual ideas. For religion, the real thing, does bring about a total unity of mankind. And whether we, you and I, spending an hour and a half of an evening, being either very serious or curious or slightly inclined to enquire into this question, one has – hasn’t one? – to begin as though you knew nothing. 11:15 Though you may have read all the literature on religious thought, the works of the saints – you know, all that, those books that have been written – if we could put aside all that and try to find out for ourselves, not through somebody else, not through any religion, through any saviour, through any religious head or founder. One has to – hasn’t one? – be free of any form of fear or any form of desiring to achieve something, something greater, or experience something that is transcendental. 12:43 Because in that there is a hope and that hope is born out of our despair. And a mind that’s merely caught in despair and projecting a hope will be caught inevitably in illusion. So one must be very clear that the mind, in enquiring into this question, must be totally… be free of all the things that man has put together, in order to find out.

13:52 Because most of us are frightened, not only of the most superficial things, into which we went into the other day, but also he’s greatly frightened about death, and religions throughout the world have offered him a comfort. And in Asia they pin their faith and their hope in reincarnation, being born next life. Here you... here in the West you have your own particular form of hope, because nobody who is sane wants to die. But we are going to die and that thing called death is something mysterious, unknown, and probably for most people extraordinarily painful. 15:26 It is the ultimate despair, unless you are fed up with life. And religions with their theories, with their beliefs, with their saviours, with their teachers and gurus, have asserted that there is a life beyond the present, and death is only a passing event to a future greatness, and so on. And when a mind is frightened of coming suddenly to an end, it must naturally seek or demand or want some kind of hope in some future. That’s what we all want, don’t we? Because you have lived thirty, twenty, forty years, or eighty years, worked, cultivated your character, acquired so many things, possessions, so many attachments, and you want to have more time, more time to carry out the things that have not been done, both outwardly and inwardly. 17:43 And to suddenly come to an end either through old age, through disease, through accident, is rather frightening. Because when that thing happens, you have to face it alone. You have... All your attachments no longer play any part.

18:30 So the mind is always enquiring if there is something more, if there is something greater beyond this everyday, shoddy little life with its sorrow and despairs and anxieties – the everlasting conflict. And when in Asia they believe in reincarnation – that is, to be reincarnated next life – they accept it so easily and they want proofs of it, and those who want proof of a continuity do generally find proofs. That’s one of the easiest things to find, proofs. And in reincarnation is implied that how you live now, what you do now matters because next life you’re going to either pay for it, be happy with it – you carry over all that you are this life now. 20:24 And the implication is the present – your behaviour, conduct – matters much more now than in the future because what you are now you will be. But those who believe in reincarnation really don’t pay attention to that at all. That is, what you are now, what you do now, what you think, what you feel, what your motives are. But that belief is just a passing, satisfying comfort. And here too one is so frightened of death. You may rationalise it, intellectually accept it, give dozen explanations to it, and if you are religiously inclined, there is the resurrection and all the rest of it.

21:52 Now if one could put aside all that, actually put aside all that and face the fear involved in death, one has to understand the nature of time. Not the chronological time by the watch but the whole psychological time as distance between now and death, between now and tomorrow, because tomorrow may be the ending. So one has to comprehend, not merely intellectually or verbally, whether there is tomorrow at all. That’s rather frightening too. There is a tomorrow according to time as yesterday, today and tomorrow. 23:50 That is the chronological time. There is a tomorrow. But psychologically, is there a tomorrow at all? Actually, not theoretically. Psychologically, the entity that says, ‘I’m going to live, I want to live next life,’ or, ‘I shall be in heaven next life later when I die,’ what is that entity? Call it the soul, the Atman – there are dozen names given to it – what is that, the ‘you’?

24:50 This is important to understand: if there is a permanent you, permanent me. Or it’s a matter, it’s a thing that has been put together through words, through symbols, image, various forms of attachments, whether it be the attachment to your family, to your house, to a bank account, to a name, or your furniture. What is that thing to which we all cling to so desperately? Because that is what we are frightened of: that thing coming to an end, knowing that we shall die inevitably. The organism, through disease, old age, constant strain, must come to an end but we are not worried so much about that. 26:31 But what we are frightened of is that ‘I’ will come to an end. So one has to understand what that ‘I’ is. And has that ‘I’ any tomorrow? Bene? Or that ‘I’, which has been put together by thought, projects the future according to the past, modified through the present. And this modification of the past through the present to the future is time, psychologically, inwardly. That’s why we living put death in the distance. And being frightened, we must have time to live. And our life as it is now is a – you know what it is – a trial, a boredom, a meaningless existence, though you may have family, go to the office, have bank account – you know, all the rest of the business that goes on – killing each other, making noises with our mouth and our minds – that’s what we call living – anxiety, despair, endless sorrow. 29:16 And to that we cling. And that, we want to project tomorrow.

29:27 So in asking if there is a tomorrow at all, is it not necessary to die to all the past, to die to all our memories? Have your ever tried to put an end to a pleasant memory? Just to end it without any argument, without any explanation. Because you cannot – you’re not going to argue when the moment comes when you’re dying. You can’t argue with death. So to end this process of time, which is: yesterday I was, today I am and tomorrow I will be. Because we want to become something all the time: better looking, more virtuous – you know, becoming, becoming. And to die to that whole process. Then you will see time has a very little meaning. Then the mind is entirely at a... working or living in a different dimension altogether.

31:35 And there is another problem – not really a problem but something which the Orientals have brought to all these countries – which is called meditation. And I believe there are many schools of meditation in this country and as in America and in Europe. Every little group with their little master, with their little guru, as in India, has a system of meditation. And everybody is so dreadfully eager to meditate. Not knowing what it is really, what are the real meaning of it, go to various schools in order to learn meditation because they think they’ll have new kind of experience. Because they are bored with their life, they want to try something new. They have tried drugs, all kinds of exciting experiences, adds another.

33:14 Now, what is meditation? Because it is related to, as we said, to life – life being the pain, the sorrow, the anxiety, the guilt, the desire for power, position, prestige, the conflict, responsibility, going to the office or to the factory day after day for forty, fifty years, and the boredom of all that – that is what we call living. And we think meditation is something apart from our life, something you practise for ten minutes a day, sitting in a certain posture, breathing in a certain way and getting to God knows what. 34:51 First of all, if you really want to find out what meditation is – if you really want to – don’t accept anything about meditation, what another says. Right? Because you know nothing about it. And being gullible, because we want to experience some mysterious thing, we fall into a trap of systems, methods and the gurus, the teachers who say they know, they have experienced. Now when a guru or a teacher or a priest says he knows, what does he know? You know, that word ‘know’ is a dangerous word because you can only know something that’s over, something that has gone by, that you have already finished. 36:26 And when these people say they know, they really don’t know. They only know that which has happened. And when they say they have tremendous experience of something or other – that word ‘experience’ implies, dictionary meaning is to go through, finish with it, not carry on with it – and when you have experienced something which you think is transcendental, beyond, then it becomes a mere memory and that you worship.

37:24 So one has to be very cautious of anybody who says they know or they have experienced or when they offer various systems of meditation for thirty guilders. And not knowing, actually not knowing – because you really don’t know what it means – then we together, you and I, can find out what it means. That’s much more fun, much more worthwhile.

38:22 First of all, we can see both logically and intellectually and verbally and rationally that any form of control of thought implies a battle, a conflict. I want to control my thought: my thought runs away in all kinds of directions. So I control, I force myself. Is control of thought right or wrong? Or – one shouldn’t say ‘right or wrong’ – is it essential? Because moment I control my thought, there is the controller and the controlled, and so there is a division between the two and hence there is a conflict. 39:49 So control of thought is absolutely invalid. Right? I’ll go into it – you will see. When you control thought, one thought assumes the authority to control all other thoughts. Are you... I hope you are observing this, you are doing it. Now who has given that authority to that one particular thought? Knowledge, information or tradition saying, ‘You must control thought,’ therefore you must control thought?

40:47 So I don’t accept any tradition. I don’t know a thing about meditation, therefore I want to eliminate everything that man has said about meditation, the right thing to do meditation. I want to eliminate it totally. Because a mind that is in conflict, it will inevitably be distorted. Therefore there must be not a breath of conflict. So control implies conflict. So I am going to find out, one has to find out how to bring about thought which can function with all the energy, vitality, efficiency, logically, sanely, and also when thought must be completely quiet, not controlled. 42:06 You are following all this? Control implies wastage of energy. One energy as thought is opposing another energy which is also thought. So there is a contradiction, a fragmentation of energy. You can observe this in... as we are talking. So as that is a factor of contradiction and therefore wastage of energy through conflict, one must discard that totally. But yet there is the necessity of thought to function freely because otherwise you can’t do a... anything – we couldn’t be talking to each other. 43:32 And yet thought must be totally quiet. And it is necessary to be quiet because it’s only when the mind is completely still you can observe. You understand? That’s fairly simple. If my mind is chattering endlessly, it cannot see clearly, it cannot listen intensely. So to see, observe, listen, the mind must be absolutely quiet. That’s logical.

44:38 So, they say, the professionals – the teachers, the gurus, the practice... those who practise meditation – you must breathe properly, learn, you know, breathing properly, yoga. Oh Lord, so many things they have transported to these countries, and you are... one reads about them and one practises them. I don’t know why you do it. But yoga means unity of perception – you understand? – perception that is unified. The real meaning of that word is that: a mind that perceives totally, without any division. 45:52 And you can perceive totally only completely when the mind is wholly quiet. So they say you must sit in a certain posture, control your thought, breathe properly and so on. Again a contradiction takes place because you are in conflict, because you don’t know how to control, how to breathe, how to – you follow? – all that begins.

46:40 And what is it that meditation offers according to all these people? Enlightenment? You mean to say you can be enlightened if you have not lived properly? You can be enlightened by doing some exercises, listening to some guru, practising some system, when your mind is shoddy, little, petty? And can a mind be quiet through any system, through any action of will? Will is a form of resistance, obviously. And resistance brings conflict. So the mind, can the mind be free totally of all will and yet function in this world efficiently?

48:27 So, one sees in watching all this, in learning about all this, that meditation means a way of life, every... a way of daily life – not ten minutes a day in a corner – a way of life from the moment you wake up till you sleep and beyond sleep, in which there is no effort whatsoever. That’s a tremendous thing to discover. Where there is division there is conflict: I will, I must, I must not, the observer and the observed. Whereas the observer is the observed. So the mind, living in daily life, must be in a state of constant watchfulness, awareness, attention, so that this process of contradiction comes to an end every day. 50:24 Have you ever noticed that when you go to... before you go to sleep, you look over what has happened during the day, what you have said, what you have done? Haven’t you done that? Taking a record, going over the record, just before you sleep – have you done it? Some of you have done it, obviously. Why does one do it? Please, watch it. Why does one do it? Going over the day’s events, saying, ‘I should not have done that,’ ‘I should have done that,’ ‘I should have written this way, put the word’ – you know, go over the whole event – why? 51:23 Because if you don’t do it before you go to sleep, the brain does it, because it wants order. And you go over the day’s event before you sleep because you are bringing order into it. So, in the same way, bringing order every day without any conflict, because disorder is conflict. So meditation is a way of living during the day in which the dual contradiction, the division completely non-existent.

52:40 Then in meditation there is the quality of attention. You’re interested in all this? Bene. I’ll go on if you – doesn’t matter. A quality of attention which is entirely different from concentration. Where there is concentration there is again duality because you are trying to concentrate, which becomes a form of resistance, exclusion and you build a wall round yourself. Whereas attention is entirely different. A mind that’s completely attentive needs no concentration because it is attentive. In that there is no duality as the observer and the observed. You know what it means to be attentive? To give your mind, your heart, your every – all your energy completely. When you do that there is no centre which is being attentive.

54:21 Then meditation implies also to have a completely still mind. Because you see why. You know, when you look at a tree or the beauty of a mountain or the beauty of a face, your mind and your heart are completely harmonious. For the moment when you see something marvellous, you are not there. Haven’t you noticed it? You are not there at all. That thing so astonishingly beautiful absorbs you. All your problems, all your pettiness, everything it takes over. For the moment that beauty, that magnificence stuns you, like a boy, like a child with a toy. The toy absorbs the baby, the child. When that absorption is over he becomes what he is.

56:15 And in meditation one has to go into this question of what is beauty. All the religious people have been frightened of beauty. Haven’t you noticed it? The monks, the dedicated professionals – there are artists among them, I don’t mean those – because beauty for those people implies sensation, sexual appetites awakening. And one has to find out what is beauty. Because if your mind is not sensitive, alert, without understanding what beauty is, we cannot go very far. 57:44 Does it lie in a painting, in a building, in the tree, in the cloud, in the thing that man has made by hand or by the mind? Or there is that passion for beauty only when the ‘me’ is not. When you see a mountain, the light on the water, the ‘me’ is not. And it is only then there is beauty.

58:38 So, meditation is a mind that is... that has seen the whole of life, as we have examined during the last three talks. And such a mind has no demand for further experience because it’s the light to itself. Now, a mind that’s so quiet, completely still, has a movement in that stillness which cannot be put into words. In that there is vast mystery. Not the mystery that man has... desires, man wants to find out. It is something entirely different. Up to that we can talk about. You understand? 1:00:12 That is, meditation is... is negatively what it is not. We can discuss, we can talk about it, we can see the necessity of it and so on but what lies beyond can never be put into words. And if you do, it is not what you describe. And so a mind that’s completely... has lived, understood and is free of fear, knows the meaning, is aware of that which is called love and death. To such a mind there is something that is beyond words which is not of time, which is indestructible.

1:01:26 Shall we discuss about this? Do you want to ask any questions?

1:02:05 Questioner: Sir, may I ask you if there a way, exercise in meditation through yoga? Don’t you shut up all the possibilities and make it ridiculous?

1:02:23 K: What, sir? You are... Are you saying that I’m making yoga ridiculous?

1:02:32 Q: Yes, sir. [Laughs]

1:02:41 K: You know, yoga means unity of perception – I’m not making it ridiculous – unity of perceptions. And there are various forms of yoga, from what one has heard in India. Part of that yoga is exercises, what they call asanas, postures, which is to keep the body perfectly healthy. The postures, the yogic exercises are meant to cultivate and keep healthy the various glands. And in that, man naturally has given great deal of meaning to it. 1:04:14 That is, you must practise yoga, exercise often, clearly, stand on your head, all the rest of it. If I may be little bit personal – I hope you don’t mind – I do it every day for an hour and a half. Therefore I can’t be ridiculing it. I do it not because to attain enlightenment, to see something greater than the mind; the Speaker does it purely for exercises.

1:05:13 You know, once we were travelling in India in a train and we came to a station. And just outside that station, on a – which was very dirty – on a dirty little field, a man was doing the perfect yoga, standing on head, doing the whole thing so beautifully. He was thin as a rake and doing it perfectly. And people were throwing coins to him. He was a beggar. And you see, a mind that may be stupid, vulgar, petty can do yoga, breathe, all the thing, you know, perfectly, stand on your head superbly, sit in a perfect posture. But the mind will still be shoddy, will still be envious. So which is more important, to keep the body perfectly healthy, which is necessary, or to have a mind that is full of delight and clarity and does yoga too? 1:07:13 Whereas most of us want physical perfection – do yoga and become young. You know? So we are not ridiculing it. We are showing the whole picture. Yoga also says, control, do various things. And if you... if you never read a book, if you had to find out entirely everything by yourself – and you have to because you have to stand alone. Because that... a mind that’s completely alone, it’s only such a mind that can meet that which is not contaminated.

1:08:26 Q: But how to reach there? There is a Mount Everest, we all see it, but how to get it there?

1:08:39 K: We see Mount Everest and it’s easy to climb, or rather difficult, but we don’t see the other – how do we get there.

1:09:03 First, by denying everything that man has put together and foisted on you. Because unless you... one understands oneself, which we went into yesterday – knowing oneself – knowledge becomes an impediment to reality. There is no system to get there. If there was a system and you practised it, your mind will become mechanical. So, to see the truth as truth in that which is false. Sir, to see – just a minute – to see nationalism is... is a false division. And to see the truth of it. Right? To see the truth of it. If you see the truth of it, you’re free of nationalism. If you see the truth that any form of division inwardly or outwardly must breed conflict – see the truth of it, not just the idea, not a conclusion but the fact – if you see that and if you see the meaning of sorrow and the ending of sorrow, the truth of it. 1:11:15 That is, to see the truth of everyday movement. When I lie, I know I am lying: to be aware of it, not to cover it up, not to pretend. That means tremendous watchfulness. And this implies no division in energy. You know, we waste a great deal of energy, not only in conflict, and we think through conflict we shall have greater energy, opposing two contradictory desires – those are all wastage of energy. And you need tremendous energy to observe. And you waste your energy if you practise a method or follow a system or a path laid down by another. Then you are merely imitating. So if you... if you see the truth of all that we have been discussing, not the acceptance 1:12:49 of it, not the acceptance of authority, but see the truth for yourself of everything you do, then you have... then the... then you’re free to observe and that reality is there. You don’t have to invite it and there is no path to truth. Yes, sir?

1:13:21 Q: [Inaudible]

1:13:22 K: What is that?

1:13:24 Q: The lady has read a book ‘At the Feet of the Master.’ What made you decide to change your mind not to follow a guru?

1:13:53 K: What made you follow a guru when you were age of fifteen. Right? You wrote a book – the questioner says you wrote a book ‘At the feet of the Master’ when you were fourteen or thirteen – what made you follow a guru. Need that be answered? Please, need that be answered? When you are a little boy…

1:14:31 Q: [Inaudible]

1:14:32 K: When you are a little boy, you know, full of… [Laughter] …and looking, and you accept, especially when you are hungry, you accept all these things. I don’t think that needs great deal of explanation.

1:14:57 Q: [Inaudible] …you have written a book in praise of your master and now you say that you should not accept any others. What made you change your mind?

1:15:19 K: Oh, I’m showing you, madame. What makes you change your mind when you have accepted a guru as authority; what has changed you. Simply, very simple: to see the truth, to see the falseness of authority. When you see, sir, when you see a danger, do you go on playing with that danger?

1:15:52 Q: Sir…

1:15:54 K: What, sir? Yes, sir?

1:16:00 Q: Sir, isn’t there a difference between spontaneous awareness of the beauty of the mountains and the fact that you are trying to be aware, because the trying involves an act of will…

1:16:24 K: I understand. When you see a mountain there is a spontaneous awareness. When you are trying to be aware – trying – then in that there is no spontaneity but an action of will. Right? That’s the question, sir.

1:16:45 Don’t try; just be aware. Just be aware, look at the colour, then you discover that you don’t like that colour or that you don’t like that – you follow? – just observe. In that there is no effort involved. It’s only when you want to be aware – you think through awareness you’ll achieve something. Then effort comes in, then action of will comes in. But just to be aware. Sir, just to watch your face in the mirror.

1:17:38 Q: If it is so easy, why do we not succeed?

1:17:43 K: If it is so easy, why do we not do it. [Laughter] No, you don’t see the complication of it. Just to be aware is just a beginning of it. To be aware: of the hall, of the people sitting there, the lights, the noise, people scratching their face, yawning, tired – just to watch. That is a relationship between the watcher and the watched. Then in that relationship you begin to discover. You begin to learn what’s going on: that you like and dislike, that you are angry – you follow? – you begin to unravel. But you have to first observe. But we have stopped observing because we have thousand problems and our... those problems consume our energy.

1:19:14 So instead of being aware, try to understand those problems. You understand? Look at the problems, face them. Don’t escape, go into it. Now, how you observe the problem matters: whether you observe them as an outsider looking in, or you are the problem, not the problem is different from you. If you are the problem, not ‘the problem and you’, then what takes place? If I am the problem, and not a problem divided from me, the whole of me is the problem, he is the creator of problems. 1:20:17 If I am aware, if I know that completely, not intellectually, actually, see the truth of that: that I am the problem, not somebody has foisted on me the problem or that there is a division between me and the problem – if I am the problem, then what takes place? Because that’s the fact. The fact is I am the problem. I am the past ideas, knowledge, past fears, hopes, projected in the future. I am all that. Now, when... when I am that, there is no intention of going beyond, of trying to change it, trying 1:21:20 to suppress it. It is… any movement on my part is still another problem. Are you meeting all this? So when the mind realises it is the problem, the mind then becomes extraordinarily quiet. You go into it. Now, the whole of that is part of awareness. To be aware beginning slowly, playfully, enquiring and then you go very, very deeply, inwardly.

1:22:05 Q: Sir, may I ask you a question? How do you know everything you’ve told us?

1:22:13 K: How do I know everything you told us. I haven’t read therefore I don’t know. Have you got it? The gentleman asks: how do you know all that you have told us. I really don’t know. [Laughter] Because if I say, ‘Well, I have known all these things,’ then I am living in the past, dead. Therefore one must die every day to everything that you know. Therefore every morning is a fresh morning.

1:23:22 Q: [Inaudible]

1:23:26 K: Beg your pardon, I can’t quite hear.

1:23:38 Q: You said yesterday that everything man touches becomes distorted…

1:23:46 K: Everything that man touches becomes sordid.

1:23:50 Q: Distorted.

1:23:53 K: Distorted. Isn’t that so? We have distorted our relationships, we’ve distorted our... our way of life, we’ve distorted our love – everything that we have touched is… because in ourselves we are corrupt. Which is not a despair; that’s a fact. So can that corruption end, not in some future date but immediately? And that... the ending of sorrow is... can be immediate if you know how to look, if you don’t escape from it, if you don’t want to suppress it, if you can live with... live with it completely, without any movement of fear or resistance. Then that thing completely changes. Do it. If you are afraid, live with it, be aware of it, know all the content of it. Don’t try to suppress it and play tricks with it.

1:25:34 Q: Sometimes in life we need will, don’t we?

1:25:47 K: Sometime in life we need will, don’t we – do we? I’m not sure. Wait, sir, wait, sir, wait, sir. Sometimes you need will in life. Do we? I’m questioning it. Does a man who sees very clearly, does he need will to act? When you see very clearly that division breeds conflict, when you see it clearly, see the truth of it, is there any need for will? So it’s only the mind that’s confused needs will. You’re following this? I am confused, I don’t know what to do. 1:27:03 You tell me one thing and somebody else tells me a something else. I like your face, your gestures, your – et cetera, therefore I’ll follow you. And in my confusion I choose you. In my confusion I choose my politician, and woe is me. And so I see where there is choice there must be confusion. And where there is confusion there must be the action of will which further increases confusion. Whereas if you see things very clearly then there is no action of will.

1:28:08 Q: What do you mean by intuition?

1:28:16 K: What do you mean...

1:28:17 Q: …by intuition.

1:28:18 K: What do I mean by intuition – is that it? Is that the question, sir? I don’t know what you said, I’m asking you.

1:28:33 Q: Yes, that’s right.

1:28:35 K: What do I mean by intuition. I’ve never used that word, [laughter] because that’s a rather a dangerous word. Because I can have intuition about every... about things which I like. I like the idea of reincarnation, you know, deeply, and my... intuitively I say, ‘By Jove, that’s perfectly right.’ [Laughter] I... That’s a most… a very disturbing and it’s a word that should be used, if ever you use it, hardly because it so deceptive.

1:29:22 Q: Sir, is your awareness the same as it is in Zen Buddhism?

1:29:31 K: Is your awareness same as in Zen Buddhism.

1:29:42 Not having read Zen Buddhism, I don’t know. [Laughter] But sir, just a minute, sir, go slow, don’t laugh. Why do you compare? Why do you compare what is being said now with what you have already read or somebody has told you what Zen Buddhism says about awareness? Why do we compare at all in life? Please, do give two minutes to this. You compare your son with the… younger son to the older son – don’t you? – and say, ‘Well, you must be as clever as your elder brother.’ When you do that what happens? You are destroying the younger brother. 1:30:34 In the class, when they compare the dull boy to the clever boy, you’re destroying the dull boy. And when you compare what is being said to Zen, you’re not listening to what is being said. And our whole life is based on comparison, which is... in which there is competition arises from that, conflict. I feel inferior if I am not comparing myself with my hero. In comparing I feel weaker, inferior. So why should we compare at all? Do put this question to yourself and find out. Are you dull because you compare yourself with somebody who is clever? 1:31:40 If you had no comparison at all, would you call yourself dull? You’d be... you’d be what you are and that’s a fact, and from there move. So can you live a life – please, this is one of the most serious things to do – live a life in which there is no comparison whatsoever, except perhaps when you choose this cloth and that cloth or this hat or that hat. But psychologically never to compare and you will see what a tremendous burden you have put away from you.

1:32:39 Q: Are you telling us to stop every study of philosophy?

1:32:53 K: Are you telling us to stop every study of philosophy.

1:32:57 I’m not telling you a thing. [Laughter] Please, I really mean it. I’m not telling you anything. Wait, wait, sir, just – I’m only pointing out for you to look, which is yourself. Look at yourself not what I am saying. Use the speaker as a mirror in which you are watching yourself. It’s only the fools that offer advice. And we are not telling you what to do. I am not your guru, I’m not your... You are not my disciples thank God! [Laughter] We are only pointing out what you are, and it’s for you to learn about yourself. And if you learn about yourself you are the history of mankind. Everything is in you to look, if you know how to look. And that is far greater than any book. Just one, please, one more.

1:34:27 Q: [Inaudible] …the marvellous, tremendous stillness of your mind. Isn’t that the same thing as the love of Jesus Christ, where his love will bring about to his people, to all men…

1:34:56 K: So what is the question, sir? [Laughter] I’m not... Please, sir, I’m just asking, what is the question?

1:35:09 Q: [Inaudible] Isn’t that the same as Jesus Christ…

1:35:18 K: Ah, again! Again, we’re lost! Don’t compare. He says, when you talk about love and great beauty, which is... which you feel and which you show, isn’t that not the same as the love of Jesus Christ and so on. Why do you compare? Sir, find out not who has beauty and who has love, whether in you there is that thing. Discover it, find out, go into it, study, learn.

1:35:57 Please, don’t clap, it’s a waste of energy. [Laughter]

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