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San Diego - 17 February 1972

Conversation with Eugene Shallert 2

0:03	Q: Krishnamurti in Dialogue	Q: Krishnamurtiho rozhovor
	with Father Eugene Schallert	s Otcom Eugenom Schallertom

0:07	J. Krishnamurti was born in South	J. Krishnamurti sa narodil v Južnej
	India and educated in England.	Indii a vzdelával sa v Anglicku.

0:12	For the past 40 years he has been	Za posledných 40 rokov rozpráva
	speaking in the United States,	po USA,

0:16	Europe, India, Australia	Európe, Indii, Austrálii
	and other parts of the world.	a v iných èastiach sveta.

0:20	From the outset	Od samého poèiatku
	of his life's work	jeho celoživotného diela

0:22	he repudiated	odmietal
	all connections	všetky spojenia

0:24	with organised	s organizovanými
	religions and ideologies	náboženstvami a ideológiami

0:27	and said that	a povedal, že jeho
	his only concern	jedinou staros ou

0:29	was to set man absolutely,	je úplne, bezpodmieneène
	unconditionally free.	oslobodi èloveka.

0:33	He is the author	Je autorom mnohých kníh,
	of many books, among them	medzi inými ako:

0:36	The Awakening of Intelligence,	Zobudenie inteligencie,
	The Urgency of Change,	Naliehavos zmeny,

0:40	Freedom From the Known	Oslobodenie sa od poznaného
	and The Flight of the Eagle.	a Let orla.

0:45	In dialogue with Krishnamurti	V rozhovore s Krishnamurtim
	is the Rev. Eugene J. Schallert	je Rev. Eugene J. Schallert

0:49	of the Society of Jesuits,	Spoloènosti jezuitov,
	the Director of the Center	riadite¾ Centra

0:53	for Sociological Research at	pre sociologický výskum na
	the University of San Francisco	Universite v San Franciscu

0:56	where Father Schallert is an	kde je otec Schallert
	Associate Professor of Sociology.	Docentom sociológie.

1:01	S: In order to achieve this seeing	S: Aby sme dosiahli to videnie
	that we have been discussing,	o ktorom sme diskutovali,

1:06	one must arrive at a state	èlovek sa musí dosta do stavu
	in which he is attentive	v ktorom je pozorný

1:13	and freely or choicelessly attentive	a slobodne alebo bezvýhrade pozorný
	to the other	k druhému.

1:20	– perhaps we could use: he can give	Možno by sme mohli poveda , že
	his undivided attention to the other.	môže venova

1:22		svoju úplnú pozornos druhému.

1:25	K: Yes, yes.	K: Áno, áno.

1:26	S: And before we take the next step,	S: A predtým, ako sa pohneme ïalej,
	could I say that we are really

1:28		mohol by som poveda ,
		že v skutoènosti

1:31	not looking for an answer	neh¾adáme odpoveï na otázku:
	to the question 'what is seeing?'.	"Èo je to videnie?"

1:35	Are we not looking	Neh¾adáme videnie v sebe,
	for seeing itself

1:38	which is really not an answer?	èo v skutoènosti
		nie je odpoveï.

1:41	K: Is there an answer, sir,	K: Existuje odpoveï, pane,

1:46	when there is real perception	kde je skutoèné vnímanie
	– actually what is –	- skutoènosti toho èo je -

1:50	is there an answer?	je to odpoveï?

1:52	S: Perception is not an answer.	S: Vnímanie nie je odpoveï.

1:54	I must insist with you that	Musím trva na tom, že
	perception is not an answer.	vnímanie nie je odpoveï.

1:59	K: But...	K: Ale...
	there is perception of what is:	existuje vnímanie toho, èo je:

2:06	what is in the world, what is in me	èo je vo svete, èo je vo mne.
	– I am the world and the world is me.	Ja som svet a svet som ja.

2:10	That perception, not a conceptual	To vímanie, nie nejaká koncepcia,
	perception but actual perception,	ale skutoèné vnímanie,

2:17	the world is me	svet je ja
	and I am the world.	a ja som svet.

2:22	There's no division between me	Neexistuje rozdelenie medzi
	and the world. I am the world.	mnou a svetom. Ja som svet.

2:26	There is perception.	To je vnímanie.

2:31	What takes place in that perception?	Èo sa deje keï vnímam?
	That's what you're asking, sir?	To je to, èo sa pýtate pane?

2:37	S: I'm asking, yes,	S: Pýtam sa, áno, èo sa deje
	what takes place in that perception.	v takom vnímaní?

2:41	It's difficult for us to use	Je pre nás ažké používa slová
	a word because, in a sense	pretože, v istom zmysle

2:46	for so long we have taken each	tak dlho sme brali seba, naše duality,
	other, our dualities, our world,	náš svet,

2:52	as a given, taken it for granted,	ako daný, berieme ho
	and because of this predisposition	ako samozrejmos ,

2:55		a kvôli tejto predispozícii

2:58	to take things for granted,	bra veci ako samozrejmos , myslím
	I think we have, in a sense	si, že je pre nás, v tomto zmysle

3:01	made it impossible or difficult	nemožné alebo ažké
	for us to simply perceive.	jednoducho vníma .

3:06	But once we can control this	Ale akonáhle môžeme toto kontrolova
	and say we are really interested in	a poveda , že sa naozaj zaujímame

3:11	is the simple perception that precedes	je jednoduché vnímanie,
	all rational, logical knowledge,	ktoré predchádza

3:15		všetky racionálne, logické vedomosti,

3:18	all of our biases and prejudices, and	všetky naše sklony a predsudky,
	from which these biases do not come.	z ktorých tieto predsudky nevznikajú.

3:25	Then we are ready to ask…	Vtedy sme pripravení sa pýta ...
	K: Or rather, wouldn't we put it	K: Alebo by sme radšej povedali:

3:28	there is no perception	vnímanie nie je tam,
	if there's a bias.	kde sú predsudky.

3:30	S: No perception if there's a bias.	S: Vnímanie neexistuje, ak máme
		predsudky.

3:33	A bias is that which precisely	Predsudok je to, èo robí
	makes perception impossible.	vnímanie nemožným.

3:37	It's when I do not want	Je to vtedy, keï vás nechcem
	to perceive you...	vníma ...

3:39	K: Of course, I build a barrier.	K: Samozrejme, vybudoval som
	S: I build a barrier.	si bariéru.

3:41		S: Vybudoval som si bariéru.

3:42	K: Whether the barrier of	K: Èi už je to bariéra
	religion, barrier of politics,	náboženstva, bariéra politiky,

3:45	barrier of whatever it is.	bariéra hocièoho.

3:48	S: Now, if it is true that	S: Teda ak je to pravda, že
	in the pursuit of seeing you…	v snahe vidie vás...

3:57	in the pursuit of	v snahe vníma vás,
	the perception of you,

4:01	what is needed within me	to èo je vo mne,
	is not me.	nie som ja.

4:05	K: Yes, that's right.	K: Áno, to je pravda.

4:07	S: And what is needed within you	S: A èo je potrebné vo vás,
	is not you.	nie ste vy.

4:10	Then when we speak of	Potom, keï hovoríme o takých
	such things as perception,	veciach, ako je vnímanie,

4:15	are we not in some way or another	nehovoríme nejako
	speaking of oneness or truth?	o jednote, alebo pravde?

4:18	K: I would not come to that yet.	K: Ešte by som o tom nehovoril.
	To me, it seems	Pre mòa to znamená

4:25	seeing the world is me and	že videnie sveta som ja
	I am the world – or I am you and…	a ja som svet - alebo som ja a ...

4:34	I mean, seeing, psychologically,	Myslím, vidie , psychologicky,
	whether I'm a Hindu, Buddhist,	èi už som hinduista, budhista,

4:40	Christian, we are the same –	kres an, sme rovnakí -
	psychologically, inwardly,	psychologicky, vnútorne

4:43	we are all in the state of confusion,	sme všetci v stave zmätku,
	battle, misery, sorrow,	bitvy, utrpenia, smútku,

4:47	with appalling sense of	s desivým pocitom
	loneliness, despair.	osamelosti, zúfalstva.

4:52	That's the common ground	Je to spoloèná èrta
	of all humanity.	celého ¾udstva.

5:00	There is that perception.	To je to vnímanie.

5:02	Now, what takes place	Teda, èo sa deje,
	when there is that perception?	keï je tu to vnímanie?

5:06	S: That is what we're trying	S: To je to, èo sa snažíme
	to pursue and to explain –	sledova a vysvetli -

5:09	without explaining it.	bez vysvet¾ovania.

5:11	K: We're going	K: Ideme
	to share together in this.	to zdie¾a spoloène.

5:19	There is perception of sorrow.	Vnímame smútok.
	Let's take that.	Zoberme si ten.

5:29	My son, my brother,	Môj syn, môj brat,
	my father dies.	môj otec zomrie.

5:36	What takes place, generally, is:	Èo sa väèšinou deje, je:
	I escape from it	Chcem z toho uniknú ,

5:43	because I can't face	pretože nevládzem èeli tomu
	this sense of tremendous	pocitu nesmierneho

5:46	danger of loneliness, of despair.	nebezpeèia samoty, alebo zúfalstva.
	So I escape	Takže uniknem.

5:54	– escape in ideology,	K nejakej ideológii, konceptu,
	in concepts, in a dozen ways.	rôznymi spôsobmi.

5:59	Now, to perceive the escape	Teraz, aby som vnímal ten únik,

6:05	just to perceive,	len vnímal, nie kontroloval ho,
	not check it, not control it,

6:08	not say, 'I mustn't perceive',	nehovoril: "Nesmiem to vníma ",
	just to be aware, choicelessly again,	len si

6:11		ho uvedomova , znova bezvýhradne,

6:14	aware that you're escaping.	uvedomova si, že unikáte.
	Then the escape stops.	Potom ten únik prestane.

6:23	The momentum of escape	Pohyb úniku
	is a wastage of energy.	je strata energie.

6:28	You've stopped that energy	Zastavili ste tú energiu
	– not you have stopped –	- nie že vy ste ju zastavili -

6:32	perception has ended the wastage,	vnímanie ukonèilo to mrhanie,
	therefore you have more energy,	preto máte viacej energie,

6:36	there is more energy.	je tam viac energie.

6:40	Then,	Potom, keï neexistuje únik,
	when there's no escape,

6:46	you're faced with the fact	èelíte faktu ktorý je.
	of what is.

6:49	That is:	Èo je, že ste niekoho stratili.
	you have lost somebody!

6:54	Death, loneliness, despair.	Smr , samota, zúfalstvo.
	That is exactly what is.	To je to, èo je.

6:59	There, again,	Potom , znova, vnímanie
	a perception of what is.	toho, èo je.

7:04	S: I think I see	S: Myslím, že chápem smer,
	the direction you are taking.	ktorým sa uberáte.

7:06	What you want to say is that	To, èo chcete poveda je, že
	when I perceive that you are sorrowful	keï vidím, že ste smutný,

7:14	– I don't perceive sorrow,	- nevnímam boles ,
	it doesn't exist by itself –	neexistuje sama o sebe -

7:17	so when I perceive that you are	takže keï vidím, že ste
	sorrowful, what I perceive is	smutný, èo vidím, je

7:21	that you have been separated,	že ste sa oddelil,
	and this is a source of sorrow	a to je zdrojom smútku

7:28	because now your father	pretože teraz je váš otec
	is dead and you are separated.	màtvy a ste od seba oddelený.

7:31	And in perceiving that sorrow	A vnímanie toho smútku
	is associated with separation…	je spojené s oddelením ...

7:37	K: Not quite, sir.	K: Nie celkom tak, pane.
	S: Or am I not	S: Alebo

7:39	perceiving that joy	nevnímam tú rados
	is associated with…	spojenú s...

7:42	K: No, sir, not yet, no.	K: Nie pane, ešte nie, nie.
	The fact is I have lost somebody.	Faktom je, že som niekoho stratil.

7:46	That's a fact – burned, gone.	To je fakt - spálený, preè.

7:50	And it is something gone finally!	A je to nieèo, èo je preè naveky!
	You can't...

7:55	And I feel tremendously lonely	A cítim sa nesmierne sám
	– that's a fact –	- to je fakt -

8:02	lonely, without any sense	sám, bez nejakého pocitu
	of relationship	vz ahu,

8:07	without a sense of	bez pocitu
	any security.	bezpeèia.

8:12	I'm completely at the end.	Som úplne v koncoch.

8:18	S: Many people speak of this	S: Mnohí ¾udia hovoria o tom a
	as saying, 'I am empty now.'	vravia: Teraz som úplne prázdny.

8:24	K: Yes, empty. And there is an	K: Áno, prázdny. A je tam
	awareness of this emptiness	uvedomovanie si tejto prázdnoty

8:30	of this loneliness,	tejto samoty,
	of this despair.	tohto zúfalstva.

8:33	I say when you don't escape	A ja hovorím, že keï neuteèiete,
	you conserve the energy.	držíte si energiu.

8:39	Now there is this conservation	Teraz je tam zachovanie
	of energy when I'm facing	energie, keï èelím

8:44	the fear of my loneliness.	strachu zo samoty.

8:49	I meet it.	Chápem.
	You're aware of it.	Uvedomujete si to.

8:56	There is an awareness of	Je tam uvedomovanie si
	this fear of loneliness.	tohto strachu zo samoty.

9:01	S: But now, how can you give	S: Ale, ako môžete venova
	your undivided attention	vašu plnú pozornos

9:07	to someone whom you have lost,	niekomu, koho ste stratili,
	simply and finally?	jednoducho a naveky?

9:13	K: I've lost him finally,	K: Stratil som ho naveky,
	but now we're examining	ale teraz skúmame

9:17	the state of the mind	stav mysle, ktorá utrpela stratu.
	that has lost.

9:22	S: Yes, we're trying	S: Áno, snažíme sa porozumie ...
	to understand…

9:25	K: …the mind that says,	K:...myse¾, ktorá hovorí:
	'I've lost everything.	Stratil som všetko!

9:28	I'm really	Som naozaj
	in desperate sorrow.'	zúfalo smutný. "

9:32	Right? And there is fear.	Práve! A to je strach.

9:38	See that fear,	Pozrite sa na strach,

9:41	don't run away, don't escape,	neutekajte od neho, neunikajte,
	don't try to smother it	nesnažte sa ho potlaèi ,

9:44	by courage and all the rest	pozbierajte všetku odvahu
	of it – see that fear	a pozrite sa na strach.

9:48	be choicelessly aware	Bezvýhradne si ten strach uvedomujte.
	of that fear.

9:52	In that awareness fear disappears.	V tom uvedomovaní strach zmizne.
	It does disappear!	Naozaj zmizne!

9:58	Then	Potom, teraz máte viac energie.
	you have now greater energy.

10:03	S: Yes, and we have all experienced	S: Áno, všetci sme zažili,
	that, how seeing fear disarms fear.	že vidie strach odzbrojuje strach.

10:10	K: Next, what is there?	K: Ïalej, èo sa tam deje?
	Why is there sorrow?	Preèo je tam smútok?

10:16	What is sorrow?	Èo je to smútok?

10:18	Self-pity?	Seba¾utovanie?

10:20	S: When it's associated	S: Keï sa spojí
	with anxiety or fear	s úzkos ou alebo strachom,

10:23	then we will have	potom to budeme musie nazva
	to call it self-pity.	seba¾útos .

10:26	K: Self-pity.	K: Seba¾útos .
	What does that mean, self-pity?	Èo seba¾útos znamená?

10:30	You see that means:	Vidíte, znamená to:

10:31	me is more important	Ja som dôležitejší, ako
	than the person who is dead.	osoba, ktorá zomrela.

10:35	S: And so you didn't give your	S: A tak nevenovali svoju
	undivided attention to that person.	plnú pozornos tejto osobe.

10:38	K: I never loved that man!	K: Nikdy som nemilovala
	My child, I never loved that child.	toho muža!

10:40		Moje die a, nikdy som
		nemiloval to die a.

10:42	I never loved my wife	Nikdy som nemiloval moju ženu,
	or husband, sister.	alebo muža, sestru.

10:49	In this state of awareness	V tomto stave uvedomovania si
	there is the discovery	je objav,

10:54	that love never existed.	že láska nikdy neexistovala.

10:59	S: Or, in the discovery of	S: Alebo v objave

11:03	of a sorrow which is associated	smútku, ktorý som spojil
	with grief	so žia¾om

11:07	or with separation or with fear,	alebo oddelením alebo strachom,
	there is the discovery	je aj objav

11:11	that love has been horribly	že láska je hrozne obmedzená,
	limited, if it existed at all.	ak vôbec nejaká existovala.

11:14	K: I didn't have it!	K: Nemal som ju!
	I couldn't have it!	Nemohol som ju ma !

11:16	Love means	Láska znamená nieèo úplne iné.
	something entirely different.

11:20	So, now there is tremendous energy	Tak, teraz tu panuje obrovská energia
	– you follow, sir? – no escape,	- sledujete, pane? - žiadny únik,

11:26	no fear, no sense of self-pity,	žiadny strach, žiadna seba¾útos ,
	concern about myself, my anxiety...	strach o seba, moja úzkos ...

11:35	Out of this sense of sorrow	Z tohto pocitu smútku
	there is this bubbling energy	je táto bublajúca energia

11:44	which is really love.	èo je naozaj láska.

11:48	S: Which is really love.	S: Èo je ozajstná láska.
	So now we have discovered that	Takže teraz sme zistili, že

11:52	when one gives his	keï èlovek venuje
	undivided attention to another…	pozornos druhému...

11:56	K: No! I have not given my attention	K: Nie! Nie, nevenoval som pozornos
	to the person who is dead,	osobe ktorá je màtva.

12:01	my father, my son, my brother.	môjmu otcovi, synovi, bratovi.

12:03	There has been attention	Bola to pozornos venovaná
	to the state of my mind	stavu mojej mysle,

12:06	the mind which says,	mysle ktorá vraví:
	'I suffer' !	Trpím!

12:12	S: Yes, but we have been trying to	S: Áno, ale my sa pokúšame zisti ,
	examine what 'I suffer' means	èo znamená "utrpenie"

12:18	in the context of what	v kontexte s tým, èo to znamená
	choiceless attention means.	"bezvýhradná pozornos ".

12:22	K: Yes. So I find	K: Áno. Takže zis ujem, že láska
	love is... a total attention.	znamená...bezvýhradnú pozornos .

12:32	S: Love is a total attention.	S: Láska je úplná pozornos .

12:34	K: Without any division.	K: Bez akéhoko¾vek rozdelenia.

12:38	I think this is really	Myslím si, že toto je naozaj
	important because	dôležité, pretože

12:40	you see, sir, for us, love is	vidíte, pane, pre nás je láska
	pleasure – sexual, other ways –	potešenie - sexuálne, iné -

12:48	love is pleasure, and love is fear,	láska je potešenie, a láska je strach,
	love is jealousy,	láska je žiarlivos ,

12:52	love is possessiveness, domination,	láska je vlastníctvo, nadvláda,
	aggression – you follow?	agresia - sledujete?

12:56	We use that word	Používame toto slovo, na
	to cover up all this:	toto všetko:

12:59	love of God, love of man,	láska k Bohu, láska k mužovi,
	love of country, and so on.	láska k zemi, atï.

13:05	All that is the love of	To všetko je láska mojich
	my concern about myself.	obáv o mòa samého.

13:14	S: Yes, all of that is self-love.	S: Áno, to všetko je sebeláska.
	K: Obviously.	K. Oèividne.

13:16	S: But it's the me that is being loved	S: Ale to som ja, ktorý je milovaný
	not the self that is being loved.	nie moje "ja", ktoré je milované.

13:20	K: That's no love.	K: To nie je láska.
	That's a tremendous discovery.	To je ohromný objav.

13:25	That requires great honesty	Vyžaduje to ve¾kú úprimnos
	to say,	poveda :

13:30	'By Jove, I've never really	"Jove, nikdy som
	loved anybody.'	nikoho nemilovala. "

13:33	I pretended, I've exploited, I have	Predstierala som, zneužívala som,
	adjusted myself to somebody	prispôsobila som sa niekomu,

13:41	but the fact that I've never	ale faktom je, že som nikdy
	known what it means to love.	nepoznala, èo je to láska.

13:46	That's a tremendous honesty,	To je nesmierna poctivos , pane,
	sir,

13:51	to say that I thought I loved	poveda , že som si myslel, že milujem,
	and I never found it.	a nikdy som to nenašiel.

13:56	Now I've come upon something	Teraz sa dostávam k nieèomu,
	which is real!	èo je skutoèné!

14:00	Which is, I've watched what is	Èo je: Pozoroval som to èo je,
	and moved from there.	a pohol som sa ïalej.

14:05	There is an awareness of what is	Je v tom vedomie toho èo je,
	and that awareness moves	a to vedomie sa pohybuje

14:10	– it is a living thing –	- je to žijúca vec -
	it doesn't come to a conclusion.	nekonèí to.

14:17	S: Now why is it that in our attempt	S: A preèo je to tak, že v našej snahe
	to pursue the question of	skúma túto otázku

14:26	undivided attention, or choiceless	sústredenú pozornos , alebo pozornos
	attention, or simple seeing	bez výberu, alebo jednoducho vidie

14:31	that we very naturally	že sme ve¾mi jednoducho
	slipped into the question	vk¾zli do otázky

14:36	and it's not really logical,	a naozaj to nie je logické,
	it's very naturally	je to ve¾mi prirodzené,

14:39	slipped into the question of	skåzli do otázky jednoducho
	simple loving, as opposed to	milova , naproti

14:44	fictitious or fraudulent	fiktívnej alebo podvodnej
	loving or conditioned loving.	láske alebo podmienenej láske.

14:48	There must be something about the	Musí by nieèo na tom
	loving and the seeing process	procese milova a vidie

14:53	which is so similar that we	ktorý je taký podobný, že
	can slip from seeing to loving	môžeme skåznu od videnia k láske

15:00	and really be discussing the	a v skutoènosti diskutova o tej
	same thing. And as we move

15:03		istej veci. A keï ideme
		dobrým smerom,

15:06	well, move is not a good word	pohyb nie je to správe slovo.
	K: No, I understand, sir.	K: Nie, rozumiem pane.

15:09	S: as we become aware of…	S: Ako si uvedomujeme...
	as we develop	ako vyvýjame

15:14	this undivided attention,	túto bezhraniènú pozornos ,
	this choiceless awareness…	túto vo¾bu bez výberu...

15:17	K: If I may suggest, don't use	K: Ak môžem navrhnú , nepoužívajte
	the word – I humbly suggest –	slovo - skromne navrhujem -

15:22	'develop'. That means time.	"vyvíjame". To znamená èas.
	Sir, be aware!	Pane, "uvedomujeme si!"

15:27	S: Be aware. We are struggling	S: Uvedomujeme si. Bojujeme
	with words, because…	so slovami, pretože ...

15:30	K: Be aware of the carpet	K: Uvedomujete si koberec,
	– the colour, the shape, the form,	farbu, tvar, formu,

15:35	be aware of that. Don't say,	uvedomujete si to. Nehovorte:
	'I like, don't like, this is good'	Páèi sa mi, nepáèi sa mi, to je dobré!

15:40	just be aware of it,	Len si to uvedomujte,
	and then, from that,	a potom, z toho,

15:43	grows the flame of awareness,	vzniká plameò uvedomovania si,
	if one can so call it.	ak to tak môžem poveda .

15:51	S: Haven't you said the same thing	S: Nehovorili ste to isté, inými
	in different words	slovami,

15:54	by saying, 'Be aware of the other,	keï ste hovorili: "Vnímajte druhých,
	of the carpet, of the tree,	koberec, strom,

16:00	of the universe	vesmír, v ktorom
	within which you live?'	žijete?"

16:05	And then you translate into	A potom to prenesiete
	another level of perception	do iného levelu vnímania

16:10	and you say, 'Love the carpet,	a hovoríte: Milujte koberec,
	love the tree, love the universe.'	milujte strom, milujte vesmír.

16:15	And you don't feel that there's	A necítite že je rozdiel medzi
	a difference between being aware	tým, keï vnímate

16:18	or seeing undividedly and loving	alebo vidíte a keï milujete
	undividedly or unconditionally.	bez rozdielu, nepodmienene?

16:23	K: No, sir, when you are so aware,	K: Nie, pane, keï si uvedomujete,
	there is that quality of love.	tam je taká kvalita lásky.

16:26	You don't have to say	Nepotrebujete hovori
	'be or not be' – it is there.	by , èi neby - je to tam!

16:29	It is like a perfume	Ja to ako vôòa kvetu
	in a flower – it is there!	- je tam!

16:33	S: The two are… they're not	S: Tie dve sú...neexistujú dve
	different sides of the same coin.	strany jednej mince.

16:36	They're the same coin.	Je to tá istá minca.
	K: It is the same thing, same coin.	K: Je to tá istá vec. Tá istá minca.

16:39	S: With no sides at all. Yes. So that	S: Bez akýchko¾vek strán.
	then to see in this undivided way,	Áno. Takže

16:42		potom vidíte týmto
		nedelite¾ným spôsobom,

16:46	choiceless way, and to	spôsobom bez výberu, a milova
	love in this choiceless way	týmto spôsobom bez výberu

16:50	must be one and	musí by jedna a tá istá
	the same thing.	vec.

16:52	K: It is, sir,	K: Je pane, ale problémom je,
	but the difficulty is

16:55	we are so eager	že tak túžime po tejto veci,
	to get this thing

17:00	that we lose the real thread of it,	že strácame pravú ni ,
	the beauty of it.	jej krásu.

17:06	S: Now suppose that we were to move	S: Predstavme si, že posunieme
	our discussion one more step	našu diskusiu ešte o jeden krok,

17:10	or maybe another step because	alebo možno o ïalší krok, pretože
	there's not more, and say that	viac ich nie je, a povedzme, že

17:16	as far as we can perceive,	pokia¾ vnímame,
	to be aware and to love	uvedomujeme si a milujeme

17:23	are one and the same thing.	to je jedna a tá istá vec.

17:26	Could we move	Mohli by sme sa pohnú o krok
	one step further and say	a poveda ,

17:30	to be is the same	existova je to isté ako
	as to see and to love?	vidie a milova ?

17:33	K: No, what do you mean by,	K: Nie! Èo myslíte tým,
	if I may ask, the word 'to be'?	ak sa smiem pýta , slovom "by "?

17:38	Everybody says, 'I am.' The whole	Každý hovorí: "Ja som." Celá
	young generation at present says	mladá generácia v súèasnosti hovorí

17:43	'I want to be'.	'Chcem by '.
	What does that mean?	Èo to znamená?

17:46	S: I'm sure it means very little.	S: Som si istý,
		že to znamená ve¾mi málo.

17:48	I think it means be active	Myslím si, že to znamená by aktívny
	or be possessive.	alebo by vlastnícky.

17:52	K: Yes, be possessive,	K: Áno. By vlastnícky,
	be angry, be violent.	zlostný, by násilný.

17:53	I am – that is what I am.	Som - to je to, èo som.

17:56	S: So then the word 'to be' has a	S: Takže slovo "by "má
	connotation about it, associated	nejakú spojitos , spája sa

17:59	with activity, which can only	s aktivitou, ktorá môže vznika
	follow from this inner energy	z tejto energie

18:03	which is what to be means.	èo slovo "by ", znamená.

18:05	K: So, sir, all this	K: Takže pane, toto všetko nás
	brings us to a question:	vedie k otázke:

18:09	whether man can change at all.	èi sa èlovek vôbec môže zmeni ?
	That is the fundamental…	To je podstatné...

18:16	It seems to me that's one of the	Zdá sa mi, že je to jedna
	major questions in the present world.	z najpodstatnejších

18:20		otázok v súèasnom svete.

18:24	The structure and the nature	Štruktúra a povaha
	of human beings have to change.	¾udských bytostí sa musí zmeni .

18:30	S: Well, when you use words	S: Teda, keï používate slová
	like 'structure' and 'nature'	ako "štruktúra" a "povaha"

18:34	those mean categories to me.	pre mòa to znamená kategórie.
	K: No, the way he lives.	K: Nie, spôsob akým žije.

18:37	S: Can man's lifestyle change?	S: Dá sa zmeni životný štýl èloveka?

18:39	K: Yes. The way he lives,	K: Áno. Spôsob, akým žijem,
	the appalling pettiness, the ugliness	desivé banality, škaredos ,

18:44	the violence, you know,	násilie, viete,
	what is going on.	to èo sa deje.

18:48	S: I would say that there should be	S: Povedal by som, že by nemalo
	nothing but despair	by niè, len zúfalstvo

18:51	relative to the question of change,	èo sa týka zmeny,

18:54	if the change we're dealing with	ak tá zmena, ktorou sa zaoberáme,
		by

18:57	was the creation of new categories	bolo vytvorenie nových kategórií
	to replace old categories.	namiesto starých.

19:01	K: No, no, I don't mean that.	K: Nie, nie. Nemyslím to!

19:03	S: If on the other hand we were	S: Ak by sme sa, na druhej strane,
	dealing with the question of	zaoberali otázkou

19:05	changing from the without	meni sa z vonka
	to the within – can men do this? –	do vnútra - môžu to ¾udia urobi ? -

19:09	from the 'to do' to the 'to be',	z "robi " na "by "
	from the pretence of love to love,	z predstierania lásky k láske,

19:15	from the perception of categories	z vnímania kategórií
	to seeing,	na videnie,

19:18	can men change	môže sa èlovek zmeni
	in that direction?	týmto spôsobom?

19:20	I would have to ask	Musel by som sa spýta
	– do men?	- robia to ¾udia?

19:21	And they do! You have done it.	A robia to! Vy ste to spravili.
	I have done it.	Ja som to spravil.

19:25	K: Sir, I mean…	K: Pane, myslím si...

19:27	S: Will men do it?	S: Urobia to ¾udia?

19:30	K: Because man has lived	K: Pretože èlovek žije,
	as he has lived,	ako žije,

19:33	with such appalling brutality,	s takou otrasnou brutalitou,
	such a deception,	takým klamstvom,

19:39	such lies, hypocrisy	takými lžami, pokrytectvom,
	and all the rest of it.	a tým všetkým.

19:46	If I have a son, a brother,	Ak mám syna, brata,

19:50	that's my concern,	starám sa,
	my responsibility.	cítim zodpovednos .

19:54	Not to change him	Nebudem ho meni , ale vidie
	but to see what it is.	ho takého, aký je.

20:02	I don't want him to imitate me	Nechcem, aby ma napodobòoval
	or conform to my pattern	alebo aby sa mi prispôsoboval,

20:05	which is absurd, or my belief	èo je absurdné, alebo mojej viere.
	– I have none of that.	Niè z toho!

20:09	So I say, 'Look, how is it possible	Takže hovorím: Pozrime sa, ako je možné
	for a human being to change?'	zmeni ¾udskú bytos .

20:17	Change not into	Nemeni na
	a particular pattern,	nejaký vzor.

20:20	to bring about a total	Ale prinies nejakú
	psychological revolution.	totálnu psychologickú zmenu.

20:26	S: If I were to start some place,	S: Ak by sme zaèínali na nejakom
	Krishnaji, I believe I would	mieste Krishnaji, verím, že by som

20:29	start with you. Not because	zaèal s vami. Nie preto, že si myslím,
	I think you need changing	že potrebujete zmenu,

20:34	because I don't, nor because	lebo si to nemyslím, ani preto, že
	I think you would want to change

20:37		si nemyslím, že by ste sa
		chceli zmeni

20:39	but because I think you want	ale pretože si myslím, že chcete uèi ,
	to teach, you want to share.	chcete to zdie¾a .

20:44	You have received so much joy	Získali ste už to¾ko radosti
	from understanding	z pochopenia

20:47	and from loving that	a z lásky, že to z vás vyžaruje.
	this radiates from within you.

20:52	Now, if you wanted to teach	Teraz, ak by ste chceli niekoho uèi ,
	someone that there's more

20:57	to be seen than is seen	že sa dá vidie ako to, èo vidíme
	– and the more is not quantitative	- a to viacej nie je v kvantite

21:02	but in depth – maybe I would want	ale v håbke - možno by som chcel,
	to change you in this direction	aby ste rozmýš¾ali týmto smerom,

21:10	that when you speak of the world	keï hovoríte o svete
	and its conflict and its tensions,	a jeho konflikte a napätí,

21:15	and its violence, and its hypocrisy,	a jeho násilí a pokrytectve,
	that you may also	že si môžete tiež

21:20	address yourself to another question	položi druhú otázku,

21:23	– which I'm sure you have done	- èo si myslím, že ste aj urobili,
	but don't speak of it –	ale nehovoríte o tom -

21:27	not only the endurance of	nielen trvanie veèného
	inner conflict or exterior conflict	vnútorného konfliktu

21:30		alebo vonkajšieho konfliktu,

21:34	but the endurance of	ale aj trvanie vnútornej radosti
	inner joy and exterior joy.	a vonkajšej radosti.

21:38	K: Sir, now wait a minute.	K: Pane, poèkajte trošku.

21:40	S: These are always there when you	S: Sú vždy tam, keï
	talk but they are not expressed.	hovoríte, ale neukazujete ich.

21:43	K: When does joy come?	K: Kedy prichádza rados ?

21:47	When I don't seek it.	Keï ju neh¾adám.
	I mean, it happens!	Myslím tým, stáva sa to.

21:54	I don't have to cultivate it,	Nemusím sa o òu stara , myse¾
	the mind hasn't to pursue it.	sa za òou nemusí naháòa .

22:02	S: Yes, the mind cannot	S: Áno. Myse¾ sa nevie
	pursue joy.	naháòa za rados ou.

22:06	K: Therefore I have to understand…	K: Preto musím pochopi ...
	an understanding must take place	musí nasta pochopenie

22:15	of what is pleasure and what	toho, èo je potešenie
	is joy. That's where we mix…	a èo je rados . To si pletieme...

22:21	S: We mix our levels, yes.	S: Pletieme si pojmy, áno.

22:24	K: To understand joy is more important	K: Pochopi rados je ove¾a dôležitejšie
	than to understand pleasure	ako pochopi potešenie.

22:30	sorry – to understand pleasure	Prepáète - pochopi potešenie
	is far more important	je ove¾a dôležitejšie

22:34	than to understand joy.	než pochopi rados .

22:36	Because we want pleasure,	Pretože chceme potešenie,
	we pursue pleasure.	naháòame sa za potešením.

22:42	Everything is our pleasure	Všetko je naše potešenie
	– the whole moral	- celá morálna

22:47	social structure is based	sociálna štruktúra sa zakladá
	on this enormous pleasure.	na tomto enormnom potešení.

22:54	And pleasure does breed fear,	A potešenie plodí strach,
	insecurity, and all the rest of it.	neistotu a celý ten zbytok.

22:59	Now, in the understanding of	Teraz, po pochopení potešenia
	pleasure, the other thing comes.	prichádza ïalšia vec.

23:03	You don't have to talk about it. The	Nemusíte o tom hovori . Tá vec
	other thing flows, like a fountain.	teèie ako fontána.

23:08	You don't even call it joy,	Ani jej nehovoríte rados ,
	it's ecstasy, something…	je to extáza, nieèo ...

23:14	S: Are you saying then that	S: Hovoríte, že
	in the pursuit of fear	v snahe uniknú strachu

23:18	through escape,	cez únik,
	or in the pursuit of…	alebo v naháòaní sa za...

23:22	K: …joy, I mean pleasure.	K: ...rados ou, myslím potešením.

23:24	S: Or in the pursuit of pleasure	S: Alebo v naháòaní sa za rozkošou
	– in both pursuits we find death	- v oboch prípadoch nájdeme smr

23:29	and also a death to the	a taktiež smr
	dissipation of energy	v rozptýlení energie

23:32	that keeps us from being joyous.	ktoré nám bránia by radostný.
	K: That's right, that's right.	K: To je pravda, to je pravda.

23:35	S: And from being joyous, and seeing,	S: A od toho by radostný, vidie
	and being loving, or simply being	by milujúci, alebo jednoducho by ,

23:40	it's all the same thing.	je to to isté.

23:44	K: You see, through negation	K: Vidíte. Cez negáciu k pozitívnemu.
	the positive is.

23:50	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

23:51	K: Not the positive. Assert the	K: Nie pozitívnemu...presadzovaním
	positive is to negate the real.	pozitívneho je negova realitu.

24:00	S: But as we have said before	S: Ale ako sme už povedali predtým,

24:02	to negate the categories	negova kategórie v skutoènosti
	is really not	nie je

24:07	what we are dealing with,	to, s èím bojujme,
	nor are we dealing with	nie s èím sa zaoberáme,

24:10	the negation of seeing simply.	negáciou vidie jednoducho.
	We're dealing with	Bojujeme s

24:14	the negation of all of those	negovaním všetkých tých prekážok,
	obstacles, like pleasure, to joy.	od potešenia k radosti.

24:19	Because unless you negate	Pretože pokia¾ nenegujete potešenie,
	pleasure you will never be joyous.	nikdy nebudete radostný.

24:22	And when you're joyous	A keï ste radostný,
	you're also quite pleasurable.	ste tiež celkom príjemný.

24:24	K: You don't talk about it.	K: Nehovorte o tom.
	The moment you're conscious	V okamihu, keï si to uvedomíte,

24:27	that you're joyous, it goes.	že ste veselý, je to preè.

24:30	Like being happy, and	Ako keï ste š astný a hovoríte:
	you say, 'How happy I am!'	Aký som s astný!

24:34	It becomes nonsense	Je to nezmysel, keï hovoríte:
	when you say, 'How happy I am!'	"Aký som š astný!"

24:38	S: Yes, because now	S: Áno, pretože teraz
	you've rationalized it	ste si to zracionalizovali,

24:40	and put it in a category,	a dali do kategórie,
	now it becomes something	teraz sa to stáva nieèím,

24:42	to speculate about	nad èím môžete špekulova ,
	rather than do, to be.	viacej než tým by .

24:45	At the same time, since we are	V rovnakom èase, pretože to
	pursuing as deeply as we can…	sledujeme tak podrobne, ako vieme ...

24:54	pursuing seeing and	sledujúc videnie a
	understanding and loving	pochopenie a milovanie

24:58	or this undivided attention,	alebo túto sústredenú pozornos ,
	since we're pursuing that	pretože to sledujeme,

25:01	and we found that	a my sme zistili, že to
	one cannot pursue it	nemožno sledova

25:04	except by negating fear	s výnimkou negácie strachu
	or negating pleasure…	alebo negovaním potešenia ...

25:07	K: Yes, sir. Understanding	K: Áno, pane. Pochopi
	pleasure	potešenie,

25:10	understanding the	pochopi
	whole nature of pleasure.	celá podstatu potešenia.

25:13	S: Then we must ask ourselves,	S: Tak sa musíme pýta sami seba,
	if these are not the avenues	èi toto nie sú cesty

25:17	to seeing or loving or being –	na to, ako vidie , alebo milova
	and I suppose we will ultimately	alebo by -

25:20		a myslím, že nakoniec

25:23	get to the question	sa dostaneme k otázke
	of being, or being one,	bytia, alebo bytia ako jeden,

25:27	we may get to that question	môžeme sa dosta k tejto otázke
	because we want to discover that	pretože chceme zisti èi

25:32	you are one with the world	ste v jednote so svetom ,
	and the world is one with you	a svet je v jednote s vami,

25:36	and you are one with myself	a ja som jedno sám so sebou
	and I am one with you:	a ja som jedno s vami.

25:39	we want to discover that.	To chceme objavi .
	And we've seen	A videli sme,

25:41	that seeing must take place,	že to videnie sa musí udia ,
	and loving must take place,	a že musí nasta láska,

25:46	an awareness of being must take place	uvedomovanie si seba musí nasta
	– we've seen what to do	- videli sme, èo robi

25:49	to get rid of	ako sa zbavi toho, èo sa nám
	what gets in the way	stavia do cesty,

25:52	of the most exhilarating of all	najpovznášajucejšie zo všetkých
	experiences or realities,	zážitkov a skutoèností,

25:56	the reality of just being	realita len bytia
	– I am, enough.	- Ja som, staèí.

25:59	I don't need these things to be	Nepotrebujem tie veci na to,
	– here I am.	aby som bol - Som!

26:03	Then what would you think	Èo si myslíte, že sa potom stane?
	would be the next step

26:05	– and we're not talking	- a teraz nehovoríme o
	about process or method now –	procese alebo metóde -

26:09	what would you perceive	èo si myslíte, že bude nasledova ?
	would be the next step?

26:11	K: Next step of what?	K: Ïalší krok èoho?
	S: In the development…	S: Vo vývoji...

26:15	K: From what?	K: Z èoho?

26:17	S: From this undivided attention	S: Z tejto plnej pozornosti
	that we discussed earlier	o ktorej sme hovorili predtým

26:20	and from this loving which we	a z tejto lásky, o ktorej sme
	found to be the same as attention	zistili, že je rovnaká ako pozornos ,

26:25	choiceless attention, and	bezvýhradná pozornos , a
	from this being which we found	z tohto bytia, ktoré sme zistili, že

26:29	to be the same as loving	je rovnaké ako láska, videnie
	and seeing or understanding	a pochopenie

26:35	and now we're	a teraz sa snažíme
	trying to pursue your…	sledova vašu...

26:39	K: What takes place next?	K: Èo sa odohrá ïalej?
	What happens?	Èo sa deje?

26:41	S: …experience of – I don't like	S: ... skúsenos z - nerád
	to use the word 'oneness'	používam slovo "Jednota"

26:45	because that gets us at the end	pretože nás to dostane na koniec
	before we go to the middle thing	skôr než sa dostaneme k ïalšej veci,

26:48	but what does one do next	ale èo robí èlovek ïalej,
	after one has seen,	potom èo uvidel,

26:52	and has loved and has been?	a miloval a bol?

26:56	K: One lives, sir.	K: Èlovek žije, pane.
	S: One lives.	S: Èlovek žije.

26:58	So that to live is the same as to	Takže ži je to isté ako
	love and to see, in any real sense.	milova a vidie , v skutoènosti.

27:03	K: But it means, sir,	K: Ale to znamená, v skutoènosti
	the understanding of death.	pane, chápanie smrti.

27:10	S: The understanding of death.	S: Chápanie smrti.

27:12	K: Death. Because	K: Smrti. Pretože

27:16	to love, one must die.	aby èlovek miloval,
		musí zomrie .

27:19	S: Unquestionably.	S: Nepochybne.

27:21	K: So there must be the investigation,	K: Takže musí tam by skúmanie,
	the understanding	pochopenie

27:26	the awareness,	odpovedí,
	what it means to die.	èo znamená zomrie .

27:31	Without that there is no love.	Bez toho nie je láska.

27:34	S: But could not this be a fiction,	S: Ale nemôže to by fikcia,
	because who is to tell us	pretože kto nám povie

27:37	what it's like to die?	aké to je umiera ?
	K: We're going to find out.	K: Ideme to zisti .

27:40	S: Find, good.	S: V poriadku, dobre.
	K: I don't want anybody to tell me,	K: Nechcem, aby mi to niekto povedal,

27:44	because that means authority.	lebo to znamená autoritu.

27:46	S: Well, it means dead people,	S: To potom znamená màtvi,
	who can't speak.	ktorí nemôžu hovori .

27:48	K: Not only that.	K: Nie len to.

27:52	The whole Asiatic world believes	Ako viete, celý ázijský svet verí
	in reincarnation, as you know,	v reinkarnáciu,

27:59	and, in the Christian world,	a v kres anskom svete
	the resurrection and so on.	vo vzkriesenie a tak ïalej.

28:05	To find this out one must	Aby to èlovek zistil, musí
	investigate if there is	skúma , èi existuje

28:10	any permanent thing in me	akéko¾vek trvalá vec vo mne,
	that reincarnates,	ktorá sa reinkarnuje,

28:17	that is reborn, resurrected,	že sa znovuzrodí, vstane z màtvych,
	one must enquire	èlovek sa musí pýta

28:22	into this question,	na otázku, èi je v nás
	if there is anything permanent.	nieèo permanentné.

28:27	Permanent?	Permanentné?
	Nothing is permanent!	Niè nie je trvalé!

28:31	The carpets go, all the structure,	Koberce sa ošúchajú, celá štruktúra,
	the technological thing,	technologická vec,

28:36	all the things man has put together	Všetko èo èlovek zložil
	is... in a flux.	je ... v pohybe.

28:43	S: You are not suggesting	S: Nenaznaèujete,
	that the measure is permanent.	že stav je trvalý.

28:47	You are not suggesting that	S: Nenaznaèujete,
	the measure is permanent.	že ten stav je trvalý.

28:49	K: Measure?	K: Stav?
	S: The measure.	S: Stav.

28:52	You were born and you have lived	Narodil si sa, žiješ
	and you will die,	a zomrieš,

28:57	and this will take you	a to bude trva
	a certain number of years.	nieko¾ko rokov.

28:59	K: Seventy years, thirty years,	K: Sedemdesiat rokov, tridsa rokov,
	twenty years, whatever it is.	dvadsa rokov, ko¾koko¾vek.

29:01	S: Is the measure real	S: Je stav skutoèný,
	or are you real?	alebo ste skutoèný?

29:03	K: No, no. I am not talking	K: Nie, nie. Nehovorím
	in terms of measure.	o stave.

29:06	S: So then if the measure isn't real	S: Takže ak stav nie je skutoèný
	but something external to you	ale znamená pre vás nieèo mimo,

29:11	then do we have a right to say	máte právo hovori ,
	that you end simply?	že jednoducho skonèíte?

29:16	K: We are coming to that.	K: Dostávam sa k tomu.

29:18	You know,	Viete, celý Grécky svet,
	the whole Greek world

29:24	thought in terms	uvažuje v termínoch stavu.
	of measurement.

29:27	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

29:28	K: And the whole Western world	K: A celý západný svet
	is based on measurement.	je založený na meraní.

29:32	And the Eastern world said,	A východný svet povedal,
	measure is illusion.	stav je ilúzia.

29:36	And they went into other kind of…	A prešli k inému druhu ...
	S: …measures.	S: ... stavu.

29:40	K: Yes, other kind of measure	K: Áno, iný druh stavu
	and they called it immeasurable.	a nazvali ho nesmierny.

29:44	Now, I am saying, sir	Ja teraz hovorím, pane:

29:49	life, living, as we now live,	život, žitie, ako dnes žijeme,
	is a conflict.	je konflikt.

29:56	What we call love	To, èomu hovoríme láska,
	is the pursuit of pleasure.	je naháòanie sa za potešením.

30:00	What we call death is an	To, èo nazývame smr , je
	avoidance, is fear, dread of it.	vyhýbanie sa, je strach, hrôza z nej.

30:05	And being afraid, so completely,	A bá sa, tak úplne,
	of such an ending	takéhoto ukonèenia

30:10	we have reincarnation theory,	máme teóriu reinkarnácie,
	various other theories	rôzne iné teórie

30:13	which give us great satisfaction,	èo nám dáva ve¾kú spokojnos ,
	great comfort.	ve¾kú pohodu.

30:17	And that is not an answer.	A to nie je odpoveï.

30:19	S: It keeps us from	S: To nás odpútava od reality.
	seeing the reality.

30:21	K: So, negate all that.	K: Tak to znegujme!

30:26	So there must be	Takže tam musí by
	the understanding of death.	pochopenie smrti.

30:30	What is death? There is	Èo je smr ? Je to
	the physiological ending.	fyziologický koniec?

30:36	We don't mind that.	To nám nevadí.
	We all see death everywhere.	Smr vidíme všade.

30:42	But what human beings	Ale èoho sa ¾udia boja
	are concerned with

30:47	is the psychological	je psychologický koniec.
	ending

30:49	the 'me' ending – the me which	Koniec JA - toho JA, ktoré
	says, 'I own this house'	hovorí:" Ja vlastním tento dom,

30:53	my property, my wife,	môj majetok, moju ženu, môjho
	my husband, my knowledge;	muža, moje vedomosti.

30:57	I am going to lose all that,	To všetko stratím,
	therefore I don't want to lose.	preto to nechcem strati .

31:01	The known is more	To èo poznám je ove¾a atraktívnejšie,
	attractive than the unknown.	než to, èo nepoznám.

31:06	The known is the factor of fear.	Znalos je faktor strachu
	S: In a rational world.	S: V racionálnom svete.

31:12	K: We are taking, looking at it.	K: Vnímame ho, pozeráme sa naò.
	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

31:15	K: So I have to understand what	K: Takže musím pochopi , èo
	does death mean? Does it mean	znamená smr ? Znamená to,

31:21	that there is a permanent entity	že je tu stála entita
	– call it the soul,	- nazývaná duša,

31:27	the Hindus call it the atman,	hinduisti jej hovoria Atman.
	doesn't matter what name you give it –	Nezáleží na tom, aké meno jej dáte-

31:30	a permanent entity	stála entita,
	that never dies but evolves:	èo nikdy neumiera, ale sa vyvíja:

31:38	resurrected,	vzkriesi sa,
	reincarnated, in time.	reinkarnuje sa v èase.

31:44	Is there such thing	Existuje nieèo také
	as permanent entity?	ako trvalá entita?

31:48	Not a theory	Nie teória,

31:51	not a speculative assertion,	nie špekulatívne tvrdenie èi
	'There is or there is not'	"existuje, alebo neexistuje"

31:55	but to find out for oneself	ale zisti sám,
	if there is a permanent entity,	èi existuje stála entita,

32:00	the 'me' that says,	to "JA", ktoré hovorí,
	'I must survive.'	"Musím preži ."

32:05	Therefore I must have future lives,	Preto musím ma budúce životy,
	whether in heaven or doesn't matter.	èi už v nebi, alebo to je jedno.

32:11	Is there such thing?	Existuje taká vec?
	Which is psychologically.	Z psychologického h¾adiska?

32:19	Which thought has put together	Èo si myse¾ poskladala dokopy
	as the 'me'.	ako"JA".

32:24	S: I cannot conceive of there being	S: Neviem si predstavi , že existuje
	a permanent entity associated	trvalá entita spojená

32:28	with what we call the me.	s tým, èo nazývame"JA."

32:30	K: Obviously.	K: Samozrejme.
	S: Obviously, yes.	S: Samozrejme, áno.

32:32	K: Then is there a permanent	K: Ïalej, existuje okrem toho
	me apart from that?	permanetné "JA"?

32:35	S: But then we can ask the	S: Ale potom sa môžeme pýta ,
	question – is there something	èi existuje nieèo

32:39	immeasurable about	vo mne, èo sa nedá zmera ?
	me, apart from that?

32:43	K: The moment you say, 'The me is the	K: V okamihu, keï poviete:
	immeasurable' then I am back again.	"Moje "JA" je

32:45		nesmierne "potom ste zase spä .

32:47	S: You are back again, right.	S: Ste zase spä , áno.
	Apart from the self, the not me.	Okrem mòa, nie ja.

32:51	K: I am going to find out.	K: Idem to zisti .
	S: Yes. Now we must pursue that.	S: Áno. Teraz sa o to usilujem.

32:54	K: That's it. There must be	K: To je ono. Musí tu by
	discovery of whether there is	objav, èi existuje

32:59	the immeasurable or not.	to nesmierne, alebo nie.
	Not: 'there is' or 'there is not',	Nie: existuje, alebo neexistuje,

33:04	one must come upon it,	èlovek na to musí prís ,
	the mind must come upon it.	myse¾ na to musí prís .

33:07	So, there is no permanent self	Takže neexistuje trvalé JA",
	– higher, lower – no permanency.	- vyššie, nižšie - žiadna stálos .

33:14	Therefore what is, then, death?	Potom, èo je to smr ?

33:20	Physically, biologically,	Fyzicky, biologicky,
	there is death.	smr existuje.

33:25	S: This we all understand.	S: Toto všetci chápeme.
	We see it all the time.	Vidíme to po celú dobu.

33:27	K: Everything goes.	K: Všetko je pominute¾né.

33:30	What one is afraid of is the	Èoho sa èlovek bojí je
	psychological accumulation	psychologická akumulácia

33:38	in relationship of every form of	vo vz ahu každej formy
	image, knowledge, function	predstavy, vedomostí, fungovania

33:45	– that's what we	- to je to, èo sa
	are frightened of losing.	bojíme strati .

33:48	That takes the form of the 'me'	Èo má podobu "ja"
	which is going to evolve,	ktoré sa bude vyvíja ,

33:53	become more and more perfect	bude stále viac a viac
	till it reaches heaven or whatever.	perfektnejsšie,

33:56		kým nedosiahne nebo alebo èo?

33:58	We see that is false.	Vidíme, že je to klamstvo.
	Then what is death?	Potom, èo je smr ?

34:04	S: You were suggesting that we can	S: Naznaèujete, že môžeme
	discover the meaning of the words	zisti význam slova

34:09	'to live' by looking for the	"ži " pri poh¾ade na
	meaning of the words 'to die.'	význam slova "zomrie ."

34:14	K: They are related.	K: Súvisia.
	S: They are related.	S: Súvisia.

34:16	Unquestionably they are related.	Nepochybne súvisia.
	K: They are related.	K: Súvisia.

34:18	S: And most religious writers in	S: A väèšina náboženských
	comparative religion have said,	spisovate¾ov hovorí,

34:21	that in order to live	že aby èlovek žil,
	one must die.	musí zomrie .

34:25	K: Sir, as I don't read these	K: Pane, preto neèítam tieto
	books or any of these things	knihy alebo niektoré z týchto vecí.

34:29	it is an actual fact.	To je skutoèný fakt.
	To live you must die.	Aby si žil, musíš zomrie .

34:32	Which means, dying means	Èo je, že umrie znamená,

34:34	dying every day	umiera každý deò
	to all the accumulations	všetkému, èo sme nahromadili

34:36	that you have gathered during the day,	poèas dòa,
	ending each day, dying,	konèi každý deò, umierajúc.

34:41	so that the mind is	Tak, že myse¾ je
	fresh every day, is new.	èerstvá každý deò, je nová.

34:46	S: Yes. Now, in order to pursue	S: Áno. Teraz, aby sme mohli
	the question of 'to live'	sledova otázku "žitia"

34:52	by looking at the question of	pri poh¾ade na otázku
	'to die' and looking at it finally.	"zomrie " a pozrie sa na to kompletne.

34:56	K: We do.	K: To robíme!

34:57	S: The ultimate death, the body	S: Na koneènú smr , keï sa telo
	has disintegrated in the grave.	rozpadá v hrobe.

35:01	K: The body is important,	K: Telo je dôležité.
	to look after it, care for it,	Stara sa oò, starostlivo,

35:05	and all the rest of it.	a celý zvyšok toho.
	S: But bury it when it is dead.	S: A pochova ho, keï je màtve.

35:07	K: Get rid of it.	K: Zbavte sa ho!
	Bury it, burn it – it's simpler.	Pochovajte, spá¾te - jednoduché.

35:12	S: Yes. Now suppose that we want to	S: Áno jednoduché. Teraz
	see what happens	predpokladajme, že chceme

35:15		vidie , èo sa stane,

35:19	when one dies in order to see	keï èlovek zomrie, aby bolo vidie
	what happens when one lives.	èo sa stane, keï èlovek žije.

35:23	That's what we're doing.	To je to, èo robíme.
	K: That's it. Therefore	OK: To je ono. Preto

35:24	I must first understand	musím najprv pochopi
	what it means to live	èo znamená ži .

35:27	not what it means to die.	Nie èo znamená zomrie !

35:31	One's life as it is	Nieèí život, taký aký je,
	is a turmoil – as it is.	je zmätok - aký je.

35:35	It is chaos, it is a mess, with	Je to chaos, je to bordel...
	all kinds of ideals, conclusions	všetky druhy ideálov, záverov

35:42	– it is a mess.	- je to neporiadok.

35:44	Now, if there is no order	Pokia¾ nie je poriadok
	in this mess	v tomto zmätku,

35:50	I can't understand what death is.	nemôžem pochopi , èo je smr .
	Because death is perfect order.	Pretože smr je dokonalý poriadok.

35:57	I don't know if you see.	Neviem, èi to vidíte.

35:59	S: What do you mean, because order to	S: Èo tým myslíte? Lebo poriadok
	me is something imposed from without.	pre mòa je nieèo dané zvonka.

36:02	K: Wait, sir, I'm coming to that.	K: Poèkajte, pane, dostávam sa k tomu.
	Death is perfect order	Smr je dokonalý poriadok

36:05	because it is	pretože to je
	the ending of disorder.	koniec neporiadku.

36:08	S: All right. I understand. Yes.	S: Dobre. Rozumiem. Áno.

36:14	K: So, there must be the ending	K: Takže, v mojom živote musí by
	of disorder in my living.	ukonèenie neporiadku.

36:22	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

36:23	K: And the ending of disorder	K: A koncom neporiadku
	is to be aware of what is disorder,	je by si vedomý toho, èo to je neporiadok.

36:29	choicelessly. What is disorder?	Bezvýhradne. Èo je neporiadok.
	My belief, my gods, my country,

36:32		Moje presvedèenie, môj boh,
		moja krajina,

36:35	my saying, 'This is better' – you	moje vnímanie: "Toto je lepšie" -
	follow? – all this terrible violence.

36:37		sledujete? - Toto všetko strašné
		násilie.

36:39	See it as it is. And when you see	Pozrie sa na to, ako to je. A keï vidíte
	it as it is without separation	ako to je, bez separácie,

36:46	you have energy	máte energiu
	– as we went into that.	- o tom sme už hovorili.

36:49	Then in perceiving disorder	Potom vnímame neporiadok
	there is order, which is harmony.	tam, kde je poriadok. Èo je harmónia.

36:57	Now, having established that –	Teraz, keï sme to zaviedli, vo zmysle
	established in the sense: see it,	- vidie to,

37:02	realize, be it – then death is	uvedomi si, by tým - potom smr
	not separate from order,	nie je odelená od poriadku.

37:12	they are together. Order	Sú spolu. Poriadok
	means the ending of disorder.	znamená koniec neporiadku.

37:20	S: Yes, and disorder or order, means	S: Áno, a neporiadok alebo poriadok,
	a consciousness of my presence	znamená

37:26		vedomie mojej prítomnosti

37:32	within you or your presence	vo vás alebo vašu prítomnos
	within me, or of our oneness.	vo mne, alebo našej jednoty.

37:36	We must pursue the question	Musíme sledova otázku
	of our becoming aware	nášho uvedomovania si

37:41	or giving this undivided	alebo venova bezvýhradnú
	attention or loving each other	pozornos alebo milova sa,

37:45	in which each other is eliminated.	èo sa navzájom vyluèuje.
	Now this is a duality.	Teraz je to dualita.

37:50	K: There is only a state...	K:To je len stav ...
	Look, sir, there is no you and me.	Pozrite sa, pane, nie ja a ty.

37:53	S: Yes.	S: Áno.
	K: I am not you and you are not me.	K: Nie som vy a vy nie ste ja.

37:57	There is that quality of awareness,	Tá kvalita vedomia,
	choiceless, that sense of attention,	bez výberu, tá pozornos ,

38:03	in which	v ktorom
	the me and the you ceases.	"ja" a "ty" prestane.

38:06	You don't say: 'It's unity',	Nehovorte: "Je to jednota"
	unity implies division.	jednota zahàòa rozdelenie.

38:13	S: But you are using unity in	S: Ale vy používate jednotu
	the mathematical sense now.	v matematickom zmysle.

38:16	I am using unity...	Ja používam jednotu ...
	Oneness to me implies	Jednota pre mòa znamená,

38:22	no, oneness to me means	nie, jednota je pre mòa to isté

38:24	the same as undivided attention.	ako plná pozornos .
	K: Yes.	K: Áno.

38:28	S: It doesn't mean division.	S: To neznamená rozdelenie.
	It doesn't presuppose division.	Nepredpokladá rozdelenie.

38:31	K: You see, sir,	K: Viete pane,
	we are discussing	hovoríme o tom,

38:36	what does it mean	èo znamená
	to live, to love and to die.	ži , milova a zomrie .

38:42	That is, the ending of disorder	To znamená, že ukonèenie neporiadku
	is the ending of death.	je ukonèenie smrti.

38:50	I don't know	Nie je v tom krása?
	there's great beauty in this.

38:55	In that state there is not you and me	V tomto stave neexistuje ty a ja
	– there is no division.	- nie je tam rozdelenie.

39:04	Then you can find out in that	Potom, v tom stave sa môžete dozvedie ,
	state what is the immeasurable.	èo je to nesmiernos .

39:09	Only then you can find out	Až potom sa to môžete dozvedie .
	not before,	Nie skôr,

39:12	because then it becomes merely	pretože potom sa to stane púhou
	speculation, or somebody says,	špekuláciou, alebo niekto hovorí,

39:15	'There is the immeasurable,there is	"Neexistuje , existuje
	no God or God' – that has no value.

39:18		žiadny boh alebo boh "
		- to nemá žiadnu hodnotu.

39:20	Only when there is this complete	Iba v prípade, že je to kompletný
	order, really mathematical order,

39:25		poriadok, naozaj matematický
		poriadok,

39:29	born out of disorder,	zrodený z neporiadku.
	not a blueprint imposed on disorder,	Nie nápad zrodený z poruchy.

39:36	then you will find out,	Potom to zistíte.
	then the mind discovers	Potom myse¾ zistí

39:41	whether there is	èi existuje
	an immeasurable or not.	nesmiernos alebo nie.

39:44	That, nobody can say,	Potom nikto nemôže poveda ,
	'yes' or 'no'.	'je alebo nie je'.

39:48	If you don't see it,	Ak to nevidíte,

39:51	if there is no perception	ak nevnímate
	of the immeasurable	nesmiernos ,

39:54	then it merely	potom sa to
	becomes conceptual.	stáva púhou koncepciou.

39:59	And most religions	A väèšina náboženstiev
	live on conceptual.	funguje na koncepcii.

40:05	S: Suppose we were to pursue this	Predpokladajme, že by sme sledovali
	question of order as the next step	otázku poriadku, ako ïalší krok

40:09	and ask ourselves, when we say	a pýtali sa sami seba, keï povieme
	things like this, that peace	veci, ako je táto, že mier

40:15	harmony, like the harmony of	harmónia, rovnako ako harmónia
	my fingers working together	prstov fungujúcich dokopy,

40:19	or like the harmony of you and I	alebo ako harmóniu vás a mòa
	in our dialogue, if we were to say

40:21		v našom rozhovore,
		ak by sme mali poveda ,

40:24	that peace or harmony	že mier a harmónia
	is the tranquillity	je pokoj

40:27	that's associated with	ktorý je spojený s
	order, and wanted to say	poriadkom, a niekto povedal,

40:31	and what more do we mean	èo to má viac spoloèného s poriadkom,
	by order than just orderliness?	než s usporiadanos ou?

40:38	K: Oh my! Orderliness	K: Ach! Bože! Usporiadanos
	every housewife has.	má každá gazdinka.

40:43	S: Yes, and can be in complete turmoil	S: Áno, a vo vnútri môže by
	in the possession of orderliness.	v úplnom zmätku.

40:46	K: Turmoil inside. We are	K: Zmätok vo vnútri. My hovoríme
	talking not only outward order	nielen o vankajšom poriadku,

40:49	but deep, inward order.	ale hlbokom, vnútornom poriadku.

40:51	S: Yes. Now, what does	S: Áno. A teraz, èo je
	this deep, inward	tak hlboko, vovnútri,

40:53	can I use the word	môžem použi slovo
	'ordination' rather than 'order'?	"zasvätenie" skôr ako "poriadok"?

40:56	K: Ordination	K: Zasvätenie
	– I don't know quite what…	- neviem presne èo ...

40:58	S: The ordination of one to another,	S: Zasvätenie, jedného k druhému,
	then remove the divisions.	potom odstránenie rozporov.

41:04	K: Ordination. If we understand	K: Zasvätenie. Ak to chápeme
	by that word order in the sense	v tom zmysle,

41:11	no conflict, no friction, no sense	žiadny rozpor, žiadne trenie,
	of me being bigger than you,	žiadny pocit

41:15		mòa, ktoré je väèšie než vy,

41:18	or no comparison,	žiadne porovnávanie,
	no sense of ambition, greed...	žiadne ambície, chamtivos ...

41:24	S: Possession	S: Vlastníctvo.

41:25	K: the real quality of mind which is	K: Skutoèná kvalita mysle, ktorá sa
	not concerned with all this bilge	nezaoberá všetkým týmto budovaním,

41:32	with all this nonsense	s týmito nezmyslami
	– then that is order.	- potom je to poriadok.

41:35	S: Yes. So then order and peace	S: Áno. Takže poriadok a mier
	and tranquillity, which is energy	a pokoj, èo je energia

41:42	in its fullness	vo svojej plnosti,
	rather than the lack of energy.	skôr než nedostatok energie.

41:47	It's not activity but it's the	nie je to èinnos , ale je to
	fullness of energy, so it's dynamic.

41:49		plnos energie,
		takže je to dynamické.

41:51	K: That is necessary, isn't it?	K: Je tak, èi nie, že
	When there is that complete order,	ak je kompletný poriadok,

41:57	the mind is no longer in conflict	myse¾ už nie je v rozpore
	therefore has abundance of energy.	a má preto dostatok energie.

42:04	S: And what has been done, by you or	S: A èo sme urobili, vy, alebo
	by me, as we relate to each other	ja, vzájomne,

42:09	in order to achieve this order	aby sme dosiahli tento poriadok
	that we are speaking about?	... o ktorom hovoríme?

42:18	K: You can't achieve it. Out of being	K: Nemôžete ho dosiahnu . Mimo
	aware of disorder, choicelessly,

42:21		uvedomovania si neporiadku,
		bezvýhradne,

42:25	order comes naturally.	poriadok prichádza prirodzene.

42:27	S: But is it true that many	S: Ale je pravda, že mnohí
	people do not achieve order?	¾udia nedosahujú poriadok?

42:32	And we were also	A my sme sa tiež
	asking the question:	pýtali na otázku:

42:33	'Can we change	"Môžeme zmeni
	disorder into order	neporiadok na poriadok,

42:36	or can we change death into life,	ako môžeme zmeni smr na život?
	can we change hate into love	Nenávis na lásku?

42:39	can we change blindness	Môžeme zmeni slepotu
	into seeing?'	na videnie? "

42:41	These are the questions	To sú otázky, ktorými
	we've been dealing with.	sa zaoberáme.

42:43	and we haven't answered	A neodpovedali sme na
	the question:	otázku:

42:45	can this change take place?	Môže táto zmena prebehnú ?
	Just there it is, you know.	Proste je to tu, viete.

42:48	But if we wanted	Ale ak by sme sa chceli
	to deal with this…	s tým vysporiada ...

42:54	K: I or you listen	K: Poèúvate, èo hovorím.
	to what is being said.

42:57	You give your whole attention	Dávate tomu plnú pozornos ,

42:59	not as a Catholic or this or that	nie ako katolík alebo ten èi ten
	– you give your complete attention!	- dávate tomu plnú pozornos !

43:06	In that state of attention	V tomto stave pozornosti
	there is a transformation.	je transformácia.

43:10	You are no longer a Hindu,	Už nie ste Hind,
	Buddhist or whatever it is	Budhista alebo èo to je.

43:15	you have finished with all that.	Skonèili ste s tým všetkým.
	You are now a total human being.	Teraz ste úplná ¾udská bytos .

43:22	Then you go round talking about it	Potom pôjdete a budete o tom hovori
	– you follow?	- budete...

43:29	You are active, you are an	Ste aktívny, ste
	outsider operating on the world.	outsider pôsobiaci vo svete.

43:39	But you are not of the world	Ale nie ste mimo sveta,
	but an outsider.	ale ste outsider.

43:43	S: Would you say that in our	S: Povedali by ste, že v našej
	conversation that the closer	konverzácii, že èím bližšie

43:48	we get to the truth,	sa dostávame k pravde,
	the less conscious you become	tým menej si uvedomujete

43:51	of the fact that I am	že som
	a Catholic priest? Does it matter?	katolícky kòaz? Záleží na tom?

43:54	K: Not in the least.	Ani v najmenšom.
	S: Not in the least.	S: Ani v najmenšom.

43:56	K: But it is up to you.	K: Ale to je len na vás.

43:58	S: And it has not mattered to	S: A nezáležalo by
	me whether you are a priest	na me, èi ste kòaz

44:00	or not a priest. I haven't	alebo nie kòaz. Nemám,
	even thought of that	ani mi nenapadlo, že...

44:02	because I am giving	pretože vám dávam
	choiceless attention to you.	bezvýhranú pozornos .

44:05	K: It makes a little difference.	K: Je to rozdiel.
	It makes a difference.	Je to rozdiel.

44:07	Take, for instance, I have met in	Zoberme si napríklad,
	India and elsewhere...	v Indii som stretol...

44:14	Several Hindus	nieko¾ko Hindov
	have come to me and said	prišli ku mne a povedalo:

44:17	'Why don't you put	"Preèo si neobleèieš
	on sannyasis robes?'	na seba sannyasini habit? "

44:20	You know, sannyasis, the monks robe.	Viete, sannyasini, rúcho mnícha.
	I said, 'Why should I?'	Povedal som: "Preèo by som mal?"

44:26	'To show that you are not	"Aby si ukázal, že nie si
	of the world.'	z vonkajšieho sveta.'

44:29	I said, 'Look, I'm not wanting	Povedal som: "Hej, ja nechcem
	to show anything to anybody.'	ukazova nikomu niè. "

44:36	This is real to me,	Toto je moje skutoèné ja.
	that's good enough.	To staèí.

44:38	If you want to come and listen,	Ak chcete prís a poèúva ,
	listen.	poèúvajte.

44:40	But don't go by my garb,	Ale nesúïte pod¾a mojom odevu,
	by my gesture, by my face,	mojich gest, pod¾a mojej tváre,

44:45	that's not important.	to nie je dôležité.
	But to them it is important	Ale pre nich to je dôležité,

44:49	because they use that as a	pretože to používajú ako
	platform from which to attack	platformu, z ktorej zaútoèi ,

44:57	or to distract or to take.	odvráti sa alebo stiahnu sa.

45:00	But if you are not standing	Ale ak nestojíte
	on any platform,	na žiadnej platforme,

45:05	if you don't belong to	ak nikam nepatríte,
	anything, why should I have	preèo by som mal ma

45:08	any collar, no collar,	akýko¾vek golier, bez goliera,
	no shirt… [laughs]	trièko ... [smiech]

45:12	S: But I think as we pursue the	S: Ale myslím, že keï sme sledujeme
	question of what it means to live	otázku, èo znamená ži

45:16	and to die, to be and to	a zomrie , by a
	not be, to love and to hate	neby , milova a nenávidie ,

45:21	as we pursue those things,	ako sledujeme tieto veci,
	we must also at the same time	musíme tiež v rovnakom èase

45:24	pursue the question:	sledova otázku:
	what does it mean to belong?	èo to znamená patri ?

45:28	Now, if you asked me, 'Do you	Teraz, ak by ste sa ma spýtali:
	belong to the Catholic Church?'	"Patríte do katolíckej cirkvi? "

45:31	I would say, 'Of course not'	Povedal by som, "Samozrejme, že nie '
	because I am not a thing	pretože nie som vec

45:34	which can be possessed by anyone.	ktorú môže ktoko¾vek vlastni .
	K: Quite.	K: Presne.

45:36	S: Nor is the Catholic Church	S: Ani katolícka cirkev
	something I possess.	to èo mám ja.

45:40	So we would not like to use	Takže by som nerád používal
	the word 'belong'	slovo "patri .

45:43	If we had a love relationship	Keby sme spolu mali
	with each other	srdeèný vz ah

45:46	could I say you are my friend?	mohol by som poveda , že ste môj priate¾?
	K: Yes.	K: Áno.

45:48	S: No I couldn't because that	S: Nie, nemohol, pretože to
	would connote belonging.	bude znamena vlastníctvo.

45:50	K: I see what you mean.	K: Vidím, èo máte na mysli.
	Yes, yes.	Áno áno.

45:52	S: I could not say you were my friend.	S: Nemohol by som poveda ,
	We use the word all the time	že si môj priate¾.

45:53		Používame to slovo stále.

45:55	but the word 'my' distorts	Ale slovo "moje" skresluje
	what we see when we...	èo vidíme, keï sme ...

45:58	K: Sir, I am questioning, why	K: Pane, pýtam sa, preèo
	do we belong to anything at all?	vôbec patríme nieèomu?

46:03	S: I don't think we can. If we	S: Myslím si, že len...keï sme
	are free then we are not slaves	slobodní, potom nie sme otroci

46:07	and we don't belong to anything.	a nepatríme k nièomu.
	K: That is the main thing.	K: To je hlavná vec.

46:09	S: The possessive	S: Privlastòovací
	relationship is irrelevant.	vz ah je irelevantný.

46:12	K: Not to belong to any organized	K: Nepatri k žiadnej organizovanej,
	spiritual or religious group,	duchovnej alebo náboženskej skupine,

46:16	or belong to a party,	alebo osobe,
	this or that.	tomuto alebo tamtomu.

46:20	Because that encourages	Pretože to podnecuje
	divisions.	rozdelenie.

46:23	S: Yes. If I am, or if I am free	S: Áno. Ak som, alebo som slobodný
	– those mean the same thing	- to je to isté -

46:27	then I am not capable of being	potom nie som schopný by
	possessed by anyone.	vlastnený kýmko¾vek.

46:29	I don't belong. The word	Nepatrím. To slovo
	doesn't mean anything.	niè neznamená.

46:32	K: Not to belong	K: Nepatri
	means to stand alone.	znamená stá samostatne.

46:40	S: But this is the contradiction	S: Ale to je rozpor
	of what we have been saying	toho, èo hovoríme

46:43	during the whole time.	po celú dobu.
	No, not to belong is the price	Nepatri , je cena

46:49	one must pay for being and	ktorú èlovek musí zaplati za to, že je
	loving and seeing anything.	milujúci a vidiaci.

46:56	K: Yes, sir, but also it implies	K: Áno, pane, ale tiež to znamená,
	not to belong to any structure	nepatri k akejko¾vek štruktúre

47:04	which human beings	ktorú ¾udské bytosti
	have put together.	dali dohromady.

47:10	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

47:13	K: Which means that you have	K: Èo znamená, že musíte
	to stand alone, outside.	zosta sám, vonku.

47:18	Not belong to all this mess.	Nepatri k tomuto celému zmätku.

47:20	Sir, when you have order	Pane, keï máte poriadok,
	you don't belong to disorder.	nepatríte k neporiadku.

47:28	S: But now I think we are getting	S: Ale teraz sa stále
	close to what we wanted to say	približujeme k tomu, èo sme chceli poveda ,

47:31	that to die is to live.	že zomrie je ži .

47:38	K: Sir, is that a concept	K: Pane, je to koncept
	or a reality?	alebo realita?

47:42	S: No, no, that's an experience,	S: Nie, nie, to je zážitok,
	that's a reality.	to je realita.

47:45	K: If it is real	K: Vtedy, keï skutoène
	it is something burning!	nieèo horí!

47:48	It isn't just a…	To nie je len ...
	it burns everything false!	páli to všetko falošné!

47:52	S: I see that, and of course	S: Vidím to, a samozrejme to
	we experience this all the time.	zažívam po celú dobu.

47:56	What I'm saying is, if one can	To èo hovorím je, èi èlovek môže
	get over the fear of dying	prekona strach zo smrti

48:01	and one can understand and live	a pochopi to a ži
	with the fullness of this energy	plnos ou tejto energie

48:06	that we're talking about. I think	o ktorej hovoríme. A rovnako,
	by the same token, if one can	èi èlovek môže

48:09	get over the question of belonging,	prekona otázku spolupatriènosti,
	or having in any way,	alebo vlastnenia,

48:16	one can get to the question	vo všetkom, dosta sa k otázke
	that being is. I wonder

48:20		že "by " znamená "je".
		Zaujímalo by ma

48:24	if this is loneliness, or being	èi je to samota, z toho, že som
	alone. I wonder if this is being…

48:26		sám. Zaujímalo by ma,
		èi je to, že ...

48:28	K: The danger of being, one has	K: Nebezpeèenstvo bytia,
	to go into that. What is it to be?	èlovek sa na to musí pozrie ...

48:31		Èo to znamená "by ?"

48:35	We can put it into various categories.	Môžeme to da do rôznych kategórií,
	The category is not being.	ale kategória nie je "bytie."

48:40	S: But when you suggested that,	S: Ale ste naznaèil,
	when we were discussing the question	keï sme diskutovali túto otázku,

48:44	of what it is to be, and we	aké to je, a my
	pursued this through the question	sme preberali túto otázku

48:48	of dying and belonging, and	umierania a spolupatriènosti, a
	you said – to be is to be alone.	vy ste povedal - By , je by sám.

48:53	Is that what you want to say?	Je to to, èo chcete poveda ?

48:55	K: How can I, sir, if I die to	K: Ako môžem vedie , èi moje
	my conditioning as a Hindu…	podmienenie ako Hind ...

48:58	how can I belong to… be	Ako môžem patri ... by
	a Hindu? It has no meaning.	Hind? To nemá zmysel.

49:04	S: Fine.	S: Dobre. Ale zomrie kvôli tomu
	But having died to being…	aby ...

49:07	K: See what happens, sir. I discard,	K: Pozrite, èo sa deje, pane.
	I throw away the garb of Hinduism,	Zbavil som sa,

49:11		zahodil som odev hinduistu,

49:15	or Catholicism, whatever it is,	alebo katolicizmu, èi èo to je,
	and what takes place?	a èo sa deje?

49:19	I am an outsider.	Som outsider.

49:24	I am an outsider in the sense	Som outsider v tom zmysle,
	I may say, 'I love you'	že môžem poveda , "milujem a",

49:27	but I am still an outsider,	ale som stále outsider.
	because there is	Preto to je

49:30	a state of disorder to	stav neporiadku, do
	which human beings belong	ktorého ¾udské bytosti patria,

49:33	and the man who is outside,	a èlovek, ktorý je vonku,
	he doesn't belong.	tam nepatrí.

49:37	S: Unquestionably. Or may not	S: Bezpochyby. Alebo nemusí
	have a sense of belonging or	majú pocit spolupatriènosti alebo

49:41	cannot use the word 'to belong'.	nemožno použi slovo "patri ".
	I cannot use the word 'to belong'.	Nemôžem použi slovo "patri ".

49:43	K: He is out!	K: On je vonku!
	There is no relationship!	Neexistuje žiadny vz ah!

49:46	Now, when there is no relationship	Teraz, keï neexistuje žiadny vz ah
	between disorder and order	medzi poriadkom a neporiadkom,

49:54	– you follow, sir?	- sledujete, pane?
	S: I follow.	S: Sledujem.

49:56	K: Then, what is the state of the mind	K: Tak, aký je stav mysle,
	which is not that?	ktorá nie je taká?

50:04	S: You are suggesting that the state	S: Keï naznaèuje, že stav
	of the mind is one of being alone.	mysle je by sám.

50:09	K: Alone in the sense it is not	K: Sám v tom zmysle, že to nie je
	contaminated, it is really innocent	kontaminované, je to naozaj nevinné.

50:19	– innocence in the sense	Nevinnos v tom zmysle,
	it cannot be hurt.	že nemôže by zranená.

50:22	After all, the word 'innocency',	Koniec koncov, slovo "nevinnos "
	the root meaning is 'not to be hurt.'	koreò význam je "neby ublížený."

50:28	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

50:29	K: Nocere – you know.	K: ...viete.
	So, it is no longer	Tak, už to nie je

50:35	though it may live in the world,	žijeme vo svete, ktorý
	it is not of the world.	už nie je z tohto sveta.

50:39	S: Yes, in the sense of	S: Áno, v tom zmysle,
	conflict and turmoil	konflikty a nepokoje.

50:41	K: All the messy stuff.	K: Všetky chaotické veci.
	S: And all the messy stuff, yes.	S: A všetky chaotické veci, áno.

50:44	K: Now, that is absolutely	Viem, že je absolútne nutné
	necessary to find out more.	zisti viac.

50:49	Not more in the sense of	Nie viac v zmysle
	something more, but that state	nieèo viac, ale v tom stave

50:54	is absolutely essential to discover	je absolútne nevyhnutné zisti ,
	the immeasurable or not.	èi existuje nesmiernos alebo nie.

50:59	S: Yes. I think this is true. So that	S: Áno. Myslím, že je to pravda. Aby

51:02	we do, in a sense, find seeing and	sme, v istom zmysle našlli videnie a
	loving and being, in being alone.

51:13	K: Yes, sir. You see…	lásku a bytie v tom keï sme
		osamotený.

51:18	S: If one disassociates himself	A je to spojené s neporiadkom...
	from disorder, he's…

51:22	K: Not 'one mind.' In observing	K: Nie nieèia myse¾. Pri pozorovaní
	disorder, in being aware	neporiadku, uvedomovaním

51:28	choicelessly of disorder,	si neporiadku,
	order comes.	nastáva poriadok.

51:31	You don't belong to	Nepatríte k jednému alebo
	one or… there is order.	k druhému ... je tam poriadok!

51:36	S: And as we pursue the question	S: A ako sme sa zaoberali otázkou
	of the meaning of order,	významu poriadku,

51:40	– or harmony, tranquillity or peace –	- alebo harmónie, pokoja a mieru -
	we found ourselves	ocitli sme sa

51:44	with the same answer, but	pri rovnakej odpovedi,
	this is to be in the first place,	v prvom rade by ,

51:48	this is to love	to je milova
	in the first place,	na prvom mieste.

51:50	this is to see	To je vidie
	in the first place.	na prvom mieste.

51:53	K: Order, sir, is one of the	K: Poriadok pane, je jedna z
	most extraordinary things	najmimoriadnejších vecí

51:56	because it's always new.	pretože je vždy nový.

52:00	It isn't order according to a pattern,	Nie je to poriadok pod¾a vzoru,
	it is a living thing.	je to živá vec.

52:07	Virtue is a living thing.	Cnos je živá vec.
	It isn't: 'I am virtuous'.	To nie je: "Ja som cnostný".

52:11	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

52:12	K: You cannot ever	K: Nemôžete nikdy
	say 'I am virtuous,'	hovori "ja som cnostný"

52:15	because if you say that	pretože ak to poviete, už
	you are not virtuous.	nie ste cnostný.

52:18	But virtue is a living thing, moving,	Ale cnos je živá vec, pohyb,
	like a river flowing, alive.	teèie ako rieka teèie, žije.

52:25	And therefore in that state	A preto...v tomto stave,

52:30	something beyond	je nieèo mimo, èo sa nedá zmera .
	measure takes place.

52:35	S: And it's at that moment that	S: A v tej chvíli èlovek
	one discovers the immeasurable.	objaví nesmiernos .

52:38	K: Yes.	K: Áno.
	S: Yes.

52:40	K: You see, not discovers	K: Viete, neobjavíte ju.
	– it is there.	- Je tam!

52:43	It is there!	Je tam!
	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

52:45	K: 'Discovery' and 'experience'	K: Viete "objavi " a "skúsenos "
	are rather unfortunate words,	sú naneš astie len slová,

52:50	because most human beings want	pretože väèšina ¾udí chce
	to experience something great	zaži nieèo ve¾ké.

52:55	because their lives are shoddy,	Pretože ich životy sú také nudné,
	their lives are petty,	ich životy sú malicherné,

52:59	their lives	ich životy
	are full of anxiety.	sú plné úzkosti.

53:03	They say,	Hovoria:
	'For God's sake, give me	Pane Bože, daj mi

53:05	greater experience,	väèšie skúsenosti,
	something more'.	nieèo viac!

53:08	Therefore these meditations,	Preto existujú tieto meditácie,

53:10	these groups forming	tieto skupiny, ktoré sa tvoria,
	who meditate and all that	ktoré meditujú a to všetko

53:14	they are searching for that.	h¾adajú.

53:16	Whereas they have to bring	Zatia¾èo majú v prvom rade prinies
	order in their life first.	poriadok.

53:22	And then	A potom

53:25	what takes place is something	èo sa deje, je nieèo
	quite beyond measure.	úplne mimo nesmiernosti.

53:30	I think that's enough.	Myslím, že to staèí.

53:32	S: So then if we are pursuing	S: Takže ak sa naháòame

53:34	the question of	za nieèím
	the measurelessness…	nesmiernym..

53:42	if we are pursuing…	ak sledujeme ...
	K: You can't pursue it.	K: Nemôžete sa za tým naháòa .

53:45	S: Well, and you can't discover it…	S: No, a nedá sa to objavi ...
	K: You can't pursue it.	K: Nemôžete to realizova .

53:48	S: This is good. You cannot pursue it,	S: To je dobré. Nemôžete to sledova ,
	you cannot discover it	nemôžete to objavi

53:50	and it's not good to use	a nie je dobré používa
	the word 'experience' about it.	slovo "skúsenos ".

53:53	All of this we understand.	To sme si prešli.
	When one comes upon it...	A keï to èlovek nájde...

53:58	K: You leave the door open, sir.	K: Necháte dvere otvorené, pane.

54:00	S: You leave the door open.	S: Necháte dvere otvorené.

54:01	K: Let the sun come in.	K: Nech slnko príde.
	If the sun comes in, it's all right,	A keï slnko príde, je to v poriadku.

54:05	if it doesn't, it's all right.	Ak nepríde, je to v poriadku.
	S: Yes.	S: Áno.

54:07	K: Because the moment	K: Èím viac sa za tým naháòate,
	you pursue it you close the door.	tým viac zatvárate dvere.

54:10	S: The very pursuit	S: To isté h¾adanie
	is the closing the door.	je zatváranie dverí.

54:12	K: The very search for truth is the	K: To isté h¾adanie pravdy je
	closing of truth, blocking truth.	zakrívanie pravdy. Zamkýnanie pravdy.

54:16	S: Yes.	S: Áno.
	K: Right, that's enough.	K: Dobre, to staèí.