RV79DS4 - Do you have confidence or trust in anybody? home
Rishi Valley, India - 27 November 1979
Discussion with Students 4

Text-only version

0:22 Krishnamurti: May I first talk a little and then perhaps we can discuss or ask questions. Is that all right?
0:34 Students: Yes, sir.
0:43 K: I would like to begin by asking a question, whether you trust anybody, whether you have confidence in anybody, whether you regard them with respect. So I would like to ask, do you respect, do you have confidence, or trust anybody? Don't say I trust my father or my mother, I am not sure you do. Or do you trust your teacher, your educator? Because trust implies having confidence in someone. That confidence implies that he will look after you, that he won't frighten you, he won't tell you all day and all night long what you should do and should not do, he is not putting pressure on you, saying you must pass your exams, you must be good, you are not doing rightly, you must have this and you must do that – all that deprives one from having confidence in another. 2:31 You understand this? Now, do you have confidence or trust in anybody? You remain here at Rishi Valley for about ten years or more, or less. During that time, do you trust anybody? Do you have a confidence in somebody, one of your teachers, so that he won't frighten you, he won't tell you all the time what you are doing or what you are not doing, putting pressure on you, scolding you, frightening you. Do you have such a person? Would you kindly answer me? You understand my question? Does this silence mean that you have no trust in anybody in Rishi Valley? 4:10 Are you all frightened? So you see, if you do not have trust in another, you have no relationship with another. If you don't trust your father or your mother or your educator, you actually have no contact with him, because you are frightened of him or her, he is telling you, putting pressure on you that you must pass exams, that you must do this, that you must do that, directing you, scolding you. When that thing takes place, then relationship is non-existent. You understand what I am saying? If I scold you, if I tell you that you must pass your exams, that you must be good, that you must be this, you must not tell lies, all the time telling you what to do, what not to do, would you have trust in me? 5:32 Obviously not. Therefore you would have no relationship with me. And relationship is very important in life. You may get married, you may do this, that, but all life is relationship. You understand this? All life, from now on, from the age of five or six or seven till you die, you are always in relationship with somebody. Maybe your father, your wife, your husband or your uncle or aunt or somebody, a friend. But if there is no confidence, that is, you don't trust him, you are a little frightened of him, he is always putting pressure on you, he wants to be attached to you, or you want to be attached to them. 6:49 In that situation, all relationship actually comes to an end. You understand this?
7:07 And without relationship – you understand relationship? The word 'relationship' means to look back, relation. You understand? To look back. Like the word 'respect' means look around. Look around. When you look around, you see suffering, you see pain, you see great beauty – the hills, the green land, the mountains, the rivers, the birds, and in looking around you feel you are partaking or sharing with all that is happening around you. And out of that comes respect. 8:22 Most people have respect for their elders – supposed to. And if you want something from somebody you respect them greatly. I do not know if you have not noticed, you greatly respect the prime minister because you want something from that person, or the collector or the governor or the guru, which means you want something from them – a position, more money, better job, and in that respect lies corruption. Do you understand all this?
9:20 The word 'corruption' – are you interested in all this? – The word 'corruption' is from Latin which means, rompere, to break. I wonder if you understand all this. So, I am asking you, please pay attention to what we are saying, be good enough to do that, and find out if you have respect for somebody here in Rishi Valley. Or in your home, do you have any respect for your mother, for your father? I don't mean gratitude, it is different. Your father sends you here because you are his son or daughter, and you are grateful. 10:26 But gratitude has nothing to do with respect. Respect implies, as I pointed out, looking around, all around you so that you are sharing that which you are observing, and out of that comes deep respect for another. And so do you have any trust? Please think about this. Perhaps you have heard from Mr Narayan yesterday about what we are trying to do, something new. That is, a group of students who are helped, encouraged, and learn not to have fear of anything. Fear of examinations, fear of getting hurt by somebody, both physically and inwardly. 11:54 There are many, many types of fear. And when there is fear, you cannot possibly trust anybody. And when you don't trust anybody, then you have no relationship with another. Do you understand this? So find out, now, whether you have any trust in anybody here. Because it is very important to have trust. It means someone in whom you have trust is looking after you, both physically, morally, ethically, inwardly. Doesn't tell you what to do and should not do, doesn't push you in a particular direction, but is watching over you, helping you to be very, very clean, to be attentive, to care. 13:09 Right? That is what we are going to do. We begin with the very small, and gradually bring about a school where there is no fear of any kind. And we are going to do this, not just words. So that when there is no fear, you begin to have intelligence. Intelligence is not being clever. Most of you are very clever, you are capable of arguing. But cleverness doesn't bring about goodness.
14:11 A good man, which means a man or a woman who is whole, who is not in himself contradicting, who has affection, generosity, kindness. We want to bring about such a good person, because the world is not good, the world is brutal, the world is corrupt, you must have noticed this in this country. From the top to the bottom they are all corrupt. And you are going to enter that society, when you leave here, go to college or university, and there you are under great pressure. 15:20 And you may become extraordinarily clever as an engineer or a scientist or a biologist or excellent in English, but that doesn't bring about goodness. And to bring about a new society, a new way of living, that is the function of this school and all the other schools with which we are connected: to bring about a good mind, not a clever mind, not a mechanical mind which merely repeats what it has learned. So, I am asking you if I may, do you have trust in anybody? 16:30 Because if you haven't find out why, why you don't trust. Is it your fault? Find out, I am not telling you it is your fault or the teachers or the educators fault. But it is extraordinarily important from this age when you are quite young, to find somebody, it doesn't matter who it is, in whom you have complete trust. That means he won't hurt you, he won't tell you what to do, what not to do, he won't put pressure on you.
17:25 You know, if you have watched a flower – have you seen in the cinema a flower blossoming slowly? You must have. If that flower, from the beginning is constrained, restricted, put under great pressure, it won't blossom. So, as you are very young, you have to flower, but you cannot flower to your great depth, with great beauty, with great elegance, with great intelligence if you have not this capacity of trusting somebody completely, so that you have a relationship with him wholly. And is it possible in a school like this, to live in this community where there are probably, I was told, about 1000 people here including all the estate people, the so-called helpers in the kitchen and so on, and the educators and all of us, living in this small community, can we help each other to be free from fear? 19:06 Nobody is going to help you outside, because they are all frightened people. And when you enter that world, you are going to be sucked into that. And for the rest of your life you will always have fear of one kind or another. And so it is very important while you are here, living in this small community, whether you can be free of fear – fear of getting hurt physically, bodily. So watch, help each other not to get hurt physically, and also not to get hurt inwardly. Because one is frightened, one is sensitive, and when one says some angry words or an irritable statement you get hurt. 20:39 Now, can we, living together in this place, not hurt each other? Do you understand what I am saying? Not hurt. And you have to face examinations – most unfortunate. It is a stupid way of judging whether a person has intelligence or not. It is really a most stupid way, stupid testing, passing an examination. Because you might swat up a lot of knowledge and just pass, but no intelligence, no integrity. You understand what I am saying? So can you, can we help each other to have no fear at all – fear of the dark, fear of what people say about you, fear of public opinion, fear of not having a job, fear of not passing the exam and so on, various types of fears.
22:22 S: The teachers here are frightened themselves.
22:35 K: The teachers here are frightened themselves, our young friend says. Why?
22:52 S: They have their own fear, they are frightened whether they will get their job, or they can maintain their job, if they by mistake say something about their superior and lose their job, that is one of their fears.
23:03 K: So they are afraid of losing their job. You know: Those who can do, do. Those who cannot, become teachers.
23:19 S: I don't understand.
23:21 K: You haven't understood? First of all, teaching is the greatest profession in the world. Right? No, don't shake your head. It is the greatest, noblest profession in the world, because you are bringing about a new generation of people. The prime minister, the lawyers, the bureaucrats, they are not the highest profession, none of them. But to be a good teacher who helps to bring about a new generation of people, that is the greatest profession in the world. And society doesn't recognise this. Your father or your uncles, they say, don't become a teacher, that is nothing. So: those who can do, do. Those who cannot, become teachers. You have understood?
24:45 S: Yes.
24:46 K: Which means what? Society doesn't care. They care for engineers, they care for scientists, professors, gurus, the politicians or the big businessmen, because they expect a reward from them. But whereas a teacher, an educator is helping you to be a different man, a different woman. You understand? Wait, wait. So, do you have respect for such a teacher?
25:33 S: No, not here. I don't have respect for the teachers.
25:38 K: You haven't understood, old friend, just listen. If I am your teacher, teaching you mathematics, teaching you how to be free of fear, teaching you good manners, encouraging your intelligence, awakening your affection, care, would you respect me?
26:07 S: If I have complete trust in you, you said.
26:08 K: What?
26:10 S: If I have complete trust in you.
26:11 K: I said, do you respect me if I am looking after you?
26:15 S: Yes.
26:16 K: Seeing that you don't get hurt, physically and inwardly, seeing that you are not frightened, seeing to it that you are very clean, that you dress properly, that you have good manners. Would you have respect for me?
26:33 S: Yes.
26:33 K: Why?
26:34 S: Because it makes me a person who doesn't have fear, I can't get hurt.
26:43 K: So, if I am frightened because I am going to lose my job, I can't help you to be free from fear.
26:51 S: No, sir.
26:54 K: So you are saying the educators here are frightened.
26:58 S: Yes, sir.
27:06 K: What shall we do? No, don't shake your head. What shall we do living here in this community, with these frightened teachers and those who are not frightened, and the frightened teachers helping the students to be frightened. What shall we do together? Go on, sir, you have an answer for everything. What shall we do? Why are they frightened of losing a job – because they are not good teachers? They are incapable? They have no talent? That is, they don't really love teaching?
28:11 S: In a way it is a hierarchy.
28:17 K: Ah, hierarchy. Pronounce it properly. Yes, sir. That means there is the top boss, second boss, third boss, fourth boss, down. Which means what?
28:36 S: The bottom, they have to please the top to stay on.
28:40 K: The top echelon. That means the top few have to be pleased, otherwise they are thrown out. Is that it?
28:49 S: What they want, they may not get. The favours, they would never get the favours.
28:53 K: You are my boss – suppose – and I am one of your teachers, and I am frightened because I might lose it. What will you do with me? I may be a bad teacher, you understand? I might have a few degrees, but I haven't got the heart to teach. What will you do?
29:21 S: But the top, they are also frightened of their top. Everybody have their fears. The top have the fears of losing their job.
29:36 K: I don't think Mr Narayan is frightened of losing his job, because he is here to teach, he is not frightened of me. There is no boss over him. No, wait, see, don't accept it, see. We are working democratically, you understand? We are not saying, I am the boss, you are the second, you are the third, you are the fourth, we said, we are all working together – together, cooperating together – to bring about a school where the student is not frightened. Cooperating. In cooperating there can't be one high, one low. Now, how shall we, all of us, bring this about? Don't say it is Mr Narayan's job.
30:38 S: If you say there is one person who is frightened, a teacher, then that person, the guy on the top, that is, if you can take the example of Mr Narayan, he can help the teacher either to get interested in teaching...
30:56 K: Now, wait a minute. But suppose that teacher, that educator is incapable, then he is frightened. If I am capable, if I love what I am doing – I love to teach mathematics, love to help students to be free of fear, and I am doing my best to do this. And another teacher may not have this capacity, he is frightened. So what shall we do? That is right, sir. So that is what I said, an educator needs to be educated. You have understood what I said?
32:05 S: Not really.
32:07 K: The educator, the teacher, needs to be educated.
32:12 S: To get rid of that fear.
32:13 K: No, to be educated, which means to get rid of fear, not to be frightened of losing a job, to teach properly, to care, to have affection, not to get irritated, not to scold – you have to educate him. So, part of the function of our school, Rishi Valley, is to educate the educator. You have understood?
32:42 S: Yes.
32:43 K: Now, will they agree to all this?
32:49 S: Some of them.
32:54 K: All the school, not some of them, all of us. See the importance – look, old boy, do you have current events being told to you? Current events, what is happening in the world.
33:12 S: Newspapers, we have got newspapers.
33:14 K: No, apart from newspapers, is there a teacher or teachers who will tell you what is happening in the world? Current events.
33:26 S: We have a choice activity.
33:35 K: Do you know what is happening in the world? Not only in India, in America, in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in Russia, in China and so on. Do you know what is happening?
33:47 S: I don't have a clear idea.
33:49 K: Do you have a clear idea of what is happening in this country?
33:52 S: In this country, yes.
33:53 K: Yes?
33:54 K: Now, what is happening?
33:58 S: In the country, elections are coming up, and everybody is campaigning for their posts and all polls have been taken in a few places and they have seen who has got the most chances, and that is about how the government is right now. There is a caretaker government.
34:23 K: That is one side. That is, politicians are waiting for elections and playing games, cheating, changing sides. They all want power, they all want position, they all want to be chief bosses, so they are changing sides. There is no principle, nobody sticks to one clear-cut thing, they are all playing. What does that indicate? Go on. They are all confused. Look, I vote for this person and he becomes popular and I change my sides and join him.
35:16 S: But it doesn't have to be because they are confused, they want to get the power.
35:19 K: That is all. Which means what? They don't care for human beings, they don't care for the poor, they don't care for what is happening in the world, just me. That is all. And this country has overpopulation. For one job probably there are thousands of people. There is every kind of disorder, and you are going to enter into this. Unless you are really intelligent, you will become also corrupt. And you may like corruption.
36:02 S: Yes, perhaps, sir.
36:05 K: Perhaps, which means what?
36:09 S: You will have all the fears and all that.
36:10 K: Yes. So you will be unintelligent. Now, it is the function of this school to help you to be intelligent. And you cannot be intelligent if you are frightened. So can we all of us, the teachers, the students, help each other not to be frightened? Don't say some teachers are frightened and the others are not. Those who are frightened because they might lose their job, and if they are capable of teaching, if they are capable of educating themselves and the student, then there is no fear, if that is what they want.
37:10 S: But I don't think that is what they want.
37:14 K: How do you know what they want?
37:16 S: No, sir, because nearly everybody is after the money and if they want to live happily in this world – their opinion of living happily.
37:29 K: So you are saying, all of those of us who are teachers here really are after money.
37:40 S: Yes, sir, in my opinion.
37:43 K: What do you mean your opinion? You may be inaccurate.
37:52 S: I may be.
37:56 K: So don't say, my opinion. So now my question is this, to the teachers and to all the students here: how shall we bring this about, that we have trust in each other. You understand? That you won't be bullied, you won't be scolded, you won't be frightened by examinations, etc. And to see that you grow in intelligence, not in cleverness, that you become a good human being, not get corrupted. You understand?
38:50 S: I really don't know.
38:52 K: No, quite right, you don't know.
38:53 K: That is the problem of us who are a little older than you, to say, this is going to be done. We are going to work at it. But you must also help us, because you also want to be that, have good capacity to think clearly, a good mind, not a mind that just repeats, repeats, repeats. That is not a good mind – like a gramophone. Right? I would like to talk about something totally different. Do you know what beauty is? What is beauty? What do you consider beauty? Please, all of you who are 18, 19, who are 16, 17, whatever you are, what is beauty to you?
40:21 S: Something which pleases your mind.
40:24 K: Something that pleases the mind is beauty. Is that it? And that which doesn't please your mind is ugly.
40:35 S: Yes.
40:38 K: Careful, think it out carefully. You see something like those flowers, and it pleases you, and you call that beauty. But you see something else and it doesn't please you, and you say, that is not beauty. So, does beauty – listen carefully – does beauty depend on what you like and don't like? This is part of your education. You understand, old boy? Now, does beauty depend on what you like and don't like?
41:20 S: Yes, sir.
41:21 K: Think it out, don't say yes.
41:23 S: It is.
41:24 K: But you haven't thought it out fully. What does that mean? Wait, what pleases you and what doesn't please you, you call beauty, but that thing which pleases you may not please me, and therefore I don't call it beauty. So what does that mean? Beauty depends on personal pleasure, or personal dislike.
41:54 K: So each person...
41:55 S: Has his own beauty.
41:57 K: Yes. Is that so? Is that right?
42:01 S: It is so.
42:03 K: We think it is so, but is that so? I may call those flowers extraordinarily beautiful, and you say, well, those aren't beauty. Beauty is my face. You understand? So, what happens if each person says different thing about beauty? I want to find out if there is a perception, seeing, which doesn't vary according to the personal like and dislike, but seeing beauty. This may be a little difficult. You understand?
42:51 S: Yes, sir.
42:53 K: Now, I am asking you, what is beauty?
42:58 S: It is something that everyone feels is nice.
43:03 K: But you just now agreed before. You have changed your view.
43:06 S: Yes.
43:09 K: Now, why did you change your view?
43:12 S: Because what you said was nobody's beauty is standard, it varies.
43:16 K: That is right.
43:17 K: So you are trying to find out a common denominator which everybody says, that is beautiful. Is that possible? I can say, my wife is the most beautiful woman. But somebody says, my God! Right? So, is beauty dependent on my eye?
43:56 S: No.
43:57 K: What is beauty?
43:59 S: It doesn't depend on your eye.
44:02 K: Wait, wait.
44:05 K: Have you seen any of those Greek statues? Of Athena?
44:12 S: I don't remember seeing.
44:14 K: All right.
44:16 K: Have you seen any of the beautiful paintings? Very famous, so-called beautiful paintings? All right, I better move, I will make it simpler. I can have a most beautiful face, perfect nose, perfect eyes, head and all that, but inside I may be just empty. Inside I may be ugly, I may be brutal, I may be violent, but I have got a nice face. Would you call that beauty?
44:55 S: I would call your face beauty, the beauty of your face, but if I knew you whole, with everything, then I wouldn't call you beautiful.
45:04 K: That is it.
45:06 K: So I can have a nice face, but ugly inside. So that person is not beautiful. He may have good lines and all the rest of it. Beauty implies complete harmony, both inward and outward.
45:30 S: If a person is ugly outwardly, and he is a good person inwardly, is he not beautiful?
45:36 K: He is good. So do you judge beauty by outward appearance or by the whole quality of the person? You understand? I am educating you, old boy. You understand? And also I would like to ask another question if I may: what is love? What do you think is love? Do you love anybody? Again silence?
46:36 S: Not complete, sir. There are points where you may not like that person. There are certain places so you can't like him. I don't love anyone completely.
46:50 K: You don't love your father completely?
46:52 S: No, because sometimes I am frightened of him, so in that time I don't like him at all.
46:56 K: So sometimes he hurts you, sometimes he doesn't hurt you. So you don't love anybody completely. Why?
47:15 S: Because of the fear.
47:17 K: Yes, go into it. You hurt me, and I feel annoyed, angry, I am hurt inside, and I can't love you then.
47:36 S: Yes, sir.
47:39 K: So think it out carefully. Does love depend on being hurt or not hurt, or is it something that you cannot hurt at all? You have understood?
48:00 S: I will have to think a little.
48:04 K: Think a little.
48:07 K: That is, I love you. It is not because you don't hurt me, it is not because you give me comfort, it is not because you are my wife, it is not because you help me, or my companion, this and that. I love you. Which means what?
48:35 S: You are not bothered what he does.
48:38 K: Which means what? Love is independent of environment.
48:45 S: But I don't find it so.
48:46 K: Just see first.
48:48 K: Of course you don't find it, but see the fact. What is the joke?
49:02 S: Somebody made some noise and they are laughing.
49:08 K: You are not interested in this, are you? So you see, unless you know what beauty is, what love is, how to live harmoniously without conflict, without inside outside battle, you will always have this fear. So I am asking, can we not help each other in this school, not to have fear? Right, sir, that is enough. Is that enough?
49:57 S: You say that every time. The discussion is never done again.
50:02 K: Oh yes, it is done, it is going to be done. Didn't Mr Narayan talk to you yesterday?
50:11 S: He did.
50:13 K: Didn't he say we are going to do this?
50:15 S: He said the junior school.
50:17 K: Begin there, but come and join us, it doesn't matter if you are junior or senior – be in that. You follow what I am saying? We are all working together to get rid of fear, which means, make you into a good human being. So don't say it is just only for the juniors, but it is also for you.
50:49 S: Right, sir.
51:02 K: It is nearly half past ten. Do you want me to go on talking? Or is that enough? Come on, sirs. Ravi? I recognise you, but I don't recognise the others, because I have met you a little more. It doesn't mean that you are special.
51:33 K: What do you say? What would you like to talk about?
51:40 S: About trust, what you started.
51:47 G. Narayan: About trust.
51:48 K: Trust. I have said enough about that word – to have confidence. You know, if you have trust or confidence in somebody completely, what has happened to your mind? You understand my question?
52:15 S: Yes, sir.
52:16 K: You trust me, suppose – I don't say you should – suppose you trust me completely. That is, I will see that you are not hurt, I will see that you are a good person, etc. And I will also see that you are becoming very, very intelligent, care, right clothes, right manners, everything. You have trust in me. Now, what has happened to your mind when you have trust in somebody?
52:49 S: Your mind becomes one with the other.
52:51 K: No, watch it! Darling, listen carefully. What happens to your mind when you have such trust in somebody – to your mind?
53:06 S: You love that person.
53:08 K: Yes, you love the person. Go on, look into it a little more. May I help you?
53:25 S: Yes, sir.
53:27 K: You have a very good relationship with him, haven't you? You won't be frightened.
53:33 S: No, sir.
53:34 K: You will listen to what he says. Which means what? Go into it, old boy, think it out. You have got brains, go on, all of you. When you have trust in somebody there is a certain sense of freedom. Right?
53:56 S: Between the two of you.
53:58 K: No, you have learned that there is a freedom in trust.
54:06 S: But that freedom doesn't apply when you talk to anyone else.
54:09 K: Wait. You have trust in me, suppose. That is, confidence. You can tell me your troubles, I won't say you are right or wrong, put you under pressure, I won't frighten you. So what has happened to your mind when you so trust somebody completely?
54:38 S: It is freer.
54:41 K: It is free. Freer, all right, if you like to be – it is freer. And you know what that quality of freedom is. You have understood?
54:55 S: I don't know about the quality of freedom, I haven't understood.
54:58 K: Just listen to it, learn. Quality means the nature, the feeling of that freedom, the feeling. I will begin again. You are not tired?
55:17 S: No.
55:17 K: You are sure?
55:19 K: You trust me, suppose, and you know I won't do a thing to hurt you, you know I will watch over you, not correct you, watch over you, so that you don't get hurt, that you are clean, that you have proper exercise, proper food, proper amount of sleep and so on. When you have such a trust in me, you are free with me, aren't you?
55:51 K: Free.
55:52 S: Yes.
55:52 K: Now, you know the feeling of that freedom. You have the feeling of that freedom.
55:59 S: I have never had...
56:01 K: No, darling, I am saying.
56:02 K: Of course you haven't, because you have not trusted anybody. But I say, when you trust somebody like me – if you trust – this quality of freedom comes into your mind, the feeling of it. With that feeling you can live with anybody, you won't lose that feeling. I wonder if you understand this.
56:28 S: Because of the influence of that person.
56:32 K: No.
56:37 K: Since you don't trust anybody, which is most unfortunate, what kind of school is this? If you don't trust anybody here, you feel that you are enclosed, don't you?
57:06 K: Isolated.
57:08 S: Lonelier.
57:09 K: Learn this: isolated, lonely, separate. But if you trust somebody like me – if you do – then you are not lonely.
57:22 S: You feel you have someone with you.
57:23 K: Yes. Which means what? You don't depend on him, but this quality of freedom, this sense of freedom is in you. That is all that matters. You have understood?
57:38 S: Yes.
57:39 K: So we must create in this school people whom all of you can trust.
57:49 S: You should create. You must create it.
57:52 K: Create it, help us to create it, all of you. Don't sit like dumb animals, but say, this is what we want. You understand? Because you see, sir, if you have no freedom – which can only come when you have this feeling that you can trust, then he can help you. Because you are free, he wants you to maintain that freedom.
58:36 S: To see that you are never frightened.
58:39 K: That is it. You get it?
58:40 S: Yes.
58:42 K: Have you got it, Ravi, or have you gone to sleep? Gosh, you boys, where have you been living? All that you are concerned with is examinations, and playing games or this or that, but you are never concerned deeply about yourself, your mind, your heart, the quality of your intelligence. Ravi, you asked me to talk about trust more. Have you understood what I said?
59:39 S: Yes.
59:42 K: A rather weak yes?
59:45 S: Yes.
59:48 K: By shouting it is not going to make you understand, but have you understood what I said? That is, have you seen if you trust somebody – and I hope you do, for yourself, for your own sake – that in that trust there comes this sense of freedom? Because you see, sir, your parents, your uncles, your aunts, all the rest of them, you don't trust them because they are telling you what to do, what not, you must pass, you must be like your brother, you are not good, you are this, that – they are pushing you, pushing you, pushing you. Therefore you lose trust in them. That means you are frightened. But if you trust somebody for whom you have affection, love, you are free. Now, if you can understand and keep that freedom – keep it.
1:00:57 S: You won't be frightened of anyone.
1:00:58 K: You will never be frightened. You will always have this sense of freedom inwardly.
1:01:09 S: But when you are not with that person, if that person is not any longer with you, then don't you lose that sense of freedom?
1:01:18 K: No, because you know what it means. Look, you have tasted some good fruit, and the taste remains always, so you won't lose it. That may be a bad simile, don't take the bad – all similes are bad, but go into it. You have something that is imperishable if there is this quality of freedom. It doesn't depend on another. You have confidence in me, suppose, and you know what it has done to you. That remains with you. That is all. You have got it?
1:02:14 S: Yes.
1:02:16 K: Keep it, keep it. If you have got it, you have got it always.
1:02:22 S: But first you have to get that confidence.
1:02:24 K: Therefore you have to be helped to find someone whom you can trust.
1:02:31 S: Yes.
1:02:34 K: That is a part of our education, probably the major part. I know you haven't done it here. We are going to do it. We have been talking endlessly about all this.
1:02:55 S: It has been told so many times, saying that we will do something.
1:03:02 GN: May I ask you something, if you don't mind? Is somebody frightening you here?
1:03:08 S: I am frightened of so many people.
1:03:10 GN: Is somebody frightening you here?
1:03:14 K: Mr Narayan asks, is somebody frightening you here, giving you fear? Is there somebody?
1:03:26 GN: If there is, we can resolve it, and then we can proceed further. But if you talk without basis to fact then we are lost. If somebody is frightening you, we can certainly help you, I can help you, a number of others can help you. If you have fears we can help you. But if you don't make a start or if you don't relate, then it will be difficult, then we will be talking round and round.
1:03:54 K: Now, old boy, is somebody frightening you here?
1:03:59 S: Yes. Not only here, of course.
1:04:05 K: Of course, outside everybody frightens you. That is their job. But here, is there somebody frightening you?
1:04:20 GN: Be factual.
1:04:24 K: Be factual.
1:04:27 S: There are people who are frightening.
1:04:29 K: There are.
1:04:30 S: Yes.
1:04:32 S: But it is mostly directed towards my examinations, it is mostly towards that.
1:04:37 K: Mostly about examinations. To blazes with examinations!
1:04:42 GN: I said that yesterday. If you want, you can take exam one year later. Take your own time.
1:04:54 K: The Chinese invented this system of testing people, thousands of years ago, and that system exists right through the world. There are a few schools in England and some in America that say don't bother about examinations, study – listen carefully – study, learn, and if you have done this for ten years, at the last year you can pass through. You understand? You are here for ten years. And during those ten years, learn, study, and when you reach 18, 19, 16, 17, you can easily pass, there is no fear. You understand? 1:05:50 That is what we are going to do. We must do that here. We are going to do. You see, there are several of us, we have met. There is Narayan, Krishnan Kutty and Mr Menon, and a few of us have met. We said this is going to be done. Not just another postponing. I am going to twist Mr Narayan's arm. You know that phrase? Oh, you don't know that phrase. I am not going to actually twist his arm, probably he is stronger than me. But it means I am going to put pressure, I am going to insist on this. You understand?
1:06:50 S: You will be putting pressure on him then.
1:06:53 K: That is right. He can bear it. I won't put pressure on you, but he can bear it. You understand? Right. I think that is enough, can we sit quietly for a few minutes? Goodbye, sirs.
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