Krishnamurti - Thông minh tối cao là không có ảo tưởng

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR83DSS2.0 - Thông minh tối cao là không có ảo tưởng
Buổi Thảo luận Học đường
Brockwood Park, Anh Quốc
16 tháng Mười 1983

0:27	Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about?	K: Chúng ta sẽ nói về điều gì?
0:33	Student: I think during the last talks we have talked about the question of intelligence, a bit we have touched it, and how to bring intelligence to our life so that somehow intelligence operates in our life. And I wonder if we could pursue that.	Q: Tôi nghĩ trong buổi nói chuyện vừa rồi chúng ta nói về vấn đề thông minh mới vừa nói sơ qua, và làm sao đem thông minh vào đời sống để cách nào đó thông minh hoạt động trong đời sống. Và chúng ta có thể tiếp tục vấn đề ấy không?
0:55	K: Right. Any other questions?	K: Vâng. Còn câu hỏi khác không?
0:58	S: When and why will a human being genuinely ask what is intelligence? Related to his question.	Q: khi nào và tại sao con người thành thật hỏi thông minh là gì? Liên quan đến vấn đề của anh ấy.
1:06	K: Why do we ask...	K: Tại sao chúng ta hỏi
1:08	S: And when.	Q: và khi nào.
1:09	K: When do we ask what is intelligence?	K: Khi nào chúng ta hỏi thông minh là gì.
1:12	S: Genuinely ask. K: Yes. Any other questions?	Q: thành thực hỏi. K: vâng. Còn câu hỏi khác không?
1:17	S: I wonder, what is the morning meeting for?	Q: Không biết buổi họp sáng nay để làm gì?
1:26	K: Good lord! Any other?	K: Lạy trời! (Cười) Còn nữa không?
1:35	S: Why do you give these talks?	Q: Tại sao ngài nói chuyện?
1:41	K: Why do you give talks. S: Yes.	K: Tại sao ngài nói chuyện. Q: Vâng. (Cười)
1:45	K: Would you like me to shut up?	K: Bạn muốn tôi im lặng sao? (Cười)
1:54	S: No. What is the purpose, if you have any purpose for giving these talks?	Q: Không. Mục đích? ngài có mục đích gì trong các buổi nói này
2:02	K: Why do I talk? I really – no, I mustn’t go into... Is that all?	K: Tại sao tôi nói? Thực sự - không, không cần tìm hiểu (Cười) Hết rồi sao?
2:20	S: How do you know all the things that you are speaking about?	Q: Làm sao ngài biết mọi việc ngài nói?
2:30	S: How do you know when you start becoming intelligent?	Q: Làm sao ngài biết khi nào ngài thông minh?
2:34	K: Yes – how do you know all that you are talking about. Not from books, not from other people. The ancient books, or the modern books, modern philosophy and so on. I’ll explain all this a little later as we go along. May I? Any other questions?	K: Vâng - làm sao ngài biết mọi điều ngài nói. Không từ sách vở không từ người khác. Sách cổ hay sách hiện nay, triết học hiện đại và v.v.. Tôi sẽ dẫn giãi một chút khi chúng ta cùng đi. Được chứ? Còn câu hỏi khác không?
3:12	S: How do you know when you start beginning to get intelligence, start becoming intelligent?	Q: Làm sao ngài biết khi nào ngài bắt đầu thông minh bắt đầu trở nên thông minh?
3:19	K: How do you know what intelligence is.	K: Làm sao ngài biết thông minh là gì.
3:23	S: No, in yourself when you start to become more intelligent.	Q: không, khi nào ngài bắt đầu thông minh hơn.
3:31	S: How can you tell you are becoming intelligent?	Q: Làm sao ngài có thể nói ngài thông minh.
3:34	K: We will find out presently. We were driving the other day nearly two weeks ago, along the Pacific coast of California. It was a lovely morning. It had rained, and generally in California it doesn’t rain that part of the year, and it was a really lovely morning. There wasn’t a cloud in the sky. And the Pacific was blue, light blue, so calm, like a great lake. It was not the same dark blue of the Mediterranean but it was a light blue, and the sun was just touching it making a great light on the sea. And in front of our car – Mrs Zimbalist was driving – and it was a good car, and on the bumper there was a sticker. The sticker said, ‘Question authority’. So we are going to question authority this morning. And in questioning authority we are going to find out for ourselves, in the understanding of the very complex problem of authority, we’ll begin to see what is, for ourselves, what is intelligence. Why we follow, why we accept, why we obey, whether authority and the acceptance of authority leads to intelligence. We are going to talk it over together. Right? Right. Do you question authority? You know what that word means? We won’t go into the root meaning of that word the etymological meaning, but authority. There are various kinds of authority. Right? The authority of the government, however rotten that government is, the authority of totalitarian governments, the authority of the policeman, the authority of a lawyer, the authority of a judge, the authority of the pope, the authority of a priest. Right? All those are outside, outside the skin. But inwardly, inside the skin, there is the authority of experience, of one’s own experience, one’s own convictions. Right? Are you following all this? Authority of one’s own opinions, authority of one’s own convictions, ‘I am convinced I am a great man’ – that becomes the authority. ‘I am convinced I am a good poet’, whereas I may be a rotten poet but I am convinced. I am convinced about so many things. So experience, knowledge become one of the sources of authority. Right? Are you following? Because we are examining a very complex problem, the problem of authority. The authority of the parents, the authority of tradition, the authority of the majority of the voters. Right? The authority of the specialist, the authority of the scientist – there are several of them here – the authority of the Bible and the Indian so-called sacred books and so on – the Koran, you know what the Koran is, the Bible of the Islam, of Islamic world, the Mohammedan world, they accept that completely, obey. So there are many, many forms of authority. Right? Now, what do you question, when you question authority, what are you questioning? The authority of rules, the authority of those educators who tell you, inform you? Now, please discuss this with me because in enquiring very carefully step by step I’m going deeper and deeper into this question, you will yourself begin to awaken your own intelligence. You understand? Your own perception, your own... how to look at things intelligently, without authority. Is this clear? Have I made my statement clear? You are clear?	K: Chúng ta sẽ tìm hiểu ngay thôi. Hôm nọ chúng tôi lái xe khoảng hai tuần trước, dọc bờ Thái bình dương, California. Buổi sáng đáng yêu Trời mưa, và hầu như California không mưa vào khoảng ấy trong năm, và thực là một buổi sáng đẹp. Trời không mây. Và Thái bình dương trong xanh, yên lặng như mặt hồ bao la. Không giống xanh thẳm của biển Địa trung hải mà xanh trong, và mặt trời như chạm biển làm biển sáng rực. Và ghế trước - Bà Zimbalist đang lái xe xe tốt thật, và trên cản xe có dán tờ giấy. Tờ giấy viết, 'Hãy hỏi uy quyền'. Vậy chúng ta sẽ nói vấn đề uy quyền sáng nay. (cười) Và khi nói vấn đề uy quyền chúng ta sẽ tìm xem để thấu hiểu vấn đề phức tạp ấy chúng ta sẽ bắt đầu xem coi thông minh là gì. Tại sao chúng ta đi theo, chấp nhận, vâng lời có phải uy quyền và chấp nhận uy quyền đưa đến thông minh? Chúng ta sẽ cùng thảo luận. Đúng không? Đúng. Bạn có đặt vấn đề uy quyền? Bạn biết từ ấy nghĩa gì không? Chúng ta sẽ không tìm hiểu gốc từ, thuật ngữ mà là uy quyền. Có nhiều loại uy quyền. Phải không? Quyền lực chính phủ, dù mục nát thế nào quyền lực chính phủ độc tài quyền cảnh sát quyền luật sư, quyền thẩm phán quyền giáo hoàng, quyền thầy tu. Phải không? Mọi cái đó đều bên ngoài. Nhưng bên ngoài có uy quyền của kinh nghiệm của kinh nghiệm riêng, lý lẽ riêng. Phải không? Bạn theo kịp không? Uy quyền của ý kiến riêng uy quyền của lý lẽ riêng tôi tin chắc tôi vĩ đại - điều đó thành uy quyền. Tôi tin chắc tôi là nhà thơ lớn trong khi có thể tôi là nhà thơ tệ, nhưng lại tin thế. Tôi tin chắc nhiều việc lắm. Vậy kinh nghiệm, kiến thức thành khởi nguồn của uy quyền. Phải không? Bạn theo kịp chứ? Bởi vì chúng ta xem xét vấn đề rất phức tạp vấn đề uy quyền. Uy quyền của cha mẹ uy quyền của truyền thống uy quyền của đa số cử tri. Phải không? Quyền của chuyên gia quyền của nhà khoa học - có vài người ở đây quyền của kinh thánh và cái gọi là kinh điển Ấn độ v.v.. - kinh Cô ran; bạn biết Cô ran là kinh thánh Hồi giáo, thế giới đạo Hồi, Mahômét họ chấp nhận, tuân theo hoàn toàn. Vậy là có rất nhiều hình thức uy quyền. Phải không? Hiện giờ bạn hỏi gì khi đặt vấn đề uy quyền, bạn hỏi gì? Uy quyền của luật lệ uy quyền của các nhà giáo dạy bạn? Hãy cùng thảo luận bởi vì tìm tòi thật kỹ, từng bước tôi sẽ tìm hiểu vấn đề sâu hơn chính bạn sẽ bắt đầu đánh thức thông minh. Bạn hiểu không? Nhận thức của bạn làm sao nhìn sự việc một cách thông minh, không uy quyền. Rõ chứ? tôi nói rõ không?
10:40	S: Yes. K: Good! Are you quite sure? The authority that exists outside of us – law, governments, the majority of people who vote for a prime minister, the authority of the policeman, the authority of a lawyer, the authority of a surgeon, the scientists who are building the nuclear bomb, the authority of the totalitarian states and so on – outside. Inside of us, I say, ‘I know’, that becomes the authority. Or I am convinced, I am quite sure my opinion is correct. I am quite sure my experience tells me what to do. That becomes the authority. Or I practise a certain discipline and that has become my authority. You understand? So, we are going to question all this. The outer and the inner, the environment and the psychological realm. Clear? Now, let’s proceed. We are going to question, not say it is right or wrong, but enquire, question, doubt, ask. Now let’s begin. The authority of the policeman. Right? Do you question that?	Bạn hiểu không? Q: Vâng. K: Tốt! Chắc không? Uy quyền hiện diện quanh ta luật pháp, chính phủ, đa số người bỏ phiếu cho thủ tướng quyền cảnh sát, quyền của luật sư quyền của nhà phẫu thuật giới khoa học chế tạo bom hạt nhân quyền của nhà nước độc tài v.v.. - bên ngoài Bên trong chúng ta, tôi nói, 'tôi biết' liền thành uy quyền. Hay tôi tin chắc, tôi cam đoan ý kiến tôi đúng. Tôi chắc chắn kinh nghiệm chỉ bảo tôi làm. Điều đó thành uy quyền. Hay tôi thực hành giới luật nào rồi nó thành uy quyền. Bạn hiểu không? Vậy chúng ta sẽ đặt vấn đề tất cả. Bên ngoài và bên trong xung quanh và lãnh vực tâm lý. Rõ chứ? Cùng bắt đầu nhé. Chúng ta sẽ hỏi, không nói đúng sai mà tìm tòi, nghi vấn, hỏi han. Bắt đầu. Uy quyền của cảnh sát. Phải không? Bạn hỏi điều ấy chứ?
13:05	S: Isn’t it necessary? K: But question it first. Don’t accept, don’t say it is necessary. You see, you have already accepted authority.	Q: Không cần thiết sao? K: Nhưng hỏi điều này trước. Đừng chấp nhận, đừng bảo điều đó cần thiết. Bạn hiểu bạn đã chấp nhận uy quyền.
13:20	S: Yes, but there’s not very much that we can do about it.	Q: Vâng. Vâng, nhưng chúng ta không thể làm gì nhiều đâu.
13:24	K: No, you can’t do anything about it.	K: Không, bạn chẳng thể làm gì.
13:27	S: We don’t want that kind of authority.	Q: Chúng ta không thích loại uy quyền ấy. Ngài không thể K: Bạn không ưa loại uy quyền đó?
13:29	K: You don’t want that kind of authority? Suppose I have been driving in France on the right side of the road and I come here, I am used to driving a car on the right side of the road in France, in Austria and so on, and I come here and I keep to that side. Right? To the right side, and there will be accidents. Right? So the policeman says, ‘Hey, get back, go to the left’. But if I insist on keeping to the right, he will give me a ticket. So I accept the authority of a policeman who tells me, ‘You are driving in the wrong lane, please kindly go to the left’ because that is the custom, that is the law in this country. Right?	Giả sử tôi lái xe ở Pháp phía bên phải đường và đến đây, tôi đã quen lái xe bên phải đường ở Pháp, Áo v.v.. và đến đây tôi vẫn giữ như vậy. Đúng không? Bên phải đường, và tôi sẽbị tai nạn. Phải không? Thế là tôi phảicảnh sát bảo, 'này, lùi lại đi phía bên trái'. Nhưng nếu tôi cương quyết giữ bên phải anh ta sẽ phạt. Vậy tôi chấp nhận quyền cảnh sát bảo tôi 'anh lái xe sai tuyến, hãy vui lòng lái xe bên trái' bởi vì đó là thói quen, là luật lệ của xứ này. Phải không?
14:39	S: That’s quite sensible. K: That’s quite sensible – it is. Now, then the authority of governments. This is much more complex. The authority of the government says, you must become a soldier. In Europe you have to become a soldier for two years, fortunately not for women. In Switzerland, in France, in all the European countries, you have for two years, you have to be a soldier. Do you accept that authority?	Q: Việc này rất nhạy cảm. K: Điều rất nhạy cảm - vậy đó. Giờ đến quyền lực chính phủ. Việc này rất phức tạp. Quyền lực chính phủ bảo, bạn phải đi lính. Ở châu Âu bạn phải đi lính hai năm may mắn nữ thì không. Thụy sĩ, Pháp, các nước châu Âu khác bạn phải đi lính hai năm. Bạn có chấp nhận uy quyền không?
15:37	S: If you don’t, is there anything...	Q: Nếu không thì sao chứ K: Không, chỉ suy tư
15:39	K: No, just think it out, look at it carefully. They say, ‘We have to protect our country’. Right? In case of war we are prepared to fight the enemy. Have you ever heard of that phrase, a General says, ‘We have met the enemy – it is us’. Have you heard of that phrase? Have you understood that phrase? We have met the enemy – it’s us. We are the enemy to ourselves. Sorry! So find out. The government says – all governments, the most inefficient government also says, ‘You must fight for the country’. There is a tremendous authority. Right? What’s your response to that?	nhìn kỹ việc này. Họ bảo, 'chúng ta phải bảo vệ đất nước'. Phải không? Nếu có chiến tranh chúng ta chuẩn bị đánh quân địch. Bạn có từng nghe câu ấy chưa, vị Tướng bảo 'Ta đối mặt quân thù, là chính ta'. Bạn có nghe câu ấy chưa? Bạn có hiểu câu ấy chăng? Ta giáp mặt quân thù, là chính ta. Chúng ta là kẻ thù của chính mình. Xin lỗi! Vậy hãy tìm xem. Chính phủ bảo - mọi chính phủ chính phủ bất lực nhất cũng bảo 'Anh phải chiến đấu cho đất nước'. Quyền lực lớn lao. Phải không? Bạn trả lời sao?
17:07	S: If I was in that situation, and I was, say, a Swiss citizen and I am asked to join the army, I wouldn’t do it.	Q: Trong trường hợp đó, ví dụ, tôi là công dân Thụy sĩ và bị gọi đi lính, tôi không đi.
17:17	K: Then you would go to prison. S: No, I’d go to another country.	K: Có thể bạn bị tù. Q: Không, tôi sang nước khác.
17:21	K: They won’t let you.	K: (Cười) Họ không cho. Q: Ồ, sẽ có cách.
17:24	S: Well, there are ways.	K: À, vâng.
17:26	K: Oh, yes. But you can never go back to your country again.	Nhưng bạn không thể về nước nữa.
17:30	S: Yes.	Q: Vâng.
17:31	K: I know several people who have done this. But they can never go back to their own country. Is that the answer? Question, question what you are saying.	K: Tôi biết vài người đã làm thế. Nhưng họ không thể về nước nữa. Đó là câu trả lời sao? Hãy hỏi, hỏi điều bạn nói.
17:51	S: Perhaps to some degree it is.	Q: Có lẽ đến mức độ nào đó.
17:54	K: I said, question, sir. Question what you will do when governments says, ‘You must become’, you are conscripted, drafted as they use the word in America – drafted, here the word is ‘conscripted’, and you are asked to join the army. That is supreme authority. Do you question that?	K: Tôi nói hỏi. Hãy hỏi điều bạn sẽ làm khi chính quyền bảo bạn phải thi hành nghĩa vụ, đi quân dịch, từ ngữ Mỹ dùng ở đây là nghĩa vụ quân sự, và bạn bị gọi đi lính. Đó là quyền lực tối cao. Bạn có hỏi điều ấy không?
18:34	S: By question, do you mean where authority comes from?	Q: Hỏi, ý ngài là quyền lực từ đâu đến?
18:37	K: No. The government says you must.	K: Không. Chính phủ bảo bạn phải.
18:41	S: OK, what exactly do you mean by question?	Q: Vâng, ý ngài chính xác hỏi là gì?
18:44	K: I mean by question, we are questioning authority – you understand?	K: Hỏi, chúng ta đặt vấn đề uy quyền - bạn hiểu không?
18:50	S: It’s not clear, I don’t understand.	Q: Chưa rõ, tôi không hiểu.
18:54	K: I’ve explained, sir, haven’t I, haven’t we? I told you the sticker in California, it said, ‘Question authority’. That means – do you accept authority? Where do you accept authority, where do you disregard authority? Right? Now, the government says to you, as you are a young man or going to be when you are 18, 19, 20, says, ‘You must become a soldier for two years’. And they give you other alternatives which are rather boring, or when there is a war all the people, grown-up boys and young men are conscripted. There is that authority of the government. Do you question that authority?	K: Tôi đã giải thích rồi, phải không? Tôi nói tờ giấy dán trên cản xe ở Cali viết, 'Hãy đặt vấn đề uy quyền'. Nghĩa là bạn có chấp nhận uy quyền? Bạn chấp nhận chỗ nào? chỗ nào không? Phải không? Chính phủ bảo, khi bạn còn trẻ hay khi đến tuổi 18, 19, 20 bạn phải đi lính hai năm. Và họ cho bạn chọn lựa khác, còn chán hơn hay khi có chiến tranh mọi người thanh niên trai tráng đều phải nhập ngũ. Đó là quyền của chính phủ. Bạn có đặt vấn đề uy quyền ấy không?
19:58	S: Yes, but what can you do about it?	Q: Vâng, nhưng ngài có thể làm gì?
20:00	K: You are going to find out. We are going to find out. But first question, is that what you will do when somebody, government asks you to become a soldier? This is a very complex problem, I don’t know if you can go into this. They say, ‘We must protect our country’. Right? So you have to question, what is our country?	K: Bạn sẽ tìm hiểu. Chúng ta sẽ tìm hiểu. Câu hỏi đầu tiên là bạn sẽ làm gì khi ai đó chính phủ gọi bạn đi lính? Đây là vấn đề rất phức tạp, không biết bạn có thể tìm hiểu không? Họ bảo, 'Chúng ta phải bảo vệ đất nước'. Phải không? Đúng không? Vậy nên bạn phải hỏi, đất nước là gì?
20:40	S: It’s all that we know around us, our language.	Q: Là mọi thứ ta biết quanh mình, ngôn ngữ
20:42	K: Which means what? S: That which we are familiar with.	K: Nghĩa là sao? Q: Những cái ta quen thuộc.
20:46	K: Take, for instance, England says to you, the British government says to you, ‘We are going to be attacked by somebody and you must train yourself, carry a gun and all the rest of it, and fight’. Now what’s your response? Poor chaps!	K: Ví dụ, nước Anh bảo bạn chính phủ Anh bảo bạn chúng ta sẽ tấn công ai đó và bạn phải tập luyện, mang súng ống v.v.., và Bạn trả lời sao? Anh bạn tội nghiệp!
21:20	S: You probably wouldn’t want to. K: Probably you don’t want to. Then they either, if you are in Russia or in other countries, they shoot you. Or they say, ‘If you don’t want to, what is your reason?’	Q: Có lẽ là không muốn. K: Có lẽ là không thích. Rồi thì, nếu ở Nga, hay nước khác họ sẽ bắn bạn thôi. Hay họ bảo, nếu anh không muốn, thì lý do gì?
21:40	S: You don’t want to kill another man. You don’t want to kill another human being.	Q: Không thích giết người. Không muốn giết kẻ khác.
21:45	K: So is that your conviction?	K: Đó là lý lẽ của bạn?
21:49	S: No, I think... K: Careful. I am asking a question. He says, you don’t want to kill another human being. Is that your conviction, is that your religion? Do your parents also are religious that way? They ask all these questions, old boy, I am not inventing them.	Q: Không, tôi nghĩ K: Cẩn thận. Tôi hỏi một câu. Anh ta nói, không muốn giết người có phải lý lẽ của anh, tôn giáo của anh cha mẹ anh cũng cùng tôn giáo ấy? Họ đặt mọi câu hỏi, anh bạn, không phải tôi đặt đâu.
22:12	S: What’s the point of killing somebody else?	Q: Vấn đề giết người là sao?
22:18	K: What is the point of killing people? They have done this for 5000 years and more. The Greeks did it, the Egyptians did it, the Sumerians and Babylonians and so on, so on, so on. Great empires were formed that way, killing people. The British empire which lasted a 150 years, not like the Persian Empire, or the Greek, or the Egyptian, the Egyptian civilization for 3000 years, undisturbed. So, people have been killing each other for the last 5000 years and more. So what’s your answer?	K: Vấn đề giết người là gì? Họ đã làm thế 5000 năm nay và hơn thế. Hy lạp làm thế, Ai cập làm thế người Xume, người babilon v.v.. Các đại đế hình thành như thế, giết người. Đế chế Anh tồn tại 150 năm không như Đế chế Ba tư, Hy lạp hay Ai cập văn minh Hy lạp đã 3000 năm, không bị xáo trộn. Vậy con người giết nhau đã 5000 năm hay hơn nữa. Bạn trả lời sao?
23:27	S: Perhaps you just become a soldier. Perhaps you become a soldier but not the attitude of you doing it for your country and not because if you protest, the very fact that you are protesting, in a sense that becomes your own belief, your fire.	Q: Có lẽ chỉ làm lính. Có thể là lính nhưng không với thái độ vì đất nước và không vớiBởi vì nếu chống đối, thực tế ý nghĩa điều đó là niềm tin, nhiệt tình của bạn.
23:49	K: So you become a soldier and you are ready to kill?	K: Vậy bạn đi lính và sẵn sàng giết.
23:55	S: No. K: He said so. He said you might become a soldier. That means you are prepared to kill for your country. Right? Wait, wait, wait, go slowly. What’s your country, what do you mean, your country? We are questioning everything, you understand? What do you mean, your country?	Q: Không. K: Anh ta nói thế. Anh ấy nói có thể đi lính. Nghĩa là bạn sẵn sàng giết chóc vì đất nước. Phải không? Khoan, khoan, đi chậm thôi. Đất nước là gì? ý nghĩa quốc gia là gì? Chúng ta hỏi mọi việc, bạn hiểu không? Đất nước là gì?
24:25	S: It’s the American way, this is the way it's done.	Q: Đó là đường lối Mỹ, đó là cách thức của họ.
24:27	S: I mean you don’t go in it patriotically, if you don’t, perhaps, you will be put in prison.	Q: Ý là không dự vào kiểu yêu nước nếu không có thể bị bỏ tù.
24:37	K: I know. You don’t go in patriotically, you don’t go in for your personal reasons, but you are going to kill people.	K: Tôi biết. Không dự phần như yêu nước, không tham gia vì lý do riêng nhưng bạn sẽ giết người.
24:48	S: We tend not to, we don’t kill anybody, just carry a gun.	Q: Chúng ta không định thế, không giết ai, chỉ mang súng. (Cười)
24:58	K: Then they kill you. All right. I know a man who became a soldier, he was forced, and the officer said, ‘We are going to the front’, and the soldier, this friend of mine said, ‘All right, but when I get to the front, you are the officer, I am going to shoot you first because you have forced me to that position’. And they said, ‘This man is crazy’, and they had psychologists and the psychiatrists who examined but he kept on repeating that, so they said, ‘Get back home’. But don’t play tricks like that. So, you understand, we’re questioning – you are not questioning. I am sent, the Indian government, fortunately they can’t, I am too old, they questioned me, as an Indian, and said, ‘You must become a soldier and you must protect your country’. I questioned and said, ‘What is my country, what do you mean my country?’ Right? Question it. Who says it’s my country?	K: Rồi họ sẽ giết bạn. Tốt thôi. Tôi biết một người lính, bị bắt buộc và sĩ quan bảo, 'Chúng ta đi trước' và anh lính, một người bạn tôi, bảo 'Tốt thôi, nhưng khi đi trước, ngài là sĩ quan tôi sẽ bắn ngài trước, bởi vì ngài ép tôi. Và họ bảo anh này điên họ có chuyên gia tâm lý, và chuyên gia tâm lý xem xét nhưng anh ta lặp lại điều đó, vậy là họ bảo, 'về nhà đi'. Nhưng đừng đùa như thế. Vậy là, bạn biết đó, chúng ta hỏi - bạn không hỏi. Tôi bị đuổi đi, chính phủ Ấn may mắn họ không thể, tôi quá già họ thẩm vấn tôi, như ở Anh, và bảo tôi phải đi lính phải bảo vệ đất nước. Tôi hỏi, 'Đất nước tôi là gì đất nước nghĩa là gì? Phải không? Hãy hỏi xem. Ai nói đây là đất nước tôi?
26:34	S: Yes, but they won’t listen to that.	Q: Vâng nhưng họ sẽ không nghe điều ấy.
26:38	K: I am questioning myself, forget what the government says.	K: Tôi tự hỏi, quên lời chính phủ đi.
26:41	S: What do you mean by your country?	Q: Đất nước nghĩa là gì?
26:43	K: That’s what I am asking.	K: Điều ấy tôi hỏi bạn. (Cười)
26:46	S: The country that you were born in is supposed to be your country.	Q: Xứ xở nơi mình sinh ra được xem là đất nước mình.
26:50	K: Where you are born.	K: Nơi bạn sinh ra.
26:51	S: Yes, that’s supposed to be your country.	Q: Vâng, đó được coi là đất nước mình.
26:53	K: That is supposed to be your country. Why do I say, ‘It’s my country’?	K: Đó được xem là đất nước mình. Tại sao tôi nói, đây là đất nước tôi?
26:58	S: Because you’ve lived there.	Q: Bởi ngài sống ở đó và
27:00	K: Yes, and you say, it’s your country. And I say, ‘It’s my country’. Right? Why do we say this? Why do grown-up people say this, and the young people say it, and it has been the tradition of thousands of years, it’s my country, I am going to protect it; it’s your country, you are going to protect it, let’s kill each other.	K: Vâng, và bạn bảo đó là đất nước tôi. Và tôi nói, đây là đất nước tôi. Phải không? Tại sao chúng ta nói thế? Tại sao người trưởng thành nói thế và thanh niên cũng nói thế và đó là truyền thống bao ngàn năm - đây là đất nước tôi tôi sẽ bảo vệ nó; kia là đất nước bạn, bạn sẽ bảo vệ nó. hãy giết nhau.
27:28	S: Because they want to possess it, and if that possession is threatened by another country, who feel possessive to their country, then you obviously are going to try to fight to possess your country.	Q: Vì họ muốn sở hữu nó và nếu sở hữu ấy bị nước khác đe dọa người ta cảm giác sở hữu đất nước mình nên dĩ nhiên cố gắng chiến đấu để bảo vệ nó.
27:41	K: I know. So you are willing to kill for your country.	K: Tôi hiểu. Vậy bạn vui lòng giết chóc vì đất nước Q: Không.
27:43	S: No.	Q: Nếu nước khác, Nga
27:46	S: If that other country, Russia, if we had a war and they took over our country...	nếu chúng ta có chiến tranh và họ chiếm đất nước mình
27:57	K: May I ask your name? S: Tessa.	K: Xin hỏi tên bạn? Q: Tessa.
28:01	K: Sasha? S: Tessa.	K: Sasha ư? Q: Tessa. K: À, Tessa! (Cười)
28:12	K: Ah, Tessa! You are not following step by step into this. What is my country? Why have the world, the earth has been divided into my country, your country – why?	Bạn không theo dõi từng bước. Đất nước là gì? Tại sao thế giới trái đất chia thành đất nước tôi, đất nước bạn - tại sao?
28:39	S: It’s always that – my book, not your book.	Q: Nó luôn thế - sách của tôi, không phải của ngài.
28:45	K: No. So go on, question all this, sir, don’t... Why? Why have human beings for thousands of years have said, ‘This is my country, and that’s your country’.	K: Không. Hãy tiếp tục, hỏi mọi điều, đừng Tại sao? Tại sao con người bao ngàn năm qua nói đây là đất nước tôi, và kia là đất nước bạn?
29:00	S: Well, you have... K: Why? Why?	Q: Nào, ngài K: Tại sao?
29:03	S: OK. Well, you have dark skin, I have light skin, you speak that language and I speak this language, and there’s a group of people around me who speak the same language and a group of people around you speak your language and look the same as you. That’s your country and I am in my country.	Tại sao? Q: Vâng. Nào, ngài da xậm, tôi da sáng ngài nói ngôn ngữ này, và tôi nói ngôn ngữ khác và có những người xung quanh nói giống tôi và những người xung quanh ngài nói giống ngài và trông giống như ngài. Đó là đất nước của ngài và tôi ở đất nước tôi.
29:20	K: Why have we done this? S: Well, because you look different.	K: Tại sao chúng ta làm thế? Q: Nào, vì ngài trông khác.
29:24	K: All right. S: And language.	Và ngôn ngữ. K: Tốt thôi.
29:26	K: No. Are we different?	Không. Chúng ta khác nhau sao?
29:28	S: No, it’s just they scare you. K: Answer him. I am black. S: On the surface, yes.	Q: Không, họ chỉ dọa ngài K: Hãy trả lời anh ta. Tôi đen Q: Trên bề mặt, vâng.
29:35	K: You are pink or blue. I’m sorry. I am black and you are pink, or white, or whatever it is. Now, for that reason we fight each other?	K: bạn tím hay xanh. (Cười) Xin lỗi. Tôi đen và bạn tím hay trắng, hay gì khác. Vậy, vì lý do ấy ta đánh nhau?
29:56	S: Yes, and you believe in that. K: No, no, just begin slowly, sir. Do you kill me and I kill you because I am black and you are fairly near approaching white – why?	Q: Vâng, và ngài tin K: Không, không, chỉ bắt đầu chậm thôi. Có phải bạn giết tôi và tôi giết bạn vì tôi đen và bạn gần như trắng - tại sao?
30:11	S: Because... K: No, question, sir. Don’t answer, question first.	Q: Bởi vì K: Không, hãy hỏi. Đừng trả lời, hỏi trước.
30:20	S: I don’t think so because I think it’s my book and it’s a very precious book and my friend said, ‘It is my book’, and I kill him for my book.	Q: Tôi không nghĩ thế vì nghĩ rằng đây là sách của tôi và nó rất quí và có bạn nói, 'sách của tôi đó', và tôi giết hắn vì sách.
30:37	K: Yes. So...	K: Vâng.
30:38	S: And I think it’s not because he is black and I am white.	Vậy Q: Và tôi nghĩ vì hắn đen và tôi trắng.
30:43	K: Quite right. So, what do you say? Go on. Why do we do that? S: Because...	K: Đúng thôi. Vậy bạn nói sao? Tiếp đi. Tại sao chúng ta làm thế? Q: Bởi vì
30:52	K: Question it, I am questioning you; you are not questioning it yourself.	K: Hãy hỏi, tôi hỏi bạn; bạn không hỏi mình
31:06	S: Is it not a natural response to want to possess something?	Q: Không phải đáp ứng tự nhiên là muốn sở hữu điều gì sao?
31:10	K: Yes, that’s a natural response. Where does it begin, when does it begin? Careful, question, question, don’t accept anything natural and say, ‘It is natural’, and stick. Question why it is natural.	K: Vâng, đó là đáp ứng tự nhiên. Bắt đầu ở đâu, khi nào? Cẩn thận, hỏi, hỏi đừng chấp nhận tự nhiên và nói, 'Tự nhiên đó', và dính lại. Hãy hỏi tại sao là tự nhiên. Q: Tôi không nghĩ đứa bé
31:26	S: I don’t think a baby...	K: Đúng đó, bắt đầu với đứa bé. (Cười)
31:28	K: That’s it, begin with the baby. That’s quite right, begin with the small baby. You give him a toy, and he holds it. Right? And the other baby says and he pulls it away. Right? Haven’t you seen this? So, there it begins. Mine and yours, and we build this up.	Đúng vậy, hãy bắt đầu với đứa bé. Bạn cho đồ chơi và bé nắm lấy. Phải không? Và bé khác nói rồi giật đi. Phải không? Bạn có thấy thế? Vậy là bắt đầu ở đó. Của tôi và của bạn, và chúng ta dựng lên cái đó.
31:58	S: It makes you feel safe, you feel threatened when other people want it, so you’re going to... K: That’s right. So I am saying we build this up gradually as we grow older – this is mine and that is yours. And I am going to hold to mine, and you hold to yours. So what does it all mean? Question this. I say, ‘It is my country’, and you say it’s your country. Question why people say that.	Q: Nó làm bạn cảm giác an toàn bạn cảm thấy bị đe dọa khi người khác muốn nó nên bạn sẽ K: Đúng thế. Nên tôi nói chúng ta xây đắp cái đó dần khi lớn lên đây là của tôi và kia là của bạn. Và tôi giữ cái của tôi và bạn giữ cái của bạn. Vậy mọi cái đó nghĩa là sao? Hãy hỏi xem. Tôi nói đây là đất nước tôi và bạn nói kia đất nước bạn. Hỏi xem tại sao mọi người nói thế.
32:43	S: Well, perhaps through repetition and through education, you see one has..	Q: Có lẽ qua lặp đi lặp lại và qua giáo dục, ngài thấy
32:47	K: Of course, through education, through history, through propaganda, through everything you come to the point when you are so conditioned, you say, ‘It’s my country and your country’.	K: Dĩ nhiên, qua giáo dục, qua lịch sử, qua tuyên truyền qua mọi cái, bạn đi đến điểm phải đến bạn nói, 'Đất nước tôi và đất nước bạn'.
32:59	S: Because perhaps...	Q: Có lẽ vì
33:03	K: Question. Question first.	K: Hãy hỏi. Hỏi trước.
33:07	S: Is it not a matter of security? K: Security. Now, you understand what Mr Smith said – it is a matter of security. I feel secure with my family – right? – my father, my brother, my sister, my aunts. I feel they will protect me, they are part of me – right? – the family. Then increase it, the community – right? Move it still further – the nation. Right? I identify myself first with the family, then with the community, with the society, then with the nation – ‘I am British’. Right? That means I feel secure. Right? We agree to that? You are quite sure? I feel secure when I say, ‘I am British’, and the Frenchman says, ‘I am French’. He is completely secure – the language, the custom, the tradition, the intellectual approach and so on and so on. French and English, and the German says the same thing. Right? That is they all want security, all of them. Right? Agree? You are questioning, they all want security.	Q: Có phải đó là vấn đề an toàn? K: An toàn. Giờ thì bạn hiểu điều ngài Smith nói: đó là vấn đề an toàn. Tôi cảm thấy an toàn với gia đình tôi - phải không? ba má, anh chị, cô dì, tôi cảm thấy họ sẽ bảo vệ tôi, họ là một phần của tôi - phải không? - gia đình. Rồi tăng lên: cộng đồng - đúng không? rồi xa hơn nữa: đất nước. Phải không? Trước hết tôi đồng hóa mình với gia đình rồi với cộng đồng, với xã hội rồi với đất nước - 'Tôi là người Anh'. Đúng không? Nghĩa là tôi cảm thấy an toàn. Phải không? Đúng không? Đồng ý chứ? Bạn chắc chứ? Cảm thấy an toàn khi tôi nói tôi là người Anh và người Pháp nói, ' tôi là người Pháp'. Anh ta an toàn trọn vẹn: ngôn ngữ, thói quen, truyền thống tiếp cận tri thức v.v.. Pháp, Anh, và Đức đều nói như nhau. Phải không? Nghĩa là tất cả họ đều muốn an toàn. Đúng không? Đồng ý chứ? Bạn hỏi: tất cả họ đều muốn an toàn.
34:56	S: And they are willing to kill for that.	Q: Và họ vui lòng giết chóc vì điều đó. K: Thế đó.
34:59	K: That’s it. So each person says, ‘This is my security and your security, so we are going to fight’. Which means what?	Vậy mỗi người bảo đây là an toàn của tôi và an toàn của bạn, thế là chúng ta đánh nhau. Thế nghĩa là sao?
35:12	S: But then your life is threatened, so...	Q: Nhưng khi cuộc sống bị đe dọa, vậy
35:14	K: Yes. So there is no security. Right? Look at it carefully first.	K: Vâng. Vậy là không an toàn. Phải không? Trước hết hãy nhìn nó cẩn thận.
35:22	S: Then your security has been completely psychological security.	Q: Rồi an toàn của bạn hoàn toàn là an toàn tâm lý.
35:26	K: That’s it. That’s it.	K: Đúng thế. Chính thế.
35:27	S: Nothing having to do with actually what’s happening.	Q: Hoàn toàn không liên quan đến thực tế xãy ra.
35:30	K: That’s right. So, now, haven’t you learnt something, haven’t you become intelligent? Right? You see something. That is, I seek security in the nation, you seek security in your nation, and we are going to fight each other to be secure. And the governments exploit us, people exploit us for that reason. So there is no security as long as there are nationalities.	K: Đúng vậy. Vậy, hiện giờ, không phải bạn đã học điều gì bạn không thông minh sao? Phải không? Bạn thấy điều gì. Nghĩa là, tôi tìm an toàn trong đất nước tôi, bạn cũng thế và chúng ta sẽ đánh nhau vì an toàn. Và chính phủ, mọi người lợi dụng chúng ta vì lý do ấy. Thế là không có an toàn gì hết bao lâu còn quốc gia.
36:16	S: What can we do about it? K: Darling, wait.	Q: Chúng ta có thể làm gì? K: Anh bạn, đợi đã.
36:25	S: But we insist that there is security in the nation.	Q: Nhưng chúng ta nhấn mạnh có an toàn trong quốc gia.
36:28	K: No, first see, by questioning we have come to this point that when we try to seek security in the family, in the community and so on, in the nation, and you also seek in your own way, nation, and they quarrel when they fight each other, kill each other, security is denied to both of us. Right? So in nationalities there is no security.	K: Không, trước hết hãy hỏi xem chúng ta có đến điểm này rằng khi chúng ta cố tìm an toàn trong gia đình trong cộng đồng v.v.., trong quốc gia và bạn cũng tìm trong cách riêng của bạn, quốc gia và họ gây gỗ, khi đánh nhau, giết nhau chúng ta chối bỏ an toàn. Phải không? Vậy là trong quốc gia không có an toàn.
37:03	S: But how do we actually see that? That there is no security in... K: It is obvious.	Q: Nhưng làm sao chúng ta thực sự thấy thế? Rằng không có an toàn trong K: Dĩ nhiên.
37:11	S: Nothing can be done if almost everybody thinks like that.	Q: Không có điều chi xảy ra nếu mọi người nghĩ thế.
37:16	K: The vast majority, 99.9 say, ‘Yes, we must kill each other to be secure’.	K: Cả số đông, 99,9 nói 'Vâng, chúng ta phải giết nhau vì an toàn'.
37:26	S: But that’s just..	Q: Nhưng đó chỉ là Q: Vâng.
37:28	S: OK. If it’s so... K: Not OK.	Nếu thế K: Không vâng. (Cười)
37:31	S: No. Could I just say something? You know, if it is so obvious, why don’t we actually change? I’ve talked to students and staff after these talks and they are just as confused as ever. If it really is obvious that there is no security in my belief, my country and so on.	Q: Không. Tôi có thể nói gì chứ? Nếu dĩ nhiên thế, tại sao chúng ta không thực sự thay đổi? Tôi nói với học sinh và nhân viên sau các buổi nói chuyện và họ vẫn bối rối như xưa. Nếu đương nhiên thực sự không có an toàn trong niềm tin trong đất nước v.v..
37:51	K: Wait a minute, my country. It’s an illusion, isn’t it?	K: Đợi đã, đất nước tôi. Là ảo tưởng, phải không?
37:58	S: You mean it’s not real. K: No. It doesn’t exist. I want security and you want security, and we say, ‘Security lies in my nation’, and you say security lies in your nation, and we are killing each other. Right? The United Nations is like that. Right? So, there is no security in nationalities. Right?	Q: Ngài bảo nó không thực. K: Không. Nó không hiện hữu. Tôi muốn an toàn và bạn muốn an toàn và chúng ta nói an toàn nằm trong đất nước tôi và bạn nói an toàn nằm trong đất nước bạn và chúng ta giết nhau. Phải không? Liên hiệp quốc cũng thế. Phải không? Vậy không có an toàn trong quốc gia. Đúng không?
38:42	S: But we see that, but that doesn’t change, it is the same after the talk, the same, it’s my country. I saw it is not a security but it is always here.	Q: Nhưng chúng ta thấy thế, mà có thay đổi gì đâu vẫn thế sau khi nói chuyện, vẫn là đất nước tôi. Tôi thấy không có an toàn nhưng nó vẫn đó.
38:55	K: What?	K: Gì?
38:59	S: He says it doesn’t change after you know it’s your security...	Q: Anh ta nói chẳng có thay đổi gì sau khi ngài biết
39:02	K: You change. Don’t bother about the rest. You become intelligent. We are talking about intelligence. When you see for yourself there is no security in nationalities that very perception is intelligence. Right?	K: Bạn thay đổi. Đừng bận tâm chuyện còn lại. Bạn thông minh. Chúng ta nói về thông minh. Khi bạn thấy không có an toàn trong quốc gia chính nhận thức đó là thông minh.
39:24	S: But he is saying that he has only partially seen it, so when he goes out he is still going on with it.	Phải không? Q: Nhưng anh ta nói anh ta chỉ thấy điều đó một phần nên khi ra khỏi đây anh ta vẫn tiếp tục như thế.
39:29	K: Then you haven’t seen it. Be as simple as that. If you don’t see it, don’t say it’s partial. It’s like examining, a lot of blind people looking at an elephant.	K: Thế là bạn chưa thấy. Hãy đơn giản thôi. Nếu không thấy, đừng nói nó chỉ một phần. Cũng giống như một nhóm người mù rờ voi.
39:51	S: Why do we all say we do see it?	Q: Tại sao nói chúng ta thấy? K: Đừng theo chủ nghĩa quốc gia.
39:53	K: Then don’t be a nationalist. That’s intelligence. Right?	Đó là thông minh. Phải không?
40:06	S: I don’t know what intelligence is.	Q: Tôi không biết thông minh là gì.
40:10	K: You explain it, somebody explain.	K: Bạn giải thích, ai đó giải thích.
40:11	S: Well, somebody tell me what intelligence is. Someone.	Q: Tốt, ai đó cho tôi biết thông minh là gì. Ai đó.
40:16	S: He has already told you last... S: No. I’ve already heard what he says, now I want to hear what someone in here says.	Q: Anh ta đã nói bạn nghe Q: Không. Tôi đã nghe lời anh ấy nói giờ tôi muốn nghe điều ai đó nói.
40:23	S: What, you mean the proper definition or...	Q: Gì, ý bạn là định nghĩa đúng hay
40:24	S: No, intelligence, what is it for you?	Q: Không, thông minh, với bạn là gì?
40:27	S: For me? You mean – well, I believe what he says.	Q: Với tôi? Ý bạn là - tốt, tôi tin lời anh ta. (Cười)
40:34	K: You don’t believe what I say.	Q: Không, ai đó sẽ dẫn giải
40:44	S: No, would someone care to explain?	Q: Tôi nói đó là hành động không mâu thuẫn
40:47	S: I would say it is an action that is not contradictory, somehow intelligence has to be whole, it cannot be fragmented. I mean, not that you say something and then you do something completely opposite.	dù gì thông minh phải trọn vẹn, không thể manh mún không phải bạn nói điều gì rồi làm theo trọn vẹn
41:01	S: But do you actually live that way?	Q: Nhưng bạn có thực sự sống thế không? Q: Không.
41:04	S: No.	Q: Vậy chỉ là một lô từ ngữ. Q: Vâng.
41:05	S: So it’s just a bunch of words. S: Yes.	Q: Nhưng cũng đừng làm quá phức tạp bởi vì
41:09	S: But again, don’t make it so complicated because Krishnaji is just taking one thing and he is talking about nationalism and he says if you drop nationalism, you are beginning to be intelligent, and that’s the beginning of intelligence.	Krishnaji chỉ nắm một điều và ông ta nói về đất nước và nói nếu lìa bỏ chủ nghĩa quốc gia bạn bắt đầu thông minh đó là khởi đầu thông minh.
41:27	S: Yes, but we always talk about this intelligence, we all want to live intelligently, but we never do. You know, we leave this room... K: It’s up to you.	Q: Vâng, nhưng chúng ta cũng nói về thông minh ấy tất cả đều muốn sống thông minh nhưng không bao giờ làm. Bạn biết đó, khi rời phòng này K: Tuỳ các bạn thôi. Q: Chúng ta làm. Q: Ta làm thực sao? Còn bạn?
41:35	S: We do that. S: We do? Do we? Really?	Q: Bạn làm à? Q: Không, tôi không.
41:37	S: Do you? S: I don’t do.	Q: Từ giờ hãy làm đi.
41:39	S: From now on do that.	Q: Rõ là mọi người ở đây biết đôi điều đang xảy ra
41:44	S: It’s clear that everyone here knows a bit of what is going on and is a bit intelligent, I think, and still you see the mess here in the school. I mean it’s nice to be here, but still exactly the same problems are here as everywhere else in the world.	và đó là một tí thông minh, tôi nghĩ và bạn vẫn còn thấy lộn xộn trong trường đây. Ý tôi ở đây tốt, nhưng vẫn đúng ra vấn đề ở đây cũng như nơi khác trên thế giới.
42:02	S: You can understand it but it’s hard to actually do it.	Q: Bạn có thể hiểu nhưng khó thực hiện lắm.
42:06	K: You understand, I have lived in India and I believe, I am convinced my security is in India, and you are convinced in Pakistan next door, that your security lies in Pakistan, and we fight each other for our security. Right? Kill each other. You have no security when you kill me, and I have no security when I kill you. It is so obvious. Right? What are we... This is intelligence.	K: Bạn biết, tôi sống ở Ấn độ và tôi tin, tôi chắc rằng an toàn tôi ở Ấn độ và bạn chắc rằng ở Pakistan kế bên an toàn của bạn ở Pakistan và chúng ta đánh nhau vì an toàn của chúng ta. Phải không? Giết nhau. Không có an toàn khi bạn giết tôi và không có an toàn khi tôi giết bạn. Dĩ nhiên thôi. Phải không? Chúng ta là gì Đó là thông minh.
42:51	S: But still, you know, there is this block. I don’t actually see it. S: Ken, are you nationalistic? Or are you talking about the subtler issues that we...	Q: Nhưng vẫn thế, bạn biết đó, bế tắc. Tôi không thấy thực. Q: Ken, bạn theo chủ nghĩa quốc gia? Hay bạn nói về vấn đề tế nhị hơn
43:00	S: Perhaps, I don’t know. I can see it on the surface, yes, to believe in nationalism there is no security in it, but...	Q: Có lẽ, tôi không rõ. Tôi có thể nhìn bề mặt, vâng, tin vào chủ nghĩa quốc gia không có an toàn, nhưng K: Tốt, hãy rời chủ nghĩa quốc gia.
43:08	K: All right, let’s leave nationalism.	Q: Nhưng vẫn còn điều gì
43:11	S: But there is still something...	tôi cảm thấy, tôi phải cảm thấy điều gì để hiểu thực.
43:14	S: I feel I must feel something to actually see this. You know what I mean?	Ngài hiểu ý tôi? K: Ồ vâng, tôi hiểu ý bạn.
43:18	K: Oh yes, I understand what you mean. People feel very patriotic, don’t they? When this country is attacked, or went to war in the Falklands people were tremendously excited, very patriotic. And for that reason go and kill somebody.	Mọi người cảm thấy rất yêu nước, phải không? Khi đất nước bị tấn công, hay có chiến tranh với Falkland mọi người vô cùng kích động, yêu nước. Và vì lý do đó đi giết người.
43:43	S: We are so small-minded.	Q: Chúng ta quá nhỏ nhen.
43:47	K: What? S: Nothing.	K: Gì? Q: Không có gì.
43:55	K: Let’s take another thing, perhaps that will explain it.	K: Sang việc khác đi, có khi lại giải thích đó.
44:01	S: But if he can’t see that one, is he going to see? If he can’t see that as intelligence, what can he see?	Q: Nhưng nếu anh ta không thấy điều đó, liệu sẽ thấy không? Nếu không thấy như thông minh, anh ta có thể thấy gì? (Cười)
44:19	K: She is insulting you!	K: Cô ta xúc phạm bạn! (Cười) Q: Ý tôi không thế.
44:23	S: I don’t mean to.	K: Cô ta nói, nếu không thể thấy điều đó bạn có thể thấy gì!
44:28	K: She says, if you can’t see that, what the hell can you see! So let’s take something else. We are questioning authority. In Christianity – – I am not condemning Christianity, I am just examining it – in Christianity belief and faith are essential. Right? Why have they made belief and faith so important?	Sang việc khác đi. Chúng ta đang nói về uy quyền. Trong Cơ đốc giáo - tôi không lên án Cơ đốc giáo, chỉ xem xét - trong Cơ đốc giáo niềm tin và tín ngưỡng là cơ bản. Phải không? Tại sao niềm tin và tín ngưỡng quá quan trọng?
45:06	S: Well, if I live according to the Christian belief, I’ll live eternally after I die.	Q: Nào, nếu tôi sống theo niềm tin Cơ đốc tôi sẽ sống mãi sau khi chết.
45:12	K: Yes, what does that mean – question it. What does that mean?	K: Vâng, thế nghĩa là sao - hỏi xem. Thế nghĩa là sao?
45:16	S: It is another kind of security. K: Yes. You see? Right? If I believe in Jesus, if I believe in the Virgin Mary, if I believe, have complete faith, I feel safe. Right? And the Indian, 5000 years, says, ‘I believe not in Jesus, but I believe in my own god’. He feels perfectly safe. You come along and say, ‘What nonsense this is. It is just a belief’. You can invent any belief and find security in that. Right? So is there security in belief?	Q: Một loại an toàn khác. K: Vâng. Bạn thấy? Phải không? Nếu tôi tin Jesus, nếu tôi tin Đức Bà Mary nếu tôi tin, hoàn toàn tin, tôi cảm thấy an toàn. Đúng không? Và người Ấn, 5000 năm nay, nói, tôi không tin Jesus nhưng tin thần thánh của tôi. Họ thấy hoàn toàn an ổn. Bạn đến và nói điều vô nghĩa này. Đó chỉ là niềm tin. Bạn có thể tạo ra niềm tin và tìm an ổn trong đó. Phải không? Vậy có an toàn trong niềm tin không? Q: Không.
46:04	S: No.	K: Đúng chứ? Tại sao bạn nói không?
46:05	K: Right? Why do you say, ‘No’?	Q: Nào, vì nếu ngài
46:08	S: Well, because if you...	K: Tại sao bạn nói không? Hỏi xem tại sao bạn nói không.
46:11	K: Why do you say, ‘No’? Question why do you say, ‘No’.	Q: Vì nếu ngài tin này, và tôi tin nọ, chúng ta gặp
46:14	S: Because if you believe that, and I believe this, we meet, there is no security because we will blow each other into smithereens.	không có an toàn bởi vì chúng ta sẽ đánh nhau
46:20	K: It is the same thing with nationalities. Right? That’s all. So, understand now, a vast majority of the Western world accept this belief and faith in all their church and all that, they believe that very strongly. Which means what? They create an illusion, an image, and believe in that. Which means they are living in illusion. And illusion gives them safety. They feel safe in illusions. Right? Now have I got illusions? Have you got illusions?	K: Cũng giống như với quốc gia. Phải không? Vậy đó. Vậy, hiểu là đa số người phương Tây chấp nhận niềm tin và tín ngưỡng trong tất cả giáo đường, họ tin rất mãnh liệt. Thế là sao? Họ tạo ra ảo tưởng hình ảnh, và tin vào đó. Nghĩa là họ sống trong ảo tưởng. Và ảo tưởng cho họ an toàn. Họ thấy an toàn trong ảo tưởng. Phải không? Tôi có ảo tưởng không? Bạn có ảo tưởng không?
47:17	S: OK, perhaps I’ve seen... K: Wait, question it.	Q: Vâng, có lẽ tôi thấy K: Khoan, hỏi xem.
47:24	S: No, I’ve read that most of our thoughts are controlled by the subconscious, that which we are unaware of.	Q: Không, tôi đã đọc là hầu hết tư duy bị kiểm soát bởi tiềm thức, phần chúng ta không ý thức.
47:32	K: We will come to that, old boy, presently. I am asking you, do you – I have asked that question, answer it. Do you have beliefs so strongly which give you comfort, feel, my god, at last I have found something that gives me satisfaction. That means, are you living in illusions? Right? Have you got illusions?	K: Chúng ta sẽ nói tới ngay thôi, anh bạn. Tôi hỏi bạn, bạn có tôi đã hỏi câu này, trả lời đi tin tưởng mạnh mẽ có cho bạn dễ chịu, cảm thấy lạy trời, ít nhất tôi tìm điều gì cho tôi thỏa mãn Nghĩa là, bạn có sống trong ảo tưởng? Phải không? Bạn có ảo tưởng không?
48:03	S: Yes.	Q: Vâng. K: Hỏi xem tại sao.
48:06	K: Question why.	Q: Nếu ngài cho tôi là học sinh giỏi, và ngài nghĩ tôi giỏi
48:08	S: If you think I am a good student, and you think I am a good student, but then you see another person who is a better student or who perhaps is a bit quicker than you, and you get jealous.	nhưng khi ngài thấy người khác giỏi hơn hay có lẽ nhanh nhẹn hơn ngài một tí, và ngài ganh tị.
48:19	K: Yes, go on.	K: Vâng, tiếp tục. Q: Và ngài rất dứt khoát
48:24	S: And so you definitely, if you try to get away from the jealousy by suppressing it, it doesn’t work.	nếu ngài cố thoát ganh tị ấy bằng cách xóa nó thì chẳng ăn thua.
48:36	K: No. I am asking you, old boy – if I may call you old boy – I am asking you, have you got any illusions?	K: Không. Tôi hỏi anh, anh bạn - tôi có thể gọi anh bạn tôi hỏi bạn, bạn có ảo tưởng không?
48:45	S: Yes.	Q: Vâng.
48:48	K: Right? Question why you have.	K: Đúng chứ? Hỏi xem tại sao bạn có.
48:54	S: Because... K: Question. Question. First realise, first become aware that you have illusions. Right? I have illusions of my country, I have illusions that I’m a Christian, I worship and all the rest of it. That’s an illusion. And have you any other kind of illusions?	Q: Bởi vì K: Hỏi. Hỏi. Trước hết hãy hiểu, nhận ra bạn có ảo tưởng. Phải không? Tôi có ảo tưởng về đất nước tôi ảo tưởng tôi là giáo dân Cơ đốc, tôi phụng thờ v.v.. Đó là ảo tưởng. Và bạn có loại ảo tưởng nào khác? Q: Tất cả chúng ta có ý niệm hay ảo tưởng chúng ta là ai.
49:22	S: We all have ideas or illusions of what or who we are.	K: Tiếp tục. Vậy ý niệm là ảo tưởng?
49:25	K: Go on. So are ideas illusions? Go on, sir, question. Are ideals illusions?	Hãy tiếp tục hỏi. Lý tưởng là ảo tưởng?
49:38	S: Yes, because they never deal with what is happening right now. K: That’s right.	Q: Vâng. Q: Vâng, bởi vì chúng không hề liên quan điều đang xảy ra. K: Đúng thế.
49:43	S: It’s always something you want to be, as compared to something.	Q: Nó luôn là điều gì ngài muốn là, như so sánh với gì đó.
49:46	K: So, ideals, ideas – right? – and your beliefs are illusions. Why do you have them?	K: Thế là lý tưởng, ý niệm - phải không? và niềm tin của bạn là ảo tưởng. Tại sao bạn có nó?
50:01	S: Because you are insecure. K: Yes. So, you have found security in illusions.	Q: Bởi vì không an toàn. K: Vâng. Nên bạn tìm an toàn trong ảo tưởng.
50:10	S: Everyone thinks.	Q: Ai cũng nghĩ thế.
50:12	K: That’s what I am saying, everybody thinks, but I am asking you.	K: Đó là lời tôi nói, ai cũng nghĩ, nhưng tôi hỏi bạn.
50:17	S: I have something to it, sometimes I think.	Q: Tôi nghĩ và đôi lúc cũng nghĩ. K: Không, ngay bây giờ.
50:20	K: Not sometimes, now. I am asking you now – have you got illusions of such kind in which you are living, with which you are living? Now, please understand why we are questioning. We are questioning all these things by understanding them, realizing their nature and becoming intelligent. If a man lives in kind of false illusions, he is not intelligent. Right? So we are trying to find out what is supreme intelligence. Supreme intelligence is to have no illusions. That’s only the beginning of it. Right? Have you got illusions?	Tôi đang hỏi bạn, bạn có ảo tưởng loại nào bạn sống trong đósống với nó? Hãy hiểu tại sao chúng ta hỏi. Chúng ta hỏi mọi điều, bởi thấu hiểu chúng nhận ra bản chất chúng là thông minh. Nếu sống trong ảo tưởng sai lầm nào tức không thông minh. Phải không? Vậy chúng ta cố tìm ra thông minh tối cao là gì. Thông minh tối cao là không có ảo tưởng. Đó chỉ là khởi đầu. Đúng không? Bạn có ảo tưởng không?
51:22	S: Well, I have made an illusion of perhaps intelligence, you know. I think that if I find out what intelligence is, I will be completely by myself. K: Oh, no. I might join you.	Q: Ồ, có lẽ tôi tạo ra ảo tưởng về thông minh, ngài biết đó. Tôi nghĩ nếu tôi tìm ra thông minh là gì tôi sẽ hoàn toàn là chính tôi. K: Ồ không. Có lẽ tôi sẽ gặp bạn. (Cười)
51:38	S: You know, and that scares the hell out of me.	Q: Ngài biết đó, điều này làm tôi sợ hết hồn.
51:41	K: I might join you. All of us might join you and say, ‘By Jove, what an intelligent man, let’s find out how he got this intelligence’. So do you, all of us in this room, do you have illusions?	K: Có lẽ tôi sẽ gặp bạn. Chúng tôi sẽ gặp bạn, và, 'Lạy trời anh bạn thông minh hãy tìm xem làm sao anh ta thông minh'. Vậy, cả phòng đây, các bạn có ảo tưởng không?
51:59	S: Aren’t your words illusions for us?	Q: Lời ngài không là ảo tưởng với chúng tôi sao?
52:14	S: That depends on you.	Q: Tuỳ bạn thôi.
52:16	S: Isn’t what you say illusion for us?	Q: Lời ngài không là ảo tưởng sao? K: Nếu bạn chấp nhận. (Cười)
52:20	K: If you accept it. But if you begin to question your illusions, not my illusions.	Nhưng nếu bạn bắt đầu hỏi ảo tưởng mình không phải ảo tưởng tôi.
52:37	S: You don’t talk about stopping your illusions or suppressing them, just questioning them. K: Yes. If you suppress them, they will pop up again. Like Kleenex!	Q: Ngài không nói về dừng ảo tưởng hay loại trừ chúng chỉ hỏi thôi. K: Vâng. Nếu loại trừ chúng lại bùng lên. (Cười) Như khăn giấy! Q: ThưaVâng, tiếp tục.
53:03	S: If... No.	Q: Nếu Không. (Cười) K: Quý bà trước.
53:06	K: Ladies first.	Q: Cũng không thực là nhiều ảo tưởng
53:10	S: Isn’t it true also that many of our illusions breed from our conditioning? K: Yes.	sinh từ qui định sao? K: Vâng.
53:16	S: And what I wonder is that – OK, this is just for myself only – that I’ve grown up with an exposure to what you have been saying since I’ve been a baby.	Q: Và điều tôi tự hỏi là - Vâng, chỉ cho chính tôi rằng tôi lớn lên theo hướng ngài đã nói tôi từng là đứa bé. K: Nào, đợi đã, bạn nói
53:28	K: So, wait a minute, as you said, do not all these illusions indicate our conditioning?	không phải mọi ảo tưởng chỉ ra qui định sao.
53:39	S: Yes.	Q: Vâng.
53:40	K: Now, question your conditioning now.	K: Bây giờ hỏi qui định bạn xem.
53:43	S: Well, I think... K: First look at it carefully. What’s your conditioning?	Q: Ồ tôi nghĩ K: Trước hết nhìn nó cẩn thận. Qui định bạn là gì?
53:48	S: I haven’t had that religious or political conditioning.	Q: Tôi không có qui định tôn giáo hay chính trị.
53:52	K: No, you may not have religious or political conditioning, but you are conditioned. Right? Question that. What do you mean by conditioning? Are you conditioned?	K: Không, có thể bạn không có qui định tôn giáo hay chính trị nhưng bạn bị qui định. Phải không? Hỏi xem. Ý bạn qui định là gì? Bạn có bị qui định?
54:07	S: Conditioned by my own experience even. Maybe not even anything K: That’s right. Then you begin to question your experience.	Q: Qui định ngay cả với kinh nghiệm riêng. Có thể không có gì K: Đúng thế. Vậy bạn bắt đầu hỏi kinh nghiệm mình.
54:14	S: I am trying. It’s so difficult to separate it. K: No. By questioning, not saying, ‘I am right, I am wrong’ – right? – by enquiring, exploring your mind which has become dull through conditioning begins to quicken, not quicken, it becomes more alive. Now, will you all do this? You are here at Brockwood not only to be academically excellent but also psychologically supremely intelligent. Right?	Q: Tôi đang cố. (Cười) Thật khó mà tách nó ra. K: Không. Chỉ hỏi, không nói tôi đúng hay sai - phải không? tìm tòi, thám hiểm trí óc bạn mờ tối vì qui định bắt đầu nhanh lên - không phải nhanh, mà sống động hơn. Giờ bạn sẽ làm chứ? Bạn ở Brockwood này không phải chỉ để lý thuyết giỏi mà là thông minh tâm thức tối cao.
55:16	S: That’s an illusion.	Phải không? Q: Đó là ảo tưởng. (Cười) K: Gì nào?
55:20	K: What’s that?	Q: Đó là ảo tưởng, bởi nó có thể tổn thương
55:22	S: It’s an illusion, because it can hurt...	K: Không, không, không. Chỉ nghe thôi.
55:27	K: No, no, no. Just listen. Is it an illusion that you have to be academically good?	Là ảo tưởng khi bạn phải giỏi lý thuyết sao?
55:42	S: If you work hard enough, you can be academically good.	Q: Nếu bạn khổ nhọc để có thể giỏi lý thuyết.
55:47	K: You can be excellent academically, can’t you? By studying.	K: Bạn có thể rất giỏi lý thuyết, phải không? Do nghiên cứu.
55:53	S: Yes, but... K: Wait, wait. Right? Studying, applying, paying attention to your beastly little books.	Q: Vâng, nhưng K: Khoan, khoan. Phải không? Nghiên cứu, áp dụng, chú ý mấy cuốn sách xấu xí.
56:02	S: Yes, but some of it’s interesting so what’s bad about that? Some of it’s interesting. Some of the work that you do is interesting. K: Yes, you have to be because it means, if you are excellent academically, you may get a good job. Money. You have to earn. Now, psychologically, can’t you be supremely excellent? Which means you live intelligently therefore there is never conflict, and so on. I won’t go into all that.	Q: Vâng, nhưng vài cuốn rất hay vậy xấu điều gì? Vài cuốn rất hay. Vài cuốn ngài viết rất tuyệt. K: Vâng, bạn phải là vì nếu bạn giỏi lý thuyết bạn có thể có việc làm tốt. Tiền. Bạn phải kiếm tiền. Giờ về tâm lý, bạn không thể thật giỏi sao? Nghĩa là bạn sống thông minh thế là không hề có xung đột v.v.. Tôi sẽ không tìm hiểu việc ấy.
56:38	S: So we have to think about everything we do, I mean all our reactions.	Q: Vậy ta phải suy tư mọi điều ta làm, ý tôi là mọi phản ứng.
56:43	K: Yes. You have to watch what you think, why you think, why you have such emotions, why you separate yourself from... and so on. You become aware, you become sensitive, alive.	K: Vâng. Bạn phải xem điều bạn nghĩ, tại sao nghĩ tại sao bạn xúc động thế, tại sao bạn tách mình ra Bạn ý thức, nhạy bén, sống động.
56:58	S: We try.	Q: Chúng ta thử xem.
57:00	S: Yes, I think most people in this room have actually tried it, but after a period of time we forget about it.	Q: Vâng, tôi nghĩ đa số trong phòng này thực sự đã thử nhưng sau một thời gian chúng ta lại quên.
57:08	K: Can you forget hunger? S: No. But we become aware of...	K: Bạn có thể quên đói sao? Q: Không. Nhưng chúng ta ý thức K: Không, đừng bỏ qua.
57:14	K: No, don’t go off. Can you forget danger?	Bạn có thể quên nguy hiểm sao?
57:19	S: No. But that’s all the result of the intelligence of the body. K: Look at it, old boy, just wait a minute. Can you forget danger?	Q: Không. Nhưng đó là kết quả của thân thể thông minh. K: Nhìn đi anh bạn, đợi đó. Bạn có thể quên nguy hiểm sao? Q: Không.
57:29	S: No.	K: Tại sao? Tại sao bạn không quên?
57:30	K: Sir, why? Why don’t you forget it? Question it. I am questioning you, and you’re answering.	Hỏi xem. Tôi hỏi và bạn trả lời.
57:38	S: I don’t want to die. If you are pointing a gun at me...	Q: Tôi không muốn chết. Nếu ngài dí súng vào tôi
57:42	K: Please, you know what danger is. S: Yes.	K: Nào, bạn biết nguy hiểm là gì. Q: Vâng.
57:45	K: Do you forget it? S: No.	K: Bạn quên nó chứ? Q: Không.
57:49	K: Why not? S: I think you do.	K: Tại sao không? Q: Tôi nghĩ ngài quên.
57:52	S: OK, physical danger I don’t forget.	Q: Vâng, nguy hiểm vật lý tôi không quên. K: Bạn không quên.
57:56	K: You won’t. Is not nationalism danger?	Chủ nghĩa quốc gia không nguy hiểm sao?
58:02	S: Yes.	Q: Vâng.
58:06	K: So, you say, ‘I am not a nationalist, I don’t belong to any country’. That’s a danger. Right? Why do you forget it? You can’t.	K: Vậy bạn nói, 'tôi không theo chủ nghĩa quốc gia tôi không thuộc đất nước nào'. Nguy hiểm đó. Tại sao bạn quên nó? Bạn không thể.
58:31	S: But I do. I do.	Q: Nhưng tôi làm. Tôi làm.
58:35	K: You do?	K: Bạn làm sao?
58:37	S: Oh, for god’s sake! This is all very difficult.	Q: Ồ, nhờ trời Việc này khó quá.
58:40	K: No, no. You see, you are not questioning, you are saying something without... I am asking you to question everything you do, think, ask.	K: Không, không. Bạn biết bạn không hỏi, bạn nói điều không tôi muốn bạn hỏi mọi điều bạn làm, suy nghĩ, yêu cầu.
58:59	S: Well, perhaps that is not possible with the modern condition.	Q: Vâng có lẽ không thể với điều kiện hiện đại.
59:03	K: That’s an excuse. You can question.	K: Đó là bào chữa. Bạn có thể hỏi.
59:10	S: Sir, it seems the past year I have been really questioning everything I think. And sometimes I feel I am just going in circles.	Q: Thưa ngài, có lẽ năm qua tôi thực sự hỏi mọi điều tôi nghĩ. Và đôi khi tôi cảm thấy tôi đi lòng vòng
59:19	K: Of course. But you are not questioning thinking.	chỉ đi trong K: Dĩ nhiên. Nhưng bạn không hỏi tư duy.
59:25	S: Well, I am questioning that right now. I am questioning that, it seems within our intellect we try to become more aware of our thoughts, and it’s like our thoughts are aware of our thoughts.	Q: À, tôi hỏi ngay. (Cười) Tôi tự hỏi hình như trong trí óc chúng ta cố gắng ý thức hơn suy nghĩ mình và giống như suy nghĩ ý thức suy nghĩ
59:34	K: Yes, quite right. But, you don’t... Look, I begin to question nationalism. Right? Then I come to the point I question my thinking – thinking itself.	và giống như K: Vâng, đúng thế. Nhưng, bạn khôngNhìn xem, tôi bắt đầu hỏi chủ nghĩa quốc gia. Phải không? Rồi đến điểm tôi hỏi tư duy tôi - chính tư duy.
59:50	S: So, it’s like the intellect is only an instrument, and it’s like it becomes sharper and sharper, to a certain point, it just becomes – there’s nothing more you can do with it.	Q: Vậy giống như trí óc chỉ là công cụ và nó giống như càng bén hơn, đến một điểm nó chỉ là - không gì bạn có thể làm hơn nữa.
1:00:01	K: It becomes sharper and sharper therefore at the end of it, it becomes dull. Have you understood what I said? The more you sharpen an instrument, it gradually wears off and becomes dull. Right? A chisel, keep on polishing, polishing and using it, it becomes dull. So question why your mind is becoming dull by merely going round and round.	K: Nó ngày càng bén thế mà cuối cùng nó lại cùn nhụt. Q: Nó K: Bạn hiểu tôi nói gì chứ? Bạn càng mài bén dụng cụ nó dần hư đi và thành cùn nhụt. Phải không? Cái đục, cứ mài, mài rồi dùng, nó cùn đi. Vậy hỏi tại sao tâm trí ta thành cùn nhụt vì chỉ đi lòng vòng
1:00:39	S: Because it is all thought, it’s just...	Q: Bởi đều là tư duy, nó chỉ
1:00:41	K: No, you are not questioning it. I get depressed – suppose I do, I don’t, I have no depression, I never have been depressed – suppose I am depressed. I say, ‘Yes, I am very depressed’. I accept it. I don’t say, ‘Now, why am I depressed?’ Is it I am thinking about myself? Is it I can’t get what I want? Is it somebody is better than me? Somebody is more beautiful than me? Somebody is more rich, and so on, so on, is that the reason why I am depressed? Right? If I am, then I say, ‘Why am I doing this?’ You follow? Move. Right, sir? Are you doing it?	K: Không, bạn không hỏi. Tôi phát chán - giả sử tôi làm, không làm, tôi không chán tôi không bao giờ chán - giả sử tôi chán nản Tôi nói, 'Vâng, tôi chán quá'. Tôi chấp nhận nó. Tôi không nói, 'Giờ thì, tại sao tôi chán?' Có phải tôi đang nghĩ về mình? Có phải tôi không thể đạt cái tôi muốn? Có phải ai đó tốt hơn tôi? Ai đó đẹp hơn tôi? Ai đó giàu hơn, và v.v.. phải đó là lý do tôi chán? Đúng không? Nếu thế, tôi liền nói, 'Tại sao tôi làm điều này?' Bạn theo kịp chứ? Chuyển động đi. Phải không? Bạn đang làm ư?
1:02:06	S: Sir, I think there must be a result or a decision from this very questioning. So shall we go on questioning this result?	Q: Thưa ngài, tôi nghĩ phải có kết quả hay điều xác định từ chính hỏi han đó. Vậy chúng ta sẽ tiếp tục hỏi (không nghe rõ)
1:02:20	K: I don’t quite understand.	K: Tôi chẳng hiểu gì.
1:02:22	S: He says the questioning brings about a result. Should we question the result as well?	Q: Anh ta nói hỏi sinh ra kết quả. Chúng ta nên hỏi kết quả chứ?
1:02:32	K: Of course.	K: Dĩ nhiên.
1:02:35	S: But then when we react...	Q: Nhưng rồi khi chúng ta phản ứng
1:02:38	K: You stop questioning only when there’s nothing more to question. That’s not a clever statement, but see what happens. That when you begin to question seriously, step by step, then there is a point where there is only that state of mind that has no problems at all. I won’t go into all this. But you don’t start! You want to reach the end at the beginning.	K: Bạn chỉ ngừng hỏi khi không có gì để hỏi nữa. Đó không phải là khéo lời, nhưng hãy xem điều gì xảy ra. Khi bạn bắt đầu hỏi nghiêm chỉnh, từng bước rồi có một điểm nơi mà tâm trí hoàn toàn không có vấn đề. Tôi sẽ không tìm hiểu điều này. Nhưng bạn không bắt đầu! Bạn muốn chạm mục tiêu lúc khởi đầu.
1:03:21	S: Sir, do you say then that if you are depressed, question it or just be aware of it? If you are depressed, are you saying we should question it or just be aware of it?	Q: Thưa ngài, ngài nói rằng nếu bạn chán, hỏi xem hay chỉ ý thức nó? Nếu chán nản ngài nói chúng ta có nên hỏi
1:03:33	K: Yes, I am depressed, I’ll show it to you. I want to know why I am depressed. I don’t say, ‘Yes, I am depressed’. I say, ‘Why am I depressed? Is it I have eaten wrongly? I have not slept properly? Or I am depressed because I can’t get what I want or I can’t – I am not as good as you, or I am not as clever as you’. Right? Which means I am always comparing. Why do I compare? Is it possible not to compare? See, I am questioning all this. Can I live without comparison?	hay chỉ ý thức nó? K: Vâng, tôi chán nản, tôi sẽ chỉ bạn xem. Tôi muốn biết tại sao tôi chán. Tôi không nói, 'Vâng, tôi chán'. Tôi nói, 'Tại sao tôi chán?' Có phải tôi đã ăn sai? Tôi không ngủ đúng? Hay chán nản vì không được điều tôi muốn hay tôi không thể - Tôi không giỏi, không khéo như bạn. Phải không? Nghĩa là tôi luôn so sánh. Tại sao tôi so sánh? Có thể không so sánh chứ? Xem nào, tôi hỏi mọi điều. Tôi có thể sống không so sánh?
1:04:30	S: If we ask continually why, can’t that process just reinforce that whole ego thing that we are trying to question? K: Of course. That’s why I am saying it must be done with intelligence. So you begin with the most ordinary things.	Q: Nếu chúng ta liên tục hỏi tại sao tiến trình ấy không thể tăng cường cả cái ngã mà chúng ta cố hỏi sao? K: Dĩ nhiên. Đó là lý do tôi nói phải làm với thông minh. Thế là bạn bắt đầu với việc thông thường nhất.
1:04:52	S: And that intelligence we don’t have. We try to get intelligence and we have to use our intelligence to get the intelligence.	Q: Và thông minh ấy chúng ta không có. Chúng ta cố gắng đạt thông minh và chúng ta phải dùng thông minh đạt thông minh.
1:05:01	S: Yes, exactly. That’s the problem.	Q: Vâng, chính xác. (Cười) Đó là vấn đề
1:05:09	S: It’s like, what intelligence are you talking about? I mean, the description of intelligence we understand is that intelligence is not limited by thought or experience.	Q: Giống như, bạn nói về thông minh gì? Ý tôi là diễn tả thông minh chúng ta hiểu là thông minh không giới hạn bởi tư duy và kinh nghiệm.
1:05:19	K: Yes.	K: Vâng.
1:05:19	S: So how can I use the intelligence I have right now that is limited by thought and experience? I mean it seems so...	Q: Vậy làm sao có thể dùng thông minh đang bị giới hạn và kinh nghiệm?
1:05:25	K: No. Have you got intelligence now?	ý tôi là có vẻ K: Không.
1:05:28	S: I think I do sometimes, yes.	Giờ bạn có thông minh không? Q: Tôi nghĩ đôi lúc có, vâng.
1:05:31	K: Not sometimes. S: I can’t say that I do.	K: Không phải đôi lúc. Q: Không thể nói tôi có.
1:05:33	K: You see, you make... Now why don’t you question that? Have you got intelligence now? S: I don’t think I do, no.	K: Bạn biết, bạn làm Giờ tại sao bạn không hỏi? Bạn có thông minh không? Q: Tôi không nghĩ tôi có, không.
1:05:40	K: No. So begin.	Không. K: Không. Vậy bắt đầu.
1:05:42	S: Not the intelligence that I want to have.	Q: Không phải thông minh mà tôi muốn có.
1:05:43	K: So begin. Are you nationalistic, are you seeking safety in your little family, seeking security in your ideas? Sir, I am doing all the questioning, you’re not.	K: Vậy bắt đầu. Bạn có theo chủ nghĩa quốc gia, có tìm an toàn trong gia đình tìm an toàn trong ý niệm? Tôi hỏi mọi thứ, bạn thì không hỏi.
1:05:58	S: What if you seek security in some things but not in others?	Q: Là gì nếu tìm an toàn trong cái này mà không phải cái khác?
1:06:07	K: Yes. So what do you seek security in? In your looks? In your family? In some god? In some illusion? You see, I am doing... Sir, what I am pointing out very simply is, most of us are so conditioned – right? – that we become very dull. We repeat what somebody has said or we read a great deal and be very knowledgeable, but you may be stupid. So I say, find out for yourself what is intelligence. And you can find out that by asking, questioning, doubting. You can’t doubt everything, there is electricity, that light is there, you can’t doubt it. Right? The tree, you can’t doubt it, it is there. Right? The governments are there, the policeman is there. All the churches, all the things in the churches are there. So you begin to question.	K: Vâng. Vậy bạn tìm an toàn trong cái gì? Trong cái nhìn? Trong gia đình? Trong thần thánh? Trong ảo tưởng? Bạn xem, tôi đang làm (Cười) Tôi đang chỉ ra điều thật đơn giản là đa số chúng ta bị qui định - phải không? - Chúng ta quá u tối. Chúng ta lặp lại lời người khác hay đọc quá nhiều và quá kiến thức, nhưng bạn có thể Vậy tôi nói, hãy tìm xem thông minh là gì. Và bạn có thể tìm bằng hỏi han, nghi vấn. Bạn không thể nghi ngờ mọi việc: có điện, ánh sáng đó, bạn không thể nghi. Phải không? Cây cối, bạn không thể nghi, nó đó. Đúng không? Chính phủ đó, cảnh sát đó giáo đường, mọi vật trong đó. Vậy bạn bắt đầu hỏi.
1:07:40	S: Your anxiety is there.	Q: Lo âu đó. K: Vâng, hay các nhà khoa học.
1:07:45	K: Yes, or the scientists.	Q: Anh ấy nói, Lo âu. K: Lo âu.
1:07:48	S: He said, your anxiety. K: Anxiety. All right. Question anxiety. Why are you anxious? The majority of people are anxious. Right? Because they have no money or they are anxious their husband may be looking at somebody else. Right? Anxiety. Are you anxious, any of you? You are anxious?	Tốt thôi. Hỏi lo âu. Tại sao bạn lo lắng? Đa số đều lo lắng. Phải không? Vì họ không có tiền hay họ lo chồng mình có lẽ nhìn ai khác. Phải không? Lo âu. Bạn có lo âu không? Bạn lo lắng chứ?
1:08:21	S: Sometimes, yes. K: Why?	Q: Thỉnh thoảng, vâng. K: Tại sao?
1:08:24	S: Because of different things. K: Tell me one.	Q: Vì nhiều việc. K: Kể tôi nghe một việc xem.
1:08:29	S: No.	Q: Không.
1:08:34	S: Isn’t it that the desperateness for security is very forceful that the atmosphere of questioning is not there, that’s why...	Q: Tuyệt vọng tìm an toàn không phải quá mạnh làm mất bầu không khí hỏi han sao? đó là vì
1:08:47	K: Tunki, I can’t hear you.	K: Tunki, tôi không nghe rõ. Q: Anh ấy nói thất vọng vì tìm kiếm
1:08:52	S: What he says is that the desperate search for security prevents actual questioning.	an toàn ngăn cản hỏi han.
1:08:57	K: Yes, sir.	K: Vâng.
1:09:00	S: So, how can questioning... K: Now just a minute, Tunki, when I am very anxious I can’t question. Right? But then I begin, there must be – I am not anxious all the time. There is anxiety when I wake up and as I take my coffee or tea, whatever it is, that anxiety recedes a little bit, then I begin to question.	Q: Vậy làm sao có thể hỏi K: Khoan đã, Tunki khi quá lo lắng tôi không thể hỏi. Phải không? Nhưng rồi tôi bắt đầu phải có - tôi không lo lắng mãi. Lo lắng khi tôi thức giấc và khi tôi uống cà phê hay trà, hay gì đó lo lắng ấy giảm bớt, tôi liền bắt đầu hỏi.
1:09:41	S: In this questioning of why, would it not be important to question without trying to find an answer. It seems that if we try to find an answer, we just give ourselves excuses for what we are.	Q: Khi hỏi tại sao ấy không phải quan trọng là hỏi mà không cố tìm trả lời sao? Có vẻ như nếu chúng ta cố tìm câu trả lời chúng ta chỉ tự biện minh hiện trạng mình.
1:09:53	K: Of course. When you question and find an answer, question that answer. You follow, sir? Learn the art. It’s not just that you begin to question everything, learn the art of questioning. You stop questioning sometimes and say, ‘Yes, by Jove, why am I questioning?’ Look without questioning. You follow? Learn about it.	K: Dĩ nhiên. Khi bạn hỏi và tìm trả lời, hãy hỏi trả lời. (Cười) Bạn theo kịp không? Hãy học nghệ thuật. Không chỉ bạn bắt đầu hỏi mọi điều hãy học nghệ thuật hỏi. Đôi lúc bạn ngừng hỏi và nói 'Vâng, lạy trời, tại sao tôi hỏi?' Hãy nhìn mà không hỏi. Bạn theo kịp không? Học nó.
1:10:25	S: Do people become discouraged with their questioning because they don’t get something from it?	Q: Phải chăng mọi người nản chí với hỏi han bởi họ không được gì từ đó?
1:10:29	K: Yes, sir. They get discouraged, disappointed, hurt.	K: Vâng. Họ nản chí, buồn lòng, tổn thương.
1:10:35	S: Because they want something that will give them security.	Q: Vì họ muốn điều gì cho họ an toàn.
1:10:37	K: Yes. Or, I have been secure and you’re taking it away from me, I become anxious. What I am, sir, – just two minutes, just listen. Will you? I saw that ticket, that sticker on that bumper in California and I said, I wonder if the gentleman or the person who put that sticker on the bumper really questions, or it’s just a slogan. You understand what I am saying? It is just a slogan, but he never questions, says, ‘Why am I doing this? Why am I thinking this? Why do I believe?’ So, questioning is a great art. Right? It isn’t that I question, I move, I see the subtleties of it. Right? See the depth of it. And the beauty of enquiry, see bit by bit how extraordinarily complex this thing is. Why man has lived in illusions for thousands of years; if it is not Christian gods, then there is Muslim gods. Right? If it isn’t that, there have been gods by the thousand for the last 5000 years and more. Some like the Buddhists deny god, but there is always this search, longing for something beyond all this misery. Right? All this conflict, all this ugliness in the world. So they invent something and they worship it. You understand?	K: Vâng. Hay, tôi an toàn và bạn giật nó khỏi tôi tôi lo âu. Tôi là gì - hai phút, chỉ nghe thôi. Được chứ? Tôi thấy nhãn dán trên cản xe ở Cali và tôi nói, tôi tự hỏi không biết anh chàng dán tấm nhãn trên cản xe thực sự hỏi, hay chỉ là khẩu hiệu. Bạn hiểu lời tôi chứ? Đó chỉ là khẩu hiệu nhưng anh ta không hề hỏi, 'Tại sao tôi làm thế? Tại sao tôi nghĩ thế? Tại sao tôi tin?' Vậy, hỏi là một nghệ thuật lớn. Phải không? Đó không phải tôi hỏi, tôi di chuyển, tôi thấy cái vi tế đó. Đúng không? Hãy nhìn chiều sâu ấy. Và cái đẹp của tìm kiếm hãy nhìn từng chút cái quá phức tạp của việc này. Tại sao con người sống trong ảo tưởng bao ngàn năm nếu không thánh Cơ đốc thì có thánh đạo Hồi. Phải không? Nếu không thế, cũng có hàng ngàn thần thánh đã 5000 năm hay hơn. Vài người như Phật tử từ chối thần thánh nhưng vẫn có tìm kiếm mong muốn điều gì vượt khỏi mọi đau khổ này. Phải không? Mọi xung đột ấy, mọi xấu xa ấy trên thế giới. Vậy là họ tạo ra điều gì rồi phụng thờ. Bạn hiểu chứ?
1:13:05	S: Like enlightenment. K: Yes, quite right. Enlightenment is not something you experience or something that somebody gives you. That’s all such nonsense. So, as I was saying, sir, find out the art of questioning. Learn a great deal about it. You spend a great deal of time, don’t you, in mathematics, learning mathematics. Right? Or geography, history, whatever it is, and you don’t give even ten minutes to this. And so you become excellent in one direction and dull in the other direction. What time is it? S: One o’clock.	Q: Như giác ngộ. K: Vâng, đúng thế. Giác ngộ không phải điều bạn kinh nghiệm hay cái ai cho bạn. Thảy đều vô nghĩa. Vậy, như tôi đã nói, hãy tìm nghệ thuật hỏi. Hãy học nó thật nhiều. Bạn tốn nhiều thì giờ, phải không toán học, học toán học. Đúng không? Hay địa lý, lịch sử, hay gì đó và đến nổi bạn không dành cho nó mười phút. Và bạn rất giỏi trong một hướng nào và lại tệ trong hướng khác. Mấy giờ rồi? Q: Một giờ.
1:14:12	K: I think we had better stop, don’t you. No? Would you like to try something? Sit very quietly – just a minute, just a minute – before you sit. Sit very quietly, absolutely quiet, with your eyes closed, and find out what you are thinking. And why you are thinking, that particular thought or a series of thoughts. Try it. And find out if your brain can be so quiet, without a single thought.	K: Có lẽ nên nghỉ thôi, phải không. Không à? (Cười) Bạn muốn thử gì đó? Q: Vâng. K: Ngồi yên lặng - chỉ một phút, một phút - trước khi ngồi. Ngồi thật yên lặng, tuyệt đối im lặng mắt nhắm lại và xem coi bạn đang nghĩ gì. Và có một ý nghĩ hay nhiều ý nghĩ. Thử xem. Và xem coi trí óc bạn có thể nào im lặng, không chút suy tư.