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OJ49T1 - Does self-knowledge come through searching?
Ojai, California - 16 July 1949
Public Talk 1



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s 1st public talk in Ojai, California, 1949.
0:09 Krishnamurti: I think it is very important that most of us should be earnest.
0:21 Those who come to these gatherings and people go to different meetings of this kind think they are all very earnest and serious, but I would like to find out what we mean by earnest, by being serious.
0:46 Is it earnestness, does it show seriousness if we go from one lecturer or a talker to another, from one leader to another, from one teacher to another, going from different group, passing through different series of organizations in search of something?
1:23 So, before we begin to find out what it is to be earnest surely we must find out what it is that we are seeking.
1:34 What is it that most of us are seeking?
1:45 What is it each one of us want? Especially in this restless world where everybody is trying to find some kind of peace, some kind of happiness, a refuge surely it is important to find out isn’t it what it is that we are trying to find, seek?
2:17 What it is that we are trying to discover? Probably most of us are seeking some kind of happiness, some kind of peace in a world that is ridden with turmoil, wars, contentions, strife we want some kind of refugee where we can… there can be some kind of peace.
2:55 I think that is what most of us want. And so we pursue, go from one leader to another, from one religious organization to another, from one teacher to another.
3:11 Now, is it that we are seeking happiness or is it that we are seeking gratification of some kind from which we hope to derive happiness?
3:26 Surely there is a difference between happiness and gratification.
3:40 Can you seek happiness, perhaps you can find gratification, but certainly you cannot find happiness.
3:47 Happiness is derivative, surely. It is… it is a byproduct of something else. So, before we give our mind and heart to something which demands a great deal of earnestness, attention, thought, care we will have to find out, mustn’t we, what it is that we are seeking and if it is happiness or gratification?
4:28 I am afraid most of us are seeking gratification. We want to be gratified. We want to find a sense of fullness at the end of our search.
4:56 Now, can you seek anything?
5:16 Why do we go to these meetings?
5:24 Why do we… why are you all sitting here and listening to me? It is really very interesting to find out why you are listening. Why do you take the trouble to come from long distance in a hot day and listen?
5:46 And to what are you listening?
5:57 Are you trying to find a solution for your trouble and therefore you go from one lecturer to another, from one… all religious organisation, or pick up books and so on so on.
6:13 Or are you trying to find out what is the cause of all this struggle, all this misery, contention, fight which surely does not demand that you should read a great deal, that you should attend innumerable meetings, or search out features.
6:40 What it demands is clarity of intention, doesn’t it? After all if you are seeking peace one can find it very easily, one can devote oneself blindly to some kind of cause, to an idea and take shelter there.
7:20 Surely that it doesn’t solve the problem. Mere isolation in an enclosing idea is not a release from conflict.
7:37 So, we have to find mustn’t we what it is inwardly as well as outwardly that each one of us want?
7:54 If we are clear on that matter then we don’t have to go anywhere to any teacher, to any church, to any organization.
8:12 And so our difficulty is… yes, it is not to be clear in ourselves of our intention.
8:30 So, can we be clear and that that clarity come through searching, through trying to find out what others say, from the highest teacher to the ordinary preacher in a church round the corner.
8:52 Have you got to go to somebody to find out? And yet that’s what we are doing, aren’t we?
9:18 We read innumerable books, attend many meetings, discuss, read, belong to the various organizations, trying to find out an answer to the conflict, to the miseries of our life.
9:43 Or if we don’t do that we think we have found that is we say that this particular organization, this particular teacher, this particular book satisfies me.
10:07 I have found everything I want in it and so we remain in there, crystallize and enclose.
10:19 So, we have to come to the point when we have to arch ourselves really, earnestly and profoundly if the peace, the happiness reality of god what you will can be given to you by somebody else.
10:52 Can this incessant search, longing give you that extraordinary sense of reality that creative being that come when you really understand yourself.
11:17 So, does self-knowledge come through any search, through any… following anybody else, through belonging to any particular organization, through reading books and so on?
11:38 After all that is the main issue, is it not, that as long as I do not understand myself I have no (inaudible) all my search will be in vain.
12:11 I can escape into an illusion. I can run away from contention, strife, struggle.
12:23 I can worship another. I then look for my salvation through somebody else, but as long as I am ignorant of myself as I am a… as long as I am unaware of the total process of myself.
12:50 I have no basis for thought, for affection, for action and that is the least thing, last thing we want, “to know ourselves”.
13:18 It is only that is the foundation on which you can build, but before we can bill, before we can transform, before we can condemn or destroy we must know what the thing that which we are.
13:38 So, to go out seeking, changing teachers, gurus, practicing yoga, breathing, performing rituals, following masters and all the rest of it is utterly useless is it not?
14:02 There is no meaning even though the very people whom you follow say ‘study yourself’.
14:20 Because what you are the world is.
14:27 You are petty, jealous, vain, greedy that you create about you, that is the society in which we live.
14:38 So, it seems to me before we setout on the journey to find reality, to find god, before we can act, before we can have any relationship with another which is society surely it is extensible that we should begin to understand ourselves first.
15:16 And I consider an earnest person is he who is completely concern with that first and not…
15:29 How to arrive at a particular goal because if… you and I do not understand ourselves how can we enacts, bring about a transformation in society, in relationship, in anything that we do.
16:08 And it does not mean obviously that is that self-knowledge is opposed or isolated from relationship.
16:29 It does not mean obviously emphasizes on the individual, the mean as opposed to the man, as oppose to another.
16:47 I do not know if any of you have seriously undertaken to study yourself watching every word and its return response, watching every movement of thought and feeling just watching it, being conscious of your bodily responses whether you act from your physical center or whether you act from an idea, how you respond to the world conditioning?
17:49 I do not know if you have every seriously gone into this question at all.
17:56 Perhaps some of you have.
18:03 Sporadically as a last resort when everything has failed abode you try this.
18:10 Now to really go into this question of knowing yourself because I think that is fairly obvious that without knowing yourself, without knowing your own way of thinking, how can you think about anything else?
18:59 Knowing why you think certain things. Knowing the background of your conditioning. Knowing why you have certain beliefs about god, about religion, about country, about your neighbor, about yourself.
19:26 Without knowing your background, without knowing the substance of your thought, from where it comes.
19:34 Surely, your search is utterly futile. Your action has no meaning, has it? Whether you are an American or a Hindu, or whatever religion you belong to there is no meaning.
19:55 So, before we can find out what is the end purpose of life, what it all means this conflicts, this wars, this national antagonism, this whole mess.
20:14 Certainly, we must begin with ourselves, mustn’t we? It sounds so simple, but it is extremely difficult because to follow oneself, to see how a thought operates one has to be extraordinarily alert.
20:49 Because as one begins to be aware more and more of intricacies of ones own thinking and responses and feeling.
21:07 One begins to have a greater awareness not only of oneself, but of another in who’s relationship you are.
21:19 To know oneself is to study oneself in action, which is relationship.
21:54 But the difficulty is that we are so impatient.
22:02 We want to get on. We want to reach an end and so we have not the time or the occasion or give upon, give ourselves the opportunity to study, to observe or we have committed ourselves so much to various activity, earning a livelihood, bearing children, given taken certain responsibilities with regard to organisations, committed ourselves in various ways so that we have hardly any time for self-reflection to observe, to study, to know.
23:23 So really responsibility of any action depends on ourselves not on another.
23:39 And to purse as in America and all the world over they are doing, changing there gurus, there organizations, reading the latest book on psychology and so on seems to me so utterly empty, so utterly futile.
24:00 (whistle sound). For you may wander all over the earth, but you have comeback to yourself.
24:13 And as most of… as most of us are totally unaware of ourselves.
24:27 It is extremely difficult to begin, to see clearly, the process of our thinking and feeling and acting and during these weeks that are to follow in which I am to talk that is the same I am going to deal with.
25:01 Because the more you know yourself the more clarity there is because self-knowledge has no end.
25:19 You don’t come to an achievement, you don’t come to a conclusion, it is an endless river and as one studies, as one goes into it more and more and more one finds peace and only when the mind is tranquil through self-knowledge, not through imposed self-discipline only then in the tranquility in that silence can reality come into being.
26:18 It is only then that can… there can be bliss, there can be creative action.
26:27 And it seems to me that without that understanding, without that experience merely to read books about it to attend talks, to do propaganda at least seem to me so infantile.
26:59 Just an activity without much meaning, but whereas if one is able to understand oneself and thereby bring about that creative happiness, that experiencing of something new that is not of the mind then perhaps each one of us can brig about a transformation in the immediate relationship about us.
27:52 That is the world in which we live. Do I have to be against special level of consciousness to understand you, to understand anything what is required, not only what I am saying, to understand anything, to understand yourself, to understand your husband, to your wife, to understand a picture, to understand the scenery, the tree.
28:51 What is required? Right attention, isn’t it? That is to understand something you must give your whole being to it, mustn’t you?
29:08 You are undivided, full, deep attention mustn’t you? And how can there be deep full attention when you are distracted?
29:27 When you are… for example, when I am talking taking down notes.
29:39 You catch a good phrase probably and say by Jove I am going to take that down I am going to use it in my talk.
29:48 How can there be full attention when you merely concern with words that is you are concentrated on the verbal level.
30:08 And are incapable of going beyond the verbal level. Words are the only means of communication.
30:22 But if you are not capable of communicating and merely sticking at words obviously there cannot be full attention therefore there is no right understanding.
30:36 So, it is an art is it not to understand something you must give full attention?
30:58 And that is not possible when there is any kind of distraction.
31:05 Taking notes, when you are sitting uncomfortably, when you are struggling to understand, making an effort.
31:30 So, making an effort to understand is obviously and again to understanding when your whole attention is gone into the making of the effort and also there is the… is an art, in listening is an art.
32:16 I do not know if you haven’t ever notice that when you are interested in something that is another saying you are not making an effort, you are not building up a wall of resistance against distraction.
32:38 There is no distraction when you are interested. You are completely giving your full attention almost easily, spontaneously to something that is being said.
32:56 That is, when there is vital interest, then there is a spontaneous attention.
33:17 But most of us find such attention very difficult because you may consciously on the upper level of the mind want to understand, but inwardly there is a resistance or inwardly there might be desire to understand and outwardly superficially there might be resistance.
33:45 So, to give full attention to something there must be integration of your thought be…
34:01 that is at one level of consciousness you might want to find out, you might want to know, but at another level the very knowing might be destruction.
34:31 That might make you change your whole life. So, there is an inward contention, inward struggle of which one is unaware though you think you are paying attention there is really a distraction inwardly going on or outwardly and that is the difficulty.
35:03 So, to understand anything one must give complete attention.
35:13 So, that’s what I have been suggesting at various meetings that no notes should be taken, that you are not here to do propaganda for mere point yourselves, that you should listen to understand.
35:42 So, to our difficulty in understanding is that our mind is never quiet.
35:58 We never look at anything quietly.
36:05 In a receptive mood. Lot of rubbish is thrown at us. Newspapers, magazines, politics, every preacher on the corner tells us what to do and what not to do and that is constantly pouring in; radios, magazines, newspapers, (inaudible) and naturally there is inward resistance to all this.
36:46 And, there is no understanding as long as there is a disturbed mind.
36:59 As long as the mind is not very quiet, silence, tranquil, receptive, sensitive it is not possible to understand and this sensitivity of the mind is not merely at the upper level of consciousness, on the upper or the superficial mind, but there must be tranquility like true, an integrated tranquility.
37:38 You know when you are seeing something very beautiful if you are chattering, obviously it has no meaning, but the moment you are quiet, the moment you are sense that thing then its beauty is comes to you.
37:57 Similarly if we want to understand something not only must we be physically very quiet, but also our mind must be capable of extremely, of extreme alertness and yet quiet, but alert facility of the mind is not… does not come about through compulsion.
38:40 You cannot train the mind to be silent. It is merely like a trained monkey. Inwardly boiling but outwardly very quiet.
38:57 (inaudible) and you must give your time, your thought, your being to something that you want to understand.
39:13 Can I understand the easier what you are saying, say by teaching it to others?
39:23 Can I understand easier what you are saying, say by teaching it to others?
39:42 You may learn by telling it to others a new way of putting things, a clever way of transmitting what you want to say, but surely that is not understanding.
39:55 If you don’t understand yourself, how in the name of names can you tell it to somebody else? Surely, that is propaganda isn’t it? You don’t understand but you tell others about it.
40:14 And do you think a truth can be repeated.
40:21 Do you think if you have an experience you can tell it to others, you may be able to communicate verbally, but can you tell others of your experience that is the experiencing of a thing, you may tell the experience, but not the state of experiencing in which you have had a state, a certain response.
40:50 So, a truth that is repeated seizes to be a truth.
40:58 It is only a lie that can be repeated.
41:08 But the moment you repeat the truth, it… it has no meaning.
41:18 And most of us are concerned in repeating and not in experiencing.
41:25 A man who is experiencing something is not concerned in the mere repetition, in science convert others, in doing propaganda.
41:46 You see, but unfortunately most of us are concerned with propaganda because through propaganda we not only convince others we gain a living, we exploit others, it gradually becomes a racket.
42:07 And that’s could (inaudible) another.
42:15 So, where as if you (inaudible) really are not concerned in the mere verbal communication, but occupied with really with experiencing a thing then you and I are in communion, but if you want to do propaganda and I say it cannot be, truth cannot be propagandized then there is no relationship between us.
43:08 And I am afraid that is our difficulty at the present time.
43:15 You want to tell others without experiencing and in telling you I hope to experience that mere sensation, that mere gratification that has no significance, that has no validity, no reality behind it.
43:46 But experiencing a reality when communicated has no bondage.
44:08 Then experiencing is much more important has greater significance than communicating on the verbal level.
44:20 It seems to me the movement of life is experienced in relationship to people and to ideas to detach oneself from such stimulation is to live in a depressing vacuum.
44:44 I need distraction to feel alive. It seems to me that the movement of life is experienced in relationship to people and to ideas.
44:57 To detach oneself from such stimulation is to live in depress… in a depressing vacuum. I need distraction to feel alive. Now, what… this question… in this question is involved the whole problem of detachment and relationship.
45:34 Now, why do we want to be detached?
45:42 What is this instinct in most of us that wants to push away, that wants to be detached?
46:02 It may be that to most of us this idea of detachment has come into being because so many of religions have talked about it.
46:16 That you must be detached in order to find…, that you must renounce… that you must give up… and then only will you find the reality.
46:40 And can you be detached in relationship?
46:56 What do we mean by relationship? So, we will have to go into this question a little carefully. Now, why have we this instinctive response, this constant looking through detachment.
47:23 The various religious teachers have said you must be detached, why?
47:36 First of all the problem is that is why are we attached?
47:44 Not how to be detached, but why is it that you are attached.
47:53 Really if you can find the answer and comeback then there is no question of detachment is there?
48:06 Now, why are we attached? Either to attraction, to sensation, things of the mind or of the heart and if we can find out why we are then perhaps we will find an answer, the right answer, not how to live with that.
48:37 Why are you attached? And what would happen if you are not attached? If you are not attached to your particular name, property, position, to your – you know? – the whole thing that makes up you, your furniture, your piece of your car, your characteristic, your idiosyncrasies, your virtues, your believes and your ideas what would happen?
49:14 You would find yourself if you are not… if you are not attached as being nothing wouldn’t you.
49:28 You are not attached to your comforts, to your position, to your vanity you would be suddenly lost, wouldn’t you?
49:40 So, the fear of emptiness, the fear of being nothing makes you attached to something.
49:48 It is primarily to a husband wife, to a child, to a car, it doesn’t matter what it is, to a country.
50:02 So, the fear of being nothing makes one hold to something.
50:19 And in the process of holding on to something there is conflict, there is pain, because what you hold is soon disintegrating, your car, your position, your property, your husband and through the process of holding there is… in the process of holding there is pain and in order to avoid pain we say we must be detached.
50:58 You look at yourself and you say this is so.
51:10 Fear of loneliness, fear of being nothing, fear of emptiness, makes us attached ourselves to something, to a country, to an idea, to a God, to some organisation, to a master, to a disciplined, to what you will.
51:26 And in the process of attachment there is pain and to avoid that pain we would like to cultivate detachment.
51:38 And so we keep up the circle. It is always painful… you know? there is always the sun. So, why can’t we be as (inaudible).
51:58 Not merely on the verbal level inwardly, be anonymous inwardly, inwardly.
52:05 Because there is no problem of attachment or detachment, is there?
52:27 And in that state can there be relationship that is the question one should know because it says without relationship to people and to ideas one lives in a (inaudible), is that so?
52:51 Is relationship a process of attachment? When you are attached to somebody are you related to that person?
53:06 When you… when I am attached to you, hold to you, possess you am I related to you?
53:25 You become a necessity to me because without you I am not, I am made uncomfortable, I feel miserable, I feel lonely.
53:58 So you become a necessity, a useful thing to fill my emptiness.
54:10 You are not important. What is important is that you fill my needs. And is there any relationship between two people when you only act as a need, as a necessity like a piece of furniture and is relationship… can one live, put it differently, can one live without relationship.
55:07 And is relationship merely accumulation, because without that which you call distraction you feel lost, you do not feel aligned that is you treat relationship as a distraction which makes you feel alive.
55:29 That’s what the question I said. So, can one live in the world without relationship? Obviously not. There is nothing that can live in isolation. I know most of us would like to live in isolation, but one cannot live in isolation therefore relationship becomes merely a distraction which makes you feel as though you are alive.
56:07 Quarrelling, having struggle, contention and so on with each other it gives one a sense of alive and so this relationship becomes merely distraction and you then the questioner says without distraction I feel I am dead therefore you use relations merely as a means of distraction.
56:45 And distraction, whether a drink, whether going to cinema, whether it is knowledge, any form of distraction obviously dulls the mind and the heart, doesn’t it?
57:00 A dull mind and a dull heart how can they have any relationship with another.
57:09 It’s only a sensitive mind and a heart that is awakened, affection that can be related (inaudible).
57:21 So as long as we treat the relationship as a distraction then you are obviously living in a vacuum because you are frightened, (inaudible) battle state of distraction.
57:55 And hence you are concerned and are afraid of any kind of detachment, any kind of separation because relationship then is a distraction which makes you or keeps you alive whereas relationship which is not a distraction is really a state in which you are….