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SA65D7 - Only a fresh mind can create a new society
Saanen, Switzerland - 10 August 1965
Public Discussion 7



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s seventh public discussion in Saanen, 1965.
0:10 Krishnamurti: As this is the last discussion, what shall we talk over together this morning?
0:25 Questioner: (Inaudible)… it seems very important to me, so I’m afraid I missed a very important point.
0:34 Yesterday you spoke about the… (inaudible) of negation… (inaudible) movement that arises…
0:47 (inaudible) and now my question is… (inaudible)?
1:29 K: I’m afraid I didn’t quite hear it, but what I heard was to the effect that to observe in the state of negation in which there is a positive movement - is that what you mean?
2:01 Is that the question?
2:02 Q: No, that’s not the question.
2:04 K: I’m afraid I couldn’t hear it.
2:06 Q: (Inaudible).
2:16 The one point I couldn’t follow inside was about what you said about the meeting place…
2:25 K: Of the positive and the negative?
2:27 Q: Yes, and that’s why I… (inaudible).
2:29 K: I see. I see.
2:32 Q: (Inaudible).
2:50 K: Really, I think, you know, I can’t go over it again.
3:01 We said something yesterday with regard to how to observe, what it is to perceive, see or listen.
3:18 I can only put it in different words and not in the same words. So the question is: can one look with the movement of…
3:36 Q: Can one look with the eyes of the movement? We don’t mention names but for me… (inaudible) but for me it’s that movement is peace and love…
3:56 K: Ah, ah, yes.
3:57 Q: …that naturally comes out of silence… (inaudible).
4:01 K: The questioner wants to know: when you look out of that emptiness and so on, is that state, is that look, from love, affection and so on.
4:18 What were you going to say, sir?
4:27 Q: Could we perhaps talk this morning about the possibility and the necessity of the human being… (inaudible) totally within the terms in all his relationships?
4:57 K: What terms?
5:06 Q: I mean by these terms, according to our structure and our essential inherent in human possibilities.
5:15 Is it clear, sir?
5:16 K: I’m afraid not, sir.
5:18 Q: I said is it possible to talk this morning about the possibility and the necessity of the human being to live totally within… (inaudible).
5:53 K: Terms?
5:55 Q: Yes, the terms.
6:00 Q: D.e.t.e.r.m.i.n.e.d.
6:03 Q: Determined.
6:05 Q: I mean… (inaudible) I use this term regarding of our structure and our essential, inherent human possibilities.
6:07 K: I am afraid I haven’t understood the question, sir, therefore I can’t repeat it.
6:13 Q: (Inaudible)… true to life and true to nature?
6:18 K: Ah, Can we live true to life and true to nature.
6:24 Q: In oneself or self-knowledge, how does one know one is not deceived?
6:40 K: How does one know one is not caught up in an illusion, or how does one know one doesn’t deceive oneself.
6:53 Q: Sir, I’d like to know if grown-ups who understand, understood what you are trying to talk about, will children have to go through the positive mind and then arrive at the negative or can they start out with the negative… (inaudible)?
7:14 K: Will the… must the children go through the positive acquisition of knowledge to arrive at a different state or can children jump into it right off.
7:31 Q: Sir, may I ask… (inaudible) why is it that a person’s positive mind never stops?
7:53 Why is it that? And second, could you clarify the significance of self-hypnosis or transportation that results when you look at water or fire or something like that?
8:21 Self-hypnosis.
8:24 K: Could you explain self-hypnosis that takes place when one watches the fire or the running water.
8:36 Q: May I perhaps ask a question in connection with something that happened yesterday… (inaudible)? It seems to me the essential of all you can try is this… come to this total attention and awareness, of which you speak, which must be the basis…(inaudible) possibility.
9:58 And you say that, if I understand fully, that tremendous energy is necessary to have… (inaudible). Now, if I may state yesterday’s question differently, it would be: Is it possible to speak today about the nature and quality of energy within us and in which way dissipate, are they dissipated, in which way can… (inaudible) just for this movement within ourselves?
10:05 K: The question is, if I have understood rightly: what is this energy that is needed for total attention, and how does it come about when most of our life is a waste of energy.
10:32 Perhaps by asking that question or, rather, talking that question over together we might come to answer the other questions.
10:40 May we proceed with that question? Would that be of interest to everybody?
10:50 Q: Yes.
10:56 Q: Yes.
11:01 K: When you listen to that stream, to the breeze among the leaves, how you listen seems to me of great importance because the listening is the doing and therefore the listening and the doing brings about energy; but the listening and doing is waste of energy.
12:03 Right? Let’s go into that.
12:22 Every action demands energy. To do anything, to think, to feel, to talk, to do anything demands energy.
12:41 And the doing in which there is effort, there is dissipation of energy.
12:55 Or when there is a division between the doing and the idea, there is a dissipation of energy, isn’t there?
13:10 If I do something because I see it clearly then there is no waste of energy.
13:17 The seeing and the doing together instantly is not dissipation of energy.
13:26 If I see something dangerous, that perception of danger and the immediate action is not waste of energy.
13:48 But with us the doing is separate from the idea so the approximation of action to idea is waste of energy.
14:10 Please, this is, I think, very important to understand because all of us function with a formula, either a Catholic formula, a Protestant formula or a communist formula or the formula which one has developed through experience, through knowledge for oneself.
14:45 And that formula is the image which each one of us has about himself or about what society is or what it should be and so on and so on and so on.
15:03 So the formula is not action. The formula is the desire to be secure in action.
15:21 So what takes place is, is it not, that when there is an action in which there is no friction then there is no waste of energy.
15:40 But action in which there is friction as idea, as pleasure, as formula, it is waste of energy.
15:53 So we must not be concerned with action, but why is it that we have formulas, images?
16:02 That is the question, not how to act in which there is no friction, but rather why is it that we have developed, cultivated, nourished formulas?
16:22 And the more complicated, the more subtle, the more based on knowledge, on experience, the more strong they become.
16:44 And is it possible to act without the formula?
17:00 So that brings up a question: what is maturity?
17:25 Is maturity age, a matter of growing, ripening and dying, or has maturity quite a different significance?
17:49 That is, to ripen, a fruit needs sunshine, darkness, rain and nourishment from the tree, and when it is ripe, it falls from the tree.
18:08 That’s what we call mature, ripe.
18:16 And to us maturity comes only, apparently, through friction, through conflict, through constant battle within and without, and that’s what we call maturity: the deepening of the conflict and the expression of that conflict in action or the expression of that conflict in literature, in this or in so many ways.
19:03 So I’m asking myself: what is it to have a mature mind?
19:21 Must the mind go through innumerable experiences, conflicts, battles, all the influences that a human being lives in modern society, must he go through all that in order to ripen?
19:52 You…? That is, must he be in a constant state of conflict in order to mature?
20:05 Which is the same question as that gentleman asked, so I’m trying to answer it in a different way.
20:22 (Pause) Must one go through all the experiences of life to be mature, to have an action, to be capable of action in which there is no element of friction?
20:59 You…? Must the human mind like yours and mine, must that go through every form of struggle, conflict, dissipation of energy, control of energy in order to arrive at a ripened state?
21:26 We generally say yes. Now, we’re going to question that ‘yes’.
21:37 Right?
21:38 Q: Isn’t there a different type of experience…
21:51 (inaudible)?
21:53 K: I don’t know. You’re asking if there is not a different type of experience. Please, that’s an avoidance of the fact, avoidance of what is, when we’re looking to a different kind of experience.
22:19 I’ve been through all that. Don’t let’s go over that. Sir, let me put the whole thing differently.
22:38 Can a mind which has lived for so long in time, has accumulated so much experience - which has certain value in certain areas - can that mind be made… become totally innocent and from that innocence act, not experience?
23:19 Let’s forget all that we have said; forget all that we have said during all these seventeen talks and look at it anew.
23:36 Must I… must this human mind as it is now go through years and years of struggle, bitterness, fear, hatred, vanity - you know? - all that, and put it all away in order to be innocent?
24:00 Or can it be innocent right from the beginning and sustain that quality of innocency?
24:11 You…? Because it’s only the fresh mind, not contaminated, not broken into fragments through experience and then put together, a mind that is clear without any scratch of memory, it’s only such a fresh mind can see anything new.
25:07 Right? If I want to see something new in life, I can’t come to it with all my cluttered brain, cluttered ideas, confusion, misery and so on.
25:21 So it is absolutely imperative to have a fresh mind.
25:31 Now, how is this to come about? Obviously not methods, systems, practices, doing… practicing awareness, this and ten…
25:46 Obviously all those only make the mind more conditioned in the pattern of the particular system.
26:00 So my question is: though the mind has lived for so long under so many conditions and environment and influences, can that mind free itself instantly and be fresh?
26:31 It may be an absurd question.
26:38 Because I’m asking myself why should I go through any experience, or, if I do, why does it leave any mark?
26:51 You’re following? It is the mark, the remembrances, the pleasure and all the rest of it that make the mind heavy, cluttered, not free, not fresh.
27:19 So I want to find if it is possible - I don’t say it is possible - if it is possible to have a fresh mind all the time in spite of all the incidents and accidents, experiences and so on.
27:41 Right? Now, has that question any validity?
27:55 I think it has validity because I see without a fresh mind I cannot solve any problem.
28:05 Even the most complicated scientific problem, I can’t solve it; I need a fresh mind.
28:15 And there must also be a fresh mind in order to solve the increasing complexities of modern society and its relationship with human beings.
28:33 So it is a valid question because, as I explained, it’s only a fresh mind, a fresh outlook, a mind that is not so heavily conditioned that it can create a new human society, a new human existence and so on.
28:55 Now, how is this to come about? Right? Well, sirs, please go into it.
29:18 If you think that question is valid, please let’s talk it… talk together about it. Do you understand? I have an… I had an experience yesterday - and you cannot avoid experiences.
29:40 To have no reaction is to be dead, paralysed, and reaction is experience.
29:49 When you’ve seen a beautiful mountain, to be completely paralysed without reaction is no meaning.
30:00 But to have the reaction which is an experience and that experience having no root at all - right?
30:17 - no root in the soil of the mind; have an experience and finish it immediately.
30:28 Right? Now, how is that possible?
30:47 How is it possible, living in this world with all its complexities, with all the experiences, the reactions conscious and unconscious that are taking place all the time - of which you may be conscious or unconscious?
31:07 They are impinging - how is it possible, or rather, is it possible for a mind to experience and not leave a mark as memory, and from that memory, from that remembrance act, so the action then is merely a conformity to or approximation to the memory and therefore the action does not release or free the mind from the past?
31:50 I don’t know if you…
31:52 Q: Is that a question you ask us to answer or not?
32:07 K: I don’t know. I’m just… we are going along.
32:25 So I must find a clue to this, a key to this, or otherwise I’ll live constantly in the increasing of experiences, being heavily conditioned in sorrow, in pain and all the rest of it.
32:42 So I must find a clue. I must find a key which will open the door to every experience and leave no mark, or a state of mind that has no experience at all.
33:07 You’re following? Right? There are two questions involved in this.
33:20 Now we’re coming to it.
33:27 First, one sees very clearly there must be death to the past so as to have a very fresh, clear, innocent mind that is capable of dealing with everything in life.
33:51 It is a necessity as food, as drink, as exercise; it is an absolute necessity.
34:04 Then is it possible to live in this world experiencing and those experiences not leaving a single mark?
34:33 And the third thing is: is there a state of mind which, living in this world, functioning, but having no experience at all?
34:59 Which doesn’t mean it is paralysed; which doesn’t mean it is blind or isolated or so… has so separated itself that it avoids every form of experience.
35:17 You’re following? The necessity of a fresh, new mind; the second, the mind that experiences, functions, acts without leaving a scratch behind; and the third is a mind that is so tremendously alive that it needs no experience.
36:02 Right? Now, we’ll leave the third question out for the time being.
36:11 There are only two things for us are involved. We don’t see a fresh mind is necessary. Seeing I mean not intellectually, verbally, but actually demanding it.
36:29 Right? First, we don’t want a fresh mind because that means letting go all the pleasures that one has accumulated; that means really dying to the past; not fragmentarily dying, but dying totally to the past.
37:01 That is, dying not only to your pleasures, but… not only to your sorrows and pains and fears, but dying to all pleasures, otherwise you can’t have a fresh mind.
37:19 So we know deeply… a fresh mind is necessary but we don’t want it with such urgency and immediacy and with such passion.
37:35 Right? And the passion, the urgency cannot be stimulated by the speech, by another.
37:52 So the energy that is needed to have a fresh mind is to die to the… the energy that comes when you die to the past is the passion.
38:13 Right? I wonder if I’m making myself clear.
38:23 You see, we began by asking: how is it possible to have this energy in which there is no contradiction, therefore it is in a state of constant energy, constant heightened sensitivity of great energy in which there is no dissipation?
39:02 We’re answering that question.
39:13 One sees the necessity of a fresh mind intellectually, verbally… says it is necessary.
39:29 Then the mind asks: how am I going to come to that state where there is a fresh mind?
39:44 The demand… the question then is: how am I to come to that fresh mind which will give me a great pleasure?
39:55 Right? It is not that you want a fresh mind, but the pleasure that you are going to get out of that fresh mind.
40:10 Now, the demand for that pleasure is the dissipation of energy.
40:20 I don’t know…
40:28 Right? I want to be healthy but I want all the food which I like, drink, smoke and all the rest of it and yet have health.
40:40 The two can’t be managed. So I’ve discovered something. That is, to have a fresh mind I must understand and put an… die to the pleasure principle.
41:09 Right? Because if I don’t, the question is: how am I to find pleasure in that new mind?
41:21 Right? Right, sirs? Is that clear? So I see that and I see that most of us don’t want to die to all the pleasures, the accumulations, to the hatreds, to the vanities that we have had.
41:54 We want to treasure them and yet have a fresh mind.
42:02 You can’t. So how am I to die to the past?
42:16 Right? Will I put that question? I won’t because I really don’t want to give up the past.
42:34 I have written books; I have been somebody; I have talked on many platforms; I have a history, a reputation.
42:54 I don’t want to die to all that because if I die, what happens?
43:01 I’m nobody. Follow? Follow it, please; do go into it. I am in a state of vacuum, emptiness.
43:20 Right? You see, if I die - and I mean die, not care two pins about reputation, what people say, whether I’ve talked in different parts of the world, all the rest of the rubbish.
43:51 I really don’t care and therefore there is a state of emptiness.
43:59 No, no, please, this is… State of complete emptiness. Right? And in that state of emptiness there is tremendous energy, isn’t there?
44:21 Don’t agree. You don’t know this unless you have done it. It’s an emptiness charged with tremendous intelligence.
44:35 If you don’t like to use the word energy, it’s tremendously sensitive and intelligent - right?
44:45 - therefore that energy, that intelligence, that sensitivity, cannot possibly be brought about through accumulation as knowledge, as experience, as memory.
45:09 So that emptiness, feeling, ‘My God, what? I have lost everything - friends, reputation, the demand to talk and use the audience for your pleasure’ - you know? - all that.
45:34 And when you understand the pleasure, the pleasure principle, demand for pleasure continuity, there is no record of memory… as memory.
45:55 I don’t know if you followed that. Do you follow that? Have I explained myself?
46:06 I hold to memory because it is pleasurable.
46:13 And because it is pleasurable, I don’t want pain.
46:21 So the pleasure creates the pain.
46:28 Right? So I see the necessity of a fresh mind.
46:47 And I… to come… to realise that, to be in that state of mind which is always fresh, not because it is pleasurable, there must be a total emptiness in which the thought as pleasure, the thought as the image, the thought as expression has no meaning.
47:30 And I have… and the mind has come to that point through intelligence – you follow? – through reason, logic, sanity, health, not because it wants pleasure.
47:47 It is a natural sequence, if we can call it sequence, which is not of time because it sees that.
47:57 Right? Therefore through that emptiness experiences can go through.
48:07 You are getting? It is not that I am experiencing and therefore the I who is the observer, the thinker, the experiencer, retains what he is experiencing, but every reaction - and there must be reaction; if not, it’s like putting a pin in your leg and when the leg is paralysed you have no reaction - but to have every heightened reaction but passing through that emptiness, therefore there is no recording of that experience and therefore no past which is based on pleasure and therefore the avoidance of pain.
49:07 Right? All this demands intelligence, not, ‘I want to get it.’ It is not the accumulation of knowledge.
49:27 It’s not of… reading books or listening to talks. It will… nothing will do this, but when the mind sees the necessity of clarity and a fresh mind, and that fresh mind and clarity cannot come about through… can only come through tremendous intelligence which is energy.
50:07 Intelligence is energy because intelligence then acts and not its action based on an idea and therefore which is a dissipation of energy.
50:21 Therefore intelligence is energy. So I’ve come to that point, the mind has come to that point. It doesn’t say, ‘How am I to die to the past?
50:40 How am I to die to the memories that I’ve had, the pleasures and the pains, the self-fulfilment and its pleasures and its frustrations and pain?’ It doesn’t ask how… it doesn’t ask the method.
51:01 Because it sees the necessity of a fresh mind, it has to tackle that; it has to get into grips with that and not with the fresh mind.
51:12 I don’t if you’re following all this.
51:19 Right? So to die, to reject to a pleasure without a motive of a greater pleasure - right? - and to die to that pleasure, of one pleasure - you understand?
51:50 - completely to die to it needs an awareness which is intelligence - right? - which comes with the understanding that you…
52:06 there must be a fresh morning, not the morning… not the yesterday’s evening carried over this morning.
52:22 When that is absolutely clear then everything follows easily.
52:36 So one can have experiences without leaving a mark.
52:44 That is, when one has rejected every form of pleasure and therefore pain and sorrow - because that rejection is awareness of all the structure of pleasure and pain - and out of that awareness energy which is intelligence.
53:12 You’re following? A motor has energy, but it’s… (inaudible) the quality of intelligence.
53:26 And we are saying by totally becoming aware without choice to pleasure and therefore to pain, out of that awareness comes… or with that awareness comes that energy which is intelligence.
53:50 And intelligence is always empty. Right? I don’t if you’re getting this… meaning of this.
54:04 Therefore – wait – therefore energy which is intelligence is essentially simple.
54:21 That is… You know, simplicity has been so loaded, destroyed by saints, by monks, by teachers, that one has lost its meaning altogether.
54:44 They have reduced simplicity into such tawdry money, clothes, matter and food.
54:53 Right? I don’t know if you have noticed all this. Right? Are you…? To them, simplicity is to have a few clothes, one meal a day and all the rest of it, and a few miracles thrown in.
55:18 And that miracles are the easiest thing to do. If you are very simple in a certain direction you can do miracles - one has done it - and so you give this extraordinary halo about nothing.
55:46 But simplicity is something entirely different.
55:58 And one must be extraordinarily simple; not in clothes, in food, in shelter - for God’s sake, let’s get away from that picture and image.
56:19 You see, what we are trying to say is that where there is this intelligence which is energy and therefore living in that state of complete emptiness or aloneness then that intelligence functions always with facts and therefore simple.
56:51 Right? It has no opinions, no dogmas about the fact. There is only the fact, the what is. Right? Now, between the fact and the image which we have about the fact, the opinion, the formula about the fact, that space is waste of energy.
57:28 Right? Do go into all this. This is the last talk but… it doesn’t matter, go into it, suck it up, drink it - you know?
57:52 - so that your mind, your whole energy becomes astonishingly alive and intelligent and therefore extraordinarily simple.
58:04 And that simplicity is that state in which there is no space between the observer and the fact.
58:20 There is only the fact, the what is, whether it’s painful, pleasurable, it… - the what is.
58:35 Now, we see all that.
58:45 Then is it possible, one asks, to live in this world, go to the office, have a family, go for holidays - you know? - all that one does, live and yet have this intelligence functioning all the time?
59:09 Right? That’s a wrong question. Right? That’s not a simple question. That’s a question based on the desire for pleasure.
59:29 Right? You’re getting this? But if you said, ‘Can I face the fact, the what is every day without the interval between the me and the fact?’ then that would have meaning.
59:50 But if you say… if you ask, ‘Can I maintain this sense of intelligence all the time?’ then you’re asking the wrong question.
1:00:06 So what is now we’ve come to is the fact, the what is, is the experience - right? - is acting, forcing the mind to look at it as what is, not with your opinions and ideas, therefore your opinions and ideas produce the experience with regard to the fact.
1:00:47 I don’t know if you’re getting all this. But when you see the fact as fact, as what is, there is no experience. Right? If I am angry, I am angry. What is…? It is a fact; it is so. But the moment I say, ‘I must not; it is bad; it is not good for my health, for my liver, for my heart, for my spiritual life,’ then I am beginning to experience in the field which is not factual at all.
1:01:29 You’re following? I don’t know… how extraordinary it is that a mind can look at a fact, what is, without any experience.
1:01:56 If I’m a liar, to look at it without any explanation, justification, condemnation.
1:02:17 It is the explanation, justification, condemnation which is the past, which is based on pleasure, pain and memory, that experiences, not the mind that faces the fact that it is not telling the truth.
1:02:35 I wonder if you’re getting all this.
1:02:44 Then what happens to the fact? Right? What happens to the fact that I’m telling a lie? Right? Is there a puzzle about this? I have told a lie and I’m telling a lie. I’m telling a lie because I’m frightened - keep it on that very simple level - I’m frightened.
1:03:22 The fact is fear, not the lying - right? - the fear that has caused me to tell a lie.
1:03:36 And the fact is, the what is, is fear.
1:03:49 And fear I must get rid of. I don’t like it. It causes disturbance, makes the mind dull, heavy, cunning.
1:04:06 So I try to get rid of it.
1:04:13 The getting rid is the wasted effort and therefore the experience of getting rid of it, whereas the fact is fear.
1:04:27 You’re following all this?
1:04:37 This is… Please, this is rather…
1:04:45 Fear. Any action, any movement in any direction about fear is waste of energy.
1:05:06 But… And having an interval, a gap between the observer who says, ‘I am afraid’, that’s also waste of energy.
1:05:55 Can the mind, without any movement, stay with that fear?
1:06:07 I’m afraid of death, or a dozen things.
1:06:19 Can it stay with that fear without any activity?
1:06:36 That is – go into it – that is, to be aware of the whole structure of fear and not try to condemn it, translate it or justify it, but be completely be aware of it and therefore no movement, and therefore an energy which is intelligence – you follow? – and therefore no fear.
1:07:06 I don’t know if you’re following all this.
1:07:15 Not how to sustain a state of mind that’s not afraid.
1:07:23 I may be afraid tomorrow or the next instant, but to meet that fear totally in complete choiceless, passive awareness and therefore an energy which is intelligence, hence no fear.
1:07:44 Don’t learn the trick. It’s not a trick. If you learn the trick and apply that trick to get rid of fear, goodbye - you will never get it.
1:08:03 But if you saw this whole thing.
1:08:10 So there is no practicing of awareness, no demand for its continuity.
1:08:39 And you don’t demand and you don’t practise because the mind is intelligent through awareness.
1:08:48 You follow?
1:08:56 So next question is: is it possible for a mind to have… to be in that state of mind where experiences are no longer… have no longer any meaning?
1:09:28 Visions, what people say, don’t say, whether you’re talking, don’t talk, whether you write, don’t write, whether you are famous, not…
1:09:45 You follow?
1:09:52 Unless one has done the first… understood the first question completely as… gone into it thoroughly, they can’t answer the next question - you’re following? - because the second question comes from the first, naturally.
1:10:15 You see, we think awareness is something that has to be maintained.
1:10:31 Anything that has a continuity is not fresh.
1:10:38 Right? And what we are talking is of a mind that is fresh, greatly intelligent, and it is intelligent because it has understood and the understanding is the energy that creates that intelligence.
1:11:07 And when you have lived that way the attention, the awareness, attention can go to sleep - right?
1:11:20 - can be quiet, and when necessary act in that state of intelligence.
1:11:28 I don’t know if you’re following all this. But if you say, ‘I must maintain the thing constantly’, then you’re back again, and therefore you’ll never have… - not you - there’ll never be a fresh mind.
1:11:48 And the fresh mind is not an idea.
1:12:03 It is a fact only when we have understood the structure and the nature of pleasure, which is the breeding ground for sorrow.
1:12:22 So one must begin very near, the first step, which is the… very near, which is sorrow, pleasure, in little things, not in vast, tremendous ideas - little things.
1:12:46 And by moving from there you’ll find out for yourself whether a mind can live in this world, function, go to office and all the rest of it because it’s so tremendously awake that it has no experience, and therefore it is only such a mind that is innocent; and innocency is the highest form of simplicity.
1:13:31 And you need… there must be such a mind because then in that mind that is completely intelligent and energy which is silent.
1:14:04 You follow? Energy that is not silent can never be intelligent. I don’t know if you’re following all this.
1:14:20 Then one begin… then there is quite a different movement altogether.
1:14:38 But that becomes speculative and therefore useless unless one has gone through this first.
1:14:47 (Inaudible).
1:14:59 I hope you all will…