Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA77T4 - Does compassion flower in the field of desire?

Saanen - 17 July 1977
Public Talk 4

0:22  Krishnamurti: If we may, we'll go on
with what we were talking about
0:26  the other day we met here.
0:32  Some of you
may not have been here
0:39  and so I'll go over it
very briefly.
0:49  First of all,
I would like to point out
0:56  that we are
a gathering of serious people
1:03  – at least I hope so.
1:11  Not a gathering
for intellectuals,
1:17  or romantics,
or sentimentalists
1:21  because we are
dealing with facts,
1:25  the facts of daily life,
1:31  the way of living.
1:36  And,
if one is not at all serious,
1:43  one doesn't see the point
of coming here,
1:46  taking all the trouble
1:49  and sitting down here
for an hour.
1:56  And I hope that
2:01  all of us who are here
are really quite serious,
2:12  because we are concerned
with our daily living,
2:17  which are daily facts.
2:23  Most of us make those facts
into an abstraction,
2:32  to abstract, from the fact,
an idea,
2:37  a conclusion,
2:41  and become prisoners
to those ideas and conclusions.
2:47  We may ventilate those prisons
2:50  but still we live, most of us,
2:54  because we make
abstractions of facts, in prison.
3:02  Please, therefore,
3:06  be good enough to understand
that we are not dealing with ideas,
3:14  some exotic philosophy,
3:22  or dealing
with abstractive conclusions.
3:29  We are here,
if I may again point out,
3:32  as I've been doing for the last
three or four gatherings here,
3:39  that we are sharing
this thing together.
3:46  We are going into problems
that require a great deal of care,
3:53  a great deal of attention.
3:56  One must be very, very serious
3:59  because the house is burning.
4:03  I do not know
if you are aware of all this.
4:06  There is the Communist world
pressing all the time,
4:14  make us believe
in certain ideologies
4:19  and if we don't, we are
either sent to a concentration camp
4:23  or mental hospitals, and so on.
4:26  That is gradually closing in.
4:30  One may not be aware of it now,
4:35  but if you are aware
of the world situation,
4:39  what is happening in the world
4:41  economically,
socially, politically,
4:44  and in preparation for wars,
4:49  one has to become
terribly serious.
4:58  It isn't a thing
you play around with,
5:02  one has to act.
5:06  And as we were saying,
action based on skill,
5:13  which we discussed
last Thursday,
5:21  action based on skill
5:24  must inevitably lead to
separative, fragmentary action.
5:35  Please follow it.
5:38  I'll go into it again
as we did last Thursday.
5:44  Because our education,
5:47  our environment,
sociological demands,
5:53  urge everyone
to develop a particular skill.
6:03  That skill brings about
6:07  not only a sense of power,
6:12  but also such action
born of that skill is very limiting,
6:20  emphasises
the importance of oneself.
6:25  One builds
the structure of oneself,
6:29  the I, the ego.
6:33  And without clarity,
6:38  skill becomes destructive.
6:45  Clarity, we mean by that,
6:48  the clarity that comes
when there is the art of listening,
6:56  the art of seeing,
6:59  the art of learning.
7:03  And we mean by that word art,
7:06  to put everything
in its right place,
7:10  where it belongs.
7:15  Then out of that action,
7:21  which is to give everything
its proper place,
7:27  out of that comes clarity.
7:34  Clarity is not born of logic,
7:40  reason,
7:44  or objective thinking.
7:47  But clarity one must have,
7:50  to act clearly,
wholly, completely.
7:59  One must understand
the meaning of listening,
8:03  the meaning of seeing
8:06  and the art of learning.
8:11  We said the art of listening
8:17  means that you listen
not to your own prejudices,
8:23  not to your own conclusions,
to your own experiences,
8:27  with which
you are quite familiar.
8:31  And with those prejudices,
conditions, you listen,
8:36  then you don't listen at all.
8:41  Then you are merely judging
8:44  what is being said
with what you already know,
8:47  therefore there is
no actual communication or clarity.
8:54  And the art of seeing,
8:58  to look without any direction,
9:04  without any motive,
9:08  to look at the world,
9:11  to look at
what is happening around you,
9:14  politically, religiously,
9:17  and all the things
that the gurus
9:19  unfortunately
are bringing over to Europe,
9:23  to see all that, clearly,
9:28  without any personal demand,
9:34  without any
personal prejudice or want.
9:38  That again needs
a great deal of attention,
9:42  one has to have.
9:44  And also to learn.
9:49  And I think
this is very important to understand.
9:53  To learn implies,
9:57  as most of us know,
10:03  knowledge, facts, information,
10:07  and that information, knowledge,
experience, is stored in the brain
10:14  and according to that knowledge
10:17  you act
skilfully, or not skilfully.
10:29  But when thought
10:32  – which is the result of accumulated
knowledge, experience and memory,
10:38  and therefore reaction
to that memory, which is thought -
10:43  when thought spills over,
as it were,
10:46  into the psychological field
10:49  then it creates havoc,
10:56  which we talked about
sufficiently the other day.
11:01  So if you don't mind
we will not go into that again,
11:05  because we have a lot of things
to talk about still.
11:12  The art of listening,
11:16  the art of seeing
11:20  what is happening around you,
11:23  what is happening inside you,
11:25  what is taking place
in your relationship
11:30  with another, man, woman,
11:32  to see it very clearly.
11:39  Then the art of learning
11:40  brings about
an extraordinary quality of clarity.
11:49  If you have done it,
as you are sitting there,
11:51  if you do it actually,
not theoretically,
11:56  follow it
step by step and do it,
11:59  then you will have
an extraordinary clarity
12:04  from which action takes place.
12:07  And in that clarity,
there comes naturally the skill.
12:14  But what we are doing now
is to develop skill without clarity
12:23  and therefore
whatever we do in the world,
12:27  in our daily lives,
12:29  leads to constant conflict,
misery, confusion.
12:33  That again is very obvious.
12:36  And we were saying
that without compassion,
12:42  clarity in itself
has very little meaning.
12:47  So we are going to
go into this question this morning
12:54  of what is the meaning
and the significance of compassion.
13:03  Before we go into that
13:09  it becomes important
to understand
13:13  that we are
dealing with daily life
13:18  and nothing else,
13:21  because that is
the basis of all relationship
13:25  and therefore all life.
13:36  Most of us are mediocre.
13:41  The word mediocre means,
13:45  the root meaning of that word,
13:49  is to go half way up the hill.
14:01  We all do that,
we just go half way up,
14:05  and that is mediocrity.
14:08  Excellence means
going to the very top of it.
14:17  So we are asking
for excellence,
14:21  not mediocrity,
mediocre action.
14:26  Is that clear?
14:30  To go all the way,
not go half way,
14:36  otherwise we are
going to be smothered,
14:40  destroyed as human beings
14:45  by the politicians,
by the ideologists,
14:48  whether they are Communists,
Socialists and so on,
14:53  or Eurocommunists.
15:00  So we are demanding of ourselves
the highest form of excellence.
15:10  And that excellence
can only come into being
15:14  when there is compassion,
15:18  clarity,
15:21  and from this
compassion and clarity comes skill
15:25  – not the other way around.
15:30  And that's what
we are trying to do,
15:32  to develop skill
and have clarity and then compassion.
15:39  We are saying
quite the contrary.
15:44  So we are going into this question
of what is compassion.
15:50  What is the structure and the nature
of this extraordinary quality,
15:56  which if the human mind
doesn't have,
16:00  it is going to
destroy the world,
16:04  and therefore
destroy human beings.
16:09  We also said in our talks
that each human being,
16:15  you as a human being
16:18  are the representative
of the whole of humanity.
16:24  Which is not an idea
or an abstraction,
16:28  but an actual daily fact.
16:32  That is, wherever you go,
16:35  India, Asia, America
or Europe,
16:39  or even Russia and China,
16:45  human beings
are going through anxiety,
16:52  fear, uncertainty,
16:55  great sense of loneliness,
17:02  they are caught
in the stream of sorrow.
17:05  This is a fact
right through the world.
17:10  So every human being,
17:14  that is you who are here
in this gathering,
17:18  and outside,
17:20  are actually
the entire essence of all humanity.
17:27  That is a fact, you must not only
realise it intellectually but...
17:47  ...realise this fact
not only intellectually
17:50  but with all your being,
17:53  in your blood, in your guts,
17:58  which is an absolute fact.
18:02  So it becomes very important
18:07  for each human being
to realise this,
18:11  that he is responsible.
18:16  When you feel utterly responsible
then you care,
18:23  then you care what kind of
education your children have,
18:27  what kind of literature,
18:30  everything you care.
18:35  So we are going to go
into this question of compassion.
18:51  As we said
18:56  we are examining
the thing together.
19:01  We are reasoning over it
19:05  We are exercising
our highest excellent logic.
19:13  But reason,
19:17  clear, objective thinking,
19:21  and excellent logic
19:25  does not bring about compassion.
19:28  But we must exercise
the qualities that we have,
19:33  which is reason,
19:38  careful observation,
19:41  and from that,
excellency of clear sight.
19:50  We are taking the journey
19:54  and please, see
the importance of this.
19:58  If you merely listen
and accept or reject
20:03  then we are not communicating
with each other.
20:09  The speaker wants to
discuss it over with you, go into it,
20:13  because he feels
it's tremendously urgent, this matter.
20:25  As we are sharing together
this question:
20:32  'what is
the implication of compassion'
20:38  then it becomes
your responsibility
20:48  to think clearly,
20:51  not with
your personal prejudices,
20:54  not with your
particular form of experience,
20:58  or certain conclusions that
you have derived through experience
21:04  or by learning,
reading and so on.
21:08  Then those conclusions,
21:11  will prevent you from
sharing together with another.
21:17  I think that's very clear.
21:23  So we are going together
to explore,
21:29  to investigate,
21:32  not intellectually
but factually,
21:37  in our daily life,
21:41  whatever that life be:
21:42  ugly, sometimes happy,
21:45  sometimes very depressing
and so on,
21:52  whatever it is we are going to
go together and examine all this.
21:59  So please, give your care,
22:04  your attention,
22:05  be serious, for God's sake,
22:08  for your own sake.
22:13  The future
is what you make of it today.
22:20  If you are negligent,
22:23  if you are
merely superficially living,
22:28  then you are
creating a world for the future
22:32  which will be most destructive.
22:37  I do not know if you know
what is happening in the world,
22:43  how the technology
has so far advanced,
22:47  military and all the rest of
the horror that is going on,
22:53  and if you realise it
you have got to do something.
23:00  So let's proceed
23:03  to find out
23:05  – not from the speaker
23:11  because I am not your guru,
23:16  we are not asking
for anyone to follow
23:22  because the follower
destroys truth.
23:30  There is no guru,
there is no follower,
23:33  there is no authority here,
of any kind.
23:42  So we are together
as two human beings,
23:47  deeply concerned,
23:51  not only with our lives
but the lives of humanity,
23:57  to bring about
23:59  a radical psychological transformation
in our consciousness.
24:08  Content makes consciousness
24:10  – content: what it is –
24:13  what is inside that consciousness
makes consciousness.
24:19  Sorry if I am rather emphatic
about all this.
24:26  I am not being dogmatic.
24:28  If you look at it, go into it,
you will find it out for yourself.
24:33  So we are concerned
with the transformation
24:37  of the content
of our human consciousness.
24:46  The human content is
24:50  all the things
that thought has put into it,
24:58  like politics,
the division in politics,
25:01  my country and your country,
25:04  the ideologies,
25:07  the Communist ideologies
25:11  according to Marx and Lenin,
25:14  or Eurocommunism with
their particular brand of Communism.
25:19  The content is all the
religious dogmas, rituals, beliefs,
25:30  the demand that you obey
25:35  because the priests,
or the popes,
25:37  or the representatives,
25:39  they think they are
the representative of God or Christ.
25:48  The content is fear,
pleasure, pain,
25:53  anxiety, loneliness, despair
25:59  and the enormous sense
of great sorrow,
26:06  and the fear of death.
26:08  All that is the content,
of every human being in the world,
26:13  whether they live in China,
Asia, India, America or here.
26:21  And when there is
a transformation in consciousness
26:28  it affects the whole of mankind.
26:33  If you have
gone through it you will find out.
26:35  Do it and you will find out.
26:38  So we are going to examine
26:47  the various contents
of consciousness,
26:53  in which compassion
doesn't exist.
27:01  There is pity in it,
there is sympathy,
27:03  there is tolerance,
27:06  there is the desire to help,
27:13  there is
a peculiar form of love,
27:18  but all that is not compassion.
27:25  So we are going to examine
this thing.
27:28  Please understand,
27:32  though the speaker
is sitting on a platform
27:37  it doesn't give him
any authority whatsoever.
27:44  He is sitting there
for convenience
27:47  so that you can see the man
who is speaking, that's all.
27:55  Because we have accepted
for so long the feeling of obedience,
28:06  'Tell us what to do
and we will do it',
28:12  that's not what we are saying.
28:17  When there is understanding
of what compassion is,
28:25  out of that
comes your own clarity and action,
28:29  then you are outside of all
the misery and the confusion,
28:34  and therefore
you can bring about
28:36  a different consciousness
in the world.
28:40  Now let's proceed.
28:48  There's another train coming.
29:10  We're asking whether compassion
29:15  – or love –
is pleasure.
29:24  So we are going to
investigate together,
29:29  – please bear in mind, together –
29:34  what is the significance
and the meaning of pleasure,
29:39  which every human being
is seeking,
29:45  which every human being
is pursuing at any cost.
29:56  What is pleasure?
30:02  The pleasure
derived from possession,
30:08  the pleasure derived
from capacity, talent,
30:16  the pleasure
when you can dominate another,
30:23  the pleasure
30:28  of having tremendous power,
30:30  politically,
religiously, or economically.
30:36  Then there is the pleasure
of sex,
30:41  the pleasure that money gives
30:43  so that you have
a great sense of freedom.
30:50  They're are all
multiple forms of pleasure.
30:56  And if you observe very carefully,
look at yourself
31:01  as though you are
looking at yourself in a mirror,
31:06  you will see that you are pursuing
the same – pleasure.
31:13  It may not be money,
it may not be many possessions,
31:17  but it may be through sex,
31:25  or clinging to
a particular form of experience,
31:30  which has given you
great delight,
31:33  holding on to that,
31:40  or a particular conclusion,
31:44  an ideological conclusion
31:47  that gives you
a sense of great superiority,
31:52  which is a form of pleasure.
31:56  So, what actually
is the meaning of pleasure?
32:03  The word,
32:08  not the pleasure
derived from something,
32:15  but the essence of pleasure.
32:19  Because we discussed the other day
when we met, the nature of fear,
32:26  and whether human beings,
32:28  you as a human being
representing all humanity,
32:32  can be free completely,
totally of fear.
32:38  We went into that very carefully
32:41  and I do not think
we'll go into it again today
32:44  because we won't have time.
32:47  So we're asking:
32:52  what is the nature
and the structure of pleasure,
32:58  which every human being
is seeking.
33:11  In pleasure
there are several things:
33:17  there is enjoyment,
33:24  there is a sense of joy,
33:29  pleasure, enjoyment, joy,
33:34  and further on, ecstasy.
33:39  In the field of pleasure
these are involved:
33:44  pleasure, joy,
33:50  taking delight in something,
33:53  and the sense of ecstasy.
33:59  The meaning of the word
34:02  – please
understand what it means –
34:04  the root meaning is
to be beyond yourself.
34:13  There is no self to enjoy.
34:22  The self, that is the me,
the ego, the personality,
34:26  has all totally disappeared,
34:28  there is only
that sense of being outside.
34:33  That is ecstasy.
34:37  But that ecstasy has nothing
whatsoever to do with pleasure.
34:43  So we're going to look
carefully at pleasure,
34:50  the meaning of it,
in which is included joy,
34:55  taking a delight in something
35:00  and so on.
35:04  I hope
you want to go into this.
35:09  And you may not
want to go into it
35:12  because you may be frightened,
35:14  because you say, for God's sake,
35:16  if you take away pleasure
what have we in life?
35:22  We are not
taking away pleasure.
35:25  We're not saying it's ugly,
wrong, anything of that.
35:29  We are examining it.
35:31  But if you say, don't examine it
too closely because I'm frightened,
35:36  then please don't examine.
35:40  But if you want to understand it,
35:42  see the significance of it,
go into it very deeply,
35:52  then there must be
no blockage by your fear.
36:02  We said: what is pleasure?
36:06  You take a delight in something.
36:14  The delight that comes naturally
36:16  when you look at something
very beautiful.
36:22  At that moment, at that second,
36:27  there is neither pleasure,
nor joy,
36:29  there is only
that sense of great observation.
36:35  And in that observation
the self is not.
36:40  When you look at those mountains
with their snow caps,
36:44  with their valleys,
36:47  the grandeur, the magnificence,
the extraordinary line of it
36:52  drives away all thought.
36:55  There it is,
that great thing in front of you.
37:00  That's a delight.
37:03  Then thought comes along and says,
what a marvellous thing that was,
37:10  what a lovely experience
that was,
37:14  then the memory
of that perception is cultivated,
37:23  then that cultivation
becomes pleasure.
37:27  So where thought interferes
with the sense of beauty,
37:33  the sense of greatness,
grandeur, of anything,
37:39  a piece of poetry,
a sheet of water,
37:43  or a marvellous tree
in a lonely field,
37:51  seeing it
and not registering it.
37:58  Please understand,
this is important.
38:03  The moment you register it,
the beauty of it,
38:09  then that very registration
sets thought into action.
38:14  Then the seeing of that beauty
38:18  and the desire to pursue that beauty
becomes pleasure.
38:31  Are we moving together
38:37  One sees a beautiful woman,
or a man,
38:45  and instantly
it is registered in the brain.
38:54  It is a fact, isn't it?
38:57  Then that very registration
sets thought into motion
39:05  and you want to be in her company,
all the rest of it follows.
39:15  So pleasure is the continuation
39:19  and the cultivation
of an incident by thought,
39:25  which gives a continuity.
39:29  You have had sexual experience
last night or two weeks ago,
39:35  you remember it
and the repetition of it,
39:38  which is
the demand for pleasure.
39:42  This is fairly obvious.
39:46  So the point here is:
39:49  is it possible
not to register?
39:57  You understand?
40:01  The function of the brain
is to register
40:06  because in registration
it is secure,
40:12  it knows what to do.
40:19  And in registration,
knowing what to do,
40:24  in which there is security,
40:27  there is
the development of skill.
40:34  Then that skill becomes
a great pleasure
40:39  which is a talent, a gift,
40:44  all that is the movement
of the continuation of thought
40:49  through desire and pleasure.
40:51  You understand this?
40:54  Can we go on from there?
40:56  Please, I can go on.
40:59  The speaker can go on.
41:01  But are you going along
with the speaker, doing it actually,
41:09  seeing for yourself what is going on
and realise the whole explanation,
41:15  the discovery,
the exploration of it.
41:22  Right?
41:28  So is it possible to register
41:34  only that which is
absolutely necessary,
41:38  and not register anything else?
41:45  Take a very simple thing:
41:48  most of us have had pain,
41:51  physical pain
of some sort or another.
41:57  And that pain is registered
42:02  because my brain says,
42:04  I must be very careful
not to have that pain again tomorrow,
42:09  or a week later,
because physical pain is distorting.
42:17  You can't think clearly
when there is great pain.
42:22  So the brain registers it.
42:26  It's the function of the brain
to register that pain
42:30  so as to safeguard itself,
42:35  so that it doesn't do things
that will bring about pain.
42:41  So it must register.
42:45  Then what takes place?
42:47  Look at it carefully
for yourself.
42:50  It has registered and
42:56  then there is the fear
of that pain happening again later.
43:05  So, that registration
has caused fear.
43:15  We're asking, is it possible,
having had that pain,
43:21  to end it, not carry it on?
43:30  Are you following this?
43:33  Am I making it clear?
43:41  We are talking from actual fact,
not a theory,
43:48  because we've all had pain
of some kind or other,
43:53  great pain or a little pain.
43:57  And having that pain,
end it, not carry over.
44:10  Then the brain has the security
44:15  of being free and intelligent.
44:22  You see that?
44:24  Because the moment you carry it over
it is never free of fear,
44:30  it is never free.
44:37  But having had that pain,
at the end of the day end it,
44:41  don't think about it,
let it worry you,
44:43  my God, it's going to
happen again tomorrow,
44:46  consult the doctor,
take drugs, etc.,
44:49  but end it, and then
you will see for yourself.
44:55  So we are asking, together,
44:57  I am not asking,
you are also asking,
45:03  whether it is possible
not to register at all
45:09  excepting the things
that are absolutely necessary.
45:16  The necessary things
are knowledge,
45:19  how to drive a car,
45:22  how to speak a language,
45:26  technological knowledge
45:30  – please follow this carefully -
45:32  technological knowledge,
the knowledge of reading, writing,
45:37  and all the things
involved in that.
45:45  But in our human relationship,
between man and woman,
45:50  every incident in that relationship
is registered.
45:58  Are you following this?
46:06  It is registered
and therefore what takes place?
46:15  The woman gets irritated,
or nagging,
46:18  or friendly, kindly,
46:20  or says something
just before you go off to the office,
46:22  which is ugly,
46:25  so you build up
46:28  through registration
the image about her,
46:33  and she builds
an image about you.
46:37  This is an actual fact, no?
46:41  For God's sake,
am I saying something extraordinary?
46:55  In human relationship,
between man and woman,
46:59  or between a neighbour
and so on,
47:03  the image-making
is the process of registration.
47:10  That is when
a wife says something ugly,
47:14  to listen to it and end it,
not register it.
47:20  Or when the husband
says something ugly,
47:23  listen to it carefully,
end it, not carry it on.
47:28  Then you will find
that there is no image making at all,
47:37  because if there is no image
between the man and the woman,
47:42  then relationship is quite different
– entirely different!
47:48  But when there is an image
between the two,
47:52  the relationship is between
one thought
47:56  opposed to another thought.
48:01  And that we call relationship,
which actually it's not,
48:06  it's just an idea
48:09  that you are my wife
or my girlfriend, just an idea.
48:15  Do you get all this?
48:19  I hope you are equally active
as the speaker is.
48:31  So we are enquiring
into the question of
48:35  what is the nature
and the structure of pleasure.
48:41  Pleasure
is the continuation of an incident,
48:51  that continuation given
by thought.
48:58  So thought
is the root of pleasure.
49:07  If you had no thought,
you saw a beautiful thing,
49:11  it would end.
49:14  But thought says no,
I must have more,
49:18  the whole movement of thought.
49:21  So what is the relationship
of pleasure to joy?
49:34  Joy comes to you uninvited,
it happens.
49:41  You're walking along in a street
or sitting in a bus,
49:45  or wandering in the woods,
seeing the flowers, the hills,
49:49  and the clouds and the blue sky
49:51  and suddenly there is
an extraordinary feeling of great joy.
49:58  Then registration,
50:02  thought says,
what a marvellous thing that was,
50:05  I must have more of it.
50:07  So joy
is made into pleasure by thought.
50:16  This is not analysis,
this is mere observation.
50:27  That is, seeing things as they are,
not as you want them to be.
50:35  Seeing things exactly
without any distortion,
50:40  what is taking place.
50:46  When you do that
we are together,
50:49  we are journeying together,
50:52  we are exploring together.
50:58  So from that:
51:02  what is love?
51:06  What time is it, sir?
51:09  Audience: Eleven twenty.
51:12  K: What is love?
51:17  Please, again,
we all have so many opinions about it.
51:27  We have got
such extraordinary ideas about it:
51:33  love is this, love is not that,
51:35  you mustn't talk about love
in front of a girl,
51:38  extraordinary things we have.
51:43  Now, we are going to
examine the thing clearly.
51:48  Examine it together.
51:53  The speaker is not
telling you what love is,
51:57  or you are
telling the speaker what love is,
52:01  but we are examining it.
52:06  So you must be free
of your prejudice.
52:10  You must be free of your opinions,
what love should be.
52:17  You are free to look.
52:24  So what is love?
52:28  Is it pleasure?
52:36  As we said, pleasure
is the movement of thought
52:41  and the continuation of an incident
through the movement of thought,
52:45  which is pleasure,
which is explained very carefully,
52:49  it is not my explanation,
you can observe it for yourself.
52:54  And we say, is that pleasure?
52:56  Is the movement of thought
53:02  You understand?
53:06  Is love a remembrance,
53:13  a thing that has happened,
53:17  between a man and woman
that happened,
53:23  and the remembrance of it,
53:26  and living in that remembrance
53:30  and feeling that remembrance
which is over,
53:33  resuscitating it
and saying,
53:37  what a marvellous thing that was when
we were together under that tree,
53:43  that was love.
53:47  That is the remembrance
of a thing that's gone.
53:51  Is that love?
53:55  Is love the pleasure of sex,
54:01  in which there is tenderness,
kindliness, etc.,
54:06  is that love?
54:07  We are not saying
it is or it is not.
54:10  We are questioning,
54:12  as you must question
everything in life!
54:21  Doubt – everything.
54:28  But if you doubt everything
you'll have nothing left.
54:35  Doubt must be kept on a leash,
54:38  as you keep a dog
on a rope or a leash,
54:43  so doubt
must be kept on a leash,
54:46  and you must know when to let it go
and when to hold it back.
54:50  That's the art of doubt.
54:56  So we are doubting, questioning
55:00  everything that man
has put together
55:03  by saying, this is love.
55:10  So we say, is love pleasure?
55:20  If it is,
55:22  then pleasure gives emphasis
to the remembrance,
55:32  to past things,
55:33  brings about importance
of the me:
55:40  my pleasure,
my excitement, my remembrances.
55:47  So is that love?
55:51  And is love desire?
55:55  Ask these questions,
55:59  burn with these questions,
56:02  because you've got to find out,
56:06  because we have reduced love
into pleasure,
56:14  which is a daily fact.
56:20  Is love desire?
56:25  So what is desire?
56:31  I desire a car,
56:34  I desire a house,
56:37  one desires prominence,
power, position.
56:41  There are a dozen things
one desires:
56:45  to be beautiful as you are,
56:47  to be as intelligent, as clever,
as smart as you are,
56:52  desire.
56:56  And what is desire?
57:00  Does desire bring clarity?
57:06  Please question it with me.
57:09  The thing you call love,
57:12  and we are saying
is that love based on desire,
57:19  desire to possess a woman,
57:21  to sleep with a woman,
or sleep with a man,
57:23  desire to hold her, possess her,
dominate her, control her,
57:30  she's mine, not yours.
57:36  And the pleasure
derived in that possession,
57:41  in that dominance.
57:49  Man dominates the world,
57:51  and so there is the woman
fighting the domination.
57:58  So what is the nature
and the structure of desire?
58:06  Desire, not for something,
58:11  not for the house,
for a good car,
58:15  or position, power,
58:16  be prominent in your little society,
in your little pond.
58:22  So we have to find out
what is desire.
58:26  We're not saying
we shouldn't have desire.
58:30  That's what the churches
throughout the world say,
58:33  the organised religions
have said, suppress desire.
58:39  If you want to serve God
you must be without desire.
58:49  And the priests
have maintained that
58:55  but though they talk about
being without desire
58:59  they are burning with desire,
boiling with it.
59:03  They may not want
worldly things,
59:04  they want to become the bishop,
the archbishop, the pope,
59:08  climb the ladder
of spiritual success.
59:18  So what is desire?
59:20  Does desire bring about clarity,
59:26  and therefore that clarity
is skill in action.
59:41  In the field of desire
does compassion flower?
59:48  You have to ask
these questions.
59:51  So to find out
the truth of the matter
59:57  you must examine
what desire is,
59:59  not desire for the object,
the objects are not important,
1:00:03  you can vary,
1:00:05  when you're a child
you desire a toy,
1:00:08  as you grow older
you desire something else.
1:00:12  So we are not discussing,
1:00:14  or talking over together
the objects of desire,
1:00:18  but actually what is desire.
1:00:25  If it does not bring clarity,
1:00:30  and if desire is not the field
in which there is the beauty
1:00:36  and the greatness of compassion,
1:00:40  then what place has desire?
1:00:46  So you must go into it
and find out,
1:00:50  not according
to any psychologist,
1:00:54  any preacher,
1:00:55  including that of the speaker,
1:01:00  but together, to find out.
1:01:04  We are insisting
that we think together,
1:01:09  reason together,
1:01:11  find out together.
1:01:13  Not, I find and then you accept,
or reject,
1:01:17  but together find out.
1:01:22  So what is desire?
1:01:28  Desire for a better society,
1:01:33  and the cultivation of that desire
which becomes passion for an idea.
1:01:42  People are so committed to Communism,
they are passionate about it,
1:01:50  or to any other form
of ideological projection.
1:01:57  It becomes very important
to go into this question
1:02:01  of what is desire,
1:02:04  not how to suppress it,
1:02:07  how to run away from it,
1:02:09  how to make it more beautiful,
1:02:14  but just what is desire?
1:02:16  How does it come about
that human beings are caught in this?
1:02:24  One year you are a Christian,
or for thirty years a Christian,
1:02:29  then you throw that out
1:02:30  and join some other label
called Hindu,
1:02:34  or Buddhist, or whatever it is,
or Zen.
1:02:42  In enquiring
we must deal with facts,
1:02:51  not with opinions,
1:02:53  not with judgements,
1:02:56  then you have your opinion,
1:02:58  and the speaker,
he has no opinion,
1:03:00  and so there is a battle,
therefore there is no communication.
1:03:05  But we are going into facts,
1:03:09  not your fact or my fact,
1:03:12  but the fact that human beings
have colossal desires,
1:03:19  absurd desires,
illusory desires.
1:03:25  So what is desire?
1:03:29  How does it come?
1:03:36  Go into it, look at it,
you have your own desires,
1:03:40  unfortunately or fortunately.
1:03:44  Desire to be good,
you know.
1:03:48  How does that desire
arise from you, in you?
1:03:57  You see a beautiful woman
or a beautiful man
1:04:02  – see.
1:04:05  Perception,
1:04:08  the seeing,
1:04:13  then the contact,
1:04:17  then the sensation,
1:04:22  then that sensation
is taken over by thought,
1:04:26  which becomes desire
with its image.
1:04:31  Follow it yourself,
you will see it.
1:04:36  You see a beautiful vase,
1:04:39  a beautiful sculpture
1:04:42  – I don't mean
the modern sculpture, sorry.
1:04:47  Somebody may like that,
but personally I don't like it –
1:04:51  you see a beautiful statue,
1:04:56  the ancient Egyptian
or the Greek,
1:05:02  and you look at it.
1:05:07  As you look at it,
1:05:08  if they allow you to touch it,
you touch it.
1:05:13  See the depth of that figure
1:05:17  as he sits on a chair,
or cross-legged.
1:05:22  And then from that
there is a sensation, isn't there?
1:05:26  What a marvellous thing.
1:05:30  And from that sensation
the desire says,
1:05:34  I wish I had that in my room.
1:05:41  I wish I could look at it
every day,
1:05:44  touch it every day.
1:05:46  And the pride of possession
1:05:48  to have such a marvellous thing
like that.
1:05:54  That is desire, isn't it?
1:05:57  Seeing,
1:06:00  contact,
1:06:02  sensation,
1:06:05  then thought,
using that sensation
1:06:09  to cultivate the desire
to possess or not to possess.
1:06:16  This is obvious,
it's not my explanation.
1:06:21  It is a factual explanation.
1:06:25  Now comes the difficulty:
1:06:46  realising that the religious people
throughout the world have said,
1:06:56  don't look!
1:07:02  When a woman comes near you
look at something else.
1:07:09  Think of her as your sister, mother,
God, or whatever it is.
1:07:14  You laugh,
you are born in this.
1:07:18  You are conditioned to this.
1:07:27  All the religious people have said,
take vows of celibacy.
1:07:33  Don't look at a woman.
1:07:36  If you do look,
treat her as your sister,
1:07:40  mother,
whatever you like,
1:07:41  because you are
in the service of God,
1:07:44  and you need
all your energy to serve him.
1:07:49  In the service of God
1:07:50  you're going to have
great tribulations,
1:07:54  therefore be prepared,
don't waste your energy.
1:07:58  But the thing is boiling.
1:08:04  So we are trying to understand
that which is boiling.
1:08:10  Not to look at a woman or a man,
1:08:12  but that which is desire
that is constantly battling,
1:08:17  wants to fulfil,
wants to complete itself.
1:08:22  So we said,
desire is the movement of
1:08:28  parception, seeing, contact,
1:08:35  thought as desire
with its image.
1:08:45  We are saying,
1:08:47  see, touch, sensation,
that's normal, healthy, right ?
1:08:56  End it there!
1:08:59  Don't let thought
come and say, yes,
1:09:03  take it over
and make it into a desire.
1:09:08  Understand this,
then you will see.
1:09:11  Then you'll never suppress,
there'll be no suppression of desire.
1:09:17  That is,
1:09:20  you see a beautiful house,
1:09:23  well proportioned,
lovely windows,
1:09:28  beautiful garden,
well kept,
1:09:31  with a roof
that melts into the sky,
1:09:37  walls that are thick,
and, you know,
1:09:41  part of the earth.
1:09:43  You look at it,
there is sensation.
1:09:47  You touch it,
you may not actually touch it,
1:09:50  you touch it with your eyes,
1:09:53  then you smell the air,
the herb, the newly cut grass.
1:10:02  Can't you end it there?
1:10:09  Why does sensation
become desire?
1:10:14  You are following this,
am I making it clear?
1:10:18  When there is perception,
contact, sensation,
1:10:26  it is natural, it's beautiful
1:10:29  to see a lovely thing,
or an ugly thing.
1:10:36  To end it there,
say, it's a beautiful house.
1:10:43  Then there is no registration
as thought which says,
1:10:48  I wish I had that house,
1:10:52  which is the desire
and the continuation of desire.
1:10:56  You can do this so easily!
1:11:01  And I mean it, easily,
1:11:03  if you understand
the nature of desire.
1:11:12  So we're asking:
1:11:16  is pleasure love?
1:11:20  Is remembrance love?
1:11:25  Is desire love?
1:11:29  So pleasure,
remembrance, desire,
1:11:33  are the movement of thought.
1:11:37  Therefore one asks:
1:11:40  does thought cultivate love?
1:11:44  Is thought love?
1:11:49  Am I making this clear?
1:11:51  Please, come on.
1:11:52  A: Yes.
1:11:55  K: So find out.
1:12:01  If it is not pleasure,
1:12:04  because pleasure has its place,
1:12:07  it is not desire,
1:12:09  it is not remembrance
though they have their places,
1:12:13  then what is love?
1:12:19  Is love jealousy?
1:12:24  Is love a sense of possession?
1:12:29  My wife,
my husband, my girl,
1:12:35  possession?
1:12:42  Has love within it fear?
1:12:49  Ask these questions, find out.
1:12:52  Therefore if it is
none of these things
1:12:56  – none of these things! –
1:12:59  entirely wiping away
all these things,
1:13:02  putting all these
in the right place,
1:13:05  then love is
1:13:07  you understand,
then love is!
1:13:21  We are saying
1:13:28  that through the negation
the positive is.
1:13:38  Through negation.
1:13:40  That is,
1:13:44  is pleasure love?
1:13:46  And we examined pleasure
1:13:50  and we see
it's not quite that,
1:13:53  though pleasure has its place,
it's not that, right?
1:13:57  So you negate that.
1:13:59  You say it is not remembrance,
though remembrances are necessary.
1:14:05  So we put remembrance
in its right place,
1:14:08  therefore you have negated
remembrance as not being love.
1:14:12  You have negated desire,
though desire has its certain place.
1:14:17  Therefore you say,
through negation the positive is.
1:14:26  But we, on the contrary,
we posit the positive
1:14:35  and then get caught
in the negative.
1:14:41  That is,
one must begin with doubt,
1:14:46  completely doubting,
1:14:49  then you end up with certainty.
1:14:52  But if you start with certainty,
as all of you do,
1:14:56  then you end up in
uncertainty and chaos.
1:15:03  So, in negation
the positive is born.
1:15:13  I've finished.
1:15:18  I've finished for this morning.
1:15:22  We'll continue next Tuesday.