Krishnamurti Subtitles

Does compassion flower in the field of desire?

Saanen - 17 July 1977

Public Talk 4

0:22 Krishnamurti: If we may, we'll go on
with what we were talking about
0:26 the other day we met here.
0:32 Some of you
may not have been here
0:39 and so I'll go over it
very briefly.
0:49 First of all,
I would like to point out
0:56 that we are
a gathering of serious people
1:03 – at least I hope so.
1:11 Not a gathering
for intellectuals,
1:17 or romantics,
or sentimentalists
1:21 because we are
dealing with facts,
1:25 the facts of daily life,
1:31 the way of living.
1:36 And,
if one is not at all serious,
1:43 one doesn't see the point
of coming here,
1:46 taking all the trouble
1:49 and sitting down here
for an hour.
1:56 And I hope that
2:01 all of us who are here
are really quite serious,
2:12 because we are concerned
with our daily living,
2:17 which are daily facts.
2:23 Most of us make those facts
into an abstraction,
2:32 to abstract, from the fact,
an idea,
2:37 a conclusion,
2:41 and become prisoners
to those ideas and conclusions.
2:47 We may ventilate those prisons
2:50 but still we live, most of us,
2:54 because we make
abstractions of facts, in prison.
3:02 Please, therefore,
3:06 be good enough to understand
that we are not dealing with ideas,
3:14 some exotic philosophy,
3:22 or dealing
with abstractive conclusions.
3:29 We are here,
if I may again point out,
3:32 as I've been doing for the last
three or four gatherings here,
3:39 that we are sharing
this thing together.
3:46 We are going into problems
that require a great deal of care,
3:53 a great deal of attention.
3:56 One must be very, very serious
3:59 because the house is burning.
4:03 I do not know
if you are aware of all this.
4:06 There is the Communist world
pressing all the time,
4:14 make us believe
in certain ideologies
4:19 and if we don't, we are
either sent to a concentration camp
4:23 or mental hospitals, and so on.
4:26 That is gradually closing in.
4:30 One may not be aware of it now,
4:35 but if you are aware
of the world situation,
4:39 what is happening in the world
4:41 economically,
socially, politically,
4:44 and in preparation for wars,
4:49 one has to become
terribly serious.
4:58 It isn't a thing
you play around with,
5:02 one has to act.
5:06 And as we were saying,
action based on skill,
5:13 which we discussed
last Thursday,
5:21 action based on skill
5:24 must inevitably lead to
separative, fragmentary action.
5:35 Please follow it.
5:38 I'll go into it again
as we did last Thursday.
5:44 Because our education,
5:47 our environment,
sociological demands,
5:53 urge everyone
to develop a particular skill.
6:03 That skill brings about
6:07 not only a sense of power,
6:12 but also such action
born of that skill is very limiting,
6:20 emphasises
the importance of oneself.
6:25 One builds
the structure of oneself,
6:29 the I, the ego.
6:33 And without clarity,
6:38 skill becomes destructive.
6:45 Clarity, we mean by that,
6:48 the clarity that comes
when there is the art of listening,
6:56 the art of seeing,
6:59 the art of learning.
7:03 And we mean by that word art,
7:06 to put everything
in its right place,
7:10 where it belongs.
7:15 Then out of that action,
7:21 which is to give everything
its proper place,
7:27 out of that comes clarity.
7:34 Clarity is not born of logic,
7:40 reason,
7:44 or objective thinking.
7:47 But clarity one must have,
7:50 to act clearly,
wholly, completely.
7:59 One must understand
the meaning of listening,
8:03 the meaning of seeing
8:06 and the art of learning.
8:11 We said the art of listening
8:17 means that you listen
not to your own prejudices,
8:23 not to your own conclusions,
to your own experiences,
8:27 with which
you are quite familiar.
8:31 And with those prejudices,
conditions, you listen,
8:36 then you don't listen at all.
8:41 Then you are merely judging
8:44 what is being said
with what you already know,
8:47 therefore there is
no actual communication or clarity.
8:54 And the art of seeing,
8:58 to look without any direction,
9:04 without any motive,
9:08 to look at the world,
9:11 to look at
what is happening around you,
9:14 politically, religiously,
9:17 and all the things
that the gurus
9:19 unfortunately
are bringing over to Europe,
9:23 to see all that, clearly,
9:28 without any personal demand,
9:34 without any
personal prejudice or want.
9:38 That again needs
a great deal of attention,
9:42 one has to have.
9:44 And also to learn.
9:49 And I think
this is very important to understand.
9:53 To learn implies,
9:57 as most of us know,
10:03 knowledge, facts, information,
10:07 and that information, knowledge,
experience, is stored in the brain
10:14 and according to that knowledge
10:17 you act
skilfully, or not skilfully.
10:29 But when thought
10:32 – which is the result of accumulated
knowledge, experience and memory,
10:38 and therefore reaction
to that memory, which is thought -
10:43 when thought spills over,
as it were,
10:46 into the psychological field
10:49 then it creates havoc,
10:56 which we talked about
sufficiently the other day.
11:01 So if you don't mind
we will not go into that again,
11:05 because we have a lot of things
to talk about still.
11:12 The art of listening,
11:16 the art of seeing
11:20 what is happening around you,
11:23 what is happening inside you,
11:25 what is taking place
in your relationship
11:30 with another, man, woman,
11:32 to see it very clearly.
11:39 Then the art of learning
11:40 brings about
an extraordinary quality of clarity.
11:49 If you have done it,
as you are sitting there,
11:51 if you do it actually,
not theoretically,
11:56 follow it
step by step and do it,
11:59 then you will have
an extraordinary clarity
12:04 from which action takes place.
12:07 And in that clarity,
there comes naturally the skill.
12:14 But what we are doing now
is to develop skill without clarity
12:23 and therefore
whatever we do in the world,
12:27 in our daily lives,
12:29 leads to constant conflict,
misery, confusion.
12:33 That again is very obvious.
12:36 And we were saying
that without compassion,
12:42 clarity in itself
has very little meaning.
12:47 So we are going to
go into this question this morning
12:54 of what is the meaning
and the significance of compassion.
13:03 Before we go into that
13:09 it becomes important
to understand
13:13 that we are
dealing with daily life
13:18 and nothing else,
13:21 because that is
the basis of all relationship
13:25 and therefore all life.
13:36 Most of us are mediocre.
13:41 The word mediocre means,
13:45 the root meaning of that word,
13:49 is to go half way up the hill.
14:01 We all do that,
we just go half way up,
14:05 and that is mediocrity.
14:08 Excellence means
going to the very top of it.
14:17 So we are asking
for excellence,
14:21 not mediocrity,
mediocre action.
14:26 Is that clear?
14:30 To go all the way,
not go half way,
14:36 otherwise we are
going to be smothered,
14:40 destroyed as human beings
14:45 by the politicians,
by the ideologists,
14:48 whether they are Communists,
Socialists and so on,
14:53 or Eurocommunists.
15:00 So we are demanding of ourselves
the highest form of excellence.
15:10 And that excellence
can only come into being
15:14 when there is compassion,
15:18 clarity,
15:21 and from this
compassion and clarity comes skill
15:25 – not the other way around.
15:30 And that's what
we are trying to do,
15:32 to develop skill
and have clarity and then compassion.
15:39 We are saying
quite the contrary.
15:44 So we are going into this question
of what is compassion.
15:50 What is the structure and the nature
of this extraordinary quality,
15:56 which if the human mind
doesn't have,
16:00 it is going to
destroy the world,
16:04 and therefore
destroy human beings.
16:09 We also said in our talks
that each human being,
16:15 you as a human being
16:18 are the representative
of the whole of humanity.
16:24 Which is not an idea
or an abstraction,
16:28 but an actual daily fact.
16:32 That is, wherever you go,
16:35 India, Asia, America
or Europe,
16:39 or even Russia and China,
16:45 human beings
are going through anxiety,
16:52 fear, uncertainty,
16:55 great sense of loneliness,
17:02 they are caught
in the stream of sorrow.
17:05 This is a fact
right through the world.
17:10 So every human being,
17:14 that is you who are here
in this gathering,
17:18 and outside,
17:20 are actually
the entire essence of all humanity.
17:27 That is a fact, you must not only
realise it intellectually but...
17:47 ...realise this fact
not only intellectually
17:50 but with all your being,
17:53 in your blood, in your guts,
17:58 which is an absolute fact.
18:02 So it becomes very important
18:07 for each human being
to realise this,
18:11 that he is responsible.
18:16 When you feel utterly responsible
then you care,
18:23 then you care what kind of
education your children have,
18:27 what kind of literature,
18:30 everything you care.
18:35 So we are going to go
into this question of compassion.
18:51 As we said
18:56 we are examining
the thing together.
19:01 We are reasoning over it
19:05 We are exercising
our highest excellent logic.
19:13 But reason,
19:17 clear, objective thinking,
19:21 and excellent logic
19:25 does not bring about compassion.
19:28 But we must exercise
the qualities that we have,
19:33 which is reason,
19:38 careful observation,
19:41 and from that,
excellency of clear sight.
19:50 We are taking the journey
19:54 and please, see
the importance of this.
19:58 If you merely listen
and accept or reject
20:03 then we are not communicating
with each other.
20:09 The speaker wants to
discuss it over with you, go into it,
20:13 because he feels
it's tremendously urgent, this matter.
20:25 As we are sharing together
this question:
20:32 'what is
the implication of compassion'
20:38 then it becomes
your responsibility
20:48 to think clearly,
20:51 not with
your personal prejudices,
20:54 not with your
particular form of experience,
20:58 or certain conclusions that
you have derived through experience
21:04 or by learning,
reading and so on.
21:08 Then those conclusions,
21:11 will prevent you from
sharing together with another.
21:17 I think that's very clear.
21:23 So we are going together
to explore,
21:29 to investigate,
21:32 not intellectually
but factually,
21:37 in our daily life,
21:41 whatever that life be:
21:42 ugly, sometimes happy,
21:45 sometimes very depressing
and so on,
21:52 whatever it is we are going to
go together and examine all this.
21:59 So please, give your care,
22:04 your attention,
22:05 be serious, for God's sake,
22:08 for your own sake.
22:13 The future
is what you make of it today.
22:20 If you are negligent,
22:23 if you are
merely superficially living,
22:28 then you are
creating a world for the future
22:32 which will be most destructive.
22:37 I do not know if you know
what is happening in the world,
22:43 how the technology
has so far advanced,
22:47 military and all the rest of
the horror that is going on,
22:53 and if you realise it
you have got to do something.
23:00 So let's proceed
23:03 to find out
23:05 – not from the speaker
23:11 because I am not your guru,
23:16 we are not asking
for anyone to follow
23:22 because the follower
destroys truth.
23:30 There is no guru,
there is no follower,
23:33 there is no authority here,
of any kind.
23:42 So we are together
as two human beings,
23:47 deeply concerned,
23:51 not only with our lives
but the lives of humanity,
23:57 to bring about
23:59 a radical psychological transformation
in our consciousness.
24:08 Content makes consciousness
24:10 – content: what it is –
24:13 what is inside that consciousness
makes consciousness.
24:19 Sorry if I am rather emphatic
about all this.
24:26 I am not being dogmatic.
24:28 If you look at it, go into it,
you will find it out for yourself.
24:33 So we are concerned
with the transformation
24:37 of the content
of our human consciousness.
24:46 The human content is
24:50 all the things
that thought has put into it,
24:58 like politics,
the division in politics,
25:01 my country and your country,
25:04 the ideologies,
25:07 the Communist ideologies
25:11 according to Marx and Lenin,
25:14 or Eurocommunism with
their particular brand of Communism.
25:19 The content is all the
religious dogmas, rituals, beliefs,
25:30 the demand that you obey
25:35 because the priests,
or the popes,
25:37 or the representatives,
25:39 they think they are
the representative of God or Christ.
25:48 The content is fear,
pleasure, pain,
25:53 anxiety, loneliness, despair
25:59 and the enormous sense
of great sorrow,
26:06 and the fear of death.
26:08 All that is the content,
of every human being in the world,
26:13 whether they live in China,
Asia, India, America or here.
26:21 And when there is
a transformation in consciousness
26:28 it affects the whole of mankind.
26:33 If you have
gone through it you will find out.
26:35 Do it and you will find out.
26:38 So we are going to examine
26:47 the various contents
of consciousness,
26:53 in which compassion
doesn't exist.
27:01 There is pity in it,
there is sympathy,
27:03 there is tolerance,
27:06 there is the desire to help,
27:13 there is
a peculiar form of love,
27:18 but all that is not compassion.
27:25 So we are going to examine
this thing.
27:28 Please understand,
27:32 though the speaker
is sitting on a platform
27:37 it doesn't give him
any authority whatsoever.
27:44 He is sitting there
for convenience
27:47 so that you can see the man
who is speaking, that's all.
27:55 Because we have accepted
for so long the feeling of obedience,
28:06 'Tell us what to do
and we will do it',
28:12 that's not what we are saying.
28:17 When there is understanding
of what compassion is,
28:25 out of that
comes your own clarity and action,
28:29 then you are outside of all
the misery and the confusion,
28:34 and therefore
you can bring about
28:36 a different consciousness
in the world.
28:40 Now let's proceed.
28:48 There's another train coming.
29:10 We're asking whether compassion
29:15 – or love –
is pleasure.
29:24 So we are going to
investigate together,
29:29 – please bear in mind, together –
29:34 what is the significance
and the meaning of pleasure,
29:39 which every human being
is seeking,
29:45 which every human being
is pursuing at any cost.
29:56 What is pleasure?
30:02 The pleasure
derived from possession,
30:08 the pleasure derived
from capacity, talent,
30:16 the pleasure
when you can dominate another,
30:23 the pleasure
30:28 of having tremendous power,
30:30 politically,
religiously, or economically.
30:36 Then there is the pleasure
of sex,
30:41 the pleasure that money gives
30:43 so that you have
a great sense of freedom.
30:50 They're are all
multiple forms of pleasure.
30:56 And if you observe very carefully,
look at yourself
31:01 as though you are
looking at yourself in a mirror,
31:06 you will see that you are pursuing
the same – pleasure.
31:13 It may not be money,
it may not be many possessions,
31:17 but it may be through sex,
31:25 or clinging to
a particular form of experience,
31:30 which has given you
great delight,
31:33 holding on to that,
31:40 or a particular conclusion,
31:44 an ideological conclusion
31:47 that gives you
a sense of great superiority,
31:52 which is a form of pleasure.
31:56 So, what actually
is the meaning of pleasure?
32:03 The word,
32:08 not the pleasure
derived from something,
32:15 but the essence of pleasure.
32:19 Because we discussed the other day
when we met, the nature of fear,
32:26 and whether human beings,
32:28 you as a human being
representing all humanity,
32:32 can be free completely,
totally of fear.
32:38 We went into that very carefully
32:41 and I do not think
we'll go into it again today
32:44 because we won't have time.
32:47 So we're asking:
32:52 what is the nature
and the structure of pleasure,
32:58 which every human being
is seeking.
33:11 In pleasure
there are several things:
33:17 there is enjoyment,
33:24 there is a sense of joy,
33:29 pleasure, enjoyment, joy,
33:34 and further on, ecstasy.
33:39 In the field of pleasure
these are involved:
33:44 pleasure, joy,
33:50 taking delight in something,
33:53 and the sense of ecstasy.
33:59 The meaning of the word
34:02 – please
understand what it means –
34:04 the root meaning is
to be beyond yourself.
34:13 There is no self to enjoy.
34:22 The self, that is the me,
the ego, the personality,
34:26 has all totally disappeared,
34:28 there is only
that sense of being outside.
34:33 That is ecstasy.
34:37 But that ecstasy has nothing
whatsoever to do with pleasure.
34:43 So we're going to look
carefully at pleasure,
34:50 the meaning of it,
in which is included joy,
34:55 taking a delight in something
35:00 and so on.
35:04 I hope
you want to go into this.
35:09 And you may not
want to go into it
35:12 because you may be frightened,
35:14 because you say, for God's sake,
35:16 if you take away pleasure
what have we in life?
35:22 We are not
taking away pleasure.
35:25 We're not saying it's ugly,
wrong, anything of that.
35:29 We are examining it.
35:31 But if you say, don't examine it
too closely because I'm frightened,
35:36 then please don't examine.
35:40 But if you want to understand it,
35:42 see the significance of it,
go into it very deeply,
35:52 then there must be
no blockage by your fear.
36:02 We said: what is pleasure?
36:06 You take a delight in something.
36:14 The delight that comes naturally
36:16 when you look at something
very beautiful.
36:22 At that moment, at that second,
36:27 there is neither pleasure,
nor joy,
36:29 there is only
that sense of great observation.
36:35 And in that observation
the self is not.
36:40 When you look at those mountains
with their snow caps,
36:44 with their valleys,
36:47 the grandeur, the magnificence,
the extraordinary line of it
36:52 drives away all thought.
36:55 There it is,
that great thing in front of you.
37:00 That's a delight.
37:03 Then thought comes along and says,
what a marvellous thing that was,
37:10 what a lovely experience
that was,
37:14 then the memory
of that perception is cultivated,
37:23 then that cultivation
becomes pleasure.
37:27 So where thought interferes
with the sense of beauty,
37:33 the sense of greatness,
grandeur, of anything,
37:39 a piece of poetry,
a sheet of water,
37:43 or a marvellous tree
in a lonely field,
37:51 seeing it
and not registering it.
37:58 Please understand,
this is important.
38:03 The moment you register it,
the beauty of it,
38:09 then that very registration
sets thought into action.
38:14 Then the seeing of that beauty
38:18 and the desire to pursue that beauty
becomes pleasure.
38:31 Are we moving together
38:37 One sees a beautiful woman,
or a man,
38:45 and instantly
it is registered in the brain.
38:54 It is a fact, isn't it?
38:57 Then that very registration
sets thought into motion
39:05 and you want to be in her company,
all the rest of it follows.
39:15 So pleasure is the continuation
39:19 and the cultivation
of an incident by thought,
39:25 which gives a continuity.
39:29 You have had sexual experience
last night or two weeks ago,
39:35 you remember it
and the repetition of it,
39:38 which is
the demand for pleasure.
39:42 This is fairly obvious.
39:46 So the point here is:
39:49 is it possible
not to register?
39:57 You understand?
40:01 The function of the brain
is to register
40:06 because in registration
it is secure,
40:12 it knows what to do.
40:19 And in registration,
knowing what to do,
40:24 in which there is security,
40:27 there is
the development of skill.
40:34 Then that skill becomes
a great pleasure
40:39 which is a talent, a gift,
40:44 all that is the movement
of the continuation of thought
40:49 through desire and pleasure.
40:51 You understand this?
40:54 Can we go on from there?
40:56 Please, I can go on.
40:59 The speaker can go on.
41:01 But are you going along
with the speaker, doing it actually,
41:09 seeing for yourself what is going on
and realise the whole explanation,
41:15 the discovery,
the exploration of it.
41:22 Right?
41:28 So is it possible to register
41:34 only that which is
absolutely necessary,
41:38 and not register anything else?
41:45 Take a very simple thing:
41:48 most of us have had pain,
41:51 physical pain
of some sort or another.
41:57 And that pain is registered
42:02 because my brain says,
42:04 I must be very careful
not to have that pain again tomorrow,
42:09 or a week later,
because physical pain is distorting.
42:17 You can't think clearly
when there is great pain.
42:22 So the brain registers it.
42:26 It's the function of the brain
to register that pain
42:30 so as to safeguard itself,
42:35 so that it doesn't do things
that will bring about pain.
42:41 So it must register.
42:45 Then what takes place?
42:47 Look at it carefully
for yourself.
42:50 It has registered and
42:56 then there is the fear
of that pain happening again later.
43:05 So, that registration
has caused fear.
43:15 We're asking, is it possible,
having had that pain,
43:21 to end it, not carry it on?
43:30 Are you following this?
43:33 Am I making it clear?
43:41 We are talking from actual fact,
not a theory,
43:48 because we've all had pain
of some kind or other,
43:53 great pain or a little pain.
43:57 And having that pain,
end it, not carry over.
44:10 Then the brain has the security
44:15 of being free and intelligent.
44:22 You see that?
44:24 Because the moment you carry it over
it is never free of fear,
44:30 it is never free.
44:37 But having had that pain,
at the end of the day end it,
44:41 don't think about it,
let it worry you,
44:43 my God, it's going to
happen again tomorrow,
44:46 consult the doctor,
take drugs, etc.,
44:49 but end it, and then
you will see for yourself.
44:55 So we are asking, together,
44:57 I am not asking,
you are also asking,
45:03 whether it is possible
not to register at all
45:09 excepting the things
that are absolutely necessary.
45:16 The necessary things
are knowledge,
45:19 how to drive a car,
45:22 how to speak a language,
45:26 technological knowledge
45:30 – please follow this carefully -
45:32 technological knowledge,
the knowledge of reading, writing,
45:37 and all the things
involved in that.
45:45 But in our human relationship,
between man and woman,
45:50 every incident in that relationship
is registered.
45:58 Are you following this?
46:06 It is registered
and therefore what takes place?
46:15 The woman gets irritated,
or nagging,
46:18 or friendly, kindly,
46:20 or says something
just before you go off to the office,
46:22 which is ugly,
46:25 so you build up
46:28 through registration
the image about her,
46:33 and she builds
an image about you.
46:37 This is an actual fact, no?
46:41 For God's sake,
am I saying something extraordinary?
46:55 In human relationship,
between man and woman,
46:59 or between a neighbour
and so on,
47:03 the image-making
is the process of registration.
47:10 That is when
a wife says something ugly,
47:14 to listen to it and end it,
not register it.
47:20 Or when the husband
says something ugly,
47:23 listen to it carefully,
end it, not carry it on.
47:28 Then you will find
that there is no image making at all,
47:37 because if there is no image
between the man and the woman,
47:42 then relationship is quite different
– entirely different!
47:48 But when there is an image
between the two,
47:52 the relationship is between
one thought
47:56 opposed to another thought.
48:01 And that we call relationship,
which actually it's not,
48:06 it's just an idea
48:09 that you are my wife
or my girlfriend, just an idea.
48:15 Do you get all this?
48:19 I hope you are equally active
as the speaker is.
48:31 So we are enquiring
into the question of
48:35 what is the nature
and the structure of pleasure.
48:41 Pleasure
is the continuation of an incident,
48:51 that continuation given
by thought.
48:58 So thought
is the root of pleasure.
49:07 If you had no thought,
you saw a beautiful thing,
49:11 it would end.
49:14 But thought says no,
I must have more,
49:18 the whole movement of thought.
49:21 So what is the relationship
of pleasure to joy?
49:34 Joy comes to you uninvited,
it happens.
49:41 You're walking along in a street
or sitting in a bus,
49:45 or wandering in the woods,
seeing the flowers, the hills,
49:49 and the clouds and the blue sky
49:51 and suddenly there is
an extraordinary feeling of great joy.
49:58 Then registration,
50:02 thought says,
what a marvellous thing that was,
50:05 I must have more of it.
50:07 So joy
is made into pleasure by thought.
50:16 This is not analysis,
this is mere observation.
50:27 That is, seeing things as they are,
not as you want them to be.
50:35 Seeing things exactly
without any distortion,
50:40 what is taking place.
50:46 When you do that
we are together,
50:49 we are journeying together,
50:52 we are exploring together.
50:58 So from that:
51:02 what is love?
51:06 What time is it, sir?
51:09 Audience: Eleven twenty.
51:12 K: What is love?
51:17 Please, again,
we all have so many opinions about it.
51:27 We have got
such extraordinary ideas about it:
51:33 love is this, love is not that,
51:35 you mustn't talk about love
in front of a girl,
51:38 extraordinary things we have.
51:43 Now, we are going to
examine the thing clearly.
51:48 Examine it together.
51:53 The speaker is not
telling you what love is,
51:57 or you are
telling the speaker what love is,
52:01 but we are examining it.
52:06 So you must be free
of your prejudice.
52:10 You must be free of your opinions,
what love should be.
52:17 You are free to look.
52:24 So what is love?
52:28 Is it pleasure?
52:36 As we said, pleasure
is the movement of thought
52:41 and the continuation of an incident
through the movement of thought,
52:45 which is pleasure,
which is explained very carefully,
52:49 it is not my explanation,
you can observe it for yourself.
52:54 And we say, is that pleasure?
52:56 Is the movement of thought
53:02 You understand?
53:06 Is love a remembrance,
53:13 a thing that has happened,
53:17 between a man and woman
that happened,
53:23 and the remembrance of it,
53:26 and living in that remembrance
53:30 and feeling that remembrance
which is over,
53:33 resuscitating it
and saying,
53:37 what a marvellous thing that was when
we were together under that tree,
53:43 that was love.
53:47 That is the remembrance
of a thing that's gone.
53:51 Is that love?
53:55 Is love the pleasure of sex,
54:01 in which there is tenderness,
kindliness, etc.,
54:06 is that love?
54:07 We are not saying
it is or it is not.
54:10 We are questioning,
54:12 as you must question
everything in life!
54:21 Doubt – everything.
54:28 But if you doubt everything
you'll have nothing left.
54:35 Doubt must be kept on a leash,
54:38 as you keep a dog
on a rope or a leash,
54:43 so doubt
must be kept on a leash,
54:46 and you must know when to let it go
and when to hold it back.
54:50 That's the art of doubt.
54:56 So we are doubting, questioning
55:00 everything that man
has put together
55:03 by saying, this is love.
55:10 So we say, is love pleasure?
55:20 If it is,
55:22 then pleasure gives emphasis
to the remembrance,
55:32 to past things,
55:33 brings about importance
of the me:
55:40 my pleasure,
my excitement, my remembrances.
55:47 So is that love?
55:51 And is love desire?
55:55 Ask these questions,
55:59 burn with these questions,
56:02 because you've got to find out,
56:06 because we have reduced love
into pleasure,
56:14 which is a daily fact.
56:20 Is love desire?
56:25 So what is desire?
56:31 I desire a car,
56:34 I desire a house,
56:37 one desires prominence,
power, position.
56:41 There are a dozen things
one desires:
56:45 to be beautiful as you are,
56:47 to be as intelligent, as clever,
as smart as you are,
56:52 desire.
56:56 And what is desire?
57:00 Does desire bring clarity?
57:06 Please question it with me.
57:09 The thing you call love,
57:12 and we are saying
is that love based on desire,
57:19 desire to possess a woman,
57:21 to sleep with a woman,
or sleep with a man,
57:23 desire to hold her, possess her,
dominate her, control her,
57:30 she's mine, not yours.
57:36 And the pleasure
derived in that possession,
57:41 in that dominance.
57:49 Man dominates the world,
57:51 and so there is the woman
fighting the domination.
57:58 So what is the nature
and the structure of desire?
58:06 Desire, not for something,
58:11 not for the house,
for a good car,
58:15 or position, power,
58:16 be prominent in your little society,
in your little pond.
58:22 So we have to find out
what is desire.
58:26 We're not saying
we shouldn't have desire.
58:30 That's what the churches
throughout the world say,
58:33 the organised religions
have said, suppress desire.
58:39 If you want to serve God
you must be without desire.
58:49 And the priests
have maintained that
58:55 but though they talk about
being without desire
58:59 they are burning with desire,
boiling with it.
59:03 They may not want
worldly things,
59:04 they want to become the bishop,
the archbishop, the pope,
59:08 climb the ladder
of spiritual success.
59:18 So what is desire?
59:20 Does desire bring about clarity,
59:26 and therefore that clarity
is skill in action.
59:41 In the field of desire
does compassion flower?
59:48 You have to ask
these questions.
59:51 So to find out
the truth of the matter
59:57 you must examine
what desire is,
59:59 not desire for the object,
the objects are not important,
1:00:03 you can vary,
1:00:05 when you're a child
you desire a toy,
1:00:08 as you grow older
you desire something else.
1:00:12 So we are not discussing,
1:00:14 or talking over together
the objects of desire,
1:00:18 but actually what is desire.
1:00:25 If it does not bring clarity,
1:00:30 and if desire is not the field
in which there is the beauty
1:00:36 and the greatness of compassion,
1:00:40 then what place has desire?
1:00:46 So you must go into it
and find out,
1:00:50 not according
to any psychologist,
1:00:54 any preacher,
1:00:55 including that of the speaker,
1:01:00 but together, to find out.
1:01:04 We are insisting
that we think together,
1:01:09 reason together,
1:01:11 find out together.
1:01:13 Not, I find and then you accept,
or reject,
1:01:17 but together find out.
1:01:22 So what is desire?
1:01:28 Desire for a better society,
1:01:33 and the cultivation of that desire
which becomes passion for an idea.
1:01:42 People are so committed to Communism,
they are passionate about it,
1:01:50 or to any other form
of ideological projection.
1:01:57 It becomes very important
to go into this question
1:02:01 of what is desire,
1:02:04 not how to suppress it,
1:02:07 how to run away from it,
1:02:09 how to make it more beautiful,
1:02:14 but just what is desire?
1:02:16 How does it come about
that human beings are caught in this?
1:02:24 One year you are a Christian,
or for thirty years a Christian,
1:02:29 then you throw that out
1:02:30 and join some other label
called Hindu,
1:02:34 or Buddhist, or whatever it is,
or Zen.
1:02:42 In enquiring
we must deal with facts,
1:02:51 not with opinions,
1:02:53 not with judgements,
1:02:56 then you have your opinion,
1:02:58 and the speaker,
he has no opinion,
1:03:00 and so there is a battle,
therefore there is no communication.
1:03:05 But we are going into facts,
1:03:09 not your fact or my fact,
1:03:12 but the fact that human beings
have colossal desires,
1:03:19 absurd desires,
illusory desires.
1:03:25 So what is desire?
1:03:29 How does it come?
1:03:36 Go into it, look at it,
you have your own desires,
1:03:40 unfortunately or fortunately.
1:03:44 Desire to be good,
you know.
1:03:48 How does that desire
arise from you, in you?
1:03:57 You see a beautiful woman
or a beautiful man
1:04:02 – see.
1:04:05 Perception,
1:04:08 the seeing,
1:04:13 then the contact,
1:04:17 then the sensation,
1:04:22 then that sensation
is taken over by thought,
1:04:26 which becomes desire
with its image.
1:04:31 Follow it yourself,
you will see it.
1:04:36 You see a beautiful vase,
1:04:39 a beautiful sculpture
1:04:42 – I don't mean
the modern sculpture, sorry.
1:04:47 Somebody may like that,
but personally I don't like it –
1:04:51 you see a beautiful statue,
1:04:56 the ancient Egyptian
or the Greek,
1:05:02 and you look at it.
1:05:07 As you look at it,
1:05:08 if they allow you to touch it,
you touch it.
1:05:13 See the depth of that figure
1:05:17 as he sits on a chair,
or cross-legged.
1:05:22 And then from that
there is a sensation, isn't there?
1:05:26 What a marvellous thing.
1:05:30 And from that sensation
the desire says,
1:05:34 I wish I had that in my room.
1:05:41 I wish I could look at it
every day,
1:05:44 touch it every day.
1:05:46 And the pride of possession
1:05:48 to have such a marvellous thing
like that.
1:05:54 That is desire, isn't it?
1:05:57 Seeing,
1:06:00 contact,
1:06:02 sensation,
1:06:05 then thought,
using that sensation
1:06:09 to cultivate the desire
to possess or not to possess.
1:06:16 This is obvious,
it's not my explanation.
1:06:21 It is a factual explanation.
1:06:25 Now comes the difficulty:
1:06:46 realising that the religious people
throughout the world have said,
1:06:56 don't look!
1:07:02 When a woman comes near you
look at something else.
1:07:09 Think of her as your sister, mother,
God, or whatever it is.
1:07:14 You laugh,
you are born in this.
1:07:18 You are conditioned to this.
1:07:27 All the religious people have said,
take vows of celibacy.
1:07:33 Don't look at a woman.
1:07:36 If you do look,
treat her as your sister,
1:07:40 mother,
whatever you like,
1:07:41 because you are
in the service of God,
1:07:44 and you need
all your energy to serve him.
1:07:49 In the service of God
1:07:50 you're going to have
great tribulations,
1:07:54 therefore be prepared,
don't waste your energy.
1:07:58 But the thing is boiling.
1:08:04 So we are trying to understand
that which is boiling.
1:08:10 Not to look at a woman or a man,
1:08:12 but that which is desire
that is constantly battling,
1:08:17 wants to fulfil,
wants to complete itself.
1:08:22 So we said,
desire is the movement of
1:08:28 parception, seeing, contact,
1:08:35 thought as desire
with its image.
1:08:45 We are saying,
1:08:47 see, touch, sensation,
that's normal, healthy, right ?
1:08:56 End it there!
1:08:59 Don't let thought
come and say, yes,
1:09:03 take it over
and make it into a desire.
1:09:08 Understand this,
then you will see.
1:09:11 Then you'll never suppress,
there'll be no suppression of desire.
1:09:17 That is,
1:09:20 you see a beautiful house,
1:09:23 well proportioned,
lovely windows,
1:09:28 beautiful garden,
well kept,
1:09:31 with a roof
that melts into the sky,
1:09:37 walls that are thick,
and, you know,
1:09:41 part of the earth.
1:09:43 You look at it,
there is sensation.
1:09:47 You touch it,
you may not actually touch it,
1:09:50 you touch it with your eyes,
1:09:53 then you smell the air,
the herb, the newly cut grass.
1:10:02 Can't you end it there?
1:10:09 Why does sensation
become desire?
1:10:14 You are following this,
am I making it clear?
1:10:18 When there is perception,
contact, sensation,
1:10:26 it is natural, it's beautiful
1:10:29 to see a lovely thing,
or an ugly thing.
1:10:36 To end it there,
say, it's a beautiful house.
1:10:43 Then there is no registration
as thought which says,
1:10:48 I wish I had that house,
1:10:52 which is the desire
and the continuation of desire.
1:10:56 You can do this so easily!
1:11:01 And I mean it, easily,
1:11:03 if you understand
the nature of desire.
1:11:12 So we're asking:
1:11:16 is pleasure love?
1:11:20 Is remembrance love?
1:11:25 Is desire love?
1:11:29 So pleasure,
remembrance, desire,
1:11:33 are the movement of thought.
1:11:37 Therefore one asks:
1:11:40 does thought cultivate love?
1:11:44 Is thought love?
1:11:49 Am I making this clear?
1:11:51 Please, come on.
1:11:52 A: Yes.
1:11:55 K: So find out.
1:12:01 If it is not pleasure,
1:12:04 because pleasure has its place,
1:12:07 it is not desire,
1:12:09 it is not remembrance
though they have their places,
1:12:13 then what is love?
1:12:19 Is love jealousy?
1:12:24 Is love a sense of possession?
1:12:29 My wife,
my husband, my girl,
1:12:35 possession?
1:12:42 Has love within it fear?
1:12:49 Ask these questions, find out.
1:12:52 Therefore if it is
none of these things
1:12:56 – none of these things! –
1:12:59 entirely wiping away
all these things,
1:13:02 putting all these
in the right place,
1:13:05 then love is
1:13:07 you understand,
then love is!
1:13:21 We are saying
1:13:28 that through the negation
the positive is.
1:13:38 Through negation.
1:13:40 That is,
1:13:44 is pleasure love?
1:13:46 And we examined pleasure
1:13:50 and we see
it's not quite that,
1:13:53 though pleasure has its place,
it's not that, right?
1:13:57 So you negate that.
1:13:59 You say it is not remembrance,
though remembrances are necessary.
1:14:05 So we put remembrance
in its right place,
1:14:08 therefore you have negated
remembrance as not being love.
1:14:12 You have negated desire,
though desire has its certain place.
1:14:17 Therefore you say,
through negation the positive is.
1:14:26 But we, on the contrary,
we posit the positive
1:14:35 and then get caught
in the negative.
1:14:41 That is,
one must begin with doubt,
1:14:46 completely doubting,
1:14:49 then you end up with certainty.
1:14:52 But if you start with certainty,
as all of you do,
1:14:56 then you end up in
uncertainty and chaos.
1:15:03 So, in negation
the positive is born.
1:15:13 I've finished.
1:15:18 I've finished for this morning.
1:15:22 We'll continue next Tuesday.