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OJ49T2 - Relationship has significance only when it is a process of self-revelation
Ojai, California - 17 July 1949
Public Talk 2



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s 2nd public talk in Ojai, California, 1949.
0:08 As I was suggesting yesterday, we should be able to listen to what is being said with rejection, or with acceptance.
0:24 We should be able to listen so that, perhaps if something new is being said, you do not immediately reject it.
0:40 Which does not mean that you must accept everything that is being said, which would be really absurd.
0:48 Because, then we should be merely building up authority; and where there is authority, there can be no thinking, feeling; there can be no discovery of something new.
1:06 And, as most of us are inclined to accept something eagerly, without very careful understanding, there is a danger, is there not?, that we are apt to accept without considerable thought, investigation, looking into it.
1:31 And perhaps this morning I might say something new, or perhaps something put differently, which you might pass it by if we do not listen with that ease, with that quietness.
1:59 And I want to discuss this morning a subject which might perhaps be rather difficult: The question of action and activity, and relationship.
2:27 And then I will be answering questions. But before I do that, we have first to understand what we mean by activity, and what we mean by action.
2:55 Because our whole life seems based on action, or rather, activity---because I want to differentiate between activity and action.
3:13 We seem to be so engrossed in doing things; we are so restless, so consumed with movement, doing something at any cost, getting on, achieving, success.
3:48 And what has activity, what is its relationship to relation.
3:56 Because, as we were discussing yesterday, life is a question of relationship.
4:11 Nothing can exist in isolation} and if relationship is merely an activity, then relationship has not much significance.
4:34 I do not know if you have noticed, the moment you cease to be active, immediately there is a feeling of nervous apprehension; you feel as though you are not alive, alert, so we must keep going; and the fear of being alone---going out for a walk alone, being by yourself, alone without a book, without a radio, without talking} to sit quietly without doing something all the time with your hands or with your mind or with your heart.
5:35 So, to understand activity, surely we must understand relationship, must we not?
5:50 If we treat relationship merely as a distraction, as an escape from something else, relationship then is merely an activity, a distraction.
6:09 And is not most of our relationship merely a distraction, and therefore a series if activities involved in relationship?
6:33 As I said, also, relationship has significance only when it is a process of self-revelation, when it is revealing oneself in action of relationship.
7:03 But most of us do not want to be revealed in relationship: on the contrary. We use relationship as a means of covering up our own insufficiency, our own troubles, our own uncertainty.
7:19 So relationship then becomes mere movement, mere activity.
7:30 I do not know if you have noticed it for yourself, that relationship is very painful; and as long as it is not a revealing process, in which you are discovering yourself, then relationship is used as a means of escape from yourself.
8:13 And I think it is important to understand this, because, as we were discussing yesterday, the question of self-knowledge lies in the unfoldment of relationship: whether relationship to things, to people, and to ideas.
8:40 Can relationship be based on an idea?
8:49 And, any action based on an idea must be, surely, merely the continuation of that idea, which is activity.
9:05 Action is not based on an idea. Action is immediate, spontaneous, direct, without the process of thought involved.
9:23 But when we base an action on an idea, then it becomes an activity} and if be base our relationship on an idea, then surely such a relationship is merely an activity without comprehension, merely carrying out a formula, an activity, a pattern, based on an idea.
10:05 Therefore, relationship is always restricting, limiting, confining} because we want something out of that relationship.
10:29 Idea is, surely, is it not?, the outcome of a want, of a desire, of a purpose.
10:47 If I am related to you because I need you, physiologically ,or psychologically, then that relationship is obviously based on idea, is it not?; because I want something from you.
11:16 And such a relationship, based on an idea, cannot be a self-revealing process.
11:31 It is merely a momentum, an activity, a monotony, a habit, in which habit is established.
11:45 And hence, relationship is always a strain, a pain, a contention, a struggle, causing us agony.
12:00 And is it possible to be related without idea, without this demand, without ownership, possession?
12:20 Can we commune with each other, which is really a relationship, on all the different levels of consciousness, if we are merely related to each other on a desire, a physical or psychological desire, need?
12:51 And can there be a relationship without these conditioning causes, as want?
13:13 As I said, this is quite a difficult subject and difficult problem.
13:27 One has to go very deeply and very quietly into it. It is not a question of accepting or rejecting. We know what our relationship is at present---a contention, a struggle, a pain; or, mere habit.
13:56 If we can understand relationship with one, fully, completely, then perhaps there is a possibility of understanding relationship with the many, that is, with the society.
14:16 If I do not understand my relationship with one, I certainly shall not understand my relationship with the whole, with society, with the many.
14:30 And if ray relationship with the one is based on a need, on gratification, then my relationship with society must be the same.
14:47 Therefore there must be contention, with the one and with the many.
14:56 And is it possible to live, with the one and with the many, without this, without demand?
15:07 Surely, that is the problem, is it not?
15:16 Not only between you and me, but between me and society.
15:23 And to understand that problem and to go into it very deeply , one has to go into the question of self-knowledge; because, without knowing yourself as you are, exactly what is, obviously one cannot have right relationship with another.
15:53 Do what you will: escape, worship, read, go to cinemas, turn on radios, newspapers, do what you will---as long as there is no understanding of yourself, one cannot have right relationship.
16:10 And hence the contention, battle, antagonism, confusion, not only in yourself, but outside you and about you.
16:34 As long as we use relationship merely as a means of gratification, escape, as a distraction, which is mere activity, there can be no self-knowledge.
16:58 But self-knowledge is understood, is uncovered, its process is revealed, through relationship ---that is, if you are willing to go into the question of relationship and expose yourself to it.
17:19 Because, after all, you cannot live without relationship.
17:30 But we want to use that relationship to be comfortable, to be gratified, to be.
17:41 something. Which means, we use relationship based on an idea; which means, the mind plays the important part in relationship.
18:12 And as mind is concerned always to protect itself, always to remain within the known, it reduces all relationship to the level of habit or of security; and therefore, relationship becomes merely an activity.
18:43 So, you see that relationship, which is, if we allow it, a process of self-revelation; and since we do not allow it, relationship becomes merely an activity, which is merely gratifying.
19:24 And as long as the mind merely uses relationship for its own security, then that relationship is bound to create confusion and antagonism.
19:48 And is it possible to live in relationship without the idea of demand, of want, of gratification?
20:10 Which means , is it possible to love without the interference of the mind?
20:31 We love with the mind, our hearts are filled with the things of the mind; but surely, the fabrication of the mind is not love.
20:52 You cannot think about love. You can think about the person whom you may love; but that thought is not love.
21:02 So, gradually, thought takes the place of love.
21:18 And, when the mind becomes the supreme, the all-important, then obviously there can be no affection.
21:38 Surely, that is our problem, is it not?
21:47 That we have filled our hearts with the things of the mind.
22:01 And the things of the mind are essentially ideas: which should be, and what should not be.
22:14 And can relationship be based on an idea? And if it is, is it not inevitable that there should be contention, strife, and misery?
22:34 And self-enclosing activity? And if the mind does not interfere---which is extremely difficult, it is not just a determination, not a practice, a discipline, for the mind not to interfere; and the mind does not interfere only when there is full comprehension of the process of the mind---not erecting a barrier, or disciplining it, or suppressing it, or sublimating it.
23:31 Then only is it possible to have relationship in which there is no contention, and therefore a possibility of having a right relationship with society.
23:47 QUESTIO

N: I have gathered from your various talks, that thought must cease before there can be understanding.
24:01 What is that thinking that must comes to an end? What do you mean by thinking and thought? KRISHNAMURT

I: I hope you are interested in all this. After all, you should be, because that is what you are doing.
24:45 The only instrument we have is the mind, thought; and what do we mean by thinking?
24:56 What do we mean by thought? How does it arise?
25:06 What is its function? So let us investigate it together. Though I may answer it, please think it out, let us think it out together.
25:32 What is thought? Surely, thought is the result of the past, isn’t it?
25:48 Thought is founded upon the reaction of the past, of yesterday, and of many, many, many yesterdays.
26:03 You would not be capable of thinking if there was no yesterday.
26:10 So, thought is the result of the responses, conditioned responses, established in the mind as the past.
26:36 The mind is the result of the past.
26:48 That is, thinking is a response to memory.
27:06 If you had no memory, there would be no thinking.
27:16 If you had no memory ±a of the way to your house, you could not get there.
27:26 So thinking is the response of memory.
27:45 Memory is a process, a residue, of experiences---whether immediate, or of the past.
28:05 The experiences are contact, sensation, desire, which create experience.
28:30 That is, through contact and sensation, there is experience; that experience leaves a residue, which we call memory, whether pleasant or unpleasant, profitable and not profitable.
28:57 That residue, from that residue is a response, which we call thinking, conditioned according to different environmental influences, and so on, so on, so on.
29:21 That is, the mind, not only the upper levels of consciousness, but the whole process, is the residue of the past.
29:41 After all, you and I are the result of the past.
29:48 Our whole conscious process of living, thinking, feeling, is based on the past.
29:59 And, most of us live on the upper levels of consciousness, on the superficial mind.
30:18 There we are active, there we have our problems, innumerable contentions, and every-day questions, and so on, so on, so on.
30:37 And with that we are satisfied.
30:46 But surely, what is above, the little shown, is not the whole content of consciousness.
31:02 To understand the whole content of consciousness, the superficial mind must be quiet, even for a few seconds, a few minutes.
31:18 Then it is possible, is it not?, to uncover, to receive what is the known.
31:32 Now, if thought is merely the response of the past, then the thought process must cease for something new, must it not?
32:00 If thought is the result of time, which it is, then to have the intimation of the timeless, of something which you do not know, the thought process must come to an end, must it not?
32:29 To receive something new, the old must cease, must it not?
32:38 If you have a new picture, modern picture, and if you don’t understand it, you cannot approach it with your classical training; at least for the time being, you must put it aside to understand the new.
32:56 Similarly, to understand that which is new, timeless, the mind, which is the instrument of thought, which is the residue of the past, must come to an end; and the process of ending thought---though it may sound rather crazy---, is not come by discipline, is not come through so-called meditation.
33:44 We will discuss that presently, in the following weeks, what is right meditation, and so on. But we can see any action on the part of the mind to make itself come to an end, is still a process of thought.
34:07 So, this problem is really quite arduous and quite subtle to go into.
34:21 Because, there can be no happiness, there can be no joy, no bliss, unless there is creative renewal; and this creative renewal cannot take place if the mind is constantly projecting itself into the future, into the tomorrow, into the next second.
34:53 And, as it does all the time, most of us are uncreative.
35:03 We may produce babies; but inwardly creative, that extraordinary sense of renewal, that sense of new, a renewal in which there is constant newness, freshness, in which the mind is totally absent---that sense of creativeness cannot take place if the mind is merely projecting itself constantly into the future, into the tomorrow.
35:49 That is why it is important to understand the whole thought process.
36:06 Without understanding the thought process---all its subtleties, its varieties, its depth, —, you cannot come to the other.
36:20 You may talk about it, but you have to stop thinking---it sounds crazy.
36:27 But to have that renewal, that freshness, that extraordinary sense of otherness, the mind must understand itself.
36:43 And that is why it is important that there should be deeper and wider awareness of self-knowledge.