Krishnamurti_EN

Krishnamurti Subtitles

Creation is never ending

Ojai - 18 May 1985

Public Talk 3

0:25	Krishnamurti:
	It is a beautiful morning, isn't it?

0:35	And I hope you are
	enjoying yourself.

0:47	We have only
	this morning's conversation

0:51	between you and the speaker,

0:55	and also tomorrow morning.

1:02	We have to go into various subjects
	or various problems.

1:12	We are going to talk over
	together

1:15	the whole question of pleasure,

1:20	sorrow, death,

1:25	and what is it that human beings

1:29	throughout the world have sought,

1:33	beyond the physical daily
	troublesome, boring, lonely life,

1:41	what is there beyond,

1:45	not only for the individual,

1:48	but the whole of humanity.

1:54	What is there that is not touched
	by thought,

2:02	that has no name,

2:06	that may be eternal,
	that is lasting, enduring?

2:11	So we are going to talk over
	all these matters,

2:15	including meditation,

2:19	perhaps yoga too.

2:22	Everybody seems to be
	terribly interested in yoga.

2:27	They want to keep young
	and beautiful.

2:38	Shall we begin with that?

2:44	I thought you would be
	interested in it.

2:52	Yoga has now become
	a business affair

2:56	like everything else.

3:01	There are teachers of yoga
	all over the world,

3:10	and they are coining money,
	as usual.

3:15	And yoga at one time,

3:21	I have been told by those
	who know a great deal about this,

3:27	it was only taught
	to the very, very, very few.

3:33	Yoga doesn't mean merely
	to keep your body healthy,

3:39	normal, active, intelligent.

3:44	But also it meant,

3:47	the meaning of that word
	in Sanskrit

3:50	means 'join together'.

3:54	Joining the higher
	and the lower.

3:59	I don't know who joins it,
	but that is the tradition.

4:07	And also,

4:09	there are various forms of yoga.

4:16	But the highest form
	is called raja yoga,

4:20	which is the king of yogas.

4:24	There, that system,

4:28	or that way of living

4:33	was concerned not merely
	with the physical wellbeing,

4:41	but also much more strict
	psychologically.

4:49	There was no discipline,

4:52	no system,

4:54	nothing to be repeated
	day after day.

5:02	But to have a brain
	that is in order,

5:09	that is all the time active
	but not chattering,

5:16	but active,

5:19	that activity

5:21	– the speaker is interpreting
	all this.

5:24	Probably they wouldn't
	tell you all this.

5:28	The speaker has talked to
	various scholars and pundits

5:32	and real yoga teachers.

5:36	There are very few of them now.

5:39	So to have a very deeply,
	orderly, moral, ethical life,

5:47	not just merely
	take various postures

5:52	but to lead a very moral,
	ethical, disciplined life,

6:01	that was the real meaning
	of the highest form of yoga.

6:08	Thereby you kept
	the body healthy.

6:12	The body was not first,
	of primary importance.

6:17	What was of primary importance
	was to have a brain, a mind,

6:23	a wellbeing that is clear,
	active

6:30	– not in the sense of movement,

6:33	but in itself active, alive,

6:37	full of vitality.

6:41	But now it has become
	rather shallow,

6:46	profitable and
	becoming mediocre.

6:55	The speaker was taught

6:59	– oh, many years ago –

7:01	something that could not
	be taught to another.

7:05	Let's leave it at that,
	shall we?

7:08	Is that enough talk about yoga?

7:11	Questioner:
	Could you go into it more?

7:12	K: Or you want me to tell you
	what I was taught?

7:20	I am sorry, I can't tell you.

7:24	It is not to be taught
	to the casual.

7:31	It is something that you do,

7:35	perhaps every day
	as the speaker does for an hour,

7:43	to have perfect control
	of your body.

7:47	So that you are watchful
	– I won't use the word 'control,'

7:50	but to watch your body,
	not make any movement,

7:55	any gesture,
	which is not observed.

8:02	There is no unnecessary
	movement of the body.

8:08	But it is not controlled.

8:11	That is where the difference is.

8:13	May we drop that subject
	and go on to something else?

8:19	I know you are reluctant,

8:24	because you think,

8:26	perhaps you may consider yoga
	to be something

8:31	to be practised day after day

8:34	to develop your muscles,

8:38	have a muscular body.

8:41	It is not that at all.

8:46	It is something
	you live all day long.

8:52	Something you watch,

8:56	observe,

8:59	be clear about.

9:04	We were talking about,
	the other Saturday and Sunday,

9:12	the question of guilt,

9:18	being psychologically hurt,
	wounded,

9:24	and the various forms
	of relationship.

9:29	Not only with human beings,
	with each other,

9:34	but also our relationship
	to nature,

9:40	to all the beauty of the world,

9:44	to the mountains, to the meadows,
	to the groves,

9:51	and the hills and the shadows,

9:56	the lakes and the rivers.

9:59	To have a relationship.

10:06	We talked a little bit about
	that relationship too.

10:15	Where there is an image
	made by thought

10:20	between you and the mountain,

10:22	all the fields and the flowers,

10:28	as one makes an image about
	one's wife or husband and so on,

10:36	that image prevents one from having
	complete relationship with another.

10:47	And our relationship
	with each other now,

10:52	between you and the speaker,

10:56	that relationship is very important
	to understand.

11:02	He is not persuading you
	to any point of view.

11:11	He is not putting
	any kind of pressure

11:17	so that you listen,
	accept or deny.

11:23	He has no authority.

11:26	He is not a guru.

11:29	He has an abomination of all this
	idea of leadership psychologically

11:36	or spiritually,
	if I can use that word.

11:40	It is an abhorrence to him.

11:44	And he really means it.

11:47	It is not something
	to be taken lightly,

11:52	that the speaker pretends.

11:58	that is why one has to be
	extremely honest in all this.

12:07	And we talked about
	the activity of time.

12:18	We went into it fairly clearly.

12:23	And also
	the movement of thought,

12:27	what is thinking.

12:30	We talked about that too.

12:34	Do you want the speaker
	to repeat it again?

12:38	Please tell me.

12:40	If it is not clear,

12:42	the speaker has got
	a great deal of patience about it.

12:50	Perhaps I won't even
	use the word 'patience'.

12:55	So we talked about all that,

12:59	had a conversation
	between you and the speaker.

13:05	Therefore that conversation
	is carried on mutually.

13:11	It isn't one sided conversation.

13:17	And also,

13:20	we said the world
	is made up of bullies

13:26	– the religious bullies,

13:30	the newspapers,
	the politician,

13:35	the guru, the priests,

13:39	the bullies in the family.

13:44	And those bullies
	make us feel guilty,

13:49	they attack first and
	then you have to defend.

13:52	That is the game
	that has been going on

13:56	in our relationship
	with each other and so on.

14:01	So that brings about
	this feeling of guilt.

14:06	We talked a great deal
	about that.

14:10	And also we talked
	last Sunday about fear.

14:18	Why human beings
	who have evolved

14:23	through these many, many,
	many millennia,

14:28	live with this terrible burden
	called fear.

14:36	That fear is a sensation.

14:40	And sensation takes many forms,

14:45	the sensation of drugs,
	alcohol and so on,

14:51	the sensation of sexuality,

14:55	the sensation of achieving
	something,

15:01	climbing the ladders,

15:02	either the mundane ladder

15:07	or the so-called spiritual ladder.

15:13	We talked also,

15:17	what is the relationship
	between time and thought.

15:23	Or are they one?

15:28	And we went into that,
	and also

15:34	what is the root of fear?

15:39	And we have many, many fears,

15:43	which destroy
	not only the human capacity,

15:49	distort the brain,

15:54	distort or curtail or limit

15:59	both biological and
	psychological activity.

16:05	What is the root of it,
	root of fear?

16:09	We went into it.

16:11	We said the root of fear
	is time and thought.

16:20	One can listen to all this

16:23	casually or seriously,

16:28	listen to each other's
	conversation.

16:32	But the words are not the thing.

16:37	Fear is not the word.

16:40	Or the word may create the fear.

16:45	You understand?

16:46	The word may create the fear,

16:50	or there is fear by itself.

16:55	Right?

16:58	The word is the picture,
	is the idea.

17:04	But the fact of fear
	is quite different.

17:10	So one has to be clear
	that the word is not inducing,

17:15	cultivating fear

17:18	and then overcoming that fear,

17:23	which means overcoming the word
	but not the fact.

17:28	You are following all this?

17:32	And we said
	one has to face this fact.

17:37	And how one faces
	this fact is all-important,

17:41	not the fact,
	but how you approach it,

17:44	how you come to it.

17:50	If one has conclusions,

17:54	concepts,

17:57	how to get over fear,

18:00	how to suppress it,

18:02	or how to transcend it,

18:08	or go to somebody who will
	help you to overcome that fear,

18:13	then that fear will continue
	in different forms.

18:18	It may be one day
	you are frightened of something,

18:21	the next day another.

18:24	And out of this fear we have done
	terrible things to mankind.

18:32	We have done terrible things
	to each other.

18:39	Out of this fear
	of wanting security,

18:43	or having security,

18:46	we have destroyed human beings
	by the million.

18:52	The last war and the previous war
	showed it.

19:01	Where there is fear
	there is God,

19:09	and all the comfort
	that one derives out of illusion.

19:17	But when there is psychologically,
	and therefore biologically,

19:22	not the other way around

19:25	– it is not
	physical security first

19:29	and then
	the psychological security after.

19:34	The socialists,
	the communists,

19:38	the radicals,
	so-called radicals,

19:40	have tried to establish order
	outside,

19:47	as the communists are trying to do,
	the totalitarians.

19:53	And they are not succeeding,
	they are only suppressing.

19:59	But if one starts

20:05	to understand
	this whole psychological structure

20:09	of every human being,
	of oneself,

20:14	then one begins to understand
	the nature of fear.

20:20	And it can be ended if we understand
	the nature of time, thought,

20:26	which we went into.

20:32	And we ought to talk over
	together this morning,

20:36	as it is
	such a beautiful morning,

20:39	what is beauty.

20:43	Are you interested in this?

20:46	What is beauty?

20:52	The speaker is putting you
	that question,

20:56	and you must reply.

20:57	Not all of you, that is impossible,
	or even one.

21:01	What would be your reply,

21:05	if one may ask respectfully,

21:09	what is your response
	to that question?

21:13	What is beauty?

21:17	Is it in the mountains?

21:21	In the shadows?

21:25	In the dappled light
	under these trees?

21:32	Is it a sheet of water
	still in the moonlight?

21:37	Or the stars of a clear evening?

21:44	Or the beautiful face,

21:51	well-proportioned,

21:55	having that weight
	and beauty inward?

22:02	Or does it lie in the museums,

22:07	the pictures, the statues?

22:12	There is a marvellous statue
	in the Louvre in Paris.

22:18	The statue of
	the Victory of Samothrace.

22:23	It is a marvellous statue.

22:28	And is that beauty?

22:33	So one should ask this question.

22:37	Not the beauty in a magazine.

22:42	Is that beauty?

22:45	A beautiful woman,
	carefully made up,

22:52	etc., etc.

22:54	Is that beauty?

22:59	So one should ask this question
	of ourselves.

23:05	Because man, woman,
	are seeking this thing all the time.

23:12	that is why museums
	become important

23:16	because in ourselves
	we are so ugly.

23:21	Not sinful,
	that is a wrong word to use.

23:27	We are so broken up,

23:31	fragmented,

23:34	we can never see
	something whole,

23:39	holistic way of living.

23:43	And we think beauty
	is out there,

23:49	in the pictures,
	in a lovely poem of Keats,

23:59	or in marvellously
	written literature.

24:07	So what is beauty?

24:16	Are you waiting
	for the speaker to explain?

24:22	Or have you ever
	asked of yourself?

24:30	Or are you seeking
	for the experts to tell you?

24:39	Can we go into it together?

24:43	Not that the speaker
	wants to convince you,

24:47	show you, tell you anything.

24:54	That is very important
	to understand.

24:59	He is not authority.

25:02	He is not a public figure.

25:08	He hates all that
	ugly reputation,

25:13	success,

25:16	becoming somebody.

25:18	Then you can threaten
	that somebody.

25:22	You understand?

25:27	But it is not like that.
	We are two human beings

25:32	talking over together our
	whole complex problem of existence.

25:43	So what is beauty?

25:47	Is beauty love?

25:56	Is beauty pleasure?

26:00	Is beauty something
	that gives you an élan,

26:07	a sensation?

26:09	You say, how marvellous,
	how beautiful that picture is.

26:17	So what is beauty?

26:22	May we go into it together?

26:27	Together.

26:33	When you see those hills
	behind there

26:39	and the blue sky

26:42	and the line of those mountains
	against the sky,

26:49	and see some of the shadows

26:54	on the sunburned grass

26:59	and the shady trees,
	when you look at it,

27:04	not verbalise it immediately
	but when you look at it,

27:10	or see a great mountain

27:15	full of snow,

27:18	high peaks,

27:24	and a sky that has
	never been polluted

27:31	– when you see this majesty
	of a mountain,

27:36	what takes place?

27:43	Does the majesty
	of that mountain,

27:46	the enormous solidity of it,

27:51	the greatness of it,

27:56	what happens at that second
	when you see that mountain

28:00	and that hill
	and those shadows

28:02	or this dappled light
	under these trees?

28:09	For a second,

28:13	the greatness of the mountain
	drives away all our pettiness,

28:20	all our worries and problems
	and all the travail of life

28:26	– for that second.

28:35	Then you become silent and look.

28:39	Right?

28:43	Take a boy,

28:46	small boy or a girl,

28:50	they have been running about
	all day long,

28:52	shouting, you know,

28:54	being a little bit naughty,

28:57	which is nice.

29:00	But parents
	don't like them to be that way.

29:05	What happens
	to their naughtiness

29:09	when you give them a lovely toy,

29:14	complicated toy?

29:18	Their whole energy
	is concentrated in that toy.

29:25	They are not naughty.

29:28	Until they break that toy.

29:32	Then the whole begins again.

29:35	That is, the toy

29:38	– please listen to this,
	together we are talking –

29:42	that toy absorbs the child.

29:50	The toy becomes all important.

29:54	He loves it, he holds it,
	he kisses – you follow?

29:58	You have seen
	teddy bears worn out.

30:08	And all that naughtiness
	has gone

30:11	because the toy has absorbed
	the naughtiness,

30:16	the toy becomes important.

30:19	Right?

30:21	You know this
	if you are mothers and fathers.

30:26	And the toy is the television,
	unfortunately.

30:35	So, the mountain absorbs us
	for the second.

30:41	that is our toy.

30:44	And we forget ourselves.

30:47	This is actuality.

30:50	If you see a marvellous statue,

30:54	not only Grecian statues,

30:59	but the ancient Egyptian ones.

31:04	Their extraordinary
	sense of earth,

31:08	fullness, richness,

31:12	stability, dignity.

31:19	For a second, for a moment,
	their dignity,

31:25	their immensity
	drives our pettiness away.

31:31	So we are absorbed by the toys.

31:35	The grown-ups too.

31:37	It is maybe their business,

31:42	their chicanery in politics.

31:50	So all these things absorb us.

31:54	And if there is nothing
	to absorb you,

32:01	then you get depressed,

32:04	try to escape from it,

32:07	do all kinds of things
	to run away from what we are.

32:17	So, is not beauty

32:22	something that takes place

32:27	when you are not?

32:33	When you with all your problems,

32:36	with your anxieties, insecurity,

32:39	whether you are loved
	or not loved,

32:44	when you with all the
	psychological complexities are not,

32:51	then that state is beauty.

33:04	And this is one of the problems
	of meditation.

33:08	To cultivate,

33:11	practise,

33:13	day after day,

33:16	to see that you are not.

33:26	And who is the entity
	that is practising?

33:31	You understand?
	It is the same old toy.

33:35	Only you call it meditation.

33:41	So where you or K is not,

33:45	there is beauty.

33:55	As we said,
	beauty is not pleasure,

33:59	it is not sensation.

34:03	So we ought to talk over
	together

34:08	pleasure,

34:13	because for us pleasure is an
	extraordinarily important thing.

34:20	The pleasure of a sunset,

34:23	the pleasure of seeing somebody
	whom you like

34:32	enjoying himself.

34:38	So we ought to talk over together
	the whole concept of pleasure.

34:46	Because that is what we want,
	if you are honest.

34:53	And that is our difficulty,
	we are never

34:55	seriously honest to ourselves.

35:03	But we think to be
	so terribly honest to oneself

35:07	may lead to further trouble,

35:09	not only for yourself
	but your husband, wife, etc.

35:19	So to understand
	the nature of fear,

35:22	guilt, relationship,

35:27	and all the movement
	of our daily life

35:31	one has to look at it
	very closely,

35:35	not control it, shape it,

35:37	and say this must go that way
	or that way.

35:40	But to look at it first,

35:43	without fear,

35:47	without being depressed

35:52	or feeling that you must
	do something about it.

35:59	So we are going to together
	enquire what is pleasure.

36:07	To possess a beautiful car.

36:14	Or have lovely
	12th century furniture

36:20	– to polish it, to look at it,

36:24	to evaluate.

36:28	There is a furniture in England,
	in a particular room,

36:34	it is about 16th, 15th century.

36:40	And one has paid
	a great deal of money for it.

36:44	And it gives you great pleasure
	watching it.

36:48	Then you identify yourself
	with that furniture.

36:52	Then you become the furniture,

36:57	because whatever you identify
	yourself with, you are that.

37:03	It may be an image,
	it may be a piece of furniture,

37:07	it may be a man, woman,

37:09	or it may be some idea,

37:13	some conclusion, some ideology.

37:17	And all the identification
	with something greater

37:22	or something
	which is convenient,

37:26	satisfying,

37:28	doesn't give you
	too much discomfort,

37:32	that brings us
	a great deal of pleasure.

37:38	And pleasure goes with fear.

37:42	I don't know
	if you have watched it.

37:45	It is the other side
	of the coin.

37:49	But we don't want to look
	at the other side.

37:56	But we say to ourselves

37:58	pleasure is the most
	important thing,

38:00	either through drugs,

38:03	which is now becoming
	more and more in this country

38:09	– opium, cocaine, alcohol.

38:13	You know all that,
	what is happening in the world,

38:16	especially in this country,

38:20	which breeds
	certain irresponsibility,

38:26	gives you for the moment
	certain élan, energy,

38:31	quietens the brain probably
	and dulls the brain,

38:35	and ultimately
	destroys human beings.

38:39	You have seen all this
	on television.

38:42	If you haven't seen all this,
	you know somebody,

38:47	and so on.

38:49	We start with pleasure,
	and end up in ruination.

39:01	And pleasure of possessing
	something,

39:06	the woman or the man,

39:10	pleasure of power

39:14	over somebody.

39:16	It may be, if you have
	domestic help, over that person,

39:22	or your wife or husband
	or something or other

39:26	– we want power.

39:29	Right?

39:30	Let's be quite honest
	about all this.

39:35	We admire power,

39:39	we extol power,

39:44	we idolise power.

39:48	Whether it is spiritual power

39:52	of the religious hierarchy,

39:56	or the power of a politician,

40:01	the power of money.

40:08	To the speaker
	power is evil,

40:17	that is why followers
	who want power

40:23	through knowledge,
	through enlightenment,

40:26	you know all that rot
	they talk about.

40:29	Not that there is not
	enlightenment,

40:32	but the rot, the stupidity,
	nonsense they talk about.

40:37	That gives them power.

40:39	Which is,
	if we may go on with it,

40:44	our education,

40:47	televisions,

40:51	our environment,
	ambience,

40:55	all that is making us mediocre.

41:00	We have read too much
	of what other people say.

41:06	The word 'mediocre' means

41:12	going up the hill halfway
	and never reaching the top.

41:18	Not success

41:20	– success is utter mediocrity.

41:28	Sorry to talk emphatically
	about all these matters.

41:36	If you don't want to listen,
	it is all right too.

41:41	You are not entertaining
	the speaker,

41:44	or he is entertaining you.

41:46	These are all
	terribly serious matters.

41:52	And we give power to others

41:56	because we ourselves lack power,

42:00	position, status,

42:02	therefore we hand it over
	to somebody else.

42:07	And then we worship that,
	adore it, or idolise it.

42:15	And we have lived that way
	for millennia.

42:23	So,

42:26	power,

42:29	identification,

42:34	having security, money,

42:40	and feeling that money
	will give you freedom,

42:43	which is not freedom at all.

42:48	In freedom you can choose
	what you want or what you like,

42:52	is that freedom?

42:56	One does not know if you have
	gone into this question of freedom,

43:00	what does freedom mean?

43:05	Not in heaven.

43:10	Do you remember that joke
	– may I repeat a joke?

43:17	Two men are in heaven

43:21	with wings and halos, all that.

43:24	One says to the other,

43:28	'If I am dead,
	why do I feel so awful?'

43:37	Have you got it?

43:50	So all forms of pleasure
	is part of our life.

43:57	It has become more and more
	sensational,

44:03	more and more

44:06	– it is becoming noisy,

44:09	vulgar,

44:12	mediocre.

44:15	And so we go on
	with our pleasures,

44:23	and in its wake comes fear.

44:28	So unless one understands
	this activity of sensation,

44:36	fear and pleasure will go on.

44:40	What is sensation?

44:43	If one may go into it now.

44:47	The actual meaning of that word
	is 'the activity of the senses'.

44:53	Right?

44:59	Either that activity
	of the senses is partial,

45:04	which it always is,

45:07	or all the senses
	are fully awakened.

45:12	You understand?

45:17	When it is partial,
	it is limited.

45:22	Right?

45:23	You want more and more
	and more and more.

45:33	And 'the more' means

45:37	that the past sensation
	has not been sufficient.

45:42	You want some more of it,

45:45	go to different schools
	of thought,

45:50	go from one sect
	to another.

45:53	You have seen all this
	in this country,

45:57	and elsewhere.

46:03	So, is there a holistic activity
	for all the senses?

46:09	You understand my question?

46:14	I am asking you a question.

46:17	Our sensations are limited.

46:23	And you take drugs, etc.,
	to have higher sensation.

46:29	It is still limited because
	you are asking for more.

46:36	When you ask for 'the more'
	there is always 'the little',

46:42	therefore it is partial.

46:46	Right? Simple.

46:49	So we are asking,

46:51	is there a holistic awareness
	of all the senses,

46:59	therefore there is never asking
	for 'the more'.

47:04	I wonder if you follow all this?

47:07	Are we together in this,
	even partially?

47:17	And where there is this total,

47:23	fully aware of all the senses

47:25	– awareness of it,
	not you are aware of it –

47:28	the awareness of the senses
	in themselves,

47:32	then there is no centre

47:36	in which there is an awareness
	of the wholeness.

47:40	You understand?

47:43	When you look at those hills,

47:48	can you look at it
	not with only visual eyes,

47:52	optic nerves operating,
	but with all the senses,

47:57	with all your energy,
	with all your attention?

48:03	Then there is no 'me' at all.

48:09	Then when there is no me,
	there is no asking for more,

48:13	or trying to become better.

48:20	Then we ought to also
	talk over together,

48:25	what is sorrow.

48:28	You understand?
	All these are related to each other.

48:33	Guilt,

48:35	the psychological wounds,

48:40	which most people have,

48:44	and what the consequences are
	of those psychological wounds,

48:54	the vanity of one's own
	cultivated intelligence,

49:01	which gets hurt,

49:07	and the images
	that one has built about one's self

49:11	– that gets hurt, nothing else.

49:15	We went into all that.

49:17	And we talked about
	relationship.

49:21	We talked about fear, pleasure.

49:25	They are all interrelated,

49:28	they are not something
	to be taken bit by bit

49:34	or separated and say,
	this is my problem,

49:39	and stick to that.

49:42	If you say, I can solve that,
	I don't mind the rest,

49:48	but the rest remains there.

49:55	So can one see
	this whole movement,

49:58	not just one movement?

50:04	So we want to talk about
	sorrow.

50:10	This is an immense subject.

50:18	It brings tears to one's eyes.

50:25	Not the words.

50:28	The word 'sorrow'

50:32	has been in the minds
	of men and women

50:36	from the beginning of time

50:41	– this feeling of sorrow.

50:52	And sorrow has never ended.

51:03	If one travels,

51:05	especially in the Asiatic world
	or in Africa,

51:10	you see immense poverty,

51:14	immense.

51:19	And you shed tears
	or do some social reform,

51:23	or give them food

51:27	or give them clothes, etc.

51:30	But there is still sorrow there.

51:35	And there is the sorrow of someone
	whom you have lost.

51:44	You have their picture
	on the mantelpiece, or the piano,

51:48	or hung on the wall

51:51	and you remember it,

51:56	look at it, shed tears,

52:01	and all the memories
	connected with that picture.

52:07	One sustains, nourishes,
	continues loyally with that picture.

52:18	That picture is not the person.

52:23	That picture is not
	the memories.

52:26	But we cling to those memories,

52:29	and that brings us
	more and more sorrow.

52:37	And the sorrow of those people
	who have very little in their life,

52:44	not only money,

52:48	few sticks of furniture,

52:52	but also

52:56	ignorance.

52:59	Not the ignorance
	of something great,

53:04	but the ignorance
	of their daily life,

53:13	of their having nothing
	inside them

53:19	– not that the rich people
	have either,

53:23	they have it in the bank account,
	but nothing inside.

53:28	Look at all this.

53:30	And there is the immense sorrow
	of mankind which is war.

53:42	Thousands, millions
	have been killed,

53:49	and if you have seen it
	in Europe

53:54	– thousands of crosses
	all in a straight line.

54:04	How many women, men,
	parents have cried,

54:12	not only in this country,

54:16	every community, every country,
	every state.

54:25	Have we realised
	that for the last historical times

54:32	there have been wars every year?

54:38	Tribal wars, national wars,
	ideological wars, religious wars.

54:46	In the Middle Ages
	they tortured people,

54:51	burnt them.

54:53	They were heretics.

54:58	You know all this

55:00	if you have listened,
	if you have looked.

55:08	And from the beginning
	of man or woman

55:12	the sorrow has continued
	in different forms,

55:20	poverty of sorrow,
	poverty of ignorance,

55:24	poverty of not being able
	to fulfil your desires,

55:30	poverty of achievement

55:34	– there is more to be achieved.

55:40	And all this has brought
	immense sorrow,

55:44	not only personal sorrow,

55:52	but also the sorrow
	of humanity.

55:58	In Cambodia,
	what is happening there.

56:01	What is happening in Russia,

56:06	in the totalitarian states.

56:10	We read about it,
	we never shed a tear!

56:14	We are indifferent to all this

56:17	because we are so consumed
	by our own sorrow,

56:19	our own loneliness,
	our own inadequacy.

56:28	So we are going to
	ask ourselves

56:32	is there an end to sorrow?

56:40	Ending,
	not what happens after sorrow,

56:45	after the ending.

56:50	Is there an end
	to our personal sorrow,

56:55	with all the implications of it?

57:00	Ugly face
	– I won't call them ugly,

57:03	it is a face you don't like.

57:08	You know the whole business
	of all this.

57:20	And one asks,

57:22	if one is at all serious,
	involved,

57:26	committed to find out,

57:31	is there an end to sorrow?

57:41	And if there is an end,
	what is there?

57:48	Because we always want a reward.

57:54	Something – if I end this,
	I must have that.

58:01	We never end anything by itself,

58:06	for itself – per se.

58:11	So can this sorrow end?

58:16	Which means,

58:24	can there be sorrow
	with love?

58:34	Let's go into it.

58:39	I love my son

58:44	– if I have a son and daughter,
	I love them.

58:57	And they become
	every kind of human being

59:02	– drugs,
	you know the whole process of it.

59:05	And I cry.

59:13	And I call that sorrow.

59:19	What is the relationship
	of sorrow to love?

59:25	You understand my question?

59:27	I am asking you,
	please find out.

59:33	We know what sorrow is:

59:36	great pain, grief, loneliness,

59:43	sense of isolation.

59:47	My sorrow is entirely different
	from yours.

59:54	In the very feeling of it
	I have become isolated.

1:00:02	We know, not only verbally

1:00:07	but in depth, in the feeling,

1:00:10	inward feeling
	in our very being,

1:00:13	we know what the meaning
	of that word is.

1:00:20	And what is the relationship
	of sorrow to love?

1:00:33	Then we have to ask
	what is love.

1:00:37	You are asking this question,
	not the speaker.

1:00:41	What is love?

1:00:47	When one asks that question,

1:00:52	does one come to it positively,

1:00:56	in the sense, 'love is this',

1:01:02	give it certain definition,

1:01:06	verbal definition,
	or inward definition,

1:01:10	and stick to it?

1:01:14	Love of God, love of books,
	love of trees,

1:01:18	love of a dozen things.

1:01:22	So what is love?

1:01:28	Have you ever asked
	this question?

1:01:31	If you have,

1:01:33	is it sensation?

1:01:37	Sexual,
	reading a lovely poem,

1:01:42	looking at these
	marvellous old trees.

1:01:48	Is love pleasure?

1:01:52	Please, one must be
	terribly honest to ourselves,

1:01:56	otherwise
	there is no fun in this.

1:02:02	Humour is necessary,

1:02:07	to be able to laugh,

1:02:13	to find a good joke,

1:02:21	to be able to laugh together,

1:02:24	not when you are by yourself,
	but together.

1:02:33	And we are asking ourselves
	what is love.

1:02:39	Is love desire?

1:02:46	Is love thought?

1:02:52	Is love something
	that you hold, possess?

1:02:58	Is love that which you worship?

1:03:06	You understand?
	Worship

1:03:09	the statue, the image,
	the symbol.

1:03:14	Is that love?

1:03:17	The symbol, the statue, the picture,
	is put together by thought.

1:03:24	Your prayers you put together
	by thought.

1:03:28	Is that love?

1:03:30	Please go into it for yourself.

1:03:38	And when one realises
	all that is not love

1:03:45	– your pleasures, sensation,

1:03:48	having a good cigar,

1:03:51	good meal,

1:03:55	well-clothed,

1:03:58	with good taste.

1:04:04	So is pleasure, desire

1:04:10	– of course fear is not,
	obviously, love.

1:04:18	Have you ever looked at hate?

1:04:23	If you hate, you dispel fear.

1:04:28	Yes.

1:04:30	If you really hate somebody
	there is no fear.

1:04:36	Right?
	I hope you don't...

1:04:44	So, can we through negation
	of what is not love,

1:04:50	negate completely in oneself,

1:04:56	totally put aside entirely

1:05:01	all that which is not love?

1:05:09	Then that perfume is there.

1:05:17	And that perfume can never go
	once you have put aside completely

1:05:23	those things which are not love.

1:05:28	Then love,
	which goes with compassion,

1:05:33	has its own intelligence.

1:05:37	It is not the intelligence
	of thought,

1:05:42	not the intelligence
	of the scientific mind, brain.

1:05:50	When one has that love,
	that compassion,

1:05:55	there is no grief,
	no pain, no sorrow.

1:06:04	But to come to that

1:06:09	– you can't come to it, sorry –

1:06:20	it is there when you negate
	everything that it is not.

1:06:28	Not the beauty of an architect,
	which has put stones together.

1:06:36	If you have seen
	those cathedrals,

1:06:40	the temples and the mosques,

1:06:44	they are all put together
	by thought and pleasure,

1:06:47	or devotion, worship.

1:06:52	Is all that love?

1:06:56	If there is love
	then you will never kill another.

1:07:01	Never!

1:07:07	You will never kill
	another animal for your food.

1:07:11	Of course, please,

1:07:13	go on eating meat
	if you want to,

1:07:15	I am not telling you.

1:07:23	So it is an immense thing
	to come upon it.

1:07:29	Nobody can give it to another.

1:07:38	Nothing can give it to you.

1:07:43	But if you, in your being
	you put aside all that which is not,

1:07:51	all that which thought
	has put together,

1:07:55	the rituals,
	all the things that go on,

1:08:00	the special dresses.

1:08:05	When you with all your problems
	are totally empty,

1:08:09	then the other thing is,

1:08:11	which is the most
	positive thing,

1:08:14	most practical thing.

1:08:18	The most impractical thing in life
	is to build armaments,

1:08:25	to kill people.

1:08:28	Isn't it?

1:08:30	that is what you are spending
	your tax money on.

1:08:33	I am not a politician
	so don't listen to all this.

1:08:39	But see what we are all doing.

1:08:47	And what we are doing is the society
	which we have created.

1:08:54	That society
	is not different from us.

1:09:00	We may reform the society,
	lots of us are doing it,

1:09:07	the socialists, the capitalists,

1:09:10	especially the Communists
	tried to organise outside.

1:09:22	So love has nothing to do
	with any organisation

1:09:29	or with any person.

1:09:34	Like the cool breeze
	from the ocean, this breeze,

1:09:40	you can shut it out
	or live with it.

1:09:45	When you live with it,

1:09:50	it is a totally
	different dimension.

1:09:54	There is no path to it,

1:09:56	there is no path to truth,

1:10:01	either yours or mine.

1:10:04	No path whatsoever

1:10:07	– Christian, Hindu, sectarian,

1:10:11	gosh.

1:10:13	So one has to live it.

1:10:18	You can only come to it

1:10:21	when you have understood
	the whole psychological nature

1:10:25	and structure of yourself.

1:10:35	We ought to talk over sometime,
	tomorrow perhaps

1:10:40	– it is now twenty to one.

1:10:44	Yes, it is twenty to one –

1:10:46	do you want to talk over
	together death

1:10:49	or wait till tomorrow?

1:10:52	This is not an invitation
	for you to come tomorrow.

1:10:58	Whether you come
	or don't come

1:11:00	is totally indifferent
	to the speaker.

1:11:09	That is a very,
	very complex problem, death.

1:11:16	Death is not a sensation.

1:11:22	Do you want the speaker, together,
	to go into all this now?

1:11:27	Audience: Yes.

1:11:30	K: Are you quite sure?
	A: Yes.

1:11:33	K: No, please,
	you are asking this,

1:11:41	because this is a very,
	very serious matter.

1:11:45	All that we have talked about
	is very, very serious.

1:11:49	We have time to go into it.

1:11:52	You understand?

1:11:54	We went through all this
	in detail,

1:11:57	we can go into these things

1:12:02	during six talks, etc.,
	any number of talks,

1:12:10	any number of conversations.

1:12:13	But to talk about death,

1:12:16	it is not a morbid subject,

1:12:19	It is not something
	to be avoided,

1:12:24	something at the end
	of one's life.

1:12:33	I think we had better
	wait till tomorrow

1:12:36	– just a minute, sir, just listen
	to what the speaker has to say.

1:12:42	If you have lived the thing
	that we have been talking about,

1:12:54	you must come to all this
	delicately, gently, quietly,

1:12:59	not out of curiosity.

1:13:03	Come to it hesitantly,

1:13:08	delicately, in a sense
	with great dignity,

1:13:14	with inward respect.

1:13:22	And like birth,
	it is a tremendous thing.

1:13:30	And to talk about death
	also implies creation,

1:13:37	not invention.

1:13:40	Scientists are inventing,

1:13:47	because invention
	is born from knowledge.

1:13:51	Creation is continuous.

1:13:55	It has no beginning and no end,
	it is not born out of knowledge.

1:14:01	And death may be
	the meaning of creation.

1:14:06	Not having next life
	a better opportunity,

1:14:09	better house,
	better refrigerator.

1:14:15	It may be a sense of
	tremendous creation,

1:14:22	endlessly,
	without beginning and end.

1:14:25	And to talk about it

1:14:29	after an hour
	and twenty minutes,

1:14:33	an hour and ten minutes
	or five minutes, doesn't matter,

1:14:37	it requires your attention, care,

1:14:42	a sense of
	delicate approach to it.

1:14:49	So may we

1:14:51	– most humbly I am asking you,
	respectfully –

1:14:53	can we talk about it
	tomorrow morning,

1:15:01	when we will
	probably have more energy?

1:15:23	May we get up?