Krishnamurti Subtitles

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San Diego - 17 February 1972

Conversation with Eugene Shallert 2



0:03 Q: Krishnamurti in Dialogue Q: Krishnamurtiho rozhovor
with Father Eugene Schallert s Otcom Eugenom Schallertom
   
0:07 J. Krishnamurti was born in South J. Krishnamurti sa narodil v Južnej
India and educated in England. Indii a vzdelával sa v Anglicku.
   
0:12 For the past 40 years he has been Za posledných 40 rokov rozpráva
speaking in the United States, po USA,
   
0:16 Europe, India, Australia Európe, Indii, Austrálii
and other parts of the world. a v iných èastiach sveta.
   
0:20 From the outset Od samého poèiatku
of his life's work jeho celoživotného diela
   
0:22 he repudiated odmietal
all connections všetky spojenia
   
0:24 with organised s organizovanými
religions and ideologies náboženstvami a ideológiami
   
0:27 and said that a povedal, že jeho
his only concern jedinou staros ou
   
0:29 was to set man absolutely, je úplne, bezpodmieneène
unconditionally free. oslobodi èloveka.
   
0:33 He is the author Je autorom mnohých kníh,
of many books, among them medzi inými ako:
   
0:36 The Awakening of Intelligence, Zobudenie inteligencie,
The Urgency of Change, Naliehavos zmeny,
   
0:40 Freedom From the Known Oslobodenie sa od poznaného
and The Flight of the Eagle. a Let orla.
   
0:45 In dialogue with Krishnamurti V rozhovore s Krishnamurtim
is the Rev. Eugene J. Schallert je Rev. Eugene J. Schallert
   
0:49 of the Society of Jesuits, Spoloènosti jezuitov,
the Director of the Center riadite¾ Centra
   
0:53 for Sociological Research at pre sociologický výskum na
the University of San Francisco Universite v San Franciscu
   
0:56 where Father Schallert is an kde je otec Schallert
Associate Professor of Sociology. Docentom sociológie.
   
1:01 S: In order to achieve this seeing S: Aby sme dosiahli to videnie
that we have been discussing, o ktorom sme diskutovali,
   
1:06 one must arrive at a state èlovek sa musí dosta do stavu
in which he is attentive v ktorom je pozorný
   
1:13 and freely or choicelessly attentive a slobodne alebo bezvýhrade pozorný
to the other k druhému.
   
1:20 – perhaps we could use: he can give Možno by sme mohli poveda , že
his undivided attention to the other. môže venova
   
1:22   svoju úplnú pozornos druhému.
   
1:25 K: Yes, yes. K: Áno, áno.
   
1:26 S: And before we take the next step, S: A predtým, ako sa pohneme ïalej,
could I say that we are really  
   
1:28   mohol by som poveda ,
  že v skutoènosti
   
1:31 not looking for an answer neh¾adáme odpoveï na otázku:
to the question 'what is seeing?'. "Èo je to videnie?"
   
1:35 Are we not looking Neh¾adáme videnie v sebe,
for seeing itself  
   
1:38 which is really not an answer? èo v skutoènosti
  nie je odpoveï.
   
1:41 K: Is there an answer, sir, K: Existuje odpoveï, pane,
   
1:46 when there is real perception kde je skutoèné vnímanie
– actually what is – - skutoènosti toho èo je -
   
1:50 is there an answer? je to odpoveï?
   
1:52 S: Perception is not an answer. S: Vnímanie nie je odpoveï.
   
1:54 I must insist with you that Musím trva na tom, že
perception is not an answer. vnímanie nie je odpoveï.
   
1:59 K: But... K: Ale...
there is perception of what is: existuje vnímanie toho, èo je:
   
2:06 what is in the world, what is in me èo je vo svete, èo je vo mne.
– I am the world and the world is me. Ja som svet a svet som ja.
   
2:10 That perception, not a conceptual To vímanie, nie nejaká koncepcia,
perception but actual perception, ale skutoèné vnímanie,
   
2:17 the world is me svet je ja
and I am the world. a ja som svet.
   
2:22 There's no division between me Neexistuje rozdelenie medzi
and the world. I am the world. mnou a svetom. Ja som svet.
   
2:26 There is perception. To je vnímanie.
   
2:31 What takes place in that perception? Èo sa deje keï vnímam?
That's what you're asking, sir? To je to, èo sa pýtate pane?
   
2:37 S: I'm asking, yes, S: Pýtam sa, áno, èo sa deje
what takes place in that perception. v takom vnímaní?
   
2:41 It's difficult for us to use Je pre nás ažké používa slová
a word because, in a sense pretože, v istom zmysle
   
2:46 for so long we have taken each tak dlho sme brali seba, naše duality,
other, our dualities, our world, náš svet,
   
2:52 as a given, taken it for granted, ako daný, berieme ho
and because of this predisposition ako samozrejmos ,
   
2:55   a kvôli tejto predispozícii
   
2:58 to take things for granted, bra veci ako samozrejmos , myslím
I think we have, in a sense si, že je pre nás, v tomto zmysle
   
3:01 made it impossible or difficult nemožné alebo ažké
for us to simply perceive. jednoducho vníma .
   
3:06 But once we can control this Ale akonáhle môžeme toto kontrolova
and say we are really interested in a poveda , že sa naozaj zaujímame
   
3:11 is the simple perception that precedes je jednoduché vnímanie,
all rational, logical knowledge, ktoré predchádza
   
3:15   všetky racionálne, logické vedomosti,
   
3:18 all of our biases and prejudices, and všetky naše sklony a predsudky,
from which these biases do not come. z ktorých tieto predsudky nevznikajú.
   
3:25 Then we are ready to ask… Vtedy sme pripravení sa pýta ...
K: Or rather, wouldn't we put it K: Alebo by sme radšej povedali:
   
3:28 there is no perception vnímanie nie je tam,
if there's a bias. kde sú predsudky.
   
3:30 S: No perception if there's a bias. S: Vnímanie neexistuje, ak máme
  predsudky.
   
3:33 A bias is that which precisely Predsudok je to, èo robí
makes perception impossible. vnímanie nemožným.
   
3:37 It's when I do not want Je to vtedy, keï vás nechcem
to perceive you... vníma ...
   
3:39 K: Of course, I build a barrier. K: Samozrejme, vybudoval som
S: I build a barrier. si bariéru.
   
3:41   S: Vybudoval som si bariéru.
   
3:42 K: Whether the barrier of K: Èi už je to bariéra
religion, barrier of politics, náboženstva, bariéra politiky,
   
3:45 barrier of whatever it is. bariéra hocièoho.
   
3:48 S: Now, if it is true that S: Teda ak je to pravda, že
in the pursuit of seeing you… v snahe vidie vás...
   
3:57 in the pursuit of v snahe vníma vás,
the perception of you,  
   
4:01 what is needed within me to èo je vo mne,
is not me. nie som ja.
   
4:05 K: Yes, that's right. K: Áno, to je pravda.
   
4:07 S: And what is needed within you S: A èo je potrebné vo vás,
is not you. nie ste vy.
   
4:10 Then when we speak of Potom, keï hovoríme o takých
such things as perception, veciach, ako je vnímanie,
   
4:15 are we not in some way or another nehovoríme nejako
speaking of oneness or truth? o jednote, alebo pravde?
   
4:18 K: I would not come to that yet. K: Ešte by som o tom nehovoril.
To me, it seems Pre mòa to znamená
   
4:25 seeing the world is me and že videnie sveta som ja
I am the world – or I am you and… a ja som svet - alebo som ja a ...
   
4:34 I mean, seeing, psychologically, Myslím, vidie , psychologicky,
whether I'm a Hindu, Buddhist, èi už som hinduista, budhista,
   
4:40 Christian, we are the same – kres an, sme rovnakí -
psychologically, inwardly, psychologicky, vnútorne
   
4:43 we are all in the state of confusion, sme všetci v stave zmätku,
battle, misery, sorrow, bitvy, utrpenia, smútku,
   
4:47 with appalling sense of s desivým pocitom
loneliness, despair. osamelosti, zúfalstva.
   
4:52 That's the common ground Je to spoloèná èrta
of all humanity. celého ¾udstva.
   
5:00 There is that perception. To je to vnímanie.
   
5:02 Now, what takes place Teda, èo sa deje,
when there is that perception? keï je tu to vnímanie?
   
5:06 S: That is what we're trying S: To je to, èo sa snažíme
to pursue and to explain – sledova a vysvetli -
   
5:09 without explaining it. bez vysvet¾ovania.
   
5:11 K: We're going K: Ideme
to share together in this. to zdie¾a spoloène.
   
5:19 There is perception of sorrow. Vnímame smútok.
Let's take that. Zoberme si ten.
   
5:29 My son, my brother, Môj syn, môj brat,
my father dies. môj otec zomrie.
   
5:36 What takes place, generally, is: Èo sa väèšinou deje, je:
I escape from it Chcem z toho uniknú ,
   
5:43 because I can't face pretože nevládzem èeli tomu
this sense of tremendous pocitu nesmierneho
   
5:46 danger of loneliness, of despair. nebezpeèia samoty, alebo zúfalstva.
So I escape Takže uniknem.
   
5:54 – escape in ideology, K nejakej ideológii, konceptu,
in concepts, in a dozen ways. rôznymi spôsobmi.
   
5:59 Now, to perceive the escape Teraz, aby som vnímal ten únik,
   
6:05 just to perceive, len vnímal, nie kontroloval ho,
not check it, not control it,  
   
6:08 not say, 'I mustn't perceive', nehovoril: "Nesmiem to vníma ",
just to be aware, choicelessly again, len si
   
6:11   ho uvedomova , znova bezvýhradne,
   
6:14 aware that you're escaping. uvedomova si, že unikáte.
Then the escape stops. Potom ten únik prestane.
   
6:23 The momentum of escape Pohyb úniku
is a wastage of energy. je strata energie.
   
6:28 You've stopped that energy Zastavili ste tú energiu
– not you have stopped – - nie že vy ste ju zastavili -
   
6:32 perception has ended the wastage, vnímanie ukonèilo to mrhanie,
therefore you have more energy, preto máte viacej energie,
   
6:36 there is more energy. je tam viac energie.
   
6:40 Then, Potom, keï neexistuje únik,
when there's no escape,  
   
6:46 you're faced with the fact èelíte faktu ktorý je.
of what is.  
   
6:49 That is: Èo je, že ste niekoho stratili.
you have lost somebody!  
   
6:54 Death, loneliness, despair. Smr , samota, zúfalstvo.
That is exactly what is. To je to, èo je.
   
6:59 There, again, Potom , znova, vnímanie
a perception of what is. toho, èo je.
   
7:04 S: I think I see S: Myslím, že chápem smer,
the direction you are taking. ktorým sa uberáte.
   
7:06 What you want to say is that To, èo chcete poveda je, že
when I perceive that you are sorrowful keï vidím, že ste smutný,
   
7:14 – I don't perceive sorrow, - nevnímam boles ,
it doesn't exist by itself – neexistuje sama o sebe -
   
7:17 so when I perceive that you are takže keï vidím, že ste
sorrowful, what I perceive is smutný, èo vidím, je
   
7:21 that you have been separated, že ste sa oddelil,
and this is a source of sorrow a to je zdrojom smútku
   
7:28 because now your father pretože teraz je váš otec
is dead and you are separated. màtvy a ste od seba oddelený.
   
7:31 And in perceiving that sorrow A vnímanie toho smútku
is associated with separation… je spojené s oddelením ...
   
7:37 K: Not quite, sir. K: Nie celkom tak, pane.
S: Or am I not S: Alebo
   
7:39 perceiving that joy nevnímam tú rados
is associated with… spojenú s...
   
7:42 K: No, sir, not yet, no. K: Nie pane, ešte nie, nie.
The fact is I have lost somebody. Faktom je, že som niekoho stratil.
   
7:46 That's a fact – burned, gone. To je fakt - spálený, preè.
   
7:50 And it is something gone finally! A je to nieèo, èo je preè naveky!
You can't...  
   
7:55 And I feel tremendously lonely A cítim sa nesmierne sám
– that's a fact – - to je fakt -
   
8:02 lonely, without any sense sám, bez nejakého pocitu
of relationship vz ahu,
   
8:07 without a sense of bez pocitu
any security. bezpeèia.
   
8:12 I'm completely at the end. Som úplne v koncoch.
   
8:18 S: Many people speak of this S: Mnohí ¾udia hovoria o tom a
as saying, 'I am empty now.' vravia: Teraz som úplne prázdny.
   
8:24 K: Yes, empty. And there is an K: Áno, prázdny. A je tam
awareness of this emptiness uvedomovanie si tejto prázdnoty
   
8:30 of this loneliness, tejto samoty,
of this despair. tohto zúfalstva.
   
8:33 I say when you don't escape A ja hovorím, že keï neuteèiete,
you conserve the energy. držíte si energiu.
   
8:39 Now there is this conservation Teraz je tam zachovanie
of energy when I'm facing energie, keï èelím
   
8:44 the fear of my loneliness. strachu zo samoty.
   
8:49 I meet it. Chápem.
You're aware of it. Uvedomujete si to.
   
8:56 There is an awareness of Je tam uvedomovanie si
this fear of loneliness. tohto strachu zo samoty.
   
9:01 S: But now, how can you give S: Ale, ako môžete venova
your undivided attention vašu plnú pozornos
   
9:07 to someone whom you have lost, niekomu, koho ste stratili,
simply and finally? jednoducho a naveky?
   
9:13 K: I've lost him finally, K: Stratil som ho naveky,
but now we're examining ale teraz skúmame
   
9:17 the state of the mind stav mysle, ktorá utrpela stratu.
that has lost.  
   
9:22 S: Yes, we're trying S: Áno, snažíme sa porozumie ...
to understand…  
   
9:25 K: …the mind that says, K:...myse¾, ktorá hovorí:
'I've lost everything. Stratil som všetko!
   
9:28 I'm really Som naozaj
in desperate sorrow.' zúfalo smutný. "
   
9:32 Right? And there is fear. Práve! A to je strach.
   
9:38 See that fear, Pozrite sa na strach,
   
9:41 don't run away, don't escape, neutekajte od neho, neunikajte,
don't try to smother it nesnažte sa ho potlaèi ,
   
9:44 by courage and all the rest pozbierajte všetku odvahu
of it – see that fear a pozrite sa na strach.
   
9:48 be choicelessly aware Bezvýhradne si ten strach uvedomujte.
of that fear.  
   
9:52 In that awareness fear disappears. V tom uvedomovaní strach zmizne.
It does disappear! Naozaj zmizne!
   
9:58 Then Potom, teraz máte viac energie.
you have now greater energy.  
   
10:03 S: Yes, and we have all experienced S: Áno, všetci sme zažili,
that, how seeing fear disarms fear. že vidie strach odzbrojuje strach.
   
10:10 K: Next, what is there? K: Ïalej, èo sa tam deje?
Why is there sorrow? Preèo je tam smútok?
   
10:16 What is sorrow? Èo je to smútok?
   
10:18 Self-pity? Seba¾utovanie?
   
10:20 S: When it's associated S: Keï sa spojí
with anxiety or fear s úzkos ou alebo strachom,
   
10:23 then we will have potom to budeme musie nazva
to call it self-pity. seba¾útos .
   
10:26 K: Self-pity. K: Seba¾útos .
What does that mean, self-pity? Èo seba¾útos znamená?
   
10:30 You see that means: Vidíte, znamená to:
   
10:31 me is more important Ja som dôležitejší, ako
than the person who is dead. osoba, ktorá zomrela.
   
10:35 S: And so you didn't give your S: A tak nevenovali svoju
undivided attention to that person. plnú pozornos tejto osobe.
   
10:38 K: I never loved that man! K: Nikdy som nemilovala
My child, I never loved that child. toho muža!
   
10:40   Moje die a, nikdy som
  nemiloval to die a.
   
10:42 I never loved my wife Nikdy som nemiloval moju ženu,
or husband, sister. alebo muža, sestru.
   
10:49 In this state of awareness V tomto stave uvedomovania si
there is the discovery je objav,
   
10:54 that love never existed. že láska nikdy neexistovala.
   
10:59 S: Or, in the discovery of S: Alebo v objave
   
11:03 of a sorrow which is associated smútku, ktorý som spojil
with grief so žia¾om
   
11:07 or with separation or with fear, alebo oddelením alebo strachom,
there is the discovery je aj objav
   
11:11 that love has been horribly že láska je hrozne obmedzená,
limited, if it existed at all. ak vôbec nejaká existovala.
   
11:14 K: I didn't have it! K: Nemal som ju!
I couldn't have it! Nemohol som ju ma !
   
11:16 Love means Láska znamená nieèo úplne iné.
something entirely different.  
   
11:20 So, now there is tremendous energy Tak, teraz tu panuje obrovská energia
– you follow, sir? – no escape, - sledujete, pane? - žiadny únik,
   
11:26 no fear, no sense of self-pity, žiadny strach, žiadna seba¾útos ,
concern about myself, my anxiety... strach o seba, moja úzkos ...
   
11:35 Out of this sense of sorrow Z tohto pocitu smútku
there is this bubbling energy je táto bublajúca energia
   
11:44 which is really love. èo je naozaj láska.
   
11:48 S: Which is really love. S: Èo je ozajstná láska.
So now we have discovered that Takže teraz sme zistili, že
   
11:52 when one gives his keï èlovek venuje
undivided attention to another… pozornos druhému...
   
11:56 K: No! I have not given my attention K: Nie! Nie, nevenoval som pozornos
to the person who is dead, osobe ktorá je màtva.
   
12:01 my father, my son, my brother. môjmu otcovi, synovi, bratovi.
   
12:03 There has been attention Bola to pozornos venovaná
to the state of my mind stavu mojej mysle,
   
12:06 the mind which says, mysle ktorá vraví:
'I suffer' ! Trpím!
   
12:12 S: Yes, but we have been trying to S: Áno, ale my sa pokúšame zisti ,
examine what 'I suffer' means èo znamená "utrpenie"
   
12:18 in the context of what v kontexte s tým, èo to znamená
choiceless attention means. "bezvýhradná pozornos ".
   
12:22 K: Yes. So I find K: Áno. Takže zis ujem, že láska
love is... a total attention. znamená...bezvýhradnú pozornos .
   
12:32 S: Love is a total attention. S: Láska je úplná pozornos .
   
12:34 K: Without any division. K: Bez akéhoko¾vek rozdelenia.
   
12:38 I think this is really Myslím si, že toto je naozaj
important because dôležité, pretože
   
12:40 you see, sir, for us, love is vidíte, pane, pre nás je láska
pleasure – sexual, other ways – potešenie - sexuálne, iné -
   
12:48 love is pleasure, and love is fear, láska je potešenie, a láska je strach,
love is jealousy, láska je žiarlivos ,
   
12:52 love is possessiveness, domination, láska je vlastníctvo, nadvláda,
aggression – you follow? agresia - sledujete?
   
12:56 We use that word Používame toto slovo, na
to cover up all this: toto všetko:
   
12:59 love of God, love of man, láska k Bohu, láska k mužovi,
love of country, and so on. láska k zemi, atï.
   
13:05 All that is the love of To všetko je láska mojich
my concern about myself. obáv o mòa samého.
   
13:14 S: Yes, all of that is self-love. S: Áno, to všetko je sebeláska.
K: Obviously. K. Oèividne.
   
13:16 S: But it's the me that is being loved S: Ale to som ja, ktorý je milovaný
not the self that is being loved. nie moje "ja", ktoré je milované.
   
13:20 K: That's no love. K: To nie je láska.
That's a tremendous discovery. To je ohromný objav.
   
13:25 That requires great honesty Vyžaduje to ve¾kú úprimnos
to say, poveda :
   
13:30 'By Jove, I've never really "Jove, nikdy som
loved anybody.' nikoho nemilovala. "
   
13:33 I pretended, I've exploited, I have Predstierala som, zneužívala som,
adjusted myself to somebody prispôsobila som sa niekomu,
   
13:41 but the fact that I've never ale faktom je, že som nikdy
known what it means to love. nepoznala, èo je to láska.
   
13:46 That's a tremendous honesty, To je nesmierna poctivos , pane,
sir,  
   
13:51 to say that I thought I loved poveda , že som si myslel, že milujem,
and I never found it. a nikdy som to nenašiel.
   
13:56 Now I've come upon something Teraz sa dostávam k nieèomu,
which is real! èo je skutoèné!
   
14:00 Which is, I've watched what is Èo je: Pozoroval som to èo je,
and moved from there. a pohol som sa ïalej.
   
14:05 There is an awareness of what is Je v tom vedomie toho èo je,
and that awareness moves a to vedomie sa pohybuje
   
14:10 – it is a living thing – - je to žijúca vec -
it doesn't come to a conclusion. nekonèí to.
   
14:17 S: Now why is it that in our attempt S: A preèo je to tak, že v našej snahe
to pursue the question of skúma túto otázku
   
14:26 undivided attention, or choiceless sústredenú pozornos , alebo pozornos
attention, or simple seeing bez výberu, alebo jednoducho vidie
   
14:31 that we very naturally že sme ve¾mi jednoducho
slipped into the question vk¾zli do otázky
   
14:36 and it's not really logical, a naozaj to nie je logické,
it's very naturally je to ve¾mi prirodzené,
   
14:39 slipped into the question of skåzli do otázky jednoducho
simple loving, as opposed to milova , naproti
   
14:44 fictitious or fraudulent fiktívnej alebo podvodnej
loving or conditioned loving. láske alebo podmienenej láske.
   
14:48 There must be something about the Musí by nieèo na tom
loving and the seeing process procese milova a vidie
   
14:53 which is so similar that we ktorý je taký podobný, že
can slip from seeing to loving môžeme skåznu od videnia k láske
   
15:00 and really be discussing the a v skutoènosti diskutova o tej
same thing. And as we move  
   
15:03   istej veci. A keï ideme
  dobrým smerom,
   
15:06 well, move is not a good word pohyb nie je to správe slovo.
K: No, I understand, sir. K: Nie, rozumiem pane.
   
15:09 S: as we become aware of… S: Ako si uvedomujeme...
as we develop ako vyvýjame
   
15:14 this undivided attention, túto bezhraniènú pozornos ,
this choiceless awareness… túto vo¾bu bez výberu...
   
15:17 K: If I may suggest, don't use K: Ak môžem navrhnú , nepoužívajte
the word – I humbly suggest – slovo - skromne navrhujem -
   
15:22 'develop'. That means time. "vyvíjame". To znamená èas.
Sir, be aware! Pane, "uvedomujeme si!"
   
15:27 S: Be aware. We are struggling S: Uvedomujeme si. Bojujeme
with words, because… so slovami, pretože ...
   
15:30 K: Be aware of the carpet K: Uvedomujete si koberec,
– the colour, the shape, the form, farbu, tvar, formu,
   
15:35 be aware of that. Don't say, uvedomujete si to. Nehovorte:
'I like, don't like, this is good' Páèi sa mi, nepáèi sa mi, to je dobré!
   
15:40 just be aware of it, Len si to uvedomujte,
and then, from that, a potom, z toho,
   
15:43 grows the flame of awareness, vzniká plameò uvedomovania si,
if one can so call it. ak to tak môžem poveda .
   
15:51 S: Haven't you said the same thing S: Nehovorili ste to isté, inými
in different words slovami,
   
15:54 by saying, 'Be aware of the other, keï ste hovorili: "Vnímajte druhých,
of the carpet, of the tree, koberec, strom,
   
16:00 of the universe vesmír, v ktorom
within which you live?' žijete?"
   
16:05 And then you translate into A potom to prenesiete
another level of perception do iného levelu vnímania
   
16:10 and you say, 'Love the carpet, a hovoríte: Milujte koberec,
love the tree, love the universe.' milujte strom, milujte vesmír.
   
16:15 And you don't feel that there's A necítite že je rozdiel medzi
a difference between being aware tým, keï vnímate
   
16:18 or seeing undividedly and loving alebo vidíte a keï milujete
undividedly or unconditionally. bez rozdielu, nepodmienene?
   
16:23 K: No, sir, when you are so aware, K: Nie, pane, keï si uvedomujete,
there is that quality of love. tam je taká kvalita lásky.
   
16:26 You don't have to say Nepotrebujete hovori
'be or not be' – it is there. by , èi neby - je to tam!
   
16:29 It is like a perfume Ja to ako vôòa kvetu
in a flower – it is there! - je tam!
   
16:33 S: The two are… they're not S: Tie dve sú...neexistujú dve
different sides of the same coin. strany jednej mince.
   
16:36 They're the same coin. Je to tá istá minca.
K: It is the same thing, same coin. K: Je to tá istá vec. Tá istá minca.
   
16:39 S: With no sides at all. Yes. So that S: Bez akýchko¾vek strán.
then to see in this undivided way, Áno. Takže
   
16:42   potom vidíte týmto
  nedelite¾ným spôsobom,
   
16:46 choiceless way, and to spôsobom bez výberu, a milova
love in this choiceless way týmto spôsobom bez výberu
   
16:50 must be one and musí by jedna a tá istá
the same thing. vec.
   
16:52 K: It is, sir, K: Je pane, ale problémom je,
but the difficulty is  
   
16:55 we are so eager že tak túžime po tejto veci,
to get this thing  
   
17:00 that we lose the real thread of it, že strácame pravú ni ,
the beauty of it. jej krásu.
   
17:06 S: Now suppose that we were to move S: Predstavme si, že posunieme
our discussion one more step našu diskusiu ešte o jeden krok,
   
17:10 or maybe another step because alebo možno o ïalší krok, pretože
there's not more, and say that viac ich nie je, a povedzme, že
   
17:16 as far as we can perceive, pokia¾ vnímame,
to be aware and to love uvedomujeme si a milujeme
   
17:23 are one and the same thing. to je jedna a tá istá vec.
   
17:26 Could we move Mohli by sme sa pohnú o krok
one step further and say a poveda ,
   
17:30 to be is the same existova je to isté ako
as to see and to love? vidie a milova ?
   
17:33 K: No, what do you mean by, K: Nie! Èo myslíte tým,
if I may ask, the word 'to be'? ak sa smiem pýta , slovom "by "?
   
17:38 Everybody says, 'I am.' The whole Každý hovorí: "Ja som." Celá
young generation at present says mladá generácia v súèasnosti hovorí
   
17:43 'I want to be'. 'Chcem by '.
What does that mean? Èo to znamená?
   
17:46 S: I'm sure it means very little. S: Som si istý,
  že to znamená ve¾mi málo.
   
17:48 I think it means be active Myslím si, že to znamená by aktívny
or be possessive. alebo by vlastnícky.
   
17:52 K: Yes, be possessive, K: Áno. By vlastnícky,
be angry, be violent. zlostný, by násilný.
   
17:53 I am – that is what I am. Som - to je to, èo som.
   
17:56 S: So then the word 'to be' has a S: Takže slovo "by "má
connotation about it, associated nejakú spojitos , spája sa
   
17:59 with activity, which can only s aktivitou, ktorá môže vznika
follow from this inner energy z tejto energie
   
18:03 which is what to be means. èo slovo "by ", znamená.
   
18:05 K: So, sir, all this K: Takže pane, toto všetko nás
brings us to a question: vedie k otázke:
   
18:09 whether man can change at all. èi sa èlovek vôbec môže zmeni ?
That is the fundamental… To je podstatné...
   
18:16 It seems to me that's one of the Zdá sa mi, že je to jedna
major questions in the present world. z najpodstatnejších
   
18:20   otázok v súèasnom svete.
   
18:24 The structure and the nature Štruktúra a povaha
of human beings have to change. ¾udských bytostí sa musí zmeni .
   
18:30 S: Well, when you use words S: Teda, keï používate slová
like 'structure' and 'nature' ako "štruktúra" a "povaha"
   
18:34 those mean categories to me. pre mòa to znamená kategórie.
K: No, the way he lives. K: Nie, spôsob akým žije.
   
18:37 S: Can man's lifestyle change? S: Dá sa zmeni životný štýl èloveka?
   
18:39 K: Yes. The way he lives, K: Áno. Spôsob, akým žijem,
the appalling pettiness, the ugliness desivé banality, škaredos ,
   
18:44 the violence, you know, násilie, viete,
what is going on. to èo sa deje.
   
18:48 S: I would say that there should be S: Povedal by som, že by nemalo
nothing but despair by niè, len zúfalstvo
   
18:51 relative to the question of change, èo sa týka zmeny,
   
18:54 if the change we're dealing with ak tá zmena, ktorou sa zaoberáme,
  by
   
18:57 was the creation of new categories bolo vytvorenie nových kategórií
to replace old categories. namiesto starých.
   
19:01 K: No, no, I don't mean that. K: Nie, nie. Nemyslím to!
   
19:03 S: If on the other hand we were S: Ak by sme sa, na druhej strane,
dealing with the question of zaoberali otázkou
   
19:05 changing from the without meni sa z vonka
to the within – can men do this? – do vnútra - môžu to ¾udia urobi ? -
   
19:09 from the 'to do' to the 'to be', z "robi " na "by "
from the pretence of love to love, z predstierania lásky k láske,
   
19:15 from the perception of categories z vnímania kategórií
to seeing, na videnie,
   
19:18 can men change môže sa èlovek zmeni
in that direction? týmto spôsobom?
   
19:20 I would have to ask Musel by som sa spýta
– do men? - robia to ¾udia?
   
19:21 And they do! You have done it. A robia to! Vy ste to spravili.
I have done it. Ja som to spravil.
   
19:25 K: Sir, I mean… K: Pane, myslím si...
   
19:27 S: Will men do it? S: Urobia to ¾udia?
   
19:30 K: Because man has lived K: Pretože èlovek žije,
as he has lived, ako žije,
   
19:33 with such appalling brutality, s takou otrasnou brutalitou,
such a deception, takým klamstvom,
   
19:39 such lies, hypocrisy takými lžami, pokrytectvom,
and all the rest of it. a tým všetkým.
   
19:46 If I have a son, a brother, Ak mám syna, brata,
   
19:50 that's my concern, starám sa,
my responsibility. cítim zodpovednos .
   
19:54 Not to change him Nebudem ho meni , ale vidie
but to see what it is. ho takého, aký je.
   
20:02 I don't want him to imitate me Nechcem, aby ma napodobòoval
or conform to my pattern alebo aby sa mi prispôsoboval,
   
20:05 which is absurd, or my belief èo je absurdné, alebo mojej viere.
– I have none of that. Niè z toho!
   
20:09 So I say, 'Look, how is it possible Takže hovorím: Pozrime sa, ako je možné
for a human being to change?' zmeni ¾udskú bytos .
   
20:17 Change not into Nemeni na
a particular pattern, nejaký vzor.
   
20:20 to bring about a total Ale prinies nejakú
psychological revolution. totálnu psychologickú zmenu.
   
20:26 S: If I were to start some place, S: Ak by sme zaèínali na nejakom
Krishnaji, I believe I would mieste Krishnaji, verím, že by som
   
20:29 start with you. Not because zaèal s vami. Nie preto, že si myslím,
I think you need changing že potrebujete zmenu,
   
20:34 because I don't, nor because lebo si to nemyslím, ani preto, že
I think you would want to change  
   
20:37   si nemyslím, že by ste sa
  chceli zmeni
   
20:39 but because I think you want ale pretože si myslím, že chcete uèi ,
to teach, you want to share. chcete to zdie¾a .
   
20:44 You have received so much joy Získali ste už to¾ko radosti
from understanding z pochopenia
   
20:47 and from loving that a z lásky, že to z vás vyžaruje.
this radiates from within you.  
   
20:52 Now, if you wanted to teach Teraz, ak by ste chceli niekoho uèi ,
someone that there's more  
   
20:57 to be seen than is seen že sa dá vidie ako to, èo vidíme
– and the more is not quantitative - a to viacej nie je v kvantite
   
21:02 but in depth – maybe I would want ale v håbke - možno by som chcel,
to change you in this direction aby ste rozmýš¾ali týmto smerom,
   
21:10 that when you speak of the world keï hovoríte o svete
and its conflict and its tensions, a jeho konflikte a napätí,
   
21:15 and its violence, and its hypocrisy, a jeho násilí a pokrytectve,
that you may also že si môžete tiež
   
21:20 address yourself to another question položi druhú otázku,
   
21:23 – which I'm sure you have done - èo si myslím, že ste aj urobili,
but don't speak of it – ale nehovoríte o tom -
   
21:27 not only the endurance of nielen trvanie veèného
inner conflict or exterior conflict vnútorného konfliktu
   
21:30   alebo vonkajšieho konfliktu,
   
21:34 but the endurance of ale aj trvanie vnútornej radosti
inner joy and exterior joy. a vonkajšej radosti.
   
21:38 K: Sir, now wait a minute. K: Pane, poèkajte trošku.
   
21:40 S: These are always there when you S: Sú vždy tam, keï
talk but they are not expressed. hovoríte, ale neukazujete ich.
   
21:43 K: When does joy come? K: Kedy prichádza rados ?
   
21:47 When I don't seek it. Keï ju neh¾adám.
I mean, it happens! Myslím tým, stáva sa to.
   
21:54 I don't have to cultivate it, Nemusím sa o òu stara , myse¾
the mind hasn't to pursue it. sa za òou nemusí naháòa .
   
22:02 S: Yes, the mind cannot S: Áno. Myse¾ sa nevie
pursue joy. naháòa za rados ou.
   
22:06 K: Therefore I have to understand… K: Preto musím pochopi ...
an understanding must take place musí nasta pochopenie
   
22:15 of what is pleasure and what toho, èo je potešenie
is joy. That's where we mix… a èo je rados . To si pletieme...
   
22:21 S: We mix our levels, yes. S: Pletieme si pojmy, áno.
   
22:24 K: To understand joy is more important K: Pochopi rados je ove¾a dôležitejšie
than to understand pleasure ako pochopi potešenie.
   
22:30 sorry – to understand pleasure Prepáète - pochopi potešenie
is far more important je ove¾a dôležitejšie
   
22:34 than to understand joy. než pochopi rados .
   
22:36 Because we want pleasure, Pretože chceme potešenie,
we pursue pleasure. naháòame sa za potešením.
   
22:42 Everything is our pleasure Všetko je naše potešenie
– the whole moral - celá morálna
   
22:47 social structure is based sociálna štruktúra sa zakladá
on this enormous pleasure. na tomto enormnom potešení.
   
22:54 And pleasure does breed fear, A potešenie plodí strach,
insecurity, and all the rest of it. neistotu a celý ten zbytok.
   
22:59 Now, in the understanding of Teraz, po pochopení potešenia
pleasure, the other thing comes. prichádza ïalšia vec.
   
23:03 You don't have to talk about it. The Nemusíte o tom hovori . Tá vec
other thing flows, like a fountain. teèie ako fontána.
   
23:08 You don't even call it joy, Ani jej nehovoríte rados ,
it's ecstasy, something… je to extáza, nieèo ...
   
23:14 S: Are you saying then that S: Hovoríte, že
in the pursuit of fear v snahe uniknú strachu
   
23:18 through escape, cez únik,
or in the pursuit of… alebo v naháòaní sa za...
   
23:22 K: …joy, I mean pleasure. K: ...rados ou, myslím potešením.
   
23:24 S: Or in the pursuit of pleasure S: Alebo v naháòaní sa za rozkošou
– in both pursuits we find death - v oboch prípadoch nájdeme smr
   
23:29 and also a death to the a taktiež smr
dissipation of energy v rozptýlení energie
   
23:32 that keeps us from being joyous. ktoré nám bránia by radostný.
K: That's right, that's right. K: To je pravda, to je pravda.
   
23:35 S: And from being joyous, and seeing, S: A od toho by radostný, vidie
and being loving, or simply being by milujúci, alebo jednoducho by ,
   
23:40 it's all the same thing. je to to isté.
   
23:44 K: You see, through negation K: Vidíte. Cez negáciu k pozitívnemu.
the positive is.  
   
23:50 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
23:51 K: Not the positive. Assert the K: Nie pozitívnemu...presadzovaním
positive is to negate the real. pozitívneho je negova realitu.
   
24:00 S: But as we have said before S: Ale ako sme už povedali predtým,
   
24:02 to negate the categories negova kategórie v skutoènosti
is really not nie je
   
24:07 what we are dealing with, to, s èím bojujme,
nor are we dealing with nie s èím sa zaoberáme,
   
24:10 the negation of seeing simply. negáciou vidie jednoducho.
We're dealing with Bojujeme s
   
24:14 the negation of all of those negovaním všetkých tých prekážok,
obstacles, like pleasure, to joy. od potešenia k radosti.
   
24:19 Because unless you negate Pretože pokia¾ nenegujete potešenie,
pleasure you will never be joyous. nikdy nebudete radostný.
   
24:22 And when you're joyous A keï ste radostný,
you're also quite pleasurable. ste tiež celkom príjemný.
   
24:24 K: You don't talk about it. K: Nehovorte o tom.
The moment you're conscious V okamihu, keï si to uvedomíte,
   
24:27 that you're joyous, it goes. že ste veselý, je to preè.
   
24:30 Like being happy, and Ako keï ste š astný a hovoríte:
you say, 'How happy I am!' Aký som s astný!
   
24:34 It becomes nonsense Je to nezmysel, keï hovoríte:
when you say, 'How happy I am!' "Aký som š astný!"
   
24:38 S: Yes, because now S: Áno, pretože teraz
you've rationalized it ste si to zracionalizovali,
   
24:40 and put it in a category, a dali do kategórie,
now it becomes something teraz sa to stáva nieèím,
   
24:42 to speculate about nad èím môžete špekulova ,
rather than do, to be. viacej než tým by .
   
24:45 At the same time, since we are V rovnakom èase, pretože to
pursuing as deeply as we can… sledujeme tak podrobne, ako vieme ...
   
24:54 pursuing seeing and sledujúc videnie a
understanding and loving pochopenie a milovanie
   
24:58 or this undivided attention, alebo túto sústredenú pozornos ,
since we're pursuing that pretože to sledujeme,
   
25:01 and we found that a my sme zistili, že to
one cannot pursue it nemožno sledova
   
25:04 except by negating fear s výnimkou negácie strachu
or negating pleasure… alebo negovaním potešenia ...
   
25:07 K: Yes, sir. Understanding K: Áno, pane. Pochopi
pleasure potešenie,
   
25:10 understanding the pochopi
whole nature of pleasure. celá podstatu potešenia.
   
25:13 S: Then we must ask ourselves, S: Tak sa musíme pýta sami seba,
if these are not the avenues èi toto nie sú cesty
   
25:17 to seeing or loving or being – na to, ako vidie , alebo milova
and I suppose we will ultimately alebo by -
   
25:20   a myslím, že nakoniec
   
25:23 get to the question sa dostaneme k otázke
of being, or being one, bytia, alebo bytia ako jeden,
   
25:27 we may get to that question môžeme sa dosta k tejto otázke
because we want to discover that pretože chceme zisti èi
   
25:32 you are one with the world ste v jednote so svetom ,
and the world is one with you a svet je v jednote s vami,
   
25:36 and you are one with myself a ja som jedno sám so sebou
and I am one with you: a ja som jedno s vami.
   
25:39 we want to discover that. To chceme objavi .
And we've seen A videli sme,
   
25:41 that seeing must take place, že to videnie sa musí udia ,
and loving must take place, a že musí nasta láska,
   
25:46 an awareness of being must take place uvedomovanie si seba musí nasta
– we've seen what to do - videli sme, èo robi
   
25:49 to get rid of ako sa zbavi toho, èo sa nám
what gets in the way stavia do cesty,
   
25:52 of the most exhilarating of all najpovznášajucejšie zo všetkých
experiences or realities, zážitkov a skutoèností,
   
25:56 the reality of just being realita len bytia
– I am, enough. - Ja som, staèí.
   
25:59 I don't need these things to be Nepotrebujem tie veci na to,
– here I am. aby som bol - Som!
   
26:03 Then what would you think Èo si myslíte, že sa potom stane?
would be the next step  
   
26:05 – and we're not talking - a teraz nehovoríme o
about process or method now – procese alebo metóde -
   
26:09 what would you perceive èo si myslíte, že bude nasledova ?
would be the next step?  
   
26:11 K: Next step of what? K: Ïalší krok èoho?
S: In the development… S: Vo vývoji...
   
26:15 K: From what? K: Z èoho?
   
26:17 S: From this undivided attention S: Z tejto plnej pozornosti
that we discussed earlier o ktorej sme hovorili predtým
   
26:20 and from this loving which we a z tejto lásky, o ktorej sme
found to be the same as attention zistili, že je rovnaká ako pozornos ,
   
26:25 choiceless attention, and bezvýhradná pozornos , a
from this being which we found z tohto bytia, ktoré sme zistili, že
   
26:29 to be the same as loving je rovnaké ako láska, videnie
and seeing or understanding a pochopenie
   
26:35 and now we're a teraz sa snažíme
trying to pursue your… sledova vašu...
   
26:39 K: What takes place next? K: Èo sa odohrá ïalej?
What happens? Èo sa deje?
   
26:41 S: …experience of – I don't like S: ... skúsenos z - nerád
to use the word 'oneness' používam slovo "Jednota"
   
26:45 because that gets us at the end pretože nás to dostane na koniec
before we go to the middle thing skôr než sa dostaneme k ïalšej veci,
   
26:48 but what does one do next ale èo robí èlovek ïalej,
after one has seen, potom èo uvidel,
   
26:52 and has loved and has been? a miloval a bol?
   
26:56 K: One lives, sir. K: Èlovek žije, pane.
S: One lives. S: Èlovek žije.
   
26:58 So that to live is the same as to Takže ži je to isté ako
love and to see, in any real sense. milova a vidie , v skutoènosti.
   
27:03 K: But it means, sir, K: Ale to znamená, v skutoènosti
the understanding of death. pane, chápanie smrti.
   
27:10 S: The understanding of death. S: Chápanie smrti.
   
27:12 K: Death. Because K: Smrti. Pretože
   
27:16 to love, one must die. aby èlovek miloval,
  musí zomrie .
   
27:19 S: Unquestionably. S: Nepochybne.
   
27:21 K: So there must be the investigation, K: Takže musí tam by skúmanie,
the understanding pochopenie
   
27:26 the awareness, odpovedí,
what it means to die. èo znamená zomrie .
   
27:31 Without that there is no love. Bez toho nie je láska.
   
27:34 S: But could not this be a fiction, S: Ale nemôže to by fikcia,
because who is to tell us pretože kto nám povie
   
27:37 what it's like to die? aké to je umiera ?
K: We're going to find out. K: Ideme to zisti .
   
27:40 S: Find, good. S: V poriadku, dobre.
K: I don't want anybody to tell me, K: Nechcem, aby mi to niekto povedal,
   
27:44 because that means authority. lebo to znamená autoritu.
   
27:46 S: Well, it means dead people, S: To potom znamená màtvi,
who can't speak. ktorí nemôžu hovori .
   
27:48 K: Not only that. K: Nie len to.
   
27:52 The whole Asiatic world believes Ako viete, celý ázijský svet verí
in reincarnation, as you know, v reinkarnáciu,
   
27:59 and, in the Christian world, a v kres anskom svete
the resurrection and so on. vo vzkriesenie a tak ïalej.
   
28:05 To find this out one must Aby to èlovek zistil, musí
investigate if there is skúma , èi existuje
   
28:10 any permanent thing in me akéko¾vek trvalá vec vo mne,
that reincarnates, ktorá sa reinkarnuje,
   
28:17 that is reborn, resurrected, že sa znovuzrodí, vstane z màtvych,
one must enquire èlovek sa musí pýta
   
28:22 into this question, na otázku, èi je v nás
if there is anything permanent. nieèo permanentné.
   
28:27 Permanent? Permanentné?
Nothing is permanent! Niè nie je trvalé!
   
28:31 The carpets go, all the structure, Koberce sa ošúchajú, celá štruktúra,
the technological thing, technologická vec,
   
28:36 all the things man has put together Všetko èo èlovek zložil
is... in a flux. je ... v pohybe.
   
28:43 S: You are not suggesting S: Nenaznaèujete,
that the measure is permanent. že stav je trvalý.
   
28:47 You are not suggesting that S: Nenaznaèujete,
the measure is permanent. že ten stav je trvalý.
   
28:49 K: Measure? K: Stav?
S: The measure. S: Stav.
   
28:52 You were born and you have lived Narodil si sa, žiješ
and you will die, a zomrieš,
   
28:57 and this will take you a to bude trva
a certain number of years. nieko¾ko rokov.
   
28:59 K: Seventy years, thirty years, K: Sedemdesiat rokov, tridsa rokov,
twenty years, whatever it is. dvadsa rokov, ko¾koko¾vek.
   
29:01 S: Is the measure real S: Je stav skutoèný,
or are you real? alebo ste skutoèný?
   
29:03 K: No, no. I am not talking K: Nie, nie. Nehovorím
in terms of measure. o stave.
   
29:06 S: So then if the measure isn't real S: Takže ak stav nie je skutoèný
but something external to you ale znamená pre vás nieèo mimo,
   
29:11 then do we have a right to say máte právo hovori ,
that you end simply? že jednoducho skonèíte?
   
29:16 K: We are coming to that. K: Dostávam sa k tomu.
   
29:18 You know, Viete, celý Grécky svet,
the whole Greek world  
   
29:24 thought in terms uvažuje v termínoch stavu.
of measurement.  
   
29:27 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
29:28 K: And the whole Western world K: A celý západný svet
is based on measurement. je založený na meraní.
   
29:32 And the Eastern world said, A východný svet povedal,
measure is illusion. stav je ilúzia.
   
29:36 And they went into other kind of… A prešli k inému druhu ...
S: …measures. S: ... stavu.
   
29:40 K: Yes, other kind of measure K: Áno, iný druh stavu
and they called it immeasurable. a nazvali ho nesmierny.
   
29:44 Now, I am saying, sir Ja teraz hovorím, pane:
   
29:49 life, living, as we now live, život, žitie, ako dnes žijeme,
is a conflict. je konflikt.
   
29:56 What we call love To, èomu hovoríme láska,
is the pursuit of pleasure. je naháòanie sa za potešením.
   
30:00 What we call death is an To, èo nazývame smr , je
avoidance, is fear, dread of it. vyhýbanie sa, je strach, hrôza z nej.
   
30:05 And being afraid, so completely, A bá sa, tak úplne,
of such an ending takéhoto ukonèenia
   
30:10 we have reincarnation theory, máme teóriu reinkarnácie,
various other theories rôzne iné teórie
   
30:13 which give us great satisfaction, èo nám dáva ve¾kú spokojnos ,
great comfort. ve¾kú pohodu.
   
30:17 And that is not an answer. A to nie je odpoveï.
   
30:19 S: It keeps us from S: To nás odpútava od reality.
seeing the reality.  
   
30:21 K: So, negate all that. K: Tak to znegujme!
   
30:26 So there must be Takže tam musí by
the understanding of death. pochopenie smrti.
   
30:30 What is death? There is Èo je smr ? Je to
the physiological ending. fyziologický koniec?
   
30:36 We don't mind that. To nám nevadí.
We all see death everywhere. Smr vidíme všade.
   
30:42 But what human beings Ale èoho sa ¾udia boja
are concerned with  
   
30:47 is the psychological je psychologický koniec.
ending  
   
30:49 the 'me' ending – the me which Koniec JA - toho JA, ktoré
says, 'I own this house' hovorí:" Ja vlastním tento dom,
   
30:53 my property, my wife, môj majetok, moju ženu, môjho
my husband, my knowledge; muža, moje vedomosti.
   
30:57 I am going to lose all that, To všetko stratím,
therefore I don't want to lose. preto to nechcem strati .
   
31:01 The known is more To èo poznám je ove¾a atraktívnejšie,
attractive than the unknown. než to, èo nepoznám.
   
31:06 The known is the factor of fear. Znalos je faktor strachu
S: In a rational world. S: V racionálnom svete.
   
31:12 K: We are taking, looking at it. K: Vnímame ho, pozeráme sa naò.
S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
31:15 K: So I have to understand what K: Takže musím pochopi , èo
does death mean? Does it mean znamená smr ? Znamená to,
   
31:21 that there is a permanent entity že je tu stála entita
– call it the soul, - nazývaná duša,
   
31:27 the Hindus call it the atman, hinduisti jej hovoria Atman.
doesn't matter what name you give it – Nezáleží na tom, aké meno jej dáte-
   
31:30 a permanent entity stála entita,
that never dies but evolves: èo nikdy neumiera, ale sa vyvíja:
   
31:38 resurrected, vzkriesi sa,
reincarnated, in time. reinkarnuje sa v èase.
   
31:44 Is there such thing Existuje nieèo také
as permanent entity? ako trvalá entita?
   
31:48 Not a theory Nie teória,
   
31:51 not a speculative assertion, nie špekulatívne tvrdenie èi
'There is or there is not' "existuje, alebo neexistuje"
   
31:55 but to find out for oneself ale zisti sám,
if there is a permanent entity, èi existuje stála entita,
   
32:00 the 'me' that says, to "JA", ktoré hovorí,
'I must survive.' "Musím preži ."
   
32:05 Therefore I must have future lives, Preto musím ma budúce životy,
whether in heaven or doesn't matter. èi už v nebi, alebo to je jedno.
   
32:11 Is there such thing? Existuje taká vec?
Which is psychologically. Z psychologického h¾adiska?
   
32:19 Which thought has put together Èo si myse¾ poskladala dokopy
as the 'me'. ako"JA".
   
32:24 S: I cannot conceive of there being S: Neviem si predstavi , že existuje
a permanent entity associated trvalá entita spojená
   
32:28 with what we call the me. s tým, èo nazývame"JA."
   
32:30 K: Obviously. K: Samozrejme.
S: Obviously, yes. S: Samozrejme, áno.
   
32:32 K: Then is there a permanent K: Ïalej, existuje okrem toho
me apart from that? permanetné "JA"?
   
32:35 S: But then we can ask the S: Ale potom sa môžeme pýta ,
question – is there something èi existuje nieèo
   
32:39 immeasurable about vo mne, èo sa nedá zmera ?
me, apart from that?  
   
32:43 K: The moment you say, 'The me is the K: V okamihu, keï poviete:
immeasurable' then I am back again. "Moje "JA" je
   
32:45   nesmierne "potom ste zase spä .
   
32:47 S: You are back again, right. S: Ste zase spä , áno.
Apart from the self, the not me. Okrem mòa, nie ja.
   
32:51 K: I am going to find out. K: Idem to zisti .
S: Yes. Now we must pursue that. S: Áno. Teraz sa o to usilujem.
   
32:54 K: That's it. There must be K: To je ono. Musí tu by
discovery of whether there is objav, èi existuje
   
32:59 the immeasurable or not. to nesmierne, alebo nie.
Not: 'there is' or 'there is not', Nie: existuje, alebo neexistuje,
   
33:04 one must come upon it, èlovek na to musí prís ,
the mind must come upon it. myse¾ na to musí prís .
   
33:07 So, there is no permanent self Takže neexistuje trvalé JA",
– higher, lower – no permanency. - vyššie, nižšie - žiadna stálos .
   
33:14 Therefore what is, then, death? Potom, èo je to smr ?
   
33:20 Physically, biologically, Fyzicky, biologicky,
there is death. smr existuje.
   
33:25 S: This we all understand. S: Toto všetci chápeme.
We see it all the time. Vidíme to po celú dobu.
   
33:27 K: Everything goes. K: Všetko je pominute¾né.
   
33:30 What one is afraid of is the Èoho sa èlovek bojí je
psychological accumulation psychologická akumulácia
   
33:38 in relationship of every form of vo vz ahu každej formy
image, knowledge, function predstavy, vedomostí, fungovania
   
33:45 – that's what we - to je to, èo sa
are frightened of losing. bojíme strati .
   
33:48 That takes the form of the 'me' Èo má podobu "ja"
which is going to evolve, ktoré sa bude vyvíja ,
   
33:53 become more and more perfect bude stále viac a viac
till it reaches heaven or whatever. perfektnejsšie,
   
33:56   kým nedosiahne nebo alebo èo?
   
33:58 We see that is false. Vidíme, že je to klamstvo.
Then what is death? Potom, èo je smr ?
   
34:04 S: You were suggesting that we can S: Naznaèujete, že môžeme
discover the meaning of the words zisti význam slova
   
34:09 'to live' by looking for the "ži " pri poh¾ade na
meaning of the words 'to die.' význam slova "zomrie ."
   
34:14 K: They are related. K: Súvisia.
S: They are related. S: Súvisia.
   
34:16 Unquestionably they are related. Nepochybne súvisia.
K: They are related. K: Súvisia.
   
34:18 S: And most religious writers in S: A väèšina náboženských
comparative religion have said, spisovate¾ov hovorí,
   
34:21 that in order to live že aby èlovek žil,
one must die. musí zomrie .
   
34:25 K: Sir, as I don't read these K: Pane, preto neèítam tieto
books or any of these things knihy alebo niektoré z týchto vecí.
   
34:29 it is an actual fact. To je skutoèný fakt.
To live you must die. Aby si žil, musíš zomrie .
   
34:32 Which means, dying means Èo je, že umrie znamená,
   
34:34 dying every day umiera každý deò
to all the accumulations všetkému, èo sme nahromadili
   
34:36 that you have gathered during the day, poèas dòa,
ending each day, dying, konèi každý deò, umierajúc.
   
34:41 so that the mind is Tak, že myse¾ je
fresh every day, is new. èerstvá každý deò, je nová.
   
34:46 S: Yes. Now, in order to pursue S: Áno. Teraz, aby sme mohli
the question of 'to live' sledova otázku "žitia"
   
34:52 by looking at the question of pri poh¾ade na otázku
'to die' and looking at it finally. "zomrie " a pozrie sa na to kompletne.
   
34:56 K: We do. K: To robíme!
   
34:57 S: The ultimate death, the body S: Na koneènú smr , keï sa telo
has disintegrated in the grave. rozpadá v hrobe.
   
35:01 K: The body is important, K: Telo je dôležité.
to look after it, care for it, Stara sa oò, starostlivo,
   
35:05 and all the rest of it. a celý zvyšok toho.
S: But bury it when it is dead. S: A pochova ho, keï je màtve.
   
35:07 K: Get rid of it. K: Zbavte sa ho!
Bury it, burn it – it's simpler. Pochovajte, spá¾te - jednoduché.
   
35:12 S: Yes. Now suppose that we want to S: Áno jednoduché. Teraz
see what happens predpokladajme, že chceme
   
35:15   vidie , èo sa stane,
   
35:19 when one dies in order to see keï èlovek zomrie, aby bolo vidie
what happens when one lives. èo sa stane, keï èlovek žije.
   
35:23 That's what we're doing. To je to, èo robíme.
K: That's it. Therefore OK: To je ono. Preto
   
35:24 I must first understand musím najprv pochopi
what it means to live èo znamená ži .
   
35:27 not what it means to die. Nie èo znamená zomrie !
   
35:31 One's life as it is Nieèí život, taký aký je,
is a turmoil – as it is. je zmätok - aký je.
   
35:35 It is chaos, it is a mess, with Je to chaos, je to bordel...
all kinds of ideals, conclusions všetky druhy ideálov, záverov
   
35:42 – it is a mess. - je to neporiadok.
   
35:44 Now, if there is no order Pokia¾ nie je poriadok
in this mess v tomto zmätku,
   
35:50 I can't understand what death is. nemôžem pochopi , èo je smr .
Because death is perfect order. Pretože smr je dokonalý poriadok.
   
35:57 I don't know if you see. Neviem, èi to vidíte.
   
35:59 S: What do you mean, because order to S: Èo tým myslíte? Lebo poriadok
me is something imposed from without. pre mòa je nieèo dané zvonka.
   
36:02 K: Wait, sir, I'm coming to that. K: Poèkajte, pane, dostávam sa k tomu.
Death is perfect order Smr je dokonalý poriadok
   
36:05 because it is pretože to je
the ending of disorder. koniec neporiadku.
   
36:08 S: All right. I understand. Yes. S: Dobre. Rozumiem. Áno.
   
36:14 K: So, there must be the ending K: Takže, v mojom živote musí by
of disorder in my living. ukonèenie neporiadku.
   
36:22 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
36:23 K: And the ending of disorder K: A koncom neporiadku
is to be aware of what is disorder, je by si vedomý toho, èo to je neporiadok.
   
36:29 choicelessly. What is disorder? Bezvýhradne. Èo je neporiadok.
My belief, my gods, my country,  
   
36:32   Moje presvedèenie, môj boh,
  moja krajina,
   
36:35 my saying, 'This is better' – you moje vnímanie: "Toto je lepšie" -
follow? – all this terrible violence.  
   
36:37   sledujete? - Toto všetko strašné
  násilie.
   
36:39 See it as it is. And when you see Pozrie sa na to, ako to je. A keï vidíte
it as it is without separation ako to je, bez separácie,
   
36:46 you have energy máte energiu
– as we went into that. - o tom sme už hovorili.
   
36:49 Then in perceiving disorder Potom vnímame neporiadok
there is order, which is harmony. tam, kde je poriadok. Èo je harmónia.
   
36:57 Now, having established that – Teraz, keï sme to zaviedli, vo zmysle
established in the sense: see it, - vidie to,
   
37:02 realize, be it – then death is uvedomi si, by tým - potom smr
not separate from order, nie je odelená od poriadku.
   
37:12 they are together. Order Sú spolu. Poriadok
means the ending of disorder. znamená koniec neporiadku.
   
37:20 S: Yes, and disorder or order, means S: Áno, a neporiadok alebo poriadok,
a consciousness of my presence znamená
   
37:26   vedomie mojej prítomnosti
   
37:32 within you or your presence vo vás alebo vašu prítomnos
within me, or of our oneness. vo mne, alebo našej jednoty.
   
37:36 We must pursue the question Musíme sledova otázku
of our becoming aware nášho uvedomovania si
   
37:41 or giving this undivided alebo venova bezvýhradnú
attention or loving each other pozornos alebo milova sa,
   
37:45 in which each other is eliminated. èo sa navzájom vyluèuje.
Now this is a duality. Teraz je to dualita.
   
37:50 K: There is only a state... K:To je len stav ...
Look, sir, there is no you and me. Pozrite sa, pane, nie ja a ty.
   
37:53 S: Yes. S: Áno.
K: I am not you and you are not me. K: Nie som vy a vy nie ste ja.
   
37:57 There is that quality of awareness, Tá kvalita vedomia,
choiceless, that sense of attention, bez výberu, tá pozornos ,
   
38:03 in which v ktorom
the me and the you ceases. "ja" a "ty" prestane.
   
38:06 You don't say: 'It's unity', Nehovorte: "Je to jednota"
unity implies division. jednota zahàòa rozdelenie.
   
38:13 S: But you are using unity in S: Ale vy používate jednotu
the mathematical sense now. v matematickom zmysle.
   
38:16 I am using unity... Ja používam jednotu ...
Oneness to me implies Jednota pre mòa znamená,
   
38:22 no, oneness to me means nie, jednota je pre mòa to isté
   
38:24 the same as undivided attention. ako plná pozornos .
K: Yes. K: Áno.
   
38:28 S: It doesn't mean division. S: To neznamená rozdelenie.
It doesn't presuppose division. Nepredpokladá rozdelenie.
   
38:31 K: You see, sir, K: Viete pane,
we are discussing hovoríme o tom,
   
38:36 what does it mean èo znamená
to live, to love and to die. ži , milova a zomrie .
   
38:42 That is, the ending of disorder To znamená, že ukonèenie neporiadku
is the ending of death. je ukonèenie smrti.
   
38:50 I don't know Nie je v tom krása?
there's great beauty in this.  
   
38:55 In that state there is not you and me V tomto stave neexistuje ty a ja
– there is no division. - nie je tam rozdelenie.
   
39:04 Then you can find out in that Potom, v tom stave sa môžete dozvedie ,
state what is the immeasurable. èo je to nesmiernos .
   
39:09 Only then you can find out Až potom sa to môžete dozvedie .
not before, Nie skôr,
   
39:12 because then it becomes merely pretože potom sa to stane púhou
speculation, or somebody says, špekuláciou, alebo niekto hovorí,
   
39:15 'There is the immeasurable,there is "Neexistuje , existuje
no God or God' – that has no value.  
   
39:18   žiadny boh alebo boh "
  - to nemá žiadnu hodnotu.
   
39:20 Only when there is this complete Iba v prípade, že je to kompletný
order, really mathematical order,  
   
39:25   poriadok, naozaj matematický
  poriadok,
   
39:29 born out of disorder, zrodený z neporiadku.
not a blueprint imposed on disorder, Nie nápad zrodený z poruchy.
   
39:36 then you will find out, Potom to zistíte.
then the mind discovers Potom myse¾ zistí
   
39:41 whether there is èi existuje
an immeasurable or not. nesmiernos alebo nie.
   
39:44 That, nobody can say, Potom nikto nemôže poveda ,
'yes' or 'no'. 'je alebo nie je'.
   
39:48 If you don't see it, Ak to nevidíte,
   
39:51 if there is no perception ak nevnímate
of the immeasurable nesmiernos ,
   
39:54 then it merely potom sa to
becomes conceptual. stáva púhou koncepciou.
   
39:59 And most religions A väèšina náboženstiev
live on conceptual. funguje na koncepcii.
   
40:05 S: Suppose we were to pursue this Predpokladajme, že by sme sledovali
question of order as the next step otázku poriadku, ako ïalší krok
   
40:09 and ask ourselves, when we say a pýtali sa sami seba, keï povieme
things like this, that peace veci, ako je táto, že mier
   
40:15 harmony, like the harmony of harmónia, rovnako ako harmónia
my fingers working together prstov fungujúcich dokopy,
   
40:19 or like the harmony of you and I alebo ako harmóniu vás a mòa
in our dialogue, if we were to say  
   
40:21   v našom rozhovore,
  ak by sme mali poveda ,
   
40:24 that peace or harmony že mier a harmónia
is the tranquillity je pokoj
   
40:27 that's associated with ktorý je spojený s
order, and wanted to say poriadkom, a niekto povedal,
   
40:31 and what more do we mean èo to má viac spoloèného s poriadkom,
by order than just orderliness? než s usporiadanos ou?
   
40:38 K: Oh my! Orderliness K: Ach! Bože! Usporiadanos
every housewife has. má každá gazdinka.
   
40:43 S: Yes, and can be in complete turmoil S: Áno, a vo vnútri môže by
in the possession of orderliness. v úplnom zmätku.
   
40:46 K: Turmoil inside. We are K: Zmätok vo vnútri. My hovoríme
talking not only outward order nielen o vankajšom poriadku,
   
40:49 but deep, inward order. ale hlbokom, vnútornom poriadku.
   
40:51 S: Yes. Now, what does S: Áno. A teraz, èo je
this deep, inward tak hlboko, vovnútri,
   
40:53 can I use the word môžem použi slovo
'ordination' rather than 'order'? "zasvätenie" skôr ako "poriadok"?
   
40:56 K: Ordination K: Zasvätenie
– I don't know quite what… - neviem presne èo ...
   
40:58 S: The ordination of one to another, S: Zasvätenie, jedného k druhému,
then remove the divisions. potom odstránenie rozporov.
   
41:04 K: Ordination. If we understand K: Zasvätenie. Ak to chápeme
by that word order in the sense v tom zmysle,
   
41:11 no conflict, no friction, no sense žiadny rozpor, žiadne trenie,
of me being bigger than you, žiadny pocit
   
41:15   mòa, ktoré je väèšie než vy,
   
41:18 or no comparison, žiadne porovnávanie,
no sense of ambition, greed... žiadne ambície, chamtivos ...
   
41:24 S: Possession S: Vlastníctvo.
   
41:25 K: the real quality of mind which is K: Skutoèná kvalita mysle, ktorá sa
not concerned with all this bilge nezaoberá všetkým týmto budovaním,
   
41:32 with all this nonsense s týmito nezmyslami
– then that is order. - potom je to poriadok.
   
41:35 S: Yes. So then order and peace S: Áno. Takže poriadok a mier
and tranquillity, which is energy a pokoj, èo je energia
   
41:42 in its fullness vo svojej plnosti,
rather than the lack of energy. skôr než nedostatok energie.
   
41:47 It's not activity but it's the nie je to èinnos , ale je to
fullness of energy, so it's dynamic.  
   
41:49   plnos energie,
  takže je to dynamické.
   
41:51 K: That is necessary, isn't it? K: Je tak, èi nie, že
When there is that complete order, ak je kompletný poriadok,
   
41:57 the mind is no longer in conflict myse¾ už nie je v rozpore
therefore has abundance of energy. a má preto dostatok energie.
   
42:04 S: And what has been done, by you or S: A èo sme urobili, vy, alebo
by me, as we relate to each other ja, vzájomne,
   
42:09 in order to achieve this order aby sme dosiahli tento poriadok
that we are speaking about? ... o ktorom hovoríme?
   
42:18 K: You can't achieve it. Out of being K: Nemôžete ho dosiahnu . Mimo
aware of disorder, choicelessly,  
   
42:21   uvedomovania si neporiadku,
  bezvýhradne,
   
42:25 order comes naturally. poriadok prichádza prirodzene.
   
42:27 S: But is it true that many S: Ale je pravda, že mnohí
people do not achieve order? ¾udia nedosahujú poriadok?
   
42:32 And we were also A my sme sa tiež
asking the question: pýtali na otázku:
   
42:33 'Can we change "Môžeme zmeni
disorder into order neporiadok na poriadok,
   
42:36 or can we change death into life, ako môžeme zmeni smr na život?
can we change hate into love Nenávis na lásku?
   
42:39 can we change blindness Môžeme zmeni slepotu
into seeing?' na videnie? "
   
42:41 These are the questions To sú otázky, ktorými
we've been dealing with. sa zaoberáme.
   
42:43 and we haven't answered A neodpovedali sme na
the question: otázku:
   
42:45 can this change take place? Môže táto zmena prebehnú ?
Just there it is, you know. Proste je to tu, viete.
   
42:48 But if we wanted Ale ak by sme sa chceli
to deal with this… s tým vysporiada ...
   
42:54 K: I or you listen K: Poèúvate, èo hovorím.
to what is being said.  
   
42:57 You give your whole attention Dávate tomu plnú pozornos ,
   
42:59 not as a Catholic or this or that nie ako katolík alebo ten èi ten
– you give your complete attention! - dávate tomu plnú pozornos !
   
43:06 In that state of attention V tomto stave pozornosti
there is a transformation. je transformácia.
   
43:10 You are no longer a Hindu, Už nie ste Hind,
Buddhist or whatever it is Budhista alebo èo to je.
   
43:15 you have finished with all that. Skonèili ste s tým všetkým.
You are now a total human being. Teraz ste úplná ¾udská bytos .
   
43:22 Then you go round talking about it Potom pôjdete a budete o tom hovori
– you follow? - budete...
   
43:29 You are active, you are an Ste aktívny, ste
outsider operating on the world. outsider pôsobiaci vo svete.
   
43:39 But you are not of the world Ale nie ste mimo sveta,
but an outsider. ale ste outsider.
   
43:43 S: Would you say that in our S: Povedali by ste, že v našej
conversation that the closer konverzácii, že èím bližšie
   
43:48 we get to the truth, sa dostávame k pravde,
the less conscious you become tým menej si uvedomujete
   
43:51 of the fact that I am že som
a Catholic priest? Does it matter? katolícky kòaz? Záleží na tom?
   
43:54 K: Not in the least. Ani v najmenšom.
S: Not in the least. S: Ani v najmenšom.
   
43:56 K: But it is up to you. K: Ale to je len na vás.
   
43:58 S: And it has not mattered to S: A nezáležalo by
me whether you are a priest na me, èi ste kòaz
   
44:00 or not a priest. I haven't alebo nie kòaz. Nemám,
even thought of that ani mi nenapadlo, že...
   
44:02 because I am giving pretože vám dávam
choiceless attention to you. bezvýhranú pozornos .
   
44:05 K: It makes a little difference. K: Je to rozdiel.
It makes a difference. Je to rozdiel.
   
44:07 Take, for instance, I have met in Zoberme si napríklad,
India and elsewhere... v Indii som stretol...
   
44:14 Several Hindus nieko¾ko Hindov
have come to me and said prišli ku mne a povedalo:
   
44:17 'Why don't you put "Preèo si neobleèieš
on sannyasis robes?' na seba sannyasini habit? "
   
44:20 You know, sannyasis, the monks robe. Viete, sannyasini, rúcho mnícha.
I said, 'Why should I?' Povedal som: "Preèo by som mal?"
   
44:26 'To show that you are not "Aby si ukázal, že nie si
of the world.' z vonkajšieho sveta.'
   
44:29 I said, 'Look, I'm not wanting Povedal som: "Hej, ja nechcem
to show anything to anybody.' ukazova nikomu niè. "
   
44:36 This is real to me, Toto je moje skutoèné ja.
that's good enough. To staèí.
   
44:38 If you want to come and listen, Ak chcete prís a poèúva ,
listen. poèúvajte.
   
44:40 But don't go by my garb, Ale nesúïte pod¾a mojom odevu,
by my gesture, by my face, mojich gest, pod¾a mojej tváre,
   
44:45 that's not important. to nie je dôležité.
But to them it is important Ale pre nich to je dôležité,
   
44:49 because they use that as a pretože to používajú ako
platform from which to attack platformu, z ktorej zaútoèi ,
   
44:57 or to distract or to take. odvráti sa alebo stiahnu sa.
   
45:00 But if you are not standing Ale ak nestojíte
on any platform, na žiadnej platforme,
   
45:05 if you don't belong to ak nikam nepatríte,
anything, why should I have preèo by som mal ma
   
45:08 any collar, no collar, akýko¾vek golier, bez goliera,
no shirt… [laughs] trièko ... [smiech]
   
45:12 S: But I think as we pursue the S: Ale myslím, že keï sme sledujeme
question of what it means to live otázku, èo znamená ži
   
45:16 and to die, to be and to a zomrie , by a
not be, to love and to hate neby , milova a nenávidie ,
   
45:21 as we pursue those things, ako sledujeme tieto veci,
we must also at the same time musíme tiež v rovnakom èase
   
45:24 pursue the question: sledova otázku:
what does it mean to belong? èo to znamená patri ?
   
45:28 Now, if you asked me, 'Do you Teraz, ak by ste sa ma spýtali:
belong to the Catholic Church?' "Patríte do katolíckej cirkvi? "
   
45:31 I would say, 'Of course not' Povedal by som, "Samozrejme, že nie '
because I am not a thing pretože nie som vec
   
45:34 which can be possessed by anyone. ktorú môže ktoko¾vek vlastni .
K: Quite. K: Presne.
   
45:36 S: Nor is the Catholic Church S: Ani katolícka cirkev
something I possess. to èo mám ja.
   
45:40 So we would not like to use Takže by som nerád používal
the word 'belong' slovo "patri .
   
45:43 If we had a love relationship Keby sme spolu mali
with each other srdeèný vz ah
   
45:46 could I say you are my friend? mohol by som poveda , že ste môj priate¾?
K: Yes. K: Áno.
   
45:48 S: No I couldn't because that S: Nie, nemohol, pretože to
would connote belonging. bude znamena vlastníctvo.
   
45:50 K: I see what you mean. K: Vidím, èo máte na mysli.
Yes, yes. Áno áno.
   
45:52 S: I could not say you were my friend. S: Nemohol by som poveda ,
We use the word all the time že si môj priate¾.
   
45:53   Používame to slovo stále.
   
45:55 but the word 'my' distorts Ale slovo "moje" skresluje
what we see when we... èo vidíme, keï sme ...
   
45:58 K: Sir, I am questioning, why K: Pane, pýtam sa, preèo
do we belong to anything at all? vôbec patríme nieèomu?
   
46:03 S: I don't think we can. If we S: Myslím si, že len...keï sme
are free then we are not slaves slobodní, potom nie sme otroci
   
46:07 and we don't belong to anything. a nepatríme k nièomu.
K: That is the main thing. K: To je hlavná vec.
   
46:09 S: The possessive S: Privlastòovací
relationship is irrelevant. vz ah je irelevantný.
   
46:12 K: Not to belong to any organized K: Nepatri k žiadnej organizovanej,
spiritual or religious group, duchovnej alebo náboženskej skupine,
   
46:16 or belong to a party, alebo osobe,
this or that. tomuto alebo tamtomu.
   
46:20 Because that encourages Pretože to podnecuje
divisions. rozdelenie.
   
46:23 S: Yes. If I am, or if I am free S: Áno. Ak som, alebo som slobodný
– those mean the same thing - to je to isté -
   
46:27 then I am not capable of being potom nie som schopný by
possessed by anyone. vlastnený kýmko¾vek.
   
46:29 I don't belong. The word Nepatrím. To slovo
doesn't mean anything. niè neznamená.
   
46:32 K: Not to belong K: Nepatri
means to stand alone. znamená stá samostatne.
   
46:40 S: But this is the contradiction S: Ale to je rozpor
of what we have been saying toho, èo hovoríme
   
46:43 during the whole time. po celú dobu.
No, not to belong is the price Nepatri , je cena
   
46:49 one must pay for being and ktorú èlovek musí zaplati za to, že je
loving and seeing anything. milujúci a vidiaci.
   
46:56 K: Yes, sir, but also it implies K: Áno, pane, ale tiež to znamená,
not to belong to any structure nepatri k akejko¾vek štruktúre
   
47:04 which human beings ktorú ¾udské bytosti
have put together. dali dohromady.
   
47:10 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
47:13 K: Which means that you have K: Èo znamená, že musíte
to stand alone, outside. zosta sám, vonku.
   
47:18 Not belong to all this mess. Nepatri k tomuto celému zmätku.
   
47:20 Sir, when you have order Pane, keï máte poriadok,
you don't belong to disorder. nepatríte k neporiadku.
   
47:28 S: But now I think we are getting S: Ale teraz sa stále
close to what we wanted to say približujeme k tomu, èo sme chceli poveda ,
   
47:31 that to die is to live. že zomrie je ži .
   
47:38 K: Sir, is that a concept K: Pane, je to koncept
or a reality? alebo realita?
   
47:42 S: No, no, that's an experience, S: Nie, nie, to je zážitok,
that's a reality. to je realita.
   
47:45 K: If it is real K: Vtedy, keï skutoène
it is something burning! nieèo horí!
   
47:48 It isn't just a… To nie je len ...
it burns everything false! páli to všetko falošné!
   
47:52 S: I see that, and of course S: Vidím to, a samozrejme to
we experience this all the time. zažívam po celú dobu.
   
47:56 What I'm saying is, if one can To èo hovorím je, èi èlovek môže
get over the fear of dying prekona strach zo smrti
   
48:01 and one can understand and live a pochopi to a ži
with the fullness of this energy plnos ou tejto energie
   
48:06 that we're talking about. I think o ktorej hovoríme. A rovnako,
by the same token, if one can èi èlovek môže
   
48:09 get over the question of belonging, prekona otázku spolupatriènosti,
or having in any way, alebo vlastnenia,
   
48:16 one can get to the question vo všetkom, dosta sa k otázke
that being is. I wonder  
   
48:20   že "by " znamená "je".
  Zaujímalo by ma
   
48:24 if this is loneliness, or being èi je to samota, z toho, že som
alone. I wonder if this is being…  
   
48:26   sám. Zaujímalo by ma,
  èi je to, že ...
   
48:28 K: The danger of being, one has K: Nebezpeèenstvo bytia,
to go into that. What is it to be? èlovek sa na to musí pozrie ...
   
48:31   Èo to znamená "by ?"
   
48:35 We can put it into various categories. Môžeme to da do rôznych kategórií,
The category is not being. ale kategória nie je "bytie."
   
48:40 S: But when you suggested that, S: Ale ste naznaèil,
when we were discussing the question keï sme diskutovali túto otázku,
   
48:44 of what it is to be, and we aké to je, a my
pursued this through the question sme preberali túto otázku
   
48:48 of dying and belonging, and umierania a spolupatriènosti, a
you said – to be is to be alone. vy ste povedal - By , je by sám.
   
48:53 Is that what you want to say? Je to to, èo chcete poveda ?
   
48:55 K: How can I, sir, if I die to K: Ako môžem vedie , èi moje
my conditioning as a Hindu… podmienenie ako Hind ...
   
48:58 how can I belong to… be Ako môžem patri ... by
a Hindu? It has no meaning. Hind? To nemá zmysel.
   
49:04 S: Fine. S: Dobre. Ale zomrie kvôli tomu
But having died to being… aby ...
   
49:07 K: See what happens, sir. I discard, K: Pozrite, èo sa deje, pane.
I throw away the garb of Hinduism, Zbavil som sa,
   
49:11   zahodil som odev hinduistu,
   
49:15 or Catholicism, whatever it is, alebo katolicizmu, èi èo to je,
and what takes place? a èo sa deje?
   
49:19 I am an outsider. Som outsider.
   
49:24 I am an outsider in the sense Som outsider v tom zmysle,
I may say, 'I love you' že môžem poveda , "milujem a",
   
49:27 but I am still an outsider, ale som stále outsider.
because there is Preto to je
   
49:30 a state of disorder to stav neporiadku, do
which human beings belong ktorého ¾udské bytosti patria,
   
49:33 and the man who is outside, a èlovek, ktorý je vonku,
he doesn't belong. tam nepatrí.
   
49:37 S: Unquestionably. Or may not S: Bezpochyby. Alebo nemusí
have a sense of belonging or majú pocit spolupatriènosti alebo
   
49:41 cannot use the word 'to belong'. nemožno použi slovo "patri ".
I cannot use the word 'to belong'. Nemôžem použi slovo "patri ".
   
49:43 K: He is out! K: On je vonku!
There is no relationship! Neexistuje žiadny vz ah!
   
49:46 Now, when there is no relationship Teraz, keï neexistuje žiadny vz ah
between disorder and order medzi poriadkom a neporiadkom,
   
49:54 – you follow, sir? - sledujete, pane?
S: I follow. S: Sledujem.
   
49:56 K: Then, what is the state of the mind K: Tak, aký je stav mysle,
which is not that? ktorá nie je taká?
   
50:04 S: You are suggesting that the state S: Keï naznaèuje, že stav
of the mind is one of being alone. mysle je by sám.
   
50:09 K: Alone in the sense it is not K: Sám v tom zmysle, že to nie je
contaminated, it is really innocent kontaminované, je to naozaj nevinné.
   
50:19 – innocence in the sense Nevinnos v tom zmysle,
it cannot be hurt. že nemôže by zranená.
   
50:22 After all, the word 'innocency', Koniec koncov, slovo "nevinnos "
the root meaning is 'not to be hurt.' koreò význam je "neby ublížený."
   
50:28 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
50:29 K: Nocere – you know. K: ...viete.
So, it is no longer Tak, už to nie je
   
50:35 though it may live in the world, žijeme vo svete, ktorý
it is not of the world. už nie je z tohto sveta.
   
50:39 S: Yes, in the sense of S: Áno, v tom zmysle,
conflict and turmoil konflikty a nepokoje.
   
50:41 K: All the messy stuff. K: Všetky chaotické veci.
S: And all the messy stuff, yes. S: A všetky chaotické veci, áno.
   
50:44 K: Now, that is absolutely Viem, že je absolútne nutné
necessary to find out more. zisti viac.
   
50:49 Not more in the sense of Nie viac v zmysle
something more, but that state nieèo viac, ale v tom stave
   
50:54 is absolutely essential to discover je absolútne nevyhnutné zisti ,
the immeasurable or not. èi existuje nesmiernos alebo nie.
   
50:59 S: Yes. I think this is true. So that S: Áno. Myslím, že je to pravda. Aby
   
51:02 we do, in a sense, find seeing and sme, v istom zmysle našlli videnie a
loving and being, in being alone.  
   
51:13 K: Yes, sir. You see… lásku a bytie v tom keï sme
  osamotený.
   
51:18 S: If one disassociates himself A je to spojené s neporiadkom...
from disorder, he's…  
   
51:22 K: Not 'one mind.' In observing K: Nie nieèia myse¾. Pri pozorovaní
disorder, in being aware neporiadku, uvedomovaním
   
51:28 choicelessly of disorder, si neporiadku,
order comes. nastáva poriadok.
   
51:31 You don't belong to Nepatríte k jednému alebo
one or… there is order. k druhému ... je tam poriadok!
   
51:36 S: And as we pursue the question S: A ako sme sa zaoberali otázkou
of the meaning of order, významu poriadku,
   
51:40 – or harmony, tranquillity or peace – - alebo harmónie, pokoja a mieru -
we found ourselves ocitli sme sa
   
51:44 with the same answer, but pri rovnakej odpovedi,
this is to be in the first place, v prvom rade by ,
   
51:48 this is to love to je milova
in the first place, na prvom mieste.
   
51:50 this is to see To je vidie
in the first place. na prvom mieste.
   
51:53 K: Order, sir, is one of the K: Poriadok pane, je jedna z
most extraordinary things najmimoriadnejších vecí
   
51:56 because it's always new. pretože je vždy nový.
   
52:00 It isn't order according to a pattern, Nie je to poriadok pod¾a vzoru,
it is a living thing. je to živá vec.
   
52:07 Virtue is a living thing. Cnos je živá vec.
It isn't: 'I am virtuous'. To nie je: "Ja som cnostný".
   
52:11 S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
52:12 K: You cannot ever K: Nemôžete nikdy
say 'I am virtuous,' hovori "ja som cnostný"
   
52:15 because if you say that pretože ak to poviete, už
you are not virtuous. nie ste cnostný.
   
52:18 But virtue is a living thing, moving, Ale cnos je živá vec, pohyb,
like a river flowing, alive. teèie ako rieka teèie, žije.
   
52:25 And therefore in that state A preto...v tomto stave,
   
52:30 something beyond je nieèo mimo, èo sa nedá zmera .
measure takes place.  
   
52:35 S: And it's at that moment that S: A v tej chvíli èlovek
one discovers the immeasurable. objaví nesmiernos .
   
52:38 K: Yes. K: Áno.
S: Yes.  
   
52:40 K: You see, not discovers K: Viete, neobjavíte ju.
– it is there. - Je tam!
   
52:43 It is there! Je tam!
S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
52:45 K: 'Discovery' and 'experience' K: Viete "objavi " a "skúsenos "
are rather unfortunate words, sú naneš astie len slová,
   
52:50 because most human beings want pretože väèšina ¾udí chce
to experience something great zaži nieèo ve¾ké.
   
52:55 because their lives are shoddy, Pretože ich životy sú také nudné,
their lives are petty, ich životy sú malicherné,
   
52:59 their lives ich životy
are full of anxiety. sú plné úzkosti.
   
53:03 They say, Hovoria:
'For God's sake, give me Pane Bože, daj mi
   
53:05 greater experience, väèšie skúsenosti,
something more'. nieèo viac!
   
53:08 Therefore these meditations, Preto existujú tieto meditácie,
   
53:10 these groups forming tieto skupiny, ktoré sa tvoria,
who meditate and all that ktoré meditujú a to všetko
   
53:14 they are searching for that. h¾adajú.
   
53:16 Whereas they have to bring Zatia¾èo majú v prvom rade prinies
order in their life first. poriadok.
   
53:22 And then A potom
   
53:25 what takes place is something èo sa deje, je nieèo
quite beyond measure. úplne mimo nesmiernosti.
   
53:30 I think that's enough. Myslím, že to staèí.
   
53:32 S: So then if we are pursuing S: Takže ak sa naháòame
   
53:34 the question of za nieèím
the measurelessness… nesmiernym..
   
53:42 if we are pursuing… ak sledujeme ...
K: You can't pursue it. K: Nemôžete sa za tým naháòa .
   
53:45 S: Well, and you can't discover it… S: No, a nedá sa to objavi ...
K: You can't pursue it. K: Nemôžete to realizova .
   
53:48 S: This is good. You cannot pursue it, S: To je dobré. Nemôžete to sledova ,
you cannot discover it nemôžete to objavi
   
53:50 and it's not good to use a nie je dobré používa
the word 'experience' about it. slovo "skúsenos ".
   
53:53 All of this we understand. To sme si prešli.
When one comes upon it... A keï to èlovek nájde...
   
53:58 K: You leave the door open, sir. K: Necháte dvere otvorené, pane.
   
54:00 S: You leave the door open. S: Necháte dvere otvorené.
   
54:01 K: Let the sun come in. K: Nech slnko príde.
If the sun comes in, it's all right, A keï slnko príde, je to v poriadku.
   
54:05 if it doesn't, it's all right. Ak nepríde, je to v poriadku.
S: Yes. S: Áno.
   
54:07 K: Because the moment K: Èím viac sa za tým naháòate,
you pursue it you close the door. tým viac zatvárate dvere.
   
54:10 S: The very pursuit S: To isté h¾adanie
is the closing the door. je zatváranie dverí.
   
54:12 K: The very search for truth is the K: To isté h¾adanie pravdy je
closing of truth, blocking truth. zakrívanie pravdy. Zamkýnanie pravdy.
   
54:16 S: Yes. S: Áno.
K: Right, that's enough. K: Dobre, to staèí.