Krishnamurti Subtitles

What is the significance of meditation?

Ojai - 17 April 1977

Public Talk 6



1:11 This is the last talk.
 
1:16 I am sure you’ll be glad of it,
 
1:20 and I’m sure, also, I’m glad of it.
 
1:31 I would like, if I may this morning,
talk about meditation.
  
1:50 It is really one of the most
important things in life.
  
1:55 Not how to meditate,
not the system of meditation
  
2:00 nor the practice of meditation,
but rather, what is meditation.
  
2:11 And, if one can find out, very deeply,
what is the significance,
  
2:20 what is the necessity, what is
the importance of it for oneself,
  
2:26 then one puts aside
all systems, methods, gurus,
  
2:33 and all the peculiar things
that are involved
  
2:36 in the Eastern type of meditation.
 
2:44 But, before we go into it, fully,
 
2:52 I think we should go over,
rather briefly,
  
2:56 what has been said
during the last five talks.
  
3:04 It is very important, I think,
to uncover for oneself
  
3:18 what one is, what actually one is.
 
3:23 Not the theories, not the assertions
and the experiences of psychologists,
  
3:32 philosophers and the gurus
and all the rest of them,
  
3:36 but rather, investigate into
the whole structure of oneself,
  
3:45 what actually one is,
 
3:51 what is the nature
and the movement of oneself.
  
4:02 And in the transformation of oneself,
radically, psychologically,
  
4:11 one affects
the whole of consciousness of man.
  
4:19 We went into this very, very carefully
during all these talks,
  
4:24 and if I may, I would like
to go into it, briefly, again
  
4:31 because I think it is
very important to understand this.
  
4:39 All human beings
throughout the world suffer,
  
4:44 go through great agonies,
despairs, fear,
  
4:54 and there is the absolute
fear of death.
  
4:59 This is the common lot
of every human being
  
5:04 whether they live in Asia
or in the Western world,
  
5:10 whether under tyrannies or
in the so-called democratic societies
  
5:18 – this is the common lot.
 
5:21 And we don’t seem
to be able to understand
  
5:28 how extraordinarily important it is
to see what one is actually,
  
5:37 as though you were looking at
yourself in a mirror, psychologically,
  
5:43 and bring about a transformation
in the very structure of oneself.
  
5:54 Because that transformation
affects man.
  
5:59 After all, each one of us
is the history of mankind.
  
6:09 That’s a fact.
 
6:12 History in the sense,
the story of suffering, agony,
  
6:18 violence, brutality,
cruelty, ambition,
  
6:24 and all the things man has
put together, with his thought.
  
6:31 And so, when one
fundamentally, deeply,
  
6:38 brings about a transformation,
a mutation,
  
6:42 then that mutation affects
the whole consciousness of man.
  
6:54 Like those rather brutal,
violent people who are tyrants,
  
7:01 who have been tyrants,
 
7:03 who have killed
thousands and millions of people
  
7:06 for some ideologies
– communist, and other ideologies –
  
7:12 have affected
the consciousness of man.
  
7:18 This is, also,
an absolute fact and a reality.
  
7:23 So, it becomes very important,
if one is at all serious,
  
7:30 if one is concerned
with the world as it is,
  
7:36 with all its appalling misery,
confusion, uncertainty,
  
7:44 and with all the divisions
of religions, nationalities,
  
7:52 with their wars, with the accumulation
of their armaments,
  
7:58 spending enormous sums
to prepare for war, to kill people,
  
8:06 in the name of nationality
and so on and so on,
  
8:11 so it becomes vital, absolutely
important that there must be freedom,
  
8:24 freedom from this whole
content of our consciousness.
  
8:34 The content of our consciousness
are all the things
  
8:39 put together, there, by thought.
 
8:43 We went into that,
very closely and definitely.
  
8:50 Thought, as we said,
is the response of memory
  
8:59 stored up in the brain cells,
 
9:03 that memory is knowledge, experience,
 
9:09 and the response and the movement
of memory, is thought.
  
9:17 So, thought is limited
and whatever it does,
  
9:24 both in the technological world,
as well as in the psychological field,
  
9:29 must be limited,
 
9:32 because thought, in itself,
is a fragment,
  
9:37 a movement of fragmentation.
 
9:41 I think this was very clear,
 
9:45 and all the talks we have emphasised
this particular point.
  
9:49 And even the scientists –
and when we use the word ‘scientists,’
  
9:54 those people have gone
into all this business –
  
9:58 even they agree,
and so, perhaps, you’ll also,
  
10:02 because the scientists say so,
you’ll also easily accept.
  
10:11 But we’re not talking of acceptance.
 
10:14 We are seeing the fact for ourselves,
not according to anybody,
  
10:22 including that of the speaker,
 
10:26 because there is no – as we said – no
authority in the matter of the psyche,
  
10:32 in the matter of spiritual business.
 
10:35 And, when there is authority, that
destroys all endeavour to find truth,
  
10:45 which is the ultimate enlightenment.
 
10:53 And freedom from this,
from our angers, brutalities,
  
11:00 from our vanities, arrogance,
 
11:04 from all the things
that we are caught up in
  
11:09 freedom from that, is meditation.
 
11:19 And all these talks, here,
 
11:22 have been to lay the foundation
for this meditation.
  
11:36 The foundation, if laid by thought,
is still limited.
  
11:44 Right?
 
11:47 I hope we see this point, together.
 
11:52 Please, some of you may have
come here for the first time,
  
11:58 and so it is necessary to explain
that we are exploring,
  
12:09 investigating into the whole
structure of our consciousness,
  
12:17 of what you actually are,
not what you want to be,
  
12:22 or what you should be,
or your ideologies,
  
12:27 which are all the projections
of thought and therefore limited,
  
12:31 but actually, in your daily life,
to see what you are.
  
12:41 And the very perception of it is
the beginning of the transformation.
  
12:48 And also, we explained
the other day in this talk,
  
12:55 that change and transformation
are two different things.
  
13:00 Change is a modified continuity.
Right?
  
13:09 You understand?
 
13:12 I am this and I want to be that.
 
13:19 That is projected by thought because
it does not understand ‘what is.’
  
13:29 So, it hopes by having an ideal,
 
13:34 the ‘what should be’
away from ‘what is,’
  
13:39 it hopes to use the ideal
as a means of changing ‘what is.’
  
13:50 The humanity throughout the world
is violent.
  
13:57 That’s a fact.
That is the actual reality.
  
14:04 And thought has said, I don’t know
how to deal with this violence,
  
14:11 but if I have an ideal
called ‘non-violence,’
  
14:18 then perhaps I will move
from this to that.
  
14:25 That is,
a modified continuity of violence,
  
14:31 therefore, it is not non-violence.
 
14:35 Whereas, we are talking about
the transformation of violence,
  
14:41 not into something else,
but complete, the ending of violence,
  
14:48 which is the transformation,
which is mutation.
  
14:52 So, if one understands that
very, very clearly,
  
14:59 not that we change from this to that,
but the ending of violence,
  
15:10 the ending of anger,
the ending of sorrow,
  
15:13 the ending of this
continuous struggle to be,
  
15:19 or to become, psychologically,
something – to end it.
  
15:28 And we also went into the question
of the observer and the observed
  
15:45 the observer who separates himself
from the observed.
  
15:52 Haven’t you noticed all this?
 
15:58 Right, sir?
 
16:07 I must be this… I am this,
I must become that.
  
16:12 So, the observer is making an
effort to become that. Right?
  
16:21 Is the observer different from that
 
16:25 which he is observing,
psychologically?
  
16:30 Or the observer is the observed.
 
16:34 Please,
this must be clearly understood
  
16:38 when we are going into
the question of what is meditation,
  
16:44 because meditation implies
the ending of all strife,
  
16:53 of all conflict inwardly
and, therefore, outwardly.
  
17:03 Actually,
there is no inward or outward,
  
17:07 it is like the sea,
there is the ebb and flow.
  
17:12 So, in the same way,
it is very important
  
17:17 that we understand this question.
 
17:20 Is the observer –
psychologically, we’re talking,
  
17:24 different from the observed?
 
17:30 I observe the tree, or the mountain,
 
17:37 and I am not the tree
– I hope not.
  
17:47 But, when I observe
my anger, my greed,
  
17:53 am I different from my greed?
You understand the question?
  
18:01 Am I different from the fact of anger?
 
18:07 When there is anger,
there is no me or anger,
  
18:12 there is just that state of anger.
Right?
  
18:18 Can we proceed from there?
I hope you are following all this.
  
18:23 If not, I’m afraid
you’ll be wasting your morning,
  
18:29 instead of playing golf
or going for a walk.
  
18:38 If you don’t understand this, perhaps
you would leave and go for a walk.
  
18:47 But, as a human being,
living in this world,
  
18:53 with all the terrible things
that are going on,
  
18:59 it behoves for every human being
in the world
  
19:05 to be concerned with this problem,
 
19:11 to bring about
a different way of living.
  
19:16 Not the terrible, meaningless
existence that we do lead.
  
19:25 So, we are asking, is the observer
 
19:31 different from that
which he observes, psychologically,
  
19:36 that is, inwardly,
under the skin, as it were.
  
19:41 That is, I am angry,
I am greedy, I am violent.
  
19:53 Is that ‘I’ different
from the thing observed,
  
20:00 which is anger, jealousy, greed?
You’re following this?
  
20:04 Am I different?
Obviously I’m not. Right?
  
20:11 When I’m angry there is no,
‘I am angry,’ there is only anger.
  
20:18 So, anger is me.
So, the observer is the observed.
  
20:30 So you eliminate the division
altogether.
  
20:37 You’re following this point?
 
20:39 Wherever there is division,
there must be conflict
  
20:44 – between the nations,
between communities,
  
20:48 between the Episcopalians
and God knows what else.
  
20:54 So, wherever there is division,
there must be struggle,
  
20:58 there must be conflict –
between a man and a woman
  
21:04 when they are pursuing
their different ways,
  
21:08 their personal… etc., – division.
 
21:12 Where there is division,
man and woman must be in conflict.
  
21:19 So, we are saying, to eliminate
this conflict, psychologically,
  
21:26 it’s very important to understand
 
21:29 whether the observer
is different from the observed.
  
21:35 If he is not,
then the observer is the observed,
  
21:39 and therefore conflict ends.
 
21:43 I’ll explain,
go into this, a little more.
  
21:48 I hope you are working
with the speaker,
  
21:52 that you’re not merely listening to
a series of words, ideas, conclusions,
  
22:00 but rather using the speaker,
the words, as a mirror
  
22:06 in which you are seeing
actually yourself.
  
22:13 So, that you are aware of yourself,
 
22:18 because we’re talking
about human being, which is you.
  
22:26 That human being is the story
of the totality of mankind.
  
22:34 And when you investigate that,
when you look at it,
  
22:41 you see the conflict has always
existed between man and woman,
  
22:48 between… in himself.
 
22:51 So, part of this meditation is
to eliminate, totally, all conflict,
  
23:03 inwardly,
and therefore outwardly.
  
23:10 And, to eliminate this conflict,
 
23:12 one has to understand
this basic principle, which is
  
23:16 the observer is not different
from the observed, psychologically.
  
23:23 Are we meeting each other? Yes?
 
23:29 Do you see the fact,
not the acceptance of what I’m saying?
  
23:38 Look, when there is anger,
there is no ‘I,’
  
23:51 but a second later
the thought creates the ‘I’
  
23:56 and says, ‘I have been angry,’
 
24:02 and there is the idea
that I should not be angry.
  
24:06 So, there is ‘me’ who have been angry,
and I should not be angry,
  
24:13 so the division brings conflict.
I hope you understand this.
  
24:21 Please.
 
24:26 I hope you understand this
because we are going to something
  
24:35 which demands that you pay
complete attention to this,
  
24:43 which is the essence of meditation,
 
24:49 and to eliminate totally, completely,
every form of conflict,
  
24:58 otherwise,
there is no peace in the world.
  
25:01 You may have peace in heaven,
 
25:06 but actually to live in this world
with complete inward peace,
  
25:13 therefore, every action
is born out of that peace.
  
25:21 So, it’s very important to understand
that the observer is the observed.
  
25:29 When that takes place
– please listen –
  
25:36 that is, one is jealous
– of which you all know –
  
25:46 one is jealous,
 
25:49 is jealousy different
from the observer?
  
25:54 You understand my question?
 
25:58 Or the observer is the observed,
therefore, he is jealous.
  
26:04 There is not ‘I am jealous,’
but there is only jealousy.
  
26:10 Right?
 
26:15 Then what takes place? You understand?
 
26:18 Before, there was division
between me and jealousy,
  
26:24 and then I tried to conquer it,
I tried to suppress it,
  
26:27 rationalise it, put away from,
 
26:31 but now when I see the ‘me’ is jealous
– right? –
  
26:41 then what takes place?
 
26:45 Before, I tried to conquer it,
suppress it, understand it,
  
26:49 rationalise it, or say,
‘Yes, why shouldn’t I be jealous?’
  
26:54 And, therefore, in all that process,
there is conflict.
  
26:59 Whereas, we are saying,
when there is no division
  
27:08 between the observer
and the observed
  
27:10 and, therefore, only the thing
that is, which is jealousy,
  
27:15 then what takes place?
Does jealousy go on?
  
27:21 Or is there a total
ending of jealousy?
  
27:25 You understand my problem,
my question?
  
27:33 I wonder.
 
27:39 When jealousy occurs,
when there is no observer,
  
27:54 you let it blossom and then end.
You understand the question?
  
28:01 Like a flower that blooms,
withers and dies away.
  
28:08 But, as long as you’re fighting it,
 
28:12 as long as you’re resisting it
or rationalising it,
  
28:15 you’re giving life to it.
 
28:19 So, we are saying
that the observer is the observed,
  
28:24 and when there is this jealousy,
let it…
  
28:32 When the observer is the observed
then jealousy blossoms,
  
28:37 grows, and naturally dies.
 
28:41 And, therefore,
there is no conflict in it.
  
28:44 I wonder if you see this.
 
28:48 Right, sir? Please, madame.
 
28:53 So, what then is action?
You understand?
  
29:04 We live by action,
all our life is action
  
29:10 – action according to a motive,
action according to an ideal,
  
29:19 according to a pattern,
or action habitual, traditional,
  
29:27 without any investigation.
 
29:37 So, we’re going to ask ourself,
what is action?
  
29:43 Because a mind that is in meditation
must find this out. What is action?
  
29:50 You are following all this?
 
29:52 I wonder if it interests you,
all this.
  
29:59 Because, please, this is
a very serious matter, all this.
  
30:05 We are here not to spend
a pleasant morning under the trees,
  
30:16 but rather, to investigate
into the things of our life.
  
30:24 One of the major problems in our life
is conflict, in ourselves.
  
30:33 And, from that conflict, all kinds
of neurotic activities go on.
  
30:43 And to end conflict
and therefore end neurotic action
  
30:49 becomes very important –
 
30:52 to have a sane mind,
a mind that’s healthy,
  
31:01 a mind that’s not neurotic,
caught in beliefs and fears and so on.
  
31:09 So, we’re saying,
we’re investigating conflict
  
31:16 and the ending of conflict.
 
31:19 And, also, we’re asking now, what is
action, because we live by action.
  
31:26 When you go to the factory,
when you go to your office,
  
31:30 when you talk, when you walk,
everything is action.
  
31:36 Life is action.
 
31:39 So, when you’re asked, what is action,
 
31:48 and how do you act,
according to what principle,
  
31:53 according to what quality
or state of mind from which you act.
  
32:02 Please investigate it, together.
 
32:11 You generally act from memory,
 
32:16 the memory which has set a pattern,
which has become habit, routine,
  
32:25 which is based on remembrance
and that remembrance being pleasant,
  
32:36 and act according to that,
which is pleasant. Right?
  
32:41 Or act on reward or punishment.
 
32:47 Right? You are following all this?
 
32:51 Reward and punishment.
 
32:54 Or you act,
according to an idea, an ideal.
  
32:59 Having an ideal you say, ‘I will
carry that ideal out in daily life.’
  
33:08 Or you have a certain ambition
and try to fulfil that ambition.
  
33:19 So, there are these
various types of action.
  
33:24 So, each of these actions
are incomplete, fragmented.
  
33:34 Each action is not whole, holistic.
 
33:40 You understand this?
 
33:43 If I go to the office every morning,
for the next fifty years,
  
33:51 I’m a business man
– thank God, I’m not –
  
33:54 but I’m a business man,
or a lawyer, doctor,
  
34:02 some kind of professional careerist.
 
34:07 Therefore, my actions are divided.
Right?
  
34:12 Do you see this? Divided, fragmented.
 
34:16 I’m a business man and I come home
and I love my children,
  
34:20 but when I’m a business man,
there, I don’t love anybody,
  
34:25 I want profit, etc., etc.
 
34:29 So, my actions are divided,
fragmentary.
  
34:36 So, when there is
a fragmentary action,
  
34:41 it must inevitably bring conflict,
psychologically.
  
34:48 So, we’re asking, is there an action
– please listen to this –
  
34:53 is there an action
which has no conflict?
  
35:00 You understand my question?
 
35:04 So, we’re going to find out, together,
 
35:09 we’re going to investigate
into this question
  
35:13 whether there is an action
in which there are no regrets,
  
35:23 no failures, no sense of frustration,
 
35:27 and therefore an action which is
whole, harmonious, complete, holistic.
  
35:37 But, first, we must see very clearly
 
35:41 that our actions are fragmentary
in our life.
  
35:49 I may be a scholar, a painter,
but my life,
  
35:58 though I’m an excellent sculptor,
my life is shoddy
  
36:03 – I’m ambitious, greedy,
wanting money, position,
  
36:07 recognition, fame.
So, there is contradiction.
  
36:13 And, hence,
where there is contradiction,
  
36:16 there must be conflict.
And that’s the way you live.
  
36:23 I may be a priest but I am burning
inside to become a bishop.
  
36:32 It’s this pattern,
goes right through the world.
  
36:38 And where there is division in action,
 
36:41 there must inevitably be conflict
– that’s law.
  
36:56 Please pay attention.
Let her… I know, we know this, lady.
  
37:00 Please.
 
37:04 See how difficult it is
to concentrate?
  
37:10 So, we’re trying to find out
if there is an action
  
37:17 which is whole
and never contradictory,
  
37:22 therefore, an action
that does not bring about tension,
  
37:30 division and all the rest.
 
37:36 So, we must find out what is action.
Right?
  
37:42 Not action in a particular field,
contrary to another part of the field.
  
37:53 Therefore, one has to see
what one is actually doing,
  
38:00 how one actually is living,
living a contradictory life,
  
38:08 contradictory action
and, therefore, conflict.
  
38:12 You must see that.
You must become aware of it.
  
38:21 Are you aware of this fact,
that you, as a human being,
  
38:29 live actively, and each action
contradicts other actions.
  
38:40 Are you aware of this fact?
 
38:45 If you are completely aware,
then what takes place?
  
38:53 You understand my question?
 
39:02 Suppose I am…
 
39:06 I live a contradictory – actions,
live in contradictory actions,
  
39:14 and you tell me, ‘Be aware of it.’
Right?
  
39:19 ‘What do you mean
by being aware of it?,’ I ask.
  
39:26 Awareness is not possible
when you choose,
  
39:30 when you say,
‘Well, I like that particular action,
  
39:33 I would like to keep that and please
help me to avoid all other actions
  
39:39 – you follow? – which are
contradictory to what I like.
  
39:44 You follow what I’m saying?
 
39:46 Therefore, that is not awareness,
that is choosing a particular action
  
39:53 which is most satisfactory,
most comforting, most gratifying,
  
39:58 rewarding, and all the rest of it,
 
40:00 and I say,
‘Please let me hold to that
  
40:02 and help me not to have contradictory
actions with regard to that.’
  
40:08 That is not awareness. You understand?
 
40:11 Where there is choice in awareness,
 
40:14 there is no complete,
total, holistic awareness.
  
40:23 So, I’m asking you,
are you aware of this fact
  
40:27 that your whole life
is lived in contradiction
  
40:31 with contradictory actions?
 
40:37 Without any choice,
just to be aware what actually is.
  
40:47 Then, if you are actually aware of it,
there is no problem, is there?
  
40:55 I wonder if you see this.
 
40:58 We’ll go into it a little later.
So, I’m coming back to it.
  
41:05 We are saying that there is an action
which is continuous,
  
41:10 without any break.
 
41:14 Do you see this?
 
41:18 Our actions are broken,
and therefore contradictory, changing,
  
41:23 but we are saying there is an action
which is continuous,
  
41:29 and therefore holistic, whole.
 
41:34 The word ‘whole’ means
to have good health, physically.
  
41:46 It means also to have a mind
that is sane.
  
41:52 Sanity implies not being committed
 
41:57 to any particular form of belief,
dogma, church, nothing
  
42:03 – sane, which is capable
of reason, logic,
  
42:09 and therefore, able to think
clearly, directly, objectively.
  
42:15 That is sanity.
 
42:17 But a neurotic mind
cannot think logically, sanely.
  
42:24 Therefore holistic mind – whole –
 
42:27 the word ‘whole’ means having
a good health, sane mind,
  
42:37 and also the word ‘whole’
means holy, sacred.
  
42:43 All that is implied
when we use the word ‘holy’: whole.
  
42:51 So, we are saying there is an action
which has no break in it,
  
43:02 and therefore, a movement
that is holistic, whole,
  
43:12 and that movement
we’re going to find.
  
43:17 Not, I’m projecting the idea
and then finding it.
  
43:22 You’re following this?
 
43:23 But, in the process of meditation,
we’re going to find that action.
  
43:29 You’ve got what I’m saying?
 
43:35 So, we’re coming to the point:
what is meditation?
  
43:43 Not how to meditate, not how
to sit in a particular posture,
  
43:47 breathe in a certain way,
and all that,
  
43:50 to me all that is nonsense.
 
43:55 Because you can only meditate,
 
44:02 the depth of meditation
and understand it fully,
  
44:06 when there is no search
or desire for power,
  
44:13 when there is no storing up of hurts,
when there is no fear,
  
44:23 when you have understood
the meaning of pleasure,
  
44:28 in which there is joy and enjoyment
 
44:30 we went into that,
I won’t go into it now.
  
44:33 And, when there is the ending
of sorrow, this must be,
  
44:38 and love and compassion and all that.
 
44:40 Therefore,
this is the basis of foundation,
  
44:43 otherwise,
you’re caught in an illusion.
  
44:52 So, we’re asking, what is meditation?
 
44:57 And why should we meditate?
 
45:05 First of all, the Asiatics,
including India,
  
45:15 have brought to this country
their idea of what meditation is.
  
45:24 Right? Their system of meditation,
their concept of meditation,
  
45:31 the conclusion of their meditation,
which is traditional.
  
45:38 You are following all this?
 
45:43 You have in this country,
and also brought from India,
  
45:48 the thing called
transcendental meditation.
  
45:53 The word ‘transcendental’ is misused.
 
46:01 They give you a mantra. Right?
 
46:06 You know about it, don’t you,
some of you at least.
  
46:09 Questioner: Yes.
K: Yes. You know what the word,
  
46:14 that Sanskrit word ‘mantra’
means something entirely different
  
46:19 from what you have been told
– the root meaning of that word.
  
46:28 It means, ‘man’ means reflect
 
46:33 – please, listen,
for God’s sake, listen –
  
46:38 reflect, on not becoming or being.
 
46:44 Reflect on it. Look at it, observe it,
see what is implied in it.
  
46:51 Therefore, reflect on
not becoming or not being.
  
46:58 ‘Tra’ means put away or destroy
all self-centred activity.
  
47:09 You understand?
 
47:10 So, mantra means
reflect on not becoming,
  
47:17 and dispel all movement
born from the centre as the ‘me.’
  
47:29 That is the meaning of that word.
 
47:32 And you have made it
into something extraordinarily…
  
47:36 meaningless thing.
 
47:38 Which is, you repeat a word
or a series of words,
  
47:43 given by another for 150 dollars
or 20 dollars or some absurd money,
  
47:49 and then you repeat it three times
a day, for 20 minutes or 5 minutes,
  
47:54 and have a good siesta.
 
47:59 You know what a siesta is, don’t you?
 
48:03 And you think you are meditating.
 
48:09 So, we’re asking, what is meditation?
 
48:12 That certainly is not meditation,
 
48:15 because I can have
a 20 minutes siesta,
  
48:18 I wake up,
go to my office and – follow? –
  
48:23 carry on the most mischievous life,
or in my family.
  
48:29 Just a minute, don’t…
I am not arguing.
  
48:31 Q: But that’s misstating the fact.
 
48:34 K: No, sir, I know a little bit
about it. I’m not misstating the fact.
  
48:38 Q: Sir, I’m a teacher of meditation.
I know you are misstating facts.
  
48:42 K: He’s a teacher of meditation
and… You see?
  
48:47 You have already stated
something totally wrong.
  
48:51 You cannot be a teacher of meditation.
 
48:56 Please, sir, forgive me.
No, I am talking.
  
48:59 Q: I must make one statement.
 
49:01 Meditation begins
when the mantra ends.
  
49:04 I agree with Krishnamurti:
mantra is not meditation.
  
49:08 Only when it ends, it begins.
 
49:09 K: Yes, sir. He is saying,
when the word or series of words,
  
49:16 meditation then begins.
Q: When they end.
  
49:19 K: When the mantra ends –
I know this, sir,
  
49:23 please, forgive me.
I know this, very well.
  
49:27 The sound, the ending of the sound,
 
49:31 then the listening of that sound
without the word, and so on.
  
49:35 It’s much more complex than it is…
than it’s generally understood
  
49:40 – I won’t go into that.
 
49:43 So, we are trying to find out
what is meditation.
  
49:51 Not according to any guru,
not according to any system,
  
50:00 because freedom from all authority
is one of the factors of meditation.
  
50:11 Therefore,
there is no teacher of meditation.
  
50:19 And to find out what is meditation,
 
50:26 what is the first thing
that is necessary, to find out?
  
50:33 All previous knowledge
of what meditation is,
  
50:39 blocks the exploration
of what is meditation.
  
50:44 You’ve understood?
 
50:48 If I have heard somebody tell me
what is meditation,
  
50:53 and I accept that or deny it,
but it has left a mark on me,
  
50:59 and with that memory I investigate,
then it’s blocked.
  
51:06 So, we are investigating
into what is meditation
  
51:10 without any previous knowledge.
 
51:14 Right? You are following all this?
 
51:21 So, there must be freedom
from the past, which is time.
  
51:29 You understood this?
 
51:33 So, we’ll have to investigate
what is time.
  
51:40 Time, by the watch
and time, psychologically.
  
51:46 That is, I will be something
or I will become something.
  
51:54 That requires time, doesn’t it?
 
51:58 Physically to go from here to there,
requires time, that’s obvious.
  
52:06 But, we’re asking,
is there psychological time, at all?
  
52:13 You are following this?
 
52:15 That is, is there the movement
of becoming, or being,
  
52:22 or moving from this to that?
 
52:28 Which is psychological time.
 
52:30 We are questioning
that psychological time.
  
52:36 We are accustomed
or educated to this idea
  
52:41 that you must change from what you are
into something, what should be.
  
52:49 That is the traditional
acceptance of this.
  
52:55 We are saying that movement is time,
 
53:00 and that movement has no meaning
because you’re not changing ‘what is,’
  
53:06 you’re changing ‘what is,’ modified.
Right?
  
53:12 Change implies modification.
 
53:15 Transformation implies
the ending of ‘what is.’
  
53:20 You’ve understood? The ending of
anger, not how to become not angry.
  
53:29 I hope you have understood this.
 
53:32 So, in the investigation
into what is meditation,
  
53:38 freedom is absolutely necessary
 
53:42 – freedom from authority,
psychologically –
  
53:49 of course, I have to accept
the authority of the policeman
  
53:52 or the doctor, etc., that’s irrelevant
– from all authority.
  
53:57 There is no teacher that’s going
to teach you what meditation is.
  
54:07 When there is that freedom
you can proceed.
  
54:12 What is necessary in the investigation
 
54:17 of what is meditation, first?
 
54:23 Is it concentration,
 
54:29 or is it attention,
or is it awareness?
  
54:35 You are following?
There are three things:
  
54:38 concentration, awareness
and attention. Right?
  
54:47 In daily life, sir,
look at it, in daily life.
  
54:55 When you concentrate,
what takes place, actually?
  
55:02 Your whole energy is focused
on a particular point,
  
55:10 or on a particular page – right? –
when you concentrate.
  
55:17 Which is to put aside
all interfering thoughts – right? –
  
55:24 therefore, resist all other thoughts.
 
55:30 You follow this? Right?
 
55:33 Even you must agree, sir. Right?
 
55:39 So, what happens then?
 
55:43 That is, you’re resisting,
in concentration. Right?
  
55:50 But, we are saying
something totally different,
  
55:54 which is,
be aware of your thought – aware –
  
56:04 don’t choose in that awareness
which thought you would like
  
56:07 – just be aware of it.
 
56:11 And, from that awareness,
comes attention.
  
56:19 Attention implies that there is no
centre from which you are attending.
  
56:28 This is really important to understand
 
56:32 because this is the essence
of meditation.
  
56:39 In concentration there is a centre
– right? –
  
56:43 from which you are concentrating,
 
56:47 on a picture or an idea
or on some image, etc.
  
56:52 You understand?
 
56:53 From a centre, you are exercising
energy in concentration.
  
56:59 That means resisting, building a wall,
 
57:04 so that no other thought comes in.
 
57:10 Therefore, there is conflict
– right? – there’s conflict.
  
57:16 When you resist anything,
there must be conflict.
  
57:20 When you say, ‘I must think about that
 
57:22 and I must not think
about other things,’
  
57:25 your mind, your brain, your thought is
wandering all over the place. Right?
  
57:32 So, you try to pull it back
 
57:34 and, therefore, there’s conflict,
constant conflict.
  
57:37 To totally eliminate that,
become aware of your thought.
  
57:49 Say, for instance,
I want to think about – what? –
  
57:57 think about my suffering,
I want to think about it.
  
58:03 In thinking about it,
 
58:07 I’m distracted by the noise
that is going on out there,
  
58:12 or by a thought that comes in
that I must see somebody, tomorrow.
  
58:17 So, there is always
a distraction going on. Right?
  
58:23 Now, become totally aware
of this movement of distraction.
  
58:31 I’m thinking about suffering, and
then I think about cleaning my shoes.
  
58:40 Then leave suffering
and look at your thought
  
58:47 which wants to clean your shoes.
So, there is no conflict.
  
58:50 You understand what I’m saying?
You understand?
  
58:56 So, pursue each thought and,
therefore, there is no contradiction,
  
59:04 no resistance about any thought.
You’ve understood this?
  
59:13 So, then from that arises
awareness, to be aware.
  
59:20 You are aware then of all
the movement of your thought.
  
59:24 You’ve got it?
 
59:27 Then, out of that awareness,
comes attention.
  
59:33 Now, when you are attending
to something really deeply,
  
59:38 there is no centre, is there?
Have you watched?
  
59:42 Now, wait a minute.
 
59:43 If you are listening, very
attentively, to what is being said,
  
59:49 now, actually now, when you are
attending with all your nerves, ears,
  
59:57 giving all your energy to attending,
 
1:00:01 is there a ‘me’? Is there?
 
1:00:08 Obviously, not. You understand?
 
1:00:13 So, in attention there is no centre
from which you are attending.
  
1:00:20 Whereas, in concentration,
there is a centre.
  
1:00:24 You get it? Well, it’s up to you.
 
1:00:31 Then, in that attention,
if you have gone that far,
  
1:00:37 which is,
that you have laid the foundation,
  
1:00:40 that you are free
from all the business of thought,
  
1:00:45 all the travails of thought
– fear, agony, despair –
  
1:00:50 that’s the foundation.
 
1:00:51 That is,
the content of your consciousness,
  
1:00:54 which is put there by thought,
now is being emptied.
  
1:01:01 You understand? Is being freed.
 
1:01:07 So, meditation is the emptying
of the content of consciousness,
  
1:01:16 which is consciousness.
You’re getting this?
  
1:01:22 That is the meaning
and the depth of meditation:
  
1:01:26 the emptying of all the content,
which means putting
  
1:01:32 – please listen –
thought coming to an end.
  
1:01:40 Thought is necessary
when I function technologically,
  
1:01:47 in the office and so on,
 
1:01:50 but every other form of registration
comes to an end.
  
1:01:59 You understand what I’m saying?
 
1:02:01 No, please listen –
I’ll tell you something.
  
1:02:11 You know, our brain is registering
almost everything
  
1:02:17 – the noise,
the words which we are using,
  
1:02:23 like a tape, it is registering.
 
1:02:30 Now, is it possible not to register,
 
1:02:35 but only register
what is absolutely necessary?
  
1:02:39 You understand my question?
 
1:02:43 I wonder if you understand.
 
1:02:47 Why should I register your insult?
Why?
  
1:02:54 Why should I register your flattery?
It’s unnecessary.
  
1:03:03 Why should I register the hurts?
– unnecessary. You understand?
  
1:03:09 Therefore, register only that
which is necessary
  
1:03:16 to operate in daily life,
as a technician, a writer and so on,
  
1:03:23 but, psychologically,
don’t register anything else.
  
1:03:29 Are you capturing this?
 
1:03:34 So, the registration is
the movement of thought,
  
1:03:39 which is anger, jealousy,
hatred, all that.
  
1:03:48 So, consciousness then
has lost its content,
  
1:03:56 therefore, it is totally
a different state of mind.
  
1:04:05 Which is –
 
1:04:12 I do not know
how far you can go into this.
  
1:04:18 I will go – follow it if you can,
if you cannot it doesn’t matter,
  
1:04:25 because this is the way of living,
 
1:04:31 not the way that we carry on
day after day
  
1:04:35 with all kinds of confusion,
uncertainty.
  
1:04:38 We are pointing out
a totally different way of living,
  
1:04:44 which is the emptying
of consciousness of its content,
  
1:04:47 which is fear, and so on
 
1:04:52 – all that thing which
we have been talking, endlessly
  
1:04:55 for the last five talks.
 
1:04:59 Now, we’ve come to a point
when we say,
  
1:05:03 meditation is the attention
in which there is no registration,
  
1:05:13 psychologically, no registration
except the fact, of language,
  
1:05:22 going to the office, working in
a factory and so on – nothing else.
  
1:05:28 Then, out of that,
comes complete silence,
  
1:05:34 because thought has come to an end.
 
1:05:37 It functions only
where it is absolutely necessary.
  
1:05:42 So, time has come to an end.
You understand?
  
1:05:48 Time means movement.
 
1:05:54 Therefore, when time stops,
 
1:06:00 then there is a totally different
kind of movement, in silence.
  
1:06:08 Sorry,
you won’t understand all this.
  
1:06:12 And religion then becomes
a totally different thing.
  
1:06:21 Religion then has a totally
different meaning.
  
1:06:24 Now, let’s look at that.
 
1:06:26 Religion as it is now –
 
1:06:32 please, if I use strong words,
look at it,
  
1:06:35 don’t say, you are prejudiced
or you’re conditioned or anything,
  
1:06:39 just look at it.
 
1:06:42 Religion now is a matter of thought.
Right?
  
1:06:49 Thought has made
the various Hindu religions,
  
1:06:54 the Christian religions, with all
their contents, their superstitions,
  
1:06:59 with their symbols,
with their, you know, figures
  
1:07:03 – everything is put together
by thought,
  
1:07:07 and, therefore,
each religion is fragmented.
  
1:07:14 You are a Christian,
somebody else is a Muslim,
  
1:07:16 somebody else is a Hindu, and so on.
 
1:07:19 And, in those divisions,
there are subdivisions,
  
1:07:22 multiple divisions,
all the result of thought.
  
1:07:26 This is what you call religion
 
1:07:31 – going to the Mass, rituals,
the incense, the symbols,
  
1:07:40 all that is called religion –
the beliefs, the hopes, the fears,
  
1:07:45 and the desire to be secure
in another world,
  
1:07:49 or find security in a belief,
and so on –
  
1:07:54 all that is called religion. Right?
 
1:07:59 We are saying that is not religion.
 
1:08:03 That is merely the movement
of thought in fear,
  
1:08:10 in hope, in trying to find security.
 
1:08:16 Thought being a material process,
material process
  
1:08:24 – when we use the word ‘material,’
it means memory,
  
1:08:30 experience, knowledge, is stored up
in the brain, in the very cells,
  
1:08:35 therefore, it is matter.
 
1:08:38 So, thought is a material process,
 
1:08:40 and anything that thought has created,
put together,
  
1:08:44 is fragmentary,
and therefore not religious.
  
1:08:51 So, we’re finding out then
what is religion,
  
1:08:54 if all this is not religious?
 
1:08:59 Which no bishop, no devout Christian,
 
1:09:02 no devout superstitious Hindu
or superstitious… will accept this.
  
1:09:07 But it doesn’t matter,
these are facts.
  
1:09:11 Then what is religion?
 
1:09:16 If it is none of these things,
then what is it?
  
1:09:21 It is the investigation
with all your attention,
  
1:09:25 which means with all your energy,
 
1:09:27 the summation of all your energy
to find out that which is sacred,
  
1:09:35 to come upon that which is holy,
which thought has not put together.
  
1:09:48 And that can only take place
when there is freedom from noise,
  
1:09:54 that is, the noise of thought.
 
1:09:58 That means the ending
of thought and time,
  
1:10:04 psychologically, inwardly.
 
1:10:07 But, not the ending
of knowledge in the world
  
1:10:14 where you have to function
with knowledge.
  
1:10:18 So that which is holy,
that which is sacred, which is truth,
  
1:10:25 can only be
when there is complete silence,
  
1:10:31 when the brain itself
has understood the necessity,
  
1:10:39 or put thought in its right place.
 
1:10:45 Then, out of that immense silence,
 
1:10:51 then there is that which is sacred.
 
1:10:55 Silence demands space,
 
1:11:02 space in the whole
structure of consciousness.
  
1:11:09 There is no space in the structure
of our consciousness as it is,
  
1:11:16 because it’s crowded with fears
– you follow? –
  
1:11:19 crowded, chattering, chattering.
 
1:11:24 And, therefore, there is no space.
 
1:11:25 When there is silence,
there is immense, timeless space.
  
1:11:31 Then, only, there is the possibility
 
1:11:34 of coming upon that
which is the eternal, the sacred.