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RV82DS2 - Discipline means to learn
Rishi Valley, India - 13 December 1982
Discussion with Students 2



0:22 K: What shall we talk about? Student: Sir, could we continue where we left off last time?
0:31 K: Where did I leave off?

S: The de-conditioning of the brain.
0:38 K: Are you really interested in it? Or you just want to talk about it, just for the fun of it?
0:51 All right, sir, let’s talk about it, shall we? You know what the brain is, don’t you? Most of you must have, in your biological study, you must have been told what the brain is.
1:15 Apparently, the brain is the most important part of the body, the heart and the liver are the most important – what?
1:31 G. Narayan: Organs.
1:34 K: Are organs. Most important organs – Hello, General! – of the body.
1:52 You know what the various functions of these three are. But the brain is an extraordinary instrument.
2:07 It is now limited. It now only functions... we only use a very, very small part of the brain. We don’t use all of the brain. And our brain has evolved from the ape till we are so-called well-educated, sophisticated human beings.
2:40 Is that clear? Right?
2:46 S: Has the brain really evolved from the ape?
2:53 GN: Has the brain really evolved from the ape?
2:57 K: That’s what the scientists say. You can accept that, or you can accept what the fundamentalists in the Christian world say, that man was created 4,500 years ago by God.
3:21 Either you can accept that, or the scientific theory, or you can invent your own. Right?
3:33 But if you invent your own, you have to be very careful that it can stand logical investigation of it.
3:47 Otherwise, you can say my brain is the most important... some kind of fancy, romantic thing you can make out of it. But from what the scientists, biologists and the archaeologists have said, that man has evolved as he is now, standing on two feet, about 40,000 years ago.
4:16 And our brain has evolved for much longer period.
4:28 That’s a fact. That’s what the scientists say. I rather think they are right. For myself, I think man evolved from the ape.
4:40 My grandfather was not quite the ape, probably his great-grandfather was.
4:52 And this brain has evolved, grown, matured, has learnt a great deal, has had immense experience.
5:09 Again, that’s a fact. And during all these 40 centuries it has always been afraid, afraid of the physical world, living in the forest, the tigers and so on – physical danger.
5:38 Then also there was the psychological dangers, the inward dangers, of which there’s fear, pleasure, pain, sorrow, anxiety, loneliness, so on.
6:01 We are all educated. I don’t quite know what it means.
6:13 Here you’re all being educated to become what? Greater monkeys? Glorified clerks?
6:28 Glorified – what, bureaucrats? So you are being educated to become something, to earn a livelihood, to marry, to have a house and to have a job, to maintain your family and so on.
6:58 So, you go to the office or to the factory or if you are interested in carpentry.
7:08 For the rest of your life from nine o’clock to five o’clock, go to the office day after day, day after day, month after month, year after year till you die.
7:23 That’s your life. Right? Would you agree to that? You may have a weekend holiday or a month holiday, but the moment you get a job, for the next fifty years or more you become a slave to your job. Right?
7:52 That’s what you are all going to be, unfortunately.
8:00 Agree to this? What? Would you agree to this?
8:07 S: Yes, sir.
8:08 K: So, like a computer – you know what a computer is?
8:15 S: Yes, sir.

K: Right? Do you know? A computer is an electronic machine which is programmed. You know what ‘programmed’ is?
8:34 A professor talks to it, programs it, as it is called, so that the computer knows what the professor knows.
8:50 It is put on a tape or whatever they do, and it can repeat what the professor has told the machine about mathematics.
9:02 Is that clear? That’s what a computer is. And they are trying to build a computer which will be almost like the human brain.
9:18 Already they have computers that can invent. You understand all this? The mother computer may be very good, but the next generation computer is still better than the mother and so on, so on, so on.
9:39 They are working at it furiously to bring about a computer which has ultra-mechanical intelligence.
9:51 You understand all this? Ultra-mechanical intelligence which can think much more rapidly than human beings, calculate much faster than human beings, in a second, what a human brain may take a couple of months, and so on.
10:16 So the computer is programmed. Is that clear? You are also programmed. You have been programmed for the last 5,000 years as a Hindu.
10:35 Right? You’ve been programmed as a Muslim within the last 14,000 years Oh, no. What is it? Mohammed, what, 6000?
10:54 600 A.D., therefore, about what? 1400 years.
11:02 And the Buddhist for the last 2,500 years, he has been programmed to be a Buddhist.
11:12 So you are all programmed. So you are all functioning mechanically. Right? When you study engineering, which requires mathematics and so on, your study is programming you to become an engineer.
11:38 Right? Do you see this? So your brain is programmed to think that you are a Hindu or an Arab or a Jew or as a Catholic. Right?
11:59 So your brain is mechanical.
12:08 The computer then is a far better instrument.
12:16 But, of course, there is a great deal of difference between a machine and the brain. Now, what makes the brain deteriorate? That’s what your question is. Right? Are you interested in all this? Grown up boys and... Yes?
12:40 S: You made a statement just before this, that the computer is as good as the brain.
12:48 That the computer is better than the brain.
12:51 K: I wish you would speak proper, slow. Would you speak slowly? Not Tamilian or Telugu English.
13:04 S: You just said that the computer was better than the brain.
13:09 K: I said they are trying to make a computer equal or better than the brain.
13:16 They are trying to manufacture it. I didn’t say there is. Japanese government, the American IBM and other companies, are pouring millions of dollars to discover or to invent or to bring about a computer that has the quality of the brain.
13:45 They may succeed and they may not succeed. Right? But the fact remains that our brain is programmed.
13:59 When you say, ‘I am B.A.,’ you are programmed. Right? When you say, ‘I’m in the Indian Administrative Service,’ you are being programmed.
14:19 Now, the question you asked, if I can repeat it rightly, what are the factors that bring about the deterioration of the brain?
14:40 And can these factors be stopped, so that the brain can continue till it is worn out by long age?
14:56 What will keep the brain young, fresh?
15:06 Now, let’s first find out what are the factors that bring about deterioration of the brain.
15:15 Right? What do you think are the factors?
15:24 S: Memory.
15:28 K: Memory. The gentleman says one of the factors that makes the brain deteriorate, is memory.
15:41 Without memory, what would you be?
15:52 What would you do if you had no memory at all?
15:58 S: A robot?
16:04 GN: He’ll be a robot.
16:06 K: No, robots are pretty intelligent.
16:11 S: You will make your mistakes again and again. If you make a mistake, you will repeat the mistake over and over again.
16:17 K: Yes, that’s right. Go on, what would happen if you had no memory at all?
16:26 S: You’d destroy yourself.
16:27 K: No, what happens to you? You don’t.
16:31 S: But eventually you will.
16:33 K: You would be in a state of – what? No memory.
16:40 S: You wouldn’t know anything. You wouldn’t know what’s happening.
16:46 S: She says, you wouldn’t know what’s happening.
16:49 K: You wouldn’t know what is happening, you wouldn’t feel anything. Right?
16:57 You would be just – a blank wall. Probably, you would eat. The body has its own function, its own intelligence. So you would carry on, but no thought, no feeling, just...
17:17 I saw in America when I was there last year or this year, a factory in Japan.
17:31 You know the Honda car?
17:34 S: Yes, sir.
17:37 K: My word! All right. They were manufacturing a Honda car. All the workmen were in white aprons and white gloves, and there was a computer and a robot.
18:00 You know what a robot is? The computer was telling the robot what to do and the robot was building the Honda car.
18:13 When the robot made a mistake, the computer stopped the robot, told him what to do, how to bolt or screw the nut properly, and it went after, it kept this going.
18:28 And the workmen, Japanese workmen with white gloves, wandered around looking at the thing.
18:43 So, our brain without memory would be like a vegetable, a non-active, unaware, blind body.
19:03 So, is that one of the factors of deterioration?
19:16 S: If you didn’t have memory, you would not do anything.
19:19 K: That’s right, sir. I said that. Is that one of the reasons why the brain deteriorates?
19:30 S: It’s not that we don’t have memory, it’s that our memory is deteriorating. Probably, that is the cause...

K: Yes, sir, all right. So, is that one of the factors, one of the causes of why the brain deteriorates?
19:46 S: I don’t think so.
19:49 K: You don’t think so. Quite right, neither do I. So find out what are the other causes.
19:58 S: Sir, as I see it, due to memory, in our brain arise various contradictions.
20:10 K: Yes, sir.
20:14 S: And the contradictions which arise in our brain are the causes for the deterioration of the brain.
20:23 K: Are you saying – what?
20:25 GN: He says contradictions arise, partly due to memory, and that’s why the brain deteriorates.
20:32 K: What are contradictions? What do you call contradiction? You wanted to... Sir, don’t go to sleep.
20:45 S: I’m not sleeping.

K: But you are keeping quiet. I don’t know whether you are asleep or awake. So, if I may point out, this gentleman says one of the factors of deterioration of the brain is...
21:04 S:...contradiction.

K: Contradiction. What do you mean by contradiction?
21:14 GN: When you have two opposite thoughts.
21:18 K: When you have two opposing thoughts.
21:28 Is that one of the causes of deterioration – contradiction?
21:37 Contradiction means, also, say one thing and do something else.
21:48 Think one thing and act quite the opposite of what you think.
21:56 Right? What does that indicate?
22:05 I say one thing and do quite the opposite.
22:14 I think one thing and act totally differently from what I think.
22:20 S: It means that you do not have the strength to follow up your thought.
22:24 K: No, no. I am not asking strength. See what happens. When there is contradiction in you, what happens?
22:35 S: You are thrown off-balance.
22:39 K: No. Don’t use those words. Just look at it, carefully. What happens? Look at yourself. When you say one thing and do another, do something totally different.
23:04 S: You can’t trust yourself.
23:07 K: You can’t trust yourself. Quite right.
23:14 And those are all the grown up people there. There’s a boy who says, ‘You can’t trust yourself.’ What does that mean?
23:26 S: Sir, you become a hypocrite.
23:30 K: That’s right. You become a hypocrite. You can’t trust yourself. What next?
23:39 S: In moments of anger you don’t think, you just act.
23:44 K: You just act. You don’t think, but you act. I want you to move along. Go on.
23:50 S: You are becoming like a computer. You’re not thinking what you’re doing.
23:54 K: The computer thinks, Old Boy.
23:57 S: But, sir, it’s programmed.

K: So are you.
24:06 When you say, ‘I’m B.A., or M.A.,’ you have been programmed.
24:13 When you say, ‘I am a Hindu, I am a Muslim, I am a Christian,’ those statements indicate that you have been programmed.
24:27 So, what? I wish it would rain. Go on. You haven’t touched the root of it. Please, go on. Look, I say I must love, and I hate.
24:55 I must be generous but I am not generous. What does that indicate – not indicate – what is the result of that?
25:09 As the boy pointed out, I’m a hypocrite, right?
25:14 S: Conflict.

GN: Conflict, he says.
25:17 K: That’s right. At last. Taken a long time, haven’t you?
25:25 Now, one of the causes, perhaps the major cause of the deterioration of the brain, is conflict.
25:37 Would you agree to all that? Yes? Yes, sir?
25:45 S: Sir, I agree that it is perhaps one of the causes.
25:49 K: I said, ‘One.’ I said it may be the major. I’m very careful in my usage of… I said either one, or the major cause of deterioration – conflict.
26:08 Are you in conflict?
26:15 Are you in conflict, any of you?
26:28 S: I said almost always you think of doing something but do exactly the opposite.

K: I can’t hear.
26:35 Come over here. Yes. She’s going to tell me. Now, you tell me.
26:45 S: I said almost always you think something and do something else.
26:49 K: Yes, but what does that result in?
26:51 S: I get very afraid when I do such things.
26:54 K: And as he pointed out, you are in conflict, aren’t you? Now we are asking, is that one of the factors of the deterioration of brain?
27:09 Like an engine, internal combustion machine, when it is well-oiled, smoothly running, it can go on indefinitely.
27:23 But when there is a friction, then it begins to wear itself out.
27:32 Agree? Now, so where there is conflict there is great friction in the brain, and so one of the reasons for the deterioration of the brain is conflict, friction, strain. Right? Agree to this?
27:56 Are you all under strain, friction, conflict? Of course, you are.
28:09 S: Yes, we are.
28:13 K: You are in conflict? At your age?
28:23 You are enjoying yourself, you are not in conflict, Old Boy!
28:31 Only those so-called educated people who don’t enjoy, who don’t look at the sky, who are not curious, who don’t look at a trail of ants going along the road, those are in conflict.
28:52 S: In spite of looking at the sky and the clouds and the ants, and the trees, we still are in conflict.
28:58 S: At that moment you are not.
29:01 K: At the moment you are not, but I am saying, are you in conflict?
29:09 S: Sometimes.

K: Sometimes. When?
29:22 S: I don’t know.
29:26 K: When are you in conflict?
29:32 S: When you are angry.

K: Go on. Good.
29:35 S: When you’re angry and you want to slap someone.
29:39 K: When you want to slap someone. You come over here. Come on.
29:54 So, when you get angry, when you want to slap someone, when you can’t pass your exams.
30:06 When the teacher scolds you. I hope he doesn’t. Does he scold you?

S: No.
30:13 K: I’m delighted. So, when somebody scolds you, when you get angry, when you want to slap somebody, what are the other reasons that bring about conflict, struggle?
30:32 S: When you want revenge.

K: When you want revenge. Go on. By Jove! He only thinks along that line. Think along another line.
30:47 S: If you are not able to think in a logical fashion and reason out, you will be in conflict.

K: You may think logically – He says if you don’t think logically, you will be in conflict, right?
31:00 Even if you think logically, you may be in conflict. I may think very logically, ‘I must not be greedy, I must not be angry, I must not’ and so on, but I am angry.
31:15 So there is conflict even though I think logically.
31:24 S: Sir, what makes you in conflict?
31:30 K: I am asking you. What brings about conflict? You are asking? Right? They said just now – contradiction. That is, say one thing, do another.
31:47 Clear? That brings conflict, one of the conflicts. So, as I said, a machine, well-oiled, perfectly balanced, good material, well-oiled and looked after, that machine can go on for years and years.
32:16 And the human brain is also a machine. So when it is in conflict, it’s like putting sand into a machine.
32:27 Then it can’t run properly. You understand? So, if you are in conflict, one of the reasons of deterioration of the brain is conflict. Right, sir? Are you?
32:48 S: Am I in conflict? Yes.
32:51 K: So your brain is deteriorating.

S: Yes.
32:54 K: Yes. I’m glad you acknowledge that. You may get B.A., M.A. – I don’t know why, but there it is.
33:09 And what’s the point of it? If you are in conflict and your brain is deteriorating, what are you doing?
33:25 S: You are destroying yourself.

K: Yes. Why do you want to destroy yourself?
33:36 S: I don’t want to.
33:37 K: Why don’t you then stop being in conflict?
33:43 S: How do I stop being in conflict?

K: Now, you have asked a question. How do I stop, end, put an end to conflict? Is that it?
33:57 When you ask how, what does that mean? Now, think out carefully. You think out carefully. When he says, ‘How?’ what does that word mean?
34:14 K: Sir, sir, no. Just listen to me first. When you use the word ‘how,’ what does that word mean?
34:25 S: You want to find a method.
34:29 K: Stop there! Stop there! What do you mean by a method?

S: A solution.
34:36 K: No, no, method.
34:45 S: The way to do it.
34:50 K: Now, the way to do it, what does that mean? Follow it up. What does that mean? Think, sir. Go on, think clearly.
34:58 S: Sir, he wants help.

K: Help. From whom?
35:03 S: From his brain?
35:07 K: When you say, ‘How?’ it means a system, doesn’t it? ‘How am I to climb the mountain?’ Then if you say, ‘How am I to climb Everest, you must have certain kind of shoes and so on, so on, so on.
35:25 That means you have a system, a method, a plan, according to which you act.
35:37 Right?

S: Right, sir.
35:39 K: Now, what does that do? No, listen to what I’m saying. What does a system do to your brain?
35:51 S: You again go on the surface. You try and do it again and again and stay out of conflict, so again…
35:56 K: Which is again – that’s it. When you do repeat over and over again, your brain is mechanical.
36:06 S: If you try the system, you’re getting into another system.
36:09 K: That’s it. So, system... You haven’t understood what I am saying. Listen, first. When I follow a system, a method, I’m repeating it over and over again, am I not?
36:25 Which means what? Wait, wait! Which means what? That I’m becoming more and more mechanical.
36:34 S: You are deteriorating again.

K: That’s it. When the brain becomes more and more mechanical, it’s again deteriorating.
36:45 So conflict, a mechanical way of living, saying, ‘Yes, I’m a Hindu, I’m a Hindu, I’m a Hindu,’ or ‘I’m an Arab, Jew,’ you follow?
37:03 Any repetitive verbal statement or repetitive action is another factor of deterioration of the brain.
37:16 No. Do you understand that? Now, proceed.
37:19 S: Does it mean that the deterioration of the brain is inevitable?
37:26 K: It is inevitable if you are mechanical, if there is conflict in your life.
37:38 S: Does that mean there is another solution?
37:40 K: Not another solution. Stop this. Stop being mechanical, then you are out of it. Then find out if you can live without conflict. If you do, then you are out of it. Then your brain is not deteriorating. You understand this, don’t you? Now, what will you do to find out if you can live without conflict?
38:09 S: I stop being in conflict whenever I can?
38:13 K: No. Find out what are the causes of conflict. Suppose I have got tummy ache. I have got tummy ache because I eat the wrong food. If I stop eating the wrong food, I have no tummy ache. So, I have to find out what are the causes of conflict and if I can remove the causes the conflict ends.
38:39 And we say one of the causes of conflict is contradiction: saying one thing, doing another, believing in God and killing people, believing that you must be a great saint and being very worldly.
38:59 So, where there is contradiction, opposition, contrary statements, contrary way of living, there must be conflict, which means there must be conflict where there is division.
39:17 So find out if your life is free of division.
39:25 You understand what I’m saying? When a man says he’s an Arab and the other man says he is a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu, Buddhist, there is conflict between them.
39:37 When I say I am a nationalist, I am opposed to the nationalists of another country.
39:45 So, don’t be a nationalist. You understand? All the nonsense about the flag, is nonsense. Agree?

S: Yes.
39:58 K: Will you live that way?

S: I hope so.
40:02 K: Not ‘hope so?’ You have to do it! If you want your brain to be extraordinarily alive, fresh, you have to do that.
40:17 Will you do it after your examination? Not before your examination. Will you end your conflicts? Otherwise your brain deteriorates.
40:38 S: Sir, does competition bring about deterioration?
40:41 K: Yes, sir. No, the constant repetition, to repeat over and over again, ‘I’m a Jew, I’m an Arab, I’m a Hindu, I am this, I am that,’ which is like a gramophone record, playing the same tune over and over again, that’s wearing out the brain.
41:05 S: But in competitions you feel nervous before an exam, just because you will come last...

K: That’s right.
41:13 Unfortunately, examinations apparently are necessary.
41:21 Either you have examination at the end of your school career, and so no exams until you leave, which would be marvellous.
41:34 You understand what I’m saying? I’m in the eighth class, suppose I’m in the eighth class, the teacher sees that I am studying properly.
41:45 If he knows that I am studying properly, why should he examine, have examinations? You follow?
41:53 So, I may have to have examinations when I leave school, but it’s long ahead.
42:03 That’s another matter. Have we understood this, that where there is conflict of any kind, the brain must deteriorate.
42:15 S: The whole world is full of conflict.
42:19 K: You don’t have to make a mouth about it.
42:25 S: Everywhere you see there’s conflict.
42:27 K: Everywhere you see it, I agree. Your father, your mother have conflicts, society has conflict, the government is in conflict, the priest in Tirupati is in conflict, he wants more money, and all the rest of it.
42:49 So, practically every human being is in conflict.
42:57 So find out if you can live without conflict. That requires a great deal of intelligence.
43:06 S: But, sir, when I see all this conflict, I get afraid. I get very scared when I see all this conflict.
43:14 K: When you see all this conflict, she says, she gets scared.
43:21 If you’re scared, that’s another form of conflict, isn’t it?
43:36 So, one of the factors now we have found, there is conflict.
43:43 Now, what is the second factor?
43:57 S: When you do something without thinking at all?
44:01 K: When you do something without thinking. Is that another factor of deterioration? That’s what you are all doing. Agree?

S: Yes.
44:15 K: You don’t think, you go and do something. You don’t think why you should become an engineer, why you should become a clerk, why you should join the navy or the army, or this or that.
44:33 You don’t think, you say, ‘Well, I like it, I’ll go and do it.’ S: If you don’t do it, what can you do?
44:42 K: If you don’t do it, what can you do? That’s a good question. Why don’t these chaps over there put any of these questions?
44:55 If you don’t do anything, what can you do?
45:03 S: If you don’t do anything, you can’t live.
45:06 GN: If you don’t do anything, you can’t live.
45:10 K: There you are, there’s your answer.
45:16 S: Sir, in that case, you are trying to live in a certain way. In other words, you are somehow trying to live.
45:25 K: Anyhow you are trying to live?

S: Yes.
45:27 K: Therefore, you live in conflict.
45:33 S: If you are going to climb Everest, you need heavy boots.
45:44 But then if you say you are not going to wear heavy boots, then you are dying.
45:51 K: I can’t understand the Tamilian or Telugu English.
45:55 GN: He says, if you want to climb Everest, you must wear heavy boots. And if you don’t wear heavy boots and try to climb, you will die.
46:06 K: I’m asking, what is another factor of the deterioration of the brain?
46:14 We said conflict. What is the other factor?
46:16 S: We are trying to join the society. We are joining the society which is deteriorating. So we are deteriorating.

K: Yes.
46:27 S: So, does it mean if we stay out of society, we will not deteriorate?
46:33 K: Are you sure society is deteriorating?
46:37 S: Yes, because society has conflict.
46:40 K: Do you know it, or just logically, verbally you have stated it?
46:45 S: When you say ‘society,’ it means you and him.
46:52 K: Yes. You see, go on. I’m glad, you’re all waking up.
47:04 Have you told me what’s this other factor of deterioration?
47:18 S: It is the conditioning of the brain. The brain being programmed, it deteriorates.
47:23 GN: He says it is the conditioning of the brain, the brain is programmed, and that’s why it deteriorates.
47:32 K: Have you understood that? As my brain is programmed to be a Muslim, to be a Hindu, to become a B.A. or get to be a doctor and so on, the very programming is another factor of deterioration.
47:53 Would you agree to that? See, that means you are completely deteriorating, because you are all programmed.
48:09 You are half-living, aren’t you?
48:16 GN: You are half-living because you are programmed.
48:20 S: Sir, but as I see it, the brain is based on experience.
48:28 The brain relies on experience. And we’ve been programmed since we began, since Adam and Eve.
48:39 So how are you going to...?
48:42 GN: He says the brain depends on experience and we have been programmed since we are born, so what do we do?

S: Not born. Since the origin.
48:55 K: I am being programmed from the moment I am born: my grandmother, my mother, my father, people around me say, ‘You must, you must not, you are this, you are that.’ I am being programmed.

S: It’s not only when I am born.
49:11 It’s the origin of mankind, since then.
49:15 GN: He says from the origin of mankind...
49:18 K: Yes, sir. I said that, Old Boy. I said that at the beginning.
49:23 S: So you are going to negate all that was passed, the origin? If you are going to decondition or deprogram, you will be negating the past, right from the very origin.
49:38 GN: He says, if you want to decondition, can you negate the whole past?
49:44 K: Yes, sir. All right, I’ve got your question. Are you saying, I have been programmed for 40,000 years, and as long as I am living in the world of programs, the brain must deteriorate. Right?
50:10 Now, can’t you get out of it?
50:19 No, this is too serious a question to go into because it requires a great deal of enquiry, questioning, asking, pushing.
50:30 S: Is fear another form of conditioning?
50:38 K: Yes, I understand. You are unconditioned from one form and fall into another form?
50:47 S: No, I mean deteriorating.
50:49 K: Yes, of course, that’s what we said.
50:54 S: Sir, but then how did the mind progress or how did it evolve? Why is it that only now the mind is beginning to destroy itself or be conditioned?

K: Probably, the moment it has accumulated knowledge through experience, that very beginning is the deteriorating factor.
51:19 I won’t discuss this because it is much too complex.
51:26 S: Sir, if you are programmed, are you just like a computer? If you are programmed, are you just like a computer?
51:42 K: Nearly, I said. Nearly.
51:49 Is that enough for now?
51:55 S: I think we should go on.
51:58 K: You should go on. Who should go on? I should go on or you should go on?

S: No, I said ‘we.’ K: You see, that’s what you are all used to.
52:09 Somebody else tells you what to do.
52:12 S: I didn’t say ‘you,’ I said ‘we.’

K: Then why don’t you go on?
52:28 S: Excuse me, sir, how can a computer be programmed?
52:41 K: How can a computer be programmed? I told you.
52:46 S: How can a carpenter be programmed?
52:48 K: Carpenter?
53:08 Have you worked on a piece of wood?
53:15 Have you done anything with your hands?
53:18 S: Yes, sir.

K: What have you done?
53:22 S: Sir, in pottery, we have done pots.
53:27 K: You have done pottery. What else?
53:31 S: We have communicated.
53:33 K: What else have you done – with your hands?
53:36 S: Carpentry.

K: Carpentry? What else?
53:41 S: Painting.

K: Painting. Tell me some more.
53:45 S: Writing.
53:50 S: Leather work.
53:51 K: Leather work. Wood, leather, painting. Have you done any gardening?

S: Yes, sir.
53:59 K: Digged in the earth? Have you milked a cow?
54:05 S: No, sir.
54:08 K: Have any of you milked a cow?

S: Yes, sir.
54:11 K: For how long?
54:18 S: Sir, have you milked a cow?
54:21 K: Have I? Have I milked a cow? Yes.
54:25 S: How long?
54:40 K: I milked a cow in California for about six months, every day, morning and evening.
54:49 Others were doing it, too, but I was doing it, until I got what they call cow fever, which meant all my face swelled.
55:00 So I had to stop. I did gardening, painted walls, helped to build a house.
55:14 S: Sir, when you milked the cow, were you afraid of cow fever? When you milked the cow, you milked it for your life, when you wanted milk.
55:36 GN: When you milked the cow, were you afraid of the cow fever?
55:40 K: No, I got it, after I got it, I stopped milking the cow.
55:48 I don’t know what you are talking about.
55:50 S: He’s saying, did you milk the cow for drinking milk yourself or for other things?

K: No, we all drank the milk.
56:04 And I also played tennis. I played golf. Do you know what golf is? I was very good at it. So go on, what else would you like?
56:17 S: Sir, how does a human brain get programmed?
56:20 K: How does a human brain get programmed? When you repeat you are a Muslim, you are programmed.
56:28 S: What makes you repeat?
56:30 K: What makes you? Because your mother has told you, your father has told you, your grandmother told you that you are a Muslim.
56:38 S: So you have to repeat it.

K: Yes, that’s all.
56:45 S: Does education make us programmed in any way?
56:51 K: Yes sir, you are being educated to be glorified monkeys.
56:58 S: Then why do we educate ourselves?

K: Ask that. Ask it. And you will inevitably say, ‘To earn money.’ Which is what everybody is doing.
57:16 So, I think it is time to stop, it’s half past ten. That fellow wants me to go on, but he won’t go on.
57:36 Well, that’s enough, isn’t it? Enough, sir?
57:44 Or are you escaping from your class?
57:51 We can sit here, have some fun. Is that what you want to do?
58:08 Let’s sit quietly for a minute, shall we? Sit quietly, sit properly. That’s better.
58:22 Close your eyes. Let’s sit very quietly, and see...
58:30 Watch what you are thinking about, will you?
59:37 Bye, sirs.