Krishnamurti - Is there a total action which will be sane in an insane world?

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SM72T2 - Is there a total action which will be sane in an insane world?
Santa Monica, California - 19 March 1972
Public Talk 2

0:21	Krishnamurti: We were saying yesterday morning that in a world that is so insane and confused, where there are so many religious leaders and politicians, where there is so much violence, sorrow and a sense of utter despair, it seems natural that one should become a light to oneself. And it is possible only when we understand our conditioning and go beyond it. That is what we were, more or less, talking about yesterday morning. And I think we ought to continue where we left off.
1:48	We have broken up life as the outer and the inner. The outer existence, which demands certain activities, certain labours, jobs, and an inward life which is also in turmoil, in confusion. When one is concerned with having a job in this world, in this insane society, and what is one to do – if one has a job – one is contributing to further confusion, further misery, further insanity. And inwardly, we want to live a different kind of life, separated from the outer, a life that is fairly peaceful, clear, rational, without too much conflict, and perhaps find something, come upon something which is not corruptible, which is not put together by thought or by a cunning mind. So we separate the two, the inner and the outer, and yet we don't see – unfortunately, I think – that they are interrelated. That is, is there a total action in a society that is so corrupt, polluted, so utterly insane? Is there a total action which corresponds both to the inner and to the outer?
4:22	And to merely be concerned whether we should pay a tax or be conscripted – or is it called draft here, in this country – and so on, as though that was something separate, apart from our innermost desires, longings, hopes, fears, pleasures. And as we said, they are interrelated, the two are not separate. And to separate them is another form of insanity, because the more inwardly one is aware, concerned with the understanding of the totality of existence, not a particular segment of it, then that concern, that awareness, brings about an action in the outer which is not contradictory to the inner. So we are asking, is there a total action which will be sane in an insane world, which will be rational in an irrational world, which will bring about order out of confusion, which will give a sense of joy and beauty to existence, which at present has none whatsoever. So in considering this question, which is, is there a total action, an action which is not inner or outer, but an action that is totally related, totally complete, so that when there is an outward action, it is as complete as the inward action?
7:06	You know, this has been a problem that confronts all of us. When the speaker goes to India and talks there, where there is so much poverty, unemployment, overpopulation – for one job there are probably 10,000 people asking for that job, looking – this problem becomes extraordinarily important: how to act so that there is no contradiction, how to act so that one brings sanity, how to act so that the social structure is changed, transformed. This question must be asked by each one of us. I am sure we are all asking this question, not slurring over it, not trying to gloss over the complications of it, but what is one – if one is young – to do?
8:34	To answer that question one must go very much more deeply than what is action in relation to a particular issue, whether one should join the army, be conscripted, drafted, what kind of job one should have, and so on. To go into this problem very deeply, and it is only in the understanding of the fullness of the problem that the superficial problem is answered. But if you merely deal with the superficial problem superficially, then it leads to much more confusion, conflict and misery and mischief. So, in considering this question: is there a total action which will be harmonious outwardly and inwardly, sane, completely rational, healthy? Are you waiting for me to answer this question? I see you are. Please don't wait, because we are going to share together this problem. The speaker may have solved it for himself. The speaker is probably a beggar and that is good enough for him. And if you are waiting for an answer from the speaker to see how you can apply what he says to a particular problem, or understand the total problem according to his answer, then you are not sharing. Then you are merely accepting another formula, another concept, as you have accepted so many formulas and concepts. And a concept is not an answer. An idea is not an answer. A conglomeration of beliefs is not an answer to a fundamental question as this. So, we are going to share together the problem. That is, we are together, sensitively, hesitantly and rationally examine this problem. And in the understanding of the problem together you will find the answer for yourself. Which is far more important than being told what to do, what is the total action. So we are not concerned with formulas or conclusions, concepts, on which you have been brought up.
12:53	The other day someone asked, 'What do you do?' and I didn't know how to reply and I said, I don't quite know what I do. I am some kind of talker, philosopher, you know, all that kind of stuff. 'And what is your philosophy?' I said, it isn't my philosophy. Philosophy means the love of truth, which is not yours or mine. Love of truth. And here is the same problem. We are concerned with something extraordinarily important. And there are very few serious people in the world, very few who will tackle this problem completely. And in a world surrounded by people who are not interested, who are not serious, who are completely concerned with their own pleasures, with their own amusements, with their own satisfactions, and a few that might be interested, deeply, what are they to do in a world that is so superficial, so casual, so thoughtless?
14:48	So there are these two problems, which is, what is a serious person to do, concerned with a total action, and what is that serious person, what is his relationship with the vast majority of the world, of the human beings which want a society as it is with slight modifications? They want complete security – it doesn't matter what happens to any others. They want a way of life that will give them their satisfaction, their fulfilment and all that business. So there are these two problems. Now, to go into this question very deeply, one has to understand what is the motive, what is the drive, the energy that is behind our action. The action of a man who is trying to seek a total action which corresponds both to the inner and the outer, in which there is no contradiction and therefore no conflict? What is the essence of this drive? Is it not – please, I am enquiring, I don't say it is or it is not, we are together understanding this problem – is it not the drive and the search for pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure? Please, don't answer me. Just look at it. We are going to explore it. This is just the beginning of it. Our society is based on this, on the pursuit of pleasure, continuity of pleasure, through position, power, through money, through sex.
17:52	We are not saying that pleasure is wrong, we are not becoming puritanical. We are examining. And to examine very clearly you must be free from your puritanical upbringing or your Victorian upbringing or whatever your upbringing is. There must be freedom to enquire, and therefore there must be no previous conclusion or come to any conclusion as you are enquiring. So, is not most of our action, both outwardly and inwardly, based on this pursuit in subtle or gross form, of pleasure? And what is the difference between pleasure, enjoyment and joy? We have to understand these three things.
19:28	When you walk in a wood or along the beach, there is great delight, there is great pleasure: the beauty of the land, the trees, the birds, the light on the water, the sunset among the hills, that peculiar atmosphere that comes about when the sun is setting. When you see in the sky the evening star, that is great pleasure, there is great joy in that. What is wrong with it? The other day, a so-called teacher, a guru, said, when it was pointed out what a beautiful town this was, what a lovely tree that was, he said, 'I haven't time to bother with all that.' So what is wrong to look at a beautiful thing or to eat a perfect food like mango or an orange, what is wrong with it? There is pleasure in it. But when you insist that you must eat mango or orange or have the beautiful sunset every day of your life, and pursue it, subtly, consistently, doggedly, then that pursuit brings about an imbalance. And when you are imbalanced there is neurotic, contradictory action. That is one of the facts of this pursuit of pleasure. Haven't you noticed this? And in the pursuit of this pleasure there is not only imbalance, contradictory action, neurotic activity, but also behind it there is a sense of contradiction. You are never enjoying anything, but wanting to have more of it. Have you not noticed all this? When you are seeking power, as most people are, whether it is power in a small group or in a family, you know, what is going on in America – Women's Lib, is it? – power, domination, assertion, aggression, all these are forms of pleasure. And society in which we live encourages this kind of pleasure. That is, the pursuit of pleasure. The pursuit of pleasure is entirely different from enjoyment. When you see a beautiful sunset, you enjoy it. The colour, the light, the purity of an evening – perhaps not in Los Angeles – and the beauty of it is really quite extraordinary, and you enjoy it. That enjoyment is taken over by thought, and thought says, I must have it tomorrow, and you pursue that, then it becomes pleasure.
24:35	So, without understanding pleasure, enjoyment, and that strange thing called joy, which cannot be invited – you cannot practice a system in order to be joyous, or go to school or college, or attend groups, therapy, or whatever you do in this strange country, analysed in order to be joyous, you are just being insane – joy comes when you are not there. When you – with all your problems, with your miseries, with your pettiness – is nonexistent, then that happens. Haven't you noticed it for yourself? When you are not thinking about yourself, your wife, your problems, you know, when the mind is quiet, not concerned, has no problem, suddenly this strange thing comes, a total sense of harmony, of complete unity with everything. And that brings about a tremendous sense of ecstasy, joy.
26:17	So there are these three things: joy, real enjoyment, which is prevented when you are pursuing pleasure. So without going into this problem completely, not theoretically, not in abstraction, not linguistically, which is intellectually, but actually observing yourself, how you are constantly pursuing this thing. And encouraged by a commercial society, and you say to yourself, How am I to act in this insane world, in this commercial world, so that I neither encourage this society, and yet I have to live in it, and so we go off on a tangent. But whereas, if you enquired, as we are doing now, into this question of action, and action is always in the present, not in the future or in the past. Action means that, the doing, not having done or going to do. Now, when you and I together look at this, are we looking at the problem verbally? You understand what I mean – verbally. Because I have used certain words which may evoke in you certain responses, and according to those responses you are looking at the problem.
28:59	Please, listen to this. So you are verbally stimulated to look at the problem, and therefore you are stimulated by the speaker to look, but you are not actually looking – you are stimulated. Which is entirely different from you actually looking at it without any stimulation, observing. So, if you observe non-verbally, without any conclusion, that is, conclusion being verbal images which you have built or which have been handed to you, and through those verbal conclusions you look. So, if you look either through a verbal stimulation of another or through your own conclusions, a verbal image that you have, then you are actually not participating in observing what is actually going on. That is, you are not facing facts. You are facing facts through a series of ideas or conclusions. Am I making myself clear? Because this is rather important, if you don't mind. Which is, how do you look at this question of action, the motive behind that action, the persistent pursuit of pleasure through power, with all its nuances, subtleties, through money, through sex – how do you look at it? Are you an outsider looking in, saying, yes, that is so, or the very act of looking is the total action? You get what I am saying? Are we meeting each other? No, I am afraid not. Look, sir, total action implies total awareness, listening – action. It implies a look, an action in which there is no division as the outer or inner, acting according to a formula, an idea, a concept or an image, because they bring about a division. And to be free of them, so that you can look at the whole problem. When you are capable of looking at the total problem then that very look is the total action.
33:35	Look, let me put it differently. I see we are not communicating with each other. You know what communication means? To share, to create, to work, to think together. If you are thinking of something else and the speaker is going on talking about his own thing, then you are not meeting each other. We have a problem. I want to earn a livelihood, I have to. And I see, in this world which is quite appalling, quite frightening, and strangely mad, I see that and I say, now, what am I to do? Shall I join them? If I do, I shall continue maintaining the insanity, whether the insanity is in China or in Russia or in this country or anywhere else. We are not the sane people apart from those insane people. We are all in the same boat. Now what am I to do? I have to earn a livelihood, I have to have a job. Am I to be concerned only with the job? And seeing if I do, whatever I do, I contribute to war. So how shall I meet this problem? And it is a very vital problem to me. It isn't just a superficial problem, it is my life. I have another 50 years to live. I want to live rightly, I want to live decently, I want to live with clarity, with happiness, not endlessly run after the analysts and the gurus and all the rest of that business. So, what am I to do? And I see action in my life is broken up. I am one thing on one occasion, another on another occasion, and so on – broken up, fragmented. And my actions are also fragmented: my private life and my public life. My private life, with all my pleasures, joys, agonies, and public life in which I comply, become a mechanic or whatever it is.
37:10	So I want to find out an action which is totally harmonious, whole, complete, which has meaning in my life. And in enquiring what is this action, I dig deeper and I say, what is behind every action in my life? Every action. The action that, in the outer world, I must have security, a roof, clothes, and in getting the clothes, the house, all that, food, I am contributing to the confusion of a society. And inwardly, what is my action? Why am I broken up? And I know when there is this fragmentation, it leads to insanity, contradiction, conflict, misery, guilt, agony. So, in enquiring, I want to find out what is this total action. How am I to find it? Not to be told by some professor or a professional, I want to find out for myself, because it is my life. What is this total action? And I see the motive behind all action – fear, pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure, and therefore in its wake, the shadow of fear. And I also want to enjoy life, the extraordinary earth in which we live. It is our earth, not your earth, the American or the Russian or the Indian. It is our earth to live in, to be taken delight in, which we are spoiling, corrupting, destroying. And so, then I come to this thing: how do I look at this, look at this question of pleasure, fear, and the persistent pursuit of pleasure? How do I look at it? Do I look at it as a verbal statement, a conclusion, or do I look at it completely, as when I do when I am hungry? There is no division in that state, I am hungry, it is an immediate response, reaction, which demands an action.
40:51	So do I look at this non-verbally, without any conclusion, without previous evaluation? Therefore am I looking at it completely? And that is where our problem is. If I know how to look at that thing completely – my disharmony, inwardly and outwardly, the contradictory action inwardly and outwardly, the fragmentation of every kind of action of my life – do I look at it from the outside, or there is no outsider at all but only that, which is the fact. When there is only the fact, you have total energy to deal with that fact. Then that fact undergoes a radical change. It is only when you look at the fact, at 'what is' with a conclusion, with a verbal image, with a prejudice, then you are dissipating energy in contradiction. Whereas if you can look at the fact of 'what is' then without any contradiction, without any verbal conclusion, then you have tremendous action, there is tremendous energy, which is action, which changes 'what is'. Have you got it? Have some of you got it? Audience: Yes.
42:54	K: Thank God. Now you see, sir, which means, a man who is seeking, understanding action, does not seek power. Right? He needs money, but does not use money to derive pleasure, which is the 'me' that derives pleasure. You understand? And one of our major problems in the world is sex, apparently.
43:47	Q: How are you doing? K: How am I doing? I don't quite understand, sir.
43:55	Q: How is your sex life?
43:59	K: The gentleman wants to know how is my sex life. Good God. Please don't. Wait, sir, I will tell you later. If I want to tell you, and if it is worthwhile recording what my sex life is or is not. We are concerned with this problem – not somebody's problem, our problem, your problem – which is, through sex, the constant pursuit of pleasure, and what happens there when that is denied or when there is an uncertainty, when there is conflict. There is an imbalance, there is neurotic activity, inaction goes on. And as this society has made sex as the greatest thing in life, even more than your gods and saviours, you have to answer it, haven't you? Why you as a human being have made this such an issue. And because you have made this such an issue it has become a problem, a terrible thing when you get old. We are always seeking, flirting. And so you have to answer, not I. I have no problems about it at all. I don't make it into the most important thing in life, as an escape from myself, or through sex find something extraordinarily noble, or some extraordinary state of experience. Those are all rather childish, immature. So, it is not what my sex life is, but what your life is. Why are you concerned about the speaker? As I said yesterday, the speaker is not of importance at all. What is important is you, your life. So when we give to pleasure the greatest importance in all our directions, and the pursuit of it, you must lead the most extraordinarily unbalanced life, which you do. And this unbalanced life creates the insane society, which you have created. So without understanding deeply and going beyond it, because we have based our morality, our virtue, our conduct on pleasure. You may sacrifice, that sacrifice is also a form of pleasure. So you have to see this whole phenomenon, not as a fragment, not in one particular direction but as a whole. And the seeing of the whole is the total action.
49:08	Have I talked enough? Wait a minute, sir.
49:24	You see, religion plays a great part in the pursuit of pleasure. I am sorry I forgot to include that. Power, money, sex and God. Lovely combination, isn't it? Laugh at it – it is quite amusing. Because religions, as they have been organised, offer this. And the highest form of pleasure and the pursuit of it, the discipline, the various sanctions the religions have offered is in the line of this. So, to see all this together, not as a religious life, a political life, a life of a family, life of just earning a job and going off to the beach and lying in the sun – those are all fragmentary actions, but to see this whole phenomena. Then if you see it, then you will act, from the total perception, the particular. You understand? It is like seeing a map of this country, the total map of this country, all the roads, the villages, the towns. Then you know where you are going because you have seen the total thing. And the mind that does not see this, but merely concerned with a job and trying to see how you can live in a society that is so corrupt, to him it becomes a torture. You know, one has talked so long about this, not only about action, about seeing the totality of life, the total movement of life. And to see that totally, one has to also look at this extraordinary division between the conscious as well as the unconscious. Why we have created that division, why the analysts have given such extraordinary importance to this division. I know it is very profitable, but why? Why this division? So is it possible – and we haven't time now to go into this question of the unconscious and the conscious – why this division?
53:02	We have divided the world religiously, politically, beaurocratically, technologically, nationally, religiously, and in ourselves we are fragmented. Surely this fragmentation and this division leads to great insanity, great contradiction in our own lives. And being in contradiction, we are trying to be very sane. Sanity can only come when you have understood – not somebody else helps you to understand – when you have understood yourself, your own contradiction, are aware of it. Then out of that awareness comes sanity, and from that sanity you earn a livelihood. You earn a job. Then that sanity, that action, will not be complied with a society that is corrupt. You are bringing something incorruptible. That is the first thing to find out for ourselves. And I assure you – you don't want any assurance from the speaker, sorry – in this there is great beauty. It is love. Without that, without this quality of beauty, quality of mind, quality of love, your job, your gods, your reformation of bringing about a new society has no meaning. And you are the builder of a new society, therefore you as a human being have to change radically. Now, perhaps you would like to ask some questions. Just a minute, sir.
55:39	Q: I am a devotee of Sri Ramana Maharshi, and when he was asked about the significance of Christ and the illumination of St Paul, he said, 'Illumination is absolute, not associated with form.' After St Paul became Self-conscious, he identified the illumination with Christ consciousness. Then (a man) said that St Paul was not a lover of Christ. And (he) said, love or hatred is immaterial, the thought of Christ was there.
56:40	K: May I ask – sorry to interrupt you – could you make it brief? I have to repeat the question.
56:49	Q: I would like to understand why love or hatred in this situation was immaterial?
57:01	K: The gentleman wants to know, first of all quoting St Paul who apparently had illumination, and that illumination he said was absolute, but when he identified himself with something, out of that identification grew hate and love – why this contradiction.
57:35	K: Is that the question? Q: Yes.
57:40	K: Look, I know nothing about St Paul. Do you? And how important is it what somebody else says, it doesn't matter who it is. You know, sirs, this question of authority, which conditions our minds so deeply, is one of the most terrible things on earth. You go to India and there they quote scriptures by the yard, and they say, are you saying this according to the scriptures? Have you read them or are you sharing with them? And so on. They can't put all that aside and look at their own life. And they are frightened to look at their own life, it is an act of self-deception, an act of escape from themselves. I am not saying you are doing that, sir. All that I am saying is: is there such a thing as absolute goodness? Call it by whatever name you like: enlightenment, truth, the immeasurable, the unnameable, and so on – is there such a thing as total goodness, absolute goodness? You enquire. And if you look to an answer in any of the scripture or any of the philosophers, you are not answering it for yourself, you are answering it according to somebody's explanation. And that becomes so utterly valueless. It isn't vanity that says, I must find out for myself. It is an act of humiliation, of humility, that says, I know nothing. Others may be true, what they have said, but I know nothing. So you abnegate all authority, deny it, and therefore you become extraordinarily humble to find out. And we are afraid to be so open, honest, for we like to be very proud of our knowledge, the depth of our reading. But you may read all the books in the world, but if you yourself have not understood what goodness is, and the flowering of that goodness in your life, what value is it what others say?
1:01:36	Yes, sir?
1:01:38	Q: I would like to ask, I heard you, I think I understand, but I have a question about the persistent pursuit of pleasure. It has been my experience, in the last year, that I found an altogether new and wonderful joy in myself and working with others, in a calm pursuit of sex, money, God, power, distribution of it, a fair distribution of all of those things. And I work with people, so I see strong and growing elements of rationality, not utter irrationality in some movements that I am involved with. I see joy and people trying to break out of past rigidities.
1:02:48	K: So, are you saying, sir, that because you are no longer pursuing pleasure, you are in a state with others, or with a community of people, that you are joyous?
1:03:09	Q: I think I am joyous because in the last year I found out that it was okay to calmly pursue pleasure.
1:03:17	K: Oh, you are saying it is perfectly all right to pursue pleasure. Is that it?
1:03:25	Q: And to work for it. K: Yes, sir. I mean, if you and I and a half a dozen people are pursuing pleasure and all work together for that pleasure, it is lovely. We all get rather delighted with each other, and joy. But have we gone into this question sufficiently deeply: what is implied in this pursuit? You may pursue pleasure, I am not saying you should or should not, that is up to you, but what is implied in this?
1:03:58	Q: If we eliminate all external authority, what will keep the world from anarchy?
1:04:05	K: Wait a minute, sir. I never said exclude all authority. How can you exclude all authority, outside authority? When you drive on the road, you keep to the – left side here? – yes, left side of the road. In Europe, you keep to the right side. There are laws. You have to pay tax or whatever it is, there are laws which you have to obey. But I am talking of the psychological dependence on authority, whether the guru or the priest or the analyst or your wife or husband – the authority.
1:04:49	Q: But we are then put in a situation...
1:04:52	K: Sir, wait a minute. I haven't answered the first question, if you don't mind. The gentleman said he finds great pleasure in the pursuing of pleasure, and there is great joy in it. And working together with people, that joy is spreading, is involving, inviting. And we are enquiring into that question. I wonder how we can explain this a little more differently? You know, have you ever considered how pleasure and the pursuit of pleasure divides people? Haven't you considered that? Divides people, that is – you, in your pursuit of pleasure, according to your belief – you believe in some deity, some saviour, some guru – in the pursuit of that pleasure, you have your fellow members in that path, in that group. That group is separate from another group which has its own guru, its own leader, its own political boss, and they find pleasure in that. isn't there a division between these two? The Catholic, completely absorbed in his Catholicism, in his dogma, in his belief, in his saviour, in all that, and that group is extraordinarily vital, extraordinarily joyous, and there is the other group who say, look, we don't believe in all that stuff. So there is this division. As there is inwardly, there is division, because you pursue pleasure, consistently, doggedly. And there is always this sense of distrust, anxiety, fear. So, all this exists. Haven't you noticed also, when you are pursuing pleasure, how self-centred you are? And being self-centred, you collect other people who are also self-centred. Haven't you noticed all these things? So, we are talking of total action, not in a particular society, total action of a human being whether he lives in India, in China, in Russia or in this country. You know, sir, this is a marvellous country. I am not praising you. America, the country, is a beautiful country, one of the most beautiful countries in the world. And you are destroying it. You have seen those hills, how they are ripping it up? Well, that is up to you.
1:08:56	Q: Sir, I have another question I would like to ask.
1:08:59	K: Yes, sir? Just a minute, madame.
1:09:05	Q: I have a question. K: Yes, sir.
1:09:08	Q: In my life, I thought about all my friends and what I wanted to do with them. I realise that we were all people and I notice that, as we always tried to get together and move in a direction where we would always come closer together, in recent times we have moved farther apart, in career, in jobs, in travel. And I said to myself, that is not what I wanted. And I came up with the idea that if I chose one of my friends to be a number one, with the rest of them being number one, and I started to put my attention on him and give him what he wanted on his terms, and he started to give my other friends what they wanted on their terms, then everything would move forward and we would be happy. I am working on that but I am curious.
1:10:03	K: Would you kindly make the question brief? What is the question?
1:10:10	Q: In trying to get closer to my wife and friends, I noticed that I didn't. So I chose one particular friend above all the others and made him number one, and gave him all he wanted, and he in turn gave all the others all they wanted. I am working on it – what do you think of this idea?
1:10:31	K: Have you heard the question? Have you all heard the question, have I to repeat it? Sir, we are not laughing, I am just asking. Have all of you heard the question? Right. I can't get on with my wife and friends but I can get on with one person. And that one person helps the others, he gets on with the others. What is the problem in this? I can't get on with my wife, therefore I can get on with others – is that it?
1:11:21	Or I have chosen one person with whom I can get on. Just a minute, let's go at this differently. What is relationship? To be related, what does it mean? Relationship means to be related, to be in contact with, not only physically but psychologically, inwardly. Are we related to anybody, except of course father and mother, etc. I am not talking of that, but are we related to anybody? Are you related to me and am I related to you? Are you related to your wife? To your father, to your mother? To your friend, to your girl, to your boy? Are you? What does this word relationship mean? Not only to be physically in contact, but also it means much deeper than that, surely. To be related with somebody actually means to be related at all levels of one's being, doesn't it? No? I may be related to my wife – I am not married – I may be related to my wife physically. I may not be related intellectually, spiritually – if I can use that word. I may not be related to her at all except physically. Is that relationship? I spend a great part of my life in an office, in a factory, and come home with my own ambitions, greeds, insults, all the agonies, pains, and have I related to my wife? So relationship means, doesn't it, to be related totally, completely, at all levels of one's being: physically, emotionally, intellectually, subtly, you know, the whole thing. That means love, doesn't it? When there is love, you are related at all levels at the same time, with the same intensity. But we are not, unfortunately. We have images which intervene, which divide, which make us fragmented. And this is what we call relationship. See again, we go superficially, try to solve our problems superficially, when the problem is so very deep, and we don't take trouble, we don't give thought, enquiry into this question, deeply. We are satisfied by some superficial answer. If I want to live in relationship with somebody I must be without any image about myself or about that person. There must be no barrier. Of course, sir, you listen to this, you feel it for the moment, verbally, but you go away and you fall back into the old trap. So what is important is to see if you are actually, in daily life, related, so that you have no barrier, no resistance. And when there is no resistance, no barrier, no division, then there is no conflict, both with that person or within yourself. That is the beauty of relations, that is the beauty of living together in a commune or in a family or in a community. Yes, madame.
1:16:47	Q: I wonder if you could clarify a contradiction. I have, for the past few years, learned a great deal by listening to you, about getting in touch with... [inaudible]. I find that the same thing has been done or is being attempted by an organisation for millions of women. I am, of course, referring to the Women's Liberation movement. Through consciousness raising, trying to raise the consciousness of women.
1:17:38	K: I see, I understand, madame. I am working for the Women's Lib, Liberation, and we are trying to raise women's consciousness to a higher level. What do you say about it? You know, first of all, have the men raised their consciousness to such a level that women also have to reach that level? Are men so astonishingly superior because they are technologically capable, going to a factory, inventing, engineering, you know, all the things that men are doing. The most appalling things and marvellous things, killing each other. And their consciousness is so noble, and you want to raise yours to their level?
1:18:56	Q: We want to raise ourselves for ourselves. Let men raise their consciousness.
1:19:01	K: I am questioning the whole thing. Wait a minute, please. I am not a politician, I don't want your encouragement. As I said the other day or yesterday, please clap when the speaker is not here. Look, do you know to raise consciousness, what it means? You see, you use that phrase. What does it mean? Who is to raise consciousness? What is consciousness? What is your consciousness, as a Women's Lib, or being a simple woman living in an unfortunate world, what is your consciousness which you are going to raise to a higher level? What is your consciousness? Your consciousness is what it contains, isn't it. No? My consciousness is the content which exists in that consciousness: my greed, envy, ambition, my nationality, my fears, my guilt, my pursuit of pleasure, you follow, a dozen things. That makes my consciousness, doesn't it? Right? Now, who is going to raise that consciousness? Another part of me who is equally stupid or equally cunning? Raise that to what – you follow? What are you all doing, for God's sake, when you talk of raising consciousness?
1:21:07	Q: We raise our own consciousness, each one for ourself.
1:21:11	K: What do you mean by raising your own consciousness?
1:21:16	Q: Become aware of who you are.
1:21:20	K: What are you? A woman? Because you have got a physical... you are a woman and therefore you want to raise your consciousness differently? Sir, do look at it. Please don't answer me. Do look at it, for God's sake. What a mess we are making of this world! You, a woman, or a man, women have been ill-treated for thousands of years. You go to the East, you will know it much more than you do it here. You are just playing with words. You go to India, go to Asia, the Arab world, the woman is kept, you know – I won't go into all that. The women there are treated as chattel, slaves. Here, you are fortunately different, and you want equal rights, equal pay, etc., as the men have. All right, you will have it. You are struggling, fighting, propagandising, raising your standards to that level. All right, then what?
1:22:44	Q: We don't think that is the point. K: That is not the point?
1:22:48	Q: No. The point is that women, in addition to being enslaved, they are also being trained not to be aware of themselves.
1:22:59	K: Ah, wait a minute. She is saying, they are not aware of themselves. Yesterday morning and today, I talked about being aware of yourself, not as a woman or a man – be aware of yourself. Why don't you?
1:23:25	Q: Because of fear.
1:23:27	K: Fear. All right, then be aware of that fear.
1:23:31	Q: And then?
1:23:34	K: Just a minute, madame. Look, listen to me, two minutes. Look, I am aware as a man. Oh God, I am not – sorry. I am aware. I am aware of my reactions, of my thoughts, my attitude towards a woman or a man, another fellow being, another human being. I am aware how I look at them, how I treat them. I am aware of this division, if there is a division between me and another. And in that awareness, there is a disappearing of all division. Then I am totally a human being. Then in that awareness I find out various forms of fear, anxiety, I face them, I understand them, I look at them – they are facts. And to go beyond is to be human. When you are human you are not a woman or man, we are human beings living together. You see, sirs, please do listen to something. Don't – please, if I may suggest most hesitantly – don't become superficial. don't live on a verbal level. don't live with slogans. Go deeply into yourself and find out. If you are raising your consciousness as a human being, then you have to understand what that consciousness is, how man has ill-treated women, and how women also have ill-treated men. Look at the whole picture, not only in this country but the rest of the world. You are part of the world, we have made this world. And you kind of separate yourself into a little corner called America and try to solve. It is a world problem this, problem of human relationship. And if you don't solve it now, today, not in some future, you are going to create such havoc in the world.