Krishnamurti Subtitles
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OJ66D3 - How can a shallow mind become deep?
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| 0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s third public discussion in Ojai, California, 1966. |
| 0:09 Krishnamurti: This is the last gathering, and we were going to, this afternoon, to talk over things together, perhaps more in detail, and go into one particular question or a problem to the very end of it. I wonder what you would like to discuss or talk over together. Madame? |
| 0:53 Q: Many of us here are involved in education. I think we must find out what does it really mean to be an educator. |
| 1:02 K: What does it really mean to be an educator. |
| 1:12 Q: Let’s talk about dying to every moment. |
| 1:16 K: Let us talk about dying to every moment. |
| 1:20 Q: Sir, how do you bring a cessation to psychic phenomena to those who have no desire to indulge in it? |
| 1:25 K: Beg your pardon? |
| 1:28 Q: How do you bring about a complete cessation to psychic phenomena to those who have no desire to indulge in it... |
| 1:31 K: How do you bring about an end to the psychic phenomena, though you are not interested in it. |
| 1:39 Q: Correct. |
| 1:42 Q: Please discuss the development of capacity. |
| 1:50 K: Discuss the development of capacity. Sorry, sir. |
| 1:53 Q: Do you find any difference between being emotional and being spontaneous? |
| 1:59 K: Do you find any difference between being emotional and spontaneous. Yes, Dr? |
| 2:06 Q: Could we discuss the question of intensity and passion? |
| 2:11 K: Could you discuss the question of intensity and passion. Now, I think that’ll be enough... I wonder if we cannot put all these questions into one issue, into one problem. I think we can, if we can go into this question of a mind that is shallow; and if the mind is no longer petty, narrow, limited, then all these questions will be answered. Agreed? Is that right? |
| 3:19 Q: Right. |
| 3:23 K: All these questions you’ll be… one will be able to answer for oneself. So will those who have asked the questions, will they also agree with… if we can discuss one thing that’ll include all this? Yes, sir? |
| 3:45 Q: Sir, what is true blessedness? |
| 3:45 K: True blessedness. We’ll... Right, sir, I’ll come to that. Shall we discuss one issue that’ll include all this? |
| 3:55 Q: Yes. |
| 3:58 K: Right? That is, how can a mind that is rather dull, superficial, petty, so terribly self-concerned, self-centred, how can such a mind become deep – right? – so that one answers the question from the very depth, and therefore from a depth that will answer all these questions. Right? So if we can go into that, perhaps we shall be able to come upon it for ourselves. First of all, what do we mean by a shallow mind, a petty mind, a narrow mind, a mind full of opinions, judgments, full of its own self-concerned activities, outwardly and inwardly? 5:45 Would you say such a mind is a shallow mind? A shallow mind can be extraordinarily informed, very clever, like a lawyer’s mind, cunning, capable of argument, sustaining a particular point of view with statistics, specialised knowledge, and so on and on and on. Would you call such a mind a shallow mind? Please, if I may suggest, don’t agree or disagree. We are going to investigate, go into this question. If we say such a mind is a shallow mind, and all its activities, whether outward or inward, is still shallow. Right? No? |
| 7:28 Q: Self-centred. |
| 7:31 K: Yes, sir. We’ll come to that. We’ll find out what it means to be self-centred. I think I am – I hope you don’t mind... (takes off his coat) – I think I am shallow-minded. I don’t admit it – that’s a terrible idea to admit to oneself that I’m a very shallow, petty, bourgeois little mind – but I see that. And I see such a mind, though very well-informed about the world’s affair, has many opinions, taking this side or that side, committing itself to a particular activity, so-called spiritual, religious or political... 8:30 You follow? Now, I’m aware of that. I’m aware that I’m rather a shallow person, petty, very quick to react to… and safeguard my own pettiness, justify it, or try to join something or commit to a particular activity which gives the appearance of depth. Please, I just want to, at the beginning, expose the question, and then we will discuss it, we’ll talk about it together. We are inquiring what is a shallow mind. I say to myself, because you have told me or I have become suddenly aware of this problem that I’m a very shallow mind. My thoughts are very shallow, and I’m a do-gooder. 10:03 I don’t see the whole problem of the world. I see certain activity as a reforming activity which will add a drop to this whole bucket of mess, confusion. I see that, being shallow, narrow-minded, I try to break through it. I try to acquire more knowledge, more information; I read more books; I am able to talk about Mozart or Beethoven, or some Indian music or some dancer or some artist, this and that and the other. And I’ve got little gifts, capacities; I can develop those capacities, because I see to have a good capacity gives me not only worldly position, but also it makes me feel comfortable, makes me famous, and so on and on. 11:12 And also I see that, being narrow-minded, I go to activities which are really narrow. I support politicians, canvass for them, encourage others to be nationalistic, flag-waving; or I say, ‘This particular war is wrong, but war, I like certain wars; I don’t like this war’. Go into it, please; look at it. I take sides very quickly. I am... I have got so many obstinate opinions which I justify, because there are people around me who are also narrow-minded with their extraordinarily clever explanations, and I say, ‘Look, So-and-So supported this idea’, and so on. |
| 12:36 And, being aware of all this process, if I do not commit myself to a particular political or a religious sects or groups, then if I have committed myself to those, then I’m absolutely lost, because they give me certain practices in meditation, in the way of philosophy, what I should do, should not do, and I’m caught in that and that is my ultimate trap, and I’m lost in it. If I don’t do that, and if I see other people who are committed and see how silly it all is, then I question myself: how is this mind, which is narrow, shallow, petty, how is it to become deep? Right? |
| 13:56 Would that be a natural, normal question? It would, wouldn’t it? I see… No, that’s a simile; I don’t like...; let’s avoid it. So my problem then is: how is a shallow mind – and it’s aware it is shallow – how is it to become really very deep, very profound, very...? What am I to do? You understand my question? I see gathering information, getting terribly well-informed, able to quote books, tell you, ‘That picture is better than that’, and go into the details, the marvellous music and the musicians whom I know, don’t know. 15:05 You know? I know all that, and I say to myself: what am I do to do to have a mind that is really very profound? Right? That would be my normal question, wouldn’t it? Do we say...? Do we...? Yes? Can we go on? Right? Right. Now, look at the question, please. A shallow mind is going to measure the depth and it’s going to say what is profound. Right? Right? Please follow this. It’s very important to understand this if we’re going to discuss afterwards, go… talk about it. Right? |
| 16:12 The moment it asks the question, ‘What am I to do to be profound?’ it has already put a wrong question, and therefore it will do things that it thinks will make it profound. You...? I don’t know if you’re following all this. Let me... Just a minute, sir. Don’t begin yet to ask questions about it; let’s talk it over together, think it over together first. I realise I am shallow, superficial, and I like to be very profound. Now, I say to myself, you have told me, ‘Look, you are a silly person, because the moment you put that question, you’re already caught in the trap of shallowness, because a shallow mind can’t possibly measure the depth’. 17:39 Right? So I have put a wrong question, and without knowing it’s a wrong question, I pursue that question, and therefore I think I’m becoming more and more and more deep. I don’t know if you’re following all this – if I’m making myself clear, not that you’re following. So I have put a wrong question. Right? So what is the right question? Please, we’re not playing a clever game or being entertained for an hour by cunning thought. This is a tremendous problem, you understand? |
| 18:52 Q: Probably, rather than a question there is a realisation that, ‘Yes, I am shallow’. |
| 18:58 K: Look. When you realise you are shallow, then what? |
| 19:13 Q: I feel emptiness, and I want... |
| 19:16 K: Sir, don’t use a different word. Let’s stick to the same word, because we have understood it. Because if you bring emptiness, then we have to explain what we mean by emptiness, and so on. Do please, let’s stick to one symbol and go through with that word. |
| 19:33 Q: How does my mind get that way? |
| 19:37 K: What, sir? |
| 19:37 Q: What realises I’m shallow? How did this come about? |
| 19:42 K: I’m… We are... The gentleman asks: how does a shallow mind realise that it is shallow. |
| 19:49 Q:...what labelled it first. |
| 19:51 K: Ah, wait, wait. You have asked a question, sir; go into it a little bit; you will see it in a minute. Either people have told me I am shallow, therefore I say, ‘By Jove, I am shallow’, or I have discovered it. Right? I have discovered it through comparison, don’t I? You are clever, not shallow; I am. So I compare myself with you and say, ‘I am shallow’. Right? And... – wait; please follow this – is not comparison the very centre of shallowness? Yes, sir? |
| 20:53 Q: It wouldn’t be complete... An individual as you describe would never say, ‘I am shallow’. It is only the other person... |
| 21:00 K: I have said that just now, madame. I have just now said, if somebody tells me I’m a shoddy little mind, either I get angry, or because he’s a very clever man, very so-called spiritual, or so-called intellectual, I accept it. Or I say to myself, ‘I am shallow because I see you are very clever, very deep’. In comparison to what I discover in you, I say, ‘I am shallow’. Right? By comparing myself with you, I discover I am shallow. I don’t know if you are following all this. Right? |
| 21:51 Q: Not necessarily comparison. |
| 21:54 K: Wait, wait! I’m taking one thing at a time. Please. |
| 22:00 Q: They’re evaluating and judging and... |
| 22:03 K: That’s right. So as long as I am evaluating, judging, comparing, they are one of the factors that make the mind shallow. Right? So I don’t compare. You are following? I don’t compare. Though you tell me I’m shallow, a shoddy little mind, I say, ‘All right’. I don’t accept you; but I discover by comparing I am shallow, and therefore I say, ‘By Jove, I must do something; I must become like you’, and the becoming like you is the nature of shallowness. I don’t know if you’re following. Right? |
| 23:05 Q: It’s a vicious circle. |
| 23:09 K: Becoming like somebody – a hero, a saviour, a master, a very, very erudite, scholarly person – becoming through comparison – please follow this – becoming through comparison is the very nature of shallowness. |
| 23:39 Q: But we continuously go between opposites instead of... |
| 23:41 K: Yes, sir, yes, sir; I know that. So I reject… I don’t compare. Right? I don’t compare. I don’t compare with ‘what has been’ or with ‘what should be’. Right? Then I ask myself: if I don’t compare, if there is no hero, no symbol, no person whom I’m imitating or conforming to, or who has informed me that I’m shallow, therefore I am trying to be not shallow, when I reject all that – you understand? – am I shallow? |
| 24:47 Q: I think at that moment I’m alert to the problem. |
| 24:50 K: No, no... Not ‘at that moment’; we are doing it now. We are doing it together now. |
| 24:56 Q: I mean that. |
| 24:56 K: All right. |
| 24:59 Q: So I say, ‘So what? I’m shallow’. I realise I’m shallow, so what? |
| 25:03 K: No, please, you... Look what we have done. Please, just... let us see what we have done, the structure and the meaning of what we have done. We put many, many questions this evening. And we say, look, let us… if we could answer... all these questions will be answered if we could take one central issue; and the central issue is, we said: a petty mind, a narrow mind, a shoddy, bourgeois little mind. And we, more or less, pointed out what is a shallow mind. And we said a comparative mind is a shallow mind. Right? |
| 26:07 Q: Does the mind always exist by seeking identity? |
| 26:10 K: What, sir? |
| 26:10 Q: Does the mind always exist by trying to seek identity all the time? |
| 26:16 K: It is doing that. When I say, ‘I must be like him’, I’m seeking identity. |
| 26:19 Q: So when we bring... |
| 26:23 K: Do see, sir: can... do we realise, not later but now, that a comparative process indicates a shallow mind? |
| 26:40 Q: Does a questing mind indicate a shallow mind? |
| 26:44 K: What? |
| 26:44 Q: A questing mind, or the... |
| 26:49 K: Yes, sir… that... I’m... Please... We have a very short time, therefore let us... Yes, sir? |
| 27:01 Q: Sir, I don’t have much time either. I would like to ask you a personal question. May I? |
| 27:05 K: Wait, sir; wait, sir. All right. |
| 27:10 Q:...mind in the uncreated state of freedom, you find it do you find it hard to communicate your thoughts to others? |
| 27:22 K: If they are listening, no. Right. I realise all my life is a comparative process. At school I have been told I must be better than that boy; and, as I grow up, that is well-established through college, and so on and on. And every advertisement says, ‘This is better than that’. ‘This toothbrush...’ – you know? – better, better, better, better, better. The ‘better’ is the destruction of the good. 28:18 But I’m caught in that: better. I must become the executive, I must become the bishop, I must become the... – you know? – the colonel, and so on and on and on and on. Now, I realise that this thinking in terms of ‘better’ is the nature of a shallow mind – right? – so can I immediately stop thinking in terms of ‘better’? |
| 29:00 Q: Sir, you... you are a man speaking to a mixed audience. Do you not think that the solutions you have found for yourself as a man might be different from the answers a woman has? |
| 29:19 K: My...! Sir, it’s not a question of man and a woman, it’s a question of able to think clearly, able to see things as they are. And I think one can look, whether you are a man or a woman, clearly, if we give attention to it; and attention is not possible if we are emotional, either womanly emotional or manly emotional, manly obstinacy, or… and so on, so on. So let’s come back to this. Can I, who have been conditioned so heavily to think in terms of comparison, can I end that, end it completely today, now? When I look at a picture, I look at a picture, I don’t say, ‘That is by So-and-So, and that’s better than that’. 30:41 Can I do that? From now, never compare? Of course, I do compare when I have to choose this pair of trousers or that pair of trousers, but that’s… we’re not talking about that. We are talking at a deeper level which… at a psychological level, not a deeper lever. Right? So psychologically, inwardly, I have been trained by society, by… in school, in education, to compare; and that is tremendously… that has conditioned me tremendously. And I see that, and can I break it instantly? |
| 31:53 Q: Yes. |
| 31:57 Q: No. |
| 31:57 K: Ah…! The questioner says, ‘No’, and because he has said, ‘No’, he has already blocked himself. |
| 32:06 Q: That’s not true. |
| 32:06 K: Sir, please, sir... When you… when we say, ‘No’, to something, we stop questioning. Perhaps you didn’t mean that; I may be... But – I am generalising, sir, not saying you or me – but when we say, ‘No’, or, ‘Yes’, we are already… we have already stopped inquiring. That’s all, sir. |
| 32:33 Q: Must we not investigate further and see what’s involved in the dropping of the comparisons? |
| 32:41 K: We have done it just now, sir. You see, sir, I have to stop at a certain time – four or quarter past four – and therefore we must proceed, otherwise... Can I stop that, not compare anymore? |
| 33:07 Q: It’s the only way. |
| 33:10 K: Yes, sir? |
| 33:10 Q:...I just, speaking for myself, I go a lot on the mountain top and I get no outside influence, and I understand much of what you’re saying; I’m just trying to ask you again: when you’ve reached the stage beyond the... ...when your mind is in the uncreated state of freedom, do you find it hard to communicate your thoughts to friends, so to speak? |
| 33:31 K: Little bit, sir. Let’s proceed... Yes, madame? |
| 33:39 Q: To what do you ascribe the shallow mind? Isn’t that due to the human condition? |
| 33:45 K: We have just now said that, madame. We have described the human conditioning. And one of the walls of that human conditioning, that prison, is this comparing, all my life. Somebody is more beautiful than I, and so on and on and on. And can I...? I see that; can I so immediately break it? What breaks it is seeing the truth of this comparative process; and to see the truth of it, you must be completely attentive at that moment. And if one is completely attentive, it’s finished. |
| 35:00 Q: For that moment. |
| 35:04 K: For that moment. No. If you see... look... if you see danger, a precipice, then you always are aware of precipices. Right? You don’t say, ‘At that moment I’m aware of that precipice’. But once you know the precipice, you are... I mean, it’s finished. And… but you don’t see the comparative process is a most dangerous process, and therefore you say, ‘At the moment I see it’, and fall back into it. But if one sees it as a tremendous danger, it’s finished. |
| 36:03 Q: Aren’t you talking about the grosser comparisons? How about some of the subtler comparisons which one may not be aware of? |
| 36:09 K: I... Of course, sir; sir, of course. Therefore, one has to see from moment to moment how you are thinking. When you leave here, of course, all the old habits of comparison comes into play; and at that moment, one comparison, at that moment, be aware of it. Don’t say, ‘Oh, how terrible’. Be aware of that comparative thing immediately. So... And we do comparative process, acquisitive process, psychologically: the maintenance of anger, greed, and all the rest of it. 37:03 We say all that is the shallow mind. Now, is there a mind – please, next step – is there a mind that is deep? You understand my question? Have I explained my question? We have described what a shallow mind is: its activity, its ways, its cunningness and what it is; we have drawn the dimensions, and all the rest of it. Now, next thing is: is there depth? |
| 37:50 Q: To call a mind deep would be comparing. |
| 37:55 K: Of course. No; no, sir. You have understood my question? Have I made it clear? |
| 38:06 Q: We don’t know if there is or not. |
| 38:09 K: You don’t know. But I’m asking you. |
| 38:13 Q: We know only the shallow mind. |
| 38:16 K: Right. But we have said, ‘Comparative process, drop it’. Then naturally you will ask – I mean, I would – ‘What is a deep mind? ’ wouldn’t you? Wouldn’t you? Why are you...? |
| 38:39 Q: It would be a thought of the shallow mind. |
| 38:45 K: No, sir. You haven’t... Let’s go slowly, sir. You see, the shallow mind, we’ve said, is the mind that’s always in action, always in thought, comparing, judging, evaluating. Its very activity is born of thought. And that thought says, ‘By Jove, I see that, then what is depth? ’ Right? |
| 39:22 Q: A mind that doesn’t think of itself. |
| 39:29 K: Does that make for depth? A mind that doesn’t think about itself’. But a mind that doesn’t think about itself may be committed to doing good work in Africa. |
| 39:43 Q: It doesn’t qualify. No qualification. |
| 39:50 K: No, you’re... Please. I’m asking myself: I see what a shallow mind is. Then I begin to say, ‘Now, what is a really deep mind? And am I going to find out through thinking?’ Ah no, don’t say, ‘No’, please. So I begin… I discover something. I can go into the shallow mind and its structure and nature, through thought, through reason. Right? And through thought I’m going to try and find out what a deep mind is. Right? And is thought the instrument? 40:54 Which doesn’t mean I become romantic, I become mystical, I become – you know? – spiritual, religious, and all the rest of it. So I discover thought is not the instrument. Right? Right? Because I have gone into it very, very carefully through reason, through thought, that… what is a shallow mind. I see it very clearly, because I can reason healthily, normally, clearly, and I say, ‘That’s obvious’. Now, I’ve got this instrument which is called thought, and with that I’m going to investigate what is deep mind, 41:47 what is a deep mind. And I say, ‘By Jove, what am I doing? I’m using the same instrument which has made for shallowness, and with that instrument I am going to find out’. I don’t... Right? So I say, ‘By Jove, I see: I can’t’. Right? Thought is not the instrument to find out what is profound. Right? |
| 42:22 Q: Without thought isn’t the way either. |
| 42:26 K: Wait, wait! Then what is the way, sir? Gentleman says, ‘Without thought...’ |
| 42:31 Q:...A quiet period isn’t the way either. |
| 42:34 K: I don’t know... We don’t know what the way is, sir. |
| 42:37 Q: No, that’s what I say; I’m just posing... I’m trying to establish. We just go from one set of opposites to another. |
| 42:47 K: We are not. I’ve dropped a whole process that makes for shallowness. I see that very clearly. But thought remains. And with that thought I inquire. And therefore I realise, ‘By Jove, thought isn’t it; that’s not the instrument, that’s not the drill’. |
| 43:13 Q: Action... |
| 43:17 K: No, no, please; do go step by step. Don’t jump to conclusions. |
| 43:21 Q: Would you say... meditation? Going within? |
| 43:27 K: Would you say meditation is the way? Look, please, I’m not pointing out a way. If you follow a way, you are already shallow. What we are trying to do is to see clearly how thought works, which is comparative, acquiring information, knowledge, joining this and that, and so on, so on; which is the monkey that’s always on a chain. Right? And I see that. But the monkey still says, ‘I must investigate what is deep’; and the monkey sets about asking what to do, what not to do, methods. You follow? And I see, ‘By Jove, as long as there is an activity of the monkey, it cannot possibly discover what is deep’, Right? And is there depth? |
| 44:53 Q: Is not depth just the opposite? |
| 44:56 K: What? |
| 44:56 Q: Is not depth in itself a statement of opposites? |
| 45:00 K: No, sir. We have been through all that, sir. Do... You understand? I have... Being shallow, I realise what shallowness is. I realise it. It’s not a verbal statement, it’s not a conclusion; it isn’t something which has been imposed on me or I have discovered, it is a fact; and that fact has been created by thought. And I say, ‘By Jove...’ Now, I... The monkey with that thought says, ‘I must be more profound; what is the way? ’ Still it is the monkey, the thought. So I reject that. Right? Because I say, ‘By Jove, as long as I use the instrument which has created shallowness, it will also create depth which will be actually shallow’. Right? |
| 46:01 Q: With thought... separates and compares... |
| 46:07 K: No, sir. So what do I do? What do I say, then? Then I say to myself, ‘By Jove, is there depth at all?’ |
| 46:22 Q: Not within the self. |
| 46:27 K: Please, please, sir, do… do… don’t answer me yet; do look at the question. The shallow mind has realised it is shallow, and now it has sought depth, and realises the seeker is the maker of shallowness. Right? And the seeker says, ‘Is there depth at all, which I have sought, sought, sought?’ So one discovers, if you have really gone that far, not verbally, not intellectually, not emotionally, but really gone that far, then you will find there is neither shallow nor depth. 47:18 Ah no, no! Don’t agree, please. This is the most... Being shallow, I have filled with activity – the mind has filled itself with activity – and that activity has made it extraordinarily alive, but it’s still shallow. Now, I reject that kind of activity – comparative, and all the rest of it – and then I am still seeking depth. It is still the activity of thought, and therefore it’s still shallow. That is, that activity of seeking depth is now the content of the mind, and therefore the seeking of the depth is still shallow. Right? Sir… Yes? |
| 48:27 Q: You have spoken many words for many years and written many words... |
| 48:34 K: I’m afraid so, sir. |
| 48:34 Q:...and I mean this quite sincerely, not sarcastically at all... |
| 48:43 K: Oh, it doesn’t matter, sir. |
| 48:43 Q:...do you think you have come upon or spoken any original thought? |
| 48:48 K: Oh, I wouldn’t know, sir. The gentleman says, ‘You have talked a great deal, written a lot of words. Do you think you are original?’ I never even thought about it. This is not humility, but it has never said, ‘By Jove, I’m original’. I mean... No, sir, no… So I realise and therefore I am dead… there is death to comparative thinking, altogether. There is death to seeking depth. Therefore, what has happened to my mind? It is no longer caught in the activity of the superficial, now it’s no longer seeking in the activity of the depth, so what has happened? The mind has emptied itself of all activity – right? – 50:08 superficial or profound. Therefore it is empty. And from that emptiness it acts; from emptiness, not from comparative seeking or from the activity of depth. Both the activities are superficial; both the activities are the activities of thought as the monkey. Look, let’s look at it round the other way. I’m sorry I’ve taken so long. I hope... Do you want to ask questions in this? |
| 51:09 Q: Sir, is the explosion in the mind that you talk about...? |
| 51:16 K: Here it is, sir; that’s what we’re doing now. There is an explosion taking place now if you really go into it. |
| 51:26 Q: The monkey cannot manifest thought. |
| 51:29 K: Ah, monkey is the thought. It is not manifesting thought. Please, that’s only a word, ‘monkey’ or thought; I just brought in that word, but doesn’t... Throw that monkey out. So what has happened? There is a state of mind, I see – you know? Not I see – I have rejected totally all comparative thinking; totally. I don’t compare myself with anybody: with the masters, with the saviours, with the artist, with the hero, with the country – you know? – I completely put that aside. Because it is dangerous, and because it is the work of a shallow mind, it is dangerous, therefore I know the danger of that, all the time. 52:40 And when a dangerous thought of comparative thinking comes up, I know immediately that’s a dangerous thought, and I walk away from it, without effort. And also, I know comparative thinking... the search for depth is still thought at work. The thought which has created the shallowness is now trying to create depth; and it’s the same work. You understand? Whether you call it depth or shallow, it’s still the same. |
| 53:21 Q: Sir, in your attitude towards the questioning I perceive a difference between what you see here, and your image of what should be here. Am I right or wrong? |
| 53:30 K: What, sir? |
| 53:30 Q: In your attitude towards the questioners I perceive in your mind a difference between what you see here and an image of what should be seen here. |
| 53:39 K: Yes, sir, that’s... |
| 53:42 Q: Your impatience I... You seem impatient sometimes with the questioners... |
| 53:45 K: Me? I am impatient? What, sir? I can’t understand. |
| 53:48 Q: Yes, that’s what he said. |
| 53:51 Q: I say, I perceive as you look out here that your impatience with the questioners would seem you’re comparing what’s here with what you think should here and you’re impatient with the questioners. |
| 54:04 K: What is this? I can’t hear, sir. |
| 54:06 Q: He says you are impatient with the questioners. |
| 54:06 K: He says I’m impatient with the… The questioner says I’m impatient with the questioner. |
| 54:12 Q: No; may I state a reason? I say, you look here and you see this gathering, and I think your impatience is caused by the fact that what you see here is a little different from your image, an image you have of what a proper question should be. |
| 54:28 K: I am sorry. No, sir, I’m not doing that. Sorry; I’m not impatient, first of all. Look, our time is... I said at the beginning – I’ll have to stop fairly quickly, at four o’clock or ten past four – and I said I’m not... It is, sir... We must get... It’s like a fast horse is not impatient, it wants to run. I can... It can... You can hold it, and say, ‘Look, hold on’. We have done that, at different... I am… please, I’m not... All that I want… Let’s go into this thing, which is not impatience. On the contrary, I have gone into it very, very, very slowly, step by step. 55:14 So... And also he says I have an image about the audience. I haven’t. I mean, it would be stupid on my part to have an image... So... let’s cut out all that. Now... So I realise the activity of thought creates both the depth and the shallowness. And therefore, realising it, both activities stop. I think when it is necessary, otherwise what’s the point of thinking? I don’t know if you’re following. Or – wait, wait, wait! – no thinking at all. Wait, sir, you’re not… you don’t go into all this. You understand? I mean, sorry, not ‘you’ understand. 56:25 Sir, if one really puts away, not through effort, because you see the thing very clearly, that thought breeds both the superficial and the depth; if you see that, if you understand it, if one actually realises that – as you would realise a toothache, actually realise it – then both activities stop. Then the mind is completely empty of such activity; and these two activities, that’s what we are burdened with all the time. That’s our life, our way of looking at life. And when you don’t look at life that way, there is something entirely different, naturally: which is, your mind is completely empty of these two activities. 57:35 And it is not that that emptiness must be maintained; and when you maintain anything, it is maintained by thought because thought derives, from that, pleasure; and therefore it is not empty of these two activities. And so there is neither depth nor the shallow. If one discovers that, you have discovered everything. And so your mind, being empty, can function in this world, go to the office, have a family, from that emptiness. Right, sirs. |
