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RA65TS3 - Why does one have to have order in life?
Rajghat, India - 7 December 1965
School Talk 3



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s third talk with students at Rajghat, 1965.
0:12 Krishnamurti (K): What would you like me to talk about this morning?
0:19 [Pause] I wonder what beauty means in one’s life.
1:05 Have you ever thought about it? You see the blue sky through a tree, and it is intensely blue, clear.
1:33 And you see the sun in the morning on the river.
1:45 And you see a flock of parrots, green, screeching, flying across the sky.
2:01 You see a bird nesting. And there is the vast space where the earth and the horizon meet.
2:20 And you see the beggar, that woman carrying the heavy load.
2:30 You see all this—the beauty of a face, the colour of a sari, bright, sparkling—a jewel.
2:47 And you see a flower, simple, clear on the roadside.
2:59 You see all this.
3:07 And you say how lovely that is, and you pass it by.
3:18 Having a look, making a statement, and going on with your own thoughts, with your own worries, and the day passes by.
3:39 And the next day you look at all these things—the sky, the birds, the flower, the river, and the face that was beautiful, and they no longer mean the same thing.
4:08 And for us beauty—the feeling of great loveliness, the feeling for space, the enormous space that covers the earth, the feeling of being very quiet, and the feeling of loving people, all this is part of that extraordinary thing that we call beauty, not only the physical appearance—how you dress, how you sit, the way you talk, the way you gesture, how you behave when you are with your elders or with those whom you respect, or with those for whom you have no respect at all.
5:45 All this, the beauty of a face, the mannerisms, the quiet, undisciplined mind that is free—it is only a free mind, a mind that can look without the borders, without limitation, it is only such a mind can know what beauty is.
6:37 And for many of us, anything that approaches, comes near tenderness, affection, we would rather avoid, because it implies, it complicates life too much.
7:13 So we avoid them. And outwardly put on good clothes, try to live in a nice, clean, well-proportioned room, put on a nice sari or a good dress, having good taste, with that we are satisfied.
7:46 But the quality of beauty can only be felt or realized when the mind is free, and freedom cannot come by except through right discipline.
8:10 You know, that word discipline is so misused.
8:24 Discipline means order, doesn’t it really? A well-ordered mind, not a disordered mind, not a sloppy mind, not a mind that wanders all over the place, but a mind that acts, thinks, feels clearly.
8:57 Order means discipline, and the profession of a teacher is one of the most difficult professions in the world.
9:16 The professional teacher, you know, the teacher in schools, in universities, it’s one of the most demanding and responsible professions, probably it is the most responsible position in the world, because they are creating new human beings and bringing about a new generation, a new mind into being.
9:58 And until those professionals who are teachers understand this nature of discipline, either they suppress, force the student to conform to a pattern of respectability, or be indifferent what the student will be.
10:40 So it is important, it seems to me, to consider what is discipline.
10:56 Surely discipline is behaviour—to behave, and behaviour, how one behaves, how one conducts oneself, this behaviour is righteousness.
11:30 And behaviour cannot be forced into a pattern, into a mould.
11:48 If it is forced into a mould, into a pattern, then it ceases to be a behaviour, ceases to be righteous.
12:06 You understand what I am talking about? Or am I talking too abstractly?
12:21 Behaviour demands certain spontaneity, certain freedom.
12:30 If I am told how to behave for the rest of my life, and function in that framework, then it is not behaviour, it is not righteous.
12:43 I just conform, imitate, follow the line laid down by somebody.
12:55 So I discipline through conformity, through fear, through reward or punishment.
13:14 I follow, I obey, I am punctual, I sit rightly, but all that through fear, conformity, imitation, and forcing—somebody outside forcing me to behave, or inwardly, because I am frightened I try to follow a certain discipline, certain pattern of behaviour.
13:47 So such behaviour is not righteous at all.
13:55 So there is a different behaviour which we are going to find out, which is based on a discipline which is entirely different from suppression, from conformity.
14:20 Why does one have to have order in life?
14:29 Why does one have to have a clean room, if one has a room? Why do you have to put on clean dress, clean clothes? Why do you sweep the room? Why do you brush your hair? Why do you clean your teeth? Why do you go to bed at a certain time?
14:56 If you didn’t do these things, you would live a very sloppy life, a dirty life.
15:06 There would be no order, and therefore no efficiency.
15:17 So order means efficiency, capacity to do things at the right moment with right energy, with intensity.
15:39 And to have intensity, to do things freely, there must be a discipline, which is order.
15:56 If you are punctual, on time, for a meeting like this, or for the class, or when you go to the dining room—punctual, why are you punctual?
16:17 You are punctual because if you are not there at the right moment, the doors will be closed and you won’t get your meal.
16:31 So there is the fear of punishment.
16:38 I do not consider that discipline. But if you went there at the right moment, precisely, you go there because of consideration.
16:54 You are considering others. And this consideration of others is discipline. The consideration of others demands discipline—not discipline for its own sake, which has no meaning.
17:18 But if I am concerned that I shouldn’t keep you waiting, then I’ll come to this meeting punctually, at the right time, because of consideration.
17:40 That consideration creates its own discipline. You understand?
17:52 And, you see, most of us are so traditional, authority-bound, that we’d rather obey, be told what to do, especially in this country, because of over-population, the fear that the parents have with regard to their children, and so on and on and on.
18:45 And these fears of the parents, of the teachers, of society, forces people to conform, to obey.
18:56 And therefore such conformity, such fear creates its own discipline, but that is a most destructive discipline.
19:13 So one has to understand, if one is a teacher, a professional teacher in a school, this whole question of authority and discipline: to bring about a discipline in a class, order in a class.
19:42 Mere enforcement, a verbal chastisement, may make you sit quietly, but you have lost all your spontaneity, your freedom.
19:56 And I don’t know if you have noticed that you can learn easily when there is an atmosphere of freedom and friendship, when there is a sense of happiness.
20:17 And that happiness and that freedom is denied when you are merely compelled.
20:27 So compulsion is not righteous behaviour.
20:38 So, to understand discipline requires intelligence.
20:52 And intelligence is, essentially, behaviour in relationship.
21:11 I am afraid I am not conveying this to you, but doesn’t matter.
21:21 Because you see, you see if you, as I said at the beginning of this talk, if you were concerned with beauty, not just putting on good clothes and all that, that is part of it—good taste, but if you are really concerned with beauty, you must also then be concerned with order.
22:08 And order means freedom, not exactly to do what you like.
22:16 That’s not behaviour. So, if you are concerned with beauty—and we must be.
22:29 In India very few are concerned with beauty.
22:39 Your whole philosophy, your religious sanctions, the climate, the over-population, the lack of food, all that denies the appreciation, the love of beauty.
23:13 And when you love someone, love a tree, a bird, a person, a teacher, your mother or father, when you love somebody, that very love brings its own discipline, because you are concerned with another.
23:38 Therefore love means discipline. But to discipline oneself without love is a dreadful thing.
23:51 You become dull, arid, empty, vacant, without substance.
24:01 Now you ask questions. Perhaps that’s better than my talking. Student (S): Sir, what is the foundation of religion?
24:17 K: What is the foundation of religion. My God! [Laughter] What is the foundation of religion.
24:38 Obviously not the teaching.
24:45 Are you following what I am saying? [Laughs] It’s such a complex question, isn’t it?
25:06 You know, most religions are based on the idea, not on the fact, on an ideology of being kind, gentle, loving your neighbour, not to kill, not to envy another, to behave generously, give what little one has, to another, to consider your neighbour—that is the idea, the ideology of most religions.
26:01 That’s what real religious teachers preach—real ones, not the phoney ones.
26:16 And the priests, the bishops, the gurus, base religion on totally different things: on ceremonies, on power, position, dogma, belief, and all the things that go to make up a religious organization.
26:50 So, religious organizations have nothing whatever to do with religion.
27:05 Religion essentially is, is it not, based on love of another—love which will not kill, which will not harm another, which is unafraid.
27:31 A human being who is really religious is unafraid of death, of what people say.
27:42 A really religious person is free from his own egotism.
27:56 And religions, organized religions, have beliefs of immortality, of reincarnation, condition the mind along a certain way to believe or not to believe.
28:22 Religion is really deep investigation of oneself as one is, not imagine or speculate, or assert that you are God or not God, that you are a superior soul and atman and all the rest of it.
28:49 But to really investigate into oneself, and find out the truth for oneself.
28:57 And to find out the truth for oneself one must be free from the very beginning.
29:05 And therefore to be free from the very beginning is to understand discipline which is the very essence of intelligence.
29:19 S: Sir, why the man wants success in his life?
29:30 Q: [Repeats] Why does a man want success in life.
29:38 K: Am I making these answers rather difficult? I am afraid I am. I am sorry. But you see, unless you take in the whole thing, you cannot answer it properly, you can’t answer a tremendous question partially.
30:09 You have to look at the whole thing, and most of us haven’t the patience to look, to understand this vast thing called man’s hope, which becomes crystallized in belief, and then which is translated as religion.
30:43 The other question is: Why does a human being seek success?
30:53 Did you ask your father?, or your mother, or some relation who wants to be successful in life?
31:09 You know, success is worshipped in the world.
31:16 It’s a real goddess, you understand?, much greater goddess than all the goddesses put together by religion.
31:27 Everybody wants to be a successful person.
31:34 From the sanyasi who wants to be a success in finding God—whatever he is seeking, to the highest politician, with all his cunning, crooked ways.
31:49 He also wants to be a success, the poet wants to be a success, the painter, the dancer, the businessman, the teacher, he wants to become successful because then he will become the principal, then he will become the—somebody, always searching, searching, longing, struggling to become successful.
32:18 Because when you are a success, the world admires you, your name appears in the paper, in a magazine or on a screen in the cinema.
32:34 And success means position, power, prestige, which means money.
32:41 So that’s what most of us want.
32:48 Practically every human being in different ways wants success. A doctor, a musician, a housewife, a businessman, everybody worships this terrific goddess which is called success.
33:10 Because in that success you have pleasure, you have cars, a beautiful house, you can order about, you have people depending on you, or giving you garlands, saying what a wonderful man, and kicking you behind.
33:30 [Laughter] You know, that’s what goes on all the world over.
33:39 And a man who sees all this, the brutality of all this, the cunningness, the exploitation, the ruthlessness of all this: each one out for himself, in the name of God, in the name of peace, in the name of country, everybody is out for themselves.
34:08 Though they identify themselves with religious groups, with political groups, with social groups, with every form of deception, each one is out for himself and to be successful, deeply.
34:24 This is not a cynical statement, this is an obvious fact.
34:32 And when you see this whole thing and what is involved in it, a really intelligent man doesn’t go that way, doesn’t tread that path at all.
34:47 He shuns it, because that path leads to war, that path leads to cruelty, to cunningness, to self-importance, and along that path there is no love.
35:13 And it is only when you have love, there is order in the world, not success.
35:25 [Pause] May I ask you a question?
35:54 There are about two or three hundred here, students. What are you all going to be when you grow up? That is a legitimate question, isn’t it?
36:06 That is a right question. What are you all going to be? Lawyers, engineers, butchers, [Laughter] what?, ministers, scientists—for the boys, all that.
36:30 For the girls, marriage, right?, babies, family—coping.
36:38 Is that all? That’s what you are all going to be? End up that way? Right? I am asking you. And disappear completely in this mass. Right? Is that all what’s going to happen to each one of us?
37:07 Oh, Lord! You can’t answer me? Or, are you going to become a successful man, a successful woman—cars, houses.
37:25 I am not against cars, I am not against having clean, lovely gardens, houses.
37:37 But is that the—is that what’s going to happen?
37:47 Is that why you are being educated, to disappear in this mass of people?
37:59 Do tell me.
38:10 To become teachers?, which I...
38:18 [Laughs] to teach mathematics, geography, which you have just learnt, and passed a few examinations, and you think you have also come to a school because you can’t do anything better, therefore you become teachers and therefore teach?
38:34 Is that what you are all going to do?
38:42 Or, are you going to swim against the current?
38:51 You know what that means, swimming against the current?
39:02 Going against the whole psychological structure of society—not little bit here and there, a little bit there, but totally.
39:18 [Laughs] Well, I’ve asked you the question, you don’t seem to answer.
39:29 I hope when you go back to your room, of a quiet night, when you have nothing else to do, when you are not studying, when you are not quarrelling, when you are not saying things about another—either pleasant or unpleasant things, then perhaps you will ask yourself this question.
39:57 It is really a very important question.
40:07 It is much more important to find out how to swim against the current of human ignorance, human superstition and fear, than to find out if there is a god, to believe in a god, to be a Hindu or a Muslim, or a Christian—those are not important.
40:43 What is important is to be so educated that you have the intelligence to stand alone, which is to swim against the current.
41:04 And it is only the person who is alone that can find out for himself what is Truth, what is God, if there is God, how to bring about order in this world.
41:29 Have I prevented you from asking questions?
41:42 S: Sir, when bad thoughts come to our mind and we want to suppress them, then even more bad thoughts come in our mind.
42:02 Why is that?
42:05 K: Ah, ah. The question is: When we have bad thoughts—whatever that may mean—when we have bad thoughts, we try to suppress them and in the very process of suppressing them we have still more bad thoughts.
42:26 [Laughter] Right? What is a bad thought? Thought: oh, you have got a more, bigger house than I have, you look more nice than I do, I wish I were as clever as you are, I wish I were as intelligent, and so on.
43:05 Right? Jealousy, envy, greed—they come up. Why do you call them bad thoughts? They are there, aren’t they? They arise, don’t they? I look at you and you are more intelligent, you are more beautiful, you have something else than me.
43:30 I’ve those feelings of anger, jealousy, envy. Why do I call it bad? You call it bad because you think you should not have those feelings. Right? But you have them. So, by calling them bad, you haven’t solved the problem.
44:02 So, if you could look at the jealousy without calling it bad, then perhaps you will be able to understand it.
44:11 Right? So, don’t call anything bad or good. First look at it. If you see a flower, look at it. Don’t say, I don’t like that flower, it is ugly flower, I prefer this or that. Just look at it. Then you will be able to look at that flower much more closely, more, you know, more deeply.
44:48 You will be able to feel the nature of that flower. But if you say, I don’t like it, or call it bad, you don’t understand it.
45:01 So, to understand something is to look at it, not call it bad or good, but to look.
45:12 And when you look, why should you suppress anything?—you just look.
45:24 And you know, thought is neither bad nor good.
45:35 It is there. It’s like my having brown hair or black hair or curly hair or whatever, it is there!
45:50 So, what is important is to look—look at your own thought, look at your own feeling.
46:06 And you can’t look if you condemn it, or if you say what a lovely feeling that is.
46:23 And don’t suppress anything.
46:30 Look at it, watch it, understand it, go into it, examine it.
46:37 Because what you suppress today will come up again tomorrow.
46:49 Each time you overcome something, that something has to be overcome again. But whereas if you look and understand, you will be free of it.
47:03 S: Sir, how is it possible to keep oneself happy...
47:18 K: Slowly, slowly. Would you talk slowly?
47:21 S: How is it possible to keep oneself happy or engaged in other things...
47:29 K: Or awake?
47:30 S: Engaged.
47:31 K: Engaged.
47:32 S: Engaged in other things.
47:34 Q: Occupied.
47:35 K: Occupied.
47:36 S: Yes, occupied yourself in the absence of any external stimulus?
47:42 K: Ah, I see. How is one to keep happy, engaged, without external stimuli.
48:07 [Laughs]I don’t know what you mean by happiness, first.
48:15 I don’t know what you mean by being engaged, occupied.
48:17 Q: Occupied, happily occupied.
48:18 K: Occupied. Now, why should you be occupied? To keep out of mischief?
48:25 S: That’s not there, sir. I find it very difficult to do away—I can’t keep myself doing nothing.
48:39 K: No, no, I understand. First look. You say, I must be occupied. Right? Why? Don’t say, I can’t remain doing nothing. That’s not the problem. Why do you want to be occupied?
49:05 S: I don’t know what to do about it.
49:16 K: Wait. Go slow. [Laughs] Go slowly into it. You want to be occupied because you don’t know what to do if you are not occupied.
49:29 Right? So you say, by Jove, I don’t want to get lost, I don’t want to be disturbed, I don’t want to be empty, I don’t want to be this or that, therefore let me do something.
49:41 Let me become a social worker, let me become a politician, let me become a religious leader, let me cook, do something, right?, because you are frightened of not doing anything, right?
49:56 Now, that’s one thing. Second, what do you mean by being happy?
50:05 S: At least not being unhappy.
50:15 [Laughter] Q: Not being unhappy.
50:17 K: Not being unhappy.
50:18 Q: (Inaudible) K: Wait, wait, wait. Not being unhappy. Do you know what it means to be unhappy? Now wait, observe, think it out, go into it. Do you know what it means to be unhappy? Because I call you stupid, does that make you unhappy?
50:42 You can’t do as well as somebody else in an examination and therefore you feel unhappy? Or, you are not so beautiful as that person, therefore you are unhappy? Or you like to own, you like to have this, you like to have that, you like to have your neighbours, your country prosperous, therefore you are unhappy?
51:05 Or you are not well physically, therefore you are unhappy?
51:14 Why are you unhappy? Because you have indigestion?, you have got a headache?
51:31 So.
51:39 Actually you don’t know what happiness is, nor unhappiness.
51:51 Right? [Laughs] All that you know is a state of unpleasant feeling, discomfort, discontent.
52:09 And you say, by Jove, if I could only be content, I’d be very happy.
52:16 Right? So, what you call unhappiness is the state in which you find yourself which doesn’t give you satisfaction.
52:30 Right? So you are seeking satisfaction, aren’t you?, not happiness or unhappiness.
52:38 [Laughs] You want to be satisfied. Right? If you are a grown-up man, you want to be satisfied by having a car, a house, children, a bigger position, more money.
52:57 And if you want to become famous, you do all kinds of..., you want—everybody wants to be satisfied.
53:06 You know, they fill their tummy with good food and feel terribly satisfied.
53:20 And, is happiness anything to do with satisfaction?
53:28 Because you can be satisfied one day with this, and next day be dissatisfied with that, with this thing, that which you have.
53:43 Right? So, find out if happiness has anything to do with success, with satisfaction, with a mind that is occupied because it says I am frightened not to be occupied.
54:09 Happiness may be something entirely different. Happiness may be a by-product of something much greater.
54:22 You understand? So don’t say I must be occupied. Don’t say I am unhappy, I must be happy.
54:38 But find out, enquire, look into, why you demand satisfaction.
54:50 And is there ever a mind that’s completely satisfied?
55:01 If a mind, a heart, is completely satisfied, it’s a dead mind, it’s like a body that has been stuffed with a lot of food, and you know, heavy, lumpy.
55:18 So, probably if you looked deeply, you will find happiness is something entirely different and it is a side-issue of a much greater state.
55:37 And a mind that is occupied—whether with God, with sex, with drink, with a family, with hate, with nationalism, such a mind is a confused mind and therefore always creating problems for itself and for others.
56:09 It is only clear mind, a clear mind, which is, a mind that is clear is not afraid, is not seeking something for itself, is not greedy, ambitious, competitive and all the rest of it.
56:34 It is only the clear mind, because it is clear, it is happy.
56:41 Happiness doesn’t very much matter there.
56:48 And a clear mind need not be occupied and does not demand any stimuli. It is clear, like light.
57:02 S: Sir, the other day you said that we should never seek for advice.
57:20 K: Yes.
57:21 S: But why do you give us advice?
57:23 K: The other day you said you mustn’t seek advice. Then why do you give advice. Am I giving advice?
57:26 S: No, sir.
57:27 K: No, no, no, no. Look, look, look, look. Am I giving you advice?
57:32 S: Not at present, but...
57:34 K: When am I giving you advice? When you say, not at present, then I must have given advice at another time or in the future.
57:46 I think that is one of the most cruel and terrible things to advise somebody else.
58:00 Because by advising what another should do, you either make him dull, or make him feel—if he doesn’t follow it—guilty, and put yourself in a position as though you knew everything and the other fellow didn’t.
58:20 So that’s why I said, don’t seek advice.
58:29 And I am not giving advice. I say look, which is not advice.
58:39 I say find out, ask, question, doubt.
58:48 Don’t be put to sleep by stimuli, by parents, by authority, by knowledge.
58:59 Keep awake, look, search, ask.
59:06 That way your mind becomes terribly alert, alive. You know, it’s like that river, life is.
59:20 Either you flow with the full current, or you dig a little hole on the bank with a little water of that river and think you are living.
59:38 And that’s what happens with most of us.
59:47 We dig a little ditch and live in that, quarrel about that, and never enter into the full stream of that current which sweeps you along endlessly.
1:00:10 S: Sir, have you realised all those things which you say?
1:00:24 And is your mind free from ambition and all those things?
1:00:25 K: Have you realized yourself all the things you are saying [Laughs]—anguish, fear, success.
1:00:34 Now, wait a minute. I don’t mind being asked anything. That is first. Second, if I say, yes, I know it, you may not know it, right?, only I know whether I am or not.
1:00:57 I can be a hypocrite to myself, you follow?, and say, yes, I have.
1:01:06 And I know for myself—without deception, without hypocrisy, without wanting to put something over on somebody.
1:01:23 Right? And what good does it do to you?
1:01:27 S: Because you say so many things.
1:01:30 Q: [Repeats] Because you say so many things.
1:01:35 K: Yes, my lady, I say so many things. But what good does it do to you? Suppose, admit, even for a moment, that the speaker has this thing.
1:01:50 The speaker says he is out of this. In what way does it affect you? Seriously, think about it seriously. Do you then set him up as an example, as a hero on the wall, a picture?
1:02:12 If it is a picture, a hero, a symbol, an ideal, throw it down the drain.
1:02:20 You understand? Throw it down the drain, kick it out, burn it, destroy it.
1:02:36 What matters is not your example, your ideal, the picture on the wall, the image, what matters is that you should—you, be free from all these things.
1:02:54 You know there is a lovely story of a monk who had an image handed down by his teacher, a very, very old image, made of wood, highly polished, because it’d been handled for generation after generation, a beautiful thing, a symbol of some reality.
1:03:24 And it had been worshipped—garlands, flowers, incense.
1:03:31 So this monk, one night, when he was terribly cold, and he had no wood, he looked at that image which was made of wood, and he said what shall I do?
1:03:44 And the image said to him, break me, break me up into little pieces, and you will have warmth.
1:03:55 So the monk says, all right. Takes a hammer and breaks it up and keeps warm. Right? Do the same. Destroy all your images, whether the images are made by the hand or by the mind.
1:04:21 S: Sir, how can a man progress in his own life?
1:04:31 K: How can a man progress in his own life. By not being a Sikh, [Laughs] a Hindu, a Buddhist, by being intelligent, unafraid.
1:04:56 You know, the word progress is an extraordinary word.
1:05:05 You hear that train crossing that bridge? The engine used to be steam. Now the engines are electric, or self—or in the engine the electricity is created and which pushes it and so on and on.
1:05:30 There is progress, isn’t there?, from the cartwheel to that engine, right?, from the cartwheel to the jet plane that goes to New York, London in a few hours, or to Tokyo, right?
1:05:46 There is progress from tyranny to freedom.
1:05:57 Outwardly man is making tremendous progress—going to the moon, to Venus, taking photographs on the other side of the moon, which man has never seen.
1:06:14 They are doing most extraordinary things—progress.
1:06:21 But man inwardly remains more or less the same after two million years. So where do you make progress? So what does progress mean? To remain, as you are going to remain, afraid, fitting into a marriage pattern, the family, the children, the quarrels, all that?, the ugliness and the brutality of nationalism and wars?, getting a job and being very successful and kicking others aside?
1:07:17 So, this progress, which we so worship, has also the other side which is darkness, which is, that man has remained more or less still an animal.
1:07:36 S: Sir, man is more inclined towards bad than good. Why it is so?
1:07:54 K: Man is inclined more towards the bad than the good, why.
1:08:17 Now, you know, take what has happened in this country.
1:08:27 When war was going on, they said all India was united, tremendously.
1:08:36 Right? Right? United through what?—through hate, weren’t they?
1:08:47 No? Not through love. They hated somebody else on the other side of a line, which has been, you know, geographically marked—those you hate.
1:09:01 And therefore you all get together to beat him down. Right? And that side too, gets together to beat this side down. Right? So what is bad?
1:09:22 Why does man do this, always?
1:09:29 First he wants to protect, not his country, but protect his savings, his money, his job, his house, his family.
1:09:45 He doesn’t want to be disturbed. And the other side does the same thing. You may call him a Muslim and I may call this side the Hindu.
1:10:01 So this has been going on for, oh, beyond memory.
1:10:11 And it is easier to hate than to love. Why? Because all our social, economic, religious thinking is based on this: my religion and your religion, my God and your God, my country and your country.
1:10:35 So it is easier.
1:10:43 And to break out, break away from this pattern is very difficult.
1:10:50 So we just admit, comply, follow, obey.
1:11:02 And we never say, look, let’s find out a different way of living, you understand?, a different way of living, a different kind of relationship, we can’t keep on quarrelling with that side, or that side quarrelling, having battles with this side and killing.
1:11:24 There will be peace only when that side and this side federate, come together.
1:11:34 That, the politician doesn’t want, nor the vested interest wants.
1:11:43 So we keep up this. And also we—we like our nationalism, we love our flags, that silly little cloth you stick upon a pole.
1:11:58 All that, because it is the tradition, it is what people have done for centuries, and we just accept it and follow it.
1:12:09 We don’t say, now let’s find out, let’s look, see if there is a different way of living together.
1:12:18 I’d better stop.
1:12:29 Do we have another of these meetings? I was told this was the last.
1:12:35 Q: No, on the 10th, sir, at 9.30 in this hall.
1:12:40 K: Another one.
1:12:41 Q: Another meeting—with the students.
1:12:42 K: Students meeting on the 10th. I was told the other day, I was here at Rajghat mainly for the school, for the children and the teachers, not for the gathering.
1:12:59 Right? So we shall have more meetings for the students and teachers. Is that all right? You are not bored by all this? Several voices: No, sir.
1:13:11 K: You know what boredom is? Right? So, if you are not bored, we will have some more of these meetings. Right?