Krishnamurti - How can a shallow mind become deep?

Krishnamurti Subtitles

OJ66D3 - How can a shallow mind become deep?
Ojai, California - 14 November 1966
Public Discussion 3

0:00	This is J. Krishnamurti’s third public discussion in Ojai, California, 1966.

0:09	Krishnamurti: This is the last gathering,

0:15	and we were going to, this afternoon, to talk over things together, perhaps more in detail,

0:26	and go into one particular question or a problem to the very end of it.

0:40	I wonder what you would like to discuss or talk over together.

0:50	Madame? Q: Many of us here are involved in education.

0:56	I think we must find out what does it really mean to be an educator.

1:02	K: What does it really mean to be an educator.

1:12	Q: Let’s talk about dying to every moment. K: Let us talk about dying to every moment.

1:20	Q: Sir, how do you bring a cessation to psychic phenomena to those who have no desire to indulge in it?

1:25	K: Beg your pardon? Q: How do you bring about a complete cessation to psychic phenomena to those who have no desire to indulge in it...

1:31	K: How do you bring about an end to the psychic phenomena,

1:37	though you are not interested in it. Q: Correct.

1:42	Q: Please discuss the development of capacity.

1:50	K: Discuss the development of capacity. Sorry, sir. Q: Do you find any difference

1:57	between being emotional and being spontaneous? K: Do you find any difference

2:02	between being emotional and spontaneous. Yes, Dr? Q: Could we discuss the question of intensity and passion?

2:11	K: Could you discuss the question of intensity and passion.

2:16	Now, I think that’ll be enough...

2:24	I wonder if we cannot put all these questions

2:35	into one issue, into one problem.

2:48	I think we can, if we can go into this question

2:59	of a mind that is shallow;

3:08	and if the mind is no longer petty, narrow, limited,

3:15	then all these questions will be answered. Agreed? Is that right? Q: Right.

3:23	K: All these questions you’ll be… one will be able to answer for oneself.

3:29	So will those who have asked the questions, will they also agree with…

3:36	if we can discuss one thing that’ll include all this?

3:42	Yes, sir? Q: Sir, what is true blessedness? K: True blessedness. We’ll...

3:49	Right, sir, I’ll come to that. Shall we discuss one issue that’ll include all this?

3:55	Q: Yes. K: Right?

4:01	That is, how can a mind

4:11	that is rather dull, superficial, petty,

4:19	so terribly self-concerned, self-centred,

4:25	how can such a mind become deep – right? –

4:34	so that one answers the question from the very depth,

4:40	and therefore from a depth

4:49	that will answer all these questions. Right?

4:55	So if we can go into that, perhaps we shall be able to come upon it for ourselves.

5:11	First of all, what do we mean by a shallow mind,

5:19	a petty mind, a narrow mind,

5:24	a mind full of opinions, judgments,

5:32	full of its own self-concerned activities,

5:38	outwardly and inwardly?

5:45	Would you say such a mind is a shallow mind?

5:54	A shallow mind can be extraordinarily informed,

6:05	very clever, like a lawyer’s mind,

6:11	cunning, capable of argument,

6:19	sustaining a particular point of view with statistics,

6:30	specialised knowledge, and so on and on and on. Would you call such a mind a shallow mind?

6:44	Please, if I may suggest, don’t agree or disagree.

6:50	We are going to investigate, go into this question.

7:00	If we say such a mind is a shallow mind,

7:07	and all its activities, whether outward or inward,

7:17	is still shallow. Right?

7:26	No? Q: Self-centred.

7:31	K: Yes, sir. We’ll come to that. We’ll find out what it means to be self-centred.

7:40	I think I am – I hope you don’t mind... (takes off his coat)

7:46	– I think I am shallow-minded. I don’t admit it

7:53	– that’s a terrible idea to admit to oneself that I’m a very shallow, petty, bourgeois little mind –

8:00	but I see that. And I see such a mind,

8:08	though very well-informed about the world’s affair,

8:15	has many opinions, taking this side or that side,

8:22	committing itself to a particular activity, so-called spiritual, religious or political...

8:30	You follow? Now, I’m aware of that.

8:37	I’m aware that I’m rather a shallow person, petty,

8:45	very quick to react to… and safeguard my own pettiness,

8:55	justify it, or try to join something

9:06	or commit to a particular activity which gives the appearance of depth.

9:26	Please, I just want to, at the beginning, expose the question, and then we will discuss it, we’ll talk about it together.

9:34	We are inquiring what is a shallow mind.

9:42	I say to myself, because you have told me or I have become suddenly aware of this problem

9:52	that I’m a very shallow mind. My thoughts are very shallow, and I’m a do-gooder.

10:03	I don’t see the whole problem of the world. I see certain activity as a reforming activity

10:11	which will add a drop to this whole bucket of mess, confusion.

10:19	I see that, being shallow, narrow-minded,

10:27	I try to break through it. I try to acquire more knowledge, more information;

10:34	I read more books; I am able to talk about Mozart or Beethoven,

10:39	or some Indian music or some dancer or some artist, this and that and the other.

10:46	And I’ve got little gifts, capacities; I can develop those capacities,

10:55	because I see to have a good capacity gives me not only worldly position,

11:03	but also it makes me feel comfortable, makes me famous, and so on and on.

11:12	And also I see that, being narrow-minded,

11:19	I go to activities which are really narrow.

11:26	I support politicians,

11:31	canvass for them,

11:37	encourage others to be nationalistic, flag-waving; or I say, ‘This particular war is wrong,

11:46	but war, I like certain wars; I don’t like this war’.

11:52	Go into it, please; look at it. I take sides very quickly.

12:02	I am... I have got so many obstinate opinions which I justify,

12:14	because there are people around me who are also narrow-minded with their extraordinarily clever explanations,

12:22	and I say, ‘Look, So-and-So supported this idea’, and so on.

12:36	And, being aware of all this process,

12:43	if I do not commit myself to a particular political or a religious sects or groups,

12:55	then if I have committed myself to those, then I’m absolutely lost,

13:03	because they give me certain practices in meditation, in the way of philosophy,

13:09	what I should do, should not do, and I’m caught in that and that is my ultimate trap, and I’m lost in it.

13:22	If I don’t do that, and if I see other people who are committed

13:30	and see how silly it all is, then I question myself:

13:35	how is this mind, which is narrow, shallow, petty,

13:43	how is it to become deep? Right?

13:56	Would that be a natural, normal question? It would, wouldn’t it?

14:05	I see… No, that’s a simile; I don’t like...; let’s avoid it.

14:16	So my problem then is:

14:23	how is a shallow mind – and it’s aware it is shallow – how is it to become really very deep, very profound, very...?

14:33	What am I to do?

14:42	You understand my question? I see gathering information, getting terribly well-informed,

14:53	able to quote books, tell you, ‘That picture is better than that’, and go into the details,

15:00	the marvellous music and the musicians whom I know, don’t know.

15:05	You know? I know all that, and I say to myself: what am I do to do

15:12	to have a mind that is really very profound?

15:18	Right? That would be my normal question, wouldn’t it?

15:26	Do we say...? Do we...? Yes? Can we go on?

15:32	Right? Right. Now, look at the question, please.

15:42	A shallow mind is going to measure the depth

15:52	and it’s going to say what is profound. Right?

15:59	Right? Please follow this. It’s very important to understand this

16:05	if we’re going to discuss afterwards, go… talk about it.

16:11	Right? The moment it asks the question, ‘What am I to do to be profound?’

16:23	it has already put a wrong question, and therefore it will do things

16:30	that it thinks will make it profound. You...?

16:37	I don’t know if you’re following all this.

16:43	Let me... Just a minute, sir. Don’t begin yet to ask questions about it;

16:49	let’s talk it over together, think it over together first. I realise I am shallow, superficial,

17:04	and I like to be very profound.

17:16	Now, I say to myself, you have told me, ‘Look, you are a silly person,

17:23	because the moment you put that question,

17:28	you’re already caught in the trap of shallowness, because a shallow mind can’t possibly measure the depth’.

17:39	Right?

17:44	So I have put a wrong question, and without knowing it’s a wrong question,

17:54	I pursue that question, and therefore I think I’m becoming more and more and more deep.

18:02	I don’t know if you’re following all this – if I’m making myself clear, not that you’re following.

18:11	So I have put a wrong question. Right? So what is the right question?

18:33	Please, we’re not playing a clever game or being entertained for an hour by cunning thought.

18:44	This is a tremendous problem, you understand?

18:52	Q: Probably, rather than a question there is a realisation that, ‘Yes, I am shallow’.

18:58	K: Look.

19:03	When you realise you are shallow, then what?

19:13	Q: I feel emptiness, and I want... K: Sir, don’t use a different word.

19:19	Let’s stick to the same word, because we have understood it. Because if you bring emptiness,

19:24	then we have to explain what we mean by emptiness, and so on. Do please, let’s stick to one symbol and go through with that word.

19:33	Q: How does my mind get that way? K: What, sir? Q: What realises I’m shallow? How did this come about?

19:42	K: I’m… We are... The gentleman asks: how does a shallow mind realise that it is shallow.

19:49	Q:...what labelled it first. K: Ah, wait, wait. You have asked a question, sir; go into it a little bit;

19:54	you will see it in a minute. Either people have told me I am shallow,

20:06	therefore I say, ‘By Jove, I am shallow’, or I have discovered it. Right?

20:15	I have discovered it through comparison, don’t I? You are clever, not shallow; I am.

20:25	So I compare myself with you and say, ‘I am shallow’.

20:32	Right? And... – wait; please follow this –

20:38	is not comparison the very centre of shallowness?

20:49	Yes, sir? Q: It wouldn’t be complete... An individual as you describe would never say, ‘I am shallow’.

20:57	It is only the other person... K: I have said that just now, madame.

21:03	I have just now said, if somebody tells me I’m a shoddy little mind,

21:10	either I get angry, or because he’s a very clever man,

21:15	very so-called spiritual, or so-called intellectual, I accept it.

21:24	Or I say to myself, ‘I am shallow because I see you are very clever, very deep’.

21:37	In comparison to what I discover in you, I say, ‘I am shallow’.

21:44	Right? By comparing myself with you, I discover I am shallow. I don’t know if you are following all this. Right?

21:51	Q: Not necessarily comparison. K: Wait, wait! I’m taking one thing at a time.

21:57	Please. Q: They’re evaluating and judging and...

22:03	K: That’s right. So as long as I am evaluating, judging, comparing,

22:13	they are one of the factors that make the mind shallow.

22:20	Right?

22:26	So I don’t compare. You are following? I don’t compare.

22:32	Though you tell me I’m shallow, a shoddy little mind, I say, ‘All right’.

22:38	I don’t accept you; but I discover by comparing I am shallow,

22:46	and therefore I say, ‘By Jove, I must do something; I must become like you’,

22:54	and the becoming like you is the nature of shallowness.

23:01	I don’t know if you’re following. Right? Q: It’s a vicious circle.

23:09	K: Becoming like somebody – a hero, a saviour, a master,

23:17	a very, very erudite, scholarly person – becoming through comparison – please follow this –

23:25	becoming through comparison is the very nature of shallowness.

23:39	Q: But we continuously go between opposites instead of... K: Yes, sir, yes, sir; I know that.

23:44	So I reject… I don’t compare. Right?

23:50	I don’t compare. I don’t compare with ‘what has been’ or with ‘what should be’.

24:07	Right? Then I ask myself: if I don’t compare, if there is no hero, no symbol,

24:16	no person whom I’m imitating or conforming to, or who has informed me that I’m shallow,

24:24	therefore I am trying to be not shallow, when I reject all that – you understand? –

24:35	am I shallow?

24:47	Q: I think at that moment I’m alert to the problem. K: No, no... Not ‘at that moment’; we are doing it now.

24:54	We are doing it together now. Q: I mean that. K: All right.

24:59	Q: So I say, ‘So what? I’m shallow’. I realise I’m shallow, so what? K: No, please, you... Look what we have done.

25:07	Please, just... let us see what we have done,

25:13	the structure and the meaning of what we have done.

25:18	We put many, many questions this evening. And we say, look, let us… if we could answer...

25:26	all these questions will be answered if we could take one central issue;

25:33	and the central issue is, we said: a petty mind, a narrow mind, a shoddy, bourgeois little mind.

25:43	And we, more or less, pointed out what is a shallow mind.

25:50	And we said a comparative mind is a shallow mind.

25:57	Right?

26:07	Q: Does the mind always exist by seeking identity? K: What, sir? Q: Does the mind always exist

26:13	by trying to seek identity all the time? K: It is doing that. When I say, ‘I must be like him’, I’m seeking identity.

26:19	Q: So when we bring... K: Do see, sir: can... do we realise, not later but now,

26:27	that a comparative process indicates a shallow mind?

26:40	Q: Does a questing mind indicate a shallow mind? K: What? Q: A questing mind, or the...

26:49	K: Yes, sir… that... I’m... Please... We have a very short time, therefore let us...

26:58	Yes, sir? Q: Sir, I don’t have much time either. I would like to ask you a personal question. May I?

27:05	K: Wait, sir; wait, sir. All right. Q:...mind in the uncreated state of freedom, you find it

27:15	do you find it hard to communicate your thoughts to others? K: If they are listening, no.

27:29	Right. I realise all my life is a comparative process.

27:41	At school I have been told I must be better than that boy;

27:50	and, as I grow up, that is well-established through college, and so on and on.

27:56	And every advertisement says, ‘This is better than that’. ‘This toothbrush...’ – you know? –

28:03	better, better, better, better, better.

28:11	The ‘better’ is the destruction of the good.

28:18	But I’m caught in that: better. I must become the executive, I must become the bishop,

28:24	I must become the... – you know? – the colonel, and so on and on and on and on.

28:32	Now, I realise that this thinking in terms of ‘better’

28:42	is the nature of a shallow mind – right? –

28:48	so can I immediately stop thinking in terms of ‘better’?

29:00	Q: Sir, you... you are a man speaking to a mixed audience.

29:06	Do you not think that the solutions you have found for yourself as a man

29:12	might be different from the answers a woman has?

29:19	K: My...! Sir, it’s not a question of man and a woman,

29:28	it’s a question of able to think clearly,

29:34	able to see things as they are.

29:40	And I think one can look, whether you are a man or a woman, clearly,

29:46	if we give attention to it; and attention is not possible if we are emotional,

29:53	either womanly emotional or manly emotional, manly obstinacy, or… and so on, so on.

30:01	So let’s come back to this. Can I, who have been conditioned so heavily

30:11	to think in terms of comparison,

30:17	can I end that,

30:23	end it completely today, now? When I look at a picture, I look at a picture,

30:30	I don’t say, ‘That is by So-and-So, and that’s better than that’.

30:41	Can I do that? From now, never compare?

30:56	Of course, I do compare when I have to choose this pair of trousers or that pair of trousers,

31:04	but that’s… we’re not talking about that. We are talking at a deeper level which… at a psychological level, not a deeper lever. Right?

31:15	So psychologically, inwardly, I have been trained by society,

31:26	by… in school, in education, to compare;

31:32	and that is tremendously…

31:39	that has conditioned me tremendously. And I see that, and can I break it instantly?

31:53	Q: Yes. Q: No. K: Ah…! The questioner says, ‘No’,

32:02	and because he has said, ‘No’, he has already blocked himself. Q: That’s not true. K: Sir, please, sir... When you…

32:10	when we say, ‘No’, to something, we stop questioning. Perhaps you didn’t mean that; I may be...

32:19	But – I am generalising, sir, not saying you or me –

32:24	but when we say, ‘No’, or, ‘Yes’, we are already…

32:30	we have already stopped inquiring. That’s all, sir. Q: Must we not investigate further

32:36	and see what’s involved in the dropping of the comparisons?

32:41	K: We have done it just now, sir. You see, sir, I have to stop at a certain time

32:48	– four or quarter past four – and therefore we must proceed, otherwise...

32:57	Can I stop that, not compare anymore?

33:07	Q: It’s the only way. K: Yes, sir? Q:...I just, speaking for myself,

33:13	I go a lot on the mountain top and I get no outside influence, and I understand much of what you’re saying;

33:20	I’m just trying to ask you again: when you’ve reached the stage beyond the... ...when your mind is in the uncreated state of freedom,

33:26	do you find it hard to communicate your thoughts to friends, so to speak?

33:31	K: Little bit, sir. Let’s proceed... Yes, madame?

33:39	Q: To what do you ascribe the shallow mind? Isn’t that due to the human condition?

33:45	K: We have just now said that, madame. We have described the human conditioning.

33:58	And one of the walls of that human conditioning, that prison,

34:06	is this comparing, all my life.

34:17	Somebody is more beautiful than I, and so on and on and on.

34:23	And can I...? I see that; can I so immediately break it?

34:33	What breaks it is seeing the truth of this comparative process;

34:43	and to see the truth of it, you must be completely attentive at that moment.

34:53	And if one is completely attentive, it’s finished.

35:00	Q: For that moment. K: For that moment. No.

35:09	If you see... look... if you see danger, a precipice,

35:19	then you always are aware of precipices.

35:25	Right? You don’t say, ‘At that moment I’m aware of that precipice’.

35:34	But once you know the precipice, you are... I mean, it’s finished.

35:42	And… but you don’t see the comparative process is a most dangerous process,

35:50	and therefore you say, ‘At the moment I see it’, and fall back into it. But if one sees it as a tremendous danger, it’s finished.

36:03	Q: Aren’t you talking about the grosser comparisons? How about some of the subtler comparisons which one may not be aware of?

36:09	K: I... Of course, sir; sir, of course. Therefore, one has to see from moment to moment

36:20	how you are thinking. When you leave here, of course,

36:26	all the old habits of comparison comes into play; and at that moment, one comparison, at that moment, be aware of it.

36:36	Don’t say, ‘Oh, how terrible’. Be aware of that comparative thing immediately.

36:47	So... And we do comparative process, acquisitive process,

36:54	psychologically: the maintenance of anger, greed, and all the rest of it.

37:03	We say all that is the shallow mind. Now, is there a mind – please, next step –

37:12	is there a mind that is deep?

37:23	You understand my question? Have I explained my question? We have described what a shallow mind is:

37:30	its activity, its ways, its cunningness and what it is; we have drawn the dimensions, and all the rest of it.

37:40	Now, next thing is: is there depth?

37:50	Q: To call a mind deep would be comparing. K: Of course.

38:01	No; no, sir. You have understood my question? Have I made it clear?

38:06	Q: We don’t know if there is or not. K: You don’t know. But I’m asking you.

38:13	Q: We know only the shallow mind. K: Right. But we have said, ‘Comparative process, drop it’.

38:19	Then naturally you will ask – I mean, I would – ‘What is a deep mind?’ wouldn’t you?

38:29	Wouldn’t you? Why are you...?

38:39	Q: It would be a thought of the shallow mind. K: No, sir. You haven’t... Let’s go slowly, sir.

38:51	You see, the shallow mind, we’ve said, is the mind that’s always in action,

38:56	always in thought, comparing, judging, evaluating. Its very activity is born of thought.

39:09	And that thought says, ‘By Jove, I see that, then what is depth?’ Right?

39:22	Q: A mind that doesn’t think of itself.

39:29	K: Does that make for depth? A mind that doesn’t think about itself’.

39:35	But a mind that doesn’t think about itself may be committed to doing good work in Africa.

39:43	Q: It doesn’t qualify. No qualification.

39:50	K: No, you’re... Please. I’m asking myself: I see what a shallow mind is.

39:57	Then I begin to say, ‘Now, what is a really deep mind?

40:10	And am I going to find out through thinking?’

40:16	Ah no, don’t say, ‘No’, please.

40:23	So I begin… I discover something.

40:29	I can go into the shallow mind and its structure and nature,

40:36	through thought, through reason. Right?

40:42	And through thought I’m going to try and find out what a deep mind is.

40:47	Right? And is thought the instrument?

40:54	Which doesn’t mean I become romantic, I become mystical, I become – you know? –

41:00	spiritual, religious, and all the rest of it.

41:12	So I discover thought is not the instrument. Right? Right?

41:21	Because I have gone into it very, very carefully through reason, through thought,

41:27	that… what is a shallow mind. I see it very clearly, because I can reason healthily, normally, clearly,

41:38	and I say, ‘That’s obvious’. Now, I’ve got this instrument which is called thought, and with that I’m going to investigate what is deep mind,

41:47	what is a deep mind. And I say, ‘By Jove, what am I doing? I’m using the same instrument which has made for shallowness,

41:57	and with that instrument I am going to find out’. I don’t... Right?

42:03	So I say, ‘By Jove, I see: I can’t’. Right?

42:09	Thought is not the instrument to find out what is profound. Right?

42:22	Q: Without thought isn’t the way either. K: Wait, wait! Then what is the way, sir? Gentleman says, ‘Without thought...’

42:31	Q:...A quiet period isn’t the way either. K: I don’t know... We don’t know what the way is, sir.

42:37	Q: No, that’s what I say; I’m just posing... I’m trying to establish.

42:42	We just go from one set of opposites to another. K: We are not. I’ve dropped a whole process that makes for shallowness.

42:53	I see that very clearly. But thought remains.

42:59	And with that thought I inquire. And therefore I realise, ‘By Jove, thought isn’t it;

43:07	that’s not the instrument, that’s not the drill’.

43:13	Q: Action... K: No, no, please; do go step by step. Don’t jump to conclusions.

43:21	Q: Would you say... meditation? Going within?

43:27	K: Would you say meditation is the way? Look, please, I’m not pointing out a way.

43:35	If you follow a way, you are already shallow.

43:44	What we are trying to do is to see clearly how thought works,

43:52	which is comparative, acquiring information, knowledge,

43:58	joining this and that, and so on, so on; which is the monkey that’s always on a chain.

44:07	Right? And I see that. But the monkey still says, ‘I must investigate what is deep’;

44:18	and the monkey sets about asking what to do, what not to do, methods. You follow?

44:27	And I see, ‘By Jove, as long as there is an activity of the monkey,

44:40	it cannot possibly discover what is deep’, Right? And is there depth?

44:53	Q: Is not depth just the opposite? K: What? Q: Is not depth in itself a statement of opposites?

45:00	K: No, sir. We have been through all that, sir. Do... You understand? I have...

45:06	Being shallow, I realise what shallowness is. I realise it. It’s not a verbal statement, it’s not a conclusion;

45:13	it isn’t something which has been imposed on me or I have discovered, it is a fact;

45:20	and that fact has been created by thought.

45:25	And I say, ‘By Jove...’ Now, I... The monkey with that thought says,

45:31	‘I must be more profound; what is the way?’ Still it is the monkey, the thought. So I reject that.

45:40	Right? Because I say, ‘By Jove, as long as I use the instrument

45:46	which has created shallowness, it will also create depth which will be actually shallow’.

45:55	Right?

46:01	Q: With thought... separates and compares... K: No, sir. So what do I do?

46:13	What do I say, then? Then I say to myself, ‘By Jove, is there depth at all?’

46:22	Q: Not within the self. K: Please, please, sir, do… do… don’t answer me yet; do look at the question.

46:32	The shallow mind has realised it is shallow,

46:37	and now it has sought depth, and realises the seeker is the maker of shallowness.

46:46	Right? And the seeker says, ‘Is there depth at all,

46:54	which I have sought, sought, sought?’

47:04	So one discovers, if you have really gone that far, not verbally, not intellectually, not emotionally,

47:12	but really gone that far, then you will find there is neither shallow nor depth.

47:18	Ah no, no! Don’t agree, please. This is the most...

47:31	Being shallow, I have filled with activity

47:38	– the mind has filled itself with activity –

47:43	and that activity has made it extraordinarily alive, but it’s still shallow.

47:48	Now, I reject that kind of activity – comparative, and all the rest of it –

47:54	and then I am still seeking depth. It is still the activity of thought, and therefore it’s still shallow.

48:07	That is, that activity of seeking depth is now the content of the mind,

48:17	and therefore the seeking of the depth is still shallow.

48:23	Right? Sir… Yes? Q: You have spoken many words for many years

48:31	and written many words... K: I’m afraid so, sir. Q:...and I mean this quite sincerely,

48:38	not sarcastically at all... K: Oh, it doesn’t matter, sir. Q:...do you think you have come upon or spoken any original thought?

48:48	K: Oh, I wouldn’t know, sir. The gentleman says,

48:54	‘You have talked a great deal, written a lot of words. Do you think you are original?’

49:00	I never even thought about it. This is not humility, but it has never said, ‘By Jove, I’m original’.

49:11	I mean... No, sir, no…

49:20	So I realise and therefore I am dead…

49:26	there is death to comparative thinking, altogether.

49:32	There is death to seeking depth.

49:38	Therefore, what has happened to my mind?

49:49	It is no longer caught in the activity of the superficial,

49:55	now it’s no longer seeking in the activity of the depth,

50:01	so what has happened? The mind has emptied itself of all activity – right? –

50:08	superficial or profound.

50:15	Therefore it is empty.

50:24	And from that emptiness it acts; from emptiness,

50:30	not from comparative seeking or from the activity of depth.

50:40	Both the activities are superficial; both the activities are the activities of thought as the monkey.

51:01	Look, let’s look at it round the other way. I’m sorry I’ve taken so long. I hope... Do you want to ask questions in this?

51:09	Q: Sir, is the explosion in the mind that you talk about...?

51:16	K: Here it is, sir; that’s what we’re doing now. There is an explosion taking place now if you really go into it.

51:26	Q: The monkey cannot manifest thought. K: Ah, monkey is the thought.

51:32	It is not manifesting thought. Please, that’s only a word, ‘monkey’ or thought;

51:38	I just brought in that word, but doesn’t... Throw that monkey out.

51:47	So what has happened?

51:54	There is a state of mind, I see – you know? Not I see –

52:02	I have rejected totally all comparative thinking; totally.

52:10	I don’t compare myself with anybody:

52:16	with the masters, with the saviours, with the artist, with the hero, with the country – you know? –

52:24	I completely put that aside. Because it is dangerous,

52:31	and because it is the work of a shallow mind, it is dangerous, therefore I know the danger of that, all the time.

52:40	And when a dangerous thought of comparative thinking comes up,

52:46	I know immediately that’s a dangerous thought, and I walk away from it, without effort.

52:53	And also, I know comparative thinking... the search for depth is still thought at work.

53:03	The thought which has created the shallowness is now trying to create depth;

53:13	and it’s the same work. You understand? Whether you call it depth or shallow, it’s still the same.

53:21	Q: Sir, in your attitude towards the questioning I perceive a difference between what you see here,

53:27	and your image of what should be here. Am I right or wrong? K: What, sir? Q: In your attitude towards the questioners

53:34	I perceive in your mind a difference between what you see here and an image of what should be seen here.

53:39	K: Yes, sir, that’s... Q: Your impatience I... You seem impatient sometimes with the questioners...

53:45	K: Me? I am impatient? What, sir? I can’t understand. Q: Yes, that’s what he said.

53:51	Q: I say, I perceive as you look out here that your impatience with the questioners would seem

53:58	you’re comparing what’s here with what you think should here and you’re impatient with the questioners.

54:04	K: What is this? I can’t hear, sir. Q: He says you are impatient with the questioners. K: He says I’m impatient with the…

54:09	The questioner says I’m impatient with the questioner. Q: No; may I state a reason?

54:15	I say, you look here and you see this gathering, and I think your impatience is caused by the fact

54:21	that what you see here is a little different from your image, an image you have of what a proper question should be.

54:28	K: I am sorry. No, sir, I’m not doing that. Sorry; I’m not impatient, first of all. Look, our time is... I said at the beginning

54:36	– I’ll have to stop fairly quickly, at four o’clock or ten past four – and I said I’m not... It is, sir... We must get...

54:44	It’s like a fast horse is not impatient, it wants to run.

54:49	I can... It can... You can hold it, and say, ‘Look, hold on’.

54:55	We have done that, at different... I am… please, I’m not... All that I want…

55:02	Let’s go into this thing, which is not impatience. On the contrary,

55:08	I have gone into it very, very, very slowly, step by step.

55:14	So... And also he says I have an image about the audience. I haven’t.

55:19	I mean, it would be stupid on my part to have an image... So... let’s cut out all that.

55:25	Now... So I realise the activity of thought

55:35	creates both the depth and the shallowness.

55:49	And therefore, realising it, both activities stop.

55:55	I think when it is necessary, otherwise what’s the point of thinking?

56:05	I don’t know if you’re following. Or – wait, wait, wait! – no thinking at all.

56:11	Wait, sir, you’re not… you don’t go into all this.

56:19	You understand? I mean, sorry, not ‘you’ understand.

56:25	Sir, if one really puts away, not through effort,

56:33	because you see the thing very clearly, that thought breeds both the superficial and the depth;

56:41	if you see that, if you understand it, if one actually realises that

56:48	– as you would realise a toothache, actually realise it –

56:53	then both activities stop.

57:02	Then the mind is completely empty of such activity;

57:08	and these two activities, that’s what we are burdened with all the time.

57:16	That’s our life, our way of looking at life. And when you don’t look at life that way,

57:22	there is something entirely different, naturally: which is, your mind is completely empty of these two activities.

57:35	And it is not that that emptiness must be maintained;

57:41	and when you maintain anything, it is maintained by thought

57:46	because thought derives, from that, pleasure;

57:51	and therefore it is not empty of these two activities.

58:00	And so there is neither depth nor the shallow.

58:10	If one discovers that, you have discovered everything.

58:17	And so your mind, being empty, can function in this world, go to the office, have a family,

58:28	from that emptiness.

58:33	Right, sirs.