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OJ49T3 - If we had no belief what would happen to us?
Ojai, California - 23 July 1949
Public Talk 3



0:01 This is J. Krishnamurti’s 3rd public talk in Ojai, California, 1949.
0:14 Last Saturday and Sunday we were discussing the importance of self-knowledge; because, as I explained, I do not see how we have any foundation for right thinking without self-knowledge; how any action, however inclusive, however collective or individual it might be, there is no possibility of a harmonious and true action, without knowing fully oneself.
0:59 Without knowing oneself, there is no possibility of really searching out what is true, what is significant, what are the right values in life.
1:19 Without self-knowledge, we cannot go beyond the self-projected illusions of the mind.
1:32 Without self-knowledge, as we explained, in which is implied not only the action of relationship between the individual and another individual, but also the action of relationship with society, cannot bring about a complete, harmonious society, without this knowledge.
2:06 And so, it is really very important and significant that one should know oneself as completely and as fully as possible.
2:18 And, is this knowledge possible? Can one know oneself integrally, not partially, the total process of oneself?
2:35 Because, as I said, without knowing, one has no basis for thinking.
2:46 One gets caught in illusions: political, religious, social illusions, they are limitless, end-less.
2:57 And is it possible to know oneself? And, how is it possible to know, what are the means, what are the ways, what are the processes?
3:07 I think to find out what are the ways, one must find out first, must one not?, what are the impediments; and by studying what we take as important in life, which we have accepted---the values, the standards, the beliefs, the innumerable things that we have accepted and do accept---, and by examining them, perhaps we shall find out the ways of our own thinking, and thereby know ourselves.
3:55 That is, by understanding the things that we accept, and revaluing them, questioning them, going into them---in that very process we shall know the ways of our own thinking, our own responses, our reactions; and through them, we shall know ourselves as we are.
4:21 Surely, that is the only way we can find out the way of our thinking, the responses; only by studying, going into fully, the values, the standards, the beliefs, that we have accepted for generations.
4:46 And, seeing behind these values, we shall know how we respond, what are our reactions to them; and thereby perhaps we shall be able to uncover the ways of our own thinking.
5:06 In other words, to know oneself, surely, is to study the responses, the reactions that one has in relation to something.
5:22 One cannot know oneself through isolation. That is an obvious fact. You might withdraw into a mountain, or into a cave, or pursue some illusion on the banks of a river; but still, if one isolates oneself, there can be no relationship, and isolation is death; and it is only in relationship that one can know oneself as one is. So, perhaps by studying the things that we have accepted, by going into them fully, not superficially, then perhaps we shall be able to understand ourselves.
5:53 Now, one of the things that seems to me that most of us so eagerly accept and take for granted, is the question of beliefs.
6:13 I am not attacking beliefs. What we are trying to do this evening is to find out why the mind, why we accept beliefs; and by perhaps understanding the motives, the causation of acceptance, then we may be able to not only understand why we do it, but also be free of it.
6:47 Because, one can see, obviously, how political beliefs and religious beliefs, national and various types of beliefs, do separate people, does create conflict, confusion, and antagonism---which is an obvious fact, and yet we are unwilling to give them up.
7:07 There is the Hindu belief, the Christian belief, the Buddhist---innumerable sectarian, national beliefs, various political ideologies, all contending with each other, trying to convert each other.
7:26 And, obviously, one can see, that belief is separating people, creating intolerance} and is it possible to live without belief?
7:51 One can only find that out if one can study oneself in relationship to a belief.
8:09 Is it possible to live in this world without a belief?
8:18 Not change beliefs, not substitute one belief for another, but to be entirely free from all beliefs, so that you meet life anew each minute, which is after all the truth---to have the capacity of meeting everything anew, without the past conditioning reaction from moment to moment, so that there is not the cumulative effect which acts as a barrier between oneself and that which is.
9:02 Obviously, most of us accept or take on beliefs because, first, there is fear.
9:19 Because, we feel that, without a belief, we shall be lost.
9:28 Then, we use belief as a means of conduct, as a pattern, according to which we direct our lives.
9:46 And also we think that, through belief, there can be a collective action.
9:53 So, in other words, for action we think belief is necessary.
10:09 And is that so?
10:17 Is belief necessary for action?
10:27 That is, is belief, being an idea, is ideation necessary for action?
10:41 Which comes first, an idea, or an action?
10:50 Surely, action, then either it is pleasurable or painful, and according to that we build up various theories, and then from that, proceed to act.
11:04 Therefore, action comes first, surely, does it not, or invariably.
11:12 And, when there is fear, when there is the desire to ... in order to act, then the ideation comes in.
11:27 Now, if one considers, you will see that the desire to accept a belief, as I said, one of the reasons is fear.
11:48 Because, if we had no belief, what would happen to us?
11:57 Wouldn’t we be very frightened of what is going to happen? If we had no pattern of action, based on a belief---either in God, or in Communism, or in Socialism, or in Imperialism, or in some kind of religious formula, dogma in which we are conditioned---, we would feel utterly lost, wouldn’t we?
12:29 And is not this acceptance of a belief the covering up of that fear — the fear to be really nothing, to be empty.
12:54 After all, a cup is only useful when it is empty; and a mind that is filled with beliefs, with dogmas, with assertions, with quotations, is really an uncreative mind, it is merely a repetitive mind.
13:15 And, to escape from that fear---that fear of emptiness, that fear of loneliness, that fear of stagnation, not arriving, not succeeding, not achieving, not being something, not becoming something---, is surely one of the reasons, is it not?, why we accept so eagerly and greedily, beliefs.
13:46 And, through acceptance of belief, do we understand ourselves?
13:55 On the contrary. A belief, religious or political, obviously hinders the understanding of ourselves.
14:12 It acts as a screen through which you are looking at yourself.
14:19 And, can we look at ourselves without beliefs? If you remove those beliefs, the many beliefs that one has, is there anything to look at?
14:37 And, if you have no beliefs, with which the mind has not identified itself, and therefore the mind, without identification, is capable of looking at itself as it is--- then there is, surely, the beginning of understanding of oneself.
15:03 And, if one is afraid, if there is fear, which is covered over by a belief, and in understanding beliefs one comes face to face with fear, without the screen of beliefs, is it not possible to be free from that reaction of fear?
15:39 That is, to know one is afraid, and staying there, without any escape.
15:55 To be with what is, is surely much more significant, much more worth-while, than to escape from what is, through a belief.
16:11 So, one begins to see that there are various forms of escape from oneself, from one’s own emptiness, from one’s own poverty of being---such as knowledge, such as amusement, various forms of addictions and distractions, learned and stupid, clever and not worth-while.
16:43 And, we are surrounded by these, we are them; and if the mind can see the significance of the thing to which it has held, then perhaps we shall be face to face with what we are, as we are, whatever it is; and I think the moment we are capable of doing that, then there is a real transformation.
17:30 Because, then there is no question of fear} because fear only exists in relationship to something; when there is you, and something else to which you are related; and when you dislike that thing to which you are related and try to avoid it, then there is fear.
17:57 But when you are that very thing, then there is no question of avoidance.
18:04 A fact gives only fear when you bring an emotional reaction to it; but a fact, when faced as it is, there is no fear.
18:24 And, when what we call fear is no longer named, but only looked at, without giving it a term, then again, surely, there takes place a revolution, there is no longer that sense of avoidance, or acceptance.
18:56 So, in understanding belief, not superficially, but why the mind attaches itself to various forms of beliefs, why beliefs have become so significant in our lives: belief about death, about life, what happens after, if there is God, if there is no God, if there is reality, if there is no reality, various political beliefs--- are they not all indicative of our own sense of inwardly poverty?
19:58 And, do they not reveal a process of escaping, or act as a defense?
20:10 And in studying our beliefs, do we not begin to know ourselves as we are, not only at the upper levels of our mind, of our consciousness, but deeper down?
20:33 And so, the more one studies oneself in relationship to something else, as beliefs, the more the mind becomes quiet, without this false regimentation, without compulsion.
21:05 The more it knows itself, the more quiet it is, obviously. The more you know something, the more you are familiar with it, and the more the mind becomes quiet.
21:21 And it is only when the mind is really quiet, not made quiet surely, there is a vast difference between a mind that is made quiet, and a mind that is quiet.
21:36 You can compel a mind by circumstances, by various disciplines, tricks, and son, to make it quiet. But that is not quiet, that is not peaceful. That is death. But a mind that is quiet because it understands the various forms of fears, and because it understands itself, such a mind is creative, such a mind is renewing itself constantly.
22:11 It is only the mind that is self-enclosed by its own fears and beliefs, that stagnates.
22:22 But a mind that understands its relationship to the values about it--- not imposing a standard of values, but understanding it---, surely, such a mind becomes quiet, is.
22:40 quiet. It is not a question of becoming.
22:49 It is only then, surely, that it is capable of perceiving what is real from moment to moment. Reality is, surely, not something at the end, an end result of accumulative action.
23:08 Reality is to be perceived only from moment to moment, and it can be perceived only when there is not the accumulative effect of the past on the moment.
23:26 QUESTIO

N: Our mind knows only the known. What is it in us that drives us to find the unknown, reality, or God?
23:42 Our mind knows only the known. What is it in us that drives us to find the unknown, reality, or God?
23:55 KRISHNAMURT

I: Does your mind urge for the unknown?
24:03 Is there an urge in us for the unknown, for reality, for God?
24:16 Please, seriously think about it. This is not a rhetorical question, but actually let us find out.
24:27 Is there an inward urge in each one of us to find the unknown?
24:35 Is there? How can you find the unknown; if you do not know it, how can you find it?
24:50 Please, I am not being clever. Don’t brush it off that way. How can I, if there is an urge for reality, know what reality is, even if it is there right in front of my nose?
25:17 So, is there an urge? Or, is there only a desire for the known, expanded?
25:31 Do you understand what I mean?
25:38 I have known many things; they have not given me happiness, satisfaction, a joy.
25:49 So, I want something else that will give me greater joy, greater happiness, greater hope, greater vitality, what you will.
25:59 And, can the known, which is my mind---because, my mind is. the known, the result of the known, the result of the past---, can that mind seek the unknown?
26:14 If I do not know reality, the unknown, how can I search for it?
26:26 Surely, it must come, I cannot go after it. If I go after it, I am going after something which is the known, projected from me.
26:39 So, my problem is not what it is in us that drives us to find the unknown---that is clear enough, what it is: our own desire to be more secure, more permanent, more established, more happy, to escape from this turmoil, from this pain, confusion.
27:16 Surely, that is your obvious drive. And, when there is that drive, that urge, you will find it, you will find a marvellous escape, a marvellous refuge---in the Buddha, in the Christ, or in political slogans, and all the rest of it.
27:48 But, surely, that is not reality; that is not the unknowable, the unknown. Therefore, the urge for the unknown must come to an end, which means, the search for the unknown must stop; which means, there must be the understanding of the cumulative known, which is the mind.
28:28 The mind must understand itself as. the known, because that is all it knows.
28:36 You cannot think about something that you do not know. You can only think about something that you know.
28:49 And, our difficulty is for the mind not to proceed in the known; and that can only happen when the mind understands itself, how all its movement is from the past, projecting itself through the present, to the future.
29:22 It is one movement of the known; and, can that movement come to an end?
29:37 And, it can come to an end only when the mechanism of its own process is understood} when the mind understands itself and its workings, its ways, its purposes, its pursuits, its demands, not only superficial demands, but the inward, deep urges and motives--- which is quite an arduous task, it isn’t just one meeting, or one lecture, or one book, you are going to find out.
30:13 On the contrary, it needs constant watchfulness, constant awareness, of ever movement of thought---not only when you are waking, but also when one is asleep.
30:35 It must be a total process, not a sporadic, partial process.
30:48 And, therefore, the intention must be right.
30:59 That is, there must be clarification of the superstition that there is a search for the unknown, that inwardly we all want the unknown.
31:12 That is an impossibility, that we are all seeking God—-we are not.
31:27 We don’t have to search for light. There will be light when there is no darkness; and through darkness, you cannot find the light.
31:42 All that one can do is to remove those barriers that create darkness; and the removal depends on the intention; if you are removing in order to see light, then you are not removing, you are only substituting the word light for darkness.
32:02 Even to look beyond the darkness, is an escape from darkness.
32:13 So, we have to consider, not what it is that is driving us, but why there is in us such confusion, such turmoil, such strife and antagonism---all the stupid things of our existence.
32:43 When that is not, then there is. light, you don’t have to look for it. When stupidity is gone, there is intelligence. But the man who is stupid, trying to become intelligent, he is still stupid.
33:08 Surely, stupidity can never be made wisdom; only when stupidity ceases, then there is wisdom, intelligence.
33:22 But the man who is stupid and tries to become intelligent, wise, obviously can never be.
33:30 But to know what is stupidity, to go into it fully, not just Superficially -—completely, deeply, profoundly, all the different layers of stupidity: when there is the cessation of that, then there is wisdom.
33:53 So, what is important is not to find out if there is something more, something greater, than the known, which is urging us to the unknown; but to see what it is that is creating in us, confusion---the wars, the class differences, the snobbishness, the pursuit of the famous, the accumulation of knowledge, the escape through music, through art, through so many multifarious ways that we are doing: to see them as they are, and to come back to ourselves, and to be as we are, to recognize as we are.
35:02 Surely, from there we can proceed.
35:13 Then the throwing off of the known is comparatively easy.
35:22 Only when the mind is quiet, which is, when the mind is no longer projecting itself into the future, into the tomorrow, wishing something---only when the mind is really quiet, peaceful, profoundly, not superficially: then the unknown comes into being.
35:56 You don’t have to search for it. You cannot invite it. That which you can invite, is only that which you know.
36:07 You cannot invite an unknown guest. You can only invite one whom you know.
36:18 But you do not know the unknown, God, or reality, or what you will. It must come. It can only come when the field is right, when the soil is tilled.
36:40 But, if we till in order for it to come, then you will not have it.
36:51 So, our problem is not to seek the unknowable, but to understand the accumulative process of the mind, which is ever with the known.
37:23 And that is an arduous task, that demands attention, that demands an awareness constantly, in which there is no sense of distraction, of identification, of condemnation, but being with what is..
38:00 Then only when the mind, then only can the mind be still.
38:12 No amount of meditation, discipline, can make the mind still in the real sense of that word.
38:20 Only when the breezes stop, does the lake become quiet.
38:27 You cannot make the lake quiet. So, our job is not to pursue the unknowable, but to understand the confusion, the turmoil, the misery, in ourselves; and then, that thing darkly comes into being in which there is joy.