Krishnamurti_EN

Krishnamurti Subtitles

Breaking the pattern of conditioning

Saanen - 13 July 1980

Public Talk 4

0:38	Krishnamurti:
	May we continue

0:41	with what we were talking about
	in the last three talks?

0:52	Some of you may be
	have come for the first time

0:58	or haven’t been
	to the other talks,

1:01	so we should,
	if you don’t mind,

1:06	we’ll repeat a little bit
	what we have said before.

1:16	Apparently man has lived
	for over five or six million years,

1:31	and during all this
	evolutionary period,

1:36	man has not been able,
	both outwardly and inwardly,

1:44	to solve the great
	problem of conflict,

1:48	conflict not only
	within himself,

1:53	but conflict and wars,
	slaughter outside.

2:01	And that is the pattern
	through all these millennia

2:07	that the brain has
	followed this course,

2:13	this mould, this pattern.

2:17	And we are still
	continuing constantly

2:21	in the same stream
	of misery,

2:28	confusion and great sorrow,
	both inwardly and outwardly.

2:39	And if we are at all serious
	and are concerned

2:43	with what is happening
	in the world,

2:47	and also within ourselves,

2:53	one must wonder,
	or discuss, or find out,

3:00	why the brain, the mind,

3:06	because we are using ‘the mind’
	as sensation,

3:14	all the emotions,
	the reactions,

3:21	and the responses of thought.

3:28	All that is the brain,
	the mind and the heart,

3:32	the whole psychological
	structure of human beings,

3:39	both biologically
	as well as psychologically;

3:45	why we human beings,
	who are supposed to be educated,

3:53	evolved, sophisticated,
	cultured,

3:59	why we live in this world
	killing each other,

4:08	being divided by religions,

4:13	by nationalities,

4:17	by all the destructive
	division

4:24	that thought has created
	between human beings.

4:34	And is it possible

4:38	to bring about a change
	in the very structure of the brain.

4:46	That is what we have been talking
	about for the last three talks.

4:58	And also we said
	that this is not a talk

5:05	by the man who is sitting
	on a platform talking about ideas.

5:15	Any number of ideas
	have existed in the world,

5:19	any number of ideologies,

5:24	both the totalitarian,
	Marxist, Lenin, Mao,

5:30	and the other type,

5:33	ideologies of the Left,
	the Centre and the Right,

5:37	the extremes of all these.

5:43	And these ideologies have been
	very, very destructive,

5:49	whether the religious ideologies

5:52	or the political,
	economic ideologies.

6:02	And the brain, the mind,

6:05	the whole psychological
	structure of man,

6:08	has lived in this pattern,

6:12	has lived in this mould.

6:17	And, as we said,
	this is not a talk by the speaker.

6:24	We are together thinking
	over this problem, together.

6:32	You are not just listening
	and agreeing, or disagreeing,

6:39	going home having perhaps
	been a little interested,

6:45	intellectually entertained.

6:48	But I am afraid that is not
	the purpose of this gathering.

6:54	We are together
	taking the journey,

7:00	thinking together.

7:06	And one must, if you are kindly
	give some attention to all this,

7:14	because we are all
	human beings,

7:17	whether we live in Russia,
	East, West, South, North.

7:23	We all go
	through a great deal of torture,

7:27	misery, anxiety,
	the burden of fears, and sorrow.

7:34	This is the common lot of man,
	the common lot of humanity.

7:43	And the common lot is the human
	being sitting here in the tent,

7:54	whether we are from the East,
	West, North, South

7:59	– we are humanity.

8:02	Our brains and our minds

8:06	are not individual brains
	and individual minds,

8:13	it is the mind of humanity.

8:17	I know, perhaps,
	many of you will disagree,

8:22	but if you examine it impartially,

8:26	objectively, scientifically,

8:29	you will find
	that the brain is not yours,

8:38	nor mine,

8:40	it is the brain of human beings,

8:44	which has evolved
	to the present condition

8:48	in which we find ourselves.

8:54	And we have been asking,
	examining, observing

9:01	– not analysing,

9:06	why the human mind has lived
	with this despair, this depression.

9:19	Why human beings have not,
	during all these millennia,

9:26	changed radically.

9:30	That is the problem.

9:33	That is what we have been
	talking over together.

9:39	Talking over together,
	not listening to the speaker

9:45	and say, ‘Well, he is theoretical,
	nonsensical, oriental’,

9:50	and all the rest
	of that nonsense.

9:54	Thought is neither
	oriental nor occidental.

10:01	I think this is the basic fact.

10:05	You may in the West
	think along a particular line

10:11	– scientific, industrial,
	and so on,

10:16	and in the East
	it may be different,

10:19	but essentially
	it is thought, thinking,

10:26	which is common to all of us.

10:30	It is the lot of man to think.

10:34	And thinking is not yours or mine,
	it is common.

10:43	And this thought,

10:48	born of knowledge,
	experience, memory,

10:54	this thought has created
	the industrial world,

11:01	built extraordinary bridges,
	beautiful bridges,

11:07	great scientific
	inventions,

11:11	surgery, medicine;

11:14	and also thought has created wars.

11:21	Thought has created
	all the architecture,

11:27	beautiful and ugly,

11:30	all the great paintings,
	the statues, and music.

11:35	Thought has also created all those
	things that are in the cathedrals,

11:42	in the temples,
	in the mosques.

11:49	And thought has divided
	the religious world

11:56	into Christianity, Hinduism,
	Buddhism, and so on.

12:02	These are all facts.

12:06	It is not the speaker’s
	invention.

12:10	These are obvious,
	observable facts.

12:16	And we have lived that way,
	tribally,

12:22	which has become
	glorified nationality.

12:27	And is it possible
	for this brain,

12:32	which has been moulded
	in a particular pattern

12:35	and has existed
	in a particular way:

12:38	suffering, demanding, obeying,
	not obeying, conforming,

12:48	and revolting against conformity

12:51	– this has been the pattern.

12:58	And any serious person
	must enquire

13:07	whether it is possible
	to break down this pattern

13:13	and live totally
	differently:

13:17	without war, without antagonism,
	without anxiety, fear, sorrow.

13:30	And if you are willing,

13:36	and capable naturally,

13:41	to think together,

13:44	we can find out for ourselves

13:47	whether it is
	possible or not.

13:52	That is, more or less,

13:55	what we have been talking about
	during the last three talks.

14:04	Right?

14:13	As one observes
	one’s own mind,

14:19	not the speaker’s mind,

14:23	not the speaker’s words,

14:26	which are ordinary,
	non-technological words,

14:33	he is using non-technical words,
	not jargons, and so on,

14:39	just ordinary,
	everyday English.

14:49	And also,
	if one may point out,

14:52	we are not trying
	to do any propaganda,

14:57	we are not urging you
	to join any community,

15:01	or to follow any guru.

15:04	All that is silly,

15:08	grownup people
	don’t do this kind of thing.

15:12	Immature people do.

15:20	So our question is:

15:23	why the brain,

15:28	which has got such immense capacity,

15:37	why it has not solved
	its own problems,

15:43	why it lives in this way?

15:49	And as we said the other day,

15:51	and we will repeat it again,
	if we may:

15:56	thought is the core of this,

16:03	is the centre of all this travail.

16:11	Thought is born
	out of knowledge, experience,

16:23	which becomes memory
	held in the brain cells.

16:28	So thought is
	a material process.

16:37	This we have discussed
	with several scientists

16:41	who are brain specialists;

16:44	some of them agree,
	some them don’t – naturally!

16:49	That is their game.

16:51	Some agree, some don’t,
	about everything.

17:04	But thought has been the centre
	of all this human struggle,

17:19	this human urge
	to go beyond itself,

17:24	the urge to find God,
	if God exists,

17:28	to find out
	what is illumination,

17:33	if there is something
	beyond time,

17:37	if there is something
	beyond man’s thought,

17:41	which is eternal,
	and so on.

17:46	And so thought has been exercised
	right from the very beginning.

17:55	And thought has

18:02	made the image
	that man must grow, evolve,

18:09	become something.

18:13	I hope you are following
	all this.

18:20	Please, you are not
	following the speaker,

18:25	you are following yourself.

18:28	There is no teacher,
	nor disciple.

18:35	That is truth.

18:38	There is no follower and the leader
	in the world of mind,

18:47	and there is only learning,

18:54	not learning what someone
	has to inform you,

19:06	but learning in action.

19:16	We will go into that presently.

19:21	So we are together examining,

19:27	taking a journey into the very,
	very complex life of human beings,

19:34	very complex.

19:42	And to enter
	into this complexity,

19:45	the mind must be free
	from all attachments,

19:52	from any tie to anything

19:57	– to your guru, to your conclusion,

20:00	to your concepts, ideas,
	and so on,

20:08	because when you are
	tied to something,

20:11	when you are committed
	to a particular religion,

20:16	to a particular
	system of thought,

20:19	to a particular
	method of meditation,

20:25	to a particular method or belief,
	and so on, so on,

20:30	that very commitment
	brings corruption.

20:42	Therefore a mind
	that is committed,

20:49	taking sides, believing,

20:53	cannot possibly
	enter, discover,

20:59	whether this mind
	can itself transform.

21:09	Right?

21:11	I know it is very difficult
	to accept this,

21:15	because every human being
	wants to be committed to something,

21:20	he feels safe
	in that commitment.

21:28	One feels safe
	if you have a leader,

21:33	if you have a guru,
	if you have a particular system.

21:37	And if you are attached
	to any person,

22:02	If you are attached
	to any person,

22:06	obviously, you can see
	corruption beginning,

22:11	because in that attachment
	there is fear, hate, anxiety.

22:24	Similarly, if you are attached
	to an idea or to a belief,

22:29	to a concept, to a particular
	image or symbol of a religion,

22:37	then corruption
	is inevitable.

22:46	And one of the factors
	of this corruption

22:50	is authority.

22:57	Are we coming, meeting together?

23:01	Or are you sitting separate
	over there

23:04	and the speaker over here?

23:07	We are physically,

23:08	but is there any kind
	of communication between us?

23:17	Is there any kind of observation
	of the common factor together?

23:26	Do we both see,

23:29	not only intellectually, verbally,

23:34	but actually as a fact – the fact.

23:40	This microphone is a fact.

23:44	Can we see the fact
	in ourselves

23:49	that as long as you are committed,
	attached, tied to something

23:56	– to a person,
	to a belief, to a concept –

24:00	there must be corruption?

24:03	Whether you are a Marxist,

24:08	Leninist, Mao,
	or some latest guru,

24:19	or attached to any
	particular system,

24:24	there must be corruption.

24:31	Do we see that as a fact?

24:37	If I am committed to the idea
	that I am a Hindu,

24:47	see what takes place.

24:49	Or if you are committed
	as a Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist,

24:54	or belonging to some sect,

24:57	some theological
	or democratic concept,

25:05	you are tied,

25:06	and therefore you are
	not free to examine.

25:13	And there must be freedom.

25:21	And authority,

25:26	specially in the world of the mind,
	and the heart, and the brain,

25:33	that is, to follow somebody,

25:40	to accept some theological
	or theoretical concepts

25:49	given by Marx, and so on,

25:53	or by some Asiatic or Indian mind.

26:00	If you accept that and follow it,

26:09	mentally,

26:12	in your actions, and so on,

26:16	that is the very basis
	of authority and corruption.

26:23	Do we see this together?

26:29	Not just
	intellectually see it

26:33	because one has
	carefully explained it,

26:38	verbally it is very clear,

26:42	but to do it,

26:50	to see the consequences
	of this attachment,

26:59	how it has divided the world
	into such chaos.

27:10	And is it possible
	to be a light to oneself,

27:15	not the light of another?

27:23	Because our brain has
	been trained and evolved

27:29	and accepted authority.

27:33	Not only the outward
	authority of law,

27:40	which is necessary,

27:44	but the authority,
	the psychological authority,

27:49	the so-called
	spiritual authority.

27:56	We have become slaves
	to that authority.

28:08	So we are controlled,
	shaped, connived at

28:17	by those who say,
	‘We know, we have attained,

28:23	we will tell you what to do,
	follow us’.

28:29	‘We will lead you to heaven,
	save you from your sins’,

28:35	and all that business
	that goes on in the world.

28:48	And such a mind,

28:51	committed,

28:54	can never be free.

28:57	And without freedom you can never
	find out what truth is.

29:08	So could we,

29:13	in listening to this obvious fact,

29:19	because we cannot, we feel,
	stand by ourselves,

29:28	we always want
	to lean on somebody,

29:35	whether it is
	the husband or the wife,

29:40	whether it is
	your girlfriend or boyfriend,

29:42	or boyfriend
	and another boyfriend,

29:48	we think, by leaning,

29:58	seeking comfort from another,

30:04	our brains have depended
	on the authority of the spirit.

30:16	Please, do pay a little attention
	to this if you are serious.

30:25	And so our brains
	have been conditioned

30:30	to accept spiritual authority

30:34	– the priest, the guru,
	the man who says,

30:37	‘I am enlightened,
	so I will lead you to that’.

30:44	A man who is enlightened,

30:48	when he says he is enlightened,
	he is not,

30:55	because enlightenment is
	not a thing to be experienced,

31:04	it is a state of mind,

31:06	and has gone beyond all thought.

31:11	We will go into that
	when we talk later on

31:15	about meditation, and so on.

31:21	So can the mind, your brain,

31:23	which has been trained
	to accept authority,

31:28	and therefore
	its own particular discipline,

31:33	can that brain immediately
	free itself from that authority,

31:41	not the authority of law,

31:46	not the authority of the policeman.

31:52	You may disagree
	with the policeman,

31:55	but there is the common, supposed
	to be a common protector, and so on.

32:02	The law that you must keep
	to the right in these countries,

32:06	and in England keep to the left,

32:12	and so on.

32:14	Now, can you, in listening,

32:18	see the consequences
	of accepting authority outside:

32:31	the authority of God
	– you understand? –

32:38	the God who has been
	invented by thought,

32:45	and the authority
	of the worldwide priesthood

32:50	which says, ‘I will help you
	to attain, help you to reach’.

32:58	You are following all this?

33:04	Because when you accept
	such authority,

33:08	you must invariably
	bring about disorder,

33:19	not only disorder in yourself,

33:24	but also the disorder

33:27	that brings about
	different authorities:

33:34	the Islamic authorities,

33:39	the Buddhist authorities,
	and so on.

33:45	They are all at each other.

33:52	As one very famous guru told me,

33:55	‘I began with two disciples,
	now I have got 10,000 disciples’.

34:07	You understand, sirs, all this?

34:17	So when there is
	the acceptance

34:23	of psychological,
	so-called spiritual,

34:31	the authority of the spirit,
	the inwardness,

34:36	then there must be disorder,

34:40	because it brings
	conflict in yourself.

34:47	You may say,

34:48	‘I accept that authority
	because it pleases me,

34:54	it gives me help,
	it gives me a sense of protection’.

35:01	So you are depending
	on another,

35:07	and when you depend on another,

35:10	the consequence is fear,

35:15	division,

35:18	and all the conflicts that go on

35:24	between what you are
	and what you should be.

35:31	Right?

35:34	So the mind
	– including the brain –

35:38	so the mind has
	lived in this pattern

35:43	which is in the pattern of disorder.

35:49	Look at your own minds,
	I don’t have to...

35:53	Look at your own mind,

35:58	how disorderly it is.

36:08	Disorder means conflict,

36:16	conflict between
	what is going on,

36:21	the reactions, the responses,
	the reflexes,

36:27	and the authority,
	the sanctions,

36:32	the so-called
	illuminatory dictatorship,

36:41	and the fact of what you are
	– the conflict,

36:45	which is always the desire
	to become something.

36:53	Right?

36:57	So the brain has lived
	in this disorder,

37:04	going from one guru to another;

37:09	if you can’t find
	enlightenment here,

37:12	you go off to Japan or India,

37:15	and that is
	the latest racket.

37:23	Sir, truth is where you are,

37:27	not in India,

37:32	not in any other country,
	or any other people.

37:40	It is where you are,

37:47	and where you are
	with all your troubles, worries,

37:52	depressions,
	and the miseries.

37:56	You have to finish with them
	and go beyond.

38:05	Nobody on earth
	can give you that

38:10	– freedom from sorrow,
	freedom from anxiety.

38:16	It is only you that can do it.

38:19	So it is vain and useless
	to go off to various countries,

38:26	seeking various
	spiritual authorities

38:31	and living in their
	concentration camp,

38:35	which is called ashramas,

38:39	this is the game
	we have all played for millennia.

38:43	This is not something new.

38:48	For 2,000 years

38:51	the priests of the Western world
	played this game.

38:57	And in India they have been
	much longer at this.

39:03	So this is the cause
	of our conflict

39:10	because we are
	looking to another.

39:17	And can you, as you are listening,
	as we are thinking together,

39:23	taking the journey,
	walking over the same path,

39:28	not my path, your path
	– the path of observation,

39:38	can you see what your mind,
	your brain has become,

39:42	and end this sense
	of spiritual authority immediately,

39:52	so that you,
	who are humanity

40:01	– you are humanity,
	you are not an individual,

40:07	because you go through
	the same door of anxiety, misery,

40:14	uncertainty, fear, pleasure, sorrow,
	as everybody in the world does,

40:24	so you are humanity,
	you are the world,

40:29	and your brain is the world.

40:35	And if you see immediately
	the truth of this fact,

40:41	that conflict, in essence,

40:47	comes when you are
	accepting authority,

40:51	spiritual authority
	from another.

40:58	And this conflict arises
	not only from that,

41:02	but from being incapable
	of observing actually

41:07	what is going on
	within yourself,

41:11	without any distortion,
	without any judgement,

41:15	just to watch it.

41:21	Because we must live in order.

41:29	Order is absolutely essential.

41:34	There is no relative order.

41:37	There is only order
	or disorder.

41:44	You understand
	what we have been saying?

41:48	Either there is complete order,
	totally,

41:55	or there is only disorder.

41:59	It isn’t something
	in between the two.

42:04	What is in between the two
	is disorder.

42:13	So we must find out
	what is order.

42:22	First of all,

42:25	to find out
	what is absolute order.

42:30	There is such a thing
	as absolute order

42:34	because the cosmos...

42:58	The cosmos means order.

43:03	The universe is in order.

43:11	But we human beings
	live in disorder.

43:16	Nature is in order,

43:21	but when man interferes with nature,

43:24	he brings disorder

43:27	because in himself
	he is in disorder.

43:32	Right, sirs?

43:39	So what is order?

43:47	Is it the end of conflict?

43:52	Go slowly.

43:53	We will go into it very carefully,
	step by step.

43:57	Please, you are not following me,
	the speaker.

44:06	You are observing your own
	structure of yourself.

44:14	The word ‘structure’ there
	means movement.

44:19	Movement of yourself,

44:23	because you are
	a living entity.

44:29	You can see something dead,

44:32	but if you are a living thing,
	it is a movement.

44:38	And this movement of life
	is disorder.

44:46	We may have occasionally
	some kind of peace, quietness,

44:57	but the quietness,
	the peace and the silence

45:01	that is cultivated by thought
	through so-called meditation

45:07	or going off,
	doing all kinds of tricks,

45:11	is not silence, peace.

45:21	So we are now thinking together
	– I mean thinking together.

45:29	I am not telling you
	what order is,

45:35	which means you must live this way,
	that way, the other way.

45:43	Thinking together
	to find out for ourselves

45:49	whether there is
	an absolute order.

45:53	Or must man everlastingly
	live in disorder?

46:03	So disorder and order
	cannot go together.

46:11	A disordered mind
	cannot find order.

46:17	That is simple.

46:19	So we must find out
	what brings about disorder in us.

46:27	Right?

46:29	Not try to find out
	what is order.

46:34	It is like a blind, ignorant man
	trying to find out heaven.

46:44	I mean blind man in the sense,
	an ignorant man.

46:51	He must be free of ignorance,
	first.

47:00	So a disordered mind can never find
	what is absolute order.

47:08	Now, what causes disorder?

47:15	As we said the other day,

47:19	when there is a cause,
	there must be an end to it.

47:23	That is a law.

47:25	Right?
	I don’t know if you see that.

47:30	Where there is a beginning,
	there must be an ending.

47:38	If there is cause
	for a physical pain

47:43	– right? –

47:44	it can be ended,

47:48	either in death,
	or there is a cure for it.

47:55	If you have a bad toothache,

47:58	the cause is infection,

48:03	and that infection
	which is causing pain

48:06	can be ended.

48:10	Right?

48:12	So there must be
	a cause for disorder.

48:18	You are following all this?

48:23	Right?

48:24	Are we together
	at least a little bit,

48:26	for a little while?

48:30	Right?

48:34	Andiamo?
	Va bene.

48:41	We are saying there must be
	a cause for this disorder.

48:46	What is the cause?

48:48	Are there several causes
	for disorder in our life,

48:53	or there is only one factor
	that brings about disorder?

48:58	You are understanding
	my question?

49:02	not my question,
	your question.

49:11	First of all, are we aware
	that we live in disorder?

49:20	I think that is fairly clear.
	We are.

49:24	We may have
	patches of sunlight,

49:30	but most of the day we live,
	as we are doing now,

49:34	with rain and clouds.

49:39	So we are not talking
	about patches of order,

49:44	which are really
	the forgetfulness of disorder.

49:55	So what is the cause of it?

49:59	Or are there several causes?

50:11	There must be disorder
	when there is contradiction,

50:22	not only in your action,

50:28	which is not only in your thought
	– in your behaviour.

50:32	Contradiction –
	saying one thing and doing another.

50:39	Obviously.

50:42	And there must be disorder
	as long as we are conforming.

50:52	Right?

50:53	Conforming to an idea,
	to an ideal,

50:59	to an image
	which has been created by another.

51:08	All right?

51:11	Which is:

51:12	as long as there is contradiction

51:18	in ourselves,
	between action and the fact,

51:25	between what we think
	and what we do.

51:32	Right?

51:34	That is:

51:38	as long as man, mind

51:41	is trying to change
	‘what is’ into ‘what should be’,

51:51	there must be disorder.

51:57	The totalitarian Communist world
	have their theoreticians,

52:05	according to Marx and Engles
	and Lenin and Stalin – all that,

52:09	and have created a concept,

52:17	an ideological world,

52:21	and the people there,
	in their authority, in their power,

52:26	are shaping man to conform to that.

52:32	You are following?

52:34	This is what
	all religions have done.

52:39	There is not much difference
	perhaps,

52:41	there is a certain difference

52:43	between the totalitarian world

52:47	and the religious world
	and the fascists.

52:54	They are all following
	the same path,

52:58	perhaps mildly,
	gently, forcefully,

53:03	aggressively, threatening,

53:06	but it is the same direction.

53:14	So is that the root
	of this cause of disorder?

53:23	Please, go slowly,
	don’t immediately say, ‘That is’.

53:27	Think it out.

53:32	Or there must be disorder

53:36	as long as thought
	dominates our actions.

53:49	Because as we said,

53:51	thought is the response of memory.

54:02	That memory is the result
	of experience, knowledge

54:08	stored up in the brain,
	in the cells.

54:12	So thought is always limited

54:17	because knowledge
	is always limited.

54:20	There can be no complete knowledge.
	Right?

54:24	Are you following all this?

54:35	See what man has done.

54:39	He knows probably
	deeply unconsciously

54:43	that there can be no complete
	knowledge about anything,

54:48	so he says, ‘God’
	– whatever that is –

54:52	‘is omnipotent, omniscient’,
	and so on, so on, so on.

54:57	So look what he has done:

55:02	knowing his limitation,

55:08	his knowledge must
	always be limited,

55:11	he creates something which is
	total knowledge – omniscient –

55:19	and struggles to reach that.

55:22	You follow the game?

55:23	You see
	what man is doing all the time.

55:29	So we are saying, asking:

55:32	is thought responsible
	for disorder?

55:38	Please, this requires
	a great deal of thinking,

55:40	don’t just say, yes or no.

55:47	Thought has created
	the opposite,

55:52	not the fact,
	but the opposite.

55:58	That is:
	I am unhappy,

56:06	but I have known happiness
	at some period,

56:11	and the remembrance of that

56:15	is a contradiction to ‘what is’
	– you are following this?

56:20	Yes?

56:23	I wonder.

56:25	So thought has created the opposite,
	which is non-fact.

56:33	What is fact is what is going on,
	what is happening.

56:41	The fact is
	human beings are violent.

56:45	That is a fact.

56:47	But thought has said:
	I must achieve non-violence,

56:54	which is the opposite of ‘what is’
	– right? –

56:59	so there is conflict.

57:06	But if there is no opposite,

57:11	there is only this,

57:14	then you can deal with this.

57:16	You are following?

57:17	You can always
	deal with facts,

57:21	but not with non-facts.

57:24	I wonder if you see this.

57:27	Am I making this too complex?

57:30	Too abstract?

57:32	No, it is too practical,
	I am afraid!

57:43	So is that the basic cause
	of our disorder?

57:51	You follow?

57:53	The cause is to become something,

57:57	always trying to become.

57:59	I am ignorant
	– I must know more.

58:03	I don’t know enlightenment
	– I must achieve enlightenment.

58:08	My mind is in conflict,
	chattering

58:11	– I must make it quiet.

58:15	It is the same principle

58:18	as the clerk becoming the executive,

58:24	the parish priest
	becoming the bishop,

58:28	and the bishop
	becoming the cardinal,

58:30	and the cardinal
	becoming the pope.

58:33	You understand?
	The same principle.

58:38	Is that the cause
	of our disorder?

58:47	You see, we live in disorder,

58:51	and then thought says,
	‘I must live in order’.

58:58	So it creates
	a pattern of order,

59:03	a pattern of values
	which are order,

59:09	a pattern of behaviour
	– you understand?

59:15	Being in disorder,

59:18	thought then creates
	what it thinks is order,

59:23	and the conflict begins.

59:30	So is that the cause
	of our daily existence in disorder?

59:41	If that is the cause,
	it can be ended.

59:46	Now just a minute.

59:46	Follow it carefully,
	it can be ended.

59:54	Your next question is: how?

59:58	You are back again
	into the old principle

1:00:01	of ‘tell me what to do’.

1:00:07	You are following all this?

1:00:10	Oh, for God’s sake, come on, sir!

1:00:13	Right?

1:00:16	One sees this fact

1:00:20	that thought
	creates the opposite,

1:00:29	and the opposite then
	becomes important

1:00:34	in order to relieve the fact,
	to go beyond the fact.

1:00:40	That is, I am violent
	– suppose, one is violent.

1:00:43	It creates its opposite,

1:00:46	because it thinks,
	by creating the opposite,

1:00:50	through conflict,
	it can be free of violence.

1:00:56	But conflict itself is violence.

1:00:59	I wonder
	if you understand all this!

1:01:04	Right?

1:01:05	Can we go on?

1:01:12	So, can the mind, which has lived
	in the pattern of opposites,

1:01:19	which is the pattern
	of non-facts,

1:01:24	that is, when there is violence,
	that is a fact,

1:01:28	the non-violence
	is non-fact,

1:01:33	the ideal is non-fact.

1:01:39	So can the mind live, look,
	observe only the fact,

1:01:47	without moving away
	from the fact?

1:01:51	I wonder
	if you have understood this.

1:01:53	That is, to move away
	means to suppress,

1:01:57	to try to go beyond,
	to evade it, to analyse it,

1:02:02	is moving away from this,
	from the fact of violence.

1:02:10	Right?

1:02:11	Are you doing it
	as we are talking?

1:02:13	Or you are just being
	carried away by the words?

1:02:23	So the brain has lived
	in this pattern of fact and non-fact

1:02:29	– right? –
	and so created the conflict.

1:02:34	When one sees the futility,
	the absurdity of this,

1:02:43	then you are only left with fact.

1:02:49	Right?

1:02:51	Then how do you
	observe the fact?

1:02:59	You are not getting tired?
	Can we go on?

1:03:04	How do you observe the fact?

1:03:08	That is, the fact is violence.

1:03:15	We said violence is
	a state of contradiction,

1:03:19	a state of following somebody,

1:03:24	spiritually, philosophically,
	ideationally, psychologically,

1:03:31	following somebody,

1:03:34	and there is a division
	between you and that,

1:03:39	the guru and you,

1:03:41	and the clever guru says,
	‘We are all one’.

1:03:45	You follow?
	That is the game they play!

1:03:51	So we are saying:

1:03:53	can you observe the fact

1:03:57	without any movement
	away from it?

1:04:07	Right?
	Can we go on?

1:04:10	So we are saying:
	how do you observe the fact?

1:04:15	Are you giving a direction
	to the fact?

1:04:21	You understand what I mean?

1:04:23	Are you looking at the fact
	with a motive,

1:04:26	which is to direct it
	– right?

1:04:32	Please, all this requires
	tremendous attention.

1:04:53	We are saying:
	how do you look at the fact?

1:05:01	There is only fact.

1:05:03	Right?
	Not its opposite.

1:05:07	So the fact is all important,
	not how you translate the fact.

1:05:19	Right?

1:05:20	Because then the translator
	of the fact,

1:05:27	he is translating according
	to his previous knowledge – right?

1:05:36	and therefore
	when he translates the fact,

1:05:40	he is moving
	away from the fact.

1:05:44	Right?
	Are you all asleep?

1:05:51	So, is there an observation
	without the translator,

1:06:01	without the interpreter,
	without the observer?

1:06:09	If there is a division
	between the translator of the fact,

1:06:16	obviously, he creates conflict.

1:06:20	You are following this?

1:06:23	So, to end conflict,
	the translator is absent.

1:06:33	Then there is only
	pure observation.

1:06:39	When there is pure observation,
	the fact is not.

1:06:44	I wonder if you see that.

1:06:47	Vous avez compris?

1:06:50	You understand?

1:06:51	As long as the translator
	is doing something,

1:06:55	he is creating the fact.

1:07:05	But if the translator,
	the interpreter,

1:07:08	the thinker, the observer,
	is not,

1:07:11	the fact is non-existent.

1:07:15	I’ll show you why.

1:07:17	Are you interested in all this?

1:07:21	No, no
	– do it!

1:07:25	Otherwise it has no value,

1:07:29	then it becomes
	an intellectual game.

1:07:35	What is the fact?

1:07:38	The fact is violence.

1:07:41	I am taking that as an example.

1:07:44	The fact is violence.
	What is violence?

1:07:51	Imitation.
	Right?

1:07:55	Conformity, comparison, anger, hate
	– right? –

1:08:02	jealousy, fear, sorrow.
	Those are all facts.

1:08:07	Depression, elation,

1:08:15	sorrow – all that,
	is a fact.

1:08:19	When you say it is a fact,
	what does that mean?

1:08:24	Is it a fact because you have
	remembered that thing

1:08:29	which is happening now, in the past
	– you follow what I am?..

1:08:34	You are following this?
	No, you are not.

1:08:46	I am greedy now.

1:08:52	The word ‘greed’, the word,
	is not the fact

1:08:59	– right?

1:09:02	Right?

1:09:05	But by using the word ‘greed’
	I have identified it

1:09:09	because I have used
	that word previously.

1:09:15	Right?

1:09:17	The previous recognition
	of the fact,

1:09:20	of what is happening,

1:09:22	is what we call fact.

1:09:28	Are you also working with me?

1:09:35	So by naming it,
	you have recognised it.

1:09:42	Right?

1:09:43	And so you have
	placed it in the past.

1:09:52	See what we have done.

1:09:59	Take a very simple example:
	one is angry.

1:10:05	At the moment of anger
	there is no recognition as anger.

1:10:13	There is only the reflex to it,
	to a hurt, to whatever it is.

1:10:19	A reaction.

1:10:22	At the moment of reaction there is
	no sense of ‘By Jove, I am angry’.

1:10:27	It only takes place
	a second or two later.

1:10:33	Why?

1:10:36	Because the mind, thought,
	has recognised the fact

1:10:44	according to the past remembrance.
	Right?

1:10:53	So it is dealing with ‘what is’
	in terms of the past – right? –

1:10:59	which then creates conflict.

1:11:03	Are you following this?

1:11:06	So is there an observation
	without the word,

1:11:15	without remembering
	this is violence?

1:11:20	You understand?
	Vous avez compris?

1:11:24	The moment the process
	of recognition, thought, begins,

1:11:28	it becomes non-fact.

1:11:33	Right?

1:11:35	Is this too difficult?

1:11:39	It is fairly simple isn’t it?

1:11:43	I am angry

1:11:46	– I have never been,
	but I am angry –

1:11:50	and at the moment of anger

1:11:53	there is only this
	adrenaline active.

1:11:58	Then a few seconds later
	thought says, ‘I have been angry’,

1:12:06	which is the recognition

1:12:09	of that which has happened
	in terms of the past.

1:12:15	Right?

1:12:18	Now, therefore the past
	and the present are in conflict.

1:12:25	So can you...

1:12:36	So can you observe
	without the word,

1:12:46	can you observe
	without the translator,

1:12:53	the thinker who says,

1:12:55	‘I remember that,
	it has happened again’?

1:13:03	That which is happening
	has never happened again.

1:13:09	I wonder if you see that.

1:13:13	It is only the remembrance
	of that,

1:13:16	from that you say
	it has happened again.

1:13:19	This is too much for you!

1:13:26	So the pattern, which the mind, the
	brain, and so the thought, has set,

1:13:34	has lived in this conflict
	from time immemorial.

1:13:41	And we are saying,
	the cause of it is this.

1:13:46	And where there is a cause,
	it can be ended.

1:13:51	The cause is

1:13:54	the division between
	the actual happening

1:13:58	and what it should not happen,
	the ideal.

1:14:06	So the ideal is non-fact,
	always.

1:14:13	Only what is actually happening.

1:14:18	The actual happening
	is my anxiety,

1:14:24	my fear,
	my desperate loneliness.

1:14:35	And when there is observation
	of that loneliness,

1:14:40	the word says, I know
	what it means to have been lonely

1:14:44	because I have known it in the past.

1:14:48	So the past is in conflict
	with the present.

1:14:52	You understand this?

1:14:54	So is there an observation
	without the past?

1:15:00	Of course, there can be.

1:15:03	Then the fact is not.

1:15:10	It is the translator,
	the thinker,

1:15:17	the interpreter, the observer,
	who is creating the fact.

1:15:22	I wonder if you see this.

1:15:26	You understand?

1:15:27	The fact is I am angry.

1:15:31	The moment I smother it
	with a lot of words and ideas,

1:15:37	I give it importance,
	I strengthen it.

1:15:41	The moment I cease
	to give the past history to it

1:15:47	it withers away
	– you understand?

1:15:50	Go to it, try it.
	Do it, sir!

1:16:00	So we are saying:

1:16:03	the cause of disorder
	is this conflict

1:16:10	between what is taking place,
	going on,

1:16:13	and what should be.

1:16:22	If there were no opposite,
	non-violence – you follow? –

1:16:27	I then have to deal with it,
	the thing as is.

1:16:31	I wonder if you are moving.
	You understand this?

1:16:36	So we are saying:

1:16:39	man has lived in disorder,

1:16:44	and he has looked
	for somebody else,

1:16:48	an outside agency,

1:16:50	to clear up this disorder,

1:16:53	both politically, economically,

1:16:57	and religiously,
	so-called spiritually.

1:17:02	The moment he does that
	he has created the division.

1:17:08	Right?

1:17:10	Where there is division
	there must be conflict:

1:17:16	the Jew and the Arab,
	the Muslim and the Hindu,

1:17:20	the Christian and
	the not-Christian.

1:17:28	So there is only fact
	and not non-fact.

1:17:35	Quelle heure est il?

1:17:50	We have got three more talks:

1:17:56	Tuesday, Thursday,
	and next Sunday.

1:18:01	And we have to deal
	with a great many more things still.

1:18:06	We have to go together,
	think together,

1:18:10	to find out
	if man can ever be free of fear,

1:18:17	completely free of fear,

1:18:23	both the fear of the world,

1:18:26	and fear of what is happening
	– fear, inside.

1:18:32	And also one has to go
	into the question

1:18:36	of this very complex
	problem of pleasure.

1:18:47	And the still more complex
	problem of death

1:18:52	and the ending of sorrow.

1:18:55	And also we have to go into,
	talk over together,

1:19:03	the meaning of meditation.

1:19:10	So we have three more talks,

1:19:12	and we will go into all this
	in as much detail as possible.

1:19:21	Finished, sirs.