Krishnamurti Subtitles

Seeing self-interest as the root of fear

Saanen - 14 July 1985

Public Talk 3

0:52 May we continue
with our conversation?
1:08 We were talking about conflict
1:15 and the causation of conflict.
1:23 Conflict is growing more
and more in the world,
1:29 in every form, in every
social section and so on.
1:41 We said the cause of conflict
is this constant opposition,
1:53 not only within ourselves
1:57 but also within the society
in which we live.
2:04 Society is what
we have made of it.
2:10 I think that is
fairly clear and obvious,
2:17 because in ourselves we are,
2:21 from the moment
we are born until we die,
2:25 we are in constant struggle,
competition, conflict,
2:32 every form of destructive or positive
attitudes, prejudices and opinions.
2:43 This has been
the way of our life.
2:48 Not only at the present period
but also for the last
2:55 probably
two and half million years.
3:00 And we are still going on
with this
3:02 in the same pattern,
the same mould
3:06 – wars,
more destructive than ever,
3:16 division among nationalities,
which is tribalism,
3:24 religious divisions,
family divisions,
3:31 sectarian fragmentation
and so on.
3:44 If we may point out
this morning again,
3:49 that we are not here
as an intellectual group,
3:57 or a rather romantic, imaginative,
sentimental assembly.
4:07 We are together,
you and the speaker,
4:14 are going to take a journey,
4:19 not he is leading you,
or you are following him,
4:25 but together, side by side,
4:28 perhaps holding hands
if necessary,
4:34 we are taking a journey,
rather complex,
4:41 twisting, subtle
and perhaps endless,
4:49 a journey that has
no beginning and no end.
4:55 In the terms 'the beginning
and the end', as we understand it,
5:01 something starts, goes on
and then comes to an end
5:08 – perhaps it may not be
at all like that,
5:12 It may be a constant movement,
5:16 not within the cycle of time
5:21 but rather outside the field
of momentum as we know it.
5:28 We can go into all that
5:33 So we are together.
5:36 Please, the speaker must insist
on this point.
5:43 You are not merely listeners
5:47 and you accept or reject
what he says
5:52 but rather in cooperation,
5:58 in responsibility,
together, in step,
6:05 not one behind the other,
6:08 walking along the same path,
6:11 same 'sentier' or same lane.
6:23 So it is your responsibility
as well as that of the speaker
6:29 not to accept or to deny,
or to agree or disagree.
6:38 We have been brought up,
6:41 educated in this system
of agreeing and disagreeing.
6:49 We agree with some things,
6:52 we disagree entirely
with other things.
6:57 So there is always
this division:
6:59 those who agree,
do something together,
7:06 and those who are opposed
to what they are doing.
7:11 Could we this morning banish
from our brains altogether,
7:19 entirely, out of our blood,
out of our brains,
7:24 the idea of agreeing
or disagreeing?
7:32 Because if you agree
with the speaker,
7:37 and there are some
who don’t agree,
7:40 then there is a conflict
between the two inevitably.
7:44 One may tolerate it,
one may put up with it, accept it,
7:50 but there is always this division
– clear?
7:55 Could we, seeing the consequences
of agreeing and disagreeing,
8:04 approving and disapproving,
8:10 together observe,
8:17 together see exactly,
not only as far as we can,
8:25 what is happening externally
8:29 – that is fairly simple
because we are not told very much
8:36 what is actually going on,
in the political world,
8:42 in the world of armaments,
in the scientific world
8:48 and all the technological world –
8:52 but inwardly, subjectively,
8:59 to see exactly what is going on,
9:03 not saying,
'Well, this is bad, this is good.
9:06 I accept this,
I don’t accept that',
9:09 but just to observe.
9:15 Not, in that observation,
any prejudice – right?
9:26 Can we do this?
9:29 Can we observe ourselves,
our conduct, our behaviour,
9:35 the way we think,
our reactions,
9:41 our faiths, beliefs,
conclusions and so on?
9:49 Could we observe all that
as it is,
9:57 not as it should be,
9:59 or as it must be
– just to look at it?
10:05 Could we do that?
10:09 That requires
a great deal of attention.
10:14 The brain must be
extraordinarily active to reject
10:18 any kind of reaction
in watching oneself.
10:25 Because, after all,
what other people have said about us,
10:33 the professors, the psychologists,
the psychiatrists
10:37 and the gurus
and all those people,
10:41 it is what they say,
it is not what you see of yourself.
10:48 I hope we are
following each other.
10:54 We are speaking English
10:59 and the words the speaker...
11:11 using are very simple,
11:14 simple words which we use daily
in our conversation with each other.
11:21 There is no jargon, no specialized
linguistic, semantic jargon.
11:31 We are talking over together,
as two friends,
11:35 using ordinary, daily language.
11:41 So we are asking:
can we see exactly what we are
11:48 without taking sides about it?
11:53 Because we are going to go
into all that this morning.
11:58 Not only agreeing
and disagreeing,
12:04 seeing the consequences
of each attitude,
12:09 put away that completely
12:13 – assessing, disagreeing,
evaluating, judging –
12:19 but just to observe
as you observe the sky
12:24 of an evening full of stars,
12:28 and those mountains,
majestic against the blue sky.
12:35 You just observe.
12:39 Can we do the same thing
12:45 because there is the criteria,
12:47 and from there observe ourselves
12:51 and our relationship to the world,
and the world relationship to us?
12:56 It is a rather complex process
– right?
13:01 Are we together?
13:03 Or am I marching ahead,
and leaving you behind?
13:11 Could we go together?
Keeping in step,
13:18 if we don’t understand
each other
13:22 we say, 'I don’t understand
what you are talking about.'
13:28 Right?
Could we start with that?
13:35 What are we?
13:39 Why have we
such deep-rooted self-interest?
13:51 Not only self-interest
outwardly, there,
13:57 there is a certain
necessity of self-interest
14:01 otherwise one has to give up.
14:04 But inwardly, psychologically,
14:09 why is there such deep,
impenetrable self-interest,
14:17 in all of us?
14:21 That self-interest – you know
what that word means?
14:25 To be interested in oneself,
one’s own profits,
14:29 one’s own failures,
one’s own fragmentation,
14:34 one’s own prejudices, opinions,
14:38 the whole existence
of one’s life
14:43 – self-interest, right?
14:47 Why is it we are
so committed to that?
14:54 Is it possible
to live in this world
14:58 without that self-interest?
15:01 First psychologically.
15:05 Then we can see
if it is possible externally.
15:11 Right?
Are we together
15:17 or am I talking over beyond
that tent, over the fence?
15:24 Have you ever noticed that we
build a fence round ourselves?
15:36 A fence of self-protection,
15:42 a fence to ward off any hurts,
15:47 a barrier between you
and the other,
15:53 between you and your family,
15:57 between you and so on.
15:59 There is a barrier between you
and the speaker – right?
16:05 Naturally.
16:07 You don’t know the speaker,
the speaker doesn’t know you,
16:12 therefore you are rather
politely listening,
16:19 curious what the devil
he is talking about
16:27 and hoping that you will get
something out of it
16:33 after sitting an hour or so
in this hot tent, marquee,
16:39 and expecting something
– right? Naturally.
16:44 Curious, choosing what suits you,
what doesn’t suit you,
16:53 listening partially,
not entirely
17:00 because one doesn’t want
to expose oneself to oneself,
17:06 so naturally one creates
17:10 either a very thin barrier,
hardly any,
17:13 or a definite wall.
17:20 Why do we do that?
Is that not also self-interest?
17:29 And this self-interest must inevitably
bring about fragmentation
17:38 – to break up.
17:43 Nationally,
you can see the barrier,
17:48 on one side England
and the other side all Europe
17:55 and beyond it.
17:57 There is this constant division.
18:02 And where there is division there
must be conflict, that's inevitable.
18:08 Whether you have very deep
intimate relationship
18:12 with your wife or husband,
girl or boy, and so on,
18:18 where there is division
there must be fragmentation,
18:24 there must be conflict.
That is a law – right?
18:29 Whether you like it or not,
that is the law.
18:35 But when one sees that,
18:41 then you break down
18:45 – the very seeing is the way
of breaking down the barrier.
18:51 So we must enquire:
18:54 what does it mean to see,
19:00 what does it mean to observe?
19:05 I am observing myself,
19:10 I am watching what I am,
my reactions, my prejudices,
19:15 my convictions,
my idiosyncrasies,
19:19 the traditions in which
I have been brought up,
19:22 the reputation, all that rubbish
– I am watching.
19:29 If I do not watch
very carefully,
19:34 listen to every sound
that is going on in watching,
19:41 then I set a direction
in which I must go.
19:46 You are following all this?
19:51 Am I talking to myself?
20:05 We were talking
in Washington, America,
20:09 and what I said they clapped,
20:13 approving, encouraging.
20:18 Here, you sit all very quietly.
20:25 One really doesn’t know
if you are actually walking together
20:30 or actually listening,
20:33 or casually come in –
a Sunday morning sermon,
20:39 instead of going to church
you turn up here,
20:44 either for amusement,
20:48 or just hear
what that chap is saying,
20:54 or 'Well, I agree with him
but he is not quite right
20:57 about other things.'
21:01 We never look
at the whole thing,
21:05 the whole problem of life,
21:11 the whole existence
from childhood to death.
21:16 We never take the whole thing in
and observe, learn
21:26 – not accumulate knowledge,
that is fairly simple,
21:31 but to learn
what is happening in ourselves,
21:39 the demands that we make
upon each other,
21:43 the hurts,
the deep loneliness,
21:51 the depression, the anxiety,
21:54 the uncertainty, the fears,
21:59 and all the pleasant things
that we have,
22:03 and also suffering,
22:08 and ultimately
there is the pain of death.
22:16 We never look at this
whole movement as one,
22:23 but rather we consider it
22:30 Now we are going to look,
if we may, together,
22:36 not only at what is the cause
of this fragmentation
22:42 but also whether the brain,
which has been conditioned
22:49 for millions of years
22:53 to war, to conflict,
to work all the time,
23:04 endlessly chattering,
23:10 divided as tribes,
as nationalities and so on,
23:15 your god and my god,
23:18 Eastern philosophy opposed
to the Western philosophy.
23:24 You know all that is going on.
23:31 So if we could this morning
put aside altogether, if we can,
23:40 the whole movement
of agreeing and disagreeing,
23:45 in which there is choice
– right?
23:49 I choose to go that way
and you choose to go that way.
23:55 I choose to believe in God,
or no god,
24:00 and you say, ‘No, sorry
I can’t accept that,
24:05 there must be God,
24:08 because I believe it, I like it’
24:11 or ‘it is my tradition’
– and so on.
24:17 If we once recognise
the division,
24:23 the agreement and disagreement,
reward and punishment,
24:29 then we can begin
to look actually at ourselves,
24:39 because ourselves is the world.
24:48 What we are, the world is.
24:52 If we are violent, suspicious,
24:59 the world is like that.
25:01 This is obvious, isn’t it?
25:03 Because
we have made this society,
25:07 this monstrous, ugly,
immoral world
25:12 in which we live,
25:15 with all the gods,
and you know, all that business.
25:18 It has become a great circus,
25:21 painful circus,
or pleasurable circus.
25:28 So to see exactly what we are
25:35 without any distortion.
25:41 What are we?
25:44 Psychologically,
not biologically.
25:49 Biologically
it has been put together
25:53 through millennia upon millennia.
25:58 Psychologically
26:02 from the beginning of man
26:06 there is violence, hate,
26:12 jealousy, aggression,
26:16 trying to become always
something more, more
26:24 and much more
than what we are.
26:29 Is it that one is merely
listening to the description,
26:35 or see the fact, not the idea
of the fact? You understand?
26:44 There is a difference between fact
and the idea of the fact.
26:52 That is, we have an idea:
26:57 seeing something,
we make out of that an idea,
27:03 and then pursue the idea.
27:07 ‘I shouldn’t be like this
but I must be like that’
27:12 that's an idea!
27:15 First I see what I am,
not what I should be – right?
27:22 Then I see exactly what I am.
That is a fact.
27:28 Fact does not need an idea,
a concept, an ideology.
27:36 It is so. I am angry.
That is a fact.
27:40 But if I say, ‘I must not be angry’
then it becomes an idea.
27:47 Are we together in this?
27:50 So what is it
that you are making out of this?
27:54 Is it that you are concluding
a set of ideas,
27:58 or seeing the fact as it is?
28:03 – that we are jealous,
aggressive, lonely,
28:09 fear and all the rest of it?
28:13 The whole psyche,
the persona, the ego,
28:23 is all that.
28:29 Are you suspicious of this?
28:34 All this is the past,
the memories that we have collected.
28:44 I have been afraid,
I know what is fear,
28:49 and the moment that feeling arises
I say, ‘That is fear’.
28:55 The very saying that it is fear
is an idea, not a fact.
29:01 I don’t know
if you are following all this.
29:09 Sir, the word 'tree' is not
the actual tree
29:20 Right?
29:22 The name K is not the actual K.
29:28 The word is not the thing,
29:36 So when you observe
29:40 your brain is caught
in a whole network
29:46 of words, words, words.
29:51 Can you look at yourself
without the word?
29:57 Oh, come on, sirs,
play the game with me, will you?
30:03 The ball is in your court.
30:08 That is, can you look
at your wife, at your husband,
30:15 at your children, or your
girlfriend, or whatever it is,
30:19 without the word,
without the image?
30:27 That word, that image,
is the division. Right?
30:34 Can you look at the speaker
without the word?
30:41 – the word being
all the remembrances
30:45 about the speaker,
30:48 the reputation, what you
have read or not read,
30:52 and so on – just to observe.
30:58 Which means one must grasp,
31:01 understand
how the brain operates.
31:06 Your own brain,
not the brains of philosophers,
31:09 or the spiritual writers,
or the priests or somebody or other.
31:16 Just to observe yourself
without the word.
31:23 Then we can look
at certain facts,
31:31 why human beings get hurt.
31:37 That is very important to find out.
31:41 From childhood we are hurt
31:46 – do and don’t do
– right?
31:50 There is always the pressure,
31:55 always the sense of being
rewarded and punished.
32:04 You say something to me
which I don’t...
32:07 which I get angry about
and that hurts me, right?
32:13 So have we realized
a very simple fact
32:18 that from childhood
we are hurt,
32:22 and for the rest of our life
we carry that hurt.
32:27 Afraid of being hurt further,
32:32 or attempting
that one must not be hurt,
32:37 which is
another form of resistance.
32:42 So are we aware of these hurts
32:45 and that therefore
we create a barrier round ourselves,
32:51 the barrier of fear.
32:57 Can we go into this question:
33:04 Shall we?
33:06 Not for my pleasure,
for you I am talking about.
33:11 Can we go into it very deeply
and see
33:16 why human beings,
which is all of us,
33:21 why human beings
have put up with fear
33:27 for thousands of years.
33:38 We see
the consequences of fear.
33:43 Fear of not being rewarded,
33:46 fear of being a failure,
33:54 fear of your own feeling that
you must come to a certain point
34:00 and not being able to,
34:02 your weakness
– right?
34:06 And all this breeds
certain forms of fear.
34:12 Are you interested
in going into this problem?
34:20 It means going into it completely
to the very end,
34:24 not just saying,
‘Sorry, that's too difficult’.
34:28 Nothing is too difficult
if you want to do it.
34:32 The word ‘difficult’
prevents you from further action.
34:39 But if you can put away
that word ‘difficult’
34:44 then we can go
into this very complex problem,
34:51 not only verbally,
which is fairly
34:54 – we can explain all the causation,
all the effects
34:59 and the effects becoming
the cause and so on.
35:03 It's a chain.
35:08 First,
why do we put up with it?
35:15 If you have a car
which goes wrong,
35:19 you go to the nearest garage,
if you can,
35:23 and there the machinery
is put right and you go on.
35:28 Is it that we have not –
that there is no one we can go to
35:36 and he will help us
to have no fear
35:40 – you understand the question?
35:42 Do we want help from somebody
35:48 to be free of fear?
35:52 Psychologists, psychotherapists,
35:59 or the priest, confession,
or the guru who says,
36:05 'Surrender everything to me,
including your money,
36:08 then you will be
perfectly all right.'
36:16 We do this.
36:18 You may laugh,
you may be amused,
36:21 but we are doing this
all the time inwardly.
36:31 So, do we want help?
36:36 Prayer is a form of help,
36:41 asking to be free from fear
is a form of help.
36:48 The speaker telling you how to be
free of fear is a form of help.
36:54 But he is not going
to tell you how.
37:00 Because
we are walking together,
37:03 we are giving energy
37:08 to discover for yourself
the causation of fear.
37:15 If you see something
very clearly,
37:20 then you don’t have to decide,
37:24 or choose, or ask for help,
you act – right?
37:33 Do we see clearly
the whole structure,
37:39 the inward nature of fear?
37:46 Or you have been afraid
37:51 and the memory of that
comes back and says, ‘That's fear’
37:57 – you understand
what I am saying?
38:00 So let’s go into this carefully.
38:06 Not, the speaker is going into it
and then you agree or disagree,
38:11 but you yourself are taking
the journey with the speaker,
38:17 not verbally or intellectually,
38:20 or verbally, but delving,
38:25 probing, investigating
– right?
38:33 We are finding out
– no, we want to delve,
38:39 as you dig in the garden,
or to find water, you dig deep,
38:46 you don’t stand outside on the earth
and say, 'I must have water'.
38:51 You dig, or go to a river.
38:55 So first of all,
let’s be very clear:
38:58 do you want help
in order to be free of fear?
39:06 If you want help, then you are
establishing an authority
39:12 – right?
39:14 You are responsible then
for establishing an authority,
39:20 a leader, a priest.
39:26 So one must ask oneself, before
we go into this question of fear,
39:33 whether you want help.
39:38 Of course you go to a doctor,
39:43 if you can’t do certain
things for yourself,
39:46 if you have pain, or a headache,
or some kind of disease,
39:50 you naturally go to a doctor.
39:53 There he knows much more
the nature of your organ
40:01 so he tells you what to do.
40:03 We are not talking about
that kind of help.
40:08 We are talking about
whether you need help,
40:12 somebody to instruct you,
to lead you,
40:18 and to say, 'Do this, do that, day
after day, you will be free of fear.'
40:24 That means we want someone
to help us, right?
40:29 The speaker is not helping!
40:34 That is one thing certain.
40:38 Because you have
dozens of helpers,
40:43 from the great religious
leaders – God forbid –
40:50 and to the lowest, you know, the poor
psychologist around the corner.
41:00 So let us be very clear
between ourselves
41:04 that the speaker
doesn’t want to help you
41:08 in any way, psychologically.
41:14 Would you kindly accept that?
41:18 Honestly accept it?
Don’t say yes – it is very difficult.
41:21 And all your life you have sought
help in various directions,
41:27 some say,
'Yes, I don’t want help'.
41:32 It requires not only perception,
41:35 seeing what the demand for help
has done to humanity.
41:43 You ask help only
when you are confused,
41:46 when you don’t know what to do,
when you are uncertain
41:53 – right?
41:55 But when you see things clearly,
42:01 see, observe, perceive,
42:07 not only externally,
but inwardly much more,
42:11 when you see things very clearly
42:15 you don’t want any help
– there it is!
42:17 And from that, action.
42:21 Are we together in this?
42:23 Let’s again repeat,
if you don’t mind.
42:26 The speaker is not
telling you how.
42:31 Never ask that question ‘how’.
42:35 Then there is somebody
always giving you a rope.
42:41 So the speaker is not
helping you in any way.
42:47 But together we are walking
along the same road,
42:53 perhaps not at the same speed.
42:56 But set the speed of your own
and we will walk together.
43:03 Clear?
Nous sommes d'accord?
43:14 If you are not clear
about demanding help,
43:19 you will have to go
somewhere else.
43:22 Probably you will.
43:24 Or turn to a book,
or turn to somebody,
43:30 not towards the speaker.
43:35 Sorry to depress you.
43:39 Or to say, ‘Sorry, won’t stretch
out my hand’ – that is not it.
43:44 If we are walking together,
we are holding hands together.
43:48 There is no stretching your hand,
seeking help. Right?
44:01 Are we working together?
44:04 Or am I working
and getting hot about it?
44:16 What is the cause of fear?
44:22 Go slowly please.
44:24 Cause.
44:27 If you can discover the cause,
44:31 then you can do something
about it,
44:33 you can change the cause.
44:38 If a doctor tells the speaker
he has got cancer
44:43 – which he hasn’t – suppose
he tells me I have got cancer.
44:48 He says, 'I can remove it easily
and you will be all right.'
44:52 I go to him. He has to remove it.
The cause comes to an end.
45:10 So the cause can always be
changed, rooted out – clear?
45:19 If you have got a headache,
you can find the cause of it,
45:24 if you are eating wrongly,
or you are smoking too much,
45:28 or drinking too much
and all the rest of it,
45:31 either you stop it,
your drinking, smoking
45:35 or you take a pill to stop it.
45:38 The pill becomes then
the effect
45:42 which stops for the moment
the causation.
45:47 So cause and effect
can always be changed,
45:54 immediately,
or you take time over it.
45:58 If you take time over it,
then during that interval
46:04 all other factors enter into it.
46:08 So you never change the effect,
continue with the cause
46:13 – clear?
Are we together in this?
46:19 So what is the cause of fear?
46:24 Why haven’t we gone into it?
46:28 Why do we tolerate it,
knowing the effect of fear,
46:36 the consequences of fear?
46:39 If we are not at all
afraid psychologically,
46:44 no fear at all,
you would have no gods,
46:51 you would have
no symbols to worship,
46:55 no personalities to adore.
47:02 Then you are psychologically
extraordinarily free.
47:09 And also fear makes one shrink,
nervous, apprehensive,
47:17 wanting to escape from it
47:20 and therefore the escape becomes
more important than the fear.
47:24 You’re following?
47:29 So we are going
to go over together
47:34 to find out
what is the cause of fear.
47:39 The cause, the root of it.
47:42 And if we discover it for ourselves,
then it is over. Bien?
47:48 If you see the causation,
or many causes,
47:55 then that very perception
ends the cause.
48:06 Are you listening to me,
to the speaker,
48:11 to explain the causation?
48:15 Or you have never even
asked such a question?
48:22 I have borne fear, my father,
my great grandfather,
48:27 the whole race in which I am born,
the whole community,
48:32 the whole structure of gods,
rituals, is based on fear
48:39 and the desire to achieve
some extraordinary states.
48:48 Right?
48:58 So let us go into this.
49:03 We are not talking about,
49:19 ...we are not talking about
various forms of fear:
49:24 fear of darkness,
fear of one’s husband, wife,
49:28 fear of society, fear of dying,
fear of – you know,
49:32 we are not talking
of the various forms of fear.
49:40 It is like a tree that has got
many, many branches,
49:45 many flowers, many fruits,
the flowers become the fruit
49:50 – but we are talking about
the very root of that tree.
49:55 The root of it,
49:58 not your particular form of fear.
50:04 You can trace your particular form
to the root of it.
50:10 So we are asking:
are we concerned with our fears,
50:16 or with the whole fear?
50:22 With the whole tree,
not just one branch of it.
50:29 Because unless you understand
how the tree lives,
50:35 the water it requires,
the depth of the soil and so on,
50:40 merely trimming the branches
won’t do anything.
50:47 So we must go
to the very root of fear.
50:52 So what is the root of fear?
51:03 Don’t wait for me.
51:07 I am not your leader,
I am not your help,
51:10 I am not your guru
– thank God!
51:16 We are together
as two brothers,
51:20 and I mean it,
the speaker means it.
51:23 It is not just words.
51:26 As two good friends
51:30 who have known each other
from the beginning of time,
51:38 walking along the same path,
at the same speed,
51:42 looking at everything
that is around you and in you.
51:49 So together we will go into it.
Please, together.
51:54 Otherwise
it becomes just words,
51:57 at the end of the talk
you will say,
52:01 ‘Really, what am I to do
with my fear?’
52:08 Fear is very complex.
52:14 It is a tremendous reaction.
52:22 If you are aware of it,
it is a shock,
52:27 not only biologically,
52:29 but also
a shock to the brain.
52:33 The brain has a capacity,
– as one discovers,
52:36 not from what the others say –
52:38 it has capacity to remain
52:42 in spite of a shock, healthy.
52:46 Certain glands
– I don’t know all about it –
52:49 but the very shock
invites its own protection.
52:56 Right?
52:57 You go into it for yourself,
you will see.
53:00 So fear is a shock.
53:05 Momentarily, or it continues
in different forms,
53:14 different expressions,
different ways.
53:18 So we are going
to the very root of it.
53:26 To understand
the very root of it,
53:29 we must understand time
53:32 – right?
53:35 Time as yesterday,
time as today, time as tomorrow.
53:41 I remember something
I have done,
53:46 of which I am shy, or nervous,
or apprehensive, or fearful,
53:53 I remember all that, and it
continues to the future. Right?
54:01 I have been angry, jealous,
envious – that is the past.
54:08 I am still envious,
slightly modified,
54:11 because I am fairly generous
about things
54:14 but envy goes on.
54:17 This whole process is time,
isn’t it ?
54:25 You understand?
Say yes, for God’s sake!
54:30 No, don’t say yes!
You understand?
54:34 That is, what do we consider time?
Let’s begin again.
54:39 What do you consider is time?
54:42 By the clock, sunrise,
sunset, the evening star,
54:49 the new moon with the full moon
comes a fortnight later?
54:55 What is time to you?
54:59 Time to learn a skill?
55:03 Time to learn a language?
Time to write a letter?
55:08 Time to go
to your house from here?
55:12 All that is time as distance.
55:17 I have to go
from here to there.
55:20 That is a distance covered by time.
55:29 So time also is inward,
55:35 I am this, I must become that.
55:41 'Becoming that'
is called evolution.
55:47 Evolution means
from the seed to the tree.
55:53 And also I am ignorant
but I will learn.
56:01 I don’t know but I will know.
56:04 Give me time
to be free of violence.
56:11 You are following all this?
Give me time.
56:14 Give me a few days, or a month,
or a year, I will be free of it.
56:19 So we live by time.
56:23 Not only going to the office every day
from nine to five, God forbid,
56:30 but also time
to become something.
56:35 You understand all this?
56:39 Time, the movement of time.
56:44 I have been afraid of you
56:49 and I remember that fear
56:54 and that fear is still there,
56:57 and I will be afraid
of you tomorrow.
57:01 I hope not, but if I don’t do
something very drastic about it,
57:06 I will be afraid of you
57:09 So we live by time.
57:14 Be clear on this.
Please let’s be clear on this.
57:17 We live by time.
Which is, I am living, I will die.
57:26 I postpone death
as far away as possible
57:31 but I am living, and I am going
to do everything to avoid that,
57:38 though that is inevitable
– right?
57:43 So psychologically
as well as biologically,
57:47 we live by time.
57:52 Is time a factor of fear?
57:58 Please enquire.
58:04 Time, that is,
58:07 I have told a lie,
I don’t want you to know,
58:11 but you are very smart,
you look at me and say,
58:14 ‘Yes, you have told a lie’,
‘No, no, I have not’
58:18 – I protect myself instantly,
58:21 because I am afraid of your
finding out that I am a liar
58:26 – or partly liar.
58:30 So I am afraid
– right?
58:33 For something I have done,
which I don’t like you to know,
58:40 and I am afraid of that.
Which is what?
58:45 Thought, isn’t it?
58:49 I have done something
which I remember,
58:53 and that remembrance says,
be careful,
58:57 don’t let him discover
that you told a lie
59:01 because you have got a good
reputation as an honest man
59:06 and protect yourself.
59:10 So thinking and time
are together.
59:17 There is no division between
thought, thinking and time.
59:25 Are we clear on this matter?
59:34 Please be clear on this matter,
59:36 otherwise you will get
rather confused later.
59:42 The causation of fear is time/thought
– the root of it.
59:53 Audience: I am not quite clear.
59:55 K: Wait, sir.
59:57 You can ask questions when there is
a question and answer meeting,
1:00:02 I believe some time next week.
1:00:09 So are we clear on this thing
that time, that is, the past,
1:00:20 with all the things
that one has done,
1:00:25 and that thought,
whether pleasant or unpleasant
1:00:29 – especially if it is unpleasant,
I want to protect it,
1:00:34 or change it, or impossible
to change, therefore I say,
1:00:39 'By Jove, I am frightened of it.'
1:00:44 Which is thinking about it.
1:00:49 So time and thought
are the root of fear.
1:00:54 This is an obvious fact.
A very simple verbal fact.
1:01:02 But to go behind the word
1:01:06 and see the truth
of this time/thought.
1:01:14 Then you will inevitably ask:
1:01:17 how is thought to stop?
1:01:21 A natural question, no?
1:01:28 If thought creates fear,
which is so obvious,
1:01:33 then how am I to stop thinking?
1:01:37 You understand my question?
1:01:42 Tell me how am I
to stop thinking.
1:01:52 Because
I see the cause is thought,
1:01:55 because I remember what I did,
I am frightened of it,
1:02:00 I don’t want you to find out,
so it is thinking.
1:02:05 Then I ask you, 'Please help me
to stop my thinking.'
1:02:11 I would be an ass
to ask such a question
1:02:14 but I am asking it.
1:02:17 How am I to stop thinking?
Is that possible?
1:02:24 Go on, sir, investigate,
don’t let me go on.
1:02:29 Thinking.
1:02:32 Because we live by thinking.
1:02:35 Everything we do
is through thought.
1:02:41 To write a letter,
to learn a language,
1:02:43 to go to your office,
to do all the business,
1:02:48 the whole process of thinking.
1:02:50 We went into that carefully
the other day.
1:02:53 We won’t waste time
in going into the cause,
1:02:56 the beginning of thinking,
how it comes:
1:03:01 experience, knowledge,
which is always limited,
1:03:04 memory and then thought.
I am just briefly repeating this.
1:03:14 So is it possible
to stop thinking?
1:03:20 Is it possible
not to chatter all day long?
1:03:30 Giving the brain a rest,
1:03:36 though it has its own rhythm,
1:03:39 the blood going up to it,
its own activity
1:03:44 – its own, not the activity
imposed by thought –
1:03:48 you understand?
1:03:51 There seems to be
a lot of trains today!
1:04:10 May the speaker point out,
1:04:13 that is a wrong question.
1:04:18 Who is it that stops thinking?
1:04:22 You understand my question?
1:04:25 It is still thought, isn’t it?
1:04:30 When I say, ‘If I could only stop
thinking then I would have no fear’,
1:04:36 the very statement
that ‘I wish I could stop it’,
1:04:41 who is that that wishes
to stop thought?
1:04:46 It is still thought, isn’t it,
because it wants something else?
1:04:52 Right?
1:04:57 So, what will you do?
1:05:02 You understand my question?
1:05:06 Any movement of thought
to be other than what it is,
1:05:10 is still thinking!
1:05:15 I am greedy, but I must not be greedy,
it is still thinking.
1:05:20 Thinking has put together
all the paraphernalia,
1:05:25 all that business that goes on
in churches and all that,
1:05:28 is put together by thought.
1:05:33 Like this marquee or tent
1:05:35 is put together carefully
by thought.
1:05:40 So thought is the very root
of our existence, apparently.
1:05:50 So we are asking
a very serious question,
1:05:54 seeing what thought has done,
1:05:57 invented the most
extraordinary things:
1:06:00 computer, the warships,
the missiles, the atom bomb,
1:06:10 the surgery, medicine
– if you like medicine –
1:06:17 and also the things
it has made man do,
1:06:22 go to the moon and so on.
1:06:26 Thought is the very root of fear.
1:06:33 Do we see that?
Not how to end thought.
1:06:38 Do we see actually thinking is
the root of fear, which is time?
1:06:48 Seeing, not the words ‘I am seeing’,
but actually see.
1:06:56 When you have pain,
severe pain,
1:07:02 the pain is not different from you,
you act instantly.
1:07:08 So do you see as clearly
as you see the clock,
1:07:14 the speaker, and your friend
sitting beside you,
1:07:18 see that thought is
the causation of fear?
1:07:29 Please don’t ask,
‘How am I to see?’
1:07:35 The moment you ask how,
someone is willing to help you,
1:07:42 then you become their slave.
1:07:46 But if you...
1:07:58 ...if you yourself see thought/time
are really the root of fear.
1:08:09 Take time, take deliberation.
1:08:14 It doesn’t need decision,
just the seeing.
1:08:18 A scorpion is poisonous,
a snake is poisonous,
1:08:23 in the very perception of it,
you act.
1:08:32 So one asks:
why don’t we see?
1:08:39 Why don’t we see one of the
causes of war is nationalities
1:08:47 – right?
One of the causes.
1:08:49 Why don’t we see
that one may be called a Muslim,
1:08:55 and you may be called a Christian
1:08:58 – why do we fight over names,
over propaganda?
1:09:02 Right?
1:09:04 Do we see it, or just
memorize or think about it?
1:09:13 You understand, sirs,
that you are
1:09:20 – your consciousness
is the rest of mankind.
1:09:26 Mankind, like you and others,
1:09:32 mankind goes through
every form of difficulty,
1:09:36 pain, travail, anxiety,
1:09:41 loneliness, depression,
sorrow, pleasure,
1:09:44 every human being
goes through this.
1:09:48 Not only the Swiss, not only you,
but every human being,
1:09:56 all over the world, whether
they be Russian, American, etc.
1:10:01 So our consciousness, our being,
is the entire humanity.
1:10:11 Do you understand?
This is so.
1:10:13 How unwilling we are to accept
such a simple fact.
1:10:20 Because we are so accustomed
to individuality. Me first.
1:10:29 So if you see that, if you see
that your consciousness is shared
1:10:34 by all other human beings
living in this marvellous earth
1:10:42 then your whole way
of living changes.
1:10:50 But we don’t see that.
1:10:54 You need argument,
you need lots of persuasion,
1:10:59 pressure, propaganda,
which are all so terribly useless
1:11:06 because it is you, that you have
to see these things for yourself.
1:11:18 So can we, each of us,
1:11:24 who are the rest of mankind,
who are mankind,
1:11:29 look at a very simple fact,
observe, see
1:11:34 that the causation of fear
is thought/time?
1:11:46 Then the very perception
is action.
1:11:56 And from that
you don’t rely on anybody.
1:12:05 The guru is like you
– you understand?
1:12:11 The leader may put on
different robes
1:12:15 and put on all the jewels,
1:12:19 just strip him of all that
and he is just like you and me.
1:12:29 But he has achieved greater power
and we also want greater power,
1:12:35 money, position, status.
1:12:41 So could we look at all this,
see it very clearly,
1:12:49 and then that very perception
ends all this rubbish.
1:12:57 Then you are a free person.
1:13:18 May we stop?
1:13:22 And may we get up?
1:13:25 For the speaker to get up
you have to get up.