Krishnamurti Subtitles

Can the mind become quiet?

New York - 25 April 1971

Public Talk 4



0:31 Krishnamurti: I think we said
that we would talk over together
  
0:39 a very complex problem,
 
0:44 which is,
 
0:51 if there is
a religious experience,
  
1:03 and what are the implications
of meditation.
  
1:20 If one observes,
right throughout the world,
  
1:27 man has always, it appears,
 
1:31 been seeking something beyond
his own death,
  
1:42 his own problems,
 
1:46 something that will be enduring,
 
1:50 true and timeless.
 
1:55 He's called it God,
 
2:00 he's given it so many names,
 
2:09 and most of us believe
 
2:15 in something of that kind
 
2:19 without ever
actually experiencing.
  
2:29 Various religions
throughout the world
  
2:33 have promised
 
2:40 that if you believed
in certain forms
  
2:44 of rituals, dogmas, saviours,
 
2:53 you might,
if you lead a certain kind of life,
  
2:58 come upon this
strange thing called
  
3:03 whatever name
one likes to give to it.
  
3:10 And those who have
directly experienced it,
  
3:18 either experience it
according to their conditioning,
  
3:26 to their belief,
 
3:33 according to their environmental,
cultural influence.
  
3:40 If you are born in India
 
3:47 you have the various forms
 
3:53 of beliefs, gods,
 
3:58 and all the rest of that.
 
4:00 If you are born in the West,
 
4:02 again you are conditioned
by propaganda
  
4:08 of two thousand years,
 
4:12 and one is caught
 
4:14 in a series of beliefs,
dogmas and rituals.
  
4:23 And apparently
 
4:30 religion has lost its meaning,
 
4:40 because there have been
religious wars,
  
4:46 religion doesn't answer
all our problems,
  
4:52 religions have separated man,
 
4:57 Catholic, Protestant,
Hindu, Buddhist, and so on,
  
5:03 it has brought about
some kind of civilising influence,
  
5:10 but radically
it has not changed man.
  
5:22 And when one begins to enquire
 
5:27 if there is such a thing
as religious experience,
  
5:35 and what is that experience,
 
5:38 and why does one
call it religious,
  
5:46 if one goes into it,
 
5:49 obviously one must first have
 
5:56 a great deal of honesty.
 
6:01 Not to be honest
to a principle or a belief
  
6:07 or to any form of commitment
 
6:11 but to see things
exactly as they are,
  
6:18 without any distortion,
 
6:22 not only outwardly
but also inwardly,
  
6:29 never to deceive oneself.
 
6:36 For deception is quite easy
 
6:42 if one craves
for some kind of experience,
  
6:49 call it religious or otherwise,
 
6:52 take a trip and so on,
 
6:56 then you are bound to be caught
in some kind of illusion,
  
7:03 or experience according
to your conditioning.
  
7:13 But to find out for oneself,
if one can,
  
7:22 what is the
religious experience,
  
7:27 one needs
a great sense of humility
  
7:32 and honesty,
 
7:37 which means
 
7:41 never to ask for experience,
 
7:48 never to demand
 
7:57 for oneself
 
8:02 a reality or experience
 
8:07 or an achievement.
 
8:11 So one has to look very closely
 
8:18 at one's own desires,
 
8:22 attachments, fears,
 
8:29 and understand them wholly,
if one can,
  
8:36 so that the mind
is in no way distorted,
  
8:45 so that
there will be no illusion,
  
8:52 no deception.
 
8:58 And one has to ask also,
 
9:04 what does it mean to experience?
 
9:13 I do not know if you have gone
into that question at all.
  
9:25 Most of us
 
9:29 are tired, bored
 
9:32 with the usual experiences
of every day.
  
9:40 We are tired of them all
 
9:44 and the more
one is sophisticated,
  
9:48 the more one is intellectual,
 
9:55 one wants to live
only in the present,
  
10:01 whatever that may mean,
 
10:04 and invent a philosophy
of the present.
  
10:17 But to find out for oneself
what it means to experience,
  
10:28 the word itself
means to go through,
  
10:33 to finish, to go right to the end
and finish with it.
  
10:39 But unfortunately,
 
10:44 for most of us,
 
10:47 every experience leaves a scar,
a memory,
  
10:51 pleasant or unpleasant,
 
10:55 and we want only to retain
the pleasant ones.
  
11:03 And when we are asking
for any kind of spiritual, religious,
  
11:08 or transcendental experience,
 
11:15 we are trying to find out,
aren't we,
  
11:22 whether, first of all,
there is such an experience,
  
11:27 and also
what experience itself means.
  
11:35 If you experience something
 
11:38 and you cannot recognise
that experience
  
11:43 then that experience
ceases to be.
  
11:48 One of the essential
meanings of experience
  
11:55 is recognition,
 
12:02 and when there is recognition
 
12:06 it has already been known,
 
12:09 already been experienced,
 
12:12 otherwise
you cannot possibly recognise.
  
12:20 So, when they talk about
religious experience,
  
12:23 spiritual experience,
 
12:25 or that word
which is so misused
  
12:31 - transcendental experience -
 
12:36 you must have already known it
to be able to recognise
  
12:41 that you are experiencing something
other than the ordinary experience,
  
12:48 that seems so logical and true,
 
12:55 that the mind
must be able to recognise,
  
13:00 and recognition implies something
which you have already known,
  
13:06 therefore it is not new.
 
13:14 And when you are
wanting more experience
  
13:21 in the religious field,
 
13:24 either you want it because
you have not solved your problems,
  
13:32 your daily anxieties,
 
13:35 despairs and fears and sorrows,
 
13:40 and therefore you are wanting
something more.
  
13:44 And in that demand for the more,
lies deception.
  
13:53 I think, again,
that's fairly logical and true.
  
14:00 Not that logic is always true
 
14:06 but when one uses logic,
reason,
  
14:11 healthily, sanely,
 
14:15 one knows
the limitation of reason.
  
14:26 And the demand for wider, deeper,
 
14:32 more fundamental experiences
 
14:37 only leads to further extension
 
14:43 of this past of the known.
 
14:48 I think that is clear
 
14:50 and I hope we are communicating,
sharing with each other.
  
14:58 Then also
in this religious enquiry,
  
15:11 one is seeking,
 
15:16 one is seeking to find out
what truth is,
  
15:20 if there is a reality,
 
15:23 if there is such a thing
 
15:27 as a state of mind
that is beyond time.
  
15:38 Search again implies a seeker,
 
15:47 doesn't it?
 
15:51 And what is he seeking?
 
15:58 How will he know
 
16:02 that which he has found
in his search is true?
  
16:10 Again,
 
16:12 if he finds what is true,
 
16:15 at least what he thinks is true,
 
16:19 that depends on his conditioning,
on his past, on his knowledge,
  
16:24 on his past experiences,
 
16:33 and search then merely becomes
a further projection of his own past,
  
16:43 hopes and fears and longings.
 
16:50 So a mind that is enquiring,
 
16:57 not seeking,
 
17:00 a mind that is enquiring
 
17:02 without wanting experience
 
17:09 must be totally free
of these two,
  
17:14 that is,
the demand for experience
  
17:20 and the search for truth.
 
17:25 One can see why,
 
17:28 because when you are seeking,
 
17:31 you go to various teachers,
various books,
  
17:36 join various cults,
 
17:39 follow various gurus,
teachers, etc.,
  
17:44 like window shopping.
 
17:52 And such search
 
17:56 has no meaning whatsoever.
 
18:04 So, when you are enquiring
into this question:
  
18:10 what is a religious mind,
 
18:21 and what is a quality of mind
 
18:29 that is no longer experiencing
anything at all,
  
18:43 and can the mind be free
 
18:49 from the demand for experience
 
18:52 and completely end all seeking
 
18:56 but only investigate
without any motive,
  
19:02 without any purpose,
 
19:11 the fact of time
 
19:20 and if there is
a timeless state.
  
19:26 To enquire into that,
 
19:30 which means
no belief whatsoever,
  
19:38 not committed to any religion,
 
19:41 to any so-called
spiritual organisation,
  
19:47 not following any guru,
 
19:54 therefore no authority
whatsoever,
  
19:59 including that of the speaker
especially.
  
20:07 Because you are
very easily influenced,
  
20:12 terribly gullible,
 
20:16 though you may be sophisticated,
 
20:23 know a great deal,
 
20:26 but you are always eager,
 
20:30 always wanting
 
20:34 and therefore gullible.
 
20:44 So, a mind that is enquiring
into the question
  
20:50 of what is religion,
 
20:55 must be free entirely
of any form of belief,
  
21:04 any form of fear,
 
21:09 because fear,
as we explained the other day,
  
21:15 is a distorting factor,
 
21:18 bringing about violence,
aggression.
  
21:23 Therefore a mind
that is enquiring
  
21:26 into the quality
of a religious state,
  
21:35 movement,
 
21:36 must be free of this,
 
21:41 and that demands great honesty
 
21:44 and a great sense of humility.
 
21:48 For most of us,
 
21:53 vanity is one of
the major impediments,
  
22:01 because we think we know,
 
22:04 because we have read
a great deal,
  
22:08 we have committed ourselves,
 
22:11 we have practiced
this or that system,
  
22:16 followed some guru
 
22:22 peddling his philosophy.
 
22:28 And we think we know,
 
22:31 at least a little bit,
 
22:35 and that's the beginning
of vanity.
  
22:40 And when you are enquiring
into such an extraordinary question
  
22:50 there must be the freedom
 
22:55 of actually not knowing
a thing about it.
  
23:03 You really don't know, do you?
 
23:09 You don't know what truth is,
what God is, if there is such thing,
  
23:16 or what is a truly
religious mind.
  
23:19 You have read about it,
 
23:22 people have talked
for millennia,
  
23:29 built monasteries,
 
23:35 but actually they are living
on other people's knowledge,
  
23:42 experience, propaganda.
 
23:46 Surely one must put aside
all that completely,
  
23:52 mustn't one, to find out?
 
23:55 Therefore the enquiry into this
is a very, very serious matter.
  
24:05 And if you want to
play with all this
  
24:11 there are all kinds
of entertainments,
  
24:18 so-called spiritual,
religious entertainments,
  
24:23 but they have no value whatsoever
to a serious mind.
  
24:35 To enquire into
 
24:42 what is a religious mind,
 
24:47 one must not only,
as we explained yesterday,
  
24:51 be free of our conditioning,
 
24:54 be free of our Christianity,
of our Buddhism, Hinduism,
  
25:00 with all the propaganda
 
25:02 of five thousand
or two thousand years,
  
25:06 so the mind is really free
to observe.
  
25:13 That's very difficult
because we are afraid to be alone,
  
25:18 to stand alone,
 
25:23 because we want security
both outwardly and inwardly,
  
25:29 therefore we depend on people,
 
25:33 whether it's the priest
or the new leader
  
25:36 or the guru who says he knows,
 
25:38 or he says, I have experienced
therefore I know.
  
25:46 So one has to stand
completely alone,
  
25:50 not isolated,
 
25:53 there is a vast difference
between isolation
  
25:57 and being completely alone,
 
26:03 integral.
 
26:08 Isolation is a state of mind
in which relationship ceases,
  
26:17 when actually
through your daily life and activity
  
26:24 you have built a wall
around yourself,
  
26:27 consciously or unconsciously,
 
26:31 not to be hurt.
 
26:38 That isolation
 
26:42 obviously prevents
every form of relationship,
  
26:48 which we went into, somewhat,
yesterday evening.
  
26:55 And aloneness implies
 
26:59 a mind that does not depend
 
27:06 on another psychologically,
 
27:12 is not attached to any person,
 
27:19 which does not mean
that there is no love.
  
27:22 Love is not attachment.
 
27:36 Aloneness implies
 
27:42 a mind that is really,
deeply, inwardly,
  
27:47 without any sense of fear,
therefore any sense of conflict.
  
28:04 Then we can proceed,
if you go so far,
  
28:12 to find out
what discipline means.
  
28:24 For most of us,
 
28:27 discipline is a form of drill,
 
28:33 a repetition,
 
28:38 either overcoming an obstacle,
 
28:43 resisting or suppressing,
 
28:48 controlling,
shaping, conforming,
  
28:54 all that is implied
in that word discipline.
  
29:04 But the root meaning
of that word is to learn,
  
29:10 a mind that is willing to learn,
 
29:15 not conform.
 
29:20 A mind that is willing to learn
must be curious,
  
29:29 must have great interest.
 
29:35 And a mind that already knows
cannot possibly learn.
  
29:43 If you want to learn a language,
 
29:46 you come to it not knowing
that language
  
29:50 and therefore your mind
is learning.
  
30:04 And when you are learning
 
30:08 what the meaning of that word
discipline means,
  
30:15 not drill,
 
30:18 not repetitive,
 
30:20 not mechanical,
 
30:23 not conforming
 
30:27 or suppressing, controlling,
etc.,
  
30:31 you are learning about it,
 
30:33 therefore, in that very learning
there is order.
  
30:42 Are we following each other
in all this?
  
30:48 Can I go on?
 
30:54 If we don't communicate
with each other,
  
30:56 I'm sorry.
 
31:00 There is a great deal
to be gone into,
  
31:03 therefore I must get on with it.
 
31:13 So discipline, the root meaning
of that word means to learn,
  
31:19 to learn why one controls,
 
31:22 why one suppresses,
why there is fear,
  
31:30 why does one conform, compare,
 
31:36 and therefore conflict.
 
31:39 And in that learning
there is order,
  
31:45 that very learning
brings about order,
  
31:48 not order
according to any design, pattern,
  
31:58 but in the very enquiry
 
32:01 into the confusion,
into the disorder,
  
32:05 there is order.
 
32:13 Most of us are confused
 
32:19 for a dozen reasons,
 
32:21 which we needn't go into
for the moment.
  
32:27 To learn about confusion,
 
32:31 to learn about
the disorderly life one leads,
  
32:39 not try to bring order
into confusion
  
32:43 or order in disorder,
 
32:46 but to learn about disorder,
 
32:49 to learn about confusion.
 
32:53 Then as you are learning,
order comes into being.
  
33:03 So order is a living thing,
not a mechanical order,
  
33:13 and order is surely virtue.
 
33:24 It is the mind that is disorderly
that is not virtuous.
  
33:36 A mind that's confused,
conforming, imitating,
  
33:42 is not orderly,
 
33:46 it is in conflict.
 
33:48 And a mind that's in conflict
is disorderly
  
33:55 and therefore such a mind
has no virtue,
  
33:59 it's only the mind
that's learning,
  
34:06 learning about disorder,
 
34:10 conforming, and so on.
 
34:16 Out of this enquiry, learning,
comes order,
  
34:21 and therefore order is virtue.
 
34:28 Not the morality of society,
 
34:32 the social morality,
as you observe, is totally immoral.
  
34:40 It may be respectable,
 
34:46 and what is respectable
is generally disorderly.
  
34:55 Please, observe it in yourself,
 
35:04 see how one is, in one's life,
 
35:08 so disordered,
 
35:13 so confused,
 
35:17 so mechanical.
 
35:21 And in that state,
one tries to find a moral,
  
35:25 a way of living
which will be orderly, sane, etc.
  
35:32 How can a mind that is confused,
conforming, imitative,
  
35:39 have any kind of order,
 
35:43 any kind of virtue?
 
35:48 But order is necessary,
 
35:56 because only out of order
can there be a total action.
  
36:07 May I go on?
 
36:09 I won't ask anymore whether
I can go on, I'll just go on.
  
36:21 Action is life,
 
36:31 but our action brings disorder.
 
36:35 There is political action,
religious action,
  
36:38 business action, family action,
fragmented actions.
  
36:45 And naturally such action
is contradictory,
  
36:53 you are a businessman
 
36:57 and at home
you're a kindly human being,
  
37:00 at least you pretend to be.
 
37:05 There is contradiction
 
37:10 and therefore there is disorder.
 
37:12 And a mind that is in disorder
 
37:15 cannot possibly understand
what virtue is.
  
37:24 And nowadays,
 
37:29 when there is permissiveness
of every kind,
  
37:39 virtue, order, is denied.
 
37:50 And a religious mind
must have this order,
  
37:57 not according to a pattern
or a design
  
38:02 laid down by you
or by another,
  
38:07 but that order,
that sense of moral rectitude,
  
38:15 comes only when you understand
the disorder,
  
38:21 the confusion,
the mess that one lives in.
  
38:30 Now, all this
is to lay the foundation
  
38:36 for meditation.
 
38:48 If you don't lay the foundation,
 
38:55 meditation then
becomes an escape,
  
39:04 and you can play with
that kind of meditation endlessly.
  
39:09 That's what most people
are doing,
  
39:15 lead an ordinary,
confused, messy life,
  
39:21 and somehow find a corner
to bring about a quiet mind.
  
39:35 And there are all the people
who will give you a quiet mind,
  
39:40 whatever that may mean.
 
39:44 So for a serious mind,
 
39:50 and this is a very serious thing,
not a play thing,
  
40:00 one must have this freedom
 
40:05 from all belief,
 
40:11 from all commitment,
 
40:17 because you are committed
to the whole of life,
  
40:20 not to one segment of life.
 
40:26 Because most of us are committed
to revolution, physical revolution,
  
40:32 or to political this or that,
or the religious activity,
  
40:38 to some kind of religious,
monastic life and so on,
  
40:45 those are all
fragmentary commitments.
  
40:49 We are talking of freedom
 
40:55 so that you can commit yourself,
 
40:58 your whole being, your whole energy,
vitality and passion
  
41:05 to the whole of life,
 
41:08 not to one part of it.
 
41:14 Then we can proceed to find out
 
41:19 what it means to meditate.
 
41:33 I don't know if you have
gone into this at all.
  
41:40 Probably some of you
have played with it,
  
41:45 tried to control your thoughts,
 
41:49 followed various systems,
 
41:54 but that's not meditation
at all.
  
42:00 So one has to dispose
of the various systems
  
42:06 that one has been offered,
 
42:15 the Zen,
 
42:17 the transcendental,
 
42:21 the things that have been
brought over
  
42:24 from India or Asia,
 
42:30 in which various people
are caught.
  
42:36 So one has to go into this question
of systems, methods.
  
42:46 And I hope you will too,
 
42:48 we are sharing this problem
together.
  
42:54 When you have a system
to follow,
  
43:02 what happens to the mind?
 
43:07 What does a system,
a method imply?
  
43:13 A guru
 
43:16 - I don't know why
they call themselves gurus -
  
43:23 I can't find a strong word
 
43:27 to deny that whole world
of gurus,
  
43:34 of their authority,
 
43:37 because they think they know.
 
43:44 And a man who says, I know,
 
43:49 such a man does not know.
 
43:54 Or a man who says,
I have experienced truth,
  
43:58 distrust him completely.
 
44:07 These are the people
who offer systems.
  
44:14 System implies practice,
 
44:19 following,
 
44:21 repetition,
 
44:26 denying what actually is,
 
44:33 and therefore
increasing your conflict.
  
44:40 The system promises
nirvana or enlightenment.
  
44:45 Just think of it,
 
44:47 promising somebody
enlightenment.
  
44:52 And therefore you have
 
44:57 the guru who says he knows more
 
44:58 and the other guru says
he knows still more.
  
45:02 And the disciples fight
amongst themselves,
  
45:05 say, my guru is better
than your guru.
  
45:14 So you observe this,
 
45:16 that systems
make the mind mechanical,
  
45:24 they don't give you freedom.
 
45:27 They may promise freedom
at the end,
  
45:31 but freedom is at the beginning,
not at the end.
  
45:37 If you have no freedom
at the beginning,
  
45:40 to enquire
into the truth of any system,
  
45:48 then you are bound to end up
with a system,
  
45:53 and therefore a mind
which is incapable of subtlety,
  
45:58 swiftness, sensitivity.
 
46:04 So one can totally dispose
entirely of all systems
  
46:14 so that your mind
is really enquiring,
  
46:21 is really learning,
 
46:23 not according to any system,
 
46:26 any philosophy, any guru,
 
46:30 but being free to enquire,
 
46:35 to see what
actually takes place.
  
46:46 The mind,
 
46:50 which is the result
of thousands of years of thought,
  
47:02 that mind,
 
47:05 that thought wanders.
 
47:09 You want to fix your mind,
your thought, on a particular phrase,
  
47:14 a symbol, an idea, and so on,
and your thought wanders off,
  
47:21 and you say you must control it.
 
47:25 So again you have a battle,
 
47:28 you want to fix your mind
on something
  
47:32 and you're thinking about
the drive that you're going to take.
  
47:37 So there is conflict.
 
47:46 What is important
is not controlling thought
  
47:52 but understanding thought,
 
47:58 therefore understanding
the origin,
  
48:03 the beginning of thought,
 
48:09 which is in yourself.
 
48:14 That is,
 
48:27 the brain stores up memory,
 
48:32 you can observe this yourself,
 
48:34 you don't have to read
all the books about it,
  
48:38 your brain stores memory.
 
48:47 And if it hasn't stored memory
you wouldn't be able to think at all.
  
48:55 That memory is the result
of experience, knowledge,
  
49:03 whether yours
or of the community or the family,
  
49:08 and so on, of the race.
 
49:14 And from that storehouse of memory,
thought springs.
  
49:22 And thought is never free,
it's always old.
  
49:31 There is no such thing
as freedom of thought.
  
49:37 Thought can never be free
in itself,
  
49:40 it can express
or talk about freedom,
  
49:43 but in itself it is the result
of past memories,
  
49:48 experiences, knowledge,
and therefore it's old.
  
49:54 Right?
 
49:57 I mustn't say right.
 
50:08 One must have
this accumulation of knowledge,
  
50:14 otherwise you couldn't function,
you couldn't do a thing,
  
50:17 couldn't speak to each other,
 
50:20 couldn't go home, and so on -
knowledge is essential.
  
50:32 So, in meditation
one has to find out
  
50:43 whether there is an end
to knowledge
  
50:48 and a freedom from the known.
 
51:01 Because if meditation
is the continuation of knowledge,
  
51:11 that is, the continuation
 
51:13 of everything that man
has accumulated,
  
51:21 then there is no freedom,
is there?
  
51:26 There is only freedom
 
51:30 when there is an understanding
 
51:35 of the function of knowledge
 
51:40 and the freedom from the known.
 
51:56 We are enquiring
 
52:01 into the field of knowledge,
 
52:06 where it has its function
 
52:10 and where it becomes an impediment
to further enquiry.
  
52:23 If the brain cells
 
52:29 continue to operate,
 
52:33 and they can only operate
in the field of knowledge,
  
52:41 because that's the only thing
the brain cells can do,
  
52:47 it has known experience,
in the field of time
  
52:50 which is the past.
 
52:53 And to find out
if there is a field
  
52:57 which is not already
contaminated by the known.
  
53:07 This is meditation.
 
53:16 Are we meeting each other?
 
53:22 You see my point?
 
53:25 If I meditate
 
53:30 and continue
with what I have already learned,
  
53:34 with what I already know,
 
53:37 then I am living in the past,
 
53:41 living within
the field of my conditioning,
  
53:44 within the field
of what I have already known.
  
53:49 In that there is no freedom.
 
53:53 I may decorate
the prison in which I live,
  
53:58 I may do all kinds of things
in that prison,
  
54:03 but it's still a limitation,
a barrier.
  
54:11 So the mind has to find out
whether the brain cells
  
54:18 which have developed
through millennia in knowledge
  
54:25 can be quiet,
 
54:29 totally quiet,
 
54:34 and respond to a field,
a dimension it does not know.
  
54:49 Which means,
 
54:51 can the mind be totally still?
 
55:03 This has been the problem
 
55:06 of all the religious people
throughout the centuries,
  
55:12 because they realise
 
55:15 that you must have
a very quiet mind,
  
55:19 because then only you can see.
 
55:27 If you are chattering,
 
55:29 if your mind
is constantly in movement,
  
55:34 rushing all over the place,
 
55:37 obviously it cannot look,
it cannot listen totally,
  
55:44 that's simple.
 
55:46 To listen, to observe totally,
 
55:48 the mind must be
completely quiet.
  
55:53 So they say, control.
 
55:58 Control, hold it,
 
56:04 train it,
 
56:11 put it in a prison,
 
56:16 because they haven't found a way
 
56:19 of bringing about a mind
that is completely and utterly quiet.
  
56:34 They say control,
 
56:37 don't yield to any desire,
 
56:41 don't look at a woman,
 
56:44 don't look at a man,
 
56:50 don't look at the beautiful hills,
trees,
  
56:55 and the beauty of the earth,
 
56:59 because if you do, it might remind you
of the woman or the man.
  
57:04 Therefore control, hold
 
57:10 and concentrate.
 
57:17 And when you do all that,
concentrate,
  
57:20 don't look at the loveliness
of the earth,
  
57:24 of the sky, of the cloud,
 
57:30 you are in conflict,
 
57:34 and therefore more control,
more subjugation.
  
57:42 This has been going on
for a millennia,
  
57:46 for thousands of years,
 
57:50 because they all realise
they must have a quiet mind.
  
58:00 How does the mind become quiet,
 
58:05 without effort,
 
58:09 without control,
 
58:13 without being drilled,
 
58:21 without following, shaping,
 
58:25 giving it a border,
 
58:31 how to make the mind
 
58:34 - no, not how,
because the moment you ask how,
  
58:37 you are introducing a system,
 
58:41 therefore there is no how -
 
58:45 can the mind become quiet?
 
59:04 I don't know what
you're going to do about it,
  
59:11 when you see the problem,
 
59:13 when you see the necessity,
 
59:17 the truth of having a quiet,
 
59:22 delicate, subtle mind,
 
59:26 which is absolutely quiet.
 
59:33 How are you going to do it,
how is it to happen?
  
59:42 Because only such a mind
 
59:47 is a religious mind.
 
59:50 It is only such a mind that sees
the whole of life as a unit,
  
59:58 as a unitary movement,
not fragmented.
  
1:00:05 Therefore such a mind
when it acts, it acts totally,
  
1:00:11 not fragmentarily, because it acts
out of complete stillness.
  
1:00:20 How is that to happen?
 
1:00:24 That is the problem
of meditation.
  
1:00:30 You have laid the foundation
 
1:00:41 of a life
of complete relationship,
  
1:00:47 which we went into yesterday,
 
1:00:50 a life that is orderly
and therefore virtuous,
  
1:00:55 a life that is
extraordinarily, inwardly simple
  
1:00:59 and therefore totally austere.
 
1:01:05 Not the austerity of the priest
which is harsh, brutal,
  
1:01:12 but the austerity
of deep simplicity,
  
1:01:18 which means a mind
is not in conflict.
  
1:01:26 And when you have
laid that foundation,
  
1:01:31 easily, without any effort,
 
1:01:34 because the moment
you introduce effort
  
1:01:37 there's conflict,
 
1:01:39 because you see the truth of it,
 
1:01:42 and therefore
it is the perception of what is
  
1:01:47 that brings about
a radical change.
  
1:01:52 So when you perceive,
 
1:01:54 when the mind sees clearly
 
1:02:00 that it's only a quiet mind,
 
1:02:04 which means the brain cells
 
1:02:09 which carry the memories
of centuries,
  
1:02:12 they must also become quiet
and only respond when necessary,
  
1:02:19 and not otherwise.
 
1:02:26 Only respond when challenged
completely,
  
1:02:32 but otherwise remain
completely quiet.
  
1:02:37 That's the problem.
 
1:02:41 It's only a quiet mind,
a totally still mind
  
1:02:50 that understands.
 
1:02:52 In that still mind there is a movement
which is totally different,
  
1:02:58 of a different dimension,
of a different quality.
  
1:03:02 That can never be
put into words,
  
1:03:06 because that is indescribable.
 
1:03:12 But what can be described
is up to this point,
  
1:03:21 to the point when you have
laid the foundation
  
1:03:25 and see the necessity,
 
1:03:27 the truth and the beauty
of a still mind.
  
1:03:36 For most of us,
 
1:03:47 beauty is in something,
 
1:03:52 in the building, in the cloud,
 
1:03:56 in the shape of a tree,
in a beautiful face.
  
1:04:04 Is beauty out there,
 
1:04:08 or is it a quality of mind
 
1:04:23 that has no
self-centred activity?
  
1:04:33 Because like joy,
 
1:04:38 beauty is essential
in meditation,
  
1:04:41 the understanding of beauty.
 
1:04:50 And beauty is really
 
1:04:52 the total abandonment of the me.
 
1:05:00 And the eyes
that have abandoned the me
  
1:05:03 can see the tree
and the beauty of it,
  
1:05:07 and the loveliness of a cloud.
 
1:05:13 That is, when there is no centre
as the me.
  
1:05:20 It happens to each one of us,
doesn't it?
  
1:05:23 When you see a lovely mountain,
 
1:05:29 when you come upon it suddenly,
 
1:05:31 there it is.
 
1:05:34 Everything has been pushed aside
 
1:05:38 except the majesty of that hill.
 
1:05:44 That hill, that mountain,
that tree, absorbs you completely.
  
1:05:55 It's like a child with a toy,
 
1:06:02 the toy absorbs the child.
 
1:06:07 And when the toy is destroyed
 
1:06:09 the child is back again
in whatever he's doing,
  
1:06:13 in his mischief,
in his crying, etc.
  
1:06:16 Likewise with us,
 
1:06:19 when you see the mountain
 
1:06:23 or the single tree on a hilltop,
 
1:06:29 it absorbs you.
 
1:06:35 And we want to be absorbed
by something,
  
1:06:39 by an idea,
 
1:06:42 by an activity,
by a commitment,
  
1:06:49 by a belief,
 
1:06:52 or be absorbed by another,
 
1:07:00 which is
 
1:07:03 like the child with a toy.
 
1:07:14 Beauty,
which means sensitivity,
  
1:07:20 the body that is sensitive,
 
1:07:31 which means right diet,
 
1:07:35 right way of living,
 
1:07:40 I won't go into all that,
there's no time.
  
1:07:47 When you have all this,
and if you've gone that far,
  
1:07:51 and I hope you will,
or you are doing it now,
  
1:07:58 then the mind will inevitably
and naturally, unknowingly,
  
1:08:06 become quiet.
 
1:08:10 You can't make the mind quiet,
 
1:08:13 because you are
the mischief-maker,
  
1:08:17 you are yourself disturbed,
anxious, confused,
  
1:08:22 how can you make the mind quiet?
 
1:08:27 But when you understand
what quietness is,
  
1:08:32 when you understand
what confusion is,
  
1:08:36 what sorrow is,
 
1:08:38 whether sorrow can ever end,
 
1:08:42 when you understand pleasure,
 
1:08:45 then out of that comes
an extraordinarily quiet mind,
  
1:08:51 you don't have to seek it.
 
1:08:55 You must begin at the beginning
 
1:08:58 and the first step
is the last step,
  
1:09:03 and this is meditation.
 
1:09:26 Would you like to ask
any questions?
  
1:09:34 Yes?
 
1:09:45 Questioner: When you make the analogy
of the mountain, the hills,
  
1:09:52 the beautiful sky,
that's wrong for these people,
  
1:09:55 that's not the analogy for them.
 
1:09:57 The analogy is the dirt.
 
1:09:59 K: Right, take that, the analogy
of the dirty street of New York,
  
1:10:08 the analogy of the dirt,
 
1:10:12 the squalor, the poverty,
the ghettos, the war,
  
1:10:23 which we have made,
 
1:10:27 to which each one of us
has contributed,
  
1:10:31 we are responsible, each one of us,
for the war in Vietnam,
  
1:10:37 for the war in the Middle East,
in Pakistan,
  
1:10:40 each one of us is responsible.
 
1:10:45 You don't feel that way
 
1:10:51 because you have
separated yourself,
  
1:10:55 isolated yourself,
 
1:10:59 therefore having no relationship
with another
  
1:11:06 you become corrupt
 
1:11:09 and therefore allow corruption
to spread in the world.
  
1:11:15 That's why this corruption,
this pollution, this war, this hatred,
  
1:11:21 cannot be stopped by a system,
 
1:11:26 political, religious,
or any organisation.
  
1:11:29 You have to change.
 
1:11:35 Don't you see this?
 
1:11:39 You have to cease to be,
completely, what you are.
  
1:11:49 Not through will.
 
1:11:52 Meditation is the emptying
of the mind of will,
  
1:12:01 then totally different action
takes place.
  
1:12:08 Yes?
 
1:12:19 Q: If one can have the privilege
of becoming aware,
  
1:12:23 totally aware, shall I say,
 
1:12:25 how can we then help those
that are conditioned,
  
1:12:31 that have deep resentment
within them,
  
1:12:33 to become receptive and aware.
 
1:12:38 K: If one is privileged
to be totally aware,
  
1:12:42 how can one help another
to uncondition and so on.
  
1:12:47 Why, if I may ask,
do you use the word privilege?
  
1:12:52 What is there sacred or privileged
about being aware?
  
1:12:58 That's a natural thing,
isn't it, to be aware?
  
1:13:05 And if you are aware
of your own conditioning,
  
1:13:11 of the turmoil,
the dirt, the squalor,
  
1:13:15 the war, the hatred,
 
1:13:19 you know what is
happening in the world,
  
1:13:20 the tears,
 
1:13:25 the sorrow of those
poor people being killed,
  
1:13:29 the children, the mothers,
all that.
  
1:13:34 If you are aware of all that
 
1:13:38 you will establish a relationship
with another so complete,
  
1:13:43 so that when you are
so completely related to another
  
1:13:49 you are related to every other
human being in the world.
  
1:13:54 You understand this?
 
1:13:57 If I am related to my wife,
to my husband, to somebody completely,
  
1:14:04 totally, not as an idea or an image,
completely,
  
1:14:11 then I am related to every
human being in the world,
  
1:14:15 then I will see
I will not hurt another.
  
1:14:19 They are hurting themselves.
 
1:14:24 Then I can go,
 
1:14:28 preach, talk about it,
 
1:14:32 not with the desire
to help another,
  
1:14:40 that's the most terrible thing to say,
I want to help another.
  
1:14:46 Who are you to help another,
including the speaker?
  
1:15:03 The beauty of the tree
or the flower
  
1:15:08 doesn't want to help you,
it is there,
  
1:15:12 it is for you to look
at the squalor or at the beauty.
  
1:15:20 And if you are incapable
of looking at it
  
1:15:24 then find out why
you are incapable,
  
1:15:28 why you have become so indifferent,
so callous,
  
1:15:35 so shallow and empty.
 
1:15:43 If you find that out
 
1:15:45 then you are in a state
 
1:15:51 where the waters of life flow,
 
1:15:54 you don't have to do a thing.
 
1:16:11 Q: What is the relationship between
 
1:16:13 seeing things exactly as they are,
and consciousness?
  
1:16:17 K: What is the relationship between
seeing things as they are,
  
1:16:22 and consciousness.
 
1:16:30 Consciousness
 
1:16:33 is the content of it.
 
1:16:37 The content of consciousness
is consciousness.
  
1:16:49 Has everything
got to be explained?
  
1:16:58 That's a simple thing.
 
1:17:00 The content of your consciousness
is your greed, envy, ambition,
  
1:17:06 comparison, struggle, pain, sorrow,
all that is consciousness,
  
1:17:11 because the content of it
makes consciousness.
  
1:17:17 Remove the content,
 
1:17:20 is there consciousness
as you know it?
  
1:17:26 Of course not,
 
1:17:28 you only know consciousness
by its content.
  
1:17:33 And its content
is what is happening in the world,
  
1:17:38 of which you are a part.
 
1:17:43 Now, to empty all that
 
1:17:49 is not to have this consciousness
but a totally different dimension.
  
1:18:00 And that dimension
you cannot speculate about,
  
1:18:04 leave it to the scientists,
to the philosophers.
  
1:18:08 What we can do is to find out
 
1:18:12 whether it is possible
to uncondition the mind
  
1:18:17 by becoming aware,
 
1:18:24 by becoming totally attentive.
 
1:18:33 Q: I don't know myself
what love is or truth is or God is,
  
1:18:37 but when you describe it: love is God,
instead of love is love.
  
1:18:41 Can you explain
why you say love is God?
  
1:18:43 K: I didn't say love is God.
 
1:18:45 Q: Well, in your book,
I read one of your books.
  
1:18:47 K: Oh, I'm so sorry,
don't read books.
  
1:19:08 That word has been used so much,
 
1:19:12 loaded by man's despairs
and hopes.
  
1:19:21 You having God,
 
1:19:23 the communists have their gods,
 
1:19:27 loaded.
 
1:19:29 So find out, if I may suggest,
 
1:19:34 what love is.
 
1:19:38 You can only find out
what love is
  
1:19:43 by knowing what it is not.
 
1:19:46 Not knowing intellectually
but actually in life
  
1:19:51 putting aside what it is not:
 
1:19:54 jealousy, ambition, greed,
 
1:19:57 all the division
that goes on in life,
  
1:20:02 the me and the you,
 
1:20:05 we and they,
the black and the white.
  
1:20:13 You won't do it,
 
1:20:16 unfortunately,
 
1:20:19 you won't do it
because it needs energy.
  
1:20:25 And energy comes only
when you observe actually what is,
  
1:20:30 not run away from it.
 
1:20:34 When you see actually what is,
 
1:20:41 then in the observing of it
 
1:20:43 you have the energy
to go beyond it.
  
1:20:50 You cannot go beyond it
if you are trying to escape from it,
  
1:20:53 if you are trying to translate it,
if you are trying to overcome it,
  
1:20:58 just to observe
actually what is,
  
1:21:05 then you have
an abundance of energy,
  
1:21:11 then you can find out
what love is.
  
1:21:20 Love is not pleasure.
 
1:21:26 And to find that out,
 
1:21:28 to really inwardly
find out for yourself
  
1:21:32 that love is not pleasure.
 
1:21:35 You know what that means?
 
1:21:43 It means that there is no fear,
 
1:21:48 that there is no attachment,
 
1:21:51 no dependency,
 
1:21:55 but a relationship
in which there is no division.
  
1:22:05 Q: I would like, if you would,
 
1:22:07 to talk about the role of the artist
in society.
  
1:22:11 Does he serve a function
beyond his own function?
  
1:22:33 K: The role of the artist
in society.
  
1:22:45 Who is an artist?
 
1:22:51 Who paints a picture?
 
1:22:53 Writes a poem?
 
1:23:00 Who wants to express himself
through painting
  
1:23:06 or through writing a book,
a play?
  
1:23:12 Why do we divide the artist
from the rest of us,
  
1:23:21 the intellectual
from the rest of us?
  
1:23:25 Why this division?
 
1:23:33 Because we have placed
the intellectual at one level,
  
1:23:38 the artist perhaps
at a higher level,
  
1:23:41 and the scientist
at a still higher level.
  
1:23:47 And then we say,
what is their role in society?
  
1:23:51 The question is not
what is their role
  
1:23:54 but what is your role
in society,
  
1:23:59 because you have created
this awful mess.
  
1:24:07 What is your role?
 
1:24:11 Find out.
 
1:24:14 That is, find out
 
1:24:17 why you live within this world
of squalor, hatred and misery.
  
1:24:25 Apparently it doesn't touch you.
 
1:24:33 You have listened
to these four talks,
  
1:24:39 shared some of the things
together,
  
1:24:43 understood, let's hope,
a great deal.
  
1:24:49 Then you become
 
1:24:53 a centre of right relationship
 
1:24:57 and therefore
it's your responsibility
  
1:25:00 to change this terrible,
corrupt, destructive society.
  
1:25:09 Isn't it time now to stop?
 
1:25:18 What time is it?
 
1:25:24 Quarter past seven.
 
1:25:25 Any more questions?
 
1:25:28 Q: Could you go into
psychological time?
  
1:25:35 K: I will.
 
1:25:38 I've got it.
 
1:25:40 This is the last question,
I'm afraid.
  
1:25:42 I'll have to stop.
 
1:25:45 The questioner wants to know
what time is,
  
1:25:50 could you go into it.
 
1:25:56 Time is old age,
 
1:26:03 time is sorrow,
 
1:26:10 time doesn't heed.
 
1:26:17 So what is time?
 
1:26:21 There is chronological time
by the watch.
  
1:26:26 That must exist, otherwise
you won't be able to catch your bus,
  
1:26:31 cook a meal,
all the rest, time.
  
1:26:36 But there is another kind of time
which we have accepted.
  
1:26:45 That is we say,
 
1:26:48 tomorrow I will be,
 
1:26:52 tomorrow I will change,
 
1:26:56 tomorrow I will become.
 
1:27:00 Psychologically,
we have created time, haven't we?
  
1:27:08 You know, tomorrow.
 
1:27:11 Is there a tomorrow,
psychologically?
  
1:27:19 To put that question seriously
is a most dreadful question,
  
1:27:29 because we want tomorrow,
 
1:27:32 I am going to see you tomorrow,
 
1:27:36 I am going to have
the pleasure of meeting you tomorrow,
  
1:27:40 I am going to understand
tomorrow,
  
1:27:44 my life will be different
tomorrow,
  
1:27:49 I will realise enlightenment
tomorrow.
  
1:27:55 Therefore tomorrow becomes
the most important thing in our life.
  
1:28:03 You have had sex yesterday,
all the pleasures, all the agony,
  
1:28:08 whatever you have in that mess,
 
1:28:11 and you want it tomorrow,
 
1:28:13 because you want that same pleasure
repeated tomorrow.
  
1:28:19 So to put that question to yourself
and find out the truth of it,
  
1:28:25 which is,
is there a tomorrow at all?
  
1:28:29 Except - please follow -
thought projects tomorrow.
  
1:28:42 So, tomorrow is the invention
of thought as time.
  
1:28:50 And if there is no tomorrow
psychologically,
  
1:28:55 what happens to the life,
to today?
  
1:29:02 What happens today
if there is no tomorrow,
  
1:29:07 psychologically?
 
1:29:10 Then there is
a tremendous revolution, isn't there?
  
1:29:18 Then your whole action
undergoes a radical change,
  
1:29:25 doesn't it?
 
1:29:28 Then you are completely
whole now.
  
1:29:35 Then you are not projecting
from the past,
  
1:29:38 through the present,
the future.
  
1:29:45 That means to live,
 
1:29:49 dying every day.
 
1:29:55 Do it and you will find out
what it means
  
1:29:59 to live so completely today.
 
1:30:05 Isn't that what love is?
 
1:30:12 You don't say,
I will love tomorrow,
  
1:30:17 do you?
 
1:30:21 You love or you don't love.
 
1:30:26 So love has no time,
 
1:30:30 only sorrow has time.
 
1:30:35 Sorrow is thought as pleasure.
 
1:30:41 So to find out for oneself
what time is,
  
1:30:47 and find out
if there is no tomorrow.
  
1:30:58 Then there is a life
which is eternal,
  
1:31:01 because eternity has no time.