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OJ72T1 - What will bring humanity together?
Ojai, California - 8 April 1972
Public Talk 1



1:55 Krishnamurti: I don’t know if you have noticed that in a little town like this, or a city or village – I don’t know what you call it – that there are so many little churches, so many different myths, so many different fanciful, religious conceptions, formulas, that divide the people.
2:28 And it is the same all over the world. Go to any little village, or town, or city in Europe, it is the same.
2:43 Christianity, divided in itself, exotic religions, myths that have gone on for many centuries, that are dying now, and new myths are being formed.
3:06 And go to India or Asia, it is the same: all broken up, divided, each individual seeking a particular fancy, myth, a religious concept or a belief or a dogma, according to his own particular temperament, neuroticism, or fanciful, hopeful belief.
3:51 And when one considers all this, wisely, watchfully, watching all this, one wonders what will bring humanity together.
4:11 Not, obviously, belief. Not, obviously, a particular formula over which we can quarrel, differ, argue dialectically or accept some leader, some guru, some exotic, mythological exportation.
4:51 And when one can see that the world – that is, the human beings – are divided religiously, nationally, politically, economically, and in every way possible, each one almost against another.
5:20 There are revolts: black against the white, and the purple against the blue, and so on.
5:30 And when you wonder, looking at all this extraordinary phenomena that's going on in the world, one wonders what will bring man together, what will bring about right relationship between human beings so that we all can live peacefully.
6:02 Because it is our earth, not the Christian earth, or the earth of the oil people, or the earth of the businessman, or the earth of the Catholic, Protestant, Wesleyan and God knows what else.
6:26 And when you look at this: the long hair, the short hair, the hippie and the non-hippie, the businessman, the artist, the priest, the various meditative groups, each asserting their own particular form of meditation path or that their belief or dogma will lead to a particular experience and realisation and so on...
7:21 Looking at it, any serious man – I mean by that word a man who is completely committed to the resolution of the problem that divides human beings, and hoping to bring the people together, not belonging to any particular group, committed to any particular action – to such a serious man, what is the answer?
8:04 You know, if I may point out, this is not an entertainment.
8:14 This morning, sitting together here, we are not entertaining each other, we are not being amused or intellectually stimulated.
8:36 We are, I hope, serious people concerned with a devastating world, with the horrors that are going on in the world: the pollution, the overpopulation, the economic expansion that is going to destroy the world.
9:06 And if you are at all serious – and I deeply hope that you are – not wanting to be entertained, but wanting to find out what is the right action, what to do as a human being living in this terrible world, in this world of tremendous sorrow, destruction, violence, then perhaps, you and I can take a journey into this enormous, complex problem of human existence and its relationship to another.
10:09 Now, when you look at all this, not from any particular point of view, as an American, as a Catholic, or a Protestant, as a socialist, or a socialite, or belonging to any particular group, as a human being, concerned, not trying to solve it according to a particular concept, formula, but observing this, one sees that thought is responsible for this.
10:57 Thought, which has done extraordinary things in this world – technologically, scientifically, economically – thought has produced extraordinary results, the building of a marvellous bridge across a wide river, going to the moon.
11:34 And also, thought has done terrible things, all the destructive instruments of war, the dividing of the people.
11:56 So on one hand, you see that thought, the whole machinery of thinking, has produced the extraordinary world of technology, comfort, so-called civilisation, and also, it has brought about terrible results, this division amongst people, nationally, economically, religiously, and so on.
12:46 Thought is responsible for the division of man.
12:59 And there are many who say thought must be killed.
13:11 There are many who say, 'Act spontaneously without thought'.
13:25 There are many who say, 'As thought is always conditioned, let us condition that thought better' as the communists, as the latest psychologists, and others.
13:52 That is, thought in its action is responsible for behaviour, whether that behaviour be violent, pleasant, beautiful or ugly.
14:20 Thought is responsible for human behaviour.
14:31 And there are many who are maintaining, who are asserting, controlling, shaping the human mind according to their particular conditioning – the communists, the Mao, and so on – and thereby hope to bring about a right, cooperative action so that the terrible things that we do to each other can come to an end.
15:23 I hope we are all following this. As I said, we are taking a journey together.
15:40 And we are sharing together what we see on the journey.
15:50 And to share together, we must both be intensively aware, not only what is going on in the world outwardly, but also what is going on inwardly.
16:15 Sharing implies that we meet at the same time, at the same level, with the same intensity, otherwise there is no sharing.
16:37 And we are neither disagreeing or agreeing.
16:44 We are neither accepting this formula or that formula, or this opinion or that opinion.
16:52 Together, we are examining, investigating, exploring the outward phenomena, as well as the inward process of our own existence – they are both important.
17:25 And this movement of the inner as well as the outer is what we are going to examine together, share together, and see, if we can, during these two talks – which I doubt very much, but it doesn’t matter – whether we can understand, and therefore resolve, this division that exists between human beings, which is the very cause of all conflict, both outwardly and inwardly.
18:06 Inwardly, we are fragmented, broken up. Outwardly also. And in exploring and examining what is going on, we must, it seems to me, not only be aware, but also be able to see clearly.
18:43 So we have to understand together, what we mean by observing, seeing the world, outwardly, with all the horrors, with all the beautiful things, the wars, the pollution – outwardly.
19:06 And inwardly, the conflict, the struggle, the constant battle – to see it clearly.
19:23 And what does it mean to see clearly, to observe?
19:36 I think it is very important to understand that thing, what it means to observe.
19:49 One observes, doesn’t one, through one’s own image that one has built up, either hereditary or personally, according to one’s own particular temperament, idiosyncrasy and so on?
20:16 That is, when you look at a tree – and there are so many lovely trees here – when you look at those trees, you look through the image you have of that tree.
20:35 You please try it, look at it. You will see that what you observe, you observe the tree through the botanical knowledge you have acquired.
20:51 You look at that tree, naming it, liking it or disliking it, so you are looking through an image, and not looking at the tree directly.
21:20 To observe an outward thing like a tree or the mountain or the bird, or the flight of an eagle, is comparatively easy.
21:34 But to observe, to see what's going on inwardly, it becomes much more difficult.
21:47 Please, as we are talking, do it, not merely listen to a series of words or ideas, and then walk away from it.
22:02 But if you actually are experimenting with what is being said now, then you will see how, when you look at yourself as you are, you have not only the images that have been handed to you through tradition, through the past, but also you are looking at yourself through various images that you have created about yourself.
22:40 So you never observe actually ‘what is’.
22:47 You're always observing with the eyes of ‘what should be’ or observing through a formula, through a belief, through an ideology, or through various forms of conditioning.
23:10 So it becomes extremely difficult to observe oneself actually – to observe actually ‘what is’.
23:33 And, as we are going to investigate together this phenomenon of human conflict in division, it becomes extraordinarily important, if you are at all serious, to find out for oneself the act of observation.
24:02 Because if you observe with your traditional outlook, with your conditioned responses, as a Catholic, as a Protestant, as a God knows what else – the innumerable divisions that each one of us has created – then you are actually not seeing at all, you are seeing the image which you want to see through the image which you have created.
24:40 And such a mind that is trying to observe is incapable of bringing about a radical revolution in itself.
25:00 Because psychological revolution is necessary, far more important than the physical revolution, than the economic revolution, or social revolution.
25:23 Psychological revolution – a total transformation of the mind and the heart – is necessary because that is the root cause of any outward phenomena and change.
25:48 If there is no deep, radical change in oneself as a human being, whatever you do outwardly will be conditioned by your inward state.
26:07 If you are inwardly confused, dead, conditioned, narrow, shoddy little human being, whatever you do outwardly will produce a shoddy society, a corrupt society.
26:26 And we give tremendous importance to outward changes – we want outward changes.
26:38 There must be a total change outwardly, socially, that is fairly obvious: the end of war, the end of poverty, the outward division of human beings into nationalities, into sovereign governments, and so on.
27:13 Outwardly, there must be a deep, radical change.
27:23 Because as the scientists are also saying, if we are going on as we are, expanding economically, polluting the earth, the seas and the air, overpopulation, and so on, in about seventy years we will destroy the earth and ourselves.
28:00 So there must be, if you are at all serious and have gone into this very, very deeply, trying to solve this problem, not according to Lenin, Trotsky or Stalin or Mao, or some latest psychologist, but if you are, as a human being, going into this problem deeply, to find out how to resolve this, then you will find, as you see, that there must be in each human being a radical, psychological revolution.
28:45 The two, the outward and inward movement, must go together.
28:52 And the inward movement is far more important than the outer. I think that’s fairly clear. And to bring about this deep, inward revolution at the very depth of one’s consciousness, one must have the eyes to look – to look at ourselves very clearly.
29:39 And you cannot possibly look if you are looking through the eyes of a particular psychologist or a particular formula, if you are a communist, socialist – oh Lord, and all the rest of it – you cannot possibly look.
30:05 I think again, that is fairly clear and simple. It is only the man who is not committed who is free to look, who is not held by a particular opinion, or a particular knowledge, or a particular experience.
30:30 It is only such a person who can observe actually ‘what is’.
30:38 And when you observe, thought becomes the central factor.
30:55 Thought, which is the response of knowledge, experience, memory, and that thought, scientifically, and so on, has created an extraordinary world, and thought also has created the various gods and saviours and myths.
31:39 You are a Christian because you have been conditioned that way, which is the result of thought being conditioned in a particular culture, according to particular religious dogmas, beliefs, rituals, as in India, as in Asia, they do exactly the same thing.
32:10 Only there it is called Hinduism, Buddhism or Islam, here it is called Christianity.
32:19 But it is the same phenomenon which divides people.
32:30 And where there is division, not only outwardly, but also inwardly, there must be conflict.
32:39 Right? Is that clear? Do we go on together from there? Because you know, sirs, in a beautiful valley like this – and it is one of the most beautiful valleys in the world – to live here, and to see this beauty, and to know this beauty will be destroyed by human beings because they want to expand, they want more money, more pleasure, more everything.
33:41 And the earth is being destroyed by our stupidity, by our greed, by our desire for greater pleasure.
34:02 And thought, if it is not very clearly understood, is going to bring about our disaster.
34:18 So, we see what thought is, and how important thought is.
34:28 One cannot possibly exist without thinking. You cannot function normally, easily, without thought.
34:48 To go to your house, to your home, to take the bus, the train, the aeroplane, you must have the capacity to think.
34:57 So knowledge at one level becomes essentially important, but that very knowledge can be used to create division amongst people.
35:21 Thought functions naturally, effectively, completely, when the ‘me’, which is another function of thought, intervenes in the practical knowledge.
35:55 Is this all Greek to you? We are going together? Look sir, we need knowledge of the world, of the seas, of the air, scientific and so on – we need that.
36:19 But also, thought has created the idea of the ‘me’, the ‘me’ who is different from you.
36:38 Thought has divided the world as ‘you’ and ‘me’, ‘we’ and ‘they’.
36:51 And when the ‘me’ operates, functions, in the field of knowledge, then it creates mischief. Right?
37:09 That is, how is the mind to function efficiently and truly in the field of knowledge, and keep the ‘me’, the ego, the person, the individual, the little entity that's making all the trouble in the world, to keep that entity completely out of operation in the field of knowledge?
37:52 You've got what I am talking about? Am I making myself clear? You are going, at the end of the talk, I hope, you are going to ask questions, so I’ll go on.
38:09 I do not know, if you have not noticed, how terribly selfish we are, how terribly egocentric our activities are.
38:34 And unless there is a radical change in this activity, you cannot possibly create a new world.
38:48 And therefore, the ideologists have said, as that ‘me’ cannot possibly be changed, let thought, which creates the ‘me’, identify itself with the greater, which is God, which is the State, which is the nationality, which is a particular ideology, so that the ‘me’ doesn’t interfere with action.
39:32 So ideologies have become extraordinarily important in order to prevent the particular ‘me’ from acting.
39:47 You’ve understood? The ‘me’ that creates mischief in the world, that is perpetually seeking pleasure, the ‘me’ that's frightened, guilty, frustrated, anxious...
40:12 And no religion, no society, has solved that problem.
40:22 They have transferred the ‘me’ into heaven, sitting next to God, or being saved, and so on, but the ‘me’ still continues.
40:36 So they have not solved it, religions, culture or any particular social activity.
40:49 They are trying to solve it communistically. They say, 'State is important, not you'. 'Serve the State, serve the people.' And if you don’t, you are either sent to Siberia, sent to mental hospitals, or liquidated.
41:15 When the pressure of threat is removed, the ‘me’ will come into operation again.
41:29 So, when you see all this, see clearly, not with blurred eyes, not hoping to solve it, because then if you can’t solve it, you fall into despair, you get depressed.
41:50 But when you see it actually as it is – and I hope we are doing it now – then we are going to find out, ask ourselves the question: how can thought function most efficiently, objectively, all the time without the ‘me’?
42:31 Can the ‘me’ be totally resolved?
42:40 Can the ‘me’ – the ego, the person, the individual who wants to express himself and therefore, unfulfilled, miserable, unhappy, egotistic – can that ‘me’ come to an end?
43:06 Knowing that human beings throughout the ages have tried in different ways to resolve this question through worship of God, through the identification with a particular ideology, the ‘me’ to be put aside through the family, through a community, through a commune, through a State – we have tried every way.
43:43 Suppress it, control it, discipline it, destroy it.
43:51 Every way we have tried and we have not been able to do it.
44:01 And in this country, the ‘me’ has become extraordinarily important.
44:11 Because if you have observed, in this affluent society, everyone is seeking greater pleasure, more and more pleasure, which is the pursuit of ‘me’.
44:29 And when that pleasure is thwarted, there is violence, anger, frustration.
44:38 And this sense of search for pleasure is spreading right through the world.
44:46 So as we were saying, human beings have tried in every way to dissolve this ‘me’, and they have not succeeded.
44:59 Perhaps, there is another way to come upon this. And we are going to investigate a different approach to this problem.
45:12 You understand? That is, where there is conflict, there is division – inwardly, outwardly.
45:29 Where there is harmony, there is no conflict.
45:38 Now, what brings about division, inwardly as well as outwardly?
45:49 Because if this division can be resolved, conflict comes to an end, surely.
45:57 Division as contradiction, self-contradiction, division that is comparative, comparing oneself with another, and therefore, in that comparison, there is conflict.
46:17 You are following all this? Where there is a measurement, which is comparison between me and another, there is division.
46:27 And where there is division, there is conflict.
46:35 That is, when I compare myself with you, you being more intelligent, more bright, more this and that, then there is division in me, and that division becomes aggressive, feels inferior, becomes angry, competitive, in order to be like you, so this division, inwardly, brings about conflict.
47:14 Now, do you see this? Or do you see it as a verbal description?
47:30 You understand my question? Am I making myself clear? Do you see it actually for yourself, without the verbal image which the speaker has created for you, and through that image you see it, or do you see it directly, non-verbally?
48:00 If you see it directly, non-verbally, then your action is instantaneous.
48:20 Look sir, if you see a danger, you act instantly, don’t you?
48:31 If you see a rattler, there is action. That action has been brought about through the conditioning that all rattlers are poisonous, are dangerous.
48:46 So your conditioned response is to act instantly in front of danger. Right?
49:00 And your conditioned response is that the ego, the ‘me’, must fulfil, must act, must divide.
49:11 That's your conditioned response. The ‘me’ is very important to you, and your whole culture is based on that.
49:27 So, you don’t see the danger of your conditioning.
49:37 You see the danger of a snake because of your condition, because thousands of generations have said, ‘Be careful of snakes, they are dangerous.’ And thousands of generations have said the ‘me’ is very important.
50:10 But you don’t see the danger of this conditioning as the ‘me’ that’s important. You get it?
50:24 In one direction, the conditioning warns you against danger, and another conditioning says, 'Continue though it is dangerous'.
50:42 Is this clear and simple? Now, do you see it? Or do you see it merely as an intellectual theory, as an idea to be accepted, or do you translate what you see according to your fancy, agreeing or disagreeing, or do you see it actually, as a tremendous danger?
51:22 If you see it as a danger, life becomes extraordinarily simple.
51:33 Because all our conditioning is based on this, that the mind must be conditioned in order to function in human behaviour properly.
52:07 And for generations, mind has been conditioned in the idea that the ‘me’ is all-important.
52:25 And the mind, being so conditioned, does not see how dangerous it is.
52:34 You’ve got this?
52:42 Because, as we said, where there is division, there must be conflict.
52:53 You may tolerate this conflict, you may say, ‘Well, that is human nature to be in conflict.’ And through conflict, through tension, you will produce various forms of literature, And through this tension, this contradiction, what you produce is called creative.
53:34 And is it creative? Or is it the result of a destructive mind?
53:52 So it becomes all-important to find out for yourself, if you are at all serious, how you observe, whether you observe the ‘me’ as an outsider looking in, observing the ‘me’ as from a superior self – you are following all this? – and therefore accepting division, or do you see this whole phenomenon as a whole movement, non-verbally?
54:57 Therefore, when you see it non-verbally, non-ideologically, then you are in direct contact with that which is dangerous, therefore you act immediately, not in a future date.
55:20 And that's one of our conditionings: we accept a gradual process of action.
55:33 That is, we say to ourselves, ‘I will change later, gradually.
55:41 It’s impossible to change instantly.’ The churches, the religions, the psychologists, the analysts accept this: you can’t change instantly, you must have time.
56:00 You must have time to go to heaven, but in the meantime sow the seeds of mischief.
56:13 So you accept that as part of your culture, which induces laziness, wastage of energy, and destructive activity all the time.
56:36 So the question becomes extraordinarily important to ask, whether you can bring about a change instantly in yourself, psychologically.
56:53 And as you see, it can be done instantly: when you see danger, the danger of this division between man and man, created by thought, which is the ‘me’.
57:16 So one asks, can one live in this world without the ‘me’?
57:24 You understand my question?
57:31 The ‘me’ that is ambitious, the ‘me’ that's competitive, the ‘me’ that's pursuing everlastingly pleasure, through power, status, money, sex.
57:53 We are not saying that you mustn’t seek pleasure.
58:00 To observe the phenomenon of pleasure, what is involved in it.
58:11 You know, there is a great difference between pleasure, enjoyment and joy.
58:27 When you see a beautiful thing, there is complete enjoyment of that beauty.
58:37 When you see the mountains in the evening light, there is great delight, there is great, full enjoyment of the beauty of that light on that hill.
58:51 But when that enjoyment is pursued by thought, wanting it to be repeated tomorrow, then it becomes pleasure – as you do sexually.
59:20 And pleasure has nothing whatsoever to do with joy. It comes naturally, unexpectedly, fully.
59:36 But when it comes, and gone, thought picks it up and says, ‘I must pursue that, I must have joy’ and therefore it becomes pleasure.
59:54 So when you see all this clearly, without any choice, for choice exists only when there is confusion, when you see clearly that the beauty of this valley must be kept as beautiful, there is no choice.
1:00:23 You do everything to keep it, elect the right person and so on.
1:00:32 It is only when you are confused, not clear, then you choose, and out of that choice you create conflict.
1:00:49 So it is of great importance to see clearly, without any distortion. And there is distortion when there is the ‘me’ which divides. Right.
1:01:08 Now, would you care to ask questions?
1:01:15 Questioner: Sir, I have a question.
1:01:17 K: Just a minute, sir. Take a breath. You know, to ask a question not only of the speaker, but to ask a question of yourself, and to put the right question...
1:01:50 To put the right question... If you put the right question, you get the right answer. If you put the wrong question, of course, there is no answer to it.
1:02:07 So it is very important to put the right question, and to find out why you put that question, because in the very asking of the right question there is the right answer.
1:02:25 And to whom are you asking the question?
1:02:32 Are you putting the question to the speaker to get the answer, or are you putting the question in order to investigate together?
1:02:48 If you are putting the question in order to investigate together, we are sharing together the question.
1:02:56 Which means, a question shared means that it is an intense question, that it is a problem.
1:03:09 And sharing implies, as we pointed out, that you must be at the same level, at the same time, with the same intensity, otherwise the question has no meaning.
1:03:20 You can’t share it. All this doesn’t prevent you from asking the question, please.
1:03:30 But to find out for yourself, deeply, why you are asking the question, whether it is superficial, casual, or a real question that demands action out of your own heart and mind.
1:03:49 Right, let’s proceed.
1:03:51 Q: Sir, I would like to ask, as I’ve been sitting here listening to you speak, I get the feeling that what you want us to understand is a desire for us to understand... [inaudible] and it comes across to me that you do in fact want us to understand what you're saying.
1:04:10 To carry that on... [inaudible] K: Just a minute sir, the bells are louder.
1:04:47 Q: Can you hear me now, sir?
1:04:51 K: Sir, can you listen to those bells without verbalising it?
1:04:59 Just to listen to the sound, not that it’s Catholic, Protestant church, or this or that, but just to listen to the beauty of the sound.
1:06:21 Right, sir.
1:06:23 Q: I'm afraid I forgot the question.
1:06:35 K: Have you... Some of you probably are practising what is called transcendental meditation, aren’t you? Some of you?
1:06:52 That is, through repetition of a mantra, which is the sound, float off into something.
1:07:11 We won’t go into this whole question of meditation, perhaps we will tomorrow morning.
1:07:25 Sound has extraordinary importance.
1:07:32 After all, music is sound.
1:07:39 To hear something very clearly, without any interpretation, without any distortion, is a marvellous thing.
1:07:55 To hear another speak and to listen to it without any interpretation, then you are in direct relationship with that speaker.
1:08:14 Perhaps some of you, this morning, listened without interpreting, without comparing, without saying whether he is contradicting himself, or this or that – actually listening, without any image between you and the speaker.
1:08:40 Then you will see that if you listen so intently, then you are listening, and that act of listening absolves all problems.
1:08:58 Now, sir, what was the question? Yes, sir?
1:09:05 Q: I never did ask my question.
1:09:06 K: I thought you had forgotten it.
1:09:08 Q: No, that was just… I had not forgotten it. The question that I wished to ask was, as I sit here today, listening to you, I get the feeling that you are, as I say, emphatic that you want us to get what you have to say, you want us to understand what it is you are attempting to communicate.
1:09:29 There is something inside you, and me, perhaps, that wishes to get this message across.
1:09:38 You have a motivation, you have an inspiration, you have a drive inside you that makes you want to come here today, that makes you want to sit here and speak to us, that makes you want to communicate with us.
1:09:50 Where do you stand in relationship to that ‘me’?
1:09:57 K: You come this morning, the questioner says, with a motive.
1:10:04 You want us to understand something of what you are saying, so it becomes a motive.
1:10:14 You are emphatic in what you want to say. What is the relationship between that motive and the ‘me’ and the ‘me’ in me? Right.
1:10:31 First of all, what do we mean by communication?
1:10:40 The word ‘to commune’ means to share, to think together, to create together, to be on the same level at the same moment, with the same intensity, otherwise you cannot understand what is being said.
1:11:10 That's what the word ‘communication' means. If you look it up in a dictionary you will find it. Now, the question is, 'What is the relationship, or the communication between the motive that makes you come here this morning and the ‘me’ that you must have in coming?'
1:11:45 Is that the question, sir?
1:11:46 Q: Yes, that’s correct.
1:11:52 K: Now, why did I come this morning?
1:11:59 What is the motive? First of all, is there a motive?
1:12:08 Motive, the word ‘motive’ means to move. What made me move to come here?
1:12:24 Now, if I came here, if the speaker came here this morning in order to feel exhilarated, gather, from talking to you, a certain form of energy, that is, exploit you for himself – you are following all this? – then that becomes a particular kind of motive.
1:12:59 That is, in addressing you, the speaker gets satisfaction, then it must be a motive.
1:13:10 But if the speaker has no desire, or no intention of gathering strength or excitement or energy from talking, then there is no motive in that, is there?
1:13:28 You are following all this? I didn’t come to exploit you. The speaker is not here in order to derive a certain kind of thrill for himself in talking to people, that would be exploitation.
1:13:50 Right? So, it is not for that kind of motive he has come.
1:14:00 Then why has he come? And who is asking this question? You, sitting there, saying, ‘Why have you come? What is the reason of taking all this trouble and addressing us?
1:14:23 What is the point of it?’ Would you ask that question if you saw a beautiful flower?
1:14:36 Would you say, ‘Why do you exist? What is your motive? Why are you so beautiful? What lovely scent you have!’ Would you ask that question? You wouldn’t, would you? You would just look, you say, ‘How beautiful, how lovely.’ Then, what you look at is your own beauty.
1:15:11 That’s all. You’ve understood the answer?
1:15:15 Q: Yes.
1:15:19 Q: Sir, would you share with us some of your feelings when you observe a tree?
1:15:28 K: Would you share with us some of your feelings when you observe a tree, when you observe the mountain, when you observe the movement of a bird or the light on the water, or a face that is really beautiful, with a smile?
1:15:52 What is your feeling? Share it with us, the gentleman asks.
1:16:04 I really don’t know, but we’ll try.
1:16:15 First of all, when you observe a tree, you are not identifying yourself with the tree.
1:16:31 Identification with something is another phenomenon of separation.
1:16:39 Right? I identify myself with you because I am separate from you.
1:16:50 I identify myself with God or with an idea or with some beauty because I am not beautiful, I identify myself with that.
1:17:02 Now, when I look at a tree, when the speaker looks at a tree, there is no identification with the tree, he doesn’t become the tree, thank God.
1:17:13 Right? That would be absurd if he became the tree. No?
1:17:22 So there is no identification. Then when you observe non-verbally, what takes place?
1:17:34 'non-verbally' implying without an image. Right? I am going into this very deeply, you are going to face this yourself, presently.
1:17:49 What takes place between the observer and the observed?
1:17:58 If the observer is full of images, then the thing observed has no relationship with the observer. Right?
1:18:12 It is getting complicated.
1:18:20 If there is an observer as the thinker, then there is a division between the observer and the observed.
1:18:30 That’s clear, isn’t it? Right, sir? Now, can you observe the tree without the observer?
1:18:43 The observer being the image, the knowledge, the verbal statement, 'That is an oak.'
1:18:54 That is, can you observe a tree without any image?
1:19:02 Then what takes place?
1:19:11 There is a perception of the tree which you have never seen before.
1:19:20 There is a communication, sharing with the tree, the beauty of the tree, the shape of the tree, the leaf, the light of the sun on a particular leaf, you see the totality of it, without division, which is a totally different feeling from taking a drug which destroys the separation between you and the tree.
1:19:48 We won’t go into that. Now, let’s move a little further. When you observe your friend, your wife or your husband, or your boy or girl, how do you observe?
1:20:05 Don’t you observe with an image? The image that you have built about her or him? Don’t you?
1:20:22 Obviously. Then what takes place?
1:20:29 Then there is division between you and the person whom you are observing.
1:20:37 So you never see the person at all, you are only seeing the person through the image that you have about that person.
1:20:48 Haven’t you noticed this phenomenon between a husband and wife, between people who have known each other for some time?
1:20:59 You are looking at that person through the image that you have built during the period of twenty, or five, or even a day.
1:21:10 So you are never in communication with that person.
1:21:20 So, you can be related or in communication with another only when there is no image being formed.
1:21:32 You know, it's quite an arduous task this, especially when you are living with somebody day after day, not to create an image about that person.
1:21:48 When you say, ‘I know that person’, you mean you know, or you have known, or knew him ten days, or ten years ago.
1:22:03 You don’t know him as he is now. So, where there is an image, there must be division.
1:22:16 And where there is an image, there cannot be any communication between you and another.
1:22:25 And that's why our relationship with each other is so rotten.
1:22:32 That's why we are perpetually quarrelling.
1:22:41 That's why, if you have an image about reality, about truth, about God, about the immeasurable, then there is a division between you and that.
1:23:01 Yes, sir?
1:23:02 Q: Krishnamurti, K: Just a minute, sir.
1:23:06 Q: I'd like to know why you avoid the use of the term ‘I’ in reference to yourself. I am puzzled when I observe you. For example, you say, ‘When I’ then you correct yourself – K: Does not matter, sir, that's not important.
1:23:20 Q: You correct yourself and say, ‘The speaker'.
1:23:22 K: That's not important, surely. Yes, sir?
1:23:28 Q: Krishnamurti, I had no choice in being born.
1:23:35 [Inaudible] I have no choice in dying.
1:23:43 I did not create existence. I have no choice… [inaudible] Why are the problems in the world now, my problems?
1:23:56 K: I have no choice in being born, I have no choice in dying, I have no choice in all the problems that exist.
1:24:09 Why am I burdened with all these problems? Right sir, that’s the question, isn’t it?
1:24:19 Q: Not completely. I am not insensitive to what is taking place in the world, but the world is not my creation.
1:24:32 K: The world is not my creation, and I am not insensitive to the world.
1:24:38 Q: [Inaudible] K: What is the question, sir?
1:24:51 Q: Why existence at all?
1:24:59 K: Why do I exist at all? The fact is that you do exist. It is far more important to understand your existence than why you exist.
1:25:16 I exist, you exist, the world exists.
1:25:24 The world is me, I am the world. If you once understand this, not verbally, but actually feel it, know it, understand it, that you are the world, because you have created the world through your greed, through your ambition, through your competition, through your envy, through your violence, through your desire to fulfil – you have made this world.
1:26:00 You, your parents, your grandparents, the culture – you have made this world.
1:26:09 And if you say, 'I am not responsible for it, but my grandmother is’ it has no meaning.
1:26:18 We are responsible for it, and therefore being responsible, we have to resolve it, we have to do something about it, not just say, ‘We are the world’ and just sit back.
1:26:34 So, to see what the world is, is to see ourselves.
1:26:43 And in the understanding of ourselves, we’ll resolve the problems not only of a human being but of the world.
1:26:54 Q: [Inaudible] K: I understand, sir.
1:27:10 I want to listen to you, and that's why I came this morning, but my mind can’t sustain a long period through which I can listen. It wanders off.
1:27:22 What am I to do? Is that it? Don’t do anything. No, please listen. If your mind wanders off, let it wander, which means you're really not interested in listening.
1:27:44 But if you say, ‘Well, I want to listen, and yet it wanders off' then you create conflict. You understand, sir? Let it wander off. Look at the tree. When you do look at the tree, look at it.
1:28:03 Look at it with all your being. And you can’t sustain... to look at the tree with all your being for a half an hour, so your mind wanders off, thinks about... I don’t know – tennis.
1:28:20 Then think about it! Don’t say, ‘I mustn’t think, I must listen.’ So, when you want to listen, listen as long as you can, completely, fully.
1:28:40 And when the thought goes off to something else, watch that too, so that there is no conflict whatsoever.
1:28:52 It is only the mind that is completely without conflict is a creative mind. That’s enough, sir. SUBTITLE COPYRIGHT TEXT 1972 KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION TRUST LTD