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OJ72T2 - Order has its own law
Ojai, California - 9 April 1972
Public Talk 2



1:52 Krishnamurti: Shall we continue with what we were talking about yesterday?
2:01 We were saying that mere physical revolution has very little significance, and what has meaning, a depth, is the psychological revolution: a total change in one’s attitude, values and behaviour.
2:39 Either we change superficially, adjusting to superficial demands, or we go much more deeply into the whole structure and nature of consciousness where the revolution must take place.
3:09 That’s what we were more or less talking about yesterday.
3:18 I think we ought to go into it much deeper this morning, bearing in mind, depth, the word ‘depth’ has no measurement.
3:31 It is really immeasurable. And the more one goes into it, the deeper, the wider, the more unfathomable it is.
3:46 But we must begin with order.
4:01 Order, it seems to me, is not a mental directive, or a disciplined conformity, or the effect of constant battle within oneself or outwardly.
4:30 Order has its own law.
4:39 And if we are at all serious – and one should be in a mad world, in a world that’s crumbling about us, in a world that has become almost insane – sanity is essential, sanity is order.
5:06 And this order comes about naturally, without any effort, if we understand what is disorder.
5:24 And as we said yesterday, we are together considering the matter.
5:37 You're not merely listening to a speaker, accepting or rejecting his words, but rather, we are together taking a journey in the investigation, into the investigation of the whole process of disorder.
6:08 That is, we are trying to communicate with each other what is disorder, trying to understand, together, what brings disorder in our life.
6:23 And in the understanding of that, naturally, order will come.
6:30 Order then is not a blueprint, a design which forces the mind to conform, but rather the understanding of what is the nature and structure of disorder.
6:55 All right?
7:02 It’s a lovely morning, isn’t it?
7:13 Our lives, the life that we lead daily, – not the ideological life, not the life of what one should be, but the life of ‘what is’, actually, every day – in that everyday life, we lead a disorderly life, a life that's contradictory, that is self-centred, that has innumerable values: imaginative, contrived, remembered.
8:06 Please, as we said yesterday, and if I may repeat again, use, if I may suggest, the words of the speaker to observe yourself, to look at your own daily life, actually what it is – not theoretically, not in abstraction, but actually as it is taking place in one’s life.
8:45 If you observe, and are aware of your life at all, one sees that there is a great deal of conflict, struggle, contradiction, comparative competitiveness, both psychologically and outwardly, and these are the contributing factors of disorder.
9:18 That is, human beings are conditioned according to the culture they live in, according to the country, the environment, the economic situation, and so on.
9:39 This conditioning may vary from China, India, Europe and America.
9:51 In this conditioning we live, and in that life, there is this constant struggle, constant adjustment to certain values projected by society or by oneself, or values that we have inherited, and so on.
10:33 The factor of disorder is essentially the contradiction in oneself: saying one thing, doing another, thinking something totally different.
11:00 And this contradiction must inevitably create disorder.
11:08 That is a simple fact, psychological fact, as when there are two nations opposed in ideologies and religious outlook, they must inevitably be in contradiction with each other and prepare for war, as it has been going on through centuries.
11:33 That again is a fact.
11:41 Now, either we change superficially, bring a certain kind of order outwardly, through legislation, through law, through politics, economic adjustment, and so on, or we understand the nature of disorder in ourselves, and see, as we explained what is meant by seeing yesterday.
12:20 In that very perception, is the ordering of our life without any effort.
12:31 I think this needs a little explanation.
12:38 You see, as we were saying yesterday, perception is of the highest importance.
12:47 Either you perceive through an image, and therefore you don’t perceive at all, or you perceive directly.
12:56 And the perception which is direct has immediate action because goodness doesn’t flower in the field of time.
13:11 You understand that?
13:20 I said just now, goodness doesn’t flower in the field of time.
13:30 Time being not only postponement, but conformity to an idea, to an ideology, to 'what should be', the gradual idea of getting better – all that is in the field of time.
13:56 In that field, there is more conflict, there is no goodness.
14:04 And goodness can only flower in the field in which time doesn’t exist at all.
14:15 Have we communicated with each other? Questioner: Yes.
14:20 K: No. Have we? Wait a minute, sir, you can ask questions at the end of the talk.
14:33 Because when the house is burning, you have no time to put it out. You don’t say whether he’s a long-bearded gentleman who began the fire, what colour, and so on.
14:48 You act instantly. There is no time involved. And our house is on fire. You may live in this beautiful valley, or live in a country where there is plenty, but yet, your house is burning, and we must act immediately.
15:19 And action can only take place when you see actually the nature of disorder in one’s own life, which is causing such havoc in the world.
15:37 Because what you are, you project that in the world.
15:48 And seeing the truth of that, is to act immediately, and the immediacy of action is goodness.
16:03 Please, don’t agree or disagree.
16:10 Don’t remember this phrase about goodness, but actually see the truth of it, see the reality of it, the beauty of it, not tomorrow, but as you’re sitting there listening – if you are at all listening – see actually one’s own life in such mess, confusion, contradiction, great deal of sorrow, pain, not only physical, but psychological pains and frustrations – that whole life of ours which we call living.
17:13 As we said, either we bring superficial order, and therefore adjust to certain ideologies, symbols, and so on, or you go into the whole structure and nature of consciousness, of yourself, as you are.
17:44 And that’s what we're going to do this morning, a little bit. This is not group therapy.
17:55 This is not a confessional. This is not an analytical process. Analysis to me is postponement, it has no reality.
18:11 I can go on analysing my life for the next thirty years till I die, and I’m still analysing at the end of it.
18:21 Analysis implies time. Analysis implies the analyser and the analysed, and therefore, there is division in that, and therefore conflict.
18:37 So we are not analysing, nor is it group therapy, nor are we doing a propaganda.
18:53 Propaganda is always furthering a lie. Right?
19:01 You all accept all this, don’t you? Quite easily. Why is that? Either you don’t understand what we’re talking about, or you understand it, and therefore it is natural.
19:20 What we are going to do together, this lovely morning, is to observe ourselves clearly as we are using the words of the speaker as a mirror.
19:43 Either the mirror distorts, or the mirror shows exactly 'what is'.
19:55 There is distortion only when you say, ‘I don’t like or I like, this is my opinion or judgement, this is right and this is wrong, this should be or should not be’.
20:09 Then distortion takes place.
20:17 If you belong to any particular society, or to a particular group, or conditioned according to Catholicism, Protestantism, – you know, all the rest of the divisions of various religious sects in the world – and being so conditioned, look at the mirror, then you are distorting, distorting the fact of ‘what is’.
20:48 Whereas if you look without opinions, judgements, evaluations, or being aware of your conditioning, putting that aside and observing, then there is no distortion, then you and I are observing exactly ‘what is’.
21:16 You know, to observe needs a great deal of energy.
21:27 If you want to observe that tree very closely you have to attend to it.
21:35 You have to give your mind and your heart to the light on the leaf, to the shape of the trunk, to every movement of the branches, you have to give your whole attention to it.
21:53 But if you are vaguely looking at it, and your thoughts wandering off, then it’s a wastage of energy, the wandering off, and therefore you do not have the sufficient energy to observe.
22:12 Is that all right?
22:20 As we said, either we observe that bird...
22:50 We observe without an image, or with an image.
23:00 The observation through an image is a wastage of energy, and you need energy to change ‘what is’.
23:15 And we are going to investigate together ‘what is’.
23:26 Now, we have divided consciousness as the conscious and the hidden: the conscious mind and the unconscious mind, the subconscious, and so on – all the various divisions.
23:46 We are familiar with the conscious activity of the mind: what it thinks, the various jobs it has to do, the automatic, habitual activity, the everyday events, actions, that have to be carried out.
24:15 Then there is all that movement which is hidden, which is the unconscious, the deeper layers of the mind.
24:33 Now, to bring about a radical revolution in the whole consciousness, which is necessary in order to produce quite a different kind of civilisation in which man can live in peace with another man without conflict, one has to look at this whole content.
25:04 Either one brings about superficial order at the conscious level, or one brings about, through mere observation, order…
25:28 whether order is within consciousness or outside of it.
25:36 I wonder, is this all too complicated? Bene? May I go on? Look, we try to bring order, don’t we, within consciousness?
25:55 That is, we try to analyse, we try to conform, we try to discipline, we try to change the pattern of our thought, of our existence, and so on – within consciousness.
26:14 And consciousness is the content... is the content. Consciousness cannot exist without its content.
26:29 And we are trying to move the contents in different places, and hoping thereby to bring order, whereas order exists outside consciousness.
26:55 You understand the first proposition, the first perception: seeing that the content is consciousness.
27:08 You have no consciousness without all its content: your thoughts, your ideas, your hopes, your despairs, your sense of frustration – all that is your consciousness.
27:22 And in that consciousness, you are trying to bring order.
27:29 And order cannot exist in that consciousness.
27:36 Order can only exist outside, at a different dimension.
27:47 Now, how is it possible to reach, or to come upon that dimension?
27:58 Right? You are following? I realise, if I am in that state, I realise that my life is conflict, both outwardly and inwardly.
28:18 I realise that my consciousness, the ‘me’, is its content – the furniture, the attachments, the sense of possession, the desire for power, position, prestige, status, pleasure, fear – all that is my consciousness.
28:46 And I am trying to bring order in that consciousness, and I see that’s not possible.
28:59 There is order only outside that consciousness, and the mind must try to find out what that different dimension is.
29:23 First of all, I see my life is fear – enormous amount of fear.
29:38 My life is guided through fear and pleasure. Those are the true central facts of one’s life, pleasure and fear.
29:53 They are the two sides of the same coin. May I go on? There’s lots more to talk about, that’s why I want to get on with it. And I hope you can follow all this. If not, I’m sorry, I can’t help you. So, one’s life is based on these two factors, pleasure and fear, and what we call love.
30:29 Is love pleasure? Is love desire? Or is it something entirely different? And also, I must find out what is death, because that’s part of my living.
30:51 So one’s life is pleasure, fear, love, and death.
31:11 And within that field, the mind is not only trying to bring about order, but also it wants security – within that field.
31:26 Because the brain cells can only function efficiently, totally, effectively, when it is completely secure, whether it can be secure neurotically or secure in freedom.
31:54 I do not know, if you have not noticed, the neurotic people are secure in an idea, in a belief, in a concept.
32:04 To them, that becomes the very essence of security.
32:13 So, when the mind seeks security in an idea, it is neurotic.
32:27 Do you accept that? Do you see it? Or when it finds security in a belief, in a dogma, in a concept.
32:42 It finds security there, but it’s a neurotic security because it essentially divides people.
32:59 And seeing all this in one’s life – the conflict, the misery, the sorrow, the fear, the anxiety that comes about when one has the ideological faith in something, the despair, the utter sense of frustration – that’s our life.
33:40 And we are frightened of death, old age, disease, and death.
33:52 That is the whole living of our life.
34:02 And being afraid, we believe.
34:09 Being afraid, we have faith in something.
34:16 Being afraid of death, we have various theories, believe in reincarnation, resurrection, you know, every form of hope.
34:31 And that is our daily life of disorder.
34:40 Now, how is one to bring about order in this disordered world, which is myself, which is yourself?
34:53 How is one to live a life that is completely orderly, without any contradiction?
35:06 I think that is what most of us want. The more sane, rational, we are, the more demanding that our life be rational, healthy, moral, righteous.
35:26 And not finding it there, then we invest, not only our money, but also our hope, in churches, in myths, in various doctrines, and all the imported, exotic religions: Krishna consciousness – all right?
36:03 – various forms of yoga, various forms of meditation.
36:17 When something of that kind is imported into this country, you ought to immediately export it because you don’t know a thing about it.
36:32 You’re a lot of gullible people. All that you want is experience which will give you pleasure.
36:45 And you have tried drugs, and you are quarrelling over marijuana, and you will quarrel over something else because all that you’re concerned with is the furthering of pleasure in experience, and therefore, that brings more disorder in your life.
37:14 So what we are going to do now, is to see whether the human mind – your mind, the human mind – can radically change.
37:35 You will say then, ‘How is it important if one individual, one human being changes?
37:45 How can he affect the whole world?’ You know, if you were changing, if you actually were changing you would never put that question.
38:00 It’s only the person who is not changing, wants to find an excuse for not changing, and says, ‘Well, what good will that do if I change?’ What we are trying to do here this morning, is to understand and talk or
38:24 see the significance of total change.
38:32 As we said, order doesn’t exist within the field of consciousness.
38:42 If you see that clearly for yourself, then you will ask, 'How is the mind, which is so disorderly, so corrupt, so petty, shoddy, how is that mind to come upon something totally different, at a different dimension altogether?'
39:12 Is the question clear? You understand my question? Now, when you put that question to yourself, that is: one lives in disorder, and one sees any form of movement of thought in that field will further disorder. Right?
39:54 Therefore one says, 'How is the mind, which is so chattering, which is so active, which is so endlessly imagining, remembering, contriving, how is that mind to bring order?'
40:17 Have you got the question clear?
40:29 Now, to bring about order, the mind must be completely silent.
40:46 And that’s where the importance lies of meditation.
40:58 You know, that word has been brought from India, and there are various forms of meditation in this country.
41:14 And we are going to tear them all to pieces, seeing what is false in all of them.
41:28 When you see what is false, you see the truth of it, and therefore you'll never touch it.
41:39 Because the whole idea is the mind must be absolutely quiet to bring about order within itself.
41:55 Because to look at that tree, if your mind is chattering, you can’t look. You can only look completely if your mind is quiet. That’s simple, isn’t it? That means you must give your whole attention to it.
42:18 Attention being not only seeing the significance of the look, the understanding, the intelligence, – all that is implied in being completely attentive – otherwise you cannot possibly see anything or hear anything.
42:46 You know, when you love music, you listen, don’t you?
42:55 You listen to it with your heart, with your mind, with your body, with your eyes, with everything that you have, otherwise you are not a musician, you are just enjoying sound.
43:13 So, you can observe only when the mind is completely still.
43:25 You can see another only when your mind is quiet, when your mind is not filled with images, then you can see another, and be totally in communication with another.
43:47 Silence is necessary to listen.
43:57 That is the central factor of observation.
44:04 To see clearly, the mind must be completely quiet, and your body too – the whole structure.
44:15 Your mind, your brain cells and your nerves must be totally quiet, otherwise you cannot see clearly.
44:29 Now, that is the fact, which you and I understand it fairly simply.
44:38 Then the question arises, 'How is the mind to be made quiet?'
44:46 You understand? That’s the natural, normal question. That's a wrong question, and in that you are caught.
44:59 You yourself see that when you listen to something, when you see a beautiful mountain, a tree, a bird on the wing, your mind must be totally quiet.
45:15 You see that, you understand it, you do it. And you say, ‘If I could make my mind so quiet, then everything would be simple.’ Then you ask: 'How is it to be made quiet?'
45:38 When you ask that question, there are all the gurus, the teachers, the students, the professionals that say, ‘I will teach you how to be quiet.’ Right? You are following all this?
45:56 So they have a system.
46:03 As I said, we are going to tear all this to pieces to find out. You may belong to all of them, probably you do, you’ve got your own system of meditation, or system of this or that.
46:18 And we are going to look into all that. System implies a goal, an end, and a means to that end, doesn’t it?
46:34 Please listen to this carefully. There is the Christian method, the Hindu method, the Zen method, the various methods, including the transcendental methods.
46:57 Method being a means to an end – the end you have projected.
47:13 You have projected the end, calling it enlightenment, God, whatever it is, whether you have projected it, or your guru, or your teacher, or your priest, they have projected it for you, and you accept it.
47:31 And then they offer you the method to achieve that end.
47:38 The end is your projection. And when you practise the method, which promises the achievement of that end, it is the process of self-hypnosis.
47:54 Got it? You know, I used to know a man – for twenty-five years he practised meditation, nothing else but that.
48:17 He left his family, went off into the woods, lived a monastic life, and meditated.
48:27 And unfortunately, somebody brought him to one of the talks in which the speaker was talking about meditation, amongst other things, and pointed out that this form of meditation with a system and an end is self-hypnosis.
48:52 He came to see me the next day, and he said, ‘You are perfectly right. Twenty-five years I’ve practised meditation, and now I realise that I have wasted my life.’ You know, that requires a great deal of perception and vitality, and energy, to acknowledge something that’s not true that you have been doing.
49:18 Then there is this imported transcendental meditation – mantra yoga.
49:28 You know this? Do some of you do that? Or you are ashamed to acknowledge it.
49:42 As I said, you ought to export immediately all these things.
49:49 They are a wastage of energy. They bring illusion.
49:58 You know, the whole idea of mantra yoga, which is transcendental meditation in this country, the whole idea is that through a repetition of certain words, first verbally, loudly, then silently, and after reaching a certain point, you take off – whatever that may mean.
50:37 You can repeat any word, but it’s more romantic if it is a Sanskrit word.
50:49 It is a word, or a series of words which your teacher, your guru gives to you, in secrecy.
50:58 You pay for it, and you think you are going to get heaven. You do get heaven, but it’s your heaven invented by you.
51:13 And they are also adding now, a new kind of yoga, which is kundalini yoga.
51:20 You’ve heard of that too, I’m sure. Don’t touch any of these things. They are most dangerous.
51:33 That is, if I may tell you, but if you enjoy illusion, if you enjoy being in a state of hypnotising yourself in the name of God or enlightenment or truth, go to it.
51:54 And there are various forms of disciplines, practices, all promising what you want, which is enlightenment, happiness, truth, and so on.
52:11 That is, you want more and more wider experiences, because you’re bored with your daily life.
52:26 But you see that only a silent mind can observe.
52:36 Only a silent mind can bring about a complete order.
52:45 So when you for yourself see the truth that no system – it doesn’t matter who says it – that any movement of thought must inevitably bring about a division, and therefore conflict, when you see the truth of all this, your mind becomes quiet.
53:23 To see the truth of all this is to have a quiet mind. You understand this?
53:35 So you see, our difficulty is knowing we live a disorderly life, we are incapable of bringing order into it because we want order according to our contrivance, we want order according to our imagination, according to our pleasure and convenience, and in that field there is no order at all.
54:21 If you see that, and to see that, you need a quiet mind. You understand?
54:34 Now, a further thing, which is: what is reality?
54:58 Is there something which is not put together by the mind, by thought, by imagination?
55:09 Is there something which is not measurable, which man has been seeking for thousands and thousands of years?
55:20 You’ve understood my question? Man has always asked, from the beginning of time, knowing that his life comes to an end, knowing that he is always endlessly in conflict with himself and with the world, and knowing that he cannot bring order into that, then he asks if there is something beyond all that.
56:00 In that very asking, he is escaping from his own life. You understand? We are not escaping. We see order is necessary, that must be established.
56:15 Then you can ask the question – after establishing, laying the foundation of behaviour, righteousness, order – then one can ask the question: 'Is there something beyond all this?'
56:31 You are following me? Am I making myself clear?
56:40 Now, how is one going to find out?
56:48 You can believe in something, you can believe that there is something which is beyond time and thought.
56:57 Belief is not an actuality. You don’t believe that the sun is shining – it is shining. It’s only when you do not know, when you haven’t understood, when it isn’t in your mind, then you believe, then you have faith in something.
57:23 So, to find that out, the mind must be free totally from belief, mustn’t it?
57:41 Belief implies fear. There is your belief, another’s belief. Belief divides people. So the mind must be free, free from fear which has created all our conditioning, both physical conditioning as well as psychological conditioning.
58:17 So can the mind be free of fear? Fear exists only in the movement of thought.
58:33 And from that realisation, one says, ‘Can thought be quiet?’ Thought functioning logically, sanely, effectively in one direction, and completely quiet in another direction.
58:57 Because thought creates fear. That is, you are living now, and there is death.
59:08 Death is some time in the future, or perhaps tomorrow or far away.
59:15 Thought says, ‘I am afraid of that state of which I do not know, therefore I am frightened.’ Fear is, as pleasure, the product of thought.
59:31 If you see the truth of that, not intellectually, verbally, then fear comes to an end.
59:45 So, freedom is absolutely necessary to find out if there is something beyond all this confusion, mess, ugliness, beauty, you know, this thing that we call living, in which we try to bring order, in which all serious people do bring order, so that they behave righteously.
1:00:18 There must be freedom. Freedom is not to do what you like. Freedom has responsibility.
1:00:37 Freedom implies order. And in that freedom, because the mind is demanding freedom, that very freedom brings its own discipline.
1:00:55 That is, the word ‘discipline’ means to learn, not to conform, not to suppress, but to learn.
1:01:11 Learn ‘what is’, not about ‘what should be’.
1:01:21 So freedom from fear, freedom from every form of belief.
1:01:31 And there must be freedom of not belonging to a group.
1:01:40 You understand? Freedom from following, from accepting a teacher, a guru.
1:01:59 Freedom not to follow, therefore, freedom from authority.
1:02:08 You understand? The authority of law is one thing, and the psychological authority and the acceptance of authority, psychologically, is another.
1:02:28 We are talking about the psychological authority. Because you are afraid, therefore you follow somebody. You want enlightenment, which is your projection, therefore you follow your guru, or whatever the gentleman or lady is.
1:02:49 So there must be freedom from authority, from fear, from belief, which means that you are completely alone – not isolated.
1:03:11 Because when you are alone, then you are directly in relationship with another.
1:03:21 Like a beautiful flower, it is alone.
1:03:28 It may have other flowers similar to it, but it is so beautiful, it is alone. What is beautiful is always alone.
1:03:42 It is only such a mind that can come upon this thing that is immeasurable, that has no name, that cannot be put into words.
1:04:00 Because what is described... The description is not the described. The word is not the thing. It is only a mind that has understood this whole phenomenon of living, and is able to understand itself, it is only such a mind that is completely free and quiet, still, that can come upon this extraordinary thing that man has sought through millennia.
1:04:51 Would you like to ask questions about this? Yes, sir?
1:04:56 Q: If I am free of fear and my mind is quiet, would I be looking for anything?
1:05:04 K: If my mind is free from fear, and is completely quiet, would I be looking for anything?
1:05:21 If my mind is quiet, free from fear, would I be looking for anything?
1:05:31 You see, you have put a question which is not a question at all. I am not being rude to you, sir. When you say, 'If I am in a state of no fear, then will I be seeking anything?'
1:05:52 But you are not in a state of not being afraid, that is a supposition. That has no reality. Right?
1:06:02 It’s like my saying, ‘Well, if I was the Queen of England, I would do this’, but I’m not the Queen of England.
1:06:14 So you put an impossible question, saying, 'If I am that, then what shall I do?' But first, sir, be free of fear, and then you will know whether there is something to seek or not, then there is no such thing as seeking.
1:06:33 Do you know what that word means: 'to seek?'
1:06:40 To search out, to find out.
1:06:49 That’s the meaning of that word ‘to seek’. Now you are seeking. What are you seeking? And how do you know that what you find is the real?
1:07:07 How will you know what you find may be a false thing?
1:07:14 So, to find out in your search what is true there must be recognition, mustn’t there?
1:07:22 Right? You're following this? I must recognise in my search, 'that is the truth' or 'that is the false'.
1:07:31 Now, recognition implies something I’ve already known.
1:07:40 So what I am doing when I am using the word ‘seeking’, I am only seeking what I have already known.
1:07:49 You follow? Therefore, don’t seek, but be with ‘what is’.
1:08:01 You see, sir? Look, there is fear – of that we all know – fear of death, fear of old age, fear of yesterday’s pain being repeated, fear of public opinion, fear of being dominated, fear of not being loved.
1:08:25 Fear – we all know that. Fear of loneliness. Now, that’s a fact. Now, what takes place when there is fear? You want to go beyond it, you want to conquer it, you want to suppress it, you want to escape from it.
1:08:48 When you escape from it, when you want to suppress it, when you try to conquer it, through courage, and all the rest of it, you are wasting energy because the fact is fear, that is ‘what is’.
1:09:04 Now, if you don’t escape, but actually see the fear, then what takes place?
1:09:13 You're following all this? Now look, there is fear. I don’t escape through any form from the actual fact that there is fear, or envy.
1:09:32 Now, how do I recognise that it is fear? How do I know it is fear? Because I’ve had similar reaction before. Otherwise, I couldn’t recognise it as fear, could I? Are you following all this? Or you're getting tired at the end of an hour?
1:09:59 So fear, when I say it is fear, it has already occurred, it has already happened before.
1:10:10 And when I say, 'I am afraid,' I am only strengthening what has happened before.
1:10:17 Are you following all this? So can I look at that thing which I’ve called fear non-verbally?
1:10:37 You’ve got fears, haven’t you? Haven’t you, sirs? You have, obviously, otherwise you wouldn’t be sitting here.
1:10:49 And can you look at that fear without escaping from it?
1:10:56 Just look at it. Don’t analyse, which is another form of an escape. Don’t say, ‘What has caused that fear?’ which is another wastage of energy, but to look at it without any form of escape.
1:11:21 That means you have energy to look, haven’t you? Because you are not escaping, you are not wasting energy through escape. Right?
1:11:32 So there is fear. Now, how do you look at it? Verbally? That is, has the word created the fear?
1:11:46 You understand what I'm saying?
1:11:53 Has the word 'fear' created the fear, or is there fear without the word?
1:12:02 The word being the memory of the fear which you have had before. Oh, come on sirs, be quick, get on with it.
1:12:16 Wait a minute, please look. I am afraid for various reasons – death. I’m afraid.
1:12:28 I am not escaping, not escaping by saying I must conquer, I must overcome it, I must do this, I must do that.
1:12:42 So I do not escape, I am facing the fact as it is.
1:12:49 Now, is the fact the result of a word, the word being the memory of a previous fear?
1:13:01 Or is this fear something totally new, and therefore non-verbal?
1:13:10 You understand this? How do I look at it? Am I looking through the word or without the word?
1:13:24 If I look without the word, is it fear?
1:13:35 That is, now I have complete energy to look.
1:13:42 And when I do look with total energy, fear is not. Do this sir, you will see.
1:13:54 Take envy, of which you are all familiar.
1:14:01 Envy is comparison, measurement. Please listen to this. Envious: 'You look so nice, you’re so beautiful. You are intelligent, I am dull, I am stupid. You are much better than I am. You are a success, I am a failure. You are this, and you are that' – comparison, measurement. And that is envy. Now, can I live without envy, which is, without measurement, comparing myself with another?
1:14:41 The other may be the hero, the god, the saint, the chief executive, or whatever he is.
1:14:51 Can I look, can I live without any form of measurement?
1:14:58 To find out, I see people are envious, and one realises one is envious.
1:15:09 Then one begins to rationalise it, 'If I am not envious in this world, I’ll be destroyed', which is a wastage of energy, because I am confronted with the fact that I am envious.
1:15:27 And the whole social, religious structure is based on this envy.
1:15:36 And through envy, I’m trying to find out the immeasurable. You understand how stupid we are? So, can I live without measurement? I don’t rationalise because when I rationalise, I can find excuses to be envious.
1:16:04 Can I look at that feeling which I’ve called envy without the word which evokes or strengthens that feeling?
1:16:21 Which is, the word is the memory.
1:16:28 The word is the symbol of the past.
1:16:40 And when I look at that envy, I am looking with the eyes of the past.
1:16:52 And so can I look at it afresh? And I can only look at it afresh when there is no escape, when there is no excuse, but look at it with all my energy.
1:17:10 Then you will see that the thing which I have called envy – there is no such thing.
1:17:20 Have you understood this? Not understood it verbally, but actually doing it.
1:17:31 Yes, sir?
1:17:32 Q: So first we must look at the images which come between you and fear. Right? We must look at the images that come between you and the thing you are watching, which is fear. And then, when you’ve understood that the images prevent you from looking at fear, then the mind will be quiet and look at fear.
1:17:56 K: The question is, to look at something: the tree, you, and another, there must be no image. Right?
1:18:22 How is the image formed? And can images, being formed, prevent it? You understand?
1:18:35 Sorry.
1:18:47 How is an image formed? What is the machinery that forms an image?
1:19:01 Have you noticed, when you listen to somebody – your wife or your husband, your friend – completely, you do not form an image?
1:19:24 When you are giving complete attention…
1:19:33 Sorry.
1:19:35 Q: Krishnamurti, you swallowed saliva, it came into your lungs, and you have to give it – K: I am doing that, sir.
1:19:56 We are asking, 'How is an image formed?' and 'Why is it formed?
1:20:04 What is the machinery that forms the image?'
1:20:11 Have you noticed that when you do not pay attention, images are formed?
1:20:26 If I have a friend with whom I have lived for a number of years, I have formed an image about him: his insults, his dominance, his irritability, his pleasant phrases, his bullying, and so on.
1:20:57 I have formed an image about him. Because I have formed that image in order to protect myself against him.
1:21:08 And my relationship with him is through that image, and he has an image about myself.
1:21:24 He has an image about me, and I have an image about him. And our relationship is between these two images.
1:21:39 And I have created this image in order to protect myself.
1:21:48 Right? Isn’t that a fact, that you have an image about your husband, your friend, your wife, your neighbour, your god, in order not to be hurt, in order to survive, in order to live a life which is not conflict? You follow?
1:22:08 You isolate yourself through your image.
1:22:15 You know why you have formed it. Now can that image forming be stopped? The machinery which forms the image, can that machinery come to an end? I’ll show it to you. Please do it as we are talking, that is worthwhile, not taking it home and throwing it overboard afterwards.
1:22:45 We have understood why the machinery operates. The image making becomes important, – both outwardly, inwardly, at the conscious level as well as the unconscious level – the desire to protect oneself, not to be hurt, because we have lived a life of being hurt, from childhood we are hurt.
1:23:16 Don’t you know what it means to be hurt?
1:23:23 And you don’t want to be hurt anymore, so you protect, resist.
1:23:34 The image is the resistance. Now, how does that come into being? Can that machinery be stopped?
1:23:50 It can be stopped only when you pay complete attention to what is being said, at the moment of what is being said.
1:24:03 Have you understood, sirs? You insult me, you call me a fool, an ass, or whatever you like to call me, a great man, or marvellous this or that.
1:24:22 And when you call me a fool, I pay attention to that – complete attention.
1:24:33 Not react, not say, ‘Oh, you’re another...’ but just be totally aware of what you are being called.
1:24:48 In that state of attention, there is no image making.
1:24:57 It is only when you are inattentive, the image is formed.
1:25:04 Have you understood this? Sir, do it, then you will see you will never be hurt.
1:25:17 It’s only when you have an image about yourself as somebody, or this or that, then you are being hurt.
1:25:27 You know the word ‘innocency’ means not to hurt or be hurt.
1:25:37 The Latin word ‘nocere’ comes from that, which means not to hurt, or not to be hurt.
1:25:51 And you are hurt when you resist, when you have an image about yourself.
1:26:03 And the image making is to protect yourself against harm, against hurt, against every form of intrusion.
1:26:22 And when you see that, you give attention to what is being said – total attention, your mind, your heart, your brain, everything attends.
1:26:39 In that state of attention, there is no hurt, and therefore no image making.
1:26:48 And such a life is really a life of beauty, a great joy.
1:27:00 Q:What do you mean by not justifying, condemning or identifying?
1:27:06 K: What do you mean by justifying, condemning or judging.
1:27:28 When one is jealous – you know what it means, don’t you?
1:27:35 Or is it something new? You all know it, don’t you? When one is jealous, one justifies, doesn’t one? ‘It’s right to be jealous, she or he belonged to me. It’s mine.’ And you justify that jealousy, you say, ‘she shouldn’t have done this, or he shouldn’t have done that.’ You are envious of that person, and you rationalise it, that is explain it, so as to strengthen your jealousy.
1:28:25 You like jealousy, you justify it.
1:28:32 You recommend it, you say, 'that is part of love,' don’t you?
1:28:42 Part of love, to be jealous. Lovely, isn’t it?
1:28:58 And that’s what we mean by living a disorderly life, where you justify the unjustifiable, where you condone that which cannot be condoned.
1:29:21 How can love and jealousy exist together?
1:29:29 But that’s our way of life, which we have accepted, and we justify it.
1:29:42 That’s what it means, sir. Isn’t that enough? It’s half past twelve.
1:29:53 Basta. Right sir. SUBTITLE TEXT COPYRIGHT 1972 KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION TRUST