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SA65T5 - A mind in a state of complete negation
Saanen, Switzerland - 20 July 1965
Public Talk 5



0:00 This is J. Krishnamurti’s fifth public talk in Saanen, 1965.
0:09 Krishnamurti: I would like, if I may, this morning, talk about time.
0:29 It is rather a complex problem that needs careful inquiry and a subtle insight to find the truth, or put a stop to time.
0:53 I feel that most of us are tortured or in conflict and in confusion in the everyday living of our lives.
1:13 We haven’t been able to find a way out, in spite of two million years of man’s existence, in spite of all the technological advancements and the innumerable drugs and the opiates, and in spite of the analysts and the priests and the saviours and the Masters and the gurus, and in spite of these talks also, we don’t seem to be able to throw off easily, without the least effort, as a leaf drops off in the autumn and is blown away, dissolved, we apparently find it extremely difficult or we have not the capacity, the know-how, how to free the mind or for the mind to free itself from the various entanglements, from the various conscious or unconscious issues, travails, undiscovered secrets and despairs and miseries; and we think time – that is, tomorrow, multiplied by a thousand tomorrows – will bring about a miraculous change.
3:23 But I feel that there is a… there must be a different way of living; not escaping, not running off into monasteries or taking vows or joining some particular social, political, economic activity.
3:58 I feel that there is a different approach, a different way of dissolving the mountainous difficulties of our daily life.
4:21 And I would like, if I may, to talk about it, and if I may request you to listen; not that you’re going to agree or disagree, but just to listen, as you would quietly listen to that aeroplane passing overhead.
4:57 Listen intently but effortlessly, if that’s possible.
5:21 Because by mere intellectual analysis, examination and probing, we shan’t be able to solve this problem; we have done it for so many years and so many lives and centuries, tried to find a way-out, through discipline, through sacrifice, through control, through forgetting oneself and identifying with something which is called greater.
6:01 We have done all these innumerable ways, followed innumerable systems and yet, at the end of it all, we are still where we are: fearful, anxious, tortured, full of sorrow.
6:26 And there must be a totally different approach to this problem.
6:37 And I am going to, if I can, this morning, wander through this; not intellectually, not verbally, because you can’t enter into this realm of clarity verbally or intellectually or with any sort of sentiment or emotion.
7:15 One must come into it unknowingly, without effort, without any deliberate intention; and if you will kindly, adequately listen, then perhaps we shall move together.
7:47 But if you merely intellectually, analytically try to find out, I’m afraid you and I will lose our communion and communication together.
8:10 So there must be a different approach altogether to this monstrous way of living; to wars, to our competition, to this dreadful ambition to be somebody, this constant battle with the neighbour, with your society; and to understand that, one has to understand, go into what is freedom.
8:48 Though I have… we have talked about it a little the other day, it is an inexhaustible subject, and being inexhaustible, you must come to it without any effort.
9:15 And that is going to be the most difficult task for each one of us. Because most of us do not want freedom, because we don’t know what it is; we’d rather have the things that we have and bear with the things that are painful, sorrowful, than to abandon them, because the things of the future we don’t know.
9:42 And so we don’t know what is freedom. We have an idea, but the idea is not the fact; or we have a concept and, again, the concept, the experience, the knowledge will not lead to that freedom.
10:06 And as we were saying the other day, that freedom demands order; and order brought about deliberately, purposefully, is disorder; because order of the will is merely a form of resistance, with which we are very familiar, which man has indulged in for centuries upon centuries.
10:46 And where there is freedom, there must be space.
10:57 Space implies a sense of solitude, a sense of aloneness.
11:11 This is not something mystical, some abstraction, but a very definite reality — as definite as your sitting in this tent in Switzerland.
11:33 There cannot be immense space in which the mind can function, if the mind is not completely alone.
11:50 That is, aloneness and loneliness are two different states.
11:58 We know very well what is loneliness: the sense of being without a companion, isolated, cut off from everything, from every relationship, even though you may be surrounded by all your family, living a prosperous and active life.
12:23 Yet, in spite of all that, there is this sense of extraordinary loneliness, with which most of us – at least those of us who have inquired into the ways of life – have discovered.
12:42 Now, that loneliness and aloneness, it seems to me, are two different states.
12:51 This loneliness is the… loneliness is the result of everyday activity, in which the action springs from the centre of the image.
13:07 The image is, in essence, put together through pleasure and discarding pain, non-pleasure.
13:30 So our values are based on pleasure, not on fact, not on what is, but what will give us pleasure.
13:44 Please observe what is being said; listen to it, not as an outsider speaking, but one with whom you are talking about yourself.
14:06 After all, that’s what we are doing here in all these talks.
14:16 Each one of us is talking about himself, opening himself, exposing himself; not neurotically, not emotionally, not sentimentally, but factually.
14:34 Each one of us is talking to himself and therefore discovering himself and therefore understanding himself, widely, deeply.
14:51 So, as long as this image based on pleasure, whose values are pleasure, there must be the space created by the loneliness of the centre which feels that it creates space, for itself...
15:28 the centre which creates space for itself and in its relationship with things, with people, with ideas; so this centre – within… centre which creates the space round itself – is loneliness, of which we are either conscious or unconscious.
16:09 And that loneliness is entirely different from being alone.
16:19 That is, that aloneness is not the result of any activity of the mind.
16:34 The mind, after all, has evolved through time; has grown into the present state through the cultivation of values based on pleasure, like the animal.
16:57 If you have watched an animal, you’ll see how it takes delight in pleasure and avoids every form of pain.
17:14 And our mind, which has developed through centuries, is still based not on fact, not on what is, but the evaluation of what is according to pleasure.
17:42 And therefore such a mind wants to be, live in companionship of pleasure, and therefore its space that it creates is its own limitation of pleasure.
18:06 Whereas, what we are talking about – that aloneness – is not the product of pleasure at all.
18:16 Therefore one must understand very deeply this question of pleasure.
18:24 We’re not saying pleasure is right or wrong.
18:31 We are pointing out only that as long as the mind is evaluating everything in terms of pleasure – its values, its judgments, its concepts, its activities – then that very centre is productive of conflict and contradiction; and as long as there is contradiction within itself, all action – all action, all relationship – is bound to create more conflict, more confusion.
19:45 Now, we know this; we know how to – if we are at all aware – how to deal with each problem as it arises and end it, if we are capable of it; by watching it, not running away from it, being totally attentive to that particular problem; whatever the problem is – the smallest unto the most profound problem.
20:18 If you smoke, to be aware of it; and in that awareness, reaching a crisis, when the craving reaches its highest point; and being aware of that craving, it soon dissolves, disappears, withers away.
20:44 If you have tried this, you know this. So we know the… a particular trick – if I may use that word – how to dissolve a particular problem.
21:00 But we have many, many, many problems, conscious and unconscious.
21:16 Sirs, this is a very difficult subject and needs all your attention; because what we are going to go into now demands your full attention.
21:44 We are going to work together.
21:51 We have to apply our attention and that means no disturbance; or be aware of the disturbance – like the noise of the aeroplane – be aware of it and then, if you are aware of inattention then you will be attentive.
22:16 You follow? Don’t try to force yourself to be attentive; then you won’t.
22:26 But if you are aware that a particular noise, the river, the wind, the heat, the people who come in and go out, they are interfering with your attention, be aware of that movement, of that noise, of that inattention; and being aware of that inattention, you will come naturally to be attentive.
22:49 I don’t know quite where I was; I’ll have to start it all over again.
22:57 You see, we have many problems, hidden and open; problems with which you can communicate and problems with which you cannot.
23:19 And should we go through every problem, unearthing, opening them up, investigating, rooting them out — every problem?
23:30 That involves time, doesn’t it?
23:38 I have an economic problem, social problem, problems of relationship, problems of investigation, inquiry, knowledge, innumerable problems; problems of sorrow, doubt, uncertainty, the demand to be completely secure; and should we take each one of them, understand them, resolve them?
24:13 And have you the time to deal with each problem separately?
24:33 You understand my question? Or… – before the or – you know what’s implied in this?
24:48 If you deal with each fragment of each problem, you need time, you need energy, you need constant battle to be aware not to miss one single problem.
25:19 And so we say to ourselves, ‘Problems can never end.
25:26 I shan’t be able to dissolve all my problems before I die; there are too many problems,’ so I try to escape into some mystical, fanciful, idiotic nonsense: take... smoke marijuana or go to the church, they’re all about the same.
26:02 Whereas, perhaps there may be a totally different way of looking at it; that’s what I want to go into.
26:14 That is, I have, say, ten problems and more, and if I take each one of them, understand them, I must understand each one so completely that that particular problem doesn’t…
26:37 that particular understanding of a particular problem doesn’t interfere with the next problem.
26:44 You follow? And I know very well that all problems – economic, social, personal relationship – every problem is related to each other; there is no separate, watertight problem, independent of others; they’re all interrelated.
27:10 It’s raining. It’ll be cooler.
27:24 So I see that. And also I see I must have freedom immediately; not when I’m about to die, not when I’m…
27:42 tomorrow; so I must have it, with an intensity, with a drive, with complete energy, there must be that sense of freedom.
27:52 You understand? There must be freedom from all problems; and that’s the only freedom.
28:06 And also, freedom implies action; freedom is action; not freedom from which I derive action: that is, ‘I must be free to act.’ That’s what we all say to ourselves.
28:46 We say to ourselves, ‘I must be free to think what I like, politically, economically, socially’ – but not religiously; there you’re caught – and wanting freedom, demanding freedom, from which you hope to act; or having freedom, you have the choice to act.
29:20 That’s what we want; when you’re in a tyranny of a party system, of dictatorship in the name of the people and all that silly nonsense, then you want freedom to act.
29:35 So freedom is something different from action. Whereas, we are saying, freedom is action; freedom is action because action then is not based on an idea.
29:59 And idea is the organised concept of pleasure – right?
30:11 – therefore, action based on idea is inaction leading to prison, not to freedom.
30:24 There is action which is freedom only when there is a release, a complete understanding of action which is not based on idea.
30:40 Right. So, I see there is… freedom is action; action is not of time.
31:04 That is, the many problems that I have, is it possible to dissolve them immediately?
31:21 Not only prevent problems arising but the problems that I have, to end them immediately?
31:32 There are two things involved: the problems that arise and to deal with them immediately, and the problems that I have already and also to deal with them immediately, so that my mind is at no time entangled, caught in the net of problems, at all.
32:01 It is only then there is freedom; and freedom then is action. Right? So to understand this, I must understand time. Time is duration, a continuous existence.
32:32 Time, as we know it, is from here to there.
32:44 Time is an interval between one thought and its achievement through action.
33:01 Time is the postponement of a problem and the ending of a problem.
33:12 Please follow all this. Time implies a gradual process of action which will resolve the problem.
33:37 So we use time, like an ambitious man who wants to fulfil through his sordid, little book or big books; he says, ‘I must have time to fulfil.’ So we all use time as a means of achievement, of change, of cultivating a certain capacity; using a means, which is time, to bring about happiness, better relationship and all the rest of it.
34:23 Now, what is involved in that? That is, what is involved in this gradual process?
34:52 You see, as every problem is related to another problem, if you are pursuing one problem and trying to dissolve that particular problem, there are all the tensions, the pressures, the influences of other problems, of other issues, therefore you can never solve one problem as a gradual process.
35:25 You…? Right? Am I making myself clear? Look, if thought moves from here to there, there are other influences, other causes, other drives which thwart, pervert or exert influence along different lines and I never come to that particular point.
36:05 And yet that’s what we are doing all the time: we are using time as a means to achieve, to change, to bring about a result, psychologically, and therefore we never complete a thing; we’re always modifying, modifying.
36:31 So, to me, time breeds disorder, not order.
36:45 So I understand that; not verbally, not ideationally as a picture, as an image, it is so.
36:55 If I am hungry, I eat – if I have food – there is no problem involved in it.
37:07 If I can find food, do various things, I act immediately; there is no postponement of action.
37:21 So if I understand that very clearly, that time breeds disorder, then how shall I deal with all the problems which are totally related with each other?
37:39 You are understanding…? You understand the question? I see it very clearly that time has no meaning, except chronologically, as acquiring particular knowledge, but time has no meaning in any other direction.
38:10 And yet I have problems – right? – problems of which I am conscious or unconscious; problems which I know cannot be solved separately; they must all be solved at once.
38:30 Right? I can’t solve my physical problems, economic problems separately from psychological problems.
38:48 So it must be solved totally and not fragmentarily; not in one particular area and then go on to… move on to another area of problems.
39:02 They must be solved completely. How is this to be done? You understand? If the question is very clear – to you, not to me – then how will you deal with this?
39:35 The question of death, old age, disease, pain, the suffering, the loneliness, the despairs, the travail, the tortures, the uncertainties — all of them, d’un seul coup; how will you do it?
40:05 If you don’t know how to do it, then you’re caught… then you use time; then, till you die, you are tortured.
40:14 Right? Is the question clear? Now, how will you answer this question?
40:33 (Pause) When you have a question about which no-one can tell you the answer; no book, no philosopher, no teacher, no church, nobody can tell you what to do.
41:10 If another tells you and you follow him, then you’re lost, you’re back again into the turmoil and conflict.
41:23 So there is nobody to tell you; what will you do?
41:33 Don’t you stop all activity of the mind?
41:43 You have looked in every direction, tried to solve everything in ten different ways; you are faced with this one fundamental problem; and what will you do?
42:01 Surely, there is only one state of mind; that is, as you don’t know the answer, as you don’t know what to do, the mind stops completely all its activities.
42:25 Right? Are you following this?
42:33 Non-verbally, I hope. I don’t know what to do; I must find a way out. No books; all that rubbish has been thrown away down the gutter.
42:52 And I’m faced with this problem; what am I to do? I know I can’t go back the old way.
43:03 So here is a positive question – right? – and any positive approach to it is of time; therefore my mind must be completely negative.
43:23 Right? You know what I mean by negative and the positive?
43:32 Positive is the process of analysis, examination, asking, tearing, following, destroying, all that; we have done that.
43:44 You have gone to this church, that guru, that priest, that book, that philosopher, followed that system; you have discarded positively the whole activity.
44:00 And therefore your mind, when confronted with this fundamental issue, is in a state of negation.
44:20 Right? Negation in the sense it is not expecting an answer, not looking for a way out.
44:31 I…? Do follow this. This is really… If one can understand this, you will be able to resolve all the problems with one breath.
44:47 That is, your mind, having inquired, analysed – which doesn’t take long; you can do that very quickly – it has been through all the positive ways and paths and wandered around, and now, as it has not found any answer, it is completely in a state of negation; not waiting, not hoping, not expecting someone to tell you.
45:28 Right? So please, don’t agree; for God’s sake, don’t agree. When it is in that state of mind, complete negation, then you can approach every… you can approach all the problems; then you will find that they can be resolved totally and completely, because it is the mind that is creating this problem separately; it’s the mind that is breaking each problem into a separate, fragmentary issue, and hoping thereby to dissolve them.
46:18 So when the mind is completely quiet, negatively, it has no problems at all.
46:31 And therefore, as each problem… so as problems arise – which are inevitable; don’t think problems won’t arise – it can deal with them, immediately.
46:57 You are understanding? After all, what is a problem? A problem is – is it not? – does it not arise when there is a challenge, a crisis which the mind is incapable of meeting totally?
47:18 There is an inadequate response to a challenge and that brings about a problem.
47:28 Right? Please follow this; it’s quite interesting.
47:37 And most of us need challenges, otherwise we would be asleep.
47:50 The problem of Common Market, which de Gaulle is trying to break up, that’s an issue – sorry – and what is taking place in Algiers, in Vietnam and all the rest of it, those are all challenges, and you must find an adequate response.
48:07 If there is not an adequate response, it is the response that creates the problem because it’s inadequate.
48:17 Right? Now, unless most of us have challenges thrown at us all the time, consciously or unconsciously, we’ll go to sleep.
48:32 Or we are incapable, so worn-out, or we don’t want problems, we escape from them and then we live in some mystical world; of course, that is its own affair.
48:52 So, if you see this problem of challenge and response, and the necessity of keeping the mind awake, and you see the mind can keep awake without challenges – right? – which requires an intensity; therefore you do not depend on outward challenges of any kind: of de Gaulle, Algiers, Vietnam or the communist tyranny or whatever it is; you don’t depend on any challenge because your mind is aware of the whole issue of challenge and response, and the inadequacy of response which creates the problem.
49:55 Then, if you reject the outward challenge, because your own mind is immensely more awake than the outward problems, then the mind creates its own challenge.
50:14 You follow? That challenge is much greater than the outward challenge; its own doubts, its own inquiry; its own energy that is driving, pushing, asking, looking.
50:37 And you have been… if the mind has been through these two types of challenge and response, then the mind can be without challenge.
50:52 That which is clear, that which is light has no challenge; it is what it is.
51:04 But to say, ‘Well, I have reached that state of what is because I’ve peculiar… it’s my nature,’ I say, please, begin all over again, down the road and begin.
51:23 So a mind that is in a state of complete negation because it has understood the whole process of positive inquiry, positive assertions, following, denial, acceptance, it is only such a mind that acts, which is freedom and therefore it has no problem.
52:08 Let’s proceed.
52:22 I’m surprised that you accept all that has been said.
52:37 Perhaps you don’t accept it or deny it, but you haven’t thought about it. I mean, it must be… you must be asking yourself, ‘What the dickens is he talking about?’ (Laughter) ‘How can I act without idea?
53:03 How can I live, do, be, without a formula, without a concept, without a future?’ You understand?
53:17 Don’t you ask that? ‘How can I act without idea?’ Because your action is based on a formula of what you should do or your action is based on a memory or on a technique, or of… the various experience accumulated as memory, which responds, which then becomes act.
53:54 You follow? So, the speaker says, ‘As long as you’re acting, which is the result of an idea, you will have a contradiction and therefore pain, misery.’ And you just listen, accept it.
54:14 But you don’t say to me, ‘Look, what am I to do? I know the way I act, the way I live. I want to be very famous, therefore I write a book and I am frustrated when that book is not recognised.
54:33 I… you have insulted me and I have got all the memories of that — how am I to put it aside?’ Or that you have given me delight in flattering me and I have those ideas and, according to those ideas, I act.
54:55 So is it possible ever to free the mind from the idea and therefore be always in a state of action?
55:12 You’re following? Not idea and then action, but always in a state of action.
55:22 And you cannot be in a state of complete action unless you are in a state of negation. You are following all this? You see, after all… – am I…? I’ll stop in a few minutes – after all, one wants to live with a great sense of sensitivity and intelligence; they both are the same: to be completely sensitive is to be completely intelligent.
56:03 And to live so intelligently in life that you have no conflicts, no miseries, no effort — you live.
56:13 And to be so tremendously intelligent and sensitive, there must be no moment of an interval between idea and action.
56:33 Because if there is an interval between idea and action, in that interval, which is time, there is conflict and effort and therefore deterioration of energy.
56:58 If you understand that really, deeply, then you will see that your mind is in complete state of action all the time.
57:15 The inaction of the mind is action.
57:27 Oh... So the mind can be active and also be aware of its inaction; but the inaction is not inattention.
57:55 So the mind which is living, working, active, has no interval as an idea and action; and therefore such a mind, because it has understood this whole breeding of problems and experience and challenge and response and all the rest of it, such a mind is completely alone.
58:42 Not as a contrast to loneliness, not as an isolation.
58:53 And it is only the mind that is completely alone is free.