Krishnamurti - Suy nghĩ về mình suốt ngày

Krishnamurti Subtitles

RV85DS2 - Suy nghĩ về mình suốt ngày
Buổi Thảo luận thứ nhì với Sinh viên
Rishi Valley, Ấn độ
11 tháng Mười hai 1985

0:44	Krishnamurti: Did you have a good sleep?	K: Các bạn ngủ ngon không?
0:47	Student: Yes, sir. K: Yes? Good. What are you going to do today?	S: Ngon ạ. K: Ngon à? Tốt. Hôm nay bạn sẽ làm gì?
0:53	S: Tell us something about yourself, sir.	S: Hãy kể chúng tôi nghe về ngài.
0:58	K: No, I asked you what you’re going to do today? School? Class?	K: Không, tôi hỏi bạn hôm nay sẽ làm gì? Đến trường? Lên lớp?
1:18	K: Do we all sit quietly, silently, or do we talk? Tell me. S: Talk.	K: Chúng ta cùng ngồi im lặng, hay nói chuyện? Nói xem. S: Nói chuyện.
1:29	K: You talk – then talk. What would you like to talk about? S: Talk about yourself, sir.	K: Nói chuyện - vậy thì nói. Bạn muốn nói về gì nào? S: Nói về ngài ạ.
1:43	S: Tell us something about yourself, sir.	S: Kể chúng tôi nghe đôi điều về ngài.
1:46	K: About myself? Not very interesting.	K: Về tôi à? Chẳng thú vị gì.
1:50	S: It doesn’t matter, sir.	S: Không sao đâu ạ.
1:56	S: He said it doesn’t matter.	S: Anh ấy nói không hề gì.
1:58	K: I know. It matters to me though. What would you like me to talk about myself?	K: Tôi biết. Nhưng là vấn đề với tôi. Bạn muốn tôi nói gì về mình đây?
2:14	S: The past. K: About my past? Are you really interested in it? S: Yes, sir.	S: Quá khứ. K: Về quá khứ tôi à? Bạn thực sự thích thú sao? S: Vâng ạ. (Cười)
2:26	K: Why? You tell me why, and then I’ll talk.	K: Tại sao? Bạn nói tại sao rồi tôi sẽ kể.
2:36	S: We’re curious. K: You’re curious, and then what? If you’re curious, and I fulfil your curiosity, alright, then what?	S: Chúng tôi tò mò. K: Bạn tò mò, và gì nữa? Nếu thế, tôi sẽ đáp ứng tò mò của bạn tốt thôi, rồi gì nữa?
2:57	S: Then we’ll be more curious.	S: Rồi chúng tôi sẽ tò mò hơn.
3:01	K: More curious, you’re quite right. So, where shall we start?	K: Tò mò hơn, đúng thế. Vậy chúng ta bắt đầu từ đâu?
3:10	S: From the beginning, sir. K: From the beginning. Look, most of my life I’ve forgotten. Really. Really, I’m serious, and I tell you most of my life is blank to me.	S: Thưa, từ bắt đầu. K: Từ bắt đầu. (Cười) Ồ, hầu như tôi quên hết đời mình. Thực đó. Thực sự, tôi nghiêm túc và sẽ kể bạn nghe cuộc đời hầu như quên hết ấy.
3:37	S: Sir, tell us what you remember.	S: Kể điều gì ngài còn nhớ.
3:43	K: Ah – that’s good. You’re rather persistent, aren’t you? I’ll tell you what I don’t remember, what people have told me. Right? I really don’t remember, but what people have told me, either they’re exaggerated – you understand? – or truthful, or imaginary. I think what they told me about myself – sounds very funny, doesn’t it? – is more or less accurate because a lot of people have told me the same thing during the years. Right? Lord, I don’t know where to begin. All right, sirs. You know, somebody gave me personally 5,000 acres in Holland – you understand? – 5,000 acres is an awful lot, and a castle, and we had gatherings there, 6,000 people at one time, lots of people; curiosity, like you. Curiosity to find out what K was talking about and so on. I was against – K was against organisations. You understand? You don’t understand, that’s all right. You know what organisations are? To run a school, like Rishi Valley, you must have organisation. You must turn up punctually at 1 o’clock, or half-past 12, when you have your lunch. Right? You must go to classes, you must do this, play from 4 o’clock and on. The whole of that requires organisation. But – lord, how did we get into this? Hey, come and help me, Radhikaji! And I was against so-called religious organisations. Right? Do you understand what that means? No. Do you want to know all this?	K: À - vậy tốt. Bạn khá cương quyết, phải không? (Cười) Tôi sẽ kể điều không nhớ điều người khác kể tôi nghe. Được chứ? Tôi thực sự không nhớ, nhưng mọi người kể rằng dù họ có phóng đại - bạn hiểu không? hay thực, hay tưởng tượng. Tôi nghĩ điều họ kể về tôi nghe rất tức cười, phải không cũng ít nhiều xác thực bởi vì mọi người đều kể như nhau qua nhiều năm. Phải không? Lạy trời, không biết bắt đầu từ đâu. Được rồi. Bạn biết ai đó cho cá nhân tôi 5.000 mẫu ở Hòa lan bạn biết không? - 5.000 mẫu là mảnh đất đáng nể và một lâu đài và chúng tôi họp nhau ở đó mỗi lần 6.000 người, nhiều người lắm; tò mò như bạn vậy. Tò mò xem coi K nói về cái gì và v.v.. Tôi chống lại - K chống lại, các tổ chức. Bạn hiểu không? Bạn không hiểu, không sao. Bạn biết tổ chức là gì không? Điều hành trường học, như Rishi Valley, bạn phải có tổ chức. Bạn phải có mặt đúng 1 giờ hay 12 giờ 30, khi bạn ăn trưa. Phải không? Bạn phải đến lớp, phải làm điều này, chơi đùa từ 4 giờ v.v.. Mọi việc ấy cần tổ chức. Nhưng - sao chúng ta lại vào đó chứ? Nào, đến giúp tôi, Radhikaji! Và tôi chống lại cái gọi là tổ chức tôn giáo. Phải không? Bạn có biết nghĩa là gì không? Không. Bạn muốn biết hết không?
6:50	S: Yes, sir.	S: Thưa vâng.
6:52	K: Really? S: Yes, sir.	K: Thực à? S: Thưa vâng.
6:55	K: Don’t say, ‘Yes, sir’, because...	K: Đừng nói, 'Thưa vâng', vì
6:59	S: In many of your books it mentions Krishnamurti’s teachings but then you always say that you are not a teacher, always this contradiction.	S: Trong nhiều sách vở nói về giáo lý Krishnamurti nhưng rồi ngài luôn nói ngài không phải là thầy luôn mâu thuẫn thế.
7:14	K: How does this come about that K’s teachings are religious teachings and K himself says he is not a teacher. Right? How do you account for it? How do you account for it? What do you say about it? I don’t have to account to you, sir. I was only joking, but I’m asking you how do you account for it? You asked that question, didn’t you? Yes, sir? What do you say about it? Is there a contradiction? Or K is not personally, as a body – you understand? – as an organism, as a physical entity, he is not important. What he says is important. Right? That’s all. Where are we? You’re interested in all this?	K: Làm sao việc ấy xảy ra rằng giáo lý K là giáo lý tôn giáo và chính K lại nói ông ta không phải là thầy. Phải không? Làm sao giải thích đây? Bạn giải thích thế nào? Bạn nói sao đây? Tôi không cần phải lý giải đâu. Chỉ đùa thôi, nhưng tôi hỏi bạn bạn giải thích thế nào? Bạn đặt câu hỏi ấy, phải không? Đúng không? Bạn nói gì nào? Có mâu thuẫn ư? Hay cá nhân K không như thân xác - bạn hiểu không? không như cơ thể, hiện thể vật lý, anh ta không quan trọng. Điều anh ta nói mới đáng kể. Phải không? Vậy đó. Đến đâu rồi? Các bạn thích chứ?
8:43	S: No, sir.	S: Không ạ.
8:45	K: Not specially. Right? I thought the older boys were going to sit here.	K: Không gì đặc biệt. Phải không? Tôi nghĩ các cậu lớn sẽ đến ngồi đây.
8:55	S: Sir, why is our mind always so cluttered with thought? And why are we all so concerned about ourselves?	S: Thưa, tại sao đầu óc chúng ta luôn quay cuồng với ý nghĩ? Và tại sao chúng ta quá quan tâm đến mình?
9:09	K: Why are we so concerned about ourselves and...	K: Tại sao chúng ta quá quan tâm đến mình và? S: Tại sao đầu óc luôn quay cuồng với ý nghĩ?
9:18	S: Why is our mind always so cluttered with thought?	K: Tại sao đầu óc luôn quay cuồng với ý nghĩ. Phải không?
9:27	K: Why is our mind so cluttered up with thought. Right? I’m not a brain specialist. You understand? I’ve talked to a great many scientists in America, in England, and so on, and I’ve also talked to a great many biologists and psychiatrists, and so on. Have you ever considered what our brain is? What’s your brain? Why is it so filled up with thought? Why is it that our brain is never quiet? Right? Why? I’m asking you. What’s the other question?	Tôi không phải chuyên gia trí não. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi nói chuyện với rất nhiều nhà khoa học ở Mỹ, ở Anh, và v.v.. và tôi cũng nói chuyện với nhiều nhà sinh vật học và chuyên gia tâm thần, v.v.. Bạn có xem coi trí óc là gì chưa? Trí óc là gì? Tại sao nó đầy nghẹt ý nghĩ? Tại sao trí óc không bao giờ yên lặng? Phải không? Tại sao? Tôi hỏi bạn đó. Câu hỏi kia hỏi gì?
10:43	S: Why are we always so concerned...	S: Tại sao chúng ta quá quan tâm
10:45	K: Why are we so concerned about ourselves? Go on, you answer me. Why are you concerned about yourself all the time, most of the time?	K: Tại sao chúng ta quá quan tâm đến mình. Tiếp tục, trả lời đi. Tại sao bạn luôn quan tâm đến mình, hầu như luôn luôn?
11:01	S: We want the best for yourself.	S: Chúng tôi muốn điều tốt nhất.
11:06	K: What do you call best?	K: Bạn nói tốt nhất là gì?
11:09	S: We want to have all the privileges.	S: Chúng tôi muốn có mọi đặc quyền.
11:11	K: You want to have all the privileges. What do you mean by that? What do you mean by privileges?	K: Bạn muốn có mọi đặc quyền. Thế nghĩa là sao? Ý bạn đặc quyền là gì?
11:23	S: We want to have all the comfort.	S: Chúng tôi muốn có mọi tiện lợi.
11:30	K: You want all the comfort, all the land.	K: Bạn muốn có mọi tiện lợi, hết đất đai.
11:35	S: The advantages.	S: Thuận lợi.
11:37	K: All the advantages, all the best things of the world. Right? Are we answering your question? No. You understand what that girl asked? She wanted to know why we are concerned about ourselves so much. Have you answered that question?	K: Mọi thuận lợi, mọi điều tốt nhất của thế gian. Phải không? Chúng tôi trả lời câu hỏi bạn à? Không. Bạn hiểu cô ấy hỏi gì không? Cô ta muốn biết tại sao chúng ta quá quan tâm về mình. Bạn trả lời chưa? S: Ta quan tâm về mình bởi vì
12:10	S: You are concerned about yourself because... I mean, you always think about yourself.	Ý tôi là ta luôn nghĩ về mình vì ta muốn điều gì đó cho mình
12:15	K: Yes. I know that. Why are you so concerned about yourself? Everybody is – it’s not something unusual. There are very rare people who are not concerned about themselves – very rare. So, why are you concerned about yourself?	K: Phải. Tôi biết thế. Tại sao bạn quan tâm về mình? Mọi người mà - đâu phải bất thường. Rất ít người lại không quan tâm về họ - hiếm lắm. Vậy, tại sao bạn quan tâm về mình?
12:40	S: Sir, because everything you do is usually circled around you.	S: Thưa, vì mọi việc ta làm thường là xung quanh mình.
12:47	K: Everything you do is around you.	K: Mọi việc bạn làm đều ở xung quanh.
12:52	S: It concerns you.	S: Nó liên quan đến ta.
12:55	S: Speak louder.	S: Nói lớn lên.
12:57	S: Sir, everything you do ultimately concerns you.	S: Mọi việc làm đều liên quan mật thiết đến mình.
13:01	K: Everything you do ultimately concerns you. Right? What is you? Who are you?	K: Mọi việc làm đều liên quan mật thiết với bạn. Phải không? Bạn là gì? Bạn là ai?
13:17	S: I am the body. K: Yes – what are you? The body, blonde hair, purple eyes, dark skin, light skin, your name might be, what? Mr Rao or Mrs Rao, or Miss Rao, I don’t know, whatever your name, that’s what you are, aren’t you? Your face, your body and beyond that, what are you? Are you your BA’s and MA’s? You’re all going to pass exams, aren’t you? Yes? I don’t know why, but you are going to pass exams like a lot of monkeys. And that’s what you are – BA, MA, PhD or a good lawyer, a good engineer, scientist – that’s what you are. All that is you, isn’t it? BA, MA, PhD, MAD. Right? All that’s what you are. Aren’t you? No? What are you then? You marry somebody, and you’re called Mrs after that. Right? Or Miss, or whatever you like to call yourself. So what are you? Why are you so concerned about yourself? I know you want all the advantages, all the privileges, all the earth, but who is ‘I’ that wants all this?	S: Là một cơ thể. K: Vâng - bạn là gì? Cơ thể, tóc vàng, mắt tía da ngăm, da sáng, tên bạn có thể là, gì nào? Ông Rao hay bà Rao, hay cô Rao tôi không biết, dù bạn tên gì đó là bạn, phải không? Nét mặt, thân thể và ngoài đó ra, bạn là gì? Bạn là BA hay MA? Các bạn đều sẽ đi thi, phải không? Phải không? Tôi không biết tại sao, nhưng bạn sẽ thi cử như đám khỉ kia. Và đó là bạn: BA, MA, hay PhD hay là luật sư giỏi, kỹ sư giỏi, nhà khoa học, bạn đó. Mọi cái đó là bạn, phải không? BA, MA, PhD, MAD. (Cười) Phải không? Mọi cái đó là bạn. Phải không nào? Không à? Vậy bạn là gì? Bạn kết hôn với ai đó và được gọi là bà, rồi thì Phải không? - hay cô, hay gì gì bạn thích. Vậy bạn là gì? Tại sao bạn quá quan tâm về mình? Tôi biết bạn muốn mọi thuận lợi, đặc quyền, cả trái đất nhưng ai là 'tôi' muốn mọi cái đó?
15:32	S: Your mind.	S: Tâm trí. K: Tâm trí, từ 'tâm trí' với bạn thực sự nghĩa gì?
15:35	K: What do you mean by the mind? Don’t just throw out words. What do you mean by the mind?	Đừng chỉ tuôn từ ngữ ra. Ý bạn tâm trí là gì?
15:45	S: Your self, sir. Your soul. Our soul, sir.	S: Cái ngã. Linh hồn. Linh hồn ạ.
15:50	K: Your soul.	K: Linh hồn. S: Có thể hiểu tâm trí là cái gì đó bảo ta, xui ta làm gì
15:54	S: You can see the mind is something that tells you, tells you what to do. I mean, there’s this thing called mind in you that keeps telling you, do this, do that, don’t do this.	Tôi cho cái đó gọi là tâm trí nó bảo ta làm này, làm kia, đừng làm nọ.
16:04	K: So what are you trying to say?	K: Bạn đang cố nói điều gì?
16:07	S: I want to know what the mind is.	S: Tôi muốn biết tâm trí là gì.
16:08	K: You want to know what the mind is. Before you go in to enquire what the mind is, what is the brain, what’s your brain like? What, sir?	K: Bạn muốn biết tâm trí là gì. Trước khi đi vào tìm hiểu tâm trí là gì trí óc là gì, trí óc bạn giống gì nào?
16:25	S: It helps you to think.	S: Nó giúp ta suy nghĩ.
16:27	S: Your brain helps you to think, sir.	S: Trí óc giúp ta suy nghĩ ạ.
16:31	K: Your brain helps you to think. Right? It’s getting rather complex, isn’t it? What do you mean by thinking? You are all thinking, aren’t you? Naturally. What do you mean by thinking?	K: Trí óc giúp bạn suy nghĩ. Phải không? Nó khá là phức tạp, phải không? Ý bạn suy nghĩ là gì? Các bạn đều suy nghĩ, phải không? Tự nhiên thôi. Ý bạn suy nghĩ là gì?
16:55	S: The way you feel, your ideas and opinions.	S: Cách ta cảm nhận, ý kiến và quan niệm.
16:58	K: No, I said what do you mean by thinking.	K: Không, tôi hỏi bạn hiểu suy nghĩ là gì.
17:04	S: To find out.	S: Tìm hiểu.
17:11	K: Thinking, not finding out. You understand the difference between the two? I think this morning I’ll go for a walk. I think. You understand? Now what do you mean by thinking?	K: Suy nghĩ, không phải tìm hiểu. Bạn biết hai cái khác nhau chứ? Tôi nghĩ sáng nay tôi sẽ đi bộ. Tôi suy nghĩ. Bạn hiểu không? Giờ thì bạn hiểu suy nghĩ là gì?
17:32	S: It is the power to decide.	S: Sức mạnh để quyết định.
17:40	K: You’re not answering my question, old boy. I’m asking you, if you’ll kindly listen, what do you mean by thinking, not about something, not ask you to think about that, what do you mean by thinking? Perhaps this is too complex. You go to a class, there the educator tells you, ‘Now let’s study mathematics’. Probably you don’t like that subject, mind you, you have to study it. Now, you are learning from that book and what the professor, your educator tells you, so you memorise. Right? Am I saying something not right? You memorise, that is, you repeat over and over and over again till it becomes part of your brain. Right? So, you memorise, don’t you? You don’t know about physics, but you learn about it, that is, you memorise. You memorise your name. Right? Because you have repeated very, very, very often – my name is Smith, or Mr Rao, or Mr K. Right? So, our learning is memorising. Right? Are you... Do you agree to this? Our learning in a school, in a college, in a university is all the time memorising. I won’t go into the whole subject of it because it is very complex, I won’t put you through that. Now, you memorise in order to act skilfully. Right? If you’re a lawyer, you memorise all the previous incidents, judgements, and so on, and then you become a lawyer, and so on. A doctor, he must practise ten years, learn, then become an internee, and so on, so on. It may take 15 years to be a really first-class doctor, or a surgeon, or a scientist, and so on. So, what is happening to your brain? Tell me, don’t go to sleep. What is happening to your brain during those ten years or during those five years?	K: Anh bạn không trả lời câu tôi hỏi. Tôi hỏi, nếu bạn vui lòng lắng nghe bạn hiểu suy nghĩ là gì, không phải về điều gì không bảo bạn nghĩ về điều đó, bạn hiểu suy nghĩ là gì? Có lẽ điều này quá phức tạp. Bạn đến lớp, thầy cô giáo bảo bạn nào, hãy học toán. Có thể bạn không thích môn ấy nhớ kỹ đó, bạn phải học. Bạn học từ sách vở và những gì thầy cô giáo nói rồi bạn ghi nhớ. Phải không? Tôi nói điều gì không đúng à? Bạn ghi nhớ, nghĩa là bạn lặp đi lặp lại mãi đến lúc nó là một phần trí óc bạn Phải không? Vậy là, bạn ghi nhớ, phải không? Bạn không biết về vật lý, nhưng bạn học nó tức là, bạn ghi nhớ. Bạn ghi nhớ tên mình. Phải không? Bởi vì bạn lặp đi lặp lại rất thường xuyên tên tôi là Smith, hay ông Rao, hay ông K. Phải không? Vậy cái học chúng ta là ghi nhớ. Phải không? Bạn bạn đồng ý chứ? Học ở trường tiểu học, trung học, đại học là luôn luôn ghi nhớ. Tôi sẽ không đào sâu cả chủ đề này vì nó quá phức tạp, tôi không bắt bạn làm thế. Hiện giờ, bạn ghi nhớ để hành động khéo léo. Phải không? Nếu là luật sư, bạn ghi nhớ mọi tình tiết trước đó, phán quyết, v.v.. và rồi bạn thành luật sư, và v.v.. Bác sĩ, phải thực hành mười năm, học rồi trở thành bác sĩ thực tập, v.v.. Có lẽ mất 15 năm để thành bác sĩ giỏi thực sự hay nhà phẫu thuật, hay nhà khoa học, v.v.. Vậy điều gì xảy ra cho trí óc bạn? Nói xem, đừng đi ngủ nhé. Điều gì xảy đến cho trí óc bạn trong suốt mười năm hay năm năm ấy?
21:05	S: Your brain is getting filled up.	S: Trí óc bị đầy ắp.
21:08	K: Filled. Filled with what?	K: Đầy ắp. Đầy cái gì?
21:10	S: With information, sir. With information about what you are doing.	S: Đầy thông tin ạ. Đầy thông tin về việc ta đang làm.
21:15	K: Yes, your brain is being filled with a lot of information. Right?	K: Phải, trí óc bạn đầy ắp biết bao là thông tin. Phải không?
21:23	S: And knowledge. K: And knowledge. What do you mean by that word ‘knowledge’?	S: Và kiến thức. K: Và kiến thức. Bạn hiểu từ 'kiến thức' nghĩa là gì?
21:30	S: Information about the topic.	S: Thông tin về chủ đề.
21:34	K: Yes, information about a certain topic, a certain subject, and your brain is filled with that. Right? I am a PhD, I know how... etc., etc. Right? Right, sir? Are you bored? It’s all right, be bored, go to sleep. I don’t mind, it’s a nice morning – why shouldn’t you go to sleep? So, your brain contains all that you have learned. Right? Your name, your face, your father, your mother, it’s a process of not only recognition, but also accumulation. Right? You understand my English? It is a process of gathering and spending what you have gathered. That’s you have gathered Sanskrit and you speak that, and so on. So, your brain is full of memories. Right? You know where you live, you know your father’s name, your mother’s name, you know your brother, so it’s filled with information as knowledge. Right? And you use that knowledge skilfully, or not skilfully, you can be a first-class engineer or a rather dull engineer, and so on. Indian administrative – what is it?	K: Vâng, thông tin về chủ đề nào đó đề tài nào đó, và trí óc bạn đầy ắp chúng. Phải không? Tôi là PhD, tôi biết v.v.., v.v.. Phải không? Đúng không? Bạn chán à? Được rồi, chán thì đi ngủ. Tôi không sao, buổi sáng đẹp quá - tại sao bạn lại đi ngủ? Vậy trí óc bạn chứa mọi thứ bạn đã học. Phải không? Tên mình, gương mặt mình, cha, mẹ tiến trình ấy không chỉ là nhận biết mà cả tích chứa. Phải không? Bạn hiểu tiếng Anh tôi chứ? Đó là tiến trình thu gom và sử dụng điều gì bạn đã thu gom. Nghĩa là bạn thu gom Phạn ngữ rồi nói ra, v.v.. Vậy trí óc bạn đầy ký ức. Phải không? Bạn biết nơi mình sống biết cha mình tên gì, mẹ mình tên gì biết anh nè em nè, vậy là đầy thông tin như là kiến thức. Phải không? Và bạn dùng kiến thức ấy khéo hay vụng bạn có thể là kỹ sư giỏi nhất, hay kỹ sư dở ẹc, và v.v.. hội đồng chính phủ Ấn
23:44	S: Service.	S: Nhân viên.
23:47	K: Yes, and so on, so on, so on. Right? So, you are always living within a circle, circle of what you have learned, what you have acquired as information, which becomes knowledge. So your brain contains all that you have acquired, all that you have learned, all that you have experienced. So that is full of knowledge, absurdities, imaginations, illusions, and this whole thing is me. Right? I may think I’m a great man – that’s me. I may sit very quietly – and that’s me. So, whatever I think and do is out of experience, knowledge. Right? And I can imagine I’m God, or I can imagine I’m a great painter, when I’m not, or when I’m... you know, and all that. Or, I can have fantasies that I’m the emperor of India. Right? I can have various fantasies, imaginations, ideas, illusions, and so on. I am all that – fear, pain, suffering, and so on. I am the... – all that accumulation, I am. Right? Are you clear? Don’t agree with me, that’s the last thing you should do. But find out if what we are saying is true or false. I can imagine there is God in me. But that may not be true. Right? So, I am this whole bundle of two million years gathered as me. Right? And I become very important.	K: Vâng, và v.v.., v.v.. Đúng không? Vậy bạn luôn sống trong vòng tròn vòng vây của điều bạn học điều bạn thu được như thông tin, rồi nó thành kiến thức. Vậy trí óc bạn chứa mọi điều bạn thu được mọi cái bạn học, bạn kinh nghiệm. Thế là nó đầy kiến thức: những ngớ ngẩn, tưởng tượng, ảo tưởng và mọi cái đó là tôi. Phải không? Tôi có thể nghĩ mình vĩ đại, tôi đó tôi có thể ngồi lặng im, đó là tôi. Vậy, điều gì tôi nghĩ hay làm cũng từ kinh nghiệm, kiến thức. Phải không? Và tôi có thể tưởng mình là Thượng đế hay có thể tưởng mình là họa sĩ lớn, nhưng không phải hay khi tôibạn biết đó, mọi thứ. Hay tôi có thể tưởng tượng mình là vua Ấn độ. Phải không? Có thể tôi có nhiều tưởng tượng kỳ lạ ý niệm, ảo tưởng, v.v.. Tôi là mọi cái đó - sợ hãi, khổ đau, v.v.. Tôi là - mọi thứ tích chứa đó. Phải không? Bạn rõ chứ, đừng đồng ý với tôi đó là điều cuối cùng bạn nên làm. Nhưng hãy tìm xem điều đang nói là đúng hay sai. Tôi có thể tưởng tượng Thượng đế trong tôi. Nhưng điều đó có thể không đúng. Phải không? Vậy tôi là cả gói của hai triệu năm ấy tụ họp thành. Phải không? Và tôi trở nên rất quan trọng.
26:34	S: Why, sir?	S: Tại sao ạ?
26:35	K: Because I am two million years old, I’ve learnt so much. That poor chap wandering up there in the garden doesn’t know much, but you know a great deal. You respect those people who have a great deal of knowledge and you despise those people who are there. Right? So, when you ask, ‘Why am I thinking about myself all day long?’ – because you have been trained that way, you have been conditioned that way. Society helps you to think about yourself, because if you didn’t, you might not get a job. So all the people help each other to think about themselves. Right? You are a Muslim, and you think about Allah. So, you build up all kinds of imaginary superstitious, illusory stuff, called Maya. Right? And there are people who say, ‘I must get away from all this, get away from myself’. Right? ‘I must forget myself, I must abandon myself, I must become something totally different from what I am’. But it is the same circle repeated over and over again because I’m thinking about myself. ‘I must meditate for two hours’, which is, I’m thinking about myself, and so on, so on. And your next question was – what was it?	K: Bởi vì tôi hai triệu tuổi tôi đã học quá nhiều. Anh bạn tội nghiệp kia lang thang trong vườn chẳng biết gì nhiều, tôi thì biết nhiều quá. Bạn kính trọng những người có nhiều kiến thức và xem nhẹ những người ngoài kia. Phải không? Vậy khi bạn hỏi, tại sao tôi nghĩ về mình suốt ngày bởi vì bạn đã được dạy thế bạn đã được qui định thế. Xã hội giúp bạn nghĩ về mình bởi vì nếu không thế bạn có thể mất việc. Vậy là mọi người giúp nhau nghĩ về mình. Phải không? Bạn theo đạo Hồi, và bạn nghĩ về Allah. Vậy là bạn xây đắp mọi thứ tưởng tượng mê tín dị đoan, ảo giác, gọi là Maya. Phải không? Và có những người nói 'Tôi phải thoát khỏi mọi cái này, phải rời chính tôi'. Phải không? 'Tôi phải quên mình, phải lìa bỏ mình tôi phải thành cái gì đó hoàn toàn khác tôi hiện giờ'. Nhưng đó vẫn là cái vòng lẩn quẩn lặp đi lặp lại bởi vì tôi nghĩ về mình. 'Tôi phải thiền định hai giờ' nghĩa là, tôi nghĩ về mình, và v.v.., v.v.. Và câu hỏi kế của bạn là - là gì?
28:52	S: Why is the mind always cluttered with thought?	S: Tại sao trí óc luôn bề bộn với ý nghĩ?
28:59	K: Why is the brain so occupied with thought? I explained just now, I see this thing in front of me – right? – and I call it microphone. Right? But the word ‘microphone’ is not that. I don’t know if you see that. That’s very important to see in life – very important – that the word is not the thing. You understand what I am saying? Or you are all nuts? It’s very important to learn that the word is not the thing. The door, the word ‘door’, is not the actual door.	K: Tại sao trí óc quá bận rộn với ý nghĩ? Tôi vừa giải thích, tôi thấy vật này trước mặt phải không? - và tôi gọi nó là micro. Phải không? Nhưng từ 'micro' không phải là nó. Bạn có thấy thế không? Thấy thế trong đời rất quan trọng rất quan trọng - rằng từ ngữ không phải sự vật. Bạn hiểu lời tôi chứ? Hay các bạn điên hết? Vô cùng quan trọng khi biết rằng từ ngữ không phải là sự vật: cánh cửa, từ cửa, không phải là cánh cửa thực.
30:00	S: Sir, why do you say that? K: What?	S: Tại sao ngài nói thế? K: Gì nào?
30:03	S: That the door is not the door.	S: Rằng cửa không phải là cửa.
30:06	K: Now, you didn’t listen. The word is different from the door. Is this too difficult? Look, my name is K. Right? But K is different from the actual. This becomes too difficult, does it?	K: Ồ, bạn không lắng nghe. Từ ngữ khác với cánh cửa. Quá khó sao? Nào, tên tôi là K. Phải không? Nhưng K khác với thực tế. Điều này quá khó, phải không?
30:35	S: Are you trying to say... K: Now just a minute. Rishi Valley, the words ‘Rishi Valley’ is not the actual. Is this difficult? Why is the girl not... Why aren’t you... Why don’t you understand it? The word is not the actual. You understand? You, your name is something. Right? That name is not you.	S: Có phải ngài cố gắng nói K: Khoan đã. Rishi Valley, từ 'Rishi Valley', không là cái đó. Khó lắm à? Tại sao cô gái không chắc chắn Tại sao bạn không hiểu? Từ ngữ không phải cái thực. Bạn hiểu không? Bạn, tên bạn là gì đó. Phải không? Tên ấy không phải là bạn.
31:21	S: What importance does that have?	S: Cái đó có gì quan trọng?
31:27	K: Tremendous importance. The word is never the thing. I can paint a picture of the Himalayas, but the picture is not the actual. Right? I can describe New York, but New York is not what I describe. I can write about the Gita, or the Bible, or whatever it is, but what I write about is not the actual. I wish you’d get this deep into your brain because it’ll help you then to deal with things actually. I have pain in my leg – suppose – that pain is not the word ‘pain’. Do you see it? S: I think so.	K: Quan trọng phi thường. Từ ngữ không phải sự vật. Tôi có thể vẽ bức hình Hy mã lạp sơn nhưng hình ảnh không phải sự thực. Phải không? Tôi có thể diễn tả New York nhưng New York không phải điều diễn tả. Tôi có thể viết về Gita, hay Kinh thánh, hay gì gì nhưng điều tôi viết không phải cái thực. Tôi muốn bạn nắm thật vững điều này bởi vì nó sẽ giúp bạn cư xử mọi việc rất thực tế. Tôi đau chân - ví dụ thế cái đau ấy không phải từ 'đau'. Bạn hiểu chứ? S: Chắc vậy.
32:47	K: I get hurt, a thorn, the pain, the word ‘pain’ is different from the actual thorn and pain. If you once grasp this fact that the symbol is not the real. Right? Go to a temple, and there is some monstrous figure there and that figure is the symbol of something else. But you worship that symbol. Go to a church, and there is the cross, that’s a symbol of something else, but you worship that cross. Do you understand all this?	K: Tôi bị thương, cây gai, cái đau từ 'đau' khác với cây gai và cái đau thực. Nếu một lần bạn nắm được thực tế là biểu tượng không phải sự thực. Phải không? Vào đền chùa, có vài hình tượng kỳ quái ở đó và hình tượng ấy là biểu tượng cái gì khác. Nhưng bạn tôn thờ biểu tượng ấy. Vào nhà thờ, và có thánh giá nó biểu tượng cái gì khác, nhưng bạn tôn thờ thánh giá. Bạn hiểu cả chứ?
33:44	S: Sir, the symbol cannot describe the real thing.	S: Thưa, biểu tượng không thể diễn tả sự thực.
33:47	K: Yes, the symbol cannot describe. The symbol is not the actual – right? – and so on.	K: Vâng, biểu tượng không thể diễn tả. Biểu tượng không phải cái thực - phải không? - v.v..
33:56	S: It just helps you identify with the real thing. It brings to your mind a picture of the real thing. It brings to your mind an idea of the real thing.	S: Nó chỉ giúp ta nhận ra cái thực. Nó đem đến trí óc ta hình ảnh về cái thực. Nó mang đến trí óc ta ý niệm về cái thực.
34:09	K: Does it? Is the idea a fact? The idea I’m going to climb the Himalayas. The idea is not fact, I’m not climbing it.	K: Phải không? Ý niệm có phải là thực tế? Ý niệm tôi sẽ leo lên Hy mã lạp sơn. Ý niệm không phải thực tế, tôi không leo núi.
34:25	S: No, but if you see a picture of the Himalayas	S: Không, nhưng nếu ngài xem ảnh Hy mã lạp sơn
34:27	K: Ah, wait, that again is a symbol.	K: À, nhưng đó vẫn là biểu tượng.
34:29	S: Yes, it makes you realise what the Himalayas look like.	S: Vâng, nó giúp ngài xem coi Hy mã lạp sơn thế nào.
34:32	K: Yes, but you haven’t seen the Himalayas. So, the seeing is different from the picture. Right? The actual seeing, the Himalayan mountains, their valleys, the blue lights of a morning on there and the snow, is quite different from the picture. But we worship the picture. I don’t know if you’re following all this. So, your question is, why do we think about ourselves all the time? And the other question is, why are our brains filled with thought? Now you ask the older people what they think of it. There they are, sitting in chairs. I’ll wait, sir, till you ask.	K: Nhưng bạn chưa thấy Hy mã lạp sơn. Thế nên cái thấy khác với bức ảnh. Phải không? Cái thấy thực, đỉnh Hy mã lạp sơn thung lũng, ánh sáng buổi sớm trong xanh trên đó và tuyết, hoàn toàn khác với bức ảnh. Nhưng chúng ta tôn thờ bức ảnh. Không biết bạn theo kịp không? Câu hỏi bạn là, tại sao chúng ta luôn nghĩ về mình? Và câu hỏi kia là, tại sao trí óc ta đầy ắp ý nghĩ? Giờ bạn hỏi người lớn xem họ nghĩ việc ấy thế nào? Họ đàng kia, ngồi trên ghế. Tôi sẽ chờ đến khi bạn hỏi. S: Thưa.
35:53	S: Sir, our brain is like a box, sir, when we’re young the box is empty, so there are hardly any thoughts, when you grow up the box starts getting filled.	Trí óc chúng ta như cái hộp, khi còn trẻ hộp rỗng, thế nên có ít ý nghĩ khi lớn lên, hộp bắt đầu đầy dần.
36:02	K: That’s right. You are like an empty bottle, you are saying, and as you grow up that bottle gets filled. Filled with what?	K: Đúng thế. Bạn giống như cái chai rỗng, bạn nói và khi bạn lớn lên cái chai đầy. Đầy cái gì?
36:14	S: Thoughts.	S: Ý nghĩ.
36:16	K: With dirty water, clean water?	K: Với nước đục, nước trong?
36:21	S: Both. K: Both, that’s right. Filled with dirty water, and clean water. Right? You can’t mix clean water with the dirty water, then the clean water becomes dirty. That’s what you are doing. So, you asked me to talk about myself. I have. If you could learn, as you learn mathematics, whether your mind can ever be quiet, your brain. Absolutely quiet.	S: Cả hai. K: Cả hai, đúng thế. Đầy nước đục và nước trong. Phải không? Bạn không thể hòa nước đục với nước trong thế nước trong sẽ thành đục. Bạn đang làm thế đó. Nên bạn muốn tôi nói về mình. Tôi đã nói. Nếu bạn có thể học, như học toán nếu tâm trí bạn có thể lặng yên. Tuyệt đối lặng yên.
37:18	S: Then how do you get pure water, sir?	S: Rồi làm thế nào được nước trong?
37:24	K: You don’t. He asked, how do you get pure water. Life doesn’t give you pure water, it gives you dirty water because you have pain, you have sorrow, you have grief, you’re ambitious, you want to be something or other. That’s all dirty water.	K: Không đâu. Anh ta hỏi, làm sao có nước trong? Cuộc sống không cho bạn nước trong, chỉ cho nước đục bởi thế bạn đau, bạn khổ, bạn thống thiết bạn tham vọng, bạn muốn là cái này hay cái kia. Tất cả đó là nước đục.
37:46	S: But sometimes you get happiness, don’t you?	S: Nhưng đôi khi ta được hạnh phúc, phải không?
37:53	K: Yes, sometimes you get happiness. Now what do you mean by that word ‘happiness’?	K: Phải, đôi khi bạn hạnh phúc. Ý bạn từ 'hạnh phúc' là gì?
38:00	S: When my wish is fulfilled.	S: Khi ước vọng được thỏa mãn.
38:02	K: Yes, when your wishes are fulfilled. Right? I want to live comfortably in a big house with lots of servants, and if you can wish, if those wishes can be fulfilled, you are happy. Is that it? Suppose they are not fulfilled, you are sad – right? you’re unhappy, you’re depressed. So what is the difference between happiness and depression? It’s too difficult for you, don’t bother. You understand, sirs, ladies, to me, religious organisations are silly. You understand? Going to church, going to temples, mosques, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. What happens when you repeat?	K: Vâng, khi ước vọng bạn được thỏa mãn. Phải không? Tôi muốn sống tiện nghi trong ngôi nhà lớn với nhiều người phục vụ và nếu có thể muốn, nếu muốn là được, bạn hạnh phúc. Phải không? Nếu không được thỏa mãn, bạn buồn - phải không? bạn không hạnh phúc, bạn chán nản. Vậy điều gì khác nhau giữa hạnh phúc và chán nản? Với bạn là quá khó, đừng bận tâm. Các bạn biết đó, với tôi, tổ chức tôn giáo là ngốc nghếch. Bạn hiểu chứ? Đến nhà thờ, đền chùa, miếu mạo lặp đi lặp lại, lặp đi lặp lại. Điều gì xảy ra khi bạn lặp lại?
39:18	S: You don’t find anything new, sir.	S: Không hiểu được cái mới.
39:20	K: Therefore will you stop repeating?	K: Vậy bạn sẽ ngừng lặp lại chứ?
39:25	S: How do you stop that, sir?	S: Làm sao dừng ạ?
39:27	K: Don’t ask me how I stop. Will you stop? You stop scratching your head. I mean, you start scratching, that becomes a habit. Right? And you can stop it, can’t you, by saying, ‘I won’t do it’. Right? Right? Will you do that? Don’t look at somebody else.	K: Đừng hỏi tôi làm sao dừng, bạn dừng chứ? Bạn dừng gãi đầu. Ý tôi là bạn cứ gãi đầu, nó thành thói quen. Phải không? Và bạn có thể dừng, phải không, chỉ nói, thì sẽ không dừng. Phải không? Bạn sẽ làm thế chứ? Đừng nhìn người khác.
39:57	S: It’s difficult, sir.	S: Khó quá ạ.
39:59	K: That’s right, it’s difficult. So, you’d rather keep on scratching. Right?	K: Đúng rồi, khó lắm. Vậy tốt hơn bạn cứ gãi đầu. Phải không?
40:09	S: Sir, can we talk about the existence of god?	S: Mình có thể bàn về sự hiện diện của thượng đế?
40:18	K: Jesus! How do you know if god exists? S: That’s what I want to ask.	K: Chúa ơi! Sao bạn biết có thượng đế? S: Tôi muốn hỏi ngài thế.
40:27	K: You want to ask is there god. Right?	K: Bạn muốn hỏi có thượng đế không? Phải không?
40:34	S: If there is, where is he, and why do we believe in him?	S: Nếu có, ông ta ở đâu, và tại sao chúng ta tin?
40:38	K: Where is he, and why do we bother about it?	K: Ông ta ở đâu, và tại sao chúng ta lại bận tâm.
40:44	S: We want to be secure. K: Yes, sir. First let me answer her question, – will you? – do you mind? Is there god? Right? What do you think?	S: Chúng ta muốn an toàn. K: Vâng. Trước hết để tôi trả lời câu hỏi cô ấy - được chứ? Có thượng đế không? Phải không? Bạn nghĩ sao?
41:05	S: I think there might be, but I don’t believe in god.	S: Tôi nghĩ có lẽ có, nhưng tôi không tin thượng đế.
41:08	K: Why, why don’t you believe?	K: Tại sao, tại sao bạn không tin?
41:11	S: Because I have never seen, I have just heard about god.	S: Bởi vì tôi chưa hề thấy, chỉ nghe nói thôi.
41:17	K: Go on, tell me.	K: Tiếp tục nói đi.
41:21	S: It seems to me that god is something like a pillar of support.	S: Với tôi có vẻ thượng đế giống như cột chống.
41:25	K: What, financial support?	K: Gì, chống đỡ tài chánh?
41:28	S: No, a pillar of support. K: You are quite right. Yes, sir, yes, sir, but I said financial support was pretty good. That is, you rely, or you seek god when you are depressed, when you are unhappy, when you want something, when you pray. Right? Now, how do you find out if there is god, or not?	S: Không, trụ chống đỡ. K: Phải rồi. Vâng, vâng, nhưng nói chống đỡ tài chánh tốt hơn. Nghĩa là, bạn dựa vào, hay tìm thượng đế khi chán nản khi bạn không hạnh phúc, khi muốn gì đó, khi cầu nguyện. Phải không? Làm sao bạn tìm xem có thượng đế hay không?
42:08	S: When you actually see him, the person. When you actually see him. K: Do you actually see him?	S: Khi thực sự nhìn thấy. Khi thực sự nhìn thấy. K: Bạn thực sự thấy chưa?
42:15	S: No, you find more about him when you see him. You know he exists.	S: Chưa, sẽ tìm hiểu thêm về ông ta khi thấy mặt. Ngài biết có mà.
42:21	K: Do you know the story of two Americans going to heaven? And they wander about in heaven, all over the place for weeks and months, and there is a sign says ‘God’. And they go up that path, and one of them says, ‘That’s too much climb, you go up there and tell me all about it’. So he goes up there and comes rushing back, ‘My god, it’s a woman!’ Right? Now, how do you know there is god? Because a 100 people say so?	K: Bạn biết câu chuyện hai người Mỹ lên thiên đàng chứ? Và họ lang thang trên thiên đàng, khắp mọi nơi hàng tuần, hàng tháng, và có biển đề 'Thượng đế'. Và họ đi lên đường ấy, và một người nói 'Leo vậy nhiều lắm, anh lên đó rồi nói lại tôi nghe'. Vậy là anh ta lên đó rồi vội vã quay lại: 'Thượng đế là phụ nữ!' (Cười) Phải không? Làm sao bạn biết có thượng đế? Vì 100 người nói thế sao?
43:16	S: Just because a 100 people say that there is god, doesn’t mean a thing. For all you know they might have heard from somebody else.	S: Chỉ vì 100 người nói có thượng đế, không có nghĩa là Ngài biết đó, có thể tất cả họ nghe người khác nói.
43:28	K: Quite right. So how do you know there is god?	K: Đúng thế. Vậy làm sao bạn biết có thượng đế?
43:33	S: When you see him. K: Where do you see him?	S: Khi thấy ông ta. K: Bạn thấy ông ta ở đâu?
43:38	S: Then who created the world?	S: Vậy ai tạo ra thế giới?
43:43	K: He asks, if god didn’t create the world... What do you mean by the world? You, the trees, the fishes, the water, the frogs, the elephants, the lion, the...	K: Anh ta hỏi, nếu thượng đế không tạo ra thế giới bạn hiểu thế giới là gì? Bạn, cây cối, cá, nước, ếch nhái voi, sư tử,
43:58	S: All matter. K: All matter. That is, all the rocks, the trees, the human beings, the valleys, the rivers, everything is created, you think, by god.	S: Mọi vật. K: Mọi vật. Nghĩa là, đất đá, cây cối, con người thung lũng, sông ngòi, bạn nghĩ mọi vật do thượng đế tạo ra.
44:14	S: If it’s not god, who else could it be?	S: Nếu không phải thượng đế thì là ai khác?
44:17	K: If it’s not god, he asks, who else could be.	K: Anh ta hỏi, nếu không phải thượng đế thì là ai khác?
44:21	S: It could be a form of energy or something.	S: Có thể là một dạng năng lượng hay gì đó.
44:23	K: What? S: It could be some form of energy.	K: Gì? S: Có thể là một dạng năng lượng.
44:27	K: How do you know?	K: Sao bạn biết?
44:28	S: I’m just guessing. K: Guessing. That’s what they’re all doing. And so somebody guesses much more seriously, and says, ‘There is’. and then you accept it. Suppose you don’t accept your tradition that there is god, then what will you do, how will you find out? That’s much more important than believing. Right? Do you agree to that, it’s much more important to find out rather than believing. Right? Now, will you stop believing?	S: Tôi chỉ đoán thôi. K: Đoán. Họ đang làm thế đó. (Cười) Và ai đó đoán nghiêm chỉnh hơn, và nói, 'Có' và rồi bạn chấp nhận. Giả sử bạn không chấp nhận truyền thống rằng có thượng đế, rồi bạn sẽ làm gì, làm sao bạn tìm ra? Điều đó thật quan trọng hơn là tin. Phải không? Bạn có đồng ý, tìm hiểu rất quan trọng hơn là tin tưởng. Phải không? Giờ bạn sẽ dừng tin chứ?
45:21	S: I don’t believe in anything. K: No, stop it. Therefore, you are free from certain conclusions that there is god. Right? Will you do that, or you’re frightened? No, don’t say ‘no’, we’re all frightened people.	S: Tôi không tin gì hết. K: Không, dừng kia. Tức là, bạn thoát khỏi kết luận rằng có thượng đế. Phải không? Bạn sẽ làm chứ, hay bạn sợ? S: Không. K: Không, đừng nói không, chúng ta sợ người khác.
45:43	S: Sir, we are frightened that, if we don’t believe in god, then suppose our mothers and fathers believe in god, then they might start talking about something...	S: Chúng ta sợ nếu không tin vào thượng đế và giả sử cha mẹ chúng ta tin thượng đế rồi thì họ có thể bắt đầu nói điều gì
45:53	K: That’s right.	K: Đúng thế.
45:55	S: Sir, since we are children we are brought up to believe in god, sir. We start believing that, if we don’t believe in god, god will do something bad to us. K: I know. But first find out why you want to believe in something. Don’t go to sleep! Why do you want to believe in something? Does it give you comfort, does it help you, does it cover up your sorrow, pain, and all that? That’s belief. Why do you believe in all this? What’s wrong with you?	S: Từ khi chúng ta còn bé được nuôi lớn lên trong tin tưởng thượng đế. Chúng ta bắt đầu tin rằng nếu không tin thượng đế thượng đế sẽ giáng họa cho chúng ta. K: Tôi biết. Nhưng trước hết hãy tìm xem tại sao bạn muốn tin điều gì. Đừng đi ngủ nhé! Tại sao bạn muốn tin vào việc gì? Có phải nó cho bạn dễ chịu, nó giúp bạn nó khỏa lấp khổ sở, đớn đau, mọi thứ? Đó là tin tưởng. Tại sao bạn tin mọi thứ ấy? Bạn có gì à?
46:41	S: I think many people, including me, believe because they feel, after so many stories which so many people have told them about god helping this person and god helping that person, they feel that, if they also believe in god, they might also be helped in difficult situations.	S: Tôi nghĩ nhiều người, cả tôi tin vì họ cảm thấy sau quá nhiều câu chuyện mà nhiều người kể họ nghe về thượng đế giúp đỡ người này hay thượng đế giúp đỡ người kia họ cảm thấy rằng nếu họ cũng tin thượng đế có lẽ họ cũng được giúp trong những lúc khốn cùng.
47:01	K: But find out if they have really been helped first.	K: Nhưng trước hết tìm xem họ được giúp thực không.
47:06	S: I haven’t been helped. K: You’re too young. You’re too small. Don’t bother about god and belief. You see, that’s one of our peculiarities that we believe, right away. Right? Right? We believe. We never find out. Your belief will prevent you from finding out. You understand what I am saying?	S: Tôi chưa được giúp. K: Bạn quá trẻ. Bạn quá nhỏ. Đừng bận tâm về thượng đế và niềm tin. Bạn thấy đó là tính kỳ cục của chúng ta chúng ta cả tin. Phải không? Chúng ta tin. Mà không bao giờ tìm hiểu. Niềm tin ngăn cản bạn tìm tòi. Bạn hiểu lời tôi chứ?
47:43	S: Sir, you believe when someone close to you believes it, like your mother.	S: Thưa, ta tin khi người ở gần ta tin tưởng, như
47:54	K: Yes, yes, if your mother believes, she wants you to believe the same thing. Right? And you listen to her but you don’t have to believe.	K: Vâng, vâng, nếu mẹ bạn tin bà muốn bạn cũng tin điều ấy. Phải không? Và bạn lắng nghe bà nhưng không cần phải tin.
48:06	S: Sir, some people are frightened that they might be excommunicated from the religion and they don’t want to do that. They will be excommunicated from the religion if they don’t believe in the god.	S: Thưa, vài người lo sợ rằng họ có thể bị rút phép thông công nhà thờ và họ không muốn làm thế. Họ sẽ bị rút phép thông công nhà thờ nếu họ không tin thượng đế.
48:18	K: I know, of course. That’s playing games.	K: Dĩ nhiên, tôi biết. Đó là trò chơi.
48:22	S: Sir, does god help you, sir? K: Me? Are you asking me? Has god helped me? S: No, helped anyone.	S: Thưa, thượng đế giúp ngài chứ? K: Tôi? Bạn hỏi tôi à? Thượng đế có giúp tôi? S: Không, giúp ai đó.
48:33	K: You’d better ask them. Better ask somebody who says, ‘God has helped me’. Be careful. If he says it has, what will you do?	K: Bạn nên hỏi họ. Nên hỏi ai đó nói, 'Thượng đế giúp tôi'. Cẩn thận nhé. Nếu anh ta nói có, bạn sẽ làm gì?
48:48	S: Believe in god. K: Yes, that’s all. Some nut comes along in peculiar clothes, like me, and he says, ‘There is god, I know there is god’. Right? Will you believe him?	S: Tin thượng đế. K: Vâng, vậy đó. Kẻ điên nào đó đến trong bộ áo kỳ cục, như tôi và anh ta nói, 'Có thượng đế, tôi biết có', phải không? Bạn tin anh ta chứ?
49:12	S: No, sir. K: Why?	S: Không ạ. K: Tại sao?
49:15	S: We don’t believe unless we see it, sir.	S: Chúng tôi không tin trừ khi thấy ạ.
49:22	S: He’s got to prove it. S: There is no proof.	S: Anh ta phải chứng minh. S: Không bằng chứng.
49:26	K: Too many people talking at once.	K: Nhiều người nói cùng lúc.
49:28	S: You’ve got to be very convincing. Only then can we believe.	S: Ngài phải rất thuyết phục. Chỉ như thế chúng tôi mới tin.
49:35	K: You know, have you been to some of the magicians, some of the conjurers? Have you seen them? S: Yes, sir.	K: Này, bạn có viếng thăm vài nhà ảo thuật hay thầy phù thuỷ chưa? Bạn thấy họ chưa? S: Có ạ.
49:46	K: They will do something before you know what has happened. No, don’t go into all that, you’re all too small. What time is it?	K: Họ làm gì đó trước khi bạn biết điều gì xảy ra. Không, không đào sâu nữa, các bạn quá nhỏ. Mấy giờ rồi?
50:04	S: Quarter past. K: Nine.	S: Hơn 15 phút. K: 9 giờ.
50:06	S: Ten fifteen. K: Ten fifteen. I’ve got fifteen minutes more? Too bad! What shall we talk about?	S: 10 giờ 15. K: 10 giờ 15. Tôi còn 15 phút nữa chứ? Tệ quá! Chúng ta sẽ nói gì nào?
50:17	S: Is there a way of thinking without using the past?	S: Có cách nào suy tư mà không dùng quá khứ ạ?
50:25	K: Is there a way of thinking without the past? Is there a way of thinking without all the memories involved in the past? Right? To answer that question correctly, accurately, impersonally, you have to go into the whole structure, nature of thought. Right? Have you done it? No. Would you like to do it? S: Yes.	K: Có cách nào suy tư mà không có quá khứ. Có chăng cách suy tư mà không có ký ức dính với quá khứ. Phải không? Để trả lời câu hỏi này đúng đắn, chính xác, vô tư bạn phải tìm hiểu toàn bộ cấu trúc, bản chất của ý nghĩ. Phải không? Bạn làm chưa? Chưa. Bạn có muốn làm không? S: Có.
51:10	K: Would you like to listen to it? And would you like to follow it up after you have listened to it?	K: Bạn muốn nghe điều ấy chứ? Và bạn có muốn theo đuổi nó đến cùng sau khi nghe không?
51:22	S: If it’s true.	S: Nếu nó đúng.
51:25	K: If it is true. Right? What is the origin, the beginning of thought? How does thought arise?	K: Nếu nó đúng. Phải không? Nguồn gốc, khởi đầu của ý nghĩ là gì? Làm sao ý nghĩ khởi lên?
51:42	S: From the past experiences.	S: Từ kinh nghiệm cũ.
51:47	K: So, are you saying that thought has its roots in the past experience? In past experiences, plural. So you are saying – are you? – that thought has its roots in experience? Right? Are you saying ‘yes’? S: Yes.	K: Vậy bạn nói ý nghĩ có gốc rễ từ kinh nghiệm cũ Những kinh nghiệm cũ. Vậy bạn nói, bạn bảo ý nghĩ có gốc rễ từ kinh nghiệm sao? Phải không? Bạn nói thế à? S: Vâng.
52:16	K: Be quite sure, don’t hesitate. If you had no experience, would you think?	K: Chắc chắn, đừng trù trừ. Nếu không kinh nghiệm, bạn có suy nghĩ không?
52:32	S: Sir, like I told you, sir, our thought in the beginning is like an empty box and that has been filled up, sir, and that is all the past. If there is no past, sir, the box will be forever empty.	S: Thưa, như tôi đã nói ý nghĩ chúng ta ban đầu như cái hộp rỗng và rồi nó đầy ắp, và đó là cả quá khứ. Nếu không có quá khứ, cái hộp trống rỗng mãi.
52:43	K: Quite right, sir. You come out here. You don’t mind? Do you mind coming up and sitting here?	K: Đúng thế. Bạn đến đây nào. Bạn không ngại chứ? Bạn có ngại đến ngồi đây không?
52:52	S: No, sir. K: Good. He’s saying, the bottle – you are going back to the bottle. You know what going back to the bottle means? Drinking. Where do you come from? S: Bangalore.	S: Không ạ. K: Tốt. Anh ta nói cái chai - bạn sẽ trở lại cái chai. Bạn biết trở lại cái chai là sao không? Uống. Bạn từ đâu đến? S: Mandu.
53:15	K: Bangalore? Good. Do you like it here? S: Yes.	K: Mandu, tốt. Bạn thích nơi đây không? S: Vâng.
53:20	K: Have you told the teachers you like it here?	K: Có nói với thầy giáo bạn thích nơi đây chưa?
53:23	S: My teacher asked that.	S: Thầy giáo hỏi thế.
53:32	K: It’s like an empty bottle that has been filled with a lot of experience. Right? This is what he says. And, from that experience, from that past, all the things that have been filled in the bottle are memories, are remembrances, and so the bottle is always moving within itself. All right, sir, and then what? Tell me, go on! Your brain is like an empty box, empty bottle, and filled from childhood with problems. Right? How to pass, how to read, how to write and all that stuff, all through life. And so your brain, like a bottle, he says, is filled with all that. And when the bottle begins to move around, talk, the bottle, the contents of the bottle are remembrances, knowledge, which then are put into words, first thought, then words. Right? I wonder – don’t agree, you don’t learn anything if you agree merely.	K: Như cái chai rỗng bị đổ đầy ắp kinh nghiệm. Phải không? Anh ta nói vậy đó. Và từ kinh nghiệm ấy, từ quá khứ ấy mọi thứ ấy được đổ đầy chai là ký ức, là ghi nhớ và bên trong cái chai ấy luôn động đậy. Vậy đó, rồi gì nữa? Nói tiếp xem! Trí óc bạn như chiếc hộp rỗng, chai rỗng và từ bé đã đầy ắp vấn đề. Phải không? Thi cử ra sao, đọc thế nào, viết thế nào và với mớ hỗn độn ấy suốt cả đời. Và trí óc bạn, anh ta nói, như cái chai, đầy mọi cái đó. Và khi cái chai bắt đầu chạy lòng vòng, nói chuyện cái chai, tích chứa trong chai là ký ức kiến thức, rồi thốt thành lời ý nghĩ trước, từ ngữ sau. Phải không? Tôi tự hỏi - đừng đồng ý, bạn không học được gì nếu đồng ý
55:06	S: Sir, pretend the box was empty, how did you get your first thought?	S: Thưa, giả sử cái chai rỗng làm sao ta có ý nghĩ đầu tiên?
55:13	K: How did the first man two million years ago, how did he begin to think? Have you seen that cartoon by a scientist, probably a biologist? You see the man – picture, a cartoon, a man who hunts, then hunts, eats, and sleeps. Right? Are you listening? Then the next cartoon is a little more advanced, he doesn’t hunt, but he gets somebody else to hunt.	K: Làm sao người đầu tiên hai triệu năm trước, làm sao anh ta bắt đầu suy nghĩ. Bạn xem phim hoạt hình khoa học, hay sinh vật học chưa? Bạn thấy con người - hình, hoạt hình con người đi săn rồi đi săn, ăn, và ngủ. Phải không? Bạn đang nghe chứ? Rồi phim hoạt hình kế tiến bộ hơn một chút anh ta không đi săn, nhưng bảo người khác đi săn.
56:03	S: Because he knows it is dangerous.	S: Bởi vì anh ta biết nguy hiểm.
56:07	K: Yes, yes, yes. And the third picture is – he doesn’t hunt, but he’s learning how to use instruments, and so on. So, ultimately, he’s become very intellectual. Right? Like you, very intellectual, very... like us, you understand? First he begins by hunting and eating, then by making others hunt and eat, and third – he’s the picture of us. I don’t know if you understand all this, it doesn’t matter. So, what makes us behave as we do? This is too difficult for you. Have you ever sat quietly, not moving a muscle, not moving your eyes, have you done it? Would you like to do it? Sit absolutely quiet. Will you do it?	K: Phải, phải, phải. Và hình ảnh thứ ba: anh ta không đi săn nhưng học cách dùng dụng cụ, và v.v.. Cuối cùng, anh ta trở nên quá khôn ngoan - phải không? như bạn, rất khôn ngoan, rất như chúng ta, bạn hiểu không? Đầu tiên anh ta bắt đầu bằng săn bắn và ăn rồi bảo người khác đi săn và ăn và thứ ba anh ta là hình ảnh của chúng ta. Không biết bạn hiểu hết không, không thành vấn đề. Vậy điều gì làm chúng ta cư xử như hiện giờ? Điều này quá khó với bạn. Bạn có ngồi im lặng chưa không động đậy, không nháy mắt, bạn có làm chưa? Bạn muốn làm thế không? Hãy ngồi thật yên lặng. Bạn làm chứ?
57:40	S: Sir, but what’s the use of that?	S: Thưa, nhưng làm thế ích gì?
57:45	K: Just to control your body, see if you can control your body. There is no use in anything; if you say, ‘Why should I eat, what’s the use of it?’ You die. Right? So, will you try and sit very, very quietly. Not blink, not move your eyes. Try it, old boy, try it for fun, you know, sit quietly, go on. Sit quietly.	K: Chỉ kiểm soát cơ thể, xem bạn có thể kiểm soát cơ thể không. Không có ích lợi gì; nếu bạn nói 'Tại sao tôi ăn, thế có ích gì?' Bạn chết. Phải không? Vậy, bạn thử ngồi thật im lặng xem. Không nháy, không liếc mắt. Thử xem anh bạn, thử cho vui, bạn biết ngồi im, tiếp tục. Ngồi im.
58:18	S: Life is fun, sir?	S: Đời vui lắm sao?
58:21	K: Move over your leg – put the other leg over there, old boy.	K: Dời chân qua - để chân kia qua đó anh bạn.
58:30	S: Sir, is life fun, sir?	S: Đời vui lắm sao?
58:36	K: It all depends.	K: Tuỳ thôi.
58:38	S: If we get dirty water, it’s no fun. If we get clean water, it’s fun.	S: Nếu chúng ta có nước đục thì không vui. Nếu chúng ta có nước trong thì vui.
58:42	K: Clean water is, if you like to call it fun, but it is mixed all with dirty water. Right? So, let’s see if you will sit quietly for a minute.	K: Nước trong, nếu bạn thích gọi thế là vui nhưng nó hòa lẫn với nước đục. Phải không? Nào, xem bạn sẽ ngồi yên lặng một phút.