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OJ66T5 - Meditation is freeing the mind of the known
Ojai, California - 12 November 1966
Public Talk 5



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s fifth public talk in Ojai, California, 1966.
 
0:08 Krishnamurti: I should think one of our greatest problems in life
 
0:17 must be, surely, knowing that our minds
 
0:28 deteriorate, decline, as one grows older,
 
0:35 or deteriorate even when one is quite young,
 
0:45 being a specialist along a certain line and being unaware totally of the whole complex area of life,
 
0:58 it must be a great problem
 
1:07 to find out whether it is at all possible to stop this deterioration
 
1:18 so that the mind is always fresh, young, clear, decisive.
 
1:32 And is it at all possible
 
1:39 to end this decline?
 
1:47 This evening, if I may, I would like to go into that
 
1:58 because to me meditation
 
2:06 is freeing the mind from the known.
 
2:17 And to inquire into this question,
 
2:24 which is really very, very important,
 
2:30 one must, it seems to me,
 
2:36 know or be aware
 
2:42 the whole machinery of the formation of image
 
2:54 which each one of us has about himself or about another,
 
3:01 and not only be aware of that machinery that makes these images
 
3:07 but also how we add to those images that we have about ourselves,
 
3:18 because it is these images that gradually begin to crystallise, become hard.
 
3:33 And the whole of life, which is a constant movement, constant flow,
 
3:43 and this crystallisation, this process of hardening of the image
 
3:55 is the central fact of deterioration.
 
4:02 One notices obviously that the brain cells themselves as one grows older,
 
4:12 burdened with innumerable experiences, hurts, many strains, conflicts, despair,
 
4:26 the competitive process of life,
 
4:31 all these and other factors bring about a lack of sensitivity in the brain cells themselves.
 
4:46 That one sees as one grows older.
 
4:54 And one sees also, when one is quite young,
 
4:59 a mind trained along a special line,
 
5:08 completely concentrated on that line,
 
5:13 and avoiding the whole area of this extraordinary life
 
5:21 makes these brains cells also very narrow, very small,
 
5:29 being unaware of the whole total movement of life.
 
5:35 Which is the modern education, which is the modern of living.
 
5:46 And it is not only with the young
 
5:52 but also as one grows or advances in years
 
5:59 one notices this, the sharpness, the clarity, the precision,
 
6:10 the capacity to think impersonally,
 
6:17 to look at life not always from one centre
 
6:23 – whether that centre is noble or ignoble, that’s irrelevant –
 
6:29 a self-appointed centre,
 
6:34 and from that gradually the crystallisation of the whole brain cells
 
6:42 and the whole mental process declines.
 
6:49 And is one… one is then ready for the grave.
 
6:54 And the question then arises: is it at all possible
 
7:03 to end this decaying process of this brain, as well as of the mind,
 
7:11 the whole total entity? And also whether it’s possible to keep the physique, the body,
 
7:18 extraordinarily alive, alert, energetic, and so on.
 
7:27 So that seems to me a great issue
 
7:34 and therefore a great challenge to find out.
 
7:41 Now, the inquiry into this,
 
7:46 not only verbally but nonverbally,
 
7:55 the inquiry, the examination into this is meditation.
 
8:09 Because that word itself is so misused.
 
8:18 There are so many methods of meditation, especially coming out of Asia:
 
8:28 the Zen form of meditation, the Hindu and the dozens of ways of meditation.
 
8:37 If we understand one, we shall understand the total systems and the ways of meditation.
 
8:47 But the central issue that we are going to talk over together this evening
 
8:57 is this: that whether the mind can ever rejuvenate itself,
 
9:13 whether it can become fresh, young, unafraid.
 
9:34 And if one asserts that it is not possible,
 
9:42 one is actually then blocking oneself. All examination ceases when you say it’s not possible
 
9:50 or when you say it is possible. Either the positive denial of saying that it is not possible
 
10:01 or saying, ‘Well, it is possible’, both, it seems to me, are irrelevant and they block all examination.
 
10:16 But the fact remains that as one grows older
 
10:24 that the mind does decline.
 
10:31 It declines because one sees that the whole process of thinking,
 
10:43 the structure of the brain and the totality of the whole process which is the mind,
 
10:52 is a way of conflict, struggle
 
11:06 and constant strain, a self-contradictory process.
 
11:18 Now, if I may point out here,
 
11:25 I think it would be good to find out how you are listening to what is being said,
 
11:38 because we’re not concerned with ideas.
 
11:44 One can go on with innumerable ideas, adding them, writing about them, reading about them.
 
11:55 There are volumes upon volumes about thought and what its process, and so on and so on.
 
12:02 And there are all these psychologists who have theories about all this or statistical facts, and so on.
 
12:13 Are we listening to a series of words or phrases or ideas,
 
12:25 or are we listening, observing the actual state of our own mind?
 
12:41 And I think that’s very important, especially when we are talking about something which is not… which is beyond argumentation of opinion,
 
12:52 personal inclination or personal outlook.
 
13:03 The fact is that there is deterioration
 
13:13 and if one looks at it and translates that deterioration
 
13:20 or tries to transcend it or go beyond it in terms of personal inclination, temperament, and so on,
 
13:28 it becomes a very shoddy affair.
 
13:37 But if one observes it as you would observe a tree, a sunset,
 
13:46 light on the water, the outlines of a blue hill,
 
13:54 just to observe it, just to observe the process of what is actually taking place in each one of us,
 
14:07 then we will go together.
 
14:14 And if you cannot do this, there will be gaps and you will not...
 
14:21 we’ll not be able to take the road together. And also this requires a sustained attention,
 
14:33 not for two minutes or three minutes, for this whole hour.
 
14:42 And whether one can be so alert, attentive,
 
14:50 not only to what is being said but also to relate what is being said
 
14:58 to your own activity inside of yourself.
 
15:07 Then such listening has an extraordinary action.
 
15:19 But if you merely listen to ideas or words,
 
15:28 then you can have this idea or that idea, accept this opinion or that opinion. We’re not dealing with opinions.
 
15:37 That only leads to dialectical approach. But what we are talking about is something entirely different.
 
15:51 We are concerned with the whole total process of living.
 
15:59 And this total process of living, as one observes,
 
16:04 is always creating an image about ourselves, about others,
 
16:14 image through experience, image through conflict.
 
16:24 This image is added to or taken away, but the central factor of that energy
 
16:32 which creates that image is always constant.
 
16:43 And is it at all possible to go beyond it?
 
16:54 And are we aware that there is an image in each one of us about ourselves,
 
17:03 conscious or unconscious?
 
17:12 I mean, one might think… one might have an image about oneself as superior, as…
 
17:20 or not having capacity or aggressive, pride,
 
17:27 all kinds of nuances, subtleties, which build up this image.
 
17:38 Surely each one has this image about oneself.
 
17:46 And as one grows older…
 
17:51 – it might be that age has nothing really to do with it. One has an image when one is very, very young
 
18:01 and that image begins to get more and more strong and more and more crystallised
 
18:07 and then there is the end of it all. So is one aware of it?
 
18:17 And if one is aware of it,
 
18:24 who is the entity that is aware of the image?
 
18:32 You understand the issue? Is the image different from the image-maker,
 
18:52 or the image-making and the image are the same?
 
19:00 Because unless one understand this factor very clearly what we are going into will not be clear.
 
19:12 You understand? I perceive I have an image about myself: I am this and that,
 
19:18 I am great man or a little man or I am… my name is known/not known, God… – you know? –
 
19:23 all the verbal structure about oneself and the non-verbal structure about oneself,
 
19:32 conscious or hidden. And I realise that image exists,
 
19:45 if at all I become aware, watchful,
 
19:51 I know there is this image is being formed all the time.
 
19:58 And the observer who is aware of that image
 
20:04 feels himself different from the image.
 
20:11 Isn’t that what is taking place? Right? I hope you are… I mean, we are making this clear.
 
20:24 And the observer then begins to either say to himself that,
 
20:32 ‘This image is the factor that brings about a deterioration therefore I must destroy the image
 
20:40 in order to achieve a greater result,
 
20:45 to make the mind young, fresh, and all the rest of it’,
 
20:50 because he realises this image is the central factor of deterioration
 
20:57 and therefore he makes an effort to get rid of that image.
 
21:05 Right? Is that...? Are we going along together?
 
21:11 And he struggles, he explains, he justifies
 
21:17 or adds, strives to alter it to a better image,
 
21:25 moves it to a different dimension or to a different part of that field which he calls life.
 
21:39 So the observer then is concerned with either the destruction of that image
 
21:47 or adding to that image or going beyond that image.
 
21:53 This is what we are doing all the time.
 
22:03 And one has never stopped to inquire whether the observer is not the image-maker
 
22:17 and therefore the observer is the image.
 
22:25 Right? And therefore when there is this factor very clearly understood,
 
22:32 which is not… which is non-verbal but actual,
 
22:38 that the observer is the maker of the image and whatever the observer does
 
22:46 not only destroys the present image he has about himself
 
22:51 but also he creates another image and so keeps this forming of…
 
22:59 making of images all the time going, struggling, compelling, controlling,
 
23:07 suppressing, altering, adjusting.
 
23:17 But when one sees this... the observer is the observed,
 
23:25 then all effort ceases to change the image
 
23:31 or go beyond the image.
 
23:44 This demands a great deal of penetration and attention.
 
23:49 It isn’t just you accept an explanation because the explanation, the word, is not the fact.
 
24:04 And to realise this – if I may take off my coat off –
 
24:14 to realise the central fact, eliminates all effort.
 
24:30 And this is very important to understand. And effort, struggle, in different ways,
 
24:38 either physically or psychologically as competition, as ambition,
 
24:48 aggression, violence, pride, accumulated resentments, and so on,
 
24:56 is one of the factors of deterioration.
 
25:07 So when one realises that the observer is the image-maker
 
25:23 then our whole process of thinking undergoes a tremendous change.
 
25:41 And so the image is the known, isn’t it?
 
25:56 You may not be aware of it, you may not be aware of the content of the image,
 
26:02 the shape of it, the peculiar nuances, subtleties of that image.
 
26:15 And that image, whether one is conscious of it or not,
 
26:21 is in the field of the known. Right?
 
26:34 Perhaps we can discuss, answer the question afterwards; for the moment we’ll go on with what we are talking about.
 
26:45 So as long as the brain… as long as the whole mind,
 
26:51 in which is the mind, the brain and the body, the whole mind functions within the field of the image
 
26:58 which is the known, of which one may be conscious or not,
 
27:05 in that field is the factor of deterioration.
 
27:18 Right? Please, don’t accept it as an idea
 
27:26 which you will think about when you go home. You won’t anyhow. But, I mean, here we are doing it, taking the thing together,
 
27:36 therefore you must do it now not when you go home and say, ‘Well, I’ve taken notes and I’ve understood it; I’ll think about it’.
 
27:44 Don’t take notes because that doesn’t help at all.
 
27:53 So that is the field in which the mind functions,
 
28:01 always within the field of the known.
 
28:08 And the known is the image, whether created by the intellect
 
28:14 or by lots of sentimental, emotional or romantic...
 
28:20 – you know? – all that.
 
28:28 And so the problem then
 
28:36 is whether the mind, which is the result of time, psychological and chronological,
 
28:48 which is the result of thousand experiences,
 
28:54 which is the result of so many stresses and strains, of technological knowledge, of hope, of despair
 
29:03 – you know? – all that we… one… a human being goes through,
 
29:13 the innumerable forms of fear.
 
29:19 All that functions always within that field, in the… which is the field of the known.
 
29:28 The known – I am using that word – which may be there but you have not looked at it,
 
29:34 therefore it is… but still it’s known, it’s the known.
 
29:44 Now, as long as it… its activity, its thoughts, its movement is within the field of the known,
 
29:53 which is the making of the image, there must be deterioration,
 
30:00 do what you will.
 
30:06 So the question arises: is it possible to empty the mind of the known?
 
30:22 You understand? Am I making myself clear? It doesn’t matter.
 
30:39 One must have asked this question, vaguely or with a purpose
 
30:46 because one suffers, one has anxieties, whether it’s possible to go beyond, or one has vague hints of it.
 
30:58 Now we are asking it as a question which must be answered,
 
31:10 as a challenge which must be responded to, and this challenge is not an outward challenge
 
31:18 but a psychological inward challenge.
 
31:25 And we’re going to find out whether it is possible to empty the mind of the known.
 
31:39 I’ve explained what I mean… what we mean by the known.
 
31:48 Now, this process of emptying the mind… – I’m sorry –
 
31:54 this emptying of the mind is meditation.
 
32:04 And we must go into this question of meditation... I mean, explain it a little bit.
 
32:14 All the Asiatic people are conditioned by this word,
 
32:25 so-called religious serious people are conditioned by this word,
 
32:30 because through meditation they hope to find something which is not…
 
32:36 which is something beyond mere daily existence.
 
32:42 And to find it, they have various systems, very, very subtle or very crude like the Zen:
 
32:52 the discipline, the forcing, the beating,
 
32:58 or watching... tremendously being aware of the toe and then to see how it moves, or to be conscious of it all,
 
33:06 and so on and on and on in different ways. And also in that so-called meditative systems is concentration,
 
33:19 fixing the mind on one idea or one thought or one symbol, and so on,
 
33:25 which every schoolboy does when he reads a book, when he’s forced to read.
 
33:33 And there’s not much difference between the student in the school and the very deep thinker
 
33:38 who tries tremendously to concentrate on one idea or one image and to try to discover some reality out of that.
 
33:48 And also there are various forms of stimulation,
 
33:59 forcing oneself, stimulating oneself to reach a point
 
34:05 from which you see life totally differently,
 
34:17 and that is to expand consciousness
 
34:25 more and more through will, through effort, through concentration,
 
34:32 through determination to force, force, force, and by extending this consciousness
 
34:40 one hopes to arrive at a different state or a different dimension
 
34:46 or reach a point which the conscious mind cannot.
 
34:53 Or one takes many, many drugs,
 
34:59 including the latest, LSD, and so on and so on,
 
35:04 that gives for the moment tremendous stimulation to the whole system
 
35:13 and in that state one experiences extraordinary things.
 
35:24 Extraordinary things through stimulation,
 
35:29 through concentration, through discipline, through starvation, fasting.
 
35:37 If one fasts for some days, one has peculiar… obviously peculiar things happening.
 
35:47 And one takes drugs and that for the moment gives you…
 
35:53 makes the body extraordinarily sensitive, and you see colours with… which are most extraordinary, which you have never seen before.
 
36:01 You see everything so clearly there is no space between you and that thing which you see.
 
36:12 And this goes on in various forms throughout the world:
 
36:18 the repetition of words, like in the Catholic or in those prayers,
 
36:27 which all make the mind a little calm and quiet, obviously which is a trick.
 
36:32 If you keep on repeating, repeating, repeating, you get so dull, obviously you go to sleep
 
36:39 and you think that’s a very quiet mind. Please.
 
36:45 So,
 
36:50 and there are very many systems
 
36:56 both in Asia, which include India, and in Europe,
 
37:02 to quieten the mind. One goes through extraordinary tortures to still the mind,
 
37:13 but that mind can be stilled very simply by taking a tranquiliser,
 
37:19 a pill that will put you to... semi-awake but quiet,
 
37:24 but that’s not meditation. So one can brush all that aside even though one is committed to it,
 
37:35 we can throw all that out of the window.
 
37:42 And as you are listening, I hope you’ll throw it out
 
37:47 because we are going into something much deeper than these inventions,
 
37:58 whether it is the inventions of a very clever mind which has had a peculiar experience,
 
38:07 the other experience, and so on and so on.
 
38:13 We can really, having examined, not in too much detail but sufficiently,
 
38:20 one can put all that aside. Because the more one practices a discipline
 
38:28 the more the mind becomes dull, mechanised.
 
38:37 And that mechanising, routing process makes the mind somewhat quiet,
 
38:42 but it is not the quietness of tremendous energy, understanding.
 
38:51 So having brushed those aside as immature, utterly nonsensical,
 
39:03 though they produce extraordinary results,
 
39:10 then we can proceed to inquire
 
39:16 whether it’s at all possible to free the mind from the known,
 
39:25 not only the known of thousand years but also of yesterday,
 
39:32 the memory... which is memory.
 
39:39 Which doesn’t mean that I forget the way to my…
 
39:44 to the house that we live in or technology. That obviously one must have.
 
39:50 That’s essential, otherwise we can’t live. But we are talking at a… of things… something... at a deeper level,
 
40:03 the deeper level where the image is always active.
 
40:10 The image, which is the known, is functioning all the time,
 
40:17 and whether that image and the maker of the image which is the observer,
 
40:24 whether it’s possible to empty the mind of that.
 
40:31 And emptying of that of the known is meditation.
 
40:37 And we are going to go into that a little bit because this… I don’t if you have the energy or the attention, sustained attention,
 
40:44 to go... so far.
 
40:52 One sees very clearly that there is an understanding
 
40:59 and therefore an action only when the mind is completely quiet.
 
41:08 Right? That is, I say I understand something
 
41:15 or I see something very clearly when the mind is totally silent.
 
41:23 Right? Isn’t it?
 
41:31 You tell me something,
 
41:37 and you’re telling me something which I don’t like or like. If I like, I pay a little attention;
 
41:44 if I don’t like, I don’t pay any attention at all.
 
41:49 Or I listen to what you’re saying and translate it according to my idiosyncrasy, to my inclination,
 
41:58 and so on and so on and so on, justifying, and so on and so on.
 
42:04 I don’t listen at all, or I oppose what you’re saying
 
42:12 because I have an image about myself and that image reacts.
 
42:17 Please, I hope you are doing all this.
 
42:24 And so I don’t listen, I don’t hear, I object, I defend, I’m aggressive,
 
42:34 but all that obviously prevents me from understanding.
 
42:41 You understand? I want to understand you. I can only understand you when I have no image about you.
 
42:51 And if you’re a total stranger, I don’t care; I don’t even want to understand you because you’re totally outside the field of my image
 
43:02 and I’ve no relationship with you. But if we are a friend, a relation, and so on,
 
43:08 a husband, wife, and all the rest of it, I have an image.
 
43:13 And the image I have and you have about me and I have about you, in… those images have relationship,
 
43:24 and all our relationship is based on that.
 
43:38 And I see… one sees very clearly that only when the image doesn’t interfere
 
43:46 – image as knowledge, emotion, all the rest of it – interfere that I can look, I can hear, I can understand.
 
43:56 It has happened to all of us when suddenly you discuss, argue, point out, and so on,
 
44:04 suddenly your mind becomes quiet and you see that; you say, ‘By Jove, I’ve understood’.
 
44:11 That understanding is an action, not an idea.
 
44:18 Right?
 
44:28 So there is understanding action,
 
44:33 only action in a different sense than the action that we know
 
44:39 which is the action of the image of the known. We are talking of an understanding which is an action
 
44:46 when the mind is completely quiet in which understanding as action takes place.
 
44:55 Right? So there is understanding and action only
 
45:04 when the mind is completely quiet,
 
45:09 and that quiet, still mind is not induced by any discipline, by any effort.
 
45:17 Obviously if there is an effort, it is the effort of the image to go beyond itself
 
45:23 and create another image – you know? – all the tricks of that.
 
45:30 So one sees that there is an understanding action only when the mind is quiet,
 
45:37 and that quietness is not induced, is not projected, is not brought about by careful, cunning thought.
 
45:56 And meditation then is, which one can do when you’re sitting in the bus,
 
46:01 walking the street or washing dishes and God knows what else.
 
46:08 And meditation has nothing whatsoever to do with breathing and all that – you know? – we have brushed all that aside long ago,
 
46:17 or taking postures – you know? – all that childish stuff.
 
46:26 Then one asks:
 
46:33 when the observer is the image and therefore there is no effort to change the image
 
46:44 or to accept the image but only the fact of ‘what is’,
 
46:51 and the observation of that fact of ‘what is’
 
46:59 brings about a radical change in the fact itself.
 
47:12 And that can only take place when the observer is the observed.
 
47:21 There is nothing mysterious about it. The mystery of life is beyond all this,
 
47:30 beyond the image, beyond effort, beyond the centralised, egotistic, subjective, self-centred activity.
 
47:41 There is a vast field of something which can never be found through the known.
 
47:55 And the emptying of the mind can only take place non-verbally
 
48:06 only when there is no observer as the observed.
 
48:14 All this demands tremendous attention, awareness,
 
48:22 an awareness which is not concentration.
 
48:30 You know, concentration is a focussing upon a particular page, an idea,
 
48:38 image, a symbol, and so on and so on – which is, concentration is a process of exclusion.
 
48:49 You know... tell a student, ‘Don’t look out of the window; pay attention to the book’, and so he wants to look out
 
48:55 but he forces himself to look, look at the page. So there is a conflict.
 
49:04 And this constant effort to concentrate is a process of exclusion
 
49:10 which has nothing to do with awareness.
 
49:16 Awareness takes place, which is very simple when one... you... everybody can do, which is to observe,
 
49:23 observe not only what is the outer – this tree, what people say,
 
49:29 what one thinks, and so on, outwardly, but also inwardly to be aware without choice,
 
49:39 just to observe without choosing. For when you choose… when… choice takes place only
 
49:46 when there is confusion, not when there is clarity.
 
49:54 So awareness is… takes place only when there is no choice,
 
50:03 or when you’re aware of all the conflicting choices, conflicting desires, the strains,
 
50:11 just to observe all this movement of contradiction –
 
50:19 and knowing that the observer is the observed,
 
50:24 and therefore in that process there is no choice at all but only watching ‘what is’.
 
50:34 And that’s entirely different from concentration.
 
50:40 And that awareness brings a quality of attention
 
50:50 in which there is neither the observer nor the observed. When you really attend, if you have...
 
50:57 – we all do sometimes – completely attend, like when you’re now,
 
51:04 if you are really listening, there is neither the listener nor the speaker,
 
51:15 and in... that state of attention is silence.
 
51:23 And that state of attention brings about an extraordinary freshness,
 
51:28 young, youth… – not youth; in America they use that word terribly –
 
51:35 extraordinary sense of freshness, quality of newness to the mind.
 
51:48 And this emptying of the mind with all the experiences it has had
 
51:54 is the… is meditation. And experience, though one has had a thousand experiences,
 
52:02 and we are the result of millions of experiences,
 
52:10 and that can be emptied only, all the experiences, when each experience, one becomes aware of it,
 
52:18 sees the whole content of it without choice and therefore it goes... it passes by,
 
52:25 therefore there is no mark of that experience as a wound, as something to remember, to recognise and keep.
 
52:37 So meditation is a very strenuous process. It’s not just a thing to do
 
52:45 for old ladies or men who have nothing to do.
 
52:51 This demands tremendous attention right through.
 
53:00 Then you will find for yourself… – no, there is no question of experience; there is no finding –
 
53:06 then when the mind is completely quiet
 
53:11 without any form of suggestion as hypnotism or following a method,
 
53:20 when the mind is completely quiet then there is a quality and a different dimension
 
53:26 of which thought can never possibly imagine or experience.
 
53:33 Then it’s beyond all search; there is no… then no seeking.
 
53:43 A mind that is full of light does not seek.
 
53:49 It’s only the dull, confused mind that’s always seeking and hoping to find.
 
53:55 What it finds is the result of its own confusion.
 
54:19 Is it worthwhile talking about all this, questioning, asking?
 
54:26 Yes? All right; go ahead.
 
54:41 Q: Sir, I want... when we are in this state as we are now,
 
54:48 full of images, and so on, how you explained,
 
54:54 if this soundness of the mind is only derived the result of constant...
 
55:01 images or of wrong living habits,
 
55:09 from eating, for instance, and... and so on.

K: I don’t quite follow your question, sir.
 
55:15 Make it brief, sir, because I have to repeat the question.

Q: I mean, if we get... mind only,
 
55:23 a deteriorate mind through produce images on the one hand,
 
55:31 also on wrong living habits...

K: Of course, sir, I included all that.
 
55:39 The questioner asks: is not the deterioration…
 
55:47 has not deterioration two factors, not only the image-making factor but also the wrong way of living, wrong food, and so on? Obviously.
 
56:01 I mean, it’s clear, isn’t it? I mean, to live...
 
56:06 Sir, all this demands such extraordinary sensitivity,
 
56:11 both of the body and of the mind. They are not that the two are separate.
 
56:17 And there is a separateness which one cannot possibly understand unless one goes into this question of observer and observed.
 
56:28 So, obviously, how one lives, what one thinks, what are one’s daily activities, angers – you know? – all rest of it.
 
56:43 Q: Krishnaji, the images, the known, as you say, or the... is it fitting to examine together here now the non-image
 
56:53 or the unknown or the unconscious?

K: What, sir? I haven’t understood the question.

Q: Would it be fitting to examine
 
56:59 together here now the non-image area, the unknown, or the unconscious?
 
57:05 K: Can we examine, the questioner asks,
 
57:11 the non-… the state which is non-...
 
57:17 which is not brought about through the image or examine the unconscious?
 
57:26 As we said the other day,
 
57:32 actually there is no state as the unconscious.
 
57:38 Sorry.
 
57:48 I mean, one has dreams. One never asks oneself why does one have dreams at all?
 
58:00 One has dreams if one has overeaten and all... that’s all right, that’s clear. But all those dreams which need interpretation
 
58:08 and, you know, all the fuss they make about dreams.
 
58:15 Why do you dream at all? Is it possible not to dream and…
 
58:23 so that when you wake up the mind is fresh, clear, innocent?
 
58:33 One dreams because during the day you have not paid attention;
 
58:45 you’ve not watched what you have said, what you have thought, what you have felt, how you have talked to another;
 
58:51 you have not watched the sky, the tree, the beauty of, you know, so much. You haven’t watched,
 
58:59 and so all the… this field which has not been examined, watched, looked,
 
59:08 naturally projects in that state of the mind when it is half-asleep
 
59:16 an image or an idea or a scene and that becomes the dream which has to be interpreted,
 
59:23 and so on and so on and so on. So if one is… when one is aware, watching, looking,
 
59:34 not interpreting, choicelessly, all things, you will find for yourself you don’t dream at all
 
59:44 because you have understood everything as you’re going along. I’ve not finished, madame.
 
59:56 Look, please, if you understand one question, you have understood all the questions.
 
1:00:08 This question which we are talking... asked, which has been asked,
 
1:00:13 is whether the conscious mind can examine the unconscious,
 
1:00:20 can look into something which is hidden,
 
1:00:28 whether it can analyse. And it can, obviously.
 
1:00:33 It can see the motives, the reactions of… in relationship, and so on. It can obviously analyse.
 
1:00:45 And this process of analysing what is part of the whole field
 
1:00:55 and that part is in another corner of that field, which is called the unconscious,
 
1:01:01 and which we make so much ado about,
 
1:01:08 that can be examined very quietly without analysis by just watching the whole field.
 
1:01:19 And the whole field is the conscious and therefore the whole field is limited.
 
1:01:32 The whole area is limited because there is always the centre, the observer,
 
1:01:40 the censor, the watcher, the thinker.
 
1:01:45 And you can only observe the whole field, what is called the unconscious and the conscious,
 
1:01:52 which are on that field, only when there is no observer at all,
 
1:02:07 when there is no attempt to change ‘what is’
 
1:02:14 but be totally attentive, completely attentive of the whole field.
 
1:02:22 Then you’ll find out for yourself there is no such thing as the unconscious
 
1:02:31 and there is nothing to be examined.
 
1:02:36 It’s there to look, only we don’t know how to look
 
1:02:41 and we don’t want to look.
 
1:02:47 And when we do look, we want to change it to our pleasure, to our idiosyncrasies, to our inclination,
 
1:02:54 which becomes terribly personal. And that’s what interests most of us: very… to be personal.
 
1:03:06 Q: Sir, when one is in the state of a quiet mind and makes some discoveries,
 
1:03:11 are these discoveries to be treated any differently from...?

K: Obviously not, sir.
 
1:03:16 When the quiet mind discovers something, is that… are those to be examined or to be treated
 
1:03:24 like any other experience, like any other thing. A quiet mind, a still mind, never experiences.
 
1:03:38 It’s only the observer that experiences, therefore the… it is not a still mind.
 
1:03:53 Yes, sir?

Q: To see the false as false and to differentiate that between what is observed,
 
1:04:01 you realise that this is not true... very difficult concept...
 
1:04:08 K: Yes, sir. As long as you have concepts you never see what is true.
 
1:04:18 Yes, madame?

Q: My main trouble is that I can’t stay aware
 
1:04:23 for a long enough period of time, maybe a few seconds, a few minutes and I fall asleep,
 
1:04:29 and this has been going on for years. Now, I’m wondering…
 
1:04:34 K: The questioner says: I can’t be aware for a long period.
 
1:04:39 I’m aware one or two seconds and then the rest of the time I’m asleep and I struggle.
 
1:04:47 You see, to be attentive at the moment of…
 
1:04:58 attentive at that moment when you are aware is enough,
 
1:05:06 but when you say, ‘I must extend it, keep it going’, then the trouble begins.
 
1:05:15 Then you want it as a pleasure.
 
1:05:23 Q: Sir, if there is no unconscious…

K: Wait, sir…
 
1:05:36 You see, behind this question lies the desire
 
1:05:46 to have something permanently,
 
1:05:53 a permanent awareness, a permanent state of attention.
 
1:06:02 What has… what is important is to be aware,
 
1:06:09 to be attentive completely at that moment – it may last one second –
 
1:06:16 completely aware, and next second you may be inattentive,
 
1:06:23 but know also you are inattentive. Don’t say inattention must become attention
 
1:06:37 and thereby you introduce conflict, and therefore in that conflict
 
1:06:45 awareness, attention completely ends. Yes, sir?
 
1:06:51 Q: Sir, if there is no such thing as the unconscious mind and unconscious thinking,
 
1:06:58 how do you explain such phenomena as post-hypnotic suggestions?
 
1:07:04 K:...Post-hypnotic... I know all… Yes, sir, that’s clear.
 
1:07:09 Look, sir, I mean, one can’t... Please, this requires…
 
1:07:16 When I said there is no such thing as the unconscious I have been saying don’t accept what is said.
 
1:07:23 Let’s look into it, neither accepting nor denying.
 
1:07:30 Your question, sir, what happens after hypnosis, and so on, through hypnosis,
 
1:07:37 is very explainable, all still within the field of the known, conscious.
 
1:07:48 Sir, what is important in all this, in asking questions and the answers or the explanations,
 
1:07:57 is that the explanation has no value at all.
 
1:08:08 What has value is how you ask the question
 
1:08:17 and what you’re expecting out of that question.
 
1:08:23 If you are attentive of what you are asking, you will see that question is answered without any difficulty,
 
1:08:32 therefore there is no teacher, no… You are everything yourself,
 
1:08:38 both the teacher, the pupil, the… – you know? – everything.
 
1:08:43 That gives you tremendous freedom to inquire.
 
1:08:48 Right, sirs.