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RV79DS1 - To be sensitive is to be aware of what you are doing
Rishi Valley, India - 17 November 1979
Discussion with Students 1



0:20 Krishnamurti: You all speak English, don't you? You all speak English, don't you?
0:25 Students: Yes.

K: Good.
0:29 K: You know, the other day, I think it was three or four days ago, boys and girls of the eighth, ninth, tenth, twelfth, fifteenth or whatever they are, came to the room upstairs and we talked about several things. One of the things that we talked about was whether Rishi Valley, the school, is cultivating your brain. Wait a minute, I will go into it presently. Because it is very important, while we are young, not only to have the capacity to pass academically, but also to cultivate the other parts of the brain, not just merely memorise subjects which you do in order to pass examinations and get a career, a job and so on, but also there is the other part of the brain – the sensitivity, the capacity to think, not along a particular line according to which you have been trained, but also to think widely, not in a narrow groove. I know this is all very difficult, but this is what we were talking about. And also we were saying, while we are young, how very important it is to cultivate all our senses. Now, I will explain what I mean by senses, and I will go into it carefully so that we all understand it. While you are very young, as you are, do you see the flowers? Do you see the flowers? The mountains, the green grass, the little stream running under the bridge? Do you see the poor people, your gardener, your servant, the cook, do you see the varieties of green, see the blue sky and the shape of the clouds? Or are you merely concerned with your little study, with your little problem, with your little self? Or are you concerned, are you observing the whole universe? Do you understand what I am saying? No, I am sure you don't. Do they? Some of the teachers, please tell me, do they understand what I am talking about? Do you older students understand what I am talking about? I will explain again. That is, when we are very young, we are very sensitive. We are shy, nervous, slightly frightened. And we want to play, we want to enjoy life, full of fun. But in that fun we are apt to forget or not observe the vast nature around us: the beauty of the hills, the curve of a leaf, the depth of a limb, the size of the trunk, how the leaves flutter in the wind. And so gradually we lose our sensitivity and become like the rest of the world. You understand? So it is very important while we are young, innocent, learning, curious, not only to develop the faculty of memory which is very common in the world, because that is what you are all doing, your education is that. You take a subject: mathematics, geography, history, whatever it is, and learn all about it, which is, the learning is memorising. You memorise about mathematics or memorise history. So you have cultivated the capacity to have great memory. Right? When you have only that capacity you become mechanical. You repeat. You understand this? That is you are traditional, you follow a particular job, your mind becomes mechanical – machine, repeating according to what you have learned as memory. You understand this? So you are never free to observe. Observe the poor people, how they suffer, observe your own mother and father, what their troubles are. Observe, you know, the shape of a nice face, observe how others are dressed, observe your own difficulties, your own problems. So you begin to learn how to learn. Right? No, this is a bit too difficult. So that is what we are talking about. And I would like to go into something else, which is, while you are young like this, to have good manners. You know what good manners are? Do you? What do you mean by that? Tell me. You agree, you say yes, you shake your head. What do you mean by having good manners? Now, this morning when I got onto the platform I saluted you – right? You didn't salute me. Except you. That is good manners when somebody salutes you, you should also salute. Right? No? That is one thing. It is also good to behave properly, because as you get older, your behaviour is according to what other people are doing. Do you understand what I am saying? Do they understand what I am saying? So one has to have very good manners. I am going to show you what good manners are. When somebody talks to you, you listen. Do you understand? I am talking to you now, do you listen to me?
10:09 S: Yes, sir.

K: Just a minute.
10:12 K: When you listen to me, it means that you are not thinking of other things. That you are actually listening to me. Are you doing that? Or you just listen for a couple of seconds and think about something else. So good manners are, first, to listen to what somebody has to say. This is very important, because you may learn a great deal from listening. After all that is what you are doing, when you go to a class, you are listening to what the teacher has to tell you. There, you are forced to listen. You may not want to listen, you may want to look out of the window or pull somebody's hair, or do something else. But the teacher says listen, pay attention to the book, listen to what I am saying. But you are not listening, because you are resisting, you want to look out of the window, and you force yourself to look at the book. You follow all this? Therefore that is not listening. When you listen, it means you are very polite, careful to find out what the other person has to say, and not talk to another person while he is talking. That is one of the things: to have good manners implies to listen very carefully to what the other person is saying. Will you do that?
12:24 S: Yes, sir.
12:26 K: Listen to the politician, and their crooked ways of thinking, to your father, to your mother, to other people, so that your ears become very sharp. You hear everything that is being said, and not only the words but behind the words. You understand what I am saying? So that is one of the senses you have – that is, hearing. So that is, to have good manners means to listen very carefully. Other thing good manners is: to observe, to look, to see the shape of the building, to see what other people are wearing, to see very clearly the shape of the hills, to see very clearly the poor people. I don't know if you have noticed, some of these women have only one sari and one shirt, blouse or whatever you call it – only one. Have you noticed it? Any of you? Have you? If you have noticed it what do you do about it? Just notice it and walk on? You understand what I am saying? You see one of those women with only one blouse and one sari, dirty, and that is all they have. What do you feel when you see that? Sympathy, affection, or give something that you have? You follow? So that you learn to have great sympathy, affection for others, whether they are poor or rich. That is another factor of good behaviour. When somebody is talking to you, don't put your hands in your pocket and listen. Politeness demands that you remove your hands out of your pocket, sit quietly or stand quietly, and listen. The other day, I passed two or three boys. I said how are you. I saluted them. You know, they just passed by with their hands in their pocket, lolling about. Is that politeness? Right? So please learn while you are young, for your own sake, to be extremely attentive, to watch people, to listen to people, to have your eyes see everything around you, not only you always looking at yourself in a mirror. Right? And also it is very important when you talk to older people to be a little courteous to them – to be courteous. Perhaps they may know a little more than you do, or they may not. But being young, one has to be considerate to others. You know what is happening in the world, outside world? Young people throughout the world don't care a pin for their parents or for their elders. They are not interested. So they are becoming more and more permissive, doing what they want to do. Do you know all this? Do you? No, you don't. How am I going to tell these students, all these young people, how important it is while they are very young, before they go to college and all the rest of it, before they enter the world, to have great sense, all your senses: taste, seeing, smelling, hearing and touching – sensitive, alive. Are you being helped in your school with all this? Are you? Or nobody cares. Would you kindly tell me? I am asking you a question, sirs, you older people. Are you being encouraged by your teachers, by your elders, by your educators to not only memorise, but to have the mind – mind, the brain – active in other directions? Are you being helped that way? Would you answer me?
19:03 S: Some of the teachers are helping.
19:08 Narayan: Some of the teachers are helping.
19:10 K: Some of the teachers. Why not all the teachers?
19:13 S: We don't know.
19:16 K: I am asking the other teachers. Why aren't they all helping you?
19:24 S: They are helping in their own way.
19:30 K: All the teachers or only a few teachers?
19:34 S: All the teachers.
19:37 K: So, wait a minute. That boy says there, only a few teachers do this, and you say all the teachers. Now, who is correct? No, think it out. You say all the teachers, and that boy over there says only a few.
20:01 S: I am talking about Rajghat school.
20:04 N: He is from Rajghat.
20:12 K: That is a dirty trick on me. Now what is the truth? Do all the teachers in Rishi Valley, apart from Rajghat, help you? Not only – please listen – not only to memorise so that you pass exams, but also to cultivate your brain, to help you to think properly, not just memory, to think. Do they help you? Come on, do they?
21:10 S: I think the teachers help us, but probably we do not take their help.
21:15 K: Ah.

S: Yes, the teachers help us here,
21:18 S: but probably we do not take their help.

K: I understand.
21:20 K: So the teachers try to help you, but you don't receive. Why?
21:31 S: We need encouragement.
21:36 K: I can't hear.

S: We need encouragement.
21:40 N: They need encouragement.
21:43 K: You need encouragement. Don't they encourage you to listen? You understand how important this is? Now just a minute, I will tell you something. Our brains – you know what brains are?
21:59 K: Do you?

S: Yes.
22:02 K: Our brains are very, very old. They are millions of years old. During those millions and millions of years, the brain has passed through many, many experiences, adversities, trouble, suffering, pleasure, agony, all that has been through millions of years. Your brain has gone through all that. Do you know that? Do you? Now, so your brain is not your brain, it is the brain of human beings. I wonder if they see that. It is collection of all human beings who have lived on this earth for millions of years. And now what is happening is, because of our society, because of the overpopulation, because of the economic conditions, the divisions of nationalities and so on, we are now making this vast mind, brain, into a narrow little groove, becoming specialists as engineers, as financiers, as doctors, as painters, but not the whole of the brain developed. You understand? Do you follow this? Now, when I am talking to you, are you listening with all your capacity? Or only listening to what you like to listen to. Or listening so attentive, so carefully that your whole brain is alive? Are you? Or you are talking to each other. I see they are talking to each other over there, which means you are impolite, you are not listening, you are carrying on with your own ideas. Right? So how are we, you and I, going to help each other if you won't listen, if you don't want to understand, which is an enormous problem of life. You are going out of this school to enter a tremendously complex, troublesome, miserable world. And you have to face all that. So to face all that you must have the capacity not only academically but the capacity to observe, to learn, to think differently. Right? Now, I will stop talking for the moment. Do you want to ask any questions?
26:04 S: How can a teacher help us to be sensitive?
26:09 K: How can your teacher help...

N: Help him to be sensitive.
26:14 K: How can your teacher help you to be sensitive. Do you know what the word 'sensitive' means?
26:26 S: I think that the word 'sensitivity' implies acute awareness of all the senses.
26:36 K: Right, sir. You have said it correctly, which is, to be aware of all your senses. Are you? You are not. So you want the teacher to help you. Now, how will he be able to help you? Suppose I am your teacher for the moment. I am your teacher now, for the moment. How can I help you to be sensitive? Which means to have all your senses acute, sharp, clear, active. How can I help you? I will show you how I can help you. And will you listen and do it? Not just say, yes, and listen casually and not do it. Will you listen and do it? Will you? Right. First, do you see clearly all the varieties of green in this valley? Different shades of green?
27:57 S: I think I do.

K: You do.
28:00 K: When you see what does it mean to you?
28:04 S: I think that they are something very beautiful. I think that that is something very nice to look at, and I feel very happy after looking at it.
28:13 K: Which means what? That when you see something like all the varieties of green, the beauty of that appeals to you. Right? Now, when you see dirt on the road. What do you do?
28:34 S: I feel disgusted.
28:38 N: He feels disgusted when he sees dirt.
28:40 K: Which means what?
28:44 S: We have done everything.
28:45 K: No, listen carefully to what I am asking. You see dirt on the road. You look at it. You can't help looking at it because you are walking by, and you look at it. What is your reaction to that? You say it is disgust. Why? You see varieties of green in the valley and you say how beautiful that is, and you look at the dirt on the road, and it disgusts you. Why?
29:28 S: We like to see only nice things. We like to see lovely things, like, we don't like to see dirt and all, we like to see beautiful things.
29:35 K: So you only want to see beautiful things and not ugly things – is that it? Is that it? Look at what you have said: you only want to see beautiful things and not see the ugly things, dirty things. Which means what? You are shutting out that which you don't like and that which you like.
30:04 S: Doesn't that mean that your likes and dislikes come in your way of seeing?
30:09 K: That is right, sir. So you have learned something, haven't you now? You are learning something about being sensitive. To watch the beauty of the land, the beauty of the greens, the flowers, the hills, the valleys, the great earth – which contains the ugly things too – so can you look at that as clearly as you see that? And not say, I don't want to see that. The moment you say I don't want to see that, you are making yourself insensitive. I wonder if they understand this. You understand this? So, to be sensitive means to look at everything without saying I like, I don't like. Right? Will you do it? Right. Then you hear music. Some music you don't like, some music you like. Do you like pop music?
31:37 S: I don't like it very much.
31:39 K: What?

N: He doesn't like it very much.
31:43 K: You don't like it very much. Have you heard classical music?
31:49 S: That appeals to me a little more.
31:52 K: That appeals to you a little more. Can you listen to classical music with all your mind, with all your heart, and also listen to something that you don't like. You have to listen to it. But don't say, I don't like it, I won't listen. You understand what I am saying? So that you begin to learn to listen and discern – discern, not I like, I don't like. I wonder if you understand this. This is very important, old boy or old girl, sorry, whichever it is. And that is, we said, see the green, see the dirt, hear, then taste. Do you like only hot food?
32:55 S: No, I don't like it very much.
32:57 K: I am asking all the others. Only rice? Do any of you eat meat?
33:09 Many: Yes, sir.
33:13 K: What does that mean?

N: At home.
33:16 K: Ah. You like to eat meat at home?
33:27 S: Yes.
33:31 K: Do you? Why do you eat meat? Go on, answer me, why do you eat meat?
33:48 S: Because we like the taste.
33:50 K: You like the taste. Do you know what to kill an animal means? You see that cow, that goat? You don't, it is not there now. Somebody kills him and you eat the corpse. What does that mean? Cruelty, doesn't it? Do you want to be cruel? Go on, say yes, I want to be cruel, or not, don't be frightened. When you eat meat, you are killing animals. Do you want to do that?
34:54 S: No, sir.
34:57 K: Then why eat meat?
35:01 S: I don't kill the animals.
35:03 K: I can't hear.

S: I don't kill the animals.
35:07 N: She doesn't directly kill animals.
35:10 K: Your butcher kills the animal and you eat it. What is the difference? You know, I was in Ceylon many years ago. What do they call it now – Sri Lanka. I was there many years ago and a man and a woman came to see me. They were Buddhists. You know what Buddhists are? In Buddhism you are not supposed to kill any animal. So these two people came to see me, and they said we have a great problem, please help us to solve it. In Buddhism, they said, we are very good Buddhists, and we change our butcher every week. You understand? Have you understood what I said? So we don't take the karma of that, the butcher takes the karma of that. Have you understood what I have said? But that is not our problem, he said. Our problem is, we like to eat eggs, but we kill the embryo when we open the egg. That is our problem. We don't mind eating meat because it is killed by somebody else, but when we eat an egg we are directly killing it. You have understood? So, why do you eat meat? Why don't you ask for meat in this valley, in Rishi Valley?
37:15 S: We would like to, but they don't give us.
37:17 K: What?
37:20 N: They won't give us here.
37:23 K: You would like to have it here?
37:26 S: I don't mind.

K: What do you mean you don't mind?
37:30 K: You would like to have it here.

S: Yes, sir.
37:33 K: Did you hear what I said previously?
37:38 S: If you are killing an animal...
37:42 K: Good. You say, killing an animal is equal to killing a plant, cabbage. Is it? Think it out, don't be prejudiced, think it out. Killing an animal – goat, chicken, a cow, whatever it is that you eat at home, and killing brinjal, methi, beans, do you put those two on the same level?
38:23 S: Both don't express their feelings.
38:31 K: I can't hear.
38:33 S: Both don't express their feelings.
38:38 N: He says, both don't express their feelings.
38:43 K: What are you talking about? Have you understood what I said? Cow, goat, chicken, pig, you eat, and also you eat cabbage. What vegetables, tell me, quick.
39:09 S: Carrots.
39:10 K: Carrots, beans, potatoes, you put those two on the same level? Both contain life. This is the least and that is the most. So which would you kill? If you had to kill the goat, the chicken, the cow, the pig, would you kill them and eat them? So why be vegetarians in this school and go back home and kill animals? You see, that is insensitivity. You understand that? Do you understand what I am saying? That is, to be vegetarian, don't kill here, don't eat meat here, and go home and eat meat. Look what you are doing. You are leading a double life, a hypocritical life. You are very pious, you don't kill anything, you are gentle, and you go home and become violent.
40:42 S: We don't eat it at school. We don't eat meat at school because it is the rule of the school. So when we go home we eat meat.
40:55 K: I know old boy, did you hear what I said?
40:58 S: Yes, you said that you are being hypocritical not eating here and going home and eating.
41:03 K: I said, here you don't eat meat, and you go home and eat meat.
41:09 S: We don't eat meat here because of that.
41:11 K: No, I know. Here they say please don't kill, and you go home and kill. So what does that mean?
41:24 S: If they allow us to eat meat then we will eat meat.
41:27 K: Old boy, I am asking you a question. Answer my question first. And then I will answer your question.
41:34 N: He doesn't eat meat but he is speaking for others.
41:36 K: I know you are speaking for others. What happens? One place you eat meat, another place you don't eat meat. What is happening to your mind?
41:52 S: I can't say anything.

K: What?
41:55 N: He says, he can't say anything because he is not involved in this.
42:01 K: Leave meat alone. You say one thing here and do something else at your home.
42:07 S: I am not saying that, sir. (inaudible)
42:17 K: You come over here. What are you trying to say?
42:32 S: If I was allowed I would be eating meat, I would not be eating vegetables, if I had been allowed. But I am not allowed so I eat the vegetables here.
42:40 K: So think it out carefully. You are not allowed to eat meat here, and when you go home you can eat meat. So what are you doing?
42:51 K: You are under pressure not to eat here?

S: Yes.
42:54 K: And when the pressure is off, you become violent.
42:59 S: Yes.
43:01 K: So what does that mean? Think it out. Come on, think it out. Here you are gentle, not allowed to eat meat, you are told, please be kind to animals, protect animals, look after them, look after the trees, and you go home and you do everything opposite. What does that make you, in life?
43:36 S: A double image.

K: Yes.
43:39 K: That is, here you say one thing, go home and say something else. What does that make you?
43:49 S: You become insensitive.

K: Insensitive. And what else?
43:52 S: And a hypocrite.

K: That is just it.
43:55 K: It makes you into a hypocrite. Here you say, I must not eat meat.
44:04 S: We don't say we must not eat. We do not say we must not eat. We would like to eat.
44:12 K: No, the rule is Rishi Valley doesn't eat meat.
44:16 S: Yes, sir. But if we are allowed to eat meat, we would be ready to eat meat. That is the main point. So you can't be called hypocritical because your opinion still stands that you like to eat meat.
44:35 S: You can't call it hypocritical because of the fact he eats meat, I eat meat. I am eating meat at my house. I want to eat meat here, but I am not allowed. So it is not the question that I am living a double life.
44:47 K: Oh yes, you are.
44:49 S: It is because it is forced on me here.
44:51 K: Ah. They say before you come here, this school is vegetarian. This school says we don't eat meat. You accept that.
45:06 S: Maybe that is a sacrifice for the...
45:07 K: Ah, old boy, you accept that. You accept when you come here, that you won't eat meat. It is your own voluntary admission.
45:19 S: How do you know that he feels the same way?
45:21 K: What?
45:22 S: How do you know that he feels the same way?
45:25 K: What do you mean feels the same way?
45:31 S: How do you know that he feels just as the school does.
45:34 K: The school says before you come here that you are going to be a non-meat eating person. Under those conditions you come here. You accept that condition. Because you want a certain type of education, etc. And you go home and you eat meat.
46:03 S: It doesn't mean that he doesn't like to eat meat. He still likes to eat meat but he is not allowed to eat.
46:09 K: All right, still you like to eat meat. If you could have it here, you would have it. But here they say, don't have it. Now, put it the other way. Here they say one thing, and you go home and do something else opposite to this. Right? What happens when you say one thing here, and at home something else.
46:41 S: All right, I am not saying that I don't like to eat meat.
46:44 K: I am not talking about eating meat for the moment.
46:50 S: That is the example we are talking about. I am not saying that I don't like to eat meat.
46:53 K: I am sorry, sir.

S: We are forced not to eat.
46:56 K: I understand that. I have changed the meat. I have moved away from meat. I am saying, here you say one thing, and at home, you say something else quite different.
47:13 S: That would be hypocrisy.

K: That is all I am saying.
47:17 K: Why doesn't this apply here?
47:21 S: That doesn't apply to meat.
47:24 K: What?

S: Doesn't apply to meat, he says.
47:26 K: Why not?
47:31 S: Because I don't believe in killing.

K: I can't hear.
47:34 S: Here they don't believe in killing. But at home, they do believe.
47:46 K: That is just what I am saying. Here you believe one thing, and go home believe something else.
47:54 S: He believes that he wants to eat meat. He wants to eat meat both times: he wants to eat meat in school and he wants to eat meat outside,
48:02 S: but he is not allowed to.

K: Of course.
48:06 K: Are you all lawyers? Turning white into black, black into white?
48:21 S: But when you are growing in a certain environment it is very difficult to change suddenly.
48:27 K: So according to pressure of environment, you yield. Somebody says to you, join the army, and you yield. Somebody says to you, become an engineer, and you say all right, I will be an engineer. Therefore you are just like a weathercock – you know?
48:53 S: But if they are all engineers in your family...
49:04 K: What?

S: If everybody is an engineer in your family, you tend to become an engineer.
49:09 K: That is, if in your family you are all monkeys you also become a monkey?
49:25 S: I am sure the people felt good while eating the meat. They don't feel it when they are eating it, that they are being cruel.
49:35 K: He asked me what it is to be sensitive. To be sensitive means to be aware of what you are doing, killing and all the implications of it, violence, and here you pretend – pretend – not to be violent. So that makes you insensitive. Right, sir? Either you say, I am not going to eat meat because it implies killing. Look, I have been in England from the age of twelve, thirteen, in England, in France, in Italy, in America, and I have never touched meat, never.
50:30 S: Sir, you may be an exception.
50:31 K: Ah, wait. I haven't finished my sentence. And I was under pressure. I used to be invited by great a many people, very smart, so on, actors and all kinds of people. I said I don't eat meat. Because I don't believe in it, I don't want to kill. But I must kill the vegetable, so I kill the least thing. Right?
51:19 S: Does that mean that if you had some food which was not living at all...
51:29 S: If you had some food that was not living at all, that didn't live...
51:43 K: You will all make very clever lawyers, but you don't get much further.
51:52 S: Does that mean all people who eat meat are insensitive.
51:56 K: Yes, sir.
51:57 S: I tend to disagree.
52:01 S: He disagrees.
52:02 K: Why? When you disagree, tell me why you disagree.
52:10 S: In some cases, when the environment is harsh...
52:16 K: Of course, if you are living in the polar regions, you have to eat meat, but you are not living in the polar regions. So you asked me what it is to be sensitive. I said, sensitive implies to be aware of your environment, of the hills, of the greens – aware, to watch, to listen. And if you say, I am only used to eating meat, and I won't eating anything else, you become insensitive. Sensitivity means cultivating all your senses: your cruelty to animals, all that is implied.
53:16 S: You say we are cruel by eating meat. You are not being cruel to something which is dead.
53:27 K: Come over here.
53:38 S: You needn't have to be cruel because you are not being cruel to something which is dead.
53:45 K: You are not cruel because it is something that is dead. But you kill the animal first and make him die.
53:57 S: But I don't kill it.
54:00 K: You don't kill it, but somebody else kills it, so you are supporting cruelty. Right?

S: Yes, sir.

K: Yes.
54:13 S: I think those who do eat meat, if you feel it is being cruel...
54:19 K: Ah, not I feel. Look at it, examine it. Not what I feel. Look, I am as clever as you are. Now, it is half past ten. We will meet again day after tomorrow. Now shall we sit quietly for a while? Really quietly. Without moving. Settle down comfortably. Sit quietly, absolutely quietly with your eyes closed, and don't move your eyeballs, keep them very still and sit very quietly.
56:04 K: All right, sirs. See you day after tomorrow.
56:10 S: Everyone gave back your Namaste this time.