Krishnamurti - Bạn có nhận thức về cấu trúc của chính bạn?

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR78D1 - Bạn có nhận thức về cấu trúc của chính bạn?
Buổi Đối Thoại thứ nhất
Brockwood Park, Anh Quốc
29 tháng Tám 1978

0:38	K: This is supposed to be a discussion or a dialogue a dialogue being a conversation between two people. And as that is impossible to have a conversation with two people including so many perhaps we could take a problem which may affect all of us and discuss it as though it were between two people. Or we could turn this into a question and answer meeting. So which would you like? Discussion generally ends up in an argument which would be rather futile offering one opinion against another one judgement against another and so on. But whereas a dialogue a conversation between two people who are friends who are concerned about a problem which is mutual and perhaps they can talk over their problems deeply quietly, seriously and with a sense of humour. Or we could turn this into a question and answer meeting. There too, again, what kind of question one asks who is asking, what is the purpose of asking and who is going to answer the question and so on - all that is involved in all this. So which would you like, or think it proper to either question, dialogue or discussion?	Đây định là buổi thảo luận hay đối thoại đối thoại là nói chuyện giữa hai người. Và không thể nào trò chuyện giữa hai người mà có nhiều người có thể lấy một vấn đề làm xúc chạm mọi người và thảo luận như chỉ có hai người. Hay chúng ta có thể chuyển sang hỏi và đáp. Vậy bạn muốn sao? Thảo luận cuối cùng thành cãi cọ có lẽ khá vô ích đưa ra ý kiến đối nghịch nhau phán đoán này khác đối nhau, v.v.. Nhưng trò chuyện đối đáp giữa hai người là bè bạn cùng quan tâm một vấn đề có liên quan và có thể thảo luận sâu vào vấn đề im lặng, nghiêm túc và với ý hài hước. Hay là chúng ta chuyển sang hỏi và trả lời. Rồi thì bạn sẽ hỏi gì đây ai hỏi, và hỏi với mục đích gì và ai sẽ trả lời câu hỏi và v.v.. - gồm tất cả đó. Vậy bạn thích cái nào, hay nghĩ rằng hỏi, đối thoại hay thảo luận đều tốt?
3:04	Q: Dialogue.	Q:Đối thoại.
3:09	K: If it is to be a dialogue what shall we talk about remembering a dialogue is between two people a conversation amicable, easy, quiet and penetrating? So what shall we talk over together?	K:Nếu là đối thoại chúng ta sẽ nói về gì nhớ là đối thoại giữa hai người trò chuyện thân mật, dễ dàng, im lặng và đi sâu? Vậy sẽ cùng thảo luận gì?
3:43	Q: Sir, I would like to ask a question, not necessarily a dialogue. You were saying yesterday that the chaos and the violence in the world is a result of our everyday lives. But I don't think it is easy as all that. If you take the spectrum, at one end of the spectrum you put Hitler and at the other end of the spectrum you put a person like Schweitzer then you have two people who are doing something quite different: one person is trying to help humanity and the other person is trying to destroy humanity. Now if you leave that aside for a moment: take any one person in this tent give them the right environment, the right job they are free of conflict, they are not hooked on religion or dope and they get cancer. Now the conventional religious view would say that it is an act of god, which is obviously crackers. But you could say this person has a disposition towards a disease. Now it does appear to me that in the world today there are people who are definitely for the forces of good and those for the forces of destruction.	Q:Tôi muốn hỏi một câu, không cần thiết là đối thoại. Hôm qua ngài nói hỗn loạn và bạo lực trên thế giới là hậu quả của lối sống hàng ngày. Nhưng tôi nghĩ không dễ dàng vậy. Nếu dùng một quang phổ, đầu này quang phổ để Hitler, và đầu kia của quang phổ đặt ai đó như Schweitzer vậy là sẽ có hai người làm khác nhau hoàn toàn: một người cố gắng giúp nhân loại còn người kia thì cố phá huỷ nhân loại. Tạm bỏ việc ấy sang bên lấy ai đó trong đây cho họ môi trường tốt, công việc tốt họ thoát khỏi xung đột, không bám vào tôn giáo hay ma tuý và bị ung thư. Cái nhìn tôn giáo thông thường sẽ nói là hành động của thượng đế, dĩ nhiên nói láo. Nhưng có thể nói người đó có khuynh hướng bịnh tật. Đối với tôi hình như thế giới ngày nay có nhiều người rõ ràng thuộc thế lực tốt và những người thuộc thế lực phá hoại.
4:54	K: The gentleman asks why do you say the world is in chaos because we are in chaos, each one of us: uncertain, argumentative, greedy, selfish, violent which perhaps may project in the world bearing in mind that we are the world we are not different from the world. And there are good people, the questioner says and there are some bad people, bad guys and good guys and would it be erroneous on your part to say that because we live in our own particular individual lives rather violent, ugly and so on, that maybe quite inaccurate. That's right, sir?	K:Anh bạn hỏi tại sao ngài nói thế giới rối loạn bởi chúng ta rối loạn, mỗi người: bất an, tranh cãi, tham lam, ích kỷ, bạo lực nó có thể hiện ra thế giới nhớ rằng chúng ta là thế giới chúng ta không khác thế giới. Và có những người tốt, anh bạn nói và cũng có người xấu, bạn tốt và bạn xấu và chắc là sai lầm khi nói vậy bởi vì chúng ta sống cuộc sống cá nhân riêng khá bạo lực, xấu xa, v.v.., có lẽ không chính xác. Đúng vậy không?
6:06	What other questions would you like to discuss, talk over?	Có câu hỏi nào khác muốn thảo luận, bàn bạc?
6:10	Q: I would like to ask a question, if I may. I was churning over in my mind what you said yesterday about registering memories. And what concerned me was if you were to ask me a question if I was to totally experience what you were saying to me that at the end of the question if I had totally experienced it that I wouldn't know that you had asked me a question in order to be able to answer it. And what I would like to ask you is: is it possible that we have two parts to our communication which are the two hemispheres of the brain one which only receives and which totally registers all the time and the other part which transmits which in fact we need not register because if we experience that we need not register it. Is it possible that - my mind has gone a blank now, sorry. (Laughter) When we receive we are not able to blot out that memory that it is there totally and that in fact it is our choice whether we use one side of the brain or the other and to what extent we use each side of the brain.	Q:Tôi xin phép hỏi một câu. Tôi khuấy tung trí óc điều ngài nói hôm qua về ký ức ghi chép. Và điều tôi quan tâm là khi ngài hỏi tôi một câu có phải tôi hoàn toàn trải qua điều ngài nói rằng cuối câu hỏi phải chăng tôi kinh nghiệm tôi không biết liệu ngài hỏi tôi câu ấy có phải để tôi trả lời. Và tôi muốn hỏi ngài là: có thể nào chúng ta có hai phần để trao đổi tức là hai bán cầu não một chỉ thu nhận và luôn luôn ghi lại và phần kia là truyền đi thực tế chúng ta không cần ghi bởi nếu có trải qua chúng ta không cần ghi. Có thể nào - trí óc tôi trắng tinh ngay, xin lỗi. (Cười) Khi thu nhận chúng ta không thể xóa sạch ký ức nó ở cả đó và thực tế là chúng ta chọn lựa dùng bên này của não hay bên kia của não và cả phạm vi của mỗi bên.
7:36	K: The questioner says there are two spheres in our brain one that is receiving, registering, memorising and the other part, perhaps the other part which is more free, which is not conditioned and therefore there is this duality going on in us. And memory, remembrance of a particular of this sphere is necessary. That is his question.	K:Anh bạn nói rằng có hai bán cầu não một là thu nhận, ghi lại, ghi nhớ và bên kia, có lẽ bên kia tự do hơn, không bị qui định và vậy là có nhị nguyên trong chúng ta. Và ký ức, nhớ lại của riêng bán cầu này là cần thiết. Đó là câu hỏi anh ấy.
8:20	Any other question?	Câu hỏi nào khác?
8:22	Q: Yes, would you please talk about the problem that arises when the intensity of one's feelings and emotions block one's awareness of thought.	Q:Vâng, xin ngài nói về vấn đề nổi lên khi cảm nhận và cảm xúc quá mạnh sẽ ngăn cản nhận thức của suy nghĩ.
8:37	K: When one's emotions and sentiments and reactions which are intense and strong, block a perception, what is one to do?	K:Khi cảm xúc và cảm giác và phản ứng quá mạnh mẽ, nó cản trở nhận thức, vậy phải làm gì?
8:57	Q: I understood that meditation is a way of life all day so you think there is no need to sit down in lotus position at certain times. That is one thing. And the other thing is when we return from here and we are all alone in a crowd where do we find the strength to keep on? I feel lost. K: Yes. Is it necessary to sit in a certain posture lotus posture introduced from India and the East is it necessary to sit that way to meditate? And is it necessary to set aside a certain part of the day to have - daydreams! (Laughter)	Q:Tôi hiểu thiền định là cách sống hàng ngày nên ngài cho là không cần ngồi thế hoa sen vào lúc nào đó. Đó là một việc. Và việc khác là khi trở về nhà và khi một mình trong đám đông chúng ta tìm đâu sức mạnh để tiếp tục? Tôi như lạc mất. K:Vâng. Có cần phải ngồi ở một tư thế nào thế hoa sen của Ấn và phương Đông có cần ngồi như thế để thiền định? Và có cần để riêng một lúc nào trong ngày - để mơ mộng! (Cười)
9:48	Q: No, to breathing.	Q:Không, để thở.
9:51	K: I understand (laughs), I was only joking. And how is one to have, when one leaves here to have the strength to face all one's solitude loneliness, all the travail of life. That is the question. Q: To keep on this way of life.	K:Tôi hiểu (cười), chỉ đùa thôi. Và làm sao để có, khi rời nơi đây có sức mạnh để đối mặt với cô đơn cô độc, mọi đau khổ đời người. Đó là câu hỏi. Q:Để tiếp tục lối sống này.
10:21	K: Yes.	K:Vâng.
10:25	Q: Do you see any relation between the awareness and trust, faith?	Q:Có liên hệ gì giữa nhận thức và tin tưởng, niềm tin?
10:35	K: Faith? Oh, do you see any difference between otherness and faith. I don't know what it is about - doesn't matter.	K:Niềm tin? Ồ, bạn có thấy khác nhau giữa bờ kia và niềm tin? Tôi không biết gì về đó - không sao.
10:44	Q: Awareness.	Q:Nhận thức.
10:56	Q: Relationship between faith and awareness.	Q:Liên hệ giữa niềm tin và nhận thức.
11:02	K: That's the correct - sir, sorry. What is the relationship between awareness and faith. Yes sir?	K:Đúng rồi - xin lỗi. Có liên hệ gì giữa nhận thức và niềm tin. Phải không?
11:15	Q: I would very much like to ask a question connected with the first question. This is that one can see fairly clearly that one's own psychological pain the pain in the world as a whole is caused by us, a projection. But it seems that there is pain in the universe as a whole not caused by human beings. The sort of thing I refer to is the the genetic imperfection perhaps with children being born with frightful diseases which one cannot put to human beings. In other words a slightly imperfect universe which causes pain. This is quite a problem when we think about it.	Q:Tôi rất muốn hỏi một câu liên quan đến câu hỏi đầu tiên. Tức là, có thể thấy khá rõ rằng đau đớn tâm lý khổ đau khắp thế giới đều do chúng ta gây ra, phóng ra. Nhưng hình như có đau khổ trong vũ trụ như tổng thể không do người gây ra. Điều tôi muốn nói là sự khiếm khuyết gien nơi trẻ nhỏ với những bịnh bẩm sinh đáng sợ không phải do con người. Nói cách khác vũ trụ hơi bất toàn gây ra nỗi đau. Đó quả là vấn đề cho chúng ta suy nghĩ.
12:02	K: If I understood the question rightly may I put it in my own words, sir to see that we understand each other? That there is not only individual suffering each person suffers in different ways but also there seems to be a universal suffering a global suffering - children are born deformed mentally retarded and so on, so on.	K:Nếu như tôi hiểu đúng câu hỏi tôi có thể nói theo cách riêng để thấy là mình hiểu nhau chứ? Rằng không chỉ có đau khổ riêng mỗi người đau khổ cách khác nhau mà hình như là có đau khổ chung đau khổ toàn cầu - trẻ con sinh ra dị hình trí óc chậm phát triển, v.v..
12:35	Now just a minute please - which of these questions do you want to discuss? Which is, first, the question that gentleman asked: you may be in error when you say that because we live in chaos and uncertainty and violence and so we create a world that is chaotic violent and so on, that may be a wrong question. Are you exact in saying that? I have reduced it to a small thing, sir. And the other question is: do we have to sit in meditation in a particular posture lotus as it is called in India and it is brought over into this country. And the other is, your question emotions and sentiments which are intense come in the way of observation, clarity and awareness. And the other question is: what is the relationship between awareness and faith? And that question that gentleman put, which is: there is not only human, particular human suffering but there is global, universal suffering. Now which of these questions?	Xin chờ một chút - vậy bạn muốn thảo luận câu hỏi nào? Tức là, trước hết, câu anh bạn hỏi: bạn có thể lầm khi nói thế bởi chúng ta sống trong hỗn loạn, bất an và bạo lực và chúng ta tạo ra thế giới hỗn loạn bạo lực, v.v.., đó có lẽ là vấn đề sai. Bạn nói đúng vậy chứ? Tôi đã thu gọn nó lại. Và câu hỏi kia là: chúng ta có nên ngồi thiền định trong tư thế hoa sen như Ấn độ gọi thế và được truyền sang xứ này. Và câu hỏi khác, bạn hỏi cảm giác và cảm xúc mạnh mẽ xảy đến khi quan sát, sáng suốt và nhận thức. Và câu kế là: có liên hệ gì giữa nhận thức và niềm tin? Và câu anh bạn này hỏi là: không chỉ có đau khổ riêng con người mà là đau khổ chung, toàn cầu. Giờ thì câu hỏi nào...?
14:25	Q: What about loneliness?	Q:Cô đơn thì sao?
14:28	K: Nobody asked about loneliness, I introduced it.	K:Không ai hỏi về cô đơn, tôi nói thôi.
14:34	Q: The question about registration, the two sides of the brain.	Q:Câu hỏi về ghi lại, hai bán cầu não.
14:39	K: Oh, yes, I beg your pardon - quite right.	K:Ồ, vâng, xin lỗi - đúng thế.
14:43	Q: Sir, one more question. K: Wait a minute sir. Let me That gentleman asked that perhaps two spheres in the brain one that registers, remembers, accumulates knowledge experience, cultivates memory and so on the other part may be unconditioned. What is the relationship between the two? That is right sir? Now no more questions.	Q:Thưa, còn một câu hỏi. K:Đợi tí nhé. Để tôi... Anh bạn này nói có lẽ có hai bán cầu não một ghi chép, nhớ lại, tích luỹ kiến thức kinh nghiệm, vun đắp ký ức, v.v.. phần kia chắc không bị qui định. Quan hệ giữa chúng thế nào? Đúng vậy không? Không còn câu hỏi khác.
15:20	Q: One more question. What is the source of urgency, energy to go into all these questions?	Q:Còn một câu. Nguồn lực, năng lực nào để tìm hiểu các vấn đề này?
15:31	K: What is the source, the drive, the push, the pressure why should one be interested in all these things?	K:Nguồn, thôi thúc, đẩy, sức ép nào tại sao thích thú các vấn đề này?
15:46	Q: And sir, what is the beginning of memory and is there a point in time when the mind sees the age of a problem?	Q:Và, bắt đầu của ghi nhớ là gì và có chăng điểm thời gian khi trí óc thấy tuổi của vấn đề?
15:55	K: What is the beginning of memory and what is	K:Bắt đầu của ghi nhớ là gì và gì nào...
15:58	Q: Is there a point in time when the mind sees the age of a problem, like fear being older than jealousy?	Q:Có chăng một điểm thời gian khi trí óc thấy tuổi của vấn đề, như sợ hãi già hơn ghen tị?
16:08	K: I don't quite understand.	K:Tôi thực không hiểu.
16:10	Q: I can see fear is older than jealousy. There are times when I can see the age of a problem. It is a rather serious question about reincarnation.	Q:Tôi có thể thấy sợ già hơn ghen tị. Có những lúc tôi có thể thấy tuổi của vấn đề. Đó là vấn đề khá nghiêm túc về tái sinh.
16:24	K: Ah, you want to discuss reincarnation. Now which of these questions would you like to talk over together?	K:À, bạn muốn thảo luận về tái sinh. Vậy câu hỏi nào bạn muốn cùng nhau thảo luận?
16:33	Q: Global suffering. Q: Emotions.	Q:Đau khổ chung. Q:Cảm xúc.
16:37	K: You decide. (Laughter)	K:Quyết định đi. (Cười)
16:42	Q: Emotions.	Q:Cảm xúc.
16:44	Q: The use of energy. Q: Reincarnation.	Q:Sử dụng năng lực. Q:Tái sinh.
16:48	Q: Krishnaji, could you deal with them all in some way by answering one question? (Laughter)	Q:Krishnaji, ngài có thể làm sao để trả lời trong một vấn đề? (Cười)
16:59	K: The questioner asks: could you include all these questions in one question, in one statement? Perhaps we could, and that	K:Anh bạn hỏi: có thể nào gom hết vấn đề vào một vấn đề, một câu nói? Có lẽ chúng ta, và...
17:18	Q: You said that you should forget the past and	Q:Ngài nói nên quên hết quá khứ và...
17:23	K: I never said we could forget the past sir.	K:Tôi không hề nói nên quên hết quá khứ.
17:25	Q: You should forget the past, you said it the day before yesterday.	Q:Bạn nên quên hết quá khứ, ngài nói thế hôm kia.
17:28	K: No, I did not.	K:Không, không đâu.
17:29	Q: When you have got suffering you have got injured finger or that comes in your memory it's memorising and the past is difficult to forget, you see. I want to know how we can forget the past.	Q:Khi đau đớn có ngón tay bị thương hay nó vào ký ức nó ghi nhớ và quá khứ khó mà quên, ngài xem. Tôi muốn biết làm sao có thể quên quá khứ.
17:46	K: I did not forgive me for contradicting you sir but I did not say forget the past. You can't forget the past. We will go into all this by taking one question which perhaps will include all others. Shall we take? Now which shall it be? Just think it out sir. Look we have had several problems put to us and the gentleman suggests that we should perhaps by investigating one question one statement, we could perhaps include all the others. I think that it could be done. But which shall we take which will include all the others?	K:Tôi không...xin thứ lỗi vì ngược lại bạn nhưng tôi không nói hãy quên quá khứ. Bạn không thể quên quá khứ. Chúng ta sẽ tìm hiểu khi lấy một vấn đề có lẽ bao gồm những cái khác. Đồng ý chứ? Nào, cái nào đây? Suy nghĩ xem. Xem chúng ta có vài vấn đề được hỏi và anh bạn này gợi ý chúng ta nên có lẽ qua tìm hiểu một vấn đề một câu nói, có thể bao gồm mọi cái khác. Tôi nghĩ nên như thế. Nhưng sẽ lấy câu nào để gom hết mọi câu khác?
18:33	Q: Emotions.	Q:Cảm xúc.
18:34	K: Just take a second sir. Take just a second. Let's find out. Which question would include all the others?	K:Thử lấy câu thứ hai. Chỉ lấy câu hai. Hãy tìm hiểu xem. Vấn đề nào bao gồm mọi cái kia?
18:44	Q: Where do all these questions come from?	Q:Những câu hỏi này từ đâu đến?
18:47	Q: We ask where is the thrust of all these questions.	Q:Chúng ta hỏi thúc đẩy nào hỏi mấy câu này.
18:51	K: What is the source of all these questions.	K:Nguồn gốc những câu hỏi này.
18:54	Q: The source of this is the energy which asks the questions.	Q:Nguồn gốc của nó là năng lực đặt câu hỏi.
18:59	K: Is that what you are asking, interested in the source of the energy that asks all these questions?	K:Phải đó là điều bạn hỏi, thích thú nguồn năng lực nào đặt những câu hỏi?
19:07	Q: No.	Q:Không.
19:08	Q: Could you answer the question: what is insight and by what process does it come about?	Q:Ngài có thể trả lời câu: tỏ sáng là gì và làm sao tiến trình ấy xảy ra?
19:14	K: Sir, look there are so many.	K:Nào, có quá nhiều rồi.
19:19	Q: The registration in the mind.	Q:Ghi chép trong trí óc.
19:23	Q: You decide, or we are never going to start. (Laughter)	Q:Ngài quyết định, hay sẽ không bao giờ bắt đầu. (Cười)
19:30	K: You are quite right. (Laughter) Could we take up the relationship between awareness faith and emotions, meditation and what is the need of a brain that it should register at all not the two, but the necessity of registering at all. Could we, by taking one question, would that I think we could do it I suggest this, I am not saying it must be that way I suggest that we discuss what is relationship which would include all these. What is the relationship between awareness, faith, meditation the registration, the global suffering of man in which is included the suffering of each one of us. Right?	K:Bạn đúng đó. (Cười) Có lẽ lấy sự liên hệ giữa nhận thức niềm tin và cảm xúc, thiền định và điều gì cần để não nên ghi lại không phải cả hai bên, mà là cần thiết ghi lại. Có thể, lấy một câu, là... Tôi nghĩ có thể làm tôi gợi ý, tôi không nói phải như thế tôi đề nghị thảo luận sự liên hệ nào có thể bao gồm mọi câu kia. Liên hệ nào giữa nhận thức, niềm tin, thiền định ghi lại, đau khổ toàn cầu nó bao gồm đau khổ mỗi chúng ta. Phải không?
20:52	Q: And the registration. K: And registration - I said that.	Q:Và ghi lại. K:Và ghi lại - tôi nói thế.
20:59	Now, shall we begin by talking about registration and relate that to awareness and to the intensity of our emotions and so on? Right? So we will begin, if we may, if please correct me, I am not the Delphic Oracle if you think we should discuss something else we are willing but let us begin by asking: what is the need of a human mind, brain to register anything at all? First of all, are we aware, know, cognisant of this registering process going on? You understand? I am just beginning with that. Do you, as a human being know, or aware that you are registering? You understand my question? Or you have accepted the statement and then you proceed to question the statement? Are you aware that you register certain things? An unhappy incident of yesterday is registered. Are you aware of this registering process going on? Or you are merely accepting a statement by somebody else? You see the difference? If I accept a statement that you have made and question about that statement, which is one thing whereas if I am aware that I am registering then my question has a different quality to it. Right? So which is it we are doing now? Are we aware that we are registering? Are you aware now, sitting there that you are registering what is being said which means that you are actually listening to what is being said. Right? Are you? Or are you still concerned about why the need for registration? You see the difference?	Nào, chúng ta bắt đầu nói về ghi lại và liên quan đến nhận thức và cảm xúc mạnh mẽ v.v..? Phải không? Vậy bắt đầu nhé, có thể, chỉnh tôi nhé, tôi không phải Tiên tri delphy nếu bạn nghĩ nên thảo luận điều gì khác chúng ta sẽ nhưng hãy bắt đầu hỏi: cần thiết gì cho trí óc con người, mà não ghi lại hết? Trước hết, chúng ta có nhận thức, biết tiến trình ghi chép diễn ra không? Hiểu không? Tôi chỉ bắt đầu như vậy. Bạn có, như một người biết, nhận thức bạn đang ghi chép? Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không? Hay bạn chấp nhận câu nói và rồi bạn tiến hành đặt câu hỏi? Bạn có biết bạn ghi chép điều gì không? Một sự cố bất hạnh hôm qua được ghi. Bạn có biết tiến trình ghi ấy xảy ra không? Hay bạn chỉ chấp nhận câu nói của ai khác? Bạn có thấy khác nhau? Nếu tôi chấp nhận câu nói của bạn và hỏi về câu nói ấy, đó là một việc trái lại, nếu nhận ra tôi đang ghi câu hỏi liền có đặc tính khác. Phải không? Vậy mình đang làm điều nào? Có nhận thức mình đang ghi chép? Giờ bạn có biết, đang ngồi đó bạn đang ghi những gì được nói nghĩa là bạn thực sự lắng nghe những gì được nói. Phải không? Vậy chứ? Hay bạn vẫn còn quan tâm tại sao cần phải ghi? Bạn thấy khác nhau?
24:03	Can we proceed this way, slowly?	Có thể làm vậy, chậm thôi?
24:15	Q: Sir, one is aware that one holds on to what is being said.	Q:Thưa, nhận thức mình ôm giữ những gì được nói.
24:18	K: Yes, that is it. One is aware that one holds to what is being said. Now why does one hold on to what is being said? When the speaker says there is no speaker you are listening to yourself you are investigating yourself why do you hold on to a statement made by this person? which means you are not actually listening to yourself.	K:Vâng, chính thế. Nhận thức mình ôm giữ những gì được nói. Nào, tại sao ôm giữ lời nói? Khi người nói nói, không có người nói bạn đang nghe chính mình bạn tìm hiểu chính mình tại sao bạn nắm giữ lời anh ta? tức là bạn không thực sự nghe chính mình.
24:58	Q: Sir, you want to act on it.	Q:Thưa, ngài muốn tác động nó.
25:01	K: No, no, which means You see the difference sir? If you are told you are hungry, that is one thing but if you are really hungry that is another. Obviously, right? So which is it? Are you really hungry or you are told you are hungry? Which means, are you aware that you are registering holding on to a statement to a phrase, to some conclusion, to an idea and so on which is registration going on? Right sir? Now why do you want to register what is being said? Because the speaker must have either a reputation or you think he knows something more than you do or you are expecting him to solve your problems so you are depending on another. The other says 'Please, don't depend on anybody, including the speaker' You follow?	K:Không, không, tức là...Bạn thấy khác nhau chứ? Nếu bạn nói bạn đói, đó là một việc nhưng nếu bạn thực sự đói lại là khác. Dĩ nhiên, phải không? Vậy cái nào? Bạn thực sự đói hay bạn nói bạn đói? Nghĩa là, bạn có nhận thức bạn đang ghi nắm giữ lời nói câu nói, kết luận, ý niệm, v.v.. tức là ghi đang xảy ra? Phải không? Nào, tại sao bạn muốn ghi lại lời nói? Bởi vì người nói phải có danh tiếng hay bạn nghĩ anh ta biết điều gì hơn bạn hay bạn mong anh ta giải quyết vấn đề bạn vậy là bạn lệ thuộc người khác. Người khác nói... 'Nào, đừng lệ thuộc ai khác, kể cả người nói' Theo kịp không?
26:28	So, let us be clear in this matter. Are you aware of the whole momentum, the movement of registration? I mean, you can see a tape recorder registering. Right? Are you similarly aware that you are recording? Or you have been told that you are recording. See the difference? If you are told that you are recording that is one thing it has no value, it is just like a tape you can wipe it out and a new tape can be put in whereas if you discover for yourself that you are registering and ask the question: 'Why am I registering what is the necessity of any kind of registration?' Then we can proceed then we can communicate with each other. But if you are saying, well you said that yesterday about registration I am awfully interested in this idea, let's talk about it. Then it remains merely at the verbal level, it has no meaning. At least for me, it has no meaning whatsoever. Whereas if you say 'I want to find this out, why I register' can we go along that way? Q: Yes.	Vậy, hãy làm rõ điều này. Bạn có nhận thức cả quán tính, vận hành của ghi lại? Tức là, bạn có thể thấy băng từ đang ghi. Phải không? Cũng vậy bạn có biết mình đang ghi? Hay bạn nói bạn đang ghi. Thấy khác nhau? Nếu bạn nói bạn đang ghi là một việc nó không giá trị, như băng từ bạn có thể xóa và cho băng mới vào ngược lại nếu bạn khám phá rằng bạn đang ghi và đặt câu hỏi: 'Tại sao tôi ghi loại ghi ấy cần thiết gì?' Rồi thì có thể tiếp tục chúng ta có thể trao đổi nhau. Nhưng nếu bạn nói, này hôm qua ngài nói về ghi lại tôi rất thích thú ý này, hãy nói về nó. Vậy chỉ là trên mức độ ngôn từ, chẳng nghĩa gì. Ít nhất với tôi, không nghĩa gì hết. Trái lại nếu bạn nói... 'Tôi muốn tìm hiểu, tại sao tôi ghi' có thể cùng đi lối ấy? Q:Vâng.
28:03	K: Why do you register, if you are aware of it? Obviously you register when something is dangerous. Right? A precipice, a snake, a dangerous animal, or a dangerous man or a motor coming hurtling towards you, it is danger. You immediately register it, in order to protect. And also you register when there is pleasure. So this process is going on all the time. The registration of everything that is dangerous. Right? And everything that gives one a great pleasure. One can say the registration began with the first man the cave man, however they lived. You can see there they had to register danger otherwise they would be destroyed. So let's find out what is dangerous for us to register and then we can go on to the other. What are the most dangerous things in life that should be registered? Not depending on individual opinions. I wonder if I am making myself clear.	Tại sao bạn ghi lại, bạn có biết? Dĩ nhiên bạn ghi lại điều gì nguy hiểm. Phải không? Hẻm núi, rắn rít, thú nguy hiểm, hay người nguy hiểm hay xe hơi chạy lao vào bạn, nguy hiểm. Bạn liền ghi lại, để bảo vệ. Và bạn cũng ghi khi vui thú. Tiến trình ấy luôn diễn ra. Ghi lại mọi việc nguy hiểm. Phải không? Và những gì cho bạn niềm vui lớn. Có thể nói ghi lại bắt đầu ở người đầu tiên người hang động, dù họ sống thế nào. Bạn có thể thấy họ phải ghi nguy hiểm nếu không họ bị hủy diệt. Vậy xem điều gì nguy hiểm để chúng ta ghi và rồi có thể tiếp đến cái khác. Điều gì nguy hiểm nhất trong đời sống cần ghi? Không lệ thuộc quan niệm cá nhân. Không biết tôi nói rõ không?
29:49	Q: Yes. Yes.	Q:Vâng. Rõ.
29:51	K: Because to me one thing may be most dangerous and to you, you say that is too silly. So it must be a common factor for a human being whose necessity is to register danger and therefore avoid. Right? Danger means avoiding, not going near it not touching it, not be involved in it. Right sir? So what is most dangerous for you, us human beings?	K:Bởi với tôi điều có thể nguy hiểm nhất với bạn lại nói nó tầm phào. Nên phải là tác nhân chung cho mọi người cần thiết ghi lại nguy hiểm để tránh đi. Phải không? Nguy hiểm tức là tránh đi, không đến gần không chạm đến, không vướng vào. Phải không? Vậy điều gì nguy hiểm nhất cho con người?
30:35	Q: What disturbs the mind.	Q:Điều làm phiền trí óc.
30:37	K: No, no. Physically. What is most dangerous? Not what disturbs your mind. You are going off into some - please begin at the lowest level.	K:Không, không. Vật lý kia. Điều gì nguy hiểm nhất? Không phải phiền trí óc. Bạn đi khá xa - hãy bắt đầu ở điểm thấp nhất.
30:47	Q: That is what disturbs me, that is most dangerous for me.	Q:Đó là điều làm phiền tôi, nguy hiểm nhất cho tôi.
30:50	K: You see that's what I was trying to avoid. What is most dangerous for me I said may be not so dangerous for another. So don't look, if I may suggest don't take yourself and say this is my particular danger. See the danger of what is dangerous for man.	K:Bạn thấy đó là điều tôi cố tránh. Điều nguy hiểm nhất cho tôi có thể không nguy hiểm cho người khác. Vậy đừng nhìn, tôi đề nghị đừng lấy bạn và nói đó là nguy hiểm riêng. Xem nguy hiểm gì cho con người.
31:13	Q: Physical threat.	Q:Đe dọa vật lý.
31:14	Q: Threat to survival.	Q:Đe dọa sống còn.
31:18	K: Yes, which is, non-survival. Not to survive. That means Sorry, I am putting it wrongly. The demand is to survive. Anything that destroys that survival is dangerous. Right? For all human beings, not for me or for you, for all of us.	K:Vâng, tức là, không sống sót. Không sống sót. Nghĩa là...Xin lỗi, tôi nói sai. Đòi hỏi sống còn. Điều gì huỷ diệt sống còn là nguy hiểm. Phải không? Cho con người, không phải tôi hay bạn, mà tất cả.
31:47	Q: Why?	Q:Tại sao?
31:50	K: Why? Why should we survive.	K:Tại sao? Tại sao chúng ta phải sống.
31:56	Q: May I restate the question? What is more important than survival?	Q:Tôi có thể nói lại câu hỏi? Điều gì quan trọng hơn sống còn?
32:01	K: Wait sir, we will come to that slowly.	K:Đợi đã, từ từ chúng ta sẽ đến đó.
32:03	Q: Sorry. K: Come to it, sir. Survival, and the lady says why should we survive. No, it is a serious question. Why should we survive? What is the need for survival and this urgency the demand to exist, to survive, to live? Go on sirs, answer it.	Q:Xin lỗi. K:Đến đó thôi. Sống còn, và cô này nói tại sao phải sống. Không, đây là vấn đề nghiêm túc. Tại sao phải sống? Điều gì cần để sống và yêu cầu đòi hỏi tồn tại, sống còn, sống? Tiếp tục, trả lời đi.
32:36	Q: Instinct.	Q:Bản năng.
32:40	K: Instinct. That is not it. The birds have the instinct to survive, the animals the reptiles, the most elemental you know everything demands survival.	K:Bản năng. Không đâu. Chim chóc có bản năng sống còn, muông thú bò sát, cơ bản nhất bạn biết mọi vật đòi hỏi sống còn.
32:57	Q: Pleasure in life.	Q:Thú vui đời sống.
33:01	Q: Fear of death.	Q:Sợ chết.
33:05	K: Fear.	K:Sợ.
33:07	Q: Because we think it is important to survive.	Q:Bởi chúng ta nghĩ sống là quan trọng.
33:11	K: I don't see why you even ask that question: what is the necessity of survival. Here you are! If you hadn't demanded to survive you wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be here, none of us would be here not the parents would produce us, they wouldn't exist either. So the world wouldn't exist. So anything that is dangerous to survival we must register. Right? Physically a car coming towards us we jump out of the way. Right? So there must be some kind of registration to protect the organism. Right? To have a roof, to have clothes, to have food that's apparently natural in every living thing. And so we avoid anything that is dangerous. Right?	K:Tôi không thấy tại sao phải đặt câu hỏi ấy: cần thiết gì phải sống. Các bạn đó! Nếu không muốn sống bạn không có đây và cũng không ở đây, không ai ở đây hết không cha mẹ nào sinh chúng ta, họ không muốn tồn tại. Thế giới không muốn tồn tại. Nên điều gì nguy hiểm đến sống còn là phải ghi lại. Phải không? Về vật lý xe hơi lao vào là chúng ta nhảy tránh. Phải không? Vậy phải có vài ghi nhớ để bảo vệ cơ thể. Phải không? Có một mái nhà, quần áo, thức ăn đó là tự nhiên cho đời sống hàng ngày. Và chúng ta tránh điều gì nguy hiểm. Phải không?
34:29	Let's go into it a little more. Is belief dangerous for physical survival?	Hãy tìm hiểu một chút. Niềm tin có nguy hiểm cho sống còn vật lý?
34:41	Q: Yes.	Q:Có.
34:44	K: So you have no belief.	K:Vậy bạn không có niềm tin.
34:47	Q: I've a particular belief a conditioned belief which does not	Q:Tôi có niềm tin riêng niềm tin bị qui định nên không...
34:52	K: I understand sir, I understand. I believe in something or in some idea, in some goal, and so on - a belief so I am asking each one of us, I am asking: is belief a danger to physical survival?	K:Hiểu, hiểu rồi. Tôi tin vào điều gì hay ý niệm, mục tiêu nào, v.v.. - niềm tin nên tôi hỏi mọi người: niềm tin có nguy hiểm cho sống còn vật lý?
35:12	Q: No. Q: It may be.	Q:Không. Q:Có thể.
35:14	Q: In Northern Ireland.	Q:Ở Bắc Ailen.
35:20	K: In Northern Ireland.	K:Ở Bắc Ailen.
35:25	Q: Let's not get into politics right now please.	Q:Đừng nói về chính trị lúc này.
35:31	K: I know, that	K:Tôi biết, nó...
35:34	Q: A misguided conscience can be	Q:Lương tâm sai lầm có thể là...
35:39	K: No, no, no, please. I am taking belief, don't begin too many things at once. Take one factor, go after it step by step into it. Is belief a danger to survival? I believe in Catholicism and you are a Protestant I am a Catholic, we believe in different things. Look what is happening in Northern Ireland what is happening in the Middle East and so on and so on. For physical survival, apparently belief is a most dangerous thing.	K:Không, không. Tôi nói niềm tin, đừng nói nhiều việc cùng lúc. Lấy một tác nhân, tìm hiểu từng bước một. Niềm tin có nguy hiểm sống còn? Tôi tin vào Cơ đốc còn bạn là Tin lành... Tôi là Cơ đốc, chúng ta tin khác nhau. Nhìn việc xảy ra ở Bắc Ailen điều xảy ra ở Trung đông và v.v.., v.v.. Vì sống còn vật lý, có vẻ niềm tin là nguy hiểm nhất.
36:19	Q: Sir, could I ask: do we not need belief in technical matters?	Q:Xin hỏi: không cần niềm tin trong vấn đề kỹ thuật sao?
36:25	K: In technical matters, why do you even there have belief? You work, and you learn and you go on. No, just please, go into it for yourself don't question me, I can but find out if you have belief, any form of belief and doesn't that belief divide people? Belief can be a conclusion, a concept an opinion, strongly-held opinion.	K:Vấn đề kỹ thuật, tại sao ở đó cũng có niềm tin? Bạn làm việc, học và bạn tiếp tục. Không, hãy tìm hiểu cho chính bạn đừng hỏi tôi, tôi có thể... nhưng hãy tìm xem nếu bạn tin, kiểu nào đó và không phải niềm tin chia rẽ con người sao? Niềm tin có thể là kết luận, quan niệm quan điểm, quan điểm cứng nhắc.
37:03	Q: Prejudice.	Q:Định kiến.
37:06	K: All that, included. We can put a lot of these words together but let's find out if each one of us has a certain belief: that I am a Christian, that I am an Englishmen a Frenchman, or - you know, all the rest of it. Isn't that a tremendous danger for physical survival.	K:Bao gồm cả. Có thể đặt hàng lô từ ngữ nhưng hãy tìm xem mỗi người có niềm tin nào không: tôi là Cơ đốc, tôi là người Anh người Pháp, hay - bạn biết cả, mọi thứ. Không phải là quá nguy hiểm cho sống còn sao.
37:32	Q: Yes, sir.	Q:Vâng.
37:34	K: You say yes, sir, but are you free of it?	K:Bạn nói phải, nhưng bạn có rời nó?
37:37	Q: No sir. (Laughter) K: Ah, then	Q:Không ạ. (Cười) K:À, vậy...
37:51	Q: Belief in the good in every one of these beliefs.	Q:Tin vào điều tốt là một trong các niềm tin.
37:55	K: So, I know. We teach in the school every one of these things. So history may be rewritten differently.	K:Tôi biết. Chúng ta dạy trong trường học mọi điều này. Lịch sử có lẽ được viết lại cách khác nhau.
38:06	Q: Surely belief is a good thing.	Q:Chắc chắn niềm tin là điều tốt.
38:08	K: You are not really interested to find out for yourself. For god's sake, do listen!	K:Bạn thực sự không thích tìm hiểu cho mình. Ơn trời, hãy nghe thôi.
38:15	Are you really serious to find out the necessity of registration and the inadequacy psychologically of any form of registration? We are discussing that. If you say belief is a danger then why do you hold on to it saying I am a Hindu, you are a Muslim or you are a Jew or you are a Communist - why do you hold on to these words?	Bạn có thực nghiêm túc tìm hiểu sự cần thiết của ghi lại và tâm lý bất toàn của mọi kiểu ghi lại? Chúng ta thảo luận điều đó. Nếu nói niềm tin là nguy hiểm sao bạn còn ôm giữ nó bảo tôi là Hinđu, bạn là Hồi hay là Do thái hay là Cộng sản - tại sao ôm giữ mấy chữ này?
38:51	Q: Because perhaps one doesn't see it completely.	Q:Có lẽ vì không thấy hết nó.
38:56	K: So, the gentleman suggests you don't see this completely. The danger, you don't see completely the danger of any form of belief which is obviously non-fact. Why do you hold on to that?	K:Anh bạn đây gợi ý bạn không thấy hết nó. Nguy hiểm, bạn không thấy hết nguy hiểm của kiểu tin tưởng nào là không thực tế. Tại sao bạn ôm giữ nó?
39:16	Q: All belief is a support structure.	Q:Mọi tin tưởng là cấu trúc chống đỡ.
39:23	K: Yes, belief is a support. If it is a dangerous support why don't you drop it?	K:Vâng, tin tưởng là trụ chống. Nếu trụ chống nguy hiểm sao không bỏ đi?
39:32	Q: I have dropped some, but I haven't seen	Q:Tôi đã bỏ vài cái, nhưng không thấy...
39:35	K: Ah! (Laughs)	K:À! (Cười)
39:36	Q: But not all of them probably when I see all of them only then will I drop them.	Q:Nhưng không bỏ hết có lẽ chỉ khi thấy hết rồi tôi sẽ bỏ.
39:42	K: It is like all of us sir we want to keep some which are pleasurable, which are pleasant which are comfortable and the others we discard.	K:Cũng như mọi người chúng ta muốn giữ lại vài cái dễ chịu, thích thú tiện lợi, còn mấy cái khác thì bỏ đi.
39:53	Q: I suggest, if I may, that it is not the sensations the physical sensations of a dangerous experience that we register but that it is the reasoning that we attribute to it at the time we register in our minds.	Q:Tôi xin đề nghị, không phải cảm giác cảm giác vật lý của kinh nghiệm nguy hiểm chúng ta ghi, mà chính là lý lẽ chúng ta gán cho nó, lúc đó chúng ta ghi vào trí.
40:06	K: That is right sir. Let's go step by step into it sir.	K:Đúng thế. Hãy đi từng bước.
40:13	We have talked about physical survival and anything that is dangerous to that must be totally avoided if you want to survive. And belief, any division between people is most destructive. Right? If you are a Christian, I am a Buddhist and I fight for my Buddhism and you fight for something else there is no physical security. Every war has shown this. Right? Every war is the result of our particular conditioning of our particular beliefs, etc. etc. So will you drop all those beliefs because that is the most dangerous thing for survival?	Chúng ta nói về sống còn vật lý và điều gì nguy hiểm cho nó phải loại trừ hết nếu chúng ta muốn sống. Và niềm tin, phân chia con người là phá hoại nhất. Phải không? Nếu bạn là Cơ đốc, tôi là Phật tử tôi đấu tranh cho Phật giáo, bạn cho điều gì khác là không có an toàn vật lý. Mọi cuộc chiến phơi bày điều này. Phải không? Mỗi cuộc chiến là kết quả của qui định riêng của niềm tin riêng, v.v.. Vậy bạn có bỏ hết mọi niềm tin bởi nó là nguy hiểm nhất cho sống còn?
41:17	Q: Are you saying that anybody who believes in anything from the people you mentioned yesterday, the politicians priests, gurus, is not being honest with themselves and that only Krishnamurti can put forth the truth? (Laughter) That only the truth is available from you and we must not believe anything from any other person.	Q:Ngài nói rằng ai tin tưởng điều gì từ người khác nói hôm qua, chính trị gia, thầy tu đạo sư, là không trung thực với chính họ và chỉ Krishnamurti mới có thể nói sự thật ư? (Cười) Sự thật chỉ giá trị từ ngài và chúng ta không nên tin điều gì từ ai khác.
41:50	K: I couldn't hear the whole of it sir somebody who has understood it please repeat it.	K:Tôi không thể nghe được hết ai nắm được xin lặp lại.
41:54	Q: It is not the belief that is the threat to survival it is the belief in the belief that is the threat to survival it is an attitude of mind the feeling that the belief is something true for all time.	Q:Không phải niềm tin đe dọa sống còn mà chính tin vào niềm tin mới đe dọa sống còn đó là thái độ trí óc cảm nhận rằng niềm tin là điều gì luôn đúng.
42:15	K: Sir, drugs are dangerous for survival drink is dangerous, smoking and all that business do we drop all those things because they are dangerous?	K:Ma tuý nguy hiểm sống còn rượu nguy hiểm, hút thuốc và v.v.. chúng ta không bỏ hết vì chúng nguy hiểm?
42:29	Q: When we see a cigarette K: Sir, that is just it. So really we are discussing intellectually verbally this idea of survival. We really don't care if we survive or not. We just exist. So let's proceed from there. Psychologically why do you register?	Q:Khi nhìn điếu thuốc... K:Đúng vậy thôi. Vậy chúng ta thực sự thảo luận ý niệm sống còn bằng trí, bằng lời. Chúng ta không quan tâm mình có sống hay không. Chúng ta chỉ tồn tại. Hãy bắt đầu từ đó. Về tâm lý tại sao bạn ghi lại?
43:00	Q: Fear.	Q:Sợ.
43:02	K: No, just look sir. Look into yourself. I can answer these questions very quickly, but do please enquire. It is a conversation between us two us two is all of us, you and I, a conversation in which we are saying: why do I, or you register psychologically anything?	K:Không, nhìn thôi. Nhìn chính bạn. Tôi có thể trả lời câu hỏi nhanh thôi, nhưng hãy tìm đi. Đây là nói chuyện giữa hai người chúng ta, bạn và tôi, trao đổi mình nói: tại sao tôi, hay bạn ghi lại điều gì, về tâm lý?
43:28	Q: Because we can't help it. It just happens.	Q:Bởi không thể giúp nó. Nó chỉ xảy ra.
43:34	K: It may be our conditioning. It may be our education. It may be our social condition and economic and so on and so on. So we are conditioned to accept this psychological registration. Now we are saying, all right, that is a fact. Now why?	K:Có thể là qui định. Có thể là giáo dục. Có thể là qui định xã hội, kinh tế, v.v.. Chúng ta bị qui định chấp nhận ghi lại tâm lý. Rồi chúng ta nói, được thôi, sự kiện mà. Tại sao?
43:59	Q: Does one actually register in fact?	Q:Ghi lại là thực sao?
44:09	K: Yes, one actually registers, that is the fact. But I am asking why? Do find out. Ask yourself sir, not me ask you, ask yourself: I register my hurts, my pleasures, what you said to me what you didn't do, your nagging, this, that, 10 different things. Why do I register psychologically?	K:Vâng, thực sự ghi lại, đó là sự kiện. Nhưng tôi hỏi tại sao? Tìm hiểu xem. Tự hỏi xem, không phải tôi hỏi bạn, hãy tự hỏi: tôi ghi xúc chạm, vui thú, điều bạn nói với tôi điều bạn không làm, càu nhàu, này nọ, 10 việc khác. Tại sao tôi ghi về tâm lý?
44:37	Q: Biological registration to protect the organism is transformed to psychological level.	Q:Ghi lại sinh học để bảo vệ cơ thể được chuyển vào mức độ tâm lý.
44:50	K: There is biological registration which we said is necessary and psychological registration. We said why do we register psychologically at all?	K:Ghi lại sinh học chúng ta nói là cần thiết và ghi lại tâm lý. Chúng ta hỏi tại sao ghi lại tâm lý?
45:03	Q: For security. To feel secure.	Q:Vì an toàn. Cảm thấy an toàn.
45:08	K: Is that so? Or you are isolating yourself which gives you the illusion that you are secure. You don't even	K:Phải vậy không? Hay bạn tự cô lập làm bạn ảo tưởng bạn an toàn. Bạn không...
45:26	Q: Because we have no choice.	Q:Bởi không có lựa chọn.
45:28	Q: Because we think we can solve things by thought.	Q:Vì nghĩ rằng có thể giải quyết vấn đề bằng suy nghĩ.
45:31	K: You say we have no choice - why?	K:Bạn nói không có lựa chọn - tại sao?
45:40	Q: It's human nature.	Q:Bản chất con người.
45:42	K: No, just The gentleman said we have no choice. What do you mean by the word 'choice'? Is danger a choice? And why do you choose? Q: Conditioning.	K:Không, chỉ...Anh bạn nói chúng ta không có chọn lựa. Ý bạn 'chọn lựa' là gì? Nguy hiểm là chọn lựa sao? Và tại sao bạn chọn lựa? Q:Qui định.
46:08	K: No, no, don't throw out	K:Không, không, đừng ném ra...
46:16	Q: Can we say biologically, let's say I like smoking or whatever. Right? This is dangerous but it is pleasurable so thought has a choice.	Q:Có thể nói về sinh học, như thích hút thuốc hay gì đó. Phải không? Nguy hiểm nhưng vui thú nên suy nghĩ có chọn lựa.
46:32	K: Yes. Sir we are trying to find out the meaning of that word 'choice' the depth of that word. I choose between two pieces of material for trousers or a coat.	K:Vâng. Chúng ta cố tìm ra ý nghĩa của chữ 'chọn lựa' chiều sâu của từ ấy. Tôi chọn giữa hai thứ như quần tây hay áo khoát.
46:48	Q: Does it exist? K: Wait, wait. Choose. And I choose to go to that place and not to that place. I choose this guru and not that guru. I choose to believe in this and not in that. I am questioning, asking you, if you will kindly listen to find out why do you choose, what is the source of your choice?	Q:Nó hiện hữu ư? K:Khoan, khoan. Chọn. Và tôi chọn đi đến nơi nào hoặc không đến đó. Tôi chọn đạo sư này và không phải đạo sư kia. Tôi chọn tin điều này và không phải điều kia. Tôi hỏi, hỏi bạn, nếu bạn vui lòng nghe để tìm hiểu tại sao chọn lựa, cái gì thôi thúc chọn lựa?
47:16	Q: Inattention.	Q:Không chú tâm.
47:20	Q: Protection and pleasure again. Protection and pleasure.	Q:Bảo vệ và cũng vui thú. Bảo vệ và vui thú.
47:24	K: No, no. When do you choose? Don't you choose when you are uncertain?	K:Không, không. Khi nào chọn lựa? Không phải chọn khi bạn không chắc chắn?
47:33	Q: When in conflict.	Q:Khi xung đột.
47:35	K: A man who is very clear - clear - there is no choice. It is so.	K:Một người thực sáng suốt - trong sáng - không chọn lựa. Vậy thôi.
47:42	Q: When you don't know.	Q:Khi không biết.
47:45	K: Ah, sir, that means what? That is right, when you don't know. Do you think you will find	K:Ồ, vậy là sao? Đúng rồi, khi bạn không biết. Bạn có nghĩ sẽ tìm...
47:57	Q: One thing you choose on a certainty, and the other on a non-certainty.	Q:Một là chọn lựa khi chắc chắn, và hai là khi không chắc.
48:02	K: Yes, that is the same thing. When one is very clear you don't choose when you know exactly what road to take to a certain place there is no choice. It is only when you are uncertain you begin to choose or ask, question, find out. So I am asking, psychologically choice exists only when you are confused, uncertain - no? When you are very clear there is no need for choice. So a mind that is confused chooses. You are all silent at that statement.	K:Vâng, như nhau thôi. Khi thật sáng suốt bạn không chọn lựa khi biết chắc con đường để đến nơi nào thì không chọn lựa. Chỉ khi không chắc bạn bắt đầu chọn lựa hay hỏi han, tìm kiếm. Nên tôi hỏi, về tâm lý chọn lựa chỉ có khi bạn rối loạn, không chắc - không à? Khi bạn thật sáng suốt không cần chọn lựa. Nên trí óc rối loạn sẽ chọn lựa. Bạn im lặng với câu nói này.
48:54	Q: Could we talk about why the mind is confused?	Q:Chúng ta có thể nói tại sao trí óc rối loạn?
48:57	K: Wait sir. I want to see - please, look at it sir. We are discussing, trying to talk over together why the brain registers. The brain biologically, we said organically, must register. Psychologically, inside, we are asking, why do we register at all? Somebody said because we have no choice in the matter. And the word 'choice' implies choosing between this and that. Now when you see danger you don't choose (laughs) - right? You see danger and move. You don't say 'Well, shall I go to the right or to the left is it right, is it wrong' - (Laughter)	K:Đợi đã. Tôi muốn thấy - hãy nhìn đi. Chúng ta thảo luận, cố gắng cùng bàn bạc tại sao trí óc ghi lại. Não sinh học, chúng ta nói hữu cơ, là phải ghi lại. Tâm lý, bên trong, chúng ta hỏi tại sao phải ghi lại? Ai đó nói bởi chúng ta không có chọn lựa vấn đề. Và chữ 'chọn lựa' hàm ý giữa này và nọ. Khi thấy nguy hiểm bạn không chọn lựa (cười) - phải không? Bạn thấy nguy hiểm và chạy đi. Bạn không nói... 'Nào, tôi sẽ đi bên phải hay bên trái này đúng kia sai' - (Cười)
49:57	So similarly I am asking: psychologically what is the need for registration? Does it help us to protect ourselves?	Cũng thế tôi hỏi: về tâm lý cái gì cần ghi lại? Nó có giúp chúng ta bảo vệ mình?
50:15	Q: Yes. When we set out in life we are concerned with the survival of the body but soon the mind takes over survival of the mind.	Q:Có. Khi sinh ra trên đời chúng ta quan tâm đến sống còn thân xác nhưng trí óc liền lấy làm sống còn cho nó.
50:24	K: That is what we are saying. Physical survival has slipped into psychological survival. Right? Q: Yes.	K:Chúng ta nói vậy. Sống còn vật lý lẻn vào sống còn tâm lý. Phải không? Q:Vâng.
50:34	K: Now I say, why?	K:Tôi hỏi, tại sao?
50:37	Q: It exercises a sense of identity.	Q:Nó làm cảm giác đồng hóa.
50:40	K: Identity with whom?	K:Đồng hoá với ai?
50:43	Q: Because we don't really know what is right. Not so sure.	Q:Bởi chúng ta không biết cái gì đúng. Không chắc chắn.
50:52	K: So you want to find out what is right.	K:Vậy tôi muốn tìm xem cái gì đúng.
50:55	Q: It's choice.	Q:Là chọn lựa.
50:56	K: How do you find out what is right when your mind is (laughs) a bit uncertain, and confused? No, you are going off, you don't stick to one thing at a time. Please forgive me. Psychologically why do I register?	K:Làm sao bạn tìm ra cái gì đúng khi trí óc... (Cười) hơi...không chắc, và rối loạn? Không, bạn đi xa rồi, không giữ một việc, lúc này. Xin thứ lỗi. Tâm lý tại sao ghi lại?
51:17	Q: Because we want to register. Q: Because I am not whole?	Q:Bởi chúng ta muốn ghi. Q:Vì chúng ta không toàn thể.
51:21	K: No, sir. Look into yourself, you will find out.	K:Không. Nhìn chính mình, bạn sẽ tìm ra.
51:28	Q: In order to build up experience.	Q:Để dựng lên kinh nghiệm.
51:31	K: In order to build up experience which is knowledge, which then becomes memory. And without memory, without knowledge you are nobody. So we say 'By Jove, I must have some knowledge about..' - right? - otherwise I am nobody. Is that what you are saying? You are not thinking about all this.	K:Để dựng lên kinh nghiệm là kiến thức, rồi thành ký ức. Và không ký ức, không kiến thức, bạn không là ai hết. Nên chúng ta nói 'Lạy trời, tôi phải có kiến thức về...' - phải không? - ngược lại tôi không là ai hết. Phải bạn nói thế? Bạn không nghĩ hết việc này.
52:04	Q: One wants to protect oneself	Q:Muốn bảo vệ mình...
52:06	K: One wants to protect oneself. Biologically, organically, you have. We have learnt how to do that very well. In spite of wars, in spite of terrorists, except the victims. Now we are saying psychologically do you protect yourself? What is it you are protecting?	K:Muốn bảo vệ mình. Sinh học, cơ thể, bạn có. Chúng ta học cách làm việc đó rất tốt. Dù chiến tranh, dù khủng bố, ngoại trừ nạn nhân. Chúng ta nói về tâm lý bạn bảo vệ mình à? Bạn bảo vệ gì?
52:30	Q: I think it is K: Do please answer me. What is it you are protecting?	Q:Tôi nghĩ là... K:Hãy trả lời xem. Bạn bảo vệ gì?
52:36	Q: All this memory.	Q:Mọi ký ức.
52:39	Q: Your idea of yourself.	Q:Ý niệm về mình.
52:43	Q: Our minds become so cluttered up with what is in our minds that it becomes greater than our experience of our bodies. So our minds become up there and that's why we are more aware of our minds than our bodies. And we think that it is our minds that we should protect.	Q:Trí óc thành ra lộn xộn với mọi thứ trong đó nó trở thành lớn hơn kinh nghiệm của cơ thể. Trí óc thành vậy đó và vì vậy chúng ta ý thức trí óc hơn cơ thể. Và chúng ta nghĩ chính trí óc cần bảo vệ.
52:58	K: So you give more attention to your body and less attention to the brain.	K:Vậy bạn để ý đến cơ thể nhiều hơn và bớt để ý đến não.
53:06	Q: No, the other way round.	Q:Không, cũng đi lòng vòng.
53:09	K: Yes, get more and more muddled.	K:Vâng, càng lộn xộn thêm.
53:11	Q: Yes. (Laughter)	Q:Vâng. (Cười)
53:15	K: You see sir, we psychologically register in order to be something. Right? Psychologically. Right? I register where I was born, that is simple. The brain registers because it has been trained to accept certain strata of society and that gives the person psychologically a position a sense of power, a sense of superiority. So this registration psychologically gradually builds up the ego, the 'me' - right? Isn't that so? Don't accept what I am saying, please look at yourself. If you didn't register psychologically would you have an ego?	K:Bạn xem, về tâm lý chúng ta ghi lại để là gì đó. Phải không? Tâm lý. Phải không? Tôi ghi nơi tôi sinh ra, cái đó đơn giản. Não ghi bởi vì nó được tập luyện để chấp nhận giai cấp xã hội và việc đó cho người ta địa vị về tâm lý cảm giác quyền lực, cảm giác cao cả. Nên ghi lại tâm lý dần dựng lên cái ngã, 'tôi' - phải không? Không phải à? Đừng chấp nhận lời tôi, hãy nhìn chính bạn. Nếu không ghi lại tâm lý, bạn có ngã không?
54:26	Q: No. K: Obviously not. Psychologically you are aggressive, abrasive, violent it gives you a certain sense of - you know, authority a certain sense of assurance. So this gradual process of registration psychologically builds the sense of the 'me'. That is a fact, no? Me, my opinion, my judgements, my wife, my husband my girl, your girl, boy, my house, my quality my experience, my hurts, my fears, my I am all that, psychologically. Right? It is a fact. You don't have to agree with the speaker, it is so. Then I say to myself, why do I build this ego why is there this constant building of the me?	Q:Không. K:Dĩ nhiên không. Tâm lý bạn hùng hổ, thô thiển, bạo lực nó cho bạn cảm giác - bạn biết đó, quyền uy cảm giác tự tin. Nên tiến trình ghi lại dần về tâm lý dựng lên cảm giác cái 'tôi'. Đó là sự kiện, không à? Tôi, ý kiến, phán đoán tôi, vợ tôi, chồng tôi con gái tôi, con gái, con trai bạn, nhà tôi, tính tôi kinh nghiệm tôi, xúc chạm, sợ hãi tôi là mọi cái đó, tâm lý. Phải không? Là sự kiện. Bạn không cần đồng ý với người nói, nó vậy. Rồi tự hỏi, tại sao tôi dựng lên cái ngã tại sao luôn xây dựng cái tôi?
55:46	Q: To protect it.	Q:Để bảo vệ.
55:47	K: What are you protecting?	K:Bảo vệ cái gì?
55:50	Q: I am just trying to hold on to it, more and more.	Q:Chỉ cố ôm giữ nó, thêm nữa.
55:52	K: Yes, sir. After building it up you hold on to it you cling to it, you say, 'I daren't break it down'	K:Vâng. Sau khi dựng nó lên, bạn ôm giữ nó bám vào nó, bạn nói, 'tôi không dám phá vỡ nó'
56:00	Q: It is like a sand castle. K: Yes, sand Don't go off into similes. Stick to one thing. So I say, what is the need for it because that brings enormous trouble, enormous pain? I am hurt, I am frightened, I am anxious, I am jealous I am greedy, I must not, I must be - you follow? this battle is going on constantly emotionally getting stronger and stronger, more intense. And what am I building? What is the reality of this structure? You understand? The reality, in the sense this is real the microphone in front of me is real. Actually I can touch it. Can I touch the psychological structure of the 'me'? I can't. So it is merely a building up of words. This is rather difficult to accept. One builds in relationship the hurts, the flattery the comfort and so gradually out of that I depend on you. And you hurt me by doing something so I cling to you not to be hurt. And so on and on and on and on. Now, why do we do this?	Q:Giống như thành bằng cát. K:Vâng, cát... Đừng ví von quá xa. Nắm một việc thôi. Vậy thì, cần nó làm gì bởi nó đem đến rối loạn, đau khổ cùng cực? Tôi bị xúc chạm, tôi sợ, tôi lo, tôi ghen tị tôi tham, tôi không nên, tôi phải là - kịp không? chiến trường ấy luôn diễn ra xúc động, và ngày càng thêm mạnh mẽ hơn. Và tôi dựng lên gì đây? Thực tế cấu trúc ấy là gì? Hiểu không? Thực tế, trong ý nghĩa đây là thực micrô trước mặt tôi là thực. Thực tôi có thể sờ được. Tôi có thể sờ cấu trúc tâm lý cái 'tôi'? Không thể. Vậy chỉ là dựng lên chữ nghĩa. Hơi khó chấp nhận. Trong quan hệ, bạn tạo ra xúc chạm, tâng bốc dễ chịu và dần dà từ đó tôi lệ thuộc bạn. Và bạn làm gì chạm tôi, tôi bám bạn để không bị xúc chạm. Và v.v.., v.v.. Nào, tại sao chúng ta làm vậy?
57:45	Q: We are protecting the part of us that does not know.	Q:Để bảo vệ phần mà chúng ta không biết.
57:48	K: Ah, no. We don't know what will happen if there is no building up the 'me'. Right? I will find out. I will find out if I say 'All right, I will find out there must be a process where the building up is not'. Right? Then I will find out what happens. But to speculate what might happen before this is such a waste of time and energy.	K:Ồ, không. Chúng ta không biết gì sẽ xảy ra nếu không dựng lên cái 'tôi'. Phải không? Sẽ tìm xem. Tôi sẽ tìm nếu tôi nói... 'Được thôi, tôi sẽ tìm phải có tiến trình nơi không có dựng lên'. Phải không? Rồi sẽ tìm xem điều gì xảy ra. Nhưng dự đoán cái có thể xảy ra là phí mất thời gian và năng lực.
58:32	Q: That's what makes the fear to do it.	Q:Việc đó gây sợ hãi khi làm.
58:36	K: So: first you build it up society helps, religions help everything helps to sustain the structure and then you are afraid to lose it. Right? And then you proceed to meditate how to get rid of this self - no? So before we say how to get rid of the self let us find out why you build it.	K:Vậy, trước hết bạn dựng nó lên xã hội giúp đỡ, tôn giáo giúp đỡ mọi thứ giúp duy trì cấu trúc và rồi bạn sợ mất nó. Phải không? Và bạn tiến hành thiền định làm sao rời bỏ ngã - không à? Vậy trước khi nói làm sao bỏ ngã hãy xem tại sao bạn dựng nó lên.
59:18	Q: The need for power.	Q:Cần quyền lực.
59:21	K: Yes, all right, it leads to power, put it any way you like. But the fact is this constant assertion this constant building up of the 'me', psychologically is it not a great danger? A great danger in your relationship with your wife with your girl, with society, with anything. Is it not a great danger because the danger is that you are in constant struggle, constant battle.	K:Vâng, đúng, nó đưa đến quyền lực, nói sao tuỳ bạn. Nhưng sự kiện là nó luôn khẳng định luôn dựng lên cái 'tôi', tâm lý không phải quá nguy hiểm sao? Quá nguy hiểm khi quan hệ với vợ với con, với xã hội, với mọi việc. Không phải quá nguy hiểm sao bởi nguy hiểm là bạn luôn cạnh tranh, luôn đấu đá.
1:00:02	Q: It makes it difficult for you to adapt.	Q:Làm thành quá khó để thích nghi.
1:00:05	K: No sir, find out why you are are you aware that you are building the 'me' up? And from that structure you have strong emotions you want to express, you want to assert.	K:Không, tìm xem tại sao bạn có thấy bạn dựng lên cái 'tôi'? Và từ cơ cấu đó bạn có cảm xúc mạnh bạn muốn bày tỏ, muốn khẳng định.
1:00:33	Q: Is it the need for pleasure?	Q:Nó có cần cho vui thú?
1:00:36	K: Yes, all right, it is pleasure and also it's fear and also it is greed and also it is constantly in pain, being hurt - you know. So don't take one thing and say it is that, it is the whole thing.	K:Vâng, đúng vậy, vui thú và cả sợ hãi và cả tham lam và cũng luôn đau đớn, xúc chạm - bạn biết cả. Vậy đừng lấy việc này nói việc kia, nó là toàn thể.
1:00:56	Q: Do we not believe in a myth is there not a myth that we believe in that if we don't survive psychologically we shan't survive.	Q:Chúng ta không tin thần thoại không có thần thoại để chúng ta tin sao nếu tâm lý không sống, chúng ta không sống.
1:01:04	K: It may be a myth sir, but can't you throw away that myth?	K:Có lẽ thần thoại, nhưng không thể ném bỏ thần thoại?
1:01:10	Q: Have we been conditioned to this myth?	Q:Chúng ta bị qui định với thần thoại?
1:01:12	K: Yes, if you are conditioned to this myth can't you uncondition yourself can't the mind say, 'It is nonsense'? See we don't want to do that and we talk round it all the time. If I am aggressive it gives me pleasure it gives the structure of aggressiveness makes me violent, rude, vulgar and I like it. All right, keep it! Don't talk about meditation, etc., etc., etc. If that is a fact find out why you register these things why you hold on, and whether it cannot be totally dissipated. If you say it cannot, that is the end of it. All right, it cannot. If somebody says, 'Find out if it can or not' 'Oh,' then you say, 'you are in an illusion you are an ass, you don't know anything about it'	K:Vâng, nếu bị qui định với thần thoại bạn không thể tự xóa qui định không thể nói, 'vô lý' sao? Xem nào, chúng ta không muốn làm và cứ nói lòng vòng mãi. Nếu tôi hung hăng, nó cho tôi khoái chí nó cho tôi cơ cấu của hung hăng làm tôi bạo lực, thô tục, và tôi thích nó. Được thôi, cứ giữ! Đừng nói về thiền định, v.v.., v.v.. Nếu đó là sự kiện, tìm xem tại sao bạn ghi nó tại sao ôm giữ, và phải chăng nó không thể tan mất. Nếu bạn nói không thể, vậy là chấm dứt. Được thôi, không thể. Nếu ai nói, 'tìm xem có thể hay không' 'Ồ', bạn nói, 'anh ảo tưởng đồ con lừa, anh không biết gì đâu'
1:02:26	So whereas I am suggesting psychologically there is no need for registration if you see the danger, real danger as you see a precipice, real danger of this psychological build up of the 'me' then you find out how to be free of it. Not you, you are part of that. There will be no toleration of the 'me' with all the opinions, judgements, evaluations aggressiveness, fear, pleasure, you know, the whole bundle of it.	Vậy trái lại, tôi đề nghị về tâm lý không cần thiết ghi lại nếu thấy nguy, thực nguy hiểm như thấy vách núi, thực nguy hiểm của việc dựng lên cái 'tôi' tâm lý bạn liền tìm cách thoát khỏi nó. Không phải bạn, bạn là thành phần của nó. Không có dung thứ cái 'tôi' với mọi quan điểm, phán đoán, đánh giá hung hăng, sợ hãi, vui thú, bạn biết mà, cả đống đó.
1:03:15	Q: What about the registrations that have already taken place from childhood before you are able to reason in this way?	Q:Còn về ghi lại đã xảy ra từ bé trước khi có lý lẽ kiểu này?
1:03:31	K: What about the registration that has taken place from childhood. If you see registration is a danger then the childhood registration till now disappears.	K:Thế nào về ghi lại đã xảy ra từ bé. Nếu bạn thấy ghi là nguy hiểm thì ghi lại từ bé đến nay xoá mất.
1:03:51	Q: We don't see it though, we don't want to.	Q:Nhưng chúng ta không thấy, không muốn.
1:03:53	K: That is all I am saying sir. We won't see the danger of it, we like it. We like our fear, we like our - we accept it aggressiveness, we like to live in constant battle with ourselves that gives us a sense of well-being, that at least you are alive. And so on and on and on.	K:Đó là những gì tôi đang nói. Chúng ta không thấy nguy, chúng ta thích nó. Thích sợ, thích - chúng ta chấp nhận hung hăng, thích sống luôn chiến đấu với mình nó cho cảm giác khỏe mạnh, ít nhất là còn sống. Và v.v.., v.v..
1:04:14	Q: Sir, because it is comfortable.	Q:Thưa, vì nó dễ chịu.
1:04:17	K: All right, sir, it is comfortable.	K:Phải rồi, dễ chịu.
1:04:19	Q: What can we do with the vacuum that is left?	Q:Chúng ta có thể làm gì với khoảng không rớt lại?
1:04:22	K: You see - what will you do if you are in a vacuum. That is, you don't know what will take place if there is no registration. Find out. Not say you will live in a vacuum. I say to you you won't. What is the matter? On the contrary, a man who is in constant battle is not living.	K:Nào - sẽ làm gì nếu bạn trong khoảng trống đó. Tức là, không biết việc gì sẽ xảy ra nếu không có ghi lại. Tìm đi. Đừng nói bạn sẽ sống trong khoảng trống. Tôi nói với bạn đừng. Sao nào? Ngược lại, người luôn tranh đấu không phải sống.
1:04:47	Q: How do we find out?	Q:Làm sao tìm ra?
1:04:50	K: How do I find out what?	K:Làm sao tìm cái gì?
1:04:54	Q: How can we find out what else there is? What is the alternative to having this big ego thing. How can we find out what the alternative is? How do we go about it? K: I don't understand.	Q:Làm sao tìm ra có gì khác? Có gì thay thế cái ngã to lớn kia. Làm sao có thể tìm ra cái gì thay thế? Làm sao bắt đầu? K:Tôi không hiểu.
1:05:08	Q: You have a bait. (Laughs)	Q:Ngài có miếng mồi. (Cười)
1:05:11	Q: No, he doesn't understand the first question.	Q:Không, ông không hiểu câu hỏi đầu tiên.
1:05:15	Q: How did you do it? How did you get rid of your ego?	Q:Ngài làm thế nào? Làm sao ngài bỏ cái ngã?
1:05:20	K: How do you know I have got rid of it? (Laughter) (Applause)	K:Làm sao bạn biết tôi bỏ nó? (Cười) (Vỗ tay)
1:05:28	No sir, no, don't bother about me. (Laughter) I have been a long time at it, from the age of fifteen. For me, when I was born, probably it was not there. But that is totally utterly irrelevant to you. What is relevant is you, why you hold on to this thing this miserable unfortunate suffering 'me'. And to escape from that you go off to India put on robes and put on beads - you know. (Laughter) All that nonsense goes on.	Không, không, đừng bận tâm về tôi. (Cười) Tôi đã quá lâu như vậy, từ thuở mười lăm. Với tôi, khi sinh ra, có lẽ đã không có nó. Nhưng hoàn toàn không liên quan đến bạn. Điều liên quan là, tại sao bạn ôm cứng điều này cái 'tôi' đau khổ bất hạnh này. Và để trốn nó bạn chạy tuốt qua Ấn độ khoát áo tu và đeo chuỗi hạt - (Cười) Mọi thứ vô nghĩa diễn ra.
1:06:18	Q: Because we live in the past or the future, not in the present.	Q:Vì sống quá khứ hay tương lai chứ không ở hiện tại.
1:06:22	K: Please don't bother about me. Just find out why you build see the consequences of building this structure the consequences of this structure and if you like it, if it pleases you if it gives you comfort, know in that comfort there is tremendous danger that you suffer, that you go through all kinds of neuroticisms you know what is happening. If you say that gives me comfort, stay with it.	K:Đừng bận tâm về tôi. Chỉ tìm tại sao bạn dựng lên xem hậu quả dựng lên cơ cấu ấy hậu quả của cấu trúc ấy và nếu bạn thích nó, nếu nó làm bạn vui nếu nó cho bạn dễ chịu, phải biết trong dễ chịu ấy có nguy hiểm lớn lắm bạn đau khổ, bạn trải qua mọi thứ loạn thần kinh bạn biết việc xảy ra. Nếu nói nó cho tôi dễ chịu, ở với nó.
1:07:02	Q: In other words we are too lazy to change.	Q:Nói cách khác, chúng ta quá lười thay đổi.
1:07:06	K: Yes. Now how is that? I perceive, or I am aware that I am building this structure thought is building this structure all the time sleeping, waking, dreaming, daydreaming, walking all the time, concerned about itself. Now what is the way, what is the process to end this thing - you don't ask that.	K:Vâng. Thế nào đây? Tôi thấy, hay nhận thức rằng tôi dựng lên cơ cấu ấy suy nghĩ luôn dựng lên cấu trúc ấy ngủ, thức, mơ, mộng tưởng, bước đi luôn luôn, quan tâm về chính nó. Vậy cách nào, tiến trình nào để chấm dứt nó - bạn không hỏi điều ấy.
1:07:49	Q: If I may - if I ask myself why I collect these identifying things about me who do I ask in order to get past the me?	Q:Nếu được - tôi tự hỏi sao tôi sưu tập những thứ đồng hóa về tôi tôi hỏi ai để vượt qua cái tôi?
1:08:09	K: No, I am asking you.	K:Không, tôi hỏi bạn.
1:08:11	Q: I understand. I don't mean ask a person. I say how does an I do this?	Q:Tôi hiểu. Tôi không định hỏi ai. Tôi nói sao cái ngã làm thế?
1:08:19	K: I'll show you sir in a minute, look.	K:Chút nữa tôi sẽ nói, xem nào.
1:08:21	Q: Okay.	Q:Vâng.
1:08:22	K: Is it a fact to you that you are building psychologically this illusory structure which has become such an extraordinary reality to one? Are you aware of the structure first?	K:Đó là sự kiện với bạn rằng bạn dựng lên cấu trúc ảo về tâm lý ấy nó trở thành thực tại kỳ cục với bạn à? Hay bạn nhận ra cấu trúc trước?
1:08:43	Q: I think so, yes.	Q:Vâng, tôi nghĩ vậy.
1:08:47	K: If one is aware of it, what do you mean by being aware of it? We have come back to the original question: what is the relationship between awareness and faith? There is no relationship whatsoever between awareness and faith. Faith is not a fact. It is a belief.	K:Nếu bạn nhận ra nó, ý bạn nhận ra nó là sao? Chúng ta quay trở lại câu hỏi ban đầu: liên hệ gì giữa nhận thức và niềm tin? Không có liên hệ gì hết giữa nhận thức và niềm tin. Tin không phải sự kiện. Nó là niềm tin.
1:09:19	Q: Define faith. What does faith mean to you? K: Nothing. Please don't bother about so are you aware of the structure? Please, let's be for 5 minutes serious. Are you aware of the structure in yourself? If you are, what do you mean by being aware? In that awareness is there a duality, that is I am aware of that? You understand my question sir? Q: Yes.	Q:Định nghĩa niềm tin. Tin có nghĩa gì với ngài? K:Không gì cả. Xin đừng bận tâm vậy bạn có nhận ra cấu trúc? Nào, hãy nghiêm túc 5 phút. Bạn có nhận ra cấu trúc trong chính bạn? Nếu có, ý bạn nhận ra là sao? Trong nhận thức ấy có nhị nguyên, tức là tôi nhận thức nó? Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không? Q:Vâng.
1:10:06	K: I am aware of that light, that light is different from me. Now am I in that same position when I say I am aware of the structure the structure being different from me? Or the structure is me?	K:Tôi biết ánh sáng kia, ánh sáng kia khác tôi. Cũng ở vị trí như vậy khi tôi nói tôi biết cấu trúc cấu trúc khác tôi? Hay cấu trúc là tôi?
1:10:33	Q: It is a very uncomfortable feeling to be.	Q:Cảm giác rất khó chịu là gì đó.
1:10:35	K: No, no. It is not a question of comfort or discomfort. Please move away from those things forgive me, you are just going back to something. Which is, am I aware as though the structure were something separate from me away over there, or near, and I who am aware is different from that? Or I am that? You understand?	K:Không, không. Không phải vấn đề dễ hay khó chịu. Hãy bỏ mấy việc ấy đi xin thứ lỗi, bạn sẽ quay lại việc gì đó. Nghĩa là, tôi có biết cấu trúc là điều gì tách rời tôi xa đàng kia, hay gần, và tôi nhận ra là khác với nó? Hay tôi là nó? Hiểu không?
1:11:12	Q: Yes. K: Obviously. Right? I am that. That is, the observer is the observed. Right?	Q:Vâng. K:Dĩ nhiên. Phải không? Tôi là nó. Tức là, người quan sát là vật quan sát. Phải không?
1:11:23	Q: It's a question if that is true or not.	Q:Vấn đề là nó thực hay không.
1:11:26	K: No, no. Question it sir, don't hesitate, see, it is so simple. I have built up this structure, the structure has been built. And part of the structure is, I am different from the structure. I am the soul, I am the great man, I am the, etc. etc. Or I am full of knowledge and the structure is not knowledge. You follow? So I am asking: do you see the structure as something separate from yourself?	K:Không, không. Hỏi đi, đừng ngần ngại, xem, đơn giản thôi. Tôi dựng lên cấu trúc ấy, cấu trúc đã được xây. Và thành phần cấu trúc là, tôi không khác cấu trúc. Tôi là linh hồn, là người vĩ đại, tôi là, v.v.. Hay tôi đầy kiến thức và cấu trúc không phải kiến thức. Kịp không? Nên tôi hỏi: bạn có thấy cấu trúc như vật gì tách rời bạn?
1:12:10	Q: No.	Q:Không.
1:12:12	K: If you really say no, that means - what does it mean?	K:Nếu thực sự bạn nói không, tức là - là sao?
1:12:20	Q: (Inaudible) K: No, just sir. This is really for half an hour do please put your minds to this, I beg of you. Are you different from your aggression? Obviously you are not. You are aggression, it is part of you.	Q:(Không nghe được) K:Không, tí thôi. Đó thực sự...trong nửa giờ hãy để tâm vào nó, xin bạn đó. Bạn có khác với hung hăng? Dĩ nhiên không. Bạn là hung hăng, nó là một phần bạn.
1:12:45	Q: But we alone can change it.	Q:Nhưng chỉ chúng ta có thể thay đổi nó.
1:12:49	K: No. Who is we? Q: I mean we ourselves. We can change.	K:Không. Ai là chúng ta? Q:Là chúng ta. Chúng ta có thể thay đổi.
1:12:58	Q: If I was just my aggression I wouldn't know about my aggression.	Q:Nếu tôi là hung hăng tôi không thể biết hung hăng.
1:13:04	K: Oh yes, you would. Q: How?	K:Ồ có, có thể. Q:Cách nào?
1:13:06	K: Your friends would tell you, 'Don't be so aggressive' (Laughter) if he is a friend. (Laughter)	K:Bạn bè sẽ bảo bạn, 'Đừng hung hăng thế' (Cười) nếu hắn là bạn bè. (Cười)
1:13:22	Q: You ask us to look into ourselves, that surely implies	Q:Ngài yêu cầu chúng tôi nhìn chính mình, đó hàm ý...
1:13:25	K: No, madam, I am asking this please listen to it quietly, if I may suggest. I am asking you how do you observe this structure? You can observe the building, see it away from you. But this structure you can't separate it say 'That is not me', it is you. Your fears, your quarrels, your ambitions, your aggressiveness your anxieties, all that structure is you. There is no argument about it.	K:Không, thưa bà, tôi hỏi thế xin hãy im lặng lắng nghe, tôi xin gợi ý. Tôi hỏi bạn làm sao quan sát cấu trúc ấy? Bạn có thể quan sát toà nhà, thấy nó đàng kia. Nhưng cấu trúc ấy bạn không thể tách rời nói 'Nó không là tôi', bạn đó. Bạn sợ hãi, cãi cọ, tham vọng, hung hăng lo âu, mọi cấu trúc đó là bạn. Không tranh cãi gì về nó.
1:14:04	Q: But you are not a united thing. You are all sorts of things and they are all in conflict with each other.	Q:Nhưng người không phải vật thống nhất. Họ là mọi thứ và họ xung đột lẫn nhau.
1:14:10	K: That is what I am saying.	K:Tôi đang nói thế.
1:14:11	Q: I can take the side of one part of you you can observe the other part. K: No. The observer is part of the observed.	Q:Tôi có thể lấy một phần này nó có thể quan sát phần kia. K:Không. Người quan sát là một phần của vật quan sát.
1:14:19	Q: Yes, but you couldn't observe yourself in totality if you were	Q:Vâng, nhưng không thể quan sát mình trọn vẹn nếu...
1:14:23	K: Oh, yes. I can observe, I can say I am fear. The next day I say I am pleasure. The third day I say oh, I am so jealous. But is part of the whole thing. Now that is what I am saying. Please if I may suggest, please give your attention to this, which is: as long as the 'me' separates himself from the structure the 'me' that separates itself from the structure as long as there is this division there will be conflict there will be fight, there will be nagging there will be anxiety, all the rest of it. But the fact is: the structure is you.	K:Ồ, có. Tôi có thể quan sát, có thể nói tôi sợ. Ngày sau tôi nói tôi vui thú. Ngày kế tôi nói ồ, tôi ghen tị. Nhưng là thành phần của toàn thể. Tôi đang nói vậy đó. Nào xin gợi ý, hãy chú tâm việc này, tức là: hễ cái 'tôi' còn tách rời nó với cấu trúc cái 'tôi' tách nó với cấu trúc hễ còn phân chia ấy thì sẽ còn xung đột sẽ còn đấu tranh, sẽ còn càu nhàu sẽ còn lo âu, mọi thứ. Nhưng sự kiện là: cấu trúc là bạn.
1:15:20	Q: Sir, the conflict seems to be inward, in the individual and it somehow seems to be a conflict between what you were talking about the senses not being fully alert, and also the mind the intellectual mind wanting to take individual problems and fears or tendencies.	Q:Thưa, xung đột hình như bên trong, trong cá nhân và nó có vẻ là xung đột giữa điều ngài nói về giác quan không tỉnh táo hết, và cả trí óc trí óc muốn nắm vấn đề cá nhân và sợ hãi hay khuynh hướng.
1:15:42	K: No sir, all that is included in that. Your individual tendencies, idiosyncrasies your particular talent, or lack of talent your capacity - include everything that thought has put together as me. That is the structure thought has created. Then thought says, 'I am different from the structure'	K:Không, mọi cái đó bao gồm trong ấy. Khuynh hướng cá nhân, tính kỳ cục tài năng riêng, hay kém tài khả năng - gồm mọi thứ đó suy nghĩ tạo thành cái tôi. Đó là cấu trúc suy nghĩ đã tạo nên. Rồi suy nghĩ nói, 'tôi khác với cấu trúc'
1:16:13	Q: I don't think everybody thinks that they are different from the structure.	Q:Tôi không nghĩ mọi người nghĩ họ khác với cấu trúc.
1:16:18	K: I don't know.	K:Tôi không biết.
1:16:20	Q: Well, I don't. K: Do you? I am not talking to you personally madam but I am just asking: does each one of us realise that we are the structure and structure is not separate from us? If you realise that, if that is an actual fact then a totally different action takes place.	Q:Tôi cũng không. K:Vậy à? Tôi không nói với cá nhân bà đâu nhưng tôi chỉ hỏi: mỗi người có nhận ra mình là cấu trúc và cấu trúc không khác chúng ta? Nếu thấy thế, nếu đó là sự kiện thực rồi thì hành động hoàn toàn khác xảy ra.
1:16:50	Q: Are you saying that the part of us that is made up of our belief is our outer shell and that in order to grow and evolve we have to break through something	Q:Ngài nói một phần của chúng ta được tạo bởi niềm tin, là vỏ ốc và để lớn lên và tiến hóa chúng ta phải phá vỡ điều gì...
1:17:04	K: No, no, no. I am not saying anything of that kind. I am just saying sir don't translate what I am saying into your own you know when I speak in India, which I do unfortunately, or fortunately they translate what I say into their own particular language and most of the languages in India are derived from Sanskrit and the words they use are loaded with tradition all kinds of meanings. I say, please don't translate what I am saying just listen to what I am saying which is very difficult because they immediately translate it. They think by translating they have understood. They have understood the traditional meaning say for instance of awareness. They have got a special Sanskrit word for it in that word there is all kinds of connotations in that word. So please, I am just saying as long as there is a difference between the structure and the observer there must be suppression, there must be conflict there must be escape, there must be going off to India to find how to do this and how to do that, meditate surely, not cooking, and so on and so on and so on. Whereas when there is the actual truth the fact that the observer is the observed the structure is me, me is not different from the structure then there is a totally different action. That is what I want to get at.	K:Không, không. Tôi không nói việc gì kiểu ấy. Tôi chỉ nói đừng diễn dịch lời tôi thành của bạn bạn biết khi tôi nói ở Ấn, tôi thật không may, hay may mắn họ dịch lời tôi thành ngôn ngữ riêng của họ và đa số ngôn ngữ Ấn xuất xứ từ Phạn ngữ và chữ họ dùng chỡ nặng truyền thống nhiều loại ý nghĩa. Tôi nói, đừng dịch lời tôi chỉ nghe những gì tôi nói việc rất khó khăn bởi họ dịch tức khắc. Họ nghĩ nhờ dịch họ hiểu. Họ hiểu nghĩa truyền thống ví dụ về nhận thức. Họ có chữ Phạn đặc biệt trong chữ ấy có nhiều loại ý nghĩa lắm. Vậy xin, tôi chỉ nói hễ còn khác biệt giữa cấu trúc và người quan sát tất phải có loại trừ, phải có xung đột phải có chạy trốn, phải đến tận Ấn độ để tìm cách làm cái này cái nọ, thiền định chắc rồi, không phải nấu ăn, v.v.., v.v.. Trong khi chỉ có một sự thật thực sự kiện người quan sát là vật quan sát. cấu trúc là tôi, tôi không khác với cấu trúc rồi thì có hành động hoàn toàn khác. Đó là điều tôi muốn nói đến.
1:18:55	Q: Sir, if you realise that and there is a sort of silence how do we keep that and not go back?	Q:Thưa, nếu tôi nhận ra nó và có một loại im lặng làm sao tôi giữ và không quay lại?
1:19:04	K: When you see a danger of a precipice, or a dangerous animal you don't go back to it, it is finished.	K:Khi bạn thấy nguy hiểm của vực sâu, hay thú dữ bạn không quay lại, chấm hết.
1:19:18	Q: It seems to me that this process of separation is a fundamental process of all the conditioning that goes on, and everything that I seem to do to try and go against this conditioning always seems to be just another part of this conditioning.	Q:Hình như tiến trình phân chia ấy là tiến trình cơ bản của mọi qui định diễn ra, và mọi việc như tôi làm cố gắng chống lại qui định ấy luôn có vẻ như chỉ là phần kia của qui định ấy.
1:19:33	K: Yes sir.	K:Vâng.
1:19:34	Q: How on earth do I get around that?	Q:Trên mặt đất này làm sao tôi bắt đầu đây?
1:19:36	K: I am showing to you something, you don't listen. Not that you must listen sir, but I am pointing out something. When you say 'I am that conditioning conditioning is not different from me' when that becomes an absolute, irrevocable truth, a fact then there is totally different action out of that fact.	K:Tôi đang bày ra điều gì, bạn đừng nghe. Bạn không nên nghe, nhưng tôi sẽ chỉ ra điều gì. Khi bạn nói 'tôi là qui định ấy qui định không khác tôi', khi ấy nó thành sự thật tuyệt đối, không thể chối cãi, sự kiện rồi thì từ đó có hành động hoàn toàn khác.
1:20:09	Q: Then what happens? K: Ah! Then what happens - that is exactly what it is. First you don't come to it but you say then tell me what happens. (Laughter) You don't want to climb the mountain, which is arduous which demands that you carry little, dangerous, be roped we have played with all this, I have done this, some part of it. It is dangerous to climb mountains. So you go lightly - right? not with heavy rucksack and all the rest of it.	Q:Rồi điều gì xảy ra? K:À! Rồi việc gì xảy ra - nó là y như vậy. Trước hết bạn đừng đến đó nhưng bạn nói hãy cho tôi biết việc xảy ra. (Cười) Bạn không muốn leo núi, tức là nhiệt tình nó đòi hỏi bạn mang theo ít, nguy hiểm, cột dây chúng ta đùa với nó, tôi đã làm chút ít. Leo núi là nguy hiểm. Vậy đi nhẹ thôi - phải không? không phải với ba lô đầy, v.v..
1:20:49	So this demands that you work, that you look. But unfortunately all kinds of interruptions take place. Some of you this morning I saw doing exercises good or bad, that is up to you but here you don't even give ten minutes to find out. Find out what actually takes place when the observer of the structure is the observer himself - the structure is the observer. Then you will find there is no conflict at all. Right? When you are that what can you do? You follow sir? So there is no conflict and therefore there is energy. I won't go more into it because that is too where there is energy, complete energy there is emptiness.	Nên việc này đòi hỏi bạn làm việc, nhìn. Nhưng bất hạnh thay mọi thứ cản trở xảy ra. Vài bạn tôi thấy sáng này tập thể dục tốt hay xấu là tuỳ bạn nhưng ở đây bạn không bỏ mười phút để tìm hiểu. Xem thực sự điều gì xảy ra khi người quan sát của cấu trúc là chính người quan sát - cấu trúc là người quan sát. Rồi bạn sẽ thấy không có xung đột gì cả. Phải không? Khi bạn là nó bạn có thể làm gì? Theo kịp không? Không có xung đột và vì vậy có năng lực. Tôi sẽ không đi sâu thêm bởi đã quá nơi có năng lực, năng lực hoàn toàn, là rỗng không.
1:22:19	That is enough for today, isn't it? Perhaps we can continue with this on Thursday. Would you agree to that please?	Hôm nay vậy là đủ, phải không? Có lẽ chúng ta sẽ tiếp tục vào Thứ năm. Bạn đồng ý vậy không?
1:22:35	Q: Yes. K: Bene.	Q:Vâng. K:Tốt.