Krishnamurti Subtitles

Is there security at all psychologically?

Saanen - 12 July 1979

Public Talk 3



1:01 Krishnamurti: I didn’t nearly
make it this morning.
  
1:04 I’ve got a bad cold.
 
1:16 Shall we go on
with what we were talking about
  
1:19 the day before yesterday?
Shall we?
  
1:25 It seems to me
 
1:28 that we never seriously
think things through.
  
1:39 We go halfway and give it up.
 
1:47 And I think we are not sufficiently
serious enough
  
1:55 to go into this.
 
1:58 I would like to discuss
or talk over with you, if I may,
  
2:03 not only what we have
been talking about
  
2:08 – thinking together –
 
2:12 but the problem of security:
 
2:18 why human beings
throughout the world
  
2:25 seek psychological security.
 
2:29 One needs physical security.
 
2:33 We must have food,
clothes and shelter.
  
2:37 And apparently
throughout the millennia
  
2:41 man has not been able
to organise his society
  
2:48 so that everybody could have
enough food, clothes and shelter.
  
2:54 There have been many,
many revolutions
  
2:56 to bring this about – totalitarian,
this and the other,
  
3:01 but apparently they have
not been able to succeed.
  
3:06 And is it because
we seek physical security,
  
3:16 and that desire
for physical security
  
3:21 has psychologically taken
over the physical demands?
  
3:31 You understand my...?
 
3:33 One needs physical security
 
3:38 and that is the function
of a good society.
  
3:42 Which we will go into presently:
what is a good society.
  
3:50 And why have not human beings
been able to arrange
  
3:58 and they have capacity to organise,
 
4:00 enough energy to see that
 
4:03 all human beings have
enough food, clothes and shelter.
  
4:08 That is one problem.
 
4:10 And the other is:
 
4:16 each human being seeks psychological
security, inward security,
  
4:27 relying on belief,
 
4:34 holding on,
 
4:36 hoping thereby
in a belief to find security,
  
4:40 in an ideal, in a person,
 
4:46 in a concept, in an experience,
 
5:00 and does he ever find security
in any of this?
  
5:04 You understand my question?
 
5:07 And if he doesn’t,
why does he hold on to them?
  
5:14 You understand my question?
 
5:21 If one may, let us think over
together this question.
  
5:27 That is, if you are willing,
 
5:32 put aside your particular vanity,
 
5:39 your particular prejudice,
your own conclusions,
  
5:44 and let’s think over
this problem together.
  
5:48 Which means you are not accepting
what the speaker is saying,
  
5:53 nor are you accepting
your own conclusions,
  
5:56 because you have none,
you have put them aside.
  
5:59 So let us think this over
very carefully,
  
6:02 and this may be one of the factors,
 
6:09 that human beings
are so frightened.
  
6:24 Why does the mind
cling to a particular memory,
  
6:35 to a particular experience,
 
6:39 hold on to a belief
which has lost all meaning
  
6:45 – why?
 
6:49 Let’s talk it over together.
 
6:54 Either he is incapable
of seeing the facts
  
7:04 or he likes to live
in an illusion,
  
7:11 in a make-belief,
 
7:13 which has nothing
whatsoever to do with actuality:
  
7:21 the actuality being
what is taking place now.
  
7:31 Or he separates the experience,
the idea, the ideal, the belief
  
7:43 as being not accurate,
 
7:45 but holds on to them
 
7:47 because intellectually
he is incapable of investigating.
  
7:54 You follow?
 
7:56 Now if we may proceed
step by step.
  
8:00 Have you any belief
that you hold on to?
  
8:10 And if you hold on to a belief,
what is that belief?
  
8:15 How does it come into being?
 
8:18 Either through centuries
of propaganda,
  
8:24 as most religions have done,
 
8:27 that is their metier,
that is their investment.
  
8:33 For centuries
a belief has been created,
  
8:38 and one accepts it naturally,
from childhood,
  
8:45 and it is easier to follow
what has been the tradition
  
8:52 rather than to break away from it.
 
8:55 You are following all this?
 
8:59 If you have no particular beliefs,
then ideals.
  
9:09 The word ‘idea’,
I believe, comes from the Greek,
  
9:15 which means
to see, to observe.
  
9:21 You understand?
 
9:23 Not observe
and then from it a conclusion,
  
9:29 which becomes an idea.
 
9:32 The word ‘idea’
actually means to observe.
  
9:41 Now have we ideals,
 
9:49 which is the future?
 
9:55 The future
which is going to be achieved.
  
10:06 The ideal has been projected
from the experiences of the past,
  
10:15 from certain conclusions
which have been gathered,
  
10:19 and from that you project an ideal,
historical, worldly, or personal.
  
10:29 Right?
 
10:32 That is the past
projecting a concept as an ideal,
  
10:40 which is in the future,
 
10:43 and conforming to the future,
to that ideal.
  
10:48 It is the same movement
from the past
  
10:52 modified through
the present, and the future.
  
10:56 Right, that is clear, isn’t it?
 
10:59 Now, if you see that,
 
11:03 that when you have an ideal,
 
11:05 there must be a contradiction
in your daily life
  
11:11 because that ideal
is something non-real
  
11:16 – right? –
non-factual.
  
11:21 But the factual is
what is happening,
  
11:25 and hence a conflict,
an adjustment,
  
11:31 an imitation, a division.
 
11:36 So there is constantly
 
11:38 approximating one’s action
to something which is not factual.
  
11:44 I wonder if you see.
 
11:48 That is illusory,
this is actual.
  
11:56 Now after explaining that
very carefully
  
11:58 we can go much more into details.
 
12:02 Do you actually see this fact?
 
12:07 Or are you already
translating it into an idea?
  
12:16 You are following?
 
12:18 Please, observe yourself.
 
12:22 That is, if one has an ideal
 
12:28 and you see the nature of the ideal,
how the ideal comes into being.
  
12:36 Lenin, all the Marxists, Maoists,
have these ideals,
  
12:46 after studying history
 
12:48 and coming to their own
particular conclusion about history,
  
12:53 and then projecting the ideas,
 
12:55 and then making human beings
conform to that idea.
  
13:06 So have you, as a human being,
thinking this out very carefully,
  
13:12 do you see the falseness of it
 
13:15 and therefore letting it go?
 
13:26 Or you feel if you have an ideal,
you are doing something,
  
13:32 you are active,
 
13:35 you are accomplishing,
fulfilling your ideals.
  
13:40 And that gives one
a great satisfaction,
  
13:43 vanity, a sense of purpose.
 
13:49 You are following all this?
 
13:51 So after talking over together
– together –
  
13:58 does one put aside ideals?
 
14:09 If you do, then you say,
 
14:14 is it possible then to face actually
what is happening?
  
14:21 Not in contrast to the ideal
 
14:24 and measuring what is happening
according to the ideal,
  
14:29 but have the capacity to face
what is actually going on.
  
14:37 In that observation
of what is actually taking place,
  
14:42 there is no conflict,
you are watching.
  
14:47 I wonder if you see this.
 
14:50 Are we together in this or am I...?
 
14:57 Please, bear in mind
we are thinking this out together.
  
15:06 It is very important
 
15:14 that we not only learn
to listen properly,
  
15:19 but also have the capacity,
 
15:26 which comes naturally
if you are interested,
  
15:31 in being able to see that is false
and it is finished.
  
15:40 I will put aside my opinion,
I won’t let that interfere.
  
15:49 And can we together
put aside all our ideals?
  
16:05 Because we are thinking
this out together
  
16:09 because we are enquiring
into the question of security.
  
16:15 We think we are secure
when we pursue an ideal,
  
16:25 however false it is,
however unreal it is,
  
16:29 which has no validity,
 
16:31 it gives a certain sense of purpose.
 
16:36 And that sense of purpose gives
a certain quality of assurance,
  
16:43 satisfaction, security.
 
16:47 Right?
 
16:49 Can we go along?
 
16:52 Not go along verbally, but actually
you have put aside your ideals.
  
16:56 So now we are enquiring
into the question of security.
  
17:05 And why do humans, right throughout
the world, hold on to experience?
  
17:16 Please, ask yourself.
 
17:21 Not only sexual physical experiences
 
17:26 but also so-called
spiritual experiences,
  
17:30 which are much more dangerous.
 
17:37 You walk along
by yourself or with others,
  
17:41 you suddenly have
some kind of ecstasy,
  
17:45 some kind of delight,
 
17:48 and that experience –
you store it, hold on to it.
  
17:57 The thing is over
– right? –
  
18:02 there is the memory of it,
 
18:06 and one holds on to that memory,
which is called experience.
  
18:14 The actual word ‘experience’
means to go through.
  
18:22 To go through
and finish with it,
  
18:25 not carry on in your memory
that which has happened.
  
18:31 Now, specially in so-called
psychological experiences
  
18:40 or religious experiences,
 
18:44 which are very subtle
in their happenings,
  
18:52 the human mind takes delight
in something which is not ordinary.
  
19:02 Ordinary being that
which is happening every day.
  
19:13 And that which has
happened suddenly
  
19:20 or which has happened
 
19:23 after unconsciously working at it
and then happening
  
19:30 – I hope you are
following all this –
  
19:33 and holding on to it
 
19:37 – why?
 
19:40 Does that give one a certain sense
of having experiences, known?
  
19:52 That which is something
not ordinary,
  
19:55 and that gives one a delight,
a great pleasure,
  
19:59 and in that experience there is
a certain quality of security
  
20:08 because you have
experienced something
  
20:11 totally other than ‘what is’.
 
20:15 Right?
Are you following all this?
  
20:20 And does belief, ideal,
experience, remembrances,
  
20:26 do they give security?
 
20:30 Actual security,
as physical security.
  
20:39 You are following all this?
 
20:44 Or does the mind like to live
in a certain area of illusion?
  
20:59 Please, we are
thinking over together,
  
21:05 we are not doing propaganda or
trying to convince you of anything.
  
21:12 But we are trying together
to find out
  
21:16 why human beings
hold on to illusions,
  
21:24 which are obvious to another.
 
21:33 Now is it, as we said, it gives them
a great sense of superiority?
  
21:41 ‘Ah, I have had something
which you fellows haven’t had’.
  
21:45 That is the whole
gamut of the gurus
  
21:50 – you know this –
 
21:54 ‘I know, you don’t know’.
 
22:00 And why do human beings
live in this way?
  
22:08 Why do you or ‘X’ live this way?
 
22:14 Please, think it out.
 
22:16 Let’s think it over together
 
22:19 because your experience is personal,
 
22:25 enclosing, self-centred,
 
22:30 and the other is the same.
 
22:33 So there is always your experience
is different from mine or another,
  
22:38 and mine is better than yours,
 
22:41 so there is always
this division going on.
  
22:48 So are we,
in thinking this out together,
  
22:54 holding on to our experiences,
 
22:56 our beliefs, our ideals,
our conclusions,
  
23:00 knowing that they are
merely verbal structure,
  
23:07 knowing that they are merely a thing
that is gone, finished, in the past?
  
23:17 Why do we hold on?
 
23:21 Is it we want to live
with certain illusions
  
23:31 in which we take delight?
 
23:42 So does security
lie in illusions?
  
23:56 Apparently a vast majority
of people in the world
  
23:59 like to live in illusions,
 
24:02 whether it is scientific illusions
or the religious illusions,
  
24:07 or economic illusions,
or national illusions.
  
24:12 They seem to like it.
 
24:22 And perhaps we are serious,
not wanting mere entertainment,
  
24:28 we are deeply concerned
with the social structure,
  
24:35 which is destructive,
dangerous,
  
24:39 and we human beings say
we must bring about
  
24:43 a different quality of mind
and a different society.
  
24:53 So we are asking:
 
24:56 why do we find security
in illusions?
  
25:04 Please, find out.
 
25:09 And why is it that
we cannot possibly face facts?
  
25:19 Say, for instance, envy is
the common lot of all mankind.
  
25:30 Right?
 
25:32 Envy being comparison,
measurement
  
25:37 from what I am to what you are.
 
25:41 This is measurement.
 
25:50 Now in thinking over together
 
25:55 why is it not possible
to end that completely?
  
26:00 I am asking. I am not saying
it should or should not.
  
26:18 The fact is the reaction
which we call envy.
  
26:27 That is the fact.
 
26:29 But the non-fact is
I should not be envious.
  
26:34 Right?
Do we meet this?
  
26:41 The fact of this reaction
which we call envy
  
26:45 is what is happening,
 
26:47 but the mind has
projected the concept
  
26:51 that one should not be,
which is unreal.
  
26:57 So you are struggling to move
from the fact into non-fact.
  
27:05 I wonder if you see all this!
 
27:08 Right, sir?
 
27:10 Are we meeting each other?
 
27:13 Whereas to face the fact
without the non-fact.
  
27:24 Are we meeting?
I don’t know.
  
27:29 Are you all tired this morning?
 
27:35 So we have been so trained, educated
to accept non-facts
  
27:41 as being far more important
than the actual.
  
27:49 And in the non-fact we think
we shall have found security.
  
27:57 Right?
 
28:01 Now when you hear that,
 
28:06 is it an idea, a concept,
 
28:11 or you are really listening
 
28:14 and therefore you see the non-fact
and finish with it?
  
28:19 I wonder if you see this?
 
28:24 Right?
 
28:25 So we have to go into the question:
 
28:36 what does it mean to listen?
 
28:40 You have listened now
for nearly half an hour.
  
28:50 Have you listened actually
for half an hour
  
28:54 to what is being said,
 
28:57 which is what you are
saying to yourself,
  
28:59 not what another is saying.
 
29:02 Right?
 
29:04 Are you listening so completely,
 
29:09 you see the illusion actually
 
29:12 and see the absurdity of living
in an illusion and finish with it?
  
29:25 Which means
can we stay with the fact
  
29:31 and have no relationship
to non-fact?
  
29:41 Because our minds, as we said,
are conditioned to non-facts.
  
29:46 Just see what we have done.
 
29:54 The other day a man said to me:
 
30:00 ‘I can’t bury my son
in the campo santo
  
30:05 – which is cemetery –
 
30:10 because he is not baptised’.
 
30:14 You understand?
 
30:17 Do you understand
what I am saying?
  
30:21 Not baptised
 
30:23 – you know,
going through all that nonsense.
  
30:28 And he was horrified,
miserable, unhappy
  
30:32 that his son couldn’t
be buried there,
  
30:35 in the ‘holy ground’
as he called it.
  
30:38 You follow?
 
30:39 Just, no, please, sir,
this is very serious.
  
30:42 You may laugh at it,
you may set it aside
  
30:44 because you say it is nonsense,
 
30:46 but you have
your own nonsense.
  
30:54 So can we hear,
 
31:02 observe so closely, so attentively,
 
31:06 give all our attention to this
and therefore all illusion has gone?
  
31:18 And this illusion is
part of our conditioning.
  
31:24 If you are a Catholic,
look at the illusions you have,
  
31:33 or a Hindu, and so on, so on.
We don’t have to go into all that.
  
31:40 Now a mind that has sought security
in non-fact has dropped that,
  
31:49 has discovered
there is no security there
  
31:53 – please follow this –
 
31:54 what is the state of the mind
 
31:57 that is observing what is happening,
the actual?
  
32:04 You understand my question?
 
32:07 Have I made my question clear?
 
32:11 Do please!
 
32:16 All right.
 
32:18 Suppose I have no – not suppose –
it is finished, I have no illusions.
  
32:24 Which doesn’t mean I am cynical,
 
32:28 which doesn’t mean I am indifferent
 
32:30 or I have become bitter,
 
32:33 but illusions no longer
play a part in my life.
  
32:38 Then I ask myself:
 
32:40 what is the quality of the mind,
your mind, together,
  
32:47 what is the quality of our mind
 
32:50 which is facing that
which is happening?
  
32:58 You understand my question?
 
33:00 Do you understand my question, sir?
 
33:05 What is the state of your mind
 
33:08 that is freed
from all kinds of illusion?
  
33:18 National illusion,
scientific illusions,
  
33:25 of course, all the absurd
illusions of religions
  
33:35 and the illusion that you have been
carrying as your own experience.
  
33:44 Right?
 
33:45 What is the quality of a mind
that is free?
  
33:53 It is only such a mind
 
33:55 that can observe what is happening,
naturally.
  
34:00 You follow this?
 
34:04 Now the question then is:
 
34:07 the mind is seeking security
– right?
  
34:12 it wants security,
 
34:15 it has not found security
in any illusion – right?
  
34:24 but yet it says,
‘I must have security’.
  
34:28 I wonder
if you are following all this.
  
34:36 So it says, ‘I must find security
in my relationship’.
  
34:43 Obviously.
 
34:44 ‘I have let go the beliefs, ideals
– ah, I’m tired –
  
34:51 the experiences,
the remembrances,
  
34:53 all the nationalistic nonsense,
all that, they are all gone’.
  
35:00 But one’s mind is not free
from the idea of security.
  
35:10 And from that may be
the beginning of all fear.
  
35:19 So it says, ‘Is there security
in my relationship with another?’
  
35:30 Go on, you are the people
who are caught in this.
  
35:35 Is there security
 
35:40 in the image I have created about
my wife or my husband, my girl?
  
35:45 Obviously not.
 
35:48 Because that image is
the projection of past experience.
  
35:54 Right?
 
35:56 And the past experience
has brought about this image,
  
36:03 and according to that image I act,
which is the future.
  
36:09 Right?
 
36:11 Am I making this awfully difficult?
 
36:18 So the mind is now saying:
 
36:21 there is no security
in any form of image.
  
36:32 Right?
 
36:34 Not in relationship,
 
36:37 but in any form of having an image,
 
36:40 which thought has created
from the past experience.
  
36:53 Right?
 
36:58 So if you have not an image,
 
37:03 then what is relationship
 
37:07 in which the mind is
still seeking security.
  
37:11 Right?
 
37:15 Come on, sirs!
 
37:24 Is there a relationship
between two people
  
37:29 when they are not absolutely
thinking together?
  
37:40 In thinking together
there is complete security.
  
37:47 Right?
 
37:52 That is,
 
37:55 one has let go all his opinions,
 
37:58 judgements, experiences
and all that,
  
38:01 and the other has also,
 
38:03 so they can think together.
 
38:06 Right?
 
38:08 That is the actual relationship,
 
38:12 in which there is no division
as my personal thinking and yours.
  
38:25 Right?
 
38:27 So we are saying:
 
38:31 there is security psychologically,
total security
  
38:38 when the mind is freed
from all illusions
  
38:46 and doesn’t seek security
 
38:50 in any form of relationship
as attachment.
  
38:56 Right?
 
38:58 Because attachment is
one of the illusions,
  
39:06 in which we think
we will find security.
  
39:11 I am attached to you.
I am attached to this audience.
  
39:17 I come here,
the speaker comes here
  
39:21 and wants to talk, express himself,
fulfil himself,
  
39:31 and therefore finds
a certain security in that.
  
39:37 Which is, the speaker is
exploiting you for his own security.
  
39:51 And when the speaker is
honest and fairly decent,
  
39:54 he says what rot it is
 
39:57 and he moves away
from that kind of nonsense.
  
40:03 So in attachment
we want to find security.
  
40:11 And when you don’t find it
in a particular attachment,
  
40:15 you try to find it
in another attachment.
  
40:22 One is married to one for 20 years
and you are bored
  
40:26 and you suddenly run off
with somebody else,
  
40:32 which is what is happening
in the society,
  
40:38 and there you are hoping
to find some kind of security,
  
40:42 excitement, sex,
and all the rest of it.
  
40:45 See what we are doing, sirs.
 
40:49 Or you are attached
to your present lady or man
  
40:55 and are satisfied
 
40:58 – right? –
which is another security.
  
41:06 I wonder if you see all this.
 
41:09 I wonder if you see
 
41:10 how your mind is playing tricks
on yourself all the time.
  
41:18 This is called love.
 
41:27 So we are saying:
 
41:31 is there security at all
psychologically?
  
41:40 Think it out.
 
41:44 One has invested the desire
for psychological security
  
41:50 in belief, in ideal,
in experience, in remembrances,
  
41:57 in attachment, in God,
and so on, so on, so on.
  
42:04 And is there security?
 
42:08 Or it is all illusion?
 
42:14 I mean one can have tremendous
comfort in any kind of illusion:
  
42:20 that Jesus is going to save you
– marvellous!
  
42:24 Comfort, save you from what
god knows, but it doesn’t matter!
  
42:29 And so on and on and on.
 
42:31 The Hindus have it,
the Buddhists
  
42:33 – the same pattern is repeated
throughout the world.
  
42:38 Which means we never face the fact
but rather live in non-fact.
  
42:51 And when we do that,
our minds are torn apart.
  
43:00 Right?
 
43:02 We become very cruel,
 
43:08 we think conflict is inevitable,
it is part of life.
  
43:16 When you put aside all that,
 
43:21 now, how do you
put aside all that?
  
43:26 That is the point.
 
43:28 You understand?
 
43:29 You have listened to this
for three quarters of an hour,
  
43:41 and in what manner,
 
43:44 if you have discovered
your particular illusion,
  
43:49 in what manner
have you set it aside?
  
43:55 You understand?
 
43:59 Please, follow this.
 
44:09 Is it an act of determination?
 
44:18 Is it an act of choice:
 
44:21 seeing that this is illusion,
I prefer that?
  
44:25 Is it an outcome of somebody else’s
concept imposed upon you?
  
44:38 Is it your own
clarity of observation?
  
44:52 That is, you yourself see it.
 
44:58 Then the question arises:
How do you see it?
  
45:05 You are following all this?
You are not getting tired?
  
45:14 One sees one is caught
in an illusion, an ideal.
  
45:21 How do you see this phenomena?
 
45:26 Is it a reasoned-out
conclusion?
  
45:32 A clarity of verbal explanation?
 
45:38 Is it that you are being
skilfully persuaded?
  
45:46 Or you yourself see this fact.
 
45:55 Now we are asking:
how do you see it?
  
46:02 Do you see it merely
as visual perception,
  
46:08 the facts in the world,
 
46:10 and therefore
from visual perception,
  
46:14 reading books, newspapers,
magazines, discussing,
  
46:20 you have come to the realisation
that ideals are rubbish.
  
46:27 That is merely
an intellectual process
  
46:33 and therefore it is merely
 
46:35 you are living in a concept
and therefore non-fact,
  
46:44 however logically, sanely,
rationally you may observe it,
  
46:51 and then say, ‘I will drop it’.
 
46:57 But the dropping of it
is not actual
  
47:02 because you have other illusions
around the corner.
  
47:08 But whereas we are saying
– please, listen to this –
  
47:14 if you observe
 
47:21 without any remembrance
in your observation
  
47:29 – I must make this clear
otherwise you will think I am crazy.
  
47:46 We are talking over together
the question of seeing,
  
47:55 whether you have come
to the conclusion
  
47:58 that illusions are nonsensical
 
48:00 and therefore
you won’t be involved in them.
  
48:08 Or do you have an insight
 
48:14 to the whole movement of illusion?
 
48:20 You understand my question?
 
48:24 I can take... one can take
one kind of illusion – belief –
  
48:29 investigate it, go into it,
and say, ‘Well, it is finished’.
  
48:39 And investigate your ideals,
and so on, so on, so on.
  
48:44 That doesn’t really free you,
does it?
  
48:49 Investigate that,
but does it really free you
  
48:51 when you have rationally,
logically,
  
48:57 sanely investigated
into the various forms of illusions?
  
49:03 Which means,
how do you investigate?
  
49:07 You investigate through thought.
 
49:12 Right?
 
49:16 Thought has created these illusions,
 
49:19 and with thought
you are examining these illusions,
  
49:25 which again is a trick
you are playing.
  
49:31 So thought can again
create other illusions
  
49:34 and say,
‘I won’t have these illusions’.
  
49:39 But thought has not understood
 
49:42 the very nature of illusion
and the creator of illusions.
  
49:50 Now if you see thought itself
is the creator of illusions
  
49:55 – you are following all this? –
 
50:08 when the mind itself sees
 
50:11 that thought is
the creator of illusions,
  
50:17 then you have an insight
into the whole nature of illusions.
  
50:25 It is that insight that is going
to dissolve all illusions.
  
50:30 I wonder if you have got it.
 
50:34 Should we discuss
or go into the question of insight?
  
50:43 We have got seven minutes.
 
50:56 Sir, insight is not intuition.
 
51:05 Intuition may be
a refined form of desire.
  
51:16 Don’t accept what the speaker
is saying, investigate it.
  
51:26 Intuition or apprehension
may be the unconscious projection,
  
51:39 which is taken
as something extraordinarily real.
  
51:47 Right?
 
51:49 So we are saying
 
51:51 insight is not related
to any form of desire.
  
52:02 ‘I want to understand.
I must go into this’.
  
52:10 The motive behind is
desire wanting to comprehend.
  
52:16 Right? Desire is saying,
‘This, I must find this out’.
  
52:23 So if you want to go into it
very carefully,
  
52:27 insight is not
the activity of desire.
  
52:33 Insight is not the projection
of past experience.
  
52:44 Insight is not
a remembered action.
  
52:52 That is, I am going
to show you something.
  
52:55 That is, when you see
that all religious organisations
  
53:00 – instantly, not logically,
step by step,
  
53:04 which you can do afterwards –
 
53:06 if you see that all religious
organisations are based upon thought
  
53:12 and therefore have nothing
whatsoever to do with actual,
  
53:17 the sacredness of religion,
 
53:20 you have an insight into it.
 
53:23 You understand
what I am saying?
  
53:27 Now is your action
 
53:32 the action of insight
with regard to illusion?
  
53:36 You understand my question?
 
53:38 Or you are still analysing it?
 
53:42 You are still mentally active
in exploration?
  
53:51 Or you see instantly
the nature of illusion and finished.
  
53:59 You are following
the difference?
  
54:02 One is determination, choice,
 
54:08 a subtle form of conclusion
and action.
  
54:14 So action takes an interval,
there is a time interval.
  
54:22 We are saying: in insight, there is
immediate perception and action,
  
54:29 in which there is no regret,
no turning back – it is so.
  
54:39 Have you got this?
 
54:43 Sir, if you want to go into this,
 
54:47 one has to be very careful
not to deceive yourself,
  
54:53 because our minds are so quick
in their capacity to deceive.
  
55:02 I can say, ‘Yes,
I have got insight into this’.
  
55:09 And out of that insight you act,
 
55:13 and then you find
‘I wish I hadn’t done that’.
  
55:18 Regrets – you follow? –
all the sequence follows.
  
55:22 But insight is something
entirely different.
  
55:28 There is no time interval
between insight and action,
  
55:33 they are both together.
 
55:39 Now after explaining all this,
 
55:43 which is a verbal
form of communication,
  
55:51 have you listened so carefully
 
55:55 that you see instantly
the whole structure of illusion?
  
56:06 That is wisdom.
 
56:13 Right, sirs.
 
56:19 May we go?
 
56:42 Sir, when we sit together like this,
 
56:47 fairly quietly and silently,
 
56:54 listening,
 
56:57 is the silence contrived?
 
57:02 Or you are so concerned
 
57:07 not to solve your own
personal problems,
  
57:12 which will inevitably finish,
 
57:17 when you have understood
 
57:21 the act of listening,
the act of observation.
  
57:28 The act of listening, in that
there is no desire, just you listen.
  
57:39 But if you listen to Mozart and
say, ‘By Jove, what a lovely...
  
57:46 I had a lovely evening the other day
listening to that music,
  
57:50 and I want to play it again’,
 
57:52 you have lost something.
 
57:57 And if you listen so completely,
 
58:02 then the thing itself is
like a seed dropped into the earth,
  
58:09 it flourishes,
you don’t have to do a thing.
  
58:14 In the same way
if you observe closely,
  
58:19 in which there is only observation,
only observation
  
58:24 – not the observer saying
‘I will observe’,
  
58:30 then in that observation
and listening,
  
58:33 there is a strange quality
of attention which is insight.
  
58:40 Right, sirs.
 
58:43 Right.
 
58:45 Is that enough?