Krishnamurti Subtitles

Is there a way out of the crisis in the world?

Saanen - 8 July 1979

Public Talk 1

0:33 Krishnamurti:
I didn’t expect so many people.
1:01 I wonder
what we shall talk about.
1:25 It seems to me
1:30 that our self-centred problems
1:37 and the problems that lie
beyond our own personal crises,
1:47 disturbances and miseries,
1:51 the world about us is more or less
in chaos, in great confusion.
2:00 I think everybody will admit that
2:03 without a great deal of trouble,
with a great deal of investigation.
2:09 And nobody apparently
sees a solution for this,
2:15 neither politically,
nor religiously, nor economically.
2:24 That again is an obvious fact.
2:29 And nobody asks
if there is a way out of all this,
2:39 the trap in which human beings
have been caught for millennia,
2:47 if there is any way out of this
mess, confusion, turmoil, terror.
3:00 Not finding an answer,
3:05 many people resort
to the old traditions,
3:13 join old religions,
or form a small community
3:21 hoping thereby to solve
their own particular problems.
3:31 And I may suggest
that there is a way out of all this,
3:41 out of our present continuous
misery, conflict, strife,
3:51 various forms of terror
3:57 and the threatening wars,
4:04 not only near but far.
4:10 So to investigate all this
4:16 and find out if there is
a solution, a way out,
4:22 without suppression, without escape,
4:28 without any kind of illusion.
4:35 And if you will have
the patience, energy
4:47 and the serious responsibility
that is involved,
4:53 we can think together.
5:04 I hope you are prepared for that
– thinking together.
5:13 There are two different
kinds of thinking:
5:17 one, thinking about something –
5:20 about a problem,
about a personal issue,
5:27 or about the world,
and so on.
5:33 That is, thinking about something.
5:41 And is there
another kind of thinking
5:46 which is not about something?
5:53 Please, carefully,
I will go into this
6:01 widely and deeply if I may.
6:05 So we are asking:
6:08 our minds are accustomed
to think about something
6:14 – about a problem,
out of our personal desires,
6:22 fulfilments, sorrow, anxiety,
and so on – about something.
6:32 And we are accustomed to that,
‘thinking about’.
6:41 We are asking, not about something
but thinking itself.
6:57 If this issue is clear,
7:02 not about something
which will come later on,
7:06 but thinking together.
7:15 Please, see the difference:
7:18 thinking together does not mean
that you agree or disagree,
7:24 accept or reject,
defend or offend,
7:30 but together find out
7:38 if it is possible
7:43 by thinking together
we can act together,
7:54 not about something
7:59 – please, apply your minds
to this a little bit –
8:02 not about something,
which we can more or less do.
8:08 We can agree
to act in a certain way,
8:13 we can put our minds together
8:20 to investigate a certain problem,
8:25 but we are not going into that
for the present.
8:31 But we are asking:
8:34 thinking together
without any barriers,
8:42 without any inhibitions,
without any prejudice,
8:49 letting go your
personal experiences,
8:55 your personal urge to fulfil.
9:03 Which means you and the speaker,
9:11 be free to think.
9:18 Is this somewhat clear?
9:24 Please, this needs
a great deal of investigation
9:30 because we are
9:34 to think together
about certain ideas,
9:41 about certain conclusions,
9:45 philosophical, historical,
and so on.
9:51 Then there are those who agree,
and those who disagree.
9:58 They form two camps,
10:02 each opposing the other,
10:09 which is what is
happening in the world.
10:13 The Totalitarian,
the so-called Democratic,
10:18 the Capitalists and the Marxists,
and so on,
10:24 agreeing and disagreeing,
opposing and defending.
10:34 Whereas we are asking,
10:37 if we could think together
10:46 you letting go all your experiences,
10:53 your conclusions, your desires,
prejudices, and so on,
11:01 putting them aside,
11:05 so that together we can think.
11:18 Will you do that?
11:23 You and the speaker
putting aside his beliefs,
11:33 his opinions and judgements
and evaluations,
11:38 his hopes, and so on,
11:41 and together think,
11:45 not about something,
but think.
11:52 Shall we do it?
11:58 Which means
12:01 that being free
of our own personal problems,
12:11 urges, demands,
fulfilments, and so on,
12:20 being free to investigate together,
12:31 not investigate into something,
12:36 but the capacity,
the spirit of investigation.
12:47 Is this somewhat clear?
12:58 Which requires
not only that you listen,
13:10 not to what is being said,
13:14 but to listen to the quality
of a mind that is thinking,
13:25 not with regard to something,
13:31 but listening to the whole
quality of thinking,
13:45 which requires certain
awareness and attention.
13:55 Right?
13:58 Where there is attention
14:01 there is no centre
from which you are attending.
14:12 I wonder if you are doing it
as we are talking.
14:18 That is, when you attend,
14:26 in which there is no division,
14:35 then in that attention
14:42 thought is not
your thought or my thought,
14:48 it is thinking.
14:55 Can we proceed
along these lines?
15:00 Are we following each other?
15:08 When you give your attention,
15:12 which means
15:25 to give all your mind,
your heart, your nerves,
15:29 to completely give attention,
15:35 do you find that there is a centre
from which you are attending?
15:44 So in that attention,
15:46 there is not your thinking
and the speaker thinking,
15:53 there is only a quality
of total attention.
15:59 Right?
16:01 Don’t look so mystified,
16:07 it is really quite simple.
16:22 You see,
16:25 our thinking,
ordinary everyday thinking,
16:31 is with regard
to a certain subject,
16:36 to a certain action,
to a certain problem
16:40 – thinking about something.
16:44 Right?
16:47 That thinking is from an experience,
16:54 from a memory,
from a knowledge,
17:00 therefore it is your experience
opposed to another’s experience.
17:08 So there is always division.
17:13 Right?
17:16 Please, follow this.
17:21 You have your opinion
and another has his opinion,
17:27 and the two divisive opinions,
dividing opinions
17:32 can never come together.
17:36 If you believe in something
17:39 and another believes
in something else strongly,
17:45 then there is wide cleavage.
17:53 To that way of thinking
we are accustomed.
17:57 Right?
18:03 Now we are asking:
18:06 that thinking can
never be ‘together’
18:12 because it is always either
opposing, defending or accepting.
18:20 Whereas we are saying
something entirely different.
18:26 Thinking together implies
18:30 that you and the other have let go
all their prejudices, and all that
18:37 – thinking together –
18:43 because in that thinking together
18:48 there is no your thinking
and my thinking separate,
18:55 it is together thinking.
18:59 Right?
19:01 Have you understood this?
19:03 No, please, this is very serious
19:04 because it is either you accept it
as an intellectual concept,
19:13 which then becomes
your concept and his concept.
19:22 If you merely accept
the verbal explanation
19:28 and draw from that explanation
a conclusion
19:32 according to your experience,
knowledge, prejudices,
19:36 and the other does the same,
19:38 there is no coming together.
19:40 You are following all this?
19:48 It is important that
we come together in our thinking
20:00 so that there is no barrier
20:03 between your thinking
and my thinking,
20:06 his or hers.
20:12 Can we do this together?
20:19 Because from this
we can proceed,
20:26 because your mind then
has a totally different quality.
20:34 It is entirely objective,
nothing personal.
20:45 The self-centred problems
20:49 with which we are burdened
20:54 can never be solved
20:57 unless there is
a different quality of thinking
21:03 or a different quality
of perception,
21:11 a different quality
of insight into the problem.
21:20 Right?
21:22 I wonder
if you are following all this.
21:34 So our question then is:
21:37 is it possible that two people,
21:42 a group of people,
21:48 undertake this responsibility?
21:58 That putting aside your anxiety,
attachment, and so on,
22:10 and the other – meet,
22:15 so that there is never
a question of division,
22:20 opinion opposing opinion,
22:22 knowledge opposing knowledge,
22:25 experience contradicting
another experience
22:30 – you are following this?
22:31 So that our minds are together.
22:40 The totalitarian states
want this.
22:50 They are the authority
22:52 and they lay down what people
should think, act, and so on.
23:01 That is what is happening.
23:03 If you disagree,
you are either shot,
23:06 sent to a concentration camp,
or exiled.
23:11 We are not saying that at all.
23:14 On the contrary.
23:20 Two minds educated,
23:27 concerned with the world
23:34 and are committed to find out
23:40 whether there is a way out of this,
23:47 out of the trap,
23:48 out of this terrible mess
23:50 that man has created
for himself and for others.
23:57 Can we do this together?
24:01 Hai capito?
24:04 You understand the question now?
24:08 Together – our minds are equal,
24:15 so the speaker is not telling you
what to do,
24:21 and you obey,
or disregard, or accept,
24:26 but our minds are together,
24:32 being free to solve our problems.
24:38 Right?
24:42 Can we do this?
24:47 Will you give up
your Zen meditation,
24:53 give up your particular guru?
24:58 Give up your belief,
25:02 your own experience
to which you cling to,
25:09 your own personal
self-interested problems,
25:15 let go
and then meet together.
25:19 Do you see what takes place
if you can do this?
25:30 Then we can investigate together
25:33 every problem very simply
and clearly and directly, and act.
25:41 That is clarity.
25:46 To observe,
25:51 to see without any distortion,
25:55 to listen completely
26:00 without making an abstraction
26:03 of what you are listening to
into an idea.
26:08 Therefore there is only listening,
26:12 there is only then seeing,
26:16 not you see and I see differently,
there is only seeing together.
26:39 Right?
26:44 You see,
we have instantly moved away
26:48 from our own little sphere,
26:52 from our own backyard,
26:59 from our own self-concerned
innumerable problems.
27:11 Have you?
27:12 Please, this is serious
if we want to talk together,
27:16 this is really important.
27:21 Or do you carry the burden
27:24 of all the troubles, anxieties,
griefs and sorrows,
27:30 and try to listen to another fellow,
to what he is talking about?
27:39 If you do that,
27:41 then you are trying to conform
to the pattern set by another,
27:52 obviously,
27:57 and so there is always division.
28:02 Right?
28:08 So we are asking
something very serious,
28:16 and as you have taken the trouble
to come into this tent
28:23 – expenditure, energy,
28:26 petrol, and all the rest of it –
28:32 are we together thinking?
28:47 Not you think and I think
– thinking together.
29:06 Then we can go
into this question of time,
29:16 – thinking together –
not your time, my time.
29:25 It is very important
29:27 because we are going to find out
if we think together,
29:30 whether there is
psychologically tomorrow at all,
29:42 because that may be
either an illusion or a reality:
29:53 that there is
psychologically tomorrow
29:58 – tomorrow means many,
many tomorrows.
30:05 Either that may be an illusion,
30:10 and so, being an illusion,
we can put that aside
30:15 and face this question
30:19 whether there is psychologically
30:23 a progressive evolutionary
movement, which is time.
30:31 I wonder if you follow all this?
30:35 Are you used to my language
and therefore you can go to sleep?
30:42 You might say, ‘Oh, yes,
I have heard all this before’.
30:52 If you so think,
30:57 then you are not
discovering for yourself,
31:02 you are not
thinking together.
31:09 You have already stopped
thinking together and say,
31:13 ‘I’ve heard it before’.
31:18 Because we are going
very, very deeply into this
31:24 therefore it is
the first time you hear it.
31:31 The speaker has been talking
in this tent for the last 19 years,
31:37 next year it will be 20 years.
31:41 And probably you will
all turn up and say,
31:44 ‘Oh, lord, he is back again,
caught in a rut’.
31:53 We are not caught in a rut.
31:57 We are free to listen,
to observe,
32:07 and that very observation,
32:28 listening reveals the truth,
32:33 not the idea about truth.
32:38 So we are asking
a very serious question,
32:44 because all our conditioning,
all our education,
32:47 both religious,
32:52 personal and worldly,
32:55 is allowing or giving time
to achieve something.
33:03 One needs time to learn a language,
33:07 one needs time to learn
how to drive a car,
33:15 time is necessary for acquiring
skill, technological skill.
33:21 To be a good carpenter,
you need time.
33:29 But we are asking
something entirely different.
33:33 There time is necessary.
33:36 Psychologically
33:39 – please, bear in mind
we are thinking together,
33:41 not what you think,
time is necessary or not.
33:46 We are investigating together,
33:51 therefore you are free
to look, to question, ask.
33:58 You cannot enquire, demand,
be sceptical if you just say,
34:05 ‘I’ll hold on to my knowledge,
I think time is necessary’,
34:09 and so on
– then we don’t meet together.
34:12 We are thinking together
34:14 about the whole question
of psychological evolution.
34:23 Because man
throughout the millennia,
34:28 has been accustomed,
is used, conditioned
34:33 to think that he will evolve.
34:40 ‘I am this today’.
34:42 ‘Give me time to change’.
34:47 ‘I am envious, frightened,
34:52 burdened with enormous sorrow
34:59 and I must have time
to get over it, to go beyond it’.
35:05 This is what we are used to.
35:11 So the speaker is saying
35:15 whether such psychological evolution
exists at all.
35:21 Or it is the invention of thought
35:29 because it says,
‘I cannot change today,
35:32 give me time, for god’s sake,
35:39 The everlasting becoming.
35:43 ‘I will be successful
as an executive,
35:46 as a first-class engineer,
or a first-class carpenter’.
35:53 All this needs skill
and you need time.
35:59 But we are asking:
36:02 is there psychological
evolution at all
36:07 – the ‘me’ becoming something?
36:11 You understand?
36:14 We are thinking together,
36:16 not about whether time
exists psychologically or not.
36:22 We are thinking together,
36:24 therefore there is no opposition.
36:29 Right?
36:35 So let us examine
36:40 the whole conditioning of becoming
36:47 – together, you understand? –
don’t come to any conclusion.
36:52 Or if you have conclusions,
let go and find out.
36:59 You see the problem?
37:02 If one’s conditioning
allows time,
37:10 then you are caught
in the whole movement of becoming.
37:19 That is, I am angry, one is angry,
allow time to dissolve that anger.
37:32 That is one’s conditioning,
that’s one’s habit.
37:36 And if you cling to that,
we cannot think together.
37:43 Therefore it is important
to find out
37:48 if you are clinging to something
37:51 and at the same time
trying to think together.
37:56 Right?
38:00 If I cling to my belief,
38:03 to my experience
according to that belief,
38:10 and you likewise,
38:13 we can never think together,
38:19 we can never
co-operate together,
38:22 there is no action
which is not divisive.
38:29 You are following?
38:32 So are we prepared
to investigate together
38:38 – investigate implies
looking, observing, thinking –
38:44 rationally, sanely,
patiently, deeply.
38:56 Is one free to enquire
into this question:
39:04 the me, the self-centred activity,
the constant movement,
39:12 whether you are asleep, awake,
walking, dreaming, talking,
39:16 it is this constant
central activity of me.
39:25 Has that a tomorrow,
a progressive ending of it?
39:30 Or a progressive continuity of it,
a refinement of it?
39:39 All that demands tomorrow.
39:51 Now, psychologically,
is there a tomorrow?
39:56 Please, this is
a very serious question.
40:10 The speaker put this question
to somebody some time ago,
40:15 and the person said,
40:17 ‘Oh, lord, I am going
to meet my husband tomorrow’.
40:24 You understand?
40:26 Oh, come on, there is
nothing difficult, don’t be puzzled.
40:30 All her hope, pleasure
– you follow? –
40:34 the whole memory of the husband,
40:39 and if there is no tomorrow,
what is my husband?
40:45 Right?
40:51 Please, together.
40:56 We are free together
to enquire into this question.
41:02 The speaker is not imposing
a thing on you.
41:11 But it is very important to find out
if there is a tomorrow.
41:23 If there is no tomorrow,
what takes place?
41:32 We know what takes place when we
have allowed multiple tomorrows:
41:39 postponement, laziness, indolence,
41:43 gradually achieving something,
41:47 enlightenment
41:51 – you understand? –
Nirvana, all the rest of it.
41:55 Through many lives, progress
– you follow?
41:59 I wonder if you follow all this,
42:01 the seriousness
of this investigation?
42:10 If there is no tomorrow
42:14 then what happens
to the quality of your mind?
42:27 The mind that is thinking together,
42:35 what is the quality of the mind
42:38 – the mind, not your mind,
my mind –
42:42 but the mind
42:45 that has seen the whole progressive
movement of the ‘me’ becoming,
43:11 that has seen what is involved
43:17 in this self-achieving,
43:36 and what is involved
43:39 when psychologically
there is no tomorrow, no future.
43:49 Do you understand, sir?
44:00 Psychologically then
there is a tremendous revolution.
44:06 Right?
44:09 Is this taking place with you,
44:11 that is what is important,
not the words,
44:14 not the speaker what is stating,
but actually,
44:21 actual means that which is
happening now, the actuality,
44:30 is the actuality
that in investigating together
44:42 the mind has discovered the truth
44:46 that there is no tomorrow,
44:49 Then what takes place
with the quality of one’s mind?
44:55 You understand what I am saying?
45:04 All religions, Christian, Catholic,
and all the rest of it,
45:09 have all said
tomorrow is important.
45:19 Tomorrow in the Christian world,
one life.
45:24 When you die, one life only.
45:27 The Asiatic world says
multiple lives.
45:37 Probably you neither believe
or accept either of those two
45:42 – I don’t know.
45:47 But when you begin to investigate
the whole psychological movement,
45:55 the ‘me’, the ‘X’ becoming,
becoming – you follow? –
46:01 what is involved?
46:04 Gradually you suffer and
go on gradually lessening suffering
46:11 till ultimately you are free,
46:13 either in this life
or in successive lives.
46:19 The Christians accept
this life, one life,
46:22 and the Asiatics accept many,
many lives – you follow?
46:28 That is psychologically one life
and psychologically multiple lives.
46:39 And together, you and I,
have looked at it
46:44 without any prejudice,
without any conclusion,
46:52 we are observing the fact,
how people are caught in this.
47:00 And also we are asking:
47:07 if there is no tomorrow
47:15 what has happened to your mind,
47:19 to your action, to your behaviour,
47:24 to your responsibility?
47:27 Do you understand my question?
47:29 Have you understood my question
– the question?
47:37 What is your conduct
if there is no tomorrow?
47:46 Conduct implying responsibility
with regard to another in action.
48:00 Do you understand, sir?
48:05 Then what is your relationship
to another?
48:15 Please,
together we are investigating,
48:17 don’t look at me and say,
‘Please, tell me’.
48:25 Because there is
no you and I in this thinking,
48:34 in this observation,
in this quality of listening.
48:48 What is your relationship
with another
48:58 when there is no tomorrow
49:07 Either you despair,
49:12 because this is a shock to one,
do you understand?
49:18 Either you despair
49:21 or you give up and say,
‘I don’t know’ – throw it out.
49:29 But if you are committed
to this thinking together
49:37 and enquiring
into the progressive business,
49:46 and ending of today psychologically,
49:54 then what takes place actually
49:57 – actually in the sense
that which is happening now
50:01 in your relationship with another?
50:15 Relationship being
not only physical contact,
50:20 sex, and all the rest of it,
50:22 but also the psychological
relationship of dependence,
50:28 attachment,
50:31 comfort, loneliness,
all the rest of it,
50:39 what takes place?
50:57 Would you tell me?
51:08 Or is this totally new to you?
51:14 You are listening
for the first time
51:22 and therefore there is
no immediate response.
51:32 Right?
51:33 And why not?
51:37 You are following all this?
I wonder if you are.
51:51 If there is no future,
51:55 no future,
52:01 the future to which you are
accustomed to, we know very well:
52:08 the picture, the image,
the pleasure,
52:13 desire for success,
spiritual and worldly,
52:19 the priest wanting to become bishop,
52:21 bishop wanting
to become the cardinal,
52:23 the cardinal becoming the pope
52:24 – the whole racket of it,
52:30 and in the world too,
52:36 then, if you see
52:40 that implies constant strife,
constant battle,
52:49 a ruthless sense of me aggressively
pushing, pushing, pushing.
52:59 And so in that aggressive
achievement there is security,
53:12 hoping to have security.
53:16 And in relationship also
– security in another,
53:22 with all its implications:
53:26 anxiety, jealousy,
displeasure, tears
53:33 – we know all that very well.
53:38 But if there is no
progressive tomorrows,
53:45 what is one’s relationship
to another, intimate or not?
53:53 Go on, sirs, find out.
54:34 You see,
54:39 if you have understood
the quality of thinking together,
54:49 thinking together,
not about something,
54:54 but thinking together,
you and I,
55:03 then where does
that thinking together
55:09 lead in my relationship to another?
55:14 You are following?
55:16 The other doesn’t know
anything about all this, suppose.
55:24 The other is attached,
and all the rest of it,
55:27 what is your relationship
to the other
55:30 if there is this quality of thinking
55:33 which is absolutely together,
this is not divisive?
55:53 Do you want me to tell you?
55:55 Questioner: No, sir.
K: Quite right, sir.
56:06 When you said, ‘No, sir’,
then we are together.
56:11 Q: Not quite, sir.
56:20 K: You see,
that is our difficulty.
56:26 You want to think
together with me,
56:31 and I can’t let go my ambition,
my vanity, my prejudice.
56:41 I can’t let go because you say,
‘Look, let’s think together,
56:47 so that we have this quality,
56:49 this spirit of actual
co-operation in thinking’.
56:56 And I can’t,
57:00 because I am attached
to my thinking,
57:05 to my memories, to my experience,
to my accumulated knowledge.
57:11 So it is I who have created
the division, not you.
57:17 You understand?
57:19 You understand this?
Are you doing that?
57:23 Because if you are thinking
having that spirit,
57:28 then if there is no tomorrow,
57:32 You are missing the whole thing,
come on, sir!
57:43 This is exactly what is going on
between you and the speaker.
57:56 The speaker says, ‘I have no
personal problems’, which is a fact.
58:02 ‘I have no belief’,
which is a fact.
58:05 ‘I have no experience’.
58:10 I have had a great many but I don’t
carry them, they have gone.
58:17 I am not entrenched in my particular
opinion, prejudice, evaluations.
58:28 Right?
Which is a fact.
58:30 I would be a hypocrite
if I said something else.
58:37 So I say let’s think together
58:42 and see the beauty
of thinking together.
58:47 And you say,
58:48 ‘How can I let go my knowledge,
my experience,
58:52 I can’t, I love them’.
58:55 ‘This is my life’.
59:00 So you create
a division in the world
59:09 – German, national –
you follow?
59:12 Both outwardly and inwardly.
59:16 And where there is division,
there must be conflict,
59:21 that is a law:
59:25 the Catholic, the Protestant,
the Communist, the Totalitarian.
59:37 So the speaker says,
59:40 ‘Please, my friend,
let’s think together’.
59:50 You understand, sir,
what has happened?
59:54 When we think together,
you have lost all your personality.
1:00:01 Ah, you don’t see it.
1:00:04 You follow?
1:00:05 You are no longer
Mr. Smith and Mr. K.
1:00:10 Oh, come on, sirs!
1:00:17 What time is it, sir?
1:00:41 This is the purpose
of these talks and dialogues
1:00:50 that we together
dissolve all our problems
1:01:07 because the self-centred problem
1:01:10 is greater than
the problems of the world
1:01:14 – political, energy,
various countries divided,
1:01:20 that is nothing compared to this.
1:01:23 Because once you have resolved this,
1:01:28 you are master of the world.
1:01:30 You understand?
1:01:35 Master.
Don’t go off into some...
1:01:48 I think that is enough
for this morning, isn’t it?
1:01:52 Basta?
1:01:54 Bene.