Krishnamurti - In the state of attention there is no observer

BA73T1 - In the state of attention there is no observer
Bangalore, India - 10 January 1973
Public Talk 1

0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s first public talk in Bangalore, 1973.

0:08 Krishnamurti: I suppose you are expecting me to talk, so I’d better do that.

0:29 We are together going to enquire into the many problems of our life. We are going to investigate the question of death, love, meditation, what is a religious mind and if there is such thing as a reality, and so on. We are together going to take a journey into all these questions, and to take a journey together there must be freedom – freedom to enquire, freedom to find out, freedom to see what is true and what is false. So, from the very beginning of these three talks we must bear in mind that we are concerned with the whole totality of existence, not a particular segment or a fragment of it, but the totality of it. 2:13 And to enquire together one must have freedom, otherwise enquiry is not possible. And you must also bear in mind very clearly and definitely that every form of authority must be set aside. And this is important because a mind that is really enquiring into the complexity of life, into the problem of death, love and sorrow, and the deep question of what is meditation, to enquire into these seriously, all sense of authority, all sense of acceptance, all forms of bigotry, belief, must be totally set aside. 3:56 And our difficulty is going to be to have a mind that is free from authority, from tradition, from any form of comparison. This is what we are going to do together.

4:28 First, we must look at the world as it is, the world that we have created, the world that is at war, the world that is utterly brutal, immoral, a world that each one of us are responsible for – the misery, the poverty, the starvation, the political corruption, the violence, the division between the rich and the poor, the absurdity of the gurus and their followers. We are going to find out for ourselves what is true and what is false, because the moment you observe and perceive, are aware of what is false then that very perception of what is false is the truth.

6:04 We have to communicate with each other, and communication means thinking together, sharing together, walking together, creating together. That is the very essence of communication, not only verbally but also non-verbally. The non-verbal path becomes much more complex unless you understand the verbal form of communication. Communication may be through a gesture, through a wave of a hand or the acceptance of a word. So we must be very clear from the beginning that we are using common words in English language. 7:34 We are using words that both you and I understand, without any jargon, without any reference to a particular book. We are going to use words that have a dictionary meaning only, a meaning that we get from reference to a word according to the dictionary. Because we are not going to employ words that have a double-meaning. So, communication between us, between you and me, the speaker, means sharing.

8:40 So it is your responsibility as well as the speaker’s that we together investigate, and to investigate you must be serious. So this is not a gathering as an entertainment – a religious entertainment or an intellectual entertainment or an entertainment to agitate your particular mind or question your little mind. So we are… [sound of aeroplane] …we are together going to enquire. So it is a responsibility, a mutual responsibility. You are not there sitting merely to listen to a talk, accepting certain ideas or rejecting certain ideas, but together we are going to share the complex problem of investigating this whole thing called living. 10:43 And to share something you must be passionate, otherwise you can’t share. You must have the same intensity, the same passion, the same urgency as the speaker has. Therefore we must meet at the same level at the same time, with the same intensity, otherwise communication is not possible. And I hope that is clear that this is not a form of entertainment, religious or intellectual, or merely to satisfy your curiosity, but we are serious people concerned with deep, serious problems of life. And together we are going to think about these problems, look at them objectively, without any bias, without any comparative knowledge of what other people have said about life. 12:15 And that is going to be awfully difficult. For most of us, having read a great many books, living a second-hand life, we are incapable of looking and finding out for ourselves what is true and what is false. So having stated that, let’s begin.

12:47 Please bear in mind that we are taking a journey together, serious people concerned deeply with life and with all the problems connected with it, people that are deeply concerned with the world as it is – the world that is corrupt, immoral, human beings that are second-hand entities that have accepted authority in all spiritual matters. So first look at the world as it is around us, not only the ecology, the environment which is being destroyed, polluted, but also a world that is overpopulated, a world divided through nationalities, a world that is broken up through religious beliefs and dogmas; those who have belief in the saviour, the redeemer, and those who have no such belief; the Hindus, the Muslims, the Germans, the Russians, and so on, with their different ideologies, with their sovereign governments, armies at war or preparing for war. 15:07 So this is exactly what the world is, the rich and the poor, those who say we know and those who say we don’t know, those who say we are enlightened and we’d teach you how to reach that enlightenment. Do you understand this?

15:30 The world is broken up, fragmented, as our minds are fragmented, broken up. And where there is division, whether it is religious, national, economic, social, there must be conflict. That is a fact. As you have had recently, a war between two countries, the Pakistan and India, one with certain beliefs, dogmas, and the other with their beliefs and dogmas and nationalism. So where there is division it is inevitable there must be conflict. So there is division in ourselves as human beings and there is division outwardly. [To technician] Leave it alone, sir, don’t bother, don’t bother. I hope we are sharing this thing together, that you see in yourself the fragmentation that exists in yourselves, as the soul and the body, the atman and the non-atman, you know, the divisions, both inwardly and outwardly. 17:38 And where there is this division there must inevitably be conflict, struggle, pain, suffering. Right, sirs? We are following this? You are not accepting what the speaker is saying. You are observing through the words of the speaker at yourself. Because we together have created this world – the misery, the confusion, the conflict, the division – because in ourselves we are fragmented, broken up.

18:36 So, seeing all this, not only objectively but inwardly, what is a human being to do? What are you to do? Follow a certain ideology? Follow certain philosophy? Philosophy means the love of truth in daily life, not an abstract truth but the love of truth in daily life. So what is a human being, confronted with all this confusion, with so many philosophers, with so many gurus, with so many sects, beliefs, traditions, each pulling in a different direction, what is a human being like you to do? 20:13 Because the house, the world is burning, and we must act. We must put the fire out, which we have brought this fire into being. Seeing all this, what is one to do? Where is one to begin? You understand the problem? Am I making the question clear? Don’t answer me, please; answer it yourself. If the question is clear, then where is one to begin – out there or out here, with oneself or with the world?

21:15 Is the world different from you? Or you are the world and the world is you, because you are the result of your environment, you are the result of your economic condition, you are the result of your tradition, of your custom, of the various beliefs, and so on – you are the result of the environment as well as the drives, the appetites, the ambitions, the greeds, out of which you have created a structure of society which is utterly, totally immoral. So you are the world and the world is you. 22:32 So, you have to begin not with something called the world, not with the brutality, the wars that exist, but you have to begin with yourself because you are the world. You have created this world, this monstrous, mad, confusing, brutal world. Right? You have to begin with yourself because you are the world and the world is you. It is not an abstraction, it is not an idea, it is a fact. We are dealing throughout these talks with facts as they are. Right.

23:38 We live on formulas and concepts and ideas. To us, ideas, concepts, formulas are very important. Our whole structure of life is based on concepts. Right? If you examine your life, you will see that your activity, your way of thinking is according to a pattern or a formula or an idea; idea being reasoned conclusion. So there is idea, a conclusion, a concept, and action. Now, we are going to deal with non-idea – which we will go into presently. If you examine your life you will see that ideas, ideals, formulas play an extraordinary part. And according to that ideal, belief, concept, you act. So there is division between the idea and the action. 25:47 Right? And this division between idea and action will inevitably bring conflict. Right? Are you following all this? Or you’re enjoying a lovely evening, sitting quietly, not paying too much attention, rather tired at the end of the day, spending most of your time in a beastly office. And you come and listen, perhaps to be entertained, to find something new to talk about, and so you give little attention. And most of us are disinclined to look at ourselves, to look and find out whether it is possible for each one to totally transform psychologically, inwardly his way of living.

27:25 Because revolution is necessary. Not the revolution with the bomb or with bloodshed; that has not produced a change in the world at all. There must be a total transformation of the human mind because we have to create a totally different kind of culture.

28:06 This country is disintegrating. You know that, don’t you? This country is becoming more and more corrupt. Corruption isn’t merely taking money or chasing women, but corruption goes much deeper. The word ‘corruption’ means to break up. That is, when the mind functions in fragments, such activity is corrupt. When you as a businessman, totally different from your religious life and your family life – that is corruption, this division between business, your religious life and your family life. You spend your days earning money and then you go to the temple to do all kinds of hysterical nonsense, and you call that living.

29:49 So life is divided: business, politics, religion, art. The artist thinks he is totally different, marvellous entity; the politician who encourages division, he sustains corruption; and the religious man, so-called religious man, who goes to the temple, cheats in one direction, frightened in another, and so on, so our life is fragmented, broken up, and that is the very essence of corruption. As we were saying, seeing what the world is and what we are, that we have made this world as it is – the agony, the suffering, the rich and the poor, the absurd, hysterical nonsense that are called religions – seeing all this and observing that one has created this oneself, the transformation must take place, a revolution inwardly must take place. 31:45 So, as we were saying, change based on an idea, a conclusion is no change at all. Because when you want to change, the pattern to which or according to which you change is determined by past events, by past memories, by past reactions. So you are really projecting a pattern of behaviour according to your reaction or according to your conditioning. Is this all becoming too difficult? May I go on? May I? All right, sirs, up to you.

33:02 As we were saying, ideas, formulas, is the way of our life. And ideas and formulas are totally different from action; they are abstractions, they are not realities. What is real is ‘what is’. ‘What is’ is action. We have to act. Now we are going to enquire, is there an action which is not based on a conclusion or on an idea? Is there an action which is non-idea? We know action which is based on idea, on a formula – that is our daily life – according to tradition, according to a norm, a conclusion, a pattern, in which is involved conformity, in which is involved authority of an idea or of a person or of a conclusion. 34:41 We are quite familiar with that. Now, we are going to enquire if there is an action which is not based on idea or a conclusion. You have understood my question? Are we journeying together, are we lost… are you losing the speaker? Am I losing you? I am afraid I am.

35:10 Questioner: No.

35:11 K: Yes, sir, because it is quite a difficult problem I am putting to you. Probably you have never thought of this before. You see, what I am trying to convey is: we have lived according to a pattern, according to some religious sanction or economic structure. All our acts, actions are based on an idea or an ideal which we have projected; an abstraction and live in that abstraction divorced from action. Right? Right. At least some of you see it. Now we are going to find out if there is an action which is not based on idea, and therefore no conflict. 36:19 That is, when there is division between idea and action there must be conflict. Because there is time interval between the idea and the action, the ‘what I should do’, ‘what I am doing’. The ‘what I should do’ is a concept, an abstraction, an idea. ‘What I do’ is actual. So there is division between the two, and where there is division there must be conflict – right? – like between Pakistan and Indians and – you know, the division. What we are trying to enquire is a way of life in which no conflict exists at all. 37:21 Because the moment there is a conflict, there is a distortion of action. Right? Where there is conflict there is the wastage of energy. Where there is conflict the mind cannot act effectively. The brain needs order to function effectively. So we are trying to find out a way of living in which conflict has completely come to an end. And conflict will exist as long as our life is based on a tradition, a belief, a prejudice, a conclusion.

38:22 Now, we are going to investigate action which is non-idea. You understand the importance of this question? Because when you observe your daily life you will see how deeply it is in conflict, how deeply there is the struggle, the war in ourselves, between what should be done, what is being done, what we should think and what you think. It is this time interval between the idea and action that brings conflict. We are meeting each other? We are trying to eliminate the time lag between idea and action so that there is action all the time without the idea. 39:50 I wonder if you are getting this? Please do get this, it’s most important. Because on this, if you really understand this, not verbally but actually, you will then proceed to act all the time instantly. I am going to go into this, because to me this is one of the fundamental necessities of life, to live a life without a breath of conflict. And all our lives are based on conflict. It is not the opposite what we are talking about, that is, conflict and non-conflict.

40:59 The non-conflict is not the opposite of conflict. You understand? Because there is no opposite. There is only ‘what is’. Let me explain this a little bit. There is only violence, which we all know – violence not only with a gesture, a word, a slap or throwing a bomb or hurting another, but there is all kinds of violence. There is the violence of conformity. There is the violence of imitation. There is the violence of obedience. There is the violence of accepting authority. 42:06 All these forms of violence. The fact is that you are violent. That is a fact, that is ‘what is’. The non-fact is the non-violence. When the violent mind tries to become non-violent, in that becoming there is conflict. Which means he is avoiding the conflict. Therefore he becomes a hypocrite. You are following all this? The man who says, ‘I am trying to be non-violent,’ he is really a hypocrite because he is violent. He is pretending not to be violent. So, the fact is violence. 43:03 Can that violence be totally wiped away instantly? And we are going to go into that. Do you understand my question clearly? I hope I have conveyed this thing clearly. So, there is action based on idea, conclusion, a pattern, which breeds conflict. We are trying to find out a way of life in which conflict in every form disappears. And this way of life is not the opposite of it. This way of life is by itself not a reaction or an opposite of violence.

44:15 So we have to enquire into what is attention. You understand? Oh, Lord! There is so much to be talked about. Doesn’t matter, we will go into it. Attention is a quality of mind in which there is observation without the observer. Right? Attention – I must go into this question of attention in order to find out a way of life in which there will be no conflict, so that idea is non-action. So we must go into this question of attention. 45:44 What is attention? Attention is a state of mind, isn’t it, when you observe without the thinker interfering in the observation. I’ll show it to you. When you observe that tree or a cloud, or the poor man or the rich man, or when you observe yourself, you are observing through the screen of your conceit, your pride, your conditioning. Right? So you are not observing. You are observing through a screen. The screen is your knowledge of the past. 46:52 The observer is the past. So when there is an observation, the observer is looking with the eyes of the past. And the past is the memory, the past is the knowledge, is the experience. So, through the past he is looking at the present, and therefore modifying the present which becomes the future. Are you following all this? Shall I go on? We are moving together? Yes? Do say yes or no for goodness sake.

47:40 Because I would rather walk with you than walk by myself in this matter, because we are together understanding this extraordinary problem of life. We are together trying to resolve it, trying to resolve our suffering, trying to find a way of life in which there is no violence, a way of life in which every form of authority comes to an end, so that we are human beings, not second-hand human beings, we are totally individuals, not the individuals opposed to community. The word ‘individual’ means indivisible entity, an entity who is not broken up. That is what is an individual. And to go into this question of a life without conflict, one must understand this question of attention. 49:21 Attention is not concentration. Concentration implies division; the entity that has determined to concentrate. In the desire to concentrate there is the action of will, which is exclusive. It builds a barrier. It says, ‘I must only think along this line, concentrate on this,’ and the mind wanders off and you pull it back. This game you can go on playing for the rest of your life, and that leads nowhere. So, attention is not concentration. So we are going to enquire into what is attention.

50:24 In attention, in the state of attention there is no division as the observer and the observed. And the division exists only when the observer is different from the thing observed. Sir, keep it very simple. When you look at the speaker, which you are doing now, you are looking at the speaker with the reputation that you have built about him. Right? You don’t know the speaker. You don’t know what kind of life he leads but you have already imagined through various books and all the rest of that business what he is. 51:40 So, you have come to a conclusion, an opinion, a reputation which you have collected and through that image you are looking. Right? You are looking at the speaker through the image that you have built about him. So the image is different from the person, from the speaker. So, to look or to listen to the speaker you have to have no image. Right? This is simple isn’t it? That is, when you attend to something totally there is no image at all. The image-maker is totally absent. The image-maker is the observer, the thinker, the experiencer. 52:55 And the thinker, the observer, the experiencer is different from the experience, the thought and the experience. So, there is division in the observer and the thing observed. And the division exists as long as there is an image. Right? If I have an image about you and you have an image about me, our relationship is based on images, which is an abstraction and not real. I wonder if you see all this. Right? So in the state of attention there is no observer. You do this and you will find out.

54:01 Now, when there is this attention, action is instantaneous and not based on an idea, and therefore no conflict. You have understood this? Look, sir, you act instantly when you see danger, don’t you? When you see a snake, a dangerous snake, your action is instantaneous. That action is based on a conclusion that all snakes are dangerous. So you respond to a conditioning. Right? Whereas we are talking about an action which is not based on a conditioning. And this action comes into being when there is complete attention. 55:13 That is, sir, put it differently: you are hearing, listening to what is being said. When you listen to what is being said, either you are comparing what is being said to what already you know, to what you have read. So, when you are comparing, you are not listening. Right? So listening implies a state of attention in which you are not comparing, you are not judging. You are actually giving your whole attention to the act of listening. When you give that attention to listening, there is no listener, there is only listening. 56:27 I wonder if you get this. All right. Sir, I want to tell you something and I say to you, please, it is very important that you listen completely, listen with your heart, with your mind, with your brain, with your nerves, so that your whole attention is given to it. And you say, ‘I don’t know how to do that, tell me how to do it.’ What you are asking is, ‘Tell me how to attain that state of attention in which the observer is not.’ And you think you can get that through practise. 57:38 Right? The practise is the mechanical desire to attain that state. So there is a contradiction between the fact that you are not listening and the desire to listen. So there is conflict. Right? What we are saying is, there is action when… in which idea is totally absent, and that comes into being only when you are completely attentive.

58:33 And there is no way to be attentive. There is no practise to be attentive. Either you are attentive or not attentive. What is important is not how to be attentive but be aware when you are not attentive. You get it? Be aware when you are not attentive. Are you attentive now when you are listening? You are listening now; are you attentive? Or you are partly attentive and the greater part is not attentive? So, give your attention to the greater part which is not attentive; don’t bother about being attentive. When you give your attention to the act of not being attentive then you will see that that very act of being attentive to not being attentive is attention. Do you get all this?

1:00:01 You see, our difficulty in communication in this matter is that we are not prepared to let go. We are so mechanical in our way of thinking. If anything new is put to you, it is very, very difficult for you to say, ‘Let me look.’ You want to translate what you see in terms of what you already know, and so become mechanical. Whereas attention is non-mechanical and therefore cannot be practised. 1:00:48 What you practise is always mechanical. Attention is non-mechanical. Therefore a mind that is completely attentive is acting all the time without a conclusion. That brings up the question, which is, what is learning and what is acquiring knowledge? May I go on with this or are you tired? We are sharing together or are you merely listening to what is being said?

1:01:41 What is the function of knowledge? There is technological knowledge, in which is included scientific knowledge, biological, geographical, historical knowledge. What is the function of knowledge? And what is learning? We know learning as the means of acquiring knowledge. Right? That is, I learn a language and acquire knowledge about that language. It is stored up in the brain and it is used when I speak French, Italian, Spanish, or Urdu, whatever it is. 1:02:44 That is, there is this storing up of knowledge, which is necessary when you speak a particular language or when you function technologically. So knowledge is necessary and you see how that knowledge is acquired. So knowledge is a mechanical process. Right? Are you understanding all this? That is, I learn how to ride a bicycle or how to drive a car, do this or that, and to do that I must practice riding a bicycle two or three days, or falling and picking up again, going on. 1:03:36 Then I have learnt, or the body has learnt how to balance itself on two wheels. That is acquiring knowledge. And the function of knowledge is being mechanical, to do things mechanically. And learning is something entirely different from the acquisition of knowledge. Learning is a constant movement which is non-mechanical. I wonder… Now, look. Phew!

1:04:27 Look, sir, let me put it this way: relationship in life is the most important thing, because without relationship life is not. Without relationship, you cannot exist. You may withdraw into isolation but even in that isolation you are related. You may become a sannyasi or a monk but you still are related. You may have cut out… cut your relationship with the world but you are still inwardly related – to your tradition, to your past, to your conclusions, to your hope, you are related. 1:05:24 So relationship in life is the most important thing. Relationship means contact. Relationship means a movement between two people or half a dozen people or a community. Now, when you have a relationship with another – wife, husband, girl, boy, whatever it is – that relationship is based on an image. Have you noticed it? Right? We are stating only facts, sir, not conclusions, not ideas, just facts. Your relationship with another is based on your image about her and she about you. That’s a fact. 1:06:36 So the relationship is between these two images and not between you and the other. Right? So, when you give attention in your relationship there is no image-making at all. It is only when the mind is inattentive, not attentive, images are formed. Look, sir, you call another or call me an idiot, a fool. The brain reacts to that word and remembers that insult. Then it has formed an image about you who is unfriendly to me. So the image is built when I am not giving full attention to your insult. 1:07:50 When I give full attention to your insult then I watch very closely whether what you are saying is true or false – observe. Then in that observation there is no image-making – you probably are right that I am a fool. So there is no image. So in the state of attention there is no image-making at all, and therefore relationship becomes extraordinarily real. So this state of attention is action without an idea, and therefore no conflict. I wonder if you get this.

1:08:50 Q: Attention to whom, please?

1:08:52 K: What, sir?

1:08:53 Q: Attention to whom?

1:08:55 K: Good God! You have not understood at all. Sir, look, please understand the reason of this attention, why there must be this quality of attention. I am going to go into it again. Isn’t your life a strife, a conflict, a suffering, anxious, fearful – isn’t it? Now, there is a division between you and fear, isn’t there? No? When you say, ‘I am ambitious, I want to reach that.’ So there is the entity that says, ‘I must get to that position.’ 1:10:07 So there is a division between the entity and the desire to achieve a certain result. This division is conflict, isn’t it? In which there is frustration, there is hope, there is sense of fear, and so on, which are all conflicts. Now we are trying to find a way of living in which – not ‘trying’. There is a way of living in which there is no conflict, and to find that out we are saying you have to understand the meaning of that word ‘attention’. 1:10:50 There is no entity who is attending or attending about something but the quality of attention. You understand? It is not what you are attending about or attending to, or who is attending, but the state of attention, the quality of attention, which is totally different from the attention about or towards something. Is this clear? We are saying, when that quality of attention comes into being conflict altogether ceases.

1:11:41 Because in that attention there are no opposites. There is only ‘what is’. There is only violence. And – please listen to this – and when there is only ‘what is’, then you have all the energy which has been dissipated when you are trying to overcome it or go beyond it or suppress it or control it. When you are completely attentive then the ‘what is’ is transformed. Are we journeying together or you’ve lost me? Or have I lost you, probably? So, sir, looking at the world, the misery, the confusion, the violence, a life that is spent in such futility, a life that is spent forty years in an office, a life of conflict, a life that is always at war within itself, which becomes the external war, seeing all that, the human mind demands that there must be, if it is at all serious, that there must be transformation, a total revolution in the mind. 1:13:41 And this revolution is not based on an idea, a conclusion. Such revolutions have existed before – the communist revolution based on an idea, the State, other forms of physical revolutions based on some logical conclusive patterns, which have always produced conflict in man. But we are saying now is that there is a life, a life that can be lived now, every day of your life, in which conflict doesn’t exist at all. Therefore there is a flowering of goodness in attention. And that flowering of goodness is the only thing that is going to bring about radical revolution in the world, and therefore a different culture. 1:14:53 Right?

1:14:55 Now, if you want to ask questions, please do. It is only seven o’clock.

1:15:07 Q: In this attention, does the subject and object become one, the observer and the observed?

1:15:16 K: I said that, sir. I said just now. Sir, you don’t have to ask me those questions. You can do it yourself. When you look at something, sir…

1:15:26 Q: The opposites meet…

1:15:27 K: Wait – just listen to it, sir, if you will kindly just listen. When you look at something – the cloud, the beauty of a cloud, the light of the evening on it, the fullness of it, the extraordinary quality of that cloud – when you observe it, do you observe it as an observer outside looking at it or do you observe without the observer? What do you actually do? You observe it, don’t you, by naming it as a cloud?

1:16:20 Q: [Inaudible]

1:16:24 K: This is, sir… Just listen to it please. You look at it by naming it – don’t you? – by saying how beautiful it is, or not paying attention at all. So when you look… Sir, it is so simple. When you look at your wife, have you ever looked at your wife? [Laughter] No, no, please don’t laugh. Actually, have you ever looked at her?

1:16:58 Q: [Inaudible]

1:17:00 K: Or have you looked at her through the image you have built about her – her nagging, her pleasure, sexual, this or that, which you have built up through ten years or ten days or forty years. Through that image you are looking at her, aren’t you? Oh, be honest, for God’s sake, be honest. [Laughter]

1:17:30 Q: [Inaudible]

1:17:31 K: Wait, sir, listen to it. Listen. You look at her, you look at her through your prejudices, through your hurts, through your annoyances, through your pleasures, sex or otherwise, to your comfort. You have the image about that person.

1:17:46 Q: I do not have the image, only part of the mind has the image.

1:17:52 K: You may have only part of the image in your part of your mind. So you are only looking at her partially. For God’s sake! But can you look at her without the image? And when you do look at her or him without the image, what takes place? Is that not love? Is not that totally different, that love from pleasure? Find out, sir, investigate. You are used to being told do this, do that, but you have never entered into this problem of first-hand discovery. 1:18:57 Find out for yourself and not repeat what anybody says. You know, sirs, it would be a marvellous thing never to say a word that you do not know yourself, never to repeat a sentence of another. And this is what we are trying to… this must be done because we are trying to bring about – not ‘trying’ – we are bringing about a different culture, a culture which is not based on idea, confusion, conflict. Your culture is dead, gone, finished.

1:19:49 Q: What is the place of thought?

1:20:02 Q: Sir, I understood everything you said, but you see, after this lecture… [inaudible]

1:20:24 K: Yes, sir, yes, sir, I understand, sir, I understand.

1:20:32 Q: [Inaudible]

1:20:34 K: Sir, please.

1:20:36 Q: [Inaudible]

1:20:37 K: Sir, please, you have said it. You have said it. I have understood your question. The questioner says, as long as I am here I am fairly attentive but the moment I leave I have to go to my home, tomorrow to my office…

1:21:04 Q: [Inaudible]

1:21:05 K: Yes, sir, I am repeating your question, sir. [Laughter]

1:21:14 Q: [Inaudible]

1:21:17 K: As long as I am listening and I am here, I am fairly attentive, I understand what that means. But when I leave here and go home, face all the problems of a home – children, wife and so on – and also tomorrow morning when I have to go to the office, be insulted, called by this, doing some stupid things which I don’t want to do, then I lose this attention. What am I to do. Is that the question, sir?

1:22:02 Q: Yes, sir.

1:22:06 K: Yes, all right. That’s it. [Laughter] So you have divided life, listening to a talk and being attentive or understanding during that talk, and divided that from your home, from your office, from your daily life. This is false. You are not attentive here now. [Laughter] If you… Don’t please laugh; this is too serious what we are talking about. It is a matter of tears not of laughter. You think you are attentive here but you are not. If you know, if you understand the quality of attention, then it’ll happen wherever you are. It will happen when you are at home talking to your wife. 1:23:25 Then you are completely attentive. In your office you will be attentive, whether they insult you, whether somebody passes you by or you don’t get the job, and so on – you are attentive. Sir, that is where you have to learn. Learning, as I said, is not the accumulation of knowledge. Saying to yourself, ‘I must be attentive,’ and repeat that mechanically, which becomes knowledge. But if you are attentive when you are not attentive then it is non-mechanical. You can do that at any moment, at any place, at any time.

1:24:18 Q: What is creation, sir?

1:24:32 K: What is creation – is that it?

1:24:40 Q: Yes, sir.

1:24:49 K: Would you consider the flowering of goodness creation? Would you consider a painting for a motive a creation? Would you consider giving birth to a baby a creation? What is a creative mind? A mind that has no conflict, a mind that has never been hurt, a mind that knows the function of knowledge and is free to learn, to observe. In that state of freedom is creation. I don’t think you understand, sir. Look, sir, you may know a great deal about a piston engine, combustion engine, you might know a great deal, because you probably have run it, taken it to pieces and put it together. 1:26:22 But if you want to find out if there is another, or a different way, or different machine, or different movement which is non-combustion, then there must be freedom from the known so as to enquire into the unknown. You understand? There must be freedom, and in that freedom is creation. I don’t think you understand.

1:26:59 Q: [Inaudible]

1:27:03 K: Sir, who created all this? Who created you, your father and your mother? Who created the world? You would like to think God created it. You would like to think some external agency has created this terrible misery, injustice. You have created this and you are unwilling to face it because when you face it you can do something about it. And you refuse to do something about it. You want the politician, the social worker, the reformer to do something. You are unwilling to take the responsibility and work at yourself and change. 1:27:59 And that is why you ask these irrelevant questions. When you are concerned about sorrow, in which you are caught, and you talk about everything else but the stream in which you are caught or the trap in which you are held – that leads to dishonesty. And we need tremendous integrity to find out a life without conflict, and therefore a life that is completely peaceful. This is real meditation, sirs, not your phoney meditations.

1:28:55 Q: Sir, meditation is all right, but the question I asked, I didn’t get sufficient satisfaction… [inaudible] What I should do in the office, what I should do in the house... [inaudible]

1:29:18 K: I have explained it, sir. Sir, sir, sir, sir, don’t gesture so much. Don’t gesture.

1:29:28 Q: [Inaudible]

1:29:30 K: I’ve answered it, sir. I said very clearly, when you are attentive now – you know what it means – then you can be attentive at home also.

1:29:50 Q: Sir, the question of what is fear, how can we find the end of fear?

1:30:00 K: Fear. I think, sir, we will deal with that question, if we may, Saturday evening, shall we? Because it is now quarter past seven.

1:30:13 Q: [Inaudible]

1:30:21 K: I can’t hear, sir.

1:30:23 Q: [Inaudible]

1:30:25 K: I will repeat the question, sir.

1:30:31 Q: [Inaudible]

1:30:40 K: Sir, sir, look, look, just listen. Please be a little bit polite, sir, patience. At the end of the talk, sir, I said, will you please ask questions. I asked – they didn’t ask. What is the question, sir?

1:31:06 Q: [Inaudible]

1:31:10 Q: [Inaudible]

1:31:16 K: I think we had better stop now, and…

1:31:19 Q: When you say that first we must start by working on ourselves – yes? – what do you mean by ourselves? Do you mean some inward condition or the total of what is around us, what we perceive, everything?

1:31:33 K: The questioner says, when you look at yourself, study yourself, what is ourselves. Is that the question, sir?

1:31:43 Q: Yes, that’s closer. What are we meant to be working on when we work on ourselves?

1:31:49 K: What is your self? The questioner says, would you please go into this question of what is you, what are you. What are you, sir? You are your environment, aren’t you? You are the result of your parents, the heredity, the tradition, the result of many, many influences – economic, social, cultural, religious. You are all that.

1:32:30 Q: When you say that I am the result of my parents… [inaudible]

1:32:36 K: I can’t hear, sir. Look, it’s time, because people are going.

1:32:40 Q: When you say that one is the result of one’s parents… [inaudible]

1:32:48 K: I can’t hear, sir.

1:32:49 Q: [Inaudible]

1:32:52 Q: Come closer.

1:32:54 Q: [Inaudible]

1:32:57 K: Speak a little louder, sir.

1:32:59 Q: Yes, I’m trying to. It sounds like ideas again, you know?

1:33:16 K: I think we better stop now and continue on Saturday evening. Right, sir.

🢁