Krishnamurti - Thời gian có cần thiết để chấm dứt điều gì về tâm lý?

Krishnamurti Subtitles

OJ80T3 - Thời gian có cần thiết để chấm dứt điều gì về tâm lý?
Buổi Nói Chuyện thứ ba
Ojai, USA
10 tháng Năm 1980

0:34	May we continue where we left off last Sunday. Perhaps some of you were not here so we have to go over again a little bit briefly, what we were saying.	Chúng ta có thể nói tiếp Chủ nhật qua. Có lẽ vài bạn không có mặt nên chúng ta phải nói lại một chút tóm tắt điều đã nói.
1:08	We have been saying for many years that society cannot possibly be changed: the society which is in great turmoil, which is corrupt, where there is war, a great deal of struggle between human beings, that society cannot possibly be changed unless human beings who have created it bring about a radical change in themselves. This is what we've said and we must explain a little more about it.	Chúng ta đã nói, qua nhiều năm xã hội không thể thay đổi: xã hội rối loạn quá sức, nó hư hoại, nơi có chiến tranh, quá nhiều tranh đấu giữa người với người, xã hội ấy không thể thay đổi trừ khi con người, kẻ tạo ra nó thay đổi tận gốc trong chính họ. Chúng ta đã nói thế và phải giải thích đôi chút.
2:15	But please, this is not a gathering for entertainment. This is not a meeting of people together to be mentally, intellectually or romantically, stimulated. We are here, I hope, to face this problem which is this enormous confusion, mischief, great danger, which human beings are facing. To go into it very deeply we must think together about the problem.	Nhưng này, đây không phải buổi họp giải trí. Không phải buổi họp để kích thích tinh thần, trí óc hay tưởng tượng. Chúng ta ở đây, tôi mong, để giáp mặt vấn đề sai lầm, rối loạn quá lớn, nguy hiểm tột độ, mà con người đối mặt. Để tìm hiểu sâu chúng ta phải cùng suy tư vấn đề.
3:20	We cannot possibly think together if we have contradictory opinions. If we are anchored in our own particular conclusion or belief. Or hold on to some fantastic or romantic experience. Because this problem faces all mankind. Wherever you go, if you have travelled, not as a tourist but wherever you go you'll find the same problem: man against man, confusion, fear, lack of integrity. And the scientist, the psychologists somehow don't seem to be able to resolve this problem, nor the politicians, nor the institutions whether they are religious or political or social.	Không thể cùng suy tư nếu chúng ta có ý niệm mâu thuẫn. Nếu chúng ta bám chặt niềm tin hay kết luận riêng. Hay ôm giữ kinh nghiệm lạ lùng, hay tưởng tượng. Bởi vấn đề đối mặt cả nhân loại. Dù đi đâu, nếu bạn đi, không như khách du lịch thì ở đâu, cũng sẽ thấy vấn đề như nhau: người chống người, rối loạn, sợ hãi, thiếu toàn vẹn. Và nhà khoa học, nhà tâm lý cách nào đó hình như không thể giải quyết vấn đề, chính trị gia, hay học viện cũng không dù là tôn giáo, chính trị hay xã hội.
5:02	So it behoves us, if we are at all serious and concerned that we, human beings who have created that society and we are responsible for all the things that are happening in the world, the appalling cruelty, to animals, to human beings, the religious tortures in the past, and so on. We have created them. And to understand that, not merely intellectually but to really face it.	Nên chúng ta cần, nếu nghiêm túc và quan tâm rằng chúng ta, con người đã tạo ra xã hội và chúng ta trách nhiệm với mọi việc xảy ra trên thế giới, bạo tàn đáng sợ, với thú vật, với con người, tra tấn tôn giáo thời xưa, v.v.. Chúng ta tạo ra chúng. Và thấu hiểu nó, không chỉ trí óc mà thực sự giáp mặt.
6:03	I hope we can think together about the problem. That is, if one has a particular point of view and another holds his opinion then it's impossible to think together. If you are prejudiced and the speaker has a particular point of view then we cannot possibly think together. Thinking together does not mean agreeing but rather, together, human beings, as two human beings, not Americans and Hindus and all that business but two human beings who are confronted with this problem: the problem that human beings have created, this society which is so terrifying and, as human beings, we have to radically change ourselves. And is that possible? Is it possible for a human mind which has evolved through time, many millennia upon millennia, passed through great many experiences, sufferings, many conflicting incidents, wars, this mind of the human being, this brain - which is not yours or mine but the brain that has evolved, five, ten million years, it's the human brain, not a particular brain. But we have reduced it as a particular brain, mine and yours but if you examine it very carefully one will find this brain which has evolved through time, is the brain of mankind. Please don't reject it or accept it, examine it, look at it. Because this brain of ours suffers, is anxious, lonely, frightened, pursuing constant pleasure. And this brain has lived in a particular pattern and this pattern is repeated over and over and over again all over the world, whether they are Buddhists, Hindus, Communists Catholics or whatever, what you will.	Tôi mong chúng ta có thể cùng suy tư vấn đề. Nghĩa là, nếu bạn có quan điểm riêng và kẻ khác giữ quan điểm họ thì không thể cùng suy tư. Nếu bạn định kiến và người nói có quan điểm riêng thì chúng ta không thể cùng suy tư. Cùng suy tư không nghĩa là đồng ý mà hơn thế, cùng nhau, con người, như hai người, không phải Mỹ và Hin đu hay mọi việc đó mà hai con người giáp mặt vấn đề: vấn đề con người đã tạo ra, xã hội quá khủng khiếp và, con người, chúng ta phải thay đổi chính mình. Và có thể chứ? Có thể nào trí óc con người đã tiến hóa qua thời gian, nhiều thiên niên kỷ, trải qua quá nhiều kinh nghiệm, khổ đau, nhiều sự cố xung đột, chiến tranh, trí óc ấy của con người, não ấy - không của tôi hay bạn mà là não đã tiến hóa, năm, mười triệu năm, là não nhân loại, không phải não riêng. Nhưng chúng ta thu hẹp như não riêng, của tôi hay bạn nhưng nếu xem xét thật kỹ bạn sẽ thấy não ấy đã tiến hóa qua thời gian, là não nhân loại. Xin đừng bỏ hay nhận, hãy xem xét, nhìn nó. Bởi não ấy của chúng ta đau khổ, lo âu, cô đơn, đấu tranh, mãi theo đuổi thú vui. Và não ấy sống trong khuôn khổ riêng và khuôn ấy lặp lại và cứ lặp lại lặp lại khắp thế giới, dù họ là Phật giáo, Hin đu, Cộng sản Cơ đốc hay gì gì bạn muốn.
9:59	So it is not your brain or a particular individual's brain, it's the brain of mankind! And that brain has functioned in various patterns, pattern of fear, pattern of pleasure, and reward or punishment. That's the pattern, through all these millennia, it has developed. And is it possible to bring about not another series of pleasurable patterns or patterns of fear, beliefs and so on, but to go beyond all these patterns otherwise there is no radical change there is no psychological revolution. I think this is important to understand.	Nên không phải não bạn hay não riêng cá nhân, mà là não nhân loại! Và não ấy hoạt động trong nhiều khuôn mẫu, khuôn sợ hãi, khuôn thú vui, và thưởng hay phạt. Đó là khuôn mẫu, qua bao thiên niên kỷ, nó đã phát triển. Và có thể nào tạo ra không phải hàng loạt khuôn thú vui hay khuôn sợ hãi, niềm tin, v.v.. mà là vượt qua mọi khuôn ấy ngược lại không có thay đổi tận căn không có cách mạng tâm lý. Tôi nghĩ thấu hiểu rất quan trọng.
11:33	Again, please, you're not listening to a talk by some strange person. We are together thinking, enquiring into the problem. So you're not, if you will kindly follow it, you're not accepting any authority, we're not doing any propaganda or trying to convince you of anything. But seeing the problem, which is very complex, and looking at that problem, facing that problem and enquiring together into that problem. The enquiry into the problem is not analysis: the cause, effect. Enquiry is not... Enquiry is not argument, opposing one opinion against another opinion, one prejudice against another. Enquiry implies observation. Where there is observation there is no analysis. When you observe, that is when you observe without fear, without your own particular prejudice, or idiosyncrasy, then in that observation analysis ends. I hope we are doing this together.	Lại nữa, làm ơn, bạn đừng nghe nói chuyện bởi người kỳ lạ nào. Chúng ta cùng suy tư, tìm hiểu vấn đề. Vậy bạn đừng, nếu bạn vui lòng theo dõi, bạn đừng chấp nhận uy quyền gì, chúng ta không tuyên truyền hay thuyết phục bạn điều gì. Mà nhìn vấn đề, rất phức tạp, và nhìn vào vấn đề, giáp mặt vấn đề và cùng nhau tìm hiểu vấn đề. Tìm hiểu vấn đề không phải phân tích: nhân, quả. Tìm hiểu không phải... Tìm hiểu không phải tranh cãi, đối nghịch quan điểm này khác, định kiến này khác. Tìm hiểu hàm ý quan sát. Ở đâu có quan sát thì không có phân tích. Khi bạn quan sát, tức khi quan sát không có sợ hãi, không có định kiến, hay tính khí riêng, thì khi quan sát phân tích chấm dứt. Hy vọng chúng ta cùng làm vậy.
14:14	That is, when you observe a tree, that thing, the very observation is through words: the moment you see it, you call it a tree. Please do this as we are talking. To look at that thing without the word, which is to observe actually what it is. That's fairly clear. But to do that psychologically is much more complex. To observe without any motive, to observe what actually is going on: your fear, your anxiety, your loneliness, one's own sense of lacking, depression, whatever is actually going on. To observe it without analysis, without judging, without evaluating, just to observe. I hope this is becoming clear. Can we do this, together? Our minds have been trained to analyse, to see the cause and discover the effect and in the very process of discovering the effect the effect becomes the cause. It is a chain. You're following all this?	Tức là, khi bạn quan sát cây, vật nọ, quan sát trải qua chữ nghĩa: lúc bạn nhìn nó, bạn gọi là cây. Hãy làm khi chúng ta nói. Nhìn vật ấy mà không chữ nghĩa, là quan sát nó hiện là. Đó khá rõ. Nhưng làm thế về tâm lý phức tạp hơn nhiều. Quan sát không có thôi thúc, quan sát việc đang xảy ra: sợ hãi, lo âu, cô đơn, cảm giác trống vắng riêng, nản lòng, gì đó đang xảy ra. Quan sát không phân tích, không phán đoán, không đánh giá, chỉ quan sát. Tôi mong vậy là rõ. Chúng ta có thể cùng làm chứ? Trí óc chúng ta được rèn để phân tích, nhìn nhân và khám phá quả và trong tiến trình khám phá quả ấy quả trở thành nhân. Nó là sợi xích. Bạn theo kịp hết không?
16:24	I think it's one of our calamities that we have during these... probably hundred years, we have Communism and psychoanalysis, because they now prevent your being actually responsible for yourself. If there is any trouble, turmoil in yourself, you go to an analyst or some institution or some group, and so on. You, as a human being, you are now becoming not free, but depending on others. Depending on the church, depending on politics, depending on your gurus, or whatever it is, you are always depending on somebody to change, to bring about order in yourself. So we are nearly losing our freedom to be responsible for ourselves. That's why Communism makes one irresponsible. Like psychoanalysis: it reduces you or makes you depend on somebody to solve your problem.	Tôi nghĩ nó là thảm họa mà chúng ta hứng chịu suốt... có lẽ hàng trăm năm, chúng ta có Cộng sản và phân tâm học, bởi chúng đang cản trở bạn thực sự trách nhiệm với chính mình. Nếu có rối loạn gì trong bạn, bạn đến nhà phân tích hay học viện hay nhóm nào, v.v.. Bạn, một con người, đang trở thành mất tự do, lệ thuộc kẻ khác. Lệ thuộc nhà thờ, lệ thuộc chính trị, lệ thuộc đạo sư, hay gì gì, bạn luôn lệ thuộc ai đó để thay đổi, để tạo ra trật tự trong bạn. Vậy gần như chúng ta mất tự do để trách nhiệm với chính mình. Đó là lý do cộng sản làm bạn vô trách nhiệm. cũng như phân tâm học: thu nhỏ và làm bạn lệ thuộc ai khác để giải quyết vấn đề. Vậy điều chúng ta nói
18:22	So what we're saying is that as human beings we are responsible for the disorder that exists in the world. And this disorder is created by thought. That's where we ended up last week, last Sunday. We said that thought has created not only the marvellous architecture, the marvellous cathedrals and the temples, and the mosques, it has created the technological world, beneficial and destructive, war and the instruments of war.	là con người chúng ta trách nhiệm với rối loạn hiện có trên thế giới. Và rối loạn ấy do suy nghĩ tạo ra. Chỗ đó chúng ta dừng tuần rồi, Chủ nhật. Chúng ta nói suy nghĩ tạo ra không chỉ kiến trúc tuyệt vời, thánh đường tuyệt vời và đền thờ, và đền Hồi, nó đã tạo ra thế giới kỹ thuật, lợi lạc và phá huỷ, chiến tranh và chiến cụ. Suy nghĩ đã tạo ra,
19:46	Thought has created, has brought about the division between human beings: nationalistic, class, political, economic, spiritual, religious divisions. If you examine it closely, you will see that's a fact. Thought has been responsible for all this. Not only what is inside the temples, the churches but also what is outside in the world. So unless we understand very deeply the nature of thought there is no possibility of bringing about a radical change. Right? Are we together in this, so far? Thought has created the technological world. Right? Thought also has created the images: about oneself, about the various national divisions, thought has created the Arab, the Jew, the Hindu, the Muslim, and so on and so on. Thought has also created the marvellous architecture and the churches, the cathedrals and the images in all those cathedrals, temples and mosques. There are no images in the Islamic world but they have the scripture, the writing which is also a form of image.	sinh ra phân chia giữa con người: quốc tịch, giai cấp, chính trị, kinh tế, tâm linh, phân chia tôn giáo. Nếu xem xét kỹ, bạn sẽ thấy đó là thực tế. Suy nghĩ trách nhiệm mọi thứ. Không chỉ bên trong đền, nhà thờ mà cả thế giới bên ngoài. Vậy nếu chúng ta không hiểu thật rõ bản chất suy nghĩ thì không thể nào tạo ra thay đổi tận gốc. Phải không? Chúng ta cùng tới đây chứ? Suy nghĩ đã tạo ra thế giới kỹ thuật. Phải không? Suy nghĩ cũng tạo ra hình ảnh: về chính bạn, về nhiều phân chia quốc gia, suy nghĩ tạo ra Ả rập, Do thái, Hin đu, Hồi giáo, v.v.. Suy nghĩ cũng đã tạo ra kiến trúc tuyệt vời và nhà thờ, thánh đường và hình ảnh trong các thánh đường, đền thờ, đền Hồi. Không có hình ảnh trong thế giới đạo Hồi nhưng họ có kinh thánh, chữ viết cũng là một dạng hình ảnh. Nhưng suy nghĩ không tạo ra thiên nhiên:
22:06	But thought has not created nature: the tree, the river, the skies, the stars, those lovely mountains, the birds. But thought is using them, destroying them, destroying the earth, polluting the air and so on. So if we want to resolve this problem of conflict, struggle, turmoil, confusion in the human mind and so in the human society, we must go into this question of what is thinking. Right? Are we meeting together? Please, shall we? No, Sir, not only you but all of us together.	cây cối, sông suối, bầu trời, sao, núi non đáng yêu, chim chóc. Nhưng suy nghĩ dùng chúng, phá huỷ chúng, phá huỷ trái đất, ô nhiễm không khí, v.v.. Vậy nếu muốn giải quyết vấn đề xung đột, tranh đấu, rối loạn, lộn xộn trong trí óc và trong xã hội con người, chúng ta phải tìm hiểu vấn đề suy nghĩ là gì. Phải không? Chúng ta gặp nhau chứ? Nào, vậy chứ? Không, không chỉ bạn mà tất cả cùng nhau. Chúng ta hỏi: suy nghĩ là gì, suy tư là gì?
23:08	We are asking: what is thought, what is thinking? Why has thought made all this? Why has thought brought about marvellous medicine and also why thought creates wars and destroys human beings? Why has thought made God and why has thought made the image of God? Thought has made the image of God. And also thought has brought such enormous conflict between human beings, between you and your intimate friend, intimate person, wife, husband, boy and so on and so on. Are you interested in all this? Or have you come here to enjoy a rather cool morning, sitting under the trees? If you are really interested - not in what is being said but rather interested to find out. Interested to find out for yourself why has thought done this, what is the nature of thought. That means, together we are looking into it. That means you must exercise your observation, you must go into it as alertly, keenly, passionately as the speaker is doing. Not just sit there and casually listen and go away. This is not an entertainment, this is a very serious affair.	Tại sao suy nghĩ làm mọi thứ này? Tại sao suy nghĩ tạo ra thuốc men tuyệt vời và suy nghĩ cũng tạo chiến tranh và phá huỷ con người? Tại sao suy nghĩ tạo Thượng đế và tại sao suy nghĩ tạo hình ảnh Thượng đế? Suy nghĩ tạo hình ảnh Thượng đế. Và suy nghĩ cũng tạo ra xung đột dữ dội giữa con người, giữa bạn và bạn thân bạn, người thân, vợ, chồng, con trai, v.v.. Bạn thích thú không? Hay bạn đến đây để vui buổi sáng mát mẻ, ngồi dưới tàng cây? Nếu bạn thực sự thích - không phải gì được nói mà thích tìm tòi. Thích tìm cho chính bạn tại sao suy nghĩ làm thế, bản chất suy nghĩ là gì. Nghĩa là cùng nhau chúng ta nhìn nó. Nghĩa là bạn phải thực hành quan sát, bạn phải tìm hiểu nó nhanh nhạy, chính xác, nhiệt tình như người nói đang làm. Không chỉ ngồi kia nghe tình cờ rồi bỏ đi. Đây không phải giải trí, đây là việc rất nghiêm túc. Vậy chúng ta tìm hiểu, cùng thảo luận như hai người bạn.
26:12	So we are enquiring, talking over together as two friends. You can't talk together with so many people but it's two people, you and the speaker, trying to find out why thought has made this confusion, this turmoil. So thought is matter. Thought is the response of memory. Right? If you had no memory you wouldn't be able to think, if you had no remembrance of things past, thought wouldn't operate. So thought is the response of memory. Memory is the outcome of various experiences, multiple incidents, accidents, which have been accumulated as knowledge - follow all this, sirs - stored up in the brain. And that experience, that knowledge, which is memory, and the reaction of that memory is thinking. Right? It's not what I'm saying - you can discover it for yourself. Right? Is that clear? Can we go on from there? That is, through millennia, we have acquired different kinds of knowledge: literary, scientific, personal, experiences. Those experiences have become knowledge both scientific and personal. That knowledge is stored in the brain. So that brain is not your knowledge, it is the human knowledge. I know we like to think that it's my brain and your brain.	Bạn không thể cùng nói với nhiều người, mà chỉ hai người, bạn và người nói, cố gắng tìm ra tại sao suy nghĩ tạo ra lộn xộn, rối loạn ấy. Vậy suy nghĩ là vật chất. Suy nghĩ là đáp ứng từ ký ức. Phải không? Nếu không có ký ức bạn không thể suy nghĩ, nếu không nhớ lại chuyện cũ, suy nghĩ không hoạt động. Vậy suy nghĩ là đáp ứng ký ức. Ký ức là kết quả của nhiều kinh nghiệm, vô số sự cố, tai nạn, nó được tích chứa như kiến thức - theo dõi nhé - được lưu lại trong não. Và kinh nghiệm ấy, kiến thức ấy, là ký ức. và phản ứng từ ký ức ấy là suy nghĩ. Phải không? Không phải lời tôi nói - bạn có thể khám phá cho bạn. Phải không? Rõ chứ? Có thể tiếp tục từ đó? Nghĩa là, hàng thiên niên kỷ, chúng ta đạt nhiều loại kiến thức: văn chương, khoa học, cá nhân, kinh nghiệm. Kinh nghiệm ấy trở thành kiến thức cả khoa học và cá nhân. Kiến thức ấy được lưu trong não. Nên não không phải kiến thức bạn, là kiến thức nhân loại. Tôi biết chúng ta thích nghĩ nó là não tôi và não bạn. Vậy kiến thức, kinh nghiệm được lưu trong não như ký ức,
29:18	So this knowledge, experience stored in the brain as memory, must always be limited because knowledge is never complete. Right? Can never be complete, in any field. So with knowledge goes ignorance. Therefore thought is always limited, partial. It can never be complete. Right? Don't agree with me, sirs, examine it. So thought has created this world of confusion because in itself it is limited. Right? Thought, as we said, is matter. That thought can only create matter, thing. Right? It can create illusions, it can create marvellous ideas, utopias, marvellous systems, theories but that very theory, that very ideal, that very concept by the theologians, or by the historians, is always limited. Right? So our actions are always limited. Therefore our actions are fragmented. Right? Our action can never be complete if it is based on thought. Right, sirs? If one realises that, not as an idea but as an actuality - you understand the difference? The idea and the actual. You hear this statement, that thought can never be complete, whatever it creates must be incomplete. You hear that statement and instinctively you make an abstraction of it into an idea. You're following all this? Are we together in this? An abstraction, away from the fact. So then the idea becomes all-important. And then you think, 'How am I to carry out that idea?' So there is again division between action and idea. Are we going too fast? It's up to you.	luôn phải bị giới hạn bởi kiến thức không hề hoàn hảo. Phải không? Không hề hoàn hảo, trong mọi lĩnh vực. Nên kiến thức đi với ngu dốt. Vì vậy suy nghĩ luôn giới hạn, thành phần. Nó không bao giờ hoàn hảo. Phải không? Đừng đồng ý với tôi, xem xét đi. Vậy suy nghĩ tạo ra thế giới rối loạn này bởi chính nó giới hạn. Phải không? Suy nghĩ, như đã nói, là vật chất. Suy nghĩ chỉ có thể tạo ra vật chất, vật. Phải không? Nó có thể tạo ra ảo tưởng, nó có thể tạo ra ý niệm tuyệt vời, điều không tưởng, hệ thống tuyệt vời, lý thuyết nhưng lý thuyết ấy, lý tưởng ấy, quan niệm ấy bởi nhà thần học, hay sử gia, luôn giới hạn. Phải không? Nên hành động luôn giới hạn. Vì vậy hành động manh mún. Phải không? Hành động không hề hoàn hảo nếu dựa trên suy nghĩ. Phải không? Nếu bạn nhận ra, không như ý niệm mà là thực tế - bạn hiểu sự khác nhau không? Ý niệm và thực tế. Bạn nghe câu này, rằng suy nghĩ không hề hoàn hảo, bất cứ gì nó tạo ra phải là bất toàn. Bạn nghe câu ấy và theo bản năng bạn rút ra từ đó một ý niệm. Bạn theo kịp hết không? Chúng ta cùng ở đây chứ? Sự rút ra, từ thực tế. Rồi ý niệm thành quá quan trọng. Và bạn nghĩ, 'Làm sao tôi thực hiện ý niệm ấy?' Vậy lại phân chia giữa hành động và ý niệm. Chúng ta đi nhanh quá à? Tuỳ bạn. Vậy: quan sát không đúc kết, quan sát không phân tích,
33:37	So: observation without abstraction, observation without analysis, observation without any form of conclusion. Just to observe the nature of thinking. That is, who is the observer who is observing the nature of thinking? I wonder if you see this. You understand, sir? Somebody I must talk to. Right? Can I pick on somebody, sir? Right, sir, let's put it this way. One is very greedy, self-centred. That's a fact. Is greed different from you? You understand my question? You are greed! But we have unfortunately created an illusion, that is greed and I will act, do something about that greed. Right? So there is a division between greed and the actor who will act upon greed. Right? So is that a fact? Or is it a pattern which we have developed to escape from the fact? Right? I wonder if you're meeting all this. That is, I am greedy, I don't quite know how to resolve this whole problem of greed so I created its opposite, non-greed, and work with non-greed, which is non-fact. You're following all this? So we are saying, the observer is the observed. Right? Right, sir? So there is no division. Sir, look, there is a division between the Jew and the Arab, right? Created by thought: by racial prejudices, by religious conditioning. But they are living on the same earth. But they are all fighting each other.	quan sát không kết luận gì. Chỉ quan sát bản chất của suy nghĩ. Nghĩa là, ai là người quan sát đang quan sát bản chất của suy nghĩ? Không biết bạn có thấy vậy. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi phải nói với ai đó. Phải không? Tôi có thể chọn ai không? Đúng rồi, hãy nói cách này. Bạn rất tham lam, vị kỷ. Đó là thực tế. Tham có khác với bạn? Hiểu câu hỏi không? Bạn là tham! Nhưng không may chúng ta tạo ảo tưởng, kia là tham và tôi sẽ tác động, làm gì đó với tham ấy. Phải không? Vậy có phân chia giữa tham và người làm kẻ sẽ tác động lên tham. Phải không. Đó là thực tế? Hay đó là khuôn mẫu chúng ta phát triển để chạy trốn thực tế? Phải không? Không rõ bạn có gặp nhau chỗ này. Tức là, tôi tham, tôi hoàn toàn không biết làm sao giải quyết vấn đề tham nên tôi tạo ra đối nghịch, không tham. và làm việc với không tham, là phi thực tế. Bạn theo kịp hết không? Vậy chúng ta nói, người quan sát là vật bị quan sát. Phải không? Phải không? Vậy không có phân chia. Nhìn đi, có phân chia giữa Do thái và Ả rập, phải không? Tạo ra bởi suy nghĩ: bởi định kiến sắc tộc, bởi qui định tôn giáo. Nhưng họ sống trên cùng quả đất. Nhưng họ lại đánh đấm nhau. Giờ nếu bạn quan sát thật kỹ
37:19	Now if you observe it very carefully the human mind is conditioned as a Hindu, as a Muslim, Arab, Jew, Christian, non-Christian. You follow? It has been conditioned. And that conditioning says, 'I'm different from you'. Right? And these differences of conditioning, by thought, encouraged by various people for political, religious reasons, and we hold on to that division. So where there is division there must be struggle, there must be conflict. So when one realises that greed is not separate from me, I am greed, then there is totally a different movement taking place. You're following this, sir? Are we meeting each other in this point? Gosh, it seems so difficult. Is it very complex, what we're talking about? Yes, sir? Look at it, sir.	trí óc con người bị qui định như Hin đu, Hồi giáo, Ả rập, Do thái, Cơ đốc, phi Cơ đốc. Kịp không? Nó bị qui định. Và qui định ấy nói, 'tôi khác với bạn'. Phải không? Và sự khác nhau của qui định, do suy nghĩ, được cổ vũ bởi nhiều người vì lý do chính trị, tôn giáo, và chúng ta ôm giữ phân chia ấy. Vậy nơi đâu có phân chia tất phải có đấu tranh, phải có xung đột. Nên khi bạn nhận ra tham không tách biệt với tôi, tôi là tham, liền có vận hành hoàn toàn khác xảy ra. Bạn theo kịp hết không? Chúng ta gặp nhau điểm này chứ? Kỳ thật, hình như quá khó. Điều chúng ta nói, có quá phức tạp? Có chứ? Nhìn đi. Làm sao bạn giáp mặt bạo lực?
38:53	How will you meet violence? Human beings are violent. Right? We have cultivated the opposite. Right? The non-violence, don't be violent, be kind, be just, be all the rest of it. But basically we are violent, it still goes on, after a million years. Is that violence different from you? It's not, obviously. You are violence! Now can you observe that fact without making any kind of idea about the fact? Then what takes place? You're following all this? I'm violent. As a human being I'm violent. And I have lived with that violence for a million years, my brain has formed the pattern of not being violent and yet violence. And the pursuit of not being violent is an escape from the fact. And, if I observe the fact, is the fact of being violent different from me, my nature, my way of looking? I am that. Right? Do we agree?	Con người là bạo lực. Phải không? Chúng ta vun bồi đối nghịch. Phải không? Phi bạo lực, đừng bạo lực, hãy tử tế, công bình, v.v.. Nhưng cơ bản chúng ta bạo lực, nó cứ tiếp tục, sau hàng triệu năm. Bạo lực có khác với bạn? Không, dĩ nhiên. Bạn là bạo lực! Chúng ta có thể quan sát thực tế mà không tạo ý niệm nào về thực tế? Rồi gì xảy ra? Bạn theo kịp hết không? Tôi bạo lực. Như con người tôi bạo lực. Và tôi đã sống với bạo lực ấy hàng triệu năm, não tôi đã hình thành khuôn mẫu về phi bạo lực nhưng là bạo lực. Và theo đuổi phi bạo lực ấy là chạy trốn thực tế. Và, nếu tôi quan sát thực tế, thực tế bạo lực có khác với tôi, bản chất tôi, cách tôi nhìn? Tôi là nó. Phải không? Chúng ta đồng ý chứ? Rồi, xung đột hiện hữu trước đó
41:00	Then, the conflict which existed before ends, doesn't it? I wonder if you see this. The conflict of division between violence and not being violent, that's a conflict, but when there is the realisation, 'I am conflict', not 'I am different from conflict', then that conflict ends. And a totally different action takes place. So sir, our question is:	chấm dứt, phải không? Không biết bạn có thấy vậy. Xung đột của phân chia giữa bạo lực và phi bạo lực, đó là xung đột, nhưng khi nhận ra, 'tôi là xung đột', không phải 'tôi khác với xung đột', xung đột liền chấm dứt. Và hành động hoàn toàn khác xảy ra. Vậy, vấn đề là: suy nghĩ là vận hành trong thời gian.
42:00	thought is the movement in time. Right? Thought is based on memory, which is the past, the past with all its conclusions, ideas, beliefs, images, from that past the present, the past meets the present and the future. Right? There's a constant modification going on. That is time. Right? There is not only chronological time, by the watch, by the day, night, night and day but also there is psychological time. Right? 'I will be'. When you say, 'I will be' that is time. 'I must become something' - that's time. 'I am not good but I will be good', that's time. And time is also thought. Right? Time as day and night, time when you have to go and catch the bus, time to acquire knowledge, to learn a language, time to acquire any kind of technological knowledge, to act skilfully, to earn a livelihood, all that is time, requires time. Psychologically, inwardly, we have also this idea of time. Right? 'I am not' but 'I will be'. 'I am confused, I'll go to the analyst, he will help me'. Time. So psychologically we have cultivated this idea of time. Right?	Phải không? Suy nghĩ dựa trên ký ức, là quá khứ, quá khứ với mọi kết luận, ý niệm, niềm tin, hình ảnh, từ quá khứ ấy hiện tại, quá khứ gặp hiện tại và tương lai. Phải không? Có canh cãi không ngừng xảy ra. Đó là thời gian. Phải không? Không chỉ có thời gian niên đại, bởi đồng hồ, bởi ngày đêm, đêm và ngày mà cả thời gian tâm lý. Phải không? 'Tôi sẽ là'. Khi nói, 'tôi sẽ là' đó là thời gian. 'Tôi phải thành gì đó' - đó là thời gian. 'Tôi không tốt nhưng tôi sẽ tốt', đó là thời gian. Và thời gian cũng là suy nghĩ. Phải không? Thời gian như ngày và đêm, thời gian khi bạn phải đi và đón xe buýt, thời gian để đạt kiến thức, học ngôn ngữ, thời gian để đạt kiến thức kỹ thuật nào, để hành động khéo léo, kiếm sống, mọi cái đó là thời gian, cần thời gian. Tâm lý, bên trong, cũng có ý niệm thời gian. Phải không? 'Tôi không là' nhưng 'tôi sẽ là'. 'Tôi rối loạn, tôi sẽ đến nhà phân tích, họ sẽ giúp'. Thời gian. Vậy về tâm lý chúng ta vun bồi ý niệm thời gian. Phải không? Vậy thời gian là vận hành từ đây đến kia.
44:57	So time is a movement from here to there. Psychologically also it's a movement from here to there. So thought is time. Right? This is important to understand because our brain is the essence of time and we've functioned psychologically in that pattern. 'I will have pleasure'. 'I remember being happy, having a marvellous experience, this or that, and I must have more'. This constant becoming is time. Now we're asking is that an actuality or a fiction or an illusion, psychologically? Right, sir, are you getting tired? This is too much probably, all this.	Tâm lý, nó cũng là vận hành từ đây đến kia. Nên suy nghĩ là thời gian. Phải không? Thấu hiểu rất quan trọng bởi não là nền tảng của thời gian và tâm lý chúng ta hoạt động trong khuôn ấy. 'Tôi sẽ có thú vui'. 'Tôi nhớ lại hạnh phúc, kinh nghiệm tuyệt vời, này khác, và tôi phải có thêm'. Trở thành không ngừng ấy là thời gian. Giờ chúng ta hỏi, đó là thực tế hay hư cấu hay ảo tưởng, về tâm lý? Bạn mệt, phải không? Có lẽ nhiều quá đây. Chúng ta nói, thời gian cần thiết để đạt kiến thức
46:35	We're saying, time is necessary in the acquisition of knowledge of various kinds, many kinds. Now, is time necessary to end something, psychologically? You're following? That is, psychologically, I have fear. Most human beings have fear. And they have had this fear, psychologically, probably from the very beginning of time, from the very beginning of psychological time. Right? And we haven't resolved it. Not only are we frightened of physical pain and so on, physically, but psychologically also we have great fears of getting hurt, getting bruised, wounded, psychologically, because from childhood we have been hurt, and so on. So our brain functions in time. And so it has never resolved any of the problems. I wonder if you meet this. If I say to myself, 'I will get over my fear' actually what takes place is I'm still frightened at the end of it. I exercise will, control it, escape from it and so on. And so human beings have never resolved this problem of fear. And we are saying, as long as we think in patterns of time psychologically, fear will continue. Is this clear?	nhiều loại, nhiều thứ. Thời gian có cần để chấm dứt gì đó, về tâm lý? Kịp không? Tức là, tâm lý, tôi có sợ hãi. Đa số người có sợ hãi. Và, họ có sợ hãi tâm lý ấy, có lẽ từ khởi thuỷ của thời gian, từ khởi đầu của thời gian tâm lý. Phải không? Và chúng ta không giải quyết nó. Không chỉ chúng ta sợ đau đớn vật lý, v.v.., về vật lý, mà cả tâm lý chúng ta có nhiều sợ hãi về tổn thương, bầm dập, bị thương, tâm lý, bởi từ bé chúng ta đã bị tổn thương, v.v.. Vậy não hoạt động trong thời gian. Vậy nên nó không hề giải quyết vấn đề nào. Không rõ bạn có thấy thế. Nếu tôi tự nhủ, 'tôi sẽ thoát sợ hãi' việc đang xảy ra là tôi vẫn sợ hãi đến cùng. Tôi thực thi ý chí, kiểm soát nó, chạy trốn nó, v.v.. Và vậy con người không hề giải quyết vấn đề sợ hãi. Và chúng ta nói, hễ còn suy nghĩ trong khuôn thời gian tâm lý, sợ hãi sẽ tiếp tục. Vậy rõ chứ? Vậy, chúng ta nói:
49:16	So, we are saying: can this thing called fear be ended immediately? Now let me take another example. Fear is rather a complex problem which we'll go into perhaps tomorrow, in another talk. Take for instance dependence, psychological dependence. Human beings have cultivated this because they are afraid to be alone, they are afraid to be lonely, they want comfort, they feel sustained if they depend on somebody. Because in themselves they are insufficient psychologically, therefore clinging to somebody, a religious image, or a personal image and so on, clinging to somebody.	cái gọi là sợ hãi có thể chấm dứt ngay? Để tôi lấy ví dụ khác. Sợ hãi là vấn đề khá phức tạp có lẽ chúng ta sẽ đi sâu ngày mai, buổi nói khác. Lấy ví dụ lệ thuộc, lệ thuộc tâm lý. Con người vun đắp nó bởi họ sợ cô đơn, họ sợ một mình, họ muốn dễ chịu, họ thấy còn sống nếu họ lệ thuộc ai đó. Bởi trong chính họ thiếu vắng tâm lý, nên bám víu ai khác, hình ảnh tôn giáo, hay hình ảnh cá nhân, v.v.. bám vào ai. Đó là khuôn khổ trí óc con người,
50:29	Now that has been the pattern of the human mind, cultivated through time. The consequences of dependence is fear, anxiety, jealousy, hatred, antagonism, all that follows. In that pattern we have lived. Right? Now to end that pattern immediately is the question. Because the moment you admit time, 'I will end it', you have admitted moving away from the fact. Right? The fact is, one is dependent. Now ,without admitting time, you understand, - 'I will get over it' - end it, immediately. You have broken the pattern of time. You are following this? Are you working as hard as I am working for you? That is, sir, observe how you are dependent on another, psychologically. All the remembrance, all the pictures, the images and so on - dependent. And our brain has been used to the pattern of time because it has grown with time. So it has exercised an act of will - 'I will' - and that means avoiding the fact. Now when one understands, not intellectually, or verbally but actually sees the fact, how the brain works in time and therefore never resolves, and you see the urgency of not depending, it is ended! When you end something, a new thing begins. Right?	vun đắp qua thời gian. Hậu quả của lệ thuộc là sợ hãi, lo âu, ghen tị, thù hận, đối nghịch, mọi thứ đi theo. Chúng ta sống khuôn ấy. Phải không? Giờ thì chấm dứt khuôn ấy ngay là vấn đề. Bởi khi chấp nhận thời gian, 'tôi sẽ chấm dứt', bạn đã chấp nhận rời thực tế. Phải không? Thực tế là, bạn lệ thuộc. Giờ, không chấp nhận thời gian, bạn hiểu, - 'tôi sẽ thoát nó' - chấm dứt, ngay. Bạn đã phá vỡ khuôn thời gian. Bạn theo kịp hết không? Bạn cũng làm việc cật lực như tôi chứ? Tức là, quan sát làm sao bạn lệ thuộc kẻ khác, tâm lý. Mọi nhớ lại, mọi hình, ảnh, v.v.. - lệ thuộc. Và não đã quen với khuôn thời gian bởi nó lớn lên với thời gian. Nên nó thực thi hành động ý chí - 'tôi sẽ' - và đó là lìa bỏ thực tế. Giờ khi bạn hiểu, không phải trí óc, hay chữ nghĩa mà thấy thực tế, não hoạt động trong thời gian thế nào nên không hề giải quyết, và bạn thấy sự khẩn thiết không lệ thuộc, nó chấm dứt! Khi bạn chấm dứt gì đó, cái mới bắt đầu. Phải không? Chúng ta có cùng suy tư
53:19	Are we thinking together or are you merely listening to the talk of a speaker and then saying, 'Yes, I don't quite understand what he's talking about. He talks about this and that'. Which means, you really are not thinking about the problem which is your problem, the problem of humanity, the problem which is to bring about a totally different kind of society.	hay bạn chỉ nghe người nói nói chuyện rồi nói, 'Vâng, tôi thật không hiểu anh ta nói gì. Anh ta nói này, nọ'. Nghĩa là, bạn thực sự không suy tư về vấn đề là vấn đề của bạn, vấn đề của nhân loại, vấn đề là phải tạo ra một loại xã hội hoàn toàn khác. Vậy có thể nào chấm dứt đối nghịch, hận thù,
54:11	So is it possible to end your antagonism, your hatred, your jealousy, - you understand - immediately! So that the brain has broken the pattern, and can think and can act and look and observe totally differently. I wonder if you get this! Sir, this is meditation. You understand? Not all the phoney stuff that has been talked about. To meditate, which means to observe how your mind operates not what the psychologists have told you how your mind operates, Freud and all the rest of the gang, but to observe for yourself because you are responsible for yourself, for your body, for your mind, for your thoughts. So can you observe the whole content of your consciousness? You understand? Am I making this too difficult, sirs? I don't know, would you tell me a little bit? Am I making this too difficult? Your consciousness is full of the things that thought has created. Right? Your anxieties, your beliefs, your gods, your saviours, your Krishna's - you follow? All that has been created by thought. So your consciousness is the essence of time. By gosh, do you get it? And we are living, functioning, acting in that. And therefore there is never a radical, psychological change. And therefore society can never be good. Goodness is not the opposite of bad. Right? If it is, it is not good. Love is not the opposite of hate. Right? If it is, it is still hate. Right?	ghen tị, - bạn hiểu mà - ngay! Để não phá vỡ khuôn mẫu, và có thể suy tư có thể hành động, nhìn, quan sát hoàn toàn khác. Không biết bạn có hiểu! Đây là thiền định. Bạn hiểu không? Không phải mọi giả hiệu được bàn tán. Thiền định, nghĩa là quan sát trí óc hoạt động cách nào không phải nhà tâm lý bảo bạn trí óc hoạt động cách nào, Freud và cả bọn còn lại, mà quan sát cho chính bạn bởi bạn trách nhiệm với chính mình, với thân thể, trí óc, suy nghĩ mình. Vậy bạn có thể quan sát cả tích chứa nhận thức không? Hiểu không? Tôi làm khó hiểu quá à? Tôi không biết, nói tôi nghe một tí chứ? Tôi làm khó hiểu quá ư? Nhận thức bạn đầy ắp vật mà suy nghĩ tạo ra. Phải không? Lo âu, niềm tin, thần thánh, đấng cứu thế, Krishna - kịp không? Mọi cái đó do suy nghĩ tạo ra. Vậy nhận thức bạn là nền tảng của thời gian. Kỳ lạ, bạn hiểu chứ? Và chúng ta sống, họat động, hành xử trong đó. Và vậy không hề có thay đổi tâm lý tận gốc. Nên xã hội không bao giờ tốt đẹp. Tốt không phải đối nghịch của xấu. Phải không? Nếu phải, thì không là tốt. Yêu thương không đối nghịch hận thù. Phải không? Nếu phải, nó vẫn là hận thù. Phải không? Vậy, mấy giờ rồi?
57:44	So sir, what time is it? 11:30, 12:30, we better stop here. We'll continue tomorrow, if you all want to come.	11h30, 12h30, nên dừng ở đây. Mai chúng ta sẽ tiếp, nếu bạn muốn đến.