BK69T2 - Thought sustains fear and pleasure home
Berkeley, California - 4 February 1969
Public Talk 2

Audio without subtitles on YouTube. Instead, the transcript from kfoundation.org is used.

Text-only version

0:19 Krishnamurti: If we may, we will continue with what we were talking about yesterday.
0:33 I’m sure many of us must have asked, considering the chaos, the disorder, not only outwardly but also inwardly, seeing all this misery, starvation, war, hatred, brutality, the utter lack of love, one must have asked, I’m quite sure, what one can do. What, as a human being confronted with this confusion, what can I or you do?
1:36 When we put that question, we feel we must be committed to some kind of action, a political, an ideological or sociological, or some kind of religious search, discovery, and action. One feels one must be committed, and as one goes throughout the world, this desire to be committed has become very important. Either one is an activist or one withdraws from all this social chaos, injustice, war, and goes off into some kind of vision, pursuit of some vision. I think it is far more important not to be committed at all, but to be totally involved in the whole structure and nature of life. 3:30 When you commit yourself, you are committed to a part, and therefore the part becomes important and creates division, whereas when one is involved completely, totally, wholly with the whole problem of living, then action is entirely different. Then action is not only inward but outward. That is, action then is in relationship with the whole problem of life. To be involved implies total relationship with every problem, with every thought, feeling, of the human mind. And when we are so completely involved in life and not committed to any particular part of life or any fragment of life, then one has to see what actually as a human being one can do.
5:56 For most of us action is, or is derived from an idea, from an ideology. First, we have an idea what we should do; the idea being an ideology, a concept, a formula. Having formulated what we should do, act according to that formula, according to that ideology. So there is always a division and hence conflict between action and what you have formulated action should be. And as most of our life is a series of conflicts, struggles, one inevitably asks oneself whether one can live, not in some remote, isolated monastery but whether one can live in this world, being completely involved with it.
7:41 And this inevitably brings about another question, which is: what is relationship? Because that is what we are involved in, man in relationship with another man — that is the whole of life. If there was no relationship at all, if one actually lived in isolation completely, life would cease. Life is a movement in relationship, and to understand that relationship and to end the conflict in that relationship is our entire problem. Whether then man can live at peace, not only within himself but also outwardly. 9:11 Because then behaviour is righteousness. And we are concerned with behaviour which is action.
9:29 And perhaps you might ask — one does ask inevitably — what can one individual, one human being confronted with this immense problem of life, with its confusion, wars, hatreds, agony, suffering, what can one human being do to bring about a change, a revolution, a radical state, a new way of looking, living? I think that is a wrong question, to say, ‘What can I do to affect this total confusion, disorder?
10:25 If you put that question, ‘What can I do confronted with this disorder?
10:32 then you have already answered the problem — you can’t do anything. Therefore it is a wrong question. But if you are concerned, not what you can do confronted with this enormity of misery, but what can you do, how can you live a totally different life, then you will find your relationship with man, with the whole of community, with the world, undergoes quite a different change. Because after all, you and I as human beings, we are the entire world. I’m not saying this rhetorically but actually. 11:43 I and you are the entire world. What I think, what I feel — the agony, the suffering, the ambition, the envy, the extraordinary confusion one is in — that’s the world. And to bring about a radical revolution in the world — and there must be change in the world — one can’t live as one is living, a bourgeois life, a life of superficiality, a life of shoddy existence from day to day, indifferent to what is happening. And if I, as a human being, and you as a human being, can change totally, then whatever we do then will be righteous. 13:07 Then that will not bring about conflict within ourselves and therefore outwardly.
13:15 So that is the problem, and that is what the speaker wants to talk over with you this evening. Because as we said, behaviour, how one conducts one’s life, what one does — daily life, not at the moment of great crisis; actually every day — is of the highest importance. Therefore, relationship is life and this relationship is a constant movement, a constant change.
14:25 So, our question is, how am I, or you, to change so fundamentally so that tomorrow morning you wake up as a different human being, meeting any problem that arises, resolve it instantly and not carry it over as a burden, so that there is great love in one’s heart, you see the beauty of the hills and the light on the water? And to bring about this change obviously one must understand oneself, knowing oneself — self-knowledge, self-knowing. Because without knowing yourself… not theoretically but actually, whatever you are, is of the highest importance.
16:07 [Coughs] Sorry. I haven’t got the Asiatic Flu. I don’t propose to have it.
16:42 You know, when one is confronted with all these problems, one is deeply moved — not by words, not by the description; because the word is not the thing, the description is not the described. And when one observes oneself as one actually is then either one is moved to despair, because one considers oneself as hopeless, ugly, miserable, or one looks at oneself without any judgment. And to look at oneself without any judgment is of the highest importance, because that’s the only way you can understand yourself or learn about yourself. 18:28 And in observing oneself — which is not a process of self-centredness or self-isolation or cutting oneself off from the whole of mankind or from another human being — in observing oneself so objectively one realises how terribly one is conditioned — by the economic pressures, by the culture in which one has lived, by the climate, by the food one eats, by the propaganda of churches, so-called religious organisations everlastingly talking about God, as the communist propaganda — one realises how deeply one is conditioned. 19:58 And this conditioning is not only superficial but it goes down very deeply. And so one asks whether one can ever be free of this conditioning, because if one is not free then one is a slave, one then lives in this incessant conflict, incessant battle, which has become the accepted way of life.
20:45 I hope you are listening to the speaker, not merely to the words he is saying, but using the words as a mirror you are observing yourself. Then you will see the description is never the described, the word is never the thing. Therefore, communication then between the speaker and yourself becomes entirely different, then we are dealing with facts and not suppositions or opinions or judgments. Then we are both concerned with this problem of how the mind can be unconditioned, changed completely. And, as we said, this understanding of oneself is only possible in becoming aware of our relationship. 22:33 In relationship alone one can observe oneself, because it’s in relationship that all the reactions, all the conditions are exposed.
22:57 So in relationship one becomes aware of the actual state of oneself. And, as one observes, one becomes aware of this immense problem of fear. Because one observes the mind is always demanding to be certain, to be secure, to be safe. A mind that is safe, secure, is a bourgeois mind, is a shoddy little mind, and yet that’s what all of us want, to be completely safe; and there is no such thing psychologically. Outwardly, see what takes place — quite interesting if you observe it — each person wants to be safe, secure, and yet he does everything psychologically to bring about his own destruction — because you can see this. 24:40 As long as there are nationalities, with their sovereign governments, with their armies and navies and so on, all that messy business, there must be war. And yet psychologically our conditioning is to accept that we are a particular group, a particular nation, belonging to a particular ideology or religion. I do not know if you have ever observed what mischief the religious organisations have done in the world, actually how they have divided man — you are a Catholic, I am a Protestant. To us, the label is much more important than the actual state of affection, love, kindliness. 25:59 Nations have divided us, nationalities have divided us. So we can observe this division, which is our conditioning. And this division brings about this fear.
26:23 So, we are going to go into this question of what to do with fear. Unless we resolve this fear business, we live in darkness, we live in violence. A man that is not afraid is not aggressive. The man that has no sense of fear of any kind is really a free man, is really a peaceful man, and as a human being we must resolve it, because if we cannot, we cannot possibly live righteously. And without understanding behaviour, conduct, in which is involved virtue — though we may spit on that word — unless one is totally free of fear, mind can never discover what is truth, what is bliss, if there is such a thing as a timeless state. 28:19 And when there is fear, you might want to… you do escape, and that escape is quite absurd, immature. So, we have this problem of fear. And can the mind be free of it entirely, both at the conscious as well as the so-called unconscious, at the deeper levels of the mind? That is what we are going to talk about this evening because without understanding this question of fear and resolving it, mind can never be free. And therefore it is only in freedom that you can explore, discover. So it’s very important, it’s essential that the mind be free of fear. 29:29 So we are going to go into it.
29:33 Now, first of all, do please bear in mind that the description is not the described, so don’t be caught by the description or by the word. The word, the description, is merely a means of communicating, but if you’re held by the word, by the description, you cannot go very far. So one has to be aware not only of the meaning of the word but also realise that the word is not actually the thing. So what is fear? And I hope we are going to do it together; you don’t just, please, listen and just disregard it. 30:45 Take… be involved entirely in it, because it’s your fear, it’s not mine. So, we are taking a journey together into this very complex problem of fear. Because if one doesn’t understand it, be free of it, then relationship is not possible; then relationship is conflict, is travail, is misery.
31:33 So what is fear? One is afraid of the past or of the present or of something that might happen tomorrow. Fear involves time. Right? I am… one is afraid of death — that is in the future — or one is afraid of something that has happened, or one is afraid of the pain one has had when one was ill. Please follow this closely. So fear implies time – afraid of something, some pain that one has had, and afraid that it might happen again. Or one is afraid of something that might take place tomorrow, in the future. 33:10 Or one is afraid of the present. All that involves time. If there was no yesterday, today or tomorrow, psychologically speaking, there would be no fear. That is, fear is not only of time, but fear is the product of thought. That is, thinking about what happened yesterday, which was not pleasant, which was painful, and thinking that it might happen again tomorrow, thought produces this fear. Are we following each other? Please this is very important that we follow what is being said, otherwise we’ll miss — you’ll be going south and I’ll be going north.
34:38 So, thought breeds fear — thinking about the pain, thinking about death, thinking about the frustrations, the fulfilments, what might happen, what should be, and so on – thought produces fear, as thought gives vitality to the continuance of fear. And thought also, by thinking about that which has given you pleasure yesterday, thinking about it sustains that pleasure, gives it a duration. So, thought produces, sustains, nourishes, not only fear but also pleasure. You are following all this? Right? 35:57 Can I go on? Because, please, observe it in yourself, see what actually goes on within you. You’ve had a so-called enjoyable, pleasurable experience, and you think about it, you want it repeated, whether it is sex or any other experience. Thinking about that thing which has given a pleasurable moment, you want that pleasure repeated, continued. So, thought is not only responsible for pleasure but also for fear. Right? So one asks then, seeing the truth of this — that’s the actual fact, that thought sustains pleasure and thought nourishes fear – so, thought breeds both fear and pleasure; the two are not separate. 37:45 Where there is the demand for pleasure there must be also fear. The two are inevitable because they are both the product of thought. Right? Can we go on?
38:05 Please, let’s bear in mind that I am not persuading you to anything. I’m not doing a propaganda — God forbid — because if you are doing a propaganda, it’s a lie. If one is trying to convince you of something, don’t be convinced. Because we are dealing with something much more serious than being convinced or offering opinions and judgments. We are dealing with realities, with facts. And fact, when you observe, doesn’t need an opinion. You haven’t got to be told what the fact is; it is there if you are capable of observing.
39:01 So one sees that thought sustains and nourishes fear as well as pleasure. We want pleasure continued; we want pleasure more and more. The ultimate pleasure for man is to find out if there is such permanent state in heaven, which is God. To him, God is the highest form of pleasure. And if you observe, all social morality, which is really immoral, is based on pleasure and fear, reward and punishment. So one asks, when one sees this actual fact — not the description, not the word, but the thing described, the actual state of how thought brings about this — then one asks: is it possible for thought to come to an end? 40:48 The question sounds rather crazy, rather cockeyed, but it’s not. That is, you saw a sunset yesterday evening. The hills were so extraordinarily lighted with the evening sun, and there was glory, beauty. That gave you great enjoyment. And to enjoy it so completely so that thought doesn’t carry it over for tomorrow; or face fear — if there is such thing as fear, which we’ll go into presently — so completely that it has ended. And this is only possible when you understand the whole structure and nature of thought.
42:13 So one asks: what is thinking? And to most of us, thinking has become extraordinarily important. We never realise thought is always old; thought is never new. Thought can never be free. Talking about freedom of thought — which is sheer nonsense — which means you may express what you want or say what you like, but thought in itself is never free, because thought is the response of memory. You can observe this for oneself — thought is the response of memory, experience, knowledge. Knowledge, experience, memory is always old. 43:33 And so thought is always old, and therefore thought can never see anything new. And we have this problem of fear, and can the mind look at it without the interference of thought? Right, are you following this? You understand, sirs? I am afraid; there is fear of what one has done. Be completely aware of it without the interference of thought. And then is there fear? As we said, fear is brought about through time; time is thought. This is not a philosophy, not some mystical experience. Just observe it in yourself, you will see.
44:57 So, one realises thought must function objectively, efficiently, logically, healthily. When you go to the office, when you do anything, thought must operate, otherwise you cannot do anything. But the moment thought brings or sustains pleasure and fear, then thought becomes inefficient. Right? Thought then breeds inefficiency in relationship, and therefore conflict. So one asks whether there is an ending to thought in one direction, and thought functioning at its highest capacity. And we are concerned whether thought can be absent when I… when the mind sees the sunset in all its beauty. 46:45 And it’s only then that you see the beauty of the sunset, not when your mind is full of thought, problems, worries, concern. That is, at the moment of seeing the sunset, thought is absent, if you have observed it. You look at this extraordinary light on the mountain; it’s a great delight. And at that moment thought has no place in it at all. But the next moment thought says, ‘How marvellous that was, how beautiful,
47:58 ‘I wish I could paint it,
48:01 ‘I wish I could write a poem about it,
48:06 ‘I wish I could tell my friends what a lovely thing it was.
48:12 Or thought says, ‘I would like to see that sunset again tomorrow.
48:21 So then thought begins its mischief, because then thought says, ‘Tomorrow I will have that pleasure again.
48:41 And when you don’t have it there is pain.
48:48 It is very simple, and because of its very simplicity it gets lost. Because we all want to be terribly clever. You’re all so terribly sophisticated or very, very intellectual, because we read such a lot. Personally, I haven’t read any psychological book or any serious book about philosophy or about religion. I occasionally read a detective book. But the whole history of mankind — not who was the king and what kinds of wars, and all the absurdity of nationalities — but within oneself the whole history of man, psychological history of man, is. 49:58 And when you know, when you can read that in yourself, you have understood. Then you are a light to yourself, then there is no authority, then you are actually free.
50:17 So, our question then is: can thought not interfere? And it is this interference that produces time. You understand, sir? There is death. I’m not going to discuss death this evening, which is quite an extraordinary problem in itself. There is great beauty in it, and that beauty of what is involved in death is not possible to understand if there is any form of fear. So, we are just showing how frightened we are of death, because it might happen in the future; and it is inevitable. So thought thinks about it and shuts it out, or thought thinks about the fear that you have had, the pain, the anxiety, and it might be repeated. 51:42 So we are caught by the mischief of thought. And also one realises the extraordinary importance of thought — when you go to the office, when you do any technological thing you must use thought, you must use knowledge.
52:16 So, seeing the whole process of this, from the beginning of this talk till now, seeing the whole of that, one asks: can thought be silent? And to look at the sunset and to completely be involved in the beauty of that sunset, without thought bringing into it the question of pleasure.
53:06 So, conduct then — please follow this — conduct then becomes righteous. Conduct becomes virtuous only when thought doesn’t cultivate what it considers virtue, which then becomes unholy, which becomes ugly. So, virtue is not of time or of thought, which means virtue is not a product of pleasure or of fear. And so the question then now is: how is it possible to look at the sunset without thought weaving round it pleasure or pain? That is, can one look at the sunset with such attention, with such complete involvement in that beauty, so when you have seen that sunset it is over and not taken over by thought as pleasure for tomorrow? 55:17 You understand what I’m…? Are we communicating with each other? Are we? I don’t know.
55:32 Audience: Yes, yes.
55:33 K: Good, I’m glad. It’s all right, sir. I hope so. Don’t be quick in answering yes [laughter], because this is quite a difficult problem. This needs, sir — to watch the sunset without the interference of thought demands tremendous discipline. Not the discipline of conformity, not the discipline of suppression or control. The word ‘discipline’ means ‘to learn’, not to conform, not to obey — to learn. And to learn about the whole process of thinking, its place, and the negation of thought, needs great observation. 56:44 And to observe there must be freedom. And so one learns the movement of thought, and learning is then active. And what do we mean by learning?
57:26 You know, when one goes to school or a college one learns a great deal of information, perhaps of not great importance but one learns. And that becomes the knowledge, and from that knowledge we act either technologically, in the technological field, or in the field of… the whole field of consciousness. So one must understand very deeply what that word means, ‘to learn’. The word ‘to learn’ means, obviously, it’s an active present. There is a learning all the time. But when that learning has become… is a means of accumulation of knowledge then it is quite a different thing. 58:43 Do you understand? That is, I have learned from past experience that fire burns; that’s the knowledge. I have learned, therefore I won’t go near the fire. I have ceased to learn when there is the knowledge that fire burns — which doesn’t mean I am going to burn myself. And most of us, having learned, we act from there. Which is, having gathered information about ourselves or about another, which becomes the knowledge, knowledge about ourselves, then that knowledge becomes almost static, and from that we act. 59:50 Therefore, action becomes… is always old.
59:57 So learning is something entirely different. One has learnt — if one has listened this evening with attention — one has learnt the nature of fear and pleasure. Learning — one is learning. Or you have learnt, and say… and from that act. You see the difference I hope. Learning implies a constant action. There is learning all the time, and in the act, the very act of learning is doing. The doing is not separate from learning. Whereas for most of us, the doing is separate from the knowledge. 1:01:09 Which is, there is the ideology or the ideal, and according to that ideal we act, in approximating the action according to that ideal. Therefore action is always old. So, learning, like seeing, is a great art.
1:01:49 You know, when you see a flower, what takes place? Do you see the flower actually or do you see the flower through the image you have of that flower? The two things are entirely different. When you look at a flower, at a colour, without naming it, without like or dislike, without any screen between you and the thing you see as the flower, without the word, without thought, then the flower has an extraordinary colour, beauty. But when you look at the flower through botanical knowledge, say that it is the rose, you have already conditioned your look. 1:03:03 So seeing and learning is quite an art. You don’t go to college to learn it; you can do it at home. You can look at a flower and find out how you look at it. If you are sensitive, alive, watching, then you will see the space between you and the flower disappears. Therefore when that space disappears, you see the thing so vitally, so strongly. In the same way, when you observe yourself without that space as the observer and the thing observed, then you will see there is no contradiction and therefore no conflict.
1:04:14 So, in seeing the structure of fear, one also sees the structure and nature of pleasure. And the seeing is the learning about it, therefore mind is not caught in the pursuit of pleasure. And then life has quite a different meaning. One lives not in search of pleasure.
1:05:07 Right, sirs.
1:05:22 Wait a minute, madame, before you ask questions.
1:05:31 You know, I would like to ask you a question: what have you got out of this talk? Don’t answer me, please. C’est qu’il y a, madame? I said I would like to ask you a question: what have you got out of this talk?
1:06:09 Questioner: [Inaudible]
1:06:10 K: Don’t answer me, sir. Find out whether you got words, descriptions, ideas, or you’ve got something that is true, that is irrevocable, indestructible because you yourself have seen it. Therefore you’re a light to yourself and therefore you’ll not light your candle at any other light; you are that light yourself. If that is a fact, not a hypocritical assumption, then a gathering of this kind has been worthwhile.
1:07:11 So now perhaps you would like to ask questions. As we said yesterday, we are asking questions to find out, not to show whether you are more clever than the speaker, or more intelligent. When you compare intelligence, who is more or less, such a person who compares is not intelligent. An intelligent man never compares. So, either you ask a question because by asking a question you reveal yourself, you expose yourself to yourself and thereby learn by asking, or you ask a question to trip the speaker — which you are perfectly welcome to do — or you ask a question so that a wider… a door is open so that you see much more vastly, greatly. 1:08:59 So it depends upon you what kind of question and the quality of the question you are going to ask. Which doesn’t mean, please, that the speaker wants you not to ask questions.
1:09:22 Yes, sir?
1:09:24 Q: When noticing something like a sunset, and also noticing that while watching it thought is doing the thing you mentioned, it’s getting involved in pleasure, in fear – what are you to do, even though you notice that?
1:09:41 K: Yes, let me repeat it. What is one to do when you notice the sunset and also at the same time thought is coming into it — right, sir? What is one to do? You understand the question? No, please, understand the significance of the question. That is, you see the sunset, thought interferers with it, and then you say, ‘What is one to do?
1:10:23 Who is the questioner who says, ‘What is one to do?
1:10:28 You understand? Is it the thought that says, ‘What am I to do?
1:10:36 You understand the question, sir? I don’t know, am I making it complicated?
1:10:49 You see, let me put… There is the sunset — the beauty of it, the extraordinary colours, the feeling of it, the love of it — then thought comes along. Then I say to myself, ‘Good Lord, here it is, what am I to do? [Laughter] Now, who is the questioner? Who is it that says, ‘What am I to do?
1:11:37 Do listen to it carefully, do go into it. Is it not thought also that says, ‘What am I to do? Right? The ‘I’ who says, ‘What am I to do? is the result of thought. So, thought says, seeing thought is interfering with this beauty, says, ‘What am I to do? Don’t do anything. No, no, please don’t laugh, this is terribly serious. No, you miss the point when you laugh, please. Don’t do anything. Then, if you do something, you bring conflict into it. But if, when you see the sunset and thought comes in, be aware of it. 1:12:50 Be aware of the sunset and the thought that comes into it. Don’t chase thought away. Be choicelessly aware of this whole thing — the sunset and thought coming into it. And then you’ll find, if you are so aware, without any desire to suppress thought, to struggle against the interference of thought, if you don’t do any of those things, then thought becomes quiet. Because it is thought itself that is saying, ‘What am I to do?
1:13:44 That’s one of the tricks of thought. Don’t fall into the trap, but observe this whole structure of what is happening.
1:14:01 Yes, sir?
1:14:04 Q: Our conditioning influences everything we do, how we listen to you and the way we see the sunset. Our conditioning influences how we listen to you and how we see a sunset and how we see a thought, and we see ourselves.
1:14:23 K: Yes, sir. Yes. So what’s the question?
1:14:26 Q: How do you stop it…
1:14:29 K: I understand, sir, I understand. May I repeat your question? Please, if I repeat it wrongly, please correct it. We are conditioned how to look at the sunset. We are conditioned how we listen to you, as the speaker. So, through our conditioning we look at everything and listen to everything. So he asks: how is one to be free of this conditioning — right, sir?
1:15:11 Q: Yes.
1:15:22 K: You know, when are you aware of this conditioning, of any conditioning? Do please follow it a little bit. When you are aware that you are conditioned? Are you aware at all that you are conditioned — as an American, as a Hindu, as a Catholic, Protestant, communist, this and that and the other thing — are you aware that you are so conditioned? Or are you aware of it because somebody has told you that you are conditioned? Please follow this. If you are aware because somebody has pointed out to you that you are conditioned then that is quite a different awareness. 1:16:33 But if you are aware that you are conditioned without being told then it has quite a different quality. You know, sir, if you are told that you are hungry, that’s one thing, and if you are actually hungry that’s another. Now find out which it is, whether you are told you’re conditioned and therefore you realise you’re conditioned, or because you’re aware, because you’re involved in this whole process of living, and because of that awareness you realise for yourself without being told that you are conditioned, then that has a vitality, then that becomes a problem, a thing that you have to understand very deeply.
1:17:49 So, I see, one sees that one is conditioned — not because one is told — conditioned as a Catholic — I’m taking as an example — or a Protestant, or God knows what you will. The obvious reaction to that is to throw away that conditioning, if you’re at all intelligent. Becoming aware of a particular conditioning, you revolt against it, as the present generation is revolting — which is merely a reaction. So, the revolt against a conditioning forms another kind of conditioning. Are you following all this? 1:19:03 So, one becomes aware of one’s conditioning — as a communist, a Protestant, a Democrat or a Republican, or a Labour or a Tory. Now, what takes place when there is no reaction but aware of what actually this conditioning is? What takes place when you are choicelessly aware of this conditioning which you have found for yourself? There is no reaction. So you are learning then about this conditioning, why it comes into being.
1:20:08 Look, two thousand years of propaganda has made you believe in a particular form of religious dogma. You’re aware of it, how the church through centuries upon centuries, through tradition, repetition, through various forms of rituals, entertainment, and maintained that, and your mind is conditioned because there has been the repetition of it, day after day, month after month from childhood — you are baptised and all the rest of it. Another form of the same thing takes place in other countries, like in India and China and all the rest of it. 1:21:03 Now, when you become aware of it, what happens? You see how quickly the mind is influenced. Right? Mind being pliable, young, innocent, is now conditioned as a communist, Catholic, Protestant, and so on. Why is it conditioned? Why is it so shaped by propaganda? Right? Are you following all this? Why are you shaped by propaganda — to buy certain things, to believe in certain things — why? Not only there is this constant pressure from the outside, but also one wants to belong to something, one wants to belong to the group, because belonging to the group is safe — one wants to be a tribal entity. 1:22:39 And behind that there is fear — fear of being alone, being left out — left out not only psychologically but also you may not get a job.
1:23:00 So all that is involved in that conditioning. And then you ask whether the mind can be free of that conditioning. When you see the danger of a conditioning, as you see the danger of a precipice or of a wild animal — the danger — then it drops away from you without any effort. But we don’t see the danger of being conditioned. We don’t see the danger of nationalities, how it separates man from man. We don’t see the danger of it. If you saw the danger, intensely, vitally — as it is dangerous — then the thing has… you drop it instantly.
1:24:14 So the question then is: is it possible to be so intensely aware of our conditioning so that you see the truth of it? Not whether you like it or dislike it — the fact that you are conditioned and therefore your mind is incapable of being free. Because it’s only the free mind that knows that love is.
1:24:49 Yes, sir?
1:25:00 Q: I have a question that is two parts, involved with time and total involvement. What I understood is true that what you said about time, that it itself replaces and displaces and replaces itself again. But is it true that it’s best that your past is consumed by the fire of your present total involvement?
1:25:37 Q: Is it true that the past should be consumed by the fire of the present total involvement.
1:25:49 K: Aha. In the fire of the present — please correct me — the whole past is burned away — is that it?
1:26:00 Q: Yes.
1:26:03 K: What is the present? Do you know what it is? When you say, ‘Live in the present, as many intellectuals advocate — they advocate it because to them the future is bleak, meaningless, sorrowful, life has no meaning, therefore they say live in the present, make the best of it, be completely with it. So you must find out what is the present, what is the now. Do you know what the now is, what the present is? Is there such thing as the present? No, no, please don’t speculate about it — observe it. 1:27:07 We are not dealing with speculative philosophy — God forbid — we are dealing with actuality. Have you ever noticed what the now is? Can you be aware of the now, know what the now is? Or you only know the past, and the past which operates in the present, which creates the future. You are following? When you say, ‘Live in the present, everything is burnt away in the present,
1:27:59 you must find out what that present is actually. Is there such thing? And to understand if there is such thing as the actual present, you must understand the past. And when you observe, you are completely as you are, as a human being, entirely the past. There is nothing new in you; you are second-hand. So you are the past looking at the present, translating the present — the present being the challenge, the pain, the anxiety, a dozen things which are the result of the past — and looking at it, getting frightened, and thinking about the tomorrow, which again creates another pleasure or fear — you are all that.
1:29:13 So to understand the now, which is an immense problem of meditation — and that is mediation, to understand totally the past, see where it’s important, and to see its total unimportance, to realise the nature of time — all that is part of mediation. And perhaps we can go into it another evening. But, sirs, before you can meditate there must be the foundation of righteousness, which means no fear. If there is any kind of fear, secret or obvious, then meditation is the most dangerous thing, because it offers a marvellous escape. 1:30:55 And meditation is one of the greatest things, if you know what meditative mind is.
1:31:10 Is that enough, sirs?
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