Krishnamurti Subtitles
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OJ49T6 - What is true religion?
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| 0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s sixth public talk in Ojai, California, 1949. |
| 0:09 Krishnamurti: I would like this morning to discuss what is true religion. And to find out what it is, we must examine our lives first and not superimpose on that life something we would think spiritual, romantic and sentimental. So let us examine our life to find out what we mean by religion, and if there is a means of finding out what is true religion. |
| 0:52 First of all, most of our lives are in conflict – we are in pain, we are in sorrow; our lives are boring, empty. And there is always death, and the innumerable explanations. And there is routine, a constant repetition of habit. Taken as a whole, it’s painful and tiresome, wearisome, and sorrowful, which is the lot of most of us. And to escape from that, we turn to belief, to rituals, to knowledge, to amusements, to politics, to activity – any form of escape from our daily tiresome, boring routine. 2:09 These escapes, whether it’s political or religious, must in their very nature likewise become tiresome, routine, habitual, because we move from sensation to sensation, and ultimately all sensation must be boring, must be tiresome. As our lives are mostly the response from physical centres, and as they have caused disturbance, pain, we try to escape from them into what we call religion, into spiritual realms. |
| 3:10 Now, as long as we are seeking a sensation in any form, it must eventually lead to boredom, because one is surfeited, one gets tired of it, which is again an obvious fact. The more sensations you have, the more tiresome at the end, the more boring, the more habitual. And is religion a matter of sensation? Religion being the search of reality, the discovery, the understanding, or the experiencing of the highest, is that a matter of sensation, a matter of sentiment, a matter of feeling? And to most of us religion is a set of beliefs, dogmas, rituals, organized formula of belief, and so on, in which there is the constant repetition of certain rituals, certain formulas. If you examine those, you will see again they are the outcome of the desire for sensation. 4:39 You go to churches or temples or the mosque and you repeat certain phrases, you indulge in certain ceremonies. They are all stimulating, they give you a certain kind of sensation and one is satisfied with those sensations, giving them a noble name but they are essentially sensation. And one is caught in those sensations, one likes those impressions, the feeling of being good, and repetition of certain prayers, and so on. But essentially, if one goes into it deeply and intelligently, one finds that they are basically sensation. 5:44 And though each sensation may have a different expression, give you a sense of newness, they are essentially sensational and therefore ultimately boring, tiresome, habitual, habit-forming. |
| 6:06 So obviously religion is not ceremony, religion is not dogma, religion is not the continuation of certain tenets or beliefs inculcated from childhood. Whether you believe in God or you don’t believe in God does not make you a religious person. Belief does not make you a religious person, surely. The man who throws an atomic bomb and destroys in a few minutes thousands and thousands, he may believe in God; and the person who leads a dull life and who also believes in God – surely they are not religious people, or the person who does not believe in God. 7:20 Surely, therefore, belief has nothing to do with the search of reality, which is religion, and the discovery and the experiencing of that reality directly. It is the experiencing of reality that is religion, and it does not lie through any organized religion, through any church, through any knowledge, either Eastern or Western. It is a capacity to experience directly that which is immeasurable, which is not to be put into words. And that cannot be experienced so long as we are escaping from life, from life which we have made it so dull, so empty, so a matter of routine. 8:26 And life has become a matter of routine, which is, relationship has become a matter of routine, because inwardly there is no creative intensity, because inwardly we are poor and therefore outwardly we try to fill that emptiness through religion, through amusement, through knowledge, through various forms of excitements. |
| 9:00 And that emptiness, that inward poverty can only come to an end when we cease to escape. And we cease to escape when we are no longer seeking sensation. Then we are able to face that emptiness. That emptiness is not different from us; we are that emptiness. As I was discussing yesterday, thought is not different from the thinker. The emptiness is not different from the observer who feels that emptiness. The observer and the observed are a joint phenomenon. And when you experience that directly, then we will find that thing which we have dreaded as emptiness, which makes us escape into various forms, including religion, they cease, and we are able to face it and be that. 10:41 It is because we are not capable of understanding the significance of escapes, how these escapes have come into being, and we have not examined them, gone into them fully. Because we have not done it, escapes have become much more significant, much more meaningful, than that which is. Because the escapes have conditioned us, and because we have escaped we are not creative in ourselves. And it is only when there is creativeness in us, that is, the experiencing of that reality constantly, not continuously, because there is a difference between continuity and experiencing it from moment to moment. 12:07 That which continues decays. That which is being experienced from moment to moment has no death, no decay. If we can experience something from moment to moment, it has a vitality, life. If we can meet life anew all the time, then in that there is creativeness. But to have an experience which you desire to continue, in that there is decay. |
| 12:59 Don’t you know, so many people who have had some kind of pleasurable experience, and they want that experience to continue… so they go back to it, they revive it, they look at it, they long for it, they’re miserable that it doesn’t continue, and therefore there is a constant decaying process in that, a rotting process, whereas if there is an experiencing from moment to moment, there is a renewal. It is that renewal that is creative. And you cannot have that renewal, that creative élan, if our mind is occupied and caught in escapes and in those things that we have taken for granted. 14:07 That’s why one has to re-examine the whole set of values that we have gathered. And one of the main gatherings in our life is so-called religion, which is so organized. And we belong to these various organized religions, or groups, or sects, or societies, because it gives us a certain sense of security. To be identified with the largest organization is satisfactory, or to the smallest. It’s only when we are capable of re-examining all these influences which are conditioning us, which help us to escape from our own boredom, from our own emptiness, from our own lack of creative responsibility and creative joy, it’s only when we have examined them and come back, and having put them aside, face that which is, then only, surely, we are capable of really going into the whole problem of what is true. 15:37 Which means, in doing that there is a possibility of self-knowledge. This whole process is self-knowledge; and it’s only when there is knowledge of one’s own process of thinking, feeling, action, then there is a possibility of thinking rightly. We cannot think rightly to be free from the process of thought. And to be free one must know oneself, therefore self-knowledge is the beginning of wisdom; and without self-knowledge there can be no wisdom. There can be knowledge, sensation, but sensation is soon wearisome, wearying boredom. 16:59 And that which is eternal wisdom can never be decaying, it can never come to an end. |
| 17:11 3RD QUESTION: Will you please carefully explain what is true meditation? There are so many systems of meditation. Are they really varied basically or are the variations due to personal idiosyncrasies of their proponents? |
| 17:58 This is really an important question, and if I may suggest, let us go into it together, because meditation has a great deal of significance, It may be the door to real self-knowledge, and it may open the door to reality. And in opening the door and experiencing it directly, then there is a possibility of understanding life, which is relationship. So meditation, the right kind of meditation, is essential. So let us find out what is right kind of meditation. And to find out what is right we must approach it negatively. 19:10 Merely to say, ‘This is right meditation’ will give you only a pattern, which you will adopt, practice, and that will not be right meditation. So as I am talking about it, please follow me and experience it as we go along together. Because there are different types of meditation – I do not know if any of you have practiced them, or have indulged in them, gone away by yourself in a locked room, sat in a dark corner, and so on and so on. So let us examine the whole process of what we call meditation. |
| 20:18 First of all, let us take the meditation in which discipline is involved. Any form of discipline only strengthens the self, and the self is the source of contention, conflict. That is, if we discipline ourselves to be something, to be as so many people do: ‘This month I’m going to be kind; I’m going to practice kindliness’. Such a discipline, such practice, is bound to strengthen the ‘me’. You may be outwardly kind, but surely a man who practices kindliness and is conscious of his kindliness is not kind. 22:02 So that form of meditation, which people call also meditation, is obviously not the right kind, because as we discussed yesterday, if you practice something, in that the mind is caught, and in that there is no freedom. But since most of us desire to acquire a result, that is, to be kind at the end of the month, or at the end of a certain period, because ultimately teachers have said, ‘You must be kind in order to find God’. And your desire is to find God 23:02 as the ultimate source of our security and happiness, so you buy God through kindliness, which is obviously the strengthening of the ‘me’ and the ‘mine’, which is a self-enclosing process. And anything that encloses, any action that is binding, can never give freedom. Surely that is obvious. Perhaps we can discuss it another time if it’s not clear. |
| 23:35 Then there is this whole process of concentration, which is also called meditation. Sit in your… crossed legs, because that’s the fashion from India, or in a chair, in a dark room, in front of a picture, or an image, and trying to concentrate on a word, on a phrase, or a mental image, and exclude all other thoughts. I’m sure many of you have done this. And the other thoughts keep pouring in, and you push them out, and you keep on with the struggle till you are able to concentrate at the exclusion, and exclude everything else. Then you feel gratified. 24:35 At last you have learned to fix your mind on a point, which you think is essential. Again, through exclusion do you find anything? Through exclusion, suppression, denial, can the mind be quiet? Because, as I said, there can be understanding only when the mind is really quiet, not suppressed, not so concentrated on an idea that it becomes exclusive, whether it’s a master, or some virtue, or what you will. Through concentration, fixation, the mind can never be quiet. Superficially, at the higher levels of consciousness, you may produce, enforce stillness, make your body perfectly still, your mind very quiet, superficially, but that surely is not the quietness of your whole being. 26:03 So again, that is not meditation, that’s merely a compulsion, putting on the brake constantly; when the engine wants to run full speed, you soften it, you put on the brake. Whereas if you are able to examine every interest, every thought that comes into your being, into your mind, go into it fully, completely, think every thought out, then there’ll be no wandering of the mind, because the mind has found the values of each thought, therefore it’s no longer attracted, which means there is no distraction. A mind that is capable of being distracted and resists distraction is not capable of meditation. 27:06 Because what is distraction? I hope you are experimenting with what I am saying, experiencing as I’m talking to find out the truth of all this matter. It is the truth that liberates, not my words and your opinions. |
| 27:34 We call distraction any movement away from that in which we think we should be interested. So you choose a particular interest, so-called noble interest, and fix your mind on it, but any movement away from it is a distraction, so you resist distraction. But what makes you choose that one particular interest? Obviously because it’s gratifying, because it gives you a sense of security, a sense of fullness, a sense of otherness, so you say, ‘I must fix my mind on that’. 28:37 And any movement away from it is a distraction, so you spend your life in battle against distraction and fix your mind on something else. Whereas if you examined every distraction, and not merely fix your mind on a particular attraction, then you will see the mind is no longer capable of being distracted, because it has understood the whole distractions as well as the attraction, and therefore the mind is capable of extraordinary extensive awareness without exclusion. |
| 29:28 So concentration is not meditation. And disciplining is not meditation. |
| 29:47 Then there are prayers, this whole problem of praying and receiving. That’s also called meditation. What do we mean by praying? Supplication, the gross form of it. And there are subtle forms at different levels of prayer. The gross form we all know: I’m in trouble, I’m in misery – physically or psychologically – I want some help. So I go, I beg, I supplicate. And obviously there is an answer. If there was no answer, people wouldn’t pray. Millions pray. You only pray when you’re in trouble, not when you’re happy, not when there is that extraordinary sense of otherness. |
| 31:04 Now, what happens when you pray? You have a formula, haven’t you? By repetition of a formula the superficial mind becomes quiet, doesn’t it? You try it, and you’ll see. By repeat a certain phrase or phrases, or words, and gradually you’ll see your whole being becomes quiet. That is, your superficial consciousness is calm, and then in that state it is able to receive, isn’t it, the intimations of something else. So through calming the mind by a repetitive word, by a repetition, by so-called prayers, you may receive hints and intimations, from not only the sub-conscious, from about you. 32:23 But surely that is not meditation. Because what you receive must be gratifying, otherwise you’ll reject it. So your desire when you pray and thereby quietening the mind is the result of the desire to solve a particular problem, or a confusion, or something which you have not solved, which gives you pain, therefore you are seeking an answer which will be gratifying; and reverse to that also is, because you say, ‘I mustn’t seek gratification. I will be open to something which will be painful’. 33:15 The mind is so capable of playing tricks upon itself that one must be aware of the whole content of this question of prayer. Surely, again, that is not meditation, is it? One has learned a trick, how to quieten the mind, which it can receive certain answers, pleasurable or not pleasurable. But that’s not meditation, is it? And this question of devotion to somebody, pouring out your love to god, to an image, to some saint, to some master – is that meditation? Why do you pour out your love to god, that which you cannot possibly know? 34:48 Why are we so attracted to the unknown, and give our lives, our beings, to that? This whole question of devotion, does it not indicate that, being so miserable in our own lives, having no right relationship with other human beings, we try to project ourselves into something, into the unknown, and worship the unknown? You know, those people who are devoted to somebody, to some god, to some image, to some master, are generally the most cruel people, obstinate. They are intolerant of others; they are willing to destroy others, verbally as well as physically, because they have so identified themselves with that image, with that master, with that experience. 36:23 So again, the outpouring of devotion to an object, self-created or created by another, is surely not meditation. |
| 36:39 So what is meditation? If none of these things are meditation – discipline, concentration, prayer, devotion – then what is meditation? Those are the forms which we know, with which we are familiar. But to find out that with which we are not familiar, we have to be free of these things of which we are familiar, – haven’t we? – first. If this is not true, then they must be set aside. Then only you are capable of finding out what is right meditation, isn’t it? If we have been accustomed to the false values, to find out the new value, the old values must cease, must they not? Not because I say so, 38:04 because you think it out, feel it out. Therefore if it is not these, and they have gone, what have they left? What is the residue of your examination of these things? Do they not reveal the process of your own thinking? Surely, if you have indulged in these things, and you see that they are false, you find out why you have indulged in them, and therefore the very examination of these things reveals the way of your own thinking, therefore the examination of these is the beginning of self-knowledge, is it not? |
| 39:09 So meditation is the beginning of self-knowledge. Without self-knowledge you may sit in a corner, meditate on the masters, develop virtues – they are illusions, and they have no meaning for the person who really wants to discover what is right meditation. Because without self-knowledge you’ll project yourself an image, call it the master, and that becomes your object of devotion for which you are willing to sacrifice, build, destroy. 40:08 Therefore through self-knowledge… and you can have… there is a possibility of self-knowledge only as we examine our relationship to these things which I have explained. Then it reveals the process of your own thinking, therefore there is a clarity in your own being, and therefore there is the beginning and the understanding of self-knowledge. Without self-knowledge there can be no meditation, and without meditation there can be no self-knowledge. 40:58 Not shutting yourself up in a corner, sitting in front of a picture, developing virtues month by month – different virtues each month, green, purple, white, and all the rest of it – or going to churches and performing ceremonies. None of those things are meditation or really spiritual life. Spiritual life begins in the understanding of relationship, which is the beginning of self-knowledge. |
| 41:40 Now, when you have gone through that and have abandoned all those processes which only reveal the self and its activity, then there is a possibility of the mind not only being superficially quiet but inwardly quiet, because there is a cessation of all demands. There is no pursuit of sensation. There is no sense of becoming – myself becoming something in the future or tomorrow. The master, the initiate, the pupil, the buddha, the… – you know? – climbing the ladder of success, becoming something, 42:34 all that has stopped because all that is implied in the process of becoming. And… there is a cessation of becoming only when there is the understanding of what is. And the understanding of what is is shown through self-knowledge, of what one is, exactly. And then, when there is the cessation of all desire, which can only come through self-knowledge, then the mind is quiet. |
| 43:23 The cessation of desire cannot come through compulsion, through prayer, through devotion, through concentration. All these merely emphasize the conflict of desire in the opposites. And when there is the cessation of all these, then the mind is really still, not only the superficial mind, the higher levels of the mind, but inwardly, deeply. Then only is it possible for it to receive that which is immeasurable. The understanding of all this is meditation, not just one part of it. Because if we do not know how to meditate we will not know how to act. Action, after all, is self-knowledge in relationship. 44:37 And merely to shut yourself in a sacred room, with incense burning, reading phrases of other people’s meditations and their significance, is utterly useless, has no meaning; it’s a marvellous escape. But to be aware of all this human activity, which is ourselves: the desire to attain, the desire to conquer, the desire to have certain virtues, all emphasizing the ‘me’ as important, in the now or in the future, this becoming of the ‘me’, being aware of all that in its totality is the beginning of self-knowledge and the beginning of meditation. 45:35 Then you will see, if you are really aware of this, there comes a marvellous transformation, which isn’t a verbal expression, which isn’t a verbalization, merely repetition, which is sensation, but actually, really, vigorously there takes place a thing which cannot be named, which cannot be termed. And that is not the gift of the few, not the gift of the masters, or a few people have it, because self-knowledge is possible for everybody, if you are willing to experiment, try. You don’t have to join any society, read any book, or be at the feet of any master… (Pause in recording) self-knowledge liberates you from all that, from all the absurdities, stupidities of human inventions. 47:07 And then only, through self-knowledge and right meditation, there is freedom. In that freedom there comes reality; but you cannot have reality through mental process. It must come to you, and it can only come to you when there is freedom from desire. |
