Krishnamurti - Tìm ra cái không phải yêu thương

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA79D2 - Tìm ra cái không phải yêu thương
Buổi Thảo luậ̣n thứ nhì
Saanen, Thuỵ sĩ
26 tháng Bảy 1979

1:02	Krishnamurti: Before we begin our dialogue I think we ought to clear up some points that arose yesterday towards the end of the meeting.	K:Trước khi vào đối thoại tôi nghĩ chúng ta phải quét sạch vài vấn đề nổi lên vào cuối buổi hôm qua.
1:24	We seem to be blocking ourselves. Some say it is not possible, what you are talking about can never be put in daily life. ‘I have listened to you for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, and nothing has happened, I am just the same as before’. That is a block that prevents each one, or the person who says these things, it prevents him from investigating himself. He has blocked himself, saying, ‘It is not possible’. That’s obvious.	Dường như chúng ta đóng kín mình. Vài bạn nói không thể điều ngài nói không bao giờ có thể sống hàng ngày. 'Tôi đã nghe ngài 20, 30, 40, 50 năm qua và chẳng có gì xảy ra, tôi vẫn y như trước'. Chính đóng kín ấy ngăn cản mỗi người, hay người nói điều ấy, nó cản trở anh ta tìm hiểu chính mình. Anh khóa kín mình, nói, 'Không thể được'. Hiển nhiên.
2:27	And also there are those who say, ‘I understand partially, I want to understand the whole before I can do something’. Again that is a block. Again that prevents your own investigation of yourselves, you are blocking yourself.	Và cũng có người nói, 'Tôi hiểu một phần tôi muốn hiểu toàn bộ trước khi có thể làm gì.' Lại là đóng kín. Nó lại cản trở bạn tìm kiếm chính mình bạn khóa chặc bạn.
2:58	And there are those who say, ‘What you are saying is totally impractical, why don’t you stop talking and go away?’ Such people, and I have heard this very often, not only prevent their own investigation of themselves but also because one person can’t do it himself, he condemns the rest of the world – because if I can’t do it, you can’t do it. And so this goes on.	Và có người nóí, 'Điều ngài nói thật là không thể, tại sao ngài không dừng lại và đi đi?' Người như thế, và tôi thường nghe thế không chỉ ngăn cản họ tìm hiểu chính họ mà cũng bởi chính anh ta không thể làm nên anh lên án cả thế giới - bởi nếu tôi không thể, bạn cũng không thể. Và việc ấy xảy ra.
3:49	We’ll start the discussion... As I said, please, let me talk a little, and then we will have a dialogue. If we could, this morning and the next four mornings, realise, if I may point out, that we are not a whole 1000 or 2000 people in the tent, but we are talking to each other, single person. You understand? You and the speaker are talking together. When we two talk together, it includes all the others – bound to. And I’d like to point out, if I may again, please, don’t hinder yourself by blocking yourself, by saying, ‘I can’t do this, it is impossible. You are a biological freak, and this is not applicable to ordinary people’. Or, ‘You have to have special genes to understand all this’. One finds innumerable excuses, one finds every form of avoidance of looking into one’s own hindrances, observing them closely, understanding them and trying to put them aside. If we could do that, then perhaps we could have better communication with each other. Please.	Chúng ta bắt đầu thảo luận... Như đã nói hãy để tôi nói một chút rồi sẽ vào đối thoại. Nếu chúng ta có thể hiểu, sáng nay và bốn buổi kế tiếp tôi xin chỉ ra, chúng ta không phải cả 1000 hay 2000 người trong lều này mà chúng ta nói chuyện nhau, từng người. Bạn hiểu không? Bạn và người nói cùng trò chuyện. Khi hai người nói chuyện nhau có cả người khác - gồm hết. Và tôi muốn chỉ ra, nếu có thể, đừng cản trở chính bạn đóng kín bạn, hay nói, 'Tôi không thể làm, thật không thể. Ngài là sinh vật kỳ dị và không thể áp dụng cho mọi người'. Hay, 'Ngài phải có gien đặc biệt để hiểu mọi thứ ấy'. Bạn tìm ra vô số lý lẽ bạn tìm mọi cách không thèm nhìn vào trở ngại của mình không thèm quan sát kỹ để thấu hiểu và dẹp chúng sang bên. Nếu có thể làm thế rồi thì chúng ta có thể trao đổi nhau tốt hơn. Vậy nhé.
5:53	And also I would like to point out: I think we don’t listen, we don’t really try to find out what the other person is trying to say. And listening requires certain attention, care, affection. If I want to understand what you are saying, I must listen to you, not block myself all the way, all the time. I must care for what you are saying, I must have respect, I must have affection, love, otherwise we can’t communicate certain things which are really very, very serious and require a great deal of enquiry. So if I may suggest that we listen with affection, with care. All these dialogues and what happened yesterday indicated that we have very little love for each other. Right? We want to assert our own points of view. We want to exercise our own opinions and dominate others by our judgements, by our conclusions, by our asserting that we have listened to you for so long, why haven’t we changed. All that indicates, it seems to me, and I may be wrong, that there is no real love. I am not blaming anybody, I am just stating this. Don’t get… don’t ride the high horse!	Và tôi cũng muốn chỉ ra: tôi nghĩ chúng ta không nghe không thực sự ráng tìm xem người khác đang cố nói gì. Và lắng nghe đòi hỏi chú ý, để tâm, yêu thích. Nếu tôi muốn hiểu bạn đang nói gì tôi phải nghe bạn không đóng kín mình mọi lối, mọi lúc. Tôi phải để ý bạn nói gì, tôi phải tôn trọng, tôi phải yêu, thích, nếu không thì không thể trao đổi điều gì thực nghiêm túc và đòi hỏi thật nhiều tìm tòi. Vậy tôi xin đề nghị chúng ta nghe với yêu thích, để ý. Hết các buổi đối thoại, và việc xảy ra hôm qua chỉ ra chúng ta rất ít yêu thương nhau. Phải không? Chúng ta muốn tuyên bố quan điểm riêng. Chúng ta muốn thi hành quan niệm và thống trị kẻ khác bởi phán đoán, bởi kết luận, bởi tuyên bố rằng chúng tôi nghe ngài quá lâu, tại sao không thay đổi. Mọi điều ấy chỉ ra hình như với tôi thôi, và có thể sai, rằng không có yêu thương thật. Tôi không chỉ trích ai, tôi chỉ nói vậy. Đừng... đừng làm bộ như vậy! Và tôi nghĩ nên tìm hiểu sâu vấn đề, tại sao không nghe.
8:24	And I think we should go into this question deeply, why we don’t listen. Or we say, ‘Yes, I have listened’ – finished. ‘I have already listened to you for 20 years, so over, I am not going to listen to you any more’. You don’t say that to a child, do you, whom you love? He wants to tell you something. He may be telling it to you ten times, he has already told you, but the next time he says something you listen. You don’t brush him aside. You are not impatient. You love that child. And I think in all these discussions and dialogues and talks we are missing that essential perfume. I don’t think we know what it is to listen with love, which doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be critical, which doesn’t mean that we should accept everything that is said. It doesn’t also mean that we agree or disagree. You listen, listen with care, with affection, with a sense of communication with each other. And for that one must have love. And probably that is what is missing. We are all too terribly intellectual, or too romantic, or too sentimental. All that denies love.	Hay nói, 'Vâng, tôi đã nghe' - xong. 'Tôi đã nghe ngài 20 năm, vậy là xong.' 'Tôi sẽ không nghe ngài nữa'. Bạn không nói vậy với đứa bé bạn yêu thương, phải không? Nó muốn nói với bạn điều gì. Có thể nó nói việc ấy với bạn 10 lần, nó đã nói rồi nhưng lần tới nó nói gì đó bạn nghe. Bạn đừng đẩy nó ra. Bạn không kiên nhẫn. Bạn yêu cháu bé ấy. Và tôi nghĩ mọi buổi thảo luận và đối thoại và nói chuyện chúng ta thiếu hương thơm cơ bản ấy. Tôi không nghĩ chúng ta biết nghe với yêu thương là gì không nghĩa là chúng ta không nên phê phán không nghĩa là chúng ta nên chấp nhận mọi điều được nói. Cũng không nghĩa là chúng ta đồng ý hay không. Bạn nghe, nghe với để tâm với yêu mến, với ý nghĩa trao đổi lẫn nhau. Và vì thế phải có yêu thương. Và có lẽ đó là điểm thiếu sót. Chúng ta quá trí thức, hay quá lãng mạn, hay quá cảm tình. Mọi cái đó chối bỏ yêu thương.
10:24	So perhaps, if we could this morning have a dialogue of whatever you want, whatever subject you want, bearing in mind that without this quality of affection, care, love and compassion we merely play with words, remain superficial, antagonistic, assertive, dogmatic, and so on. It remains merely verbal, it has no depth, no quality, no perfume. So bearing that in mind, what subject would you like to talk about this morning?	Vậy, sáng nay nếu có thể đối thoại về gì đó bạn thích chủ đề nào bạn muốn, nên nhớ là không có đặc tính của yêu mến, để ý, yêu thương là chỉ đùa với chữ vẫn là hời hợt, chống đối, khẳng định, giáo điều, v.v.. Vẫn chỉ là chữ, không chiều sâu, không phẩm chất, hương thơm. Nên ghi nhớ như thế chủ đề nào bạn muốn nói sáng nay?
11:22	Q: Sir, could we continue with our discussion yesterday of action, and how to deal with mental and physical disability?	Q:Thưa, có thể tiếp tục thảo luận hôm qua về hành động và xử sự thế nào với tàn tật, tâm lý và vật lý?
11:32	K: Could you go into again, as we began yesterday, the questioner asks, could we discuss action.	K:Có thể trở lại tìm hiểu như hôm qua, anh bạn hỏi, có thể thảo luận về hành động. Q:Có thể nào cùng suy nghĩ
11:44	Q: Is it possible to have thinking together if only one person wants to have it?	nếu chỉ một người muốn thế?
11:49	K: Is it possible to think together if the other person refuses to think together?	K:Có thể nào cùng suy nghĩ nếu người kia từ chối cùng suy nghĩ? (Cười) Q:Tôi có khó khăn để hiểu điều ngài nói về ghi lại.
12:04	Q: I have difficulty in understanding what you mean by registration. In English we use the word meaning to become aware of something, as in registering an impression, registering discomforts. But you seem to use or classify this recording. Would you go into that?	Trong Anh ngữ chữ ấy nghĩa là trở nên ý thức việc gì như trong ghi lại ấn tượng, ghi lại bực dọc. Nhưng có vẻ ngài dùng, hay phân loại ghi lại.
12:22	K: Would you go into the whole question of what you mean by registration. To register something, to remember something, to acknowledge, like a tape on which you register. Right? Could we go into that?	Ngài đi sâu được không? K:Bạn muốn tìm hiểu toàn bộ vấn đề bạn nói về ghi lại à? Ghi lại điều gì, nhớ lại việc gì xác nhận, như băng từ bạn ghi lên đó. Phải không? Có thể tìm hiểu nó.
12:40	Q: Why are we satisfied in the way we are living?	Q:Tại sao chúng ta thỏa mãn lối sống mình?
12:48	K: Why are we satisfied in the way we are living.	K:Tại sao chúng ta thỏa mãn lối sống mình?
12:54	Q: What is the relationship, or the difference, between the nature of thought and the mechanics of thinking? One thought appears to follow the other even for no special reason, and the movement of thought can be violent, even if the content of the thought, you thought was positive.	Q:Quan hệ gì, hay sự khác nhau giữa bản chất suy nghĩ và cơ học của suy nghĩ? Ý nghĩ này như theo đuổi ý nghĩ kia dù không có lý do gì và chuyển động suy nghĩ có thể là bạo lực nếu nội dung của suy nghĩ, ngài nghĩ là tích cực.
13:19	K: I have not quite understood it, sir.	K:Tôi không hiểu gì hết.
13:25	Q: I am interested in the mechanics of thinking, and the difference or the relationship between the mechanics and thought itself.	Q:Tôi thích thú về cơ học của suy nghĩ, sự khác nhau hay liên hệ giữa cơ học và chính suy nghĩ.
13:34	K: You would like to examine the whole structure of thought.	K:Bạn muốn xem xét toàn bộ cấu trúc của suy nghĩ.
13:41	Q: Not the structure of thought itself but the mechanics of thinking too.	Q:Không chỉ cấu trúc suy nghĩ mà cả cơ học của suy nghĩ nữa.
13:45	K: Mechanics, that’s what... We are using the word perhaps differently. We will use the word, the mechanics of thinking.	K:Cơ học, đó là... có lẽ chúng ta dùng chữ khác nhau. Chúng ta sẽ dùng chữ, cơ học của suy nghĩ.
13:57	Q: Because I noticed that it is possible to have neutral or positive thoughts, but the mechanics of this thinking is functioning very well.	Q:Bởi tôi để ý là có thể có ý nghĩ trung hoà hay tích cực nhưng cơ học của suy nghĩ ấy hoạt động rất tốt.
14:12	K: I am not quite sure I understand it, sir.	K:Tôi thực không chắc là tôi hiểu. Q:Tôi nghĩ anh ta nói có khác nhau, bên trong suy nghĩ
14:18	Q: I think he is saying that there is difference: inside the thought could be positive, but in the way it expresses itself, negative.	có thể là tích cực nhưng cách nó biểu lộ, lại tiêu cực.
14:29	Q: Yes. Maybe thought is surviving, like animals in the jungle, which is havoc, even though the content of the thought is positive.	Q:Vâng. Có lẽ suy nghĩ sống còn như thú trong rừng bị tàn phá, tuy rằng nội dung suy nghĩ là tích cực. Q:(Tiếng Ý) K:À! Có phải suy nghĩ luôn là
14:51	K: Ah! Is thinking always mechanical, or is there a different kind of thinking which is non-mechanical.	máy móc hay có loại suy nghĩ khác không máy móc.
15:01	Q: No. That is not the same. My thinking often doesn’t flow very well. There is violence in the thoughts, in the mechanics, but not in the content of the thought. Positive thought can be violent.	Q:Không. Không phải thế. Suy nghĩ tôi thường không trôi chảy tốt. Có bạo lực trong ý nghĩ, trong cơ học nhưng không trong nội dung suy nghĩ. Suy nghĩ tích cực có thể là bạo lực. K:Suy nghĩ tích cực cũng là bạo lực.
15:24	K: Positive thought is violence, too. All right, sir. I think we’ll answer that. Just sit down, sir, we’ll go into it.	Được rồi. Tôi nghĩ chúng ta sẽ trả lời. Ngồi xuống đi, chúng ta sẽ tìm hiểu. Q:Tại sao yêu thương là nhớ?
15:36	Q: Why is love missing? Why don’t we love?	Sao chúng ta không yêu? K:Sao chúng ta không yêu.
15:52	K: Why don’t we love. Sir, when you put a question like that, are you saying, why don’t I love? Not why don’t we love? Why isn’t there love in my heart, or in my being? Would that be right, sir? Right.	Khi bạn đặt câu hỏi như thế phải bạn nói, sao tôi không yêu? Không phải sao chúng ta không yêu? Tại sao không có yêu thương trong tim, hay trong tôi? Có đúng vậy không? Đúng. Câu hỏi nào khác?
16:27	Any other questions?	Q:Ngài nói suy nghĩ giới hạn
16:29	Q: You said that thought is limited, and yet if we look around, thought has conquered the whole of humanity. I would like you to elaborate on that, please.	và nếu chúng ta nhìn xung quanh suy nghĩ nắm cả nhân loại. Tôi mong ngài vui lòng nói thêm về nó.
16:46	K: You say thought is limited, but every action is based on thought. All the activities – social, economic, religious, personal – are based on thought.	K:Bạn nói suy nghĩ giới hạn nhưng mọi hành động dựa vào nó. Mọi hoạt động, xã hội kinh tế, tôn giáo, cá nhân, đều dựa trên suy nghĩ.
17:05	Q: And it has conquered the whole of humanity.	Q:Và nó chế ngự toàn thể nhân loại.
17:08	K: And it is a common factor of whole humanity.	K:Và đó là tác nhân chung của cả nhân loại.
17:13	Q: It has conquered the whole of humanity.	Q:Nó chế ngự toàn thể nhân loại.
17:17	K: It has conquered the whole world. All right, sir.	K:Chế ngự toàn thể nhân loại. Được rồi.
17:23	Q: I’m still interested in how I am blocking myself.	Q:Tôi vẫn quan tâm làm sao tôi đóng kín mình.
17:28	K: Yes, sir. The gentleman says he is still interested in that question where he has had an accident, it has affected his whole nervous system, and therefore his brain and his activity in life.	K:Vâng. Anh này nói anh vẫn còn quan tâm vấn đề ấy chỗ anh bị tai nạn, nó tác động toàn bộ hệ thần kinh anh và vì vậy cả não và sinh hoạt của anh.
17:44	Q: Sir, is it possible to know something without having to show something?	Q:Thưa, có thể nào biết gì đó mà không phải phơi bày nó?
18:03	K: Is it possible to know something without...	K:Có thể nào biết gì đó mà không...
18:10	Q:...having to show something.	Q:phải phơi bày nó...
18:43	K: So out of these questions, which shall we take? Action, why isn’t there love in my heart, what is the meaning of registration, the significance of registration, and is thought everlastingly mechanical, and is there something... thought still non-mechanical. So which of these questions? If we take them all together, which is the central question in all these?	K:Vậy các câu này chúng ta sẽ lấy câu nào? Hành động, sao không có yêu thương trong tim ý nghĩa của ghi lại là gì ý nghĩa của ghi lại và có phải suy nghĩ luôn là máy móc và có chăng suy nghĩ không máy móc. Vậy câu hỏi nào đây? Nếu chúng ta lấy hết chúng thì đâu là câu hỏi trung tâm?
20:19	Q: The question of love, sir, it would answer the others, I think.	Q:Câu về yêu thương, tôi nghĩ chắc sẽ đáp hết mấy câu kia.
20:26	K: Could we go into this question why is it that we human beings have no sense of love? Perhaps if we could go into that very deeply – again, together – please, not I talk and you listen, but together, then perhaps in the investigation of that we will be able to find out what is thinking, what place has thinking, whether it is mechanical or non-mechanical, and why the mind is always registering incidents, accidents, hurts, all the experiences of man, stored up, and what is action that will be so complete, it won’t leave a mark of misery, confusion. Could we take this one question, which is, what is love, why don’t we love? Would that be all right? Q: Yes.	K:Chúng ta có thể tìm hiểu câu tại sao con người chúng ta không có cảm giác yêu thương? Có lẽ nếu chúng ta tìm hiểu thật sâu - cũng cùng nhau không phải tôi nói bạn nghe, mà cùng nhau rồi có lẽ trong khi tìm tòi chúng ta có thể tìm ra suy nghĩ là gì, suy nghĩ có vị trí gì, là máy móc hay không máy móc, và tại sao trí óc luôn ghi lại sự cố tai nạn, tổn thương, mọi kinh nghiệm con người lưu lại, và hành động gì sẽ là trọn vẹn, không lưu lại vết tích đau khổ, rối loạn. Có thể lấy câu này, tức là yêu thương là gì, sao chúng ta không yêu? Vậy được không? Q:Vâng.
21:54	K: No, don’t, please, I don’t mind. Do you want to discuss that? Q: Yes.	K:Không, đừng, tôi không phiền đâu. Bạn muốn thảo luận nó à? Q:Vâng.
22:01	K: Yes? I wonder how we approach this question.	K:Vâng? Làm sao chúng ta tiếp cận vấn đề.
22:16	What is your approach to it? You understand my question? How do you come to find out what is the meaning of love, why you, as a human being, have not this perfume, this quality that perhaps may answer all the other questions in life? Now what is your approach to it? How do you come to investigate that problem? Or it may not be possible to investigate that, but one can find out what may hinder it. You understand? What may prevent this extraordinary thing that man seems to be longing for and doesn’t seem to get it, have it. Could we do that? So what is your approach to it? You understand my question? Because how you approach a problem is really important. Not the problem itself so much, but how you come to it, how you look at it, what is your intention, and all that. So please, find out, if I may request, what is your approach, how you receive that question, whether your mind is romantic, sentimental, whether it is born out of desire. So you have to go into this very carefully if you want to go very deeply into this question, because one may, in going into this, perhaps we will be able to answer the whole nature of thinking. Right? So are we clear how you approach it, each one of us? Or you have certain conclusions already about it. Certain opinions and your experiences, will they block you, will they prevent you from going into it very, very, very deeply? Right? So please, we are talking together, not to each one, together. You understand? The speaker is talking to you personally – you. So what is your approach? Are you aware of your approach and how you approach it? Are you aware of your prejudice, your images about it, your conclusions about it, or what people have said about it? Can you put all that aside and try to find out?	Tiếp cận là gì? Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không? Làm sao bạn đến để tìm ra yêu thương nghĩa là gì tại sao bạn, con người, không có hương thơm ấy đặc tính ấy có thể giải đáp mọi vấn đề trong cuộc sống? Giờ thì tiếp cận là gì? Làm sao bạn đến để tìm hiểu vấn đề? Hay có lẽ không thể tìm hiểu nó nhưng có thể tìm ra cái gì cản trở. Hiểu không? Cái gì có thể cản trở vật lạ lùng ấy và dường như con người khao khát mà không đạt được, có được. Có thể làm chứ? Vậy tiếp cận là gì? Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không? Bởi tiếp cận vấn đề cách nào là rất quan trọng. Không phải chính vấn đề mà làm sao bạn chạm nó làm sao bạn nhìn nó, ý định bạn và mọi thứ. Vậy hãy tìm xem, tôi xin đề nghị tiếp cận là gì, làm sao bạn nhận câu hỏi, xem trí óc có lãng mạn, cảm tình, xem có sinh từ ước muốn. Vậy bạn phải tìm hiểu thật kỹ nếu bạn muốn đào thật sâu câu hỏi này, bởi có thể trong khi tìm hiểu nó chúng ta có thể trả lời toàn bộ bản chất của suy nghĩ. Phải không? Vậy mỗi chúng ta có rõ làm sao tiếp cận nó? Hay bạn đã có vài kết luận về nó rồi. Vài quan niệm và kinh nghiệm, chúng có khóa chặc bạn chúng sẽ ngăn cản bạn tìm hiểu thật, thật sâu chứ? Phải không? Vậy chúng ta cùng trò chuyện, không phải với từng người. Bạn hiểu không? Người nói nói với riêng bạn - bạn. Vậy tiếp cận là gì? Bạn có ý thức tiếp cận và làm sao tiếp cận chứ? Bạn có ý thức định kiến, hình ảnh về nó kết luận về nó, hay người khác nói gì về nó? Bạn có thể dẹp hết sang bên và cố tìm xem?
26:35	Q: What is love?	Q:Yêu thương là gì? K:Yêu thương là gì?
26:45	K: What is love? That we are going to find out, sir, that is what we are doing.	Chúng ta sẽ tìm hiểu nó, chúng ta đang làm đó.
26:53	Q: Sir, but what is the meaning of the word?	Q:Thưa, nhưng chữ ấy nghĩa gì?
26:56	K: You know, sir, first, the word, the word – let’s be clear that we both have the same meaning about that word, not that you may have a different meaning from the speaker, or the speaker different from you. You understand? So we must be clear about the word itself. Right? Generally, in a good dictionary, the origin of it is desire. In Sanskrit it is ‘Lumpyati’ – I won’t go into it, it is: he desires. You follow? Love is associated with a desire. Please, I am explaining the dictionary meaning of that word. It is not my concept or your concept, what is the common usage of that word. So if we are clear, that we both recognise that the word is not the thing. You understand? You understand what I am saying? The word is not the thing. The word ‘microphone’ is not the actual microphone. Right? So we must be clear always through our discussions, if I may point out, that the word is not the actual fact. Right? So we are enquiring into what is love.	K:Bạn biết mà, trước hết là chữ - hãy rõ là cả chúng ta có cùng ý nghĩa về chữ ấy, không phải bạn có thể có ý nghĩa khác với người nói, hay người nói khác với bạn. Bạn hiểu không? Vậy phải rõ về chính chữ ấy. Phải không? Nói chung, theo từ điển tốt, gốc nó là ước muốn. Trong Phạn ngữ, 'Lumpya' - sẽ không đi sâu, là, anh ấy muốn. Kịp không? Yêu thương liên quan với ước muốn. Nào, tôi giải thích nghĩa từ điển của chữ ấy. Không phải quan niệm của tôi hay bạn, mà là cách dùng chung. Vậy nếu đã rõ chúng ta đều biết chữ không phải sự vật. Bạn hiểu không? Bạn hiểu lời tôi nói không? Chữ không phải sự vật. Chữ 'micrô' không phải micrô thực. Phải không? Vậy phải luôn rõ ràng qua các buổi thảo luận nếu tôi có thể chỉ ra, chữ không phải sự kiện thực. Phải không? Vậy chúng ta tìm hiểu yêu thương là gì.
29:01	Q: Sir, we say that a child, a baby loves its mother, because it needs its meals. So in this case we say love is a fact of necessity.	Q:Thưa, chúng ta nói đứa bé bé sơ sinh yêu mẹ nó vì nó cần thức ăn. (Không nghe được) Trường hợp ấy yêu là sự kiện cần thiết.
29:25	Q: The baby loves its mother and that love is necessity.	Q:Bé sơ sinh yêu mẹ và yêu thương là cần thiết.
29:43	K: The mother loves the baby, and the baby loves the mother, and that is a necessity. Right? Is that so? You make a statement, you don’t investigate it. Is that so? The animals love their babies. The lowest form of life, manifestation of life, loves its young. And this is a movement from the animal to the man. And is that love? I am not saying it is not, or it is. Or is it the instinct from the animal carried on through the human – please, follow it step by step – and attachment, the animal brings up its cubs up to a certain age and then forgets about them. Right? They have gone from the nest. With a human, there is tremendous care till they are three, four, five, nursing them, looking after them, cleaning them, cuddling them, holding them; that is if you love that baby, which most people don’t – it becomes a plaything. Or they have not the occasion, not the time. After that they send them off to school, to a boarding school, and so on, so on, gradually push them away. Right? And we are asking, we are asking, I am not saying it is, or it is not, is that love? I know the mothers will say, ‘How can you say such a thing!’ I mean we are questioning, we are enquiring, we are not saying yes or no. Because we are thinking, observing together to find out for ourselves what is this nature, the beauty, quality, the extraordinary thing called love. If a mother and the parents loved their baby, looked after them – you follow? – then there would be no wars. Right? There would be right kind of education. There would be right kind of society. So we are asking, when a mother, when the parents love their baby, is it just for a short period, or right through life? Which means that they must have right education, bring them up, with right behaviour, without violence, without conflict, not train them to kill each other, organised war, which is respectable, accepted. You understand? Would a parent who really loved his children do this? Go on, sir, you are parents, think it out.	K:Mẹ yêu thương bé và bé yêu thương mẹ và đó là cần thiết. Phải không? Phải vậy không? Bạn nói một câu, và không tìm tòi. Phải thế không? Muông thú yêu thương con nó. Hình thức sống thấp nhất, biểu hiện sống, yêu con trẻ. Và đó là vận hành từ thú đến người. Và đó là yêu thương? Tôi không nói phải hay không phải. Hay đó là bản năng từ loài thú mang đến loài người và hãy theo từng bước - và bám víu, loài thú nuôi lớn con nó, đến tuổi nào đó, và rồi quên mất chúng. Phải không? Chúng rời tổ ấm. Với loài người chăm sóc đến khi chúng ba, bốn, năm tuổi bú mớm, trông nom, tắm gội chúng âu yếm, ẵm bồng, đó là nếu bạn yêu thương bé mà đa số thì không - nó trở thành đồ chơi. Hay họ không có cơ hội, không có thì giờ. Sau cùng họ gởi chúng đến trường trường nội trú, v.v.., v.v.., dần dà đẩy chúng đi xa. Phải không? Và chúng ta hỏi, chúng ta hỏi tôi không nói phải hay không, đó là yêu thương? Tôi biết các bà mẹ sẽ nói, 'Sao ngài có thể nói việc đó!' Tôi nói chúng ta hỏi, tìm tòi, không nói phải hay không. Bởi chúng ta cùng suy nghĩ, quan sát để tìm ra cho mình bản chất, vẻ đẹp, đặc tính, vật kỳ lạ gọi là yêu thương. Nếu người mẹ và cha mẹ yêu cháu bé trông coi chúng - kịp không? - thì chắc không có chiến tranh. Phải không? Nên có loại giáo dục đúng đắn. Nên có loại xã hội đúng đắn. Vậy chúng ta hỏi, khi người mẹ, khi cha mẹ yêu cháu bé chỉ trong thời gian ngắn, hay suốt cả đời? Nghĩa là phải có giáo dục đúng, nuôi chúng lớn với cư xử đúng, không bạo lực, xung đột, không rèn chúng giết nhau chiến tranh có tổ chức, được thừa nhận, kính trọng. Hiểu không? Cha mẹ thực sự yêu thương con có làm vậy không? Tiếp tục, bạn là cha mẹ, suy nghĩ đi. Q:Có khoảnh khắc phân chia xen vào.
34:12	Q: There is a moment where separation comes in.	K:Vào lúc có phân chia.
34:15	K: At the moment there is separation. The mother, the father separate themselves from their children. Right? And the children go off. They are attached to the children. Is attachment love? You people... Don’t, please – go into it.	Mẹ, cha tách rời họ với con cái. Phải không? Và con cái bỏ đi. Họ bám víu con cái. Bạm víu là yêu thương sao? Các bạn... Xin đừng - tìm hiểu đi.
34:52	Q: The parents get something from their children, and the children get something from their parents, so it is not love. K: Yes sir, I know all that. The baby needs a great deal of affection, care. If the parents don’t give affection, care, love to the child, the child withers. It is a well known fact. But generally the parents have their own problems, their own anxieties, fears, sorrows and business, worries – you know, all that. And they give the child a little of what they can when they have time. You understand all this? This is happening in the world. And so is all that love?	Q:Cha mẹ được gì đó từ con cái, và con cái được gì đó từ cha mẹ, nên đó không phải yêu thương. K:Vâng, tôi biết cả. Cháu bé cần nhiều yêu mến, chăm sóc. Nếu cha mẹ không yêu mến chăm sóc, yêu thương bé, bé héo khô. Đó là sự kiện dễ hiểu. Nhưng nói chung cha mẹ có vấn đề riêng, lo âu riêng sợ hãi, khổ đau và công việc lo lắng - bạn biết hết. Và họ cho con trẻ chút ít điều họ có thể khi rỗi rảnh. Bạn hiểu hết chứ? Việc xảy ra khắp thế giới. Và tất cả là yêu thương?
35:42	Q: No. K: Don’t say no, madame. Will you do something about it, test it?	Q:Không. K:Đừng nói không, chị à. Bạn sẽ làm gì đó chứ? thử xem? Q:Tôi nghĩ nên tiếp cận phủ định một chút
35:59	Q: I think we should approach it a little bit negatively, like what is not love.	như cái gì không phải yêu thương. K:Chúng ta đang làm.
36:05	K: We are doing that, sir. We have just done it!	Chúng ta chỉ làm thế! Q:Vậy à?
36:07	Q: Yes? Well, to look at this whole thing as one of the ways of approaching it. Time, space, and the whole human and animal race.	Nào, nhìn cả sự việc như là một trong các lối tiếp cận. Thời gian, không gian, và cả loài người và thú...
36:18	K: Yes, sir, we’ll come to it, sir, slowly, slowly.	K:Vâng, chúng ta sẽ đến đó, chầm chậm.
36:23	Q: I think the parents even defend themselves against the child.	Q:Tôi nghĩ cha mẹ ngay cả chống lại cháu bé.
36:28	K: Of course, that always happens. You follow? The parents are against the child, and the child becomes – you know, what is happening in the world. For god’s sake, look at it. So from that arises the question: is attachment love?	K:Dĩ nhiên, luôn xảy ra thế. Kịp không? Cha mẹ chống lại con cái, và con cái trở nên bạn biết việc xảy ra trên thế giới. Ơn trời, nhìn xem. Nên từ đó có câu hỏi: bám víu là yêu thương?
36:55	Q: Many parents think that it is.	Q:Nhiều cha mẹ nghĩ như vậy.
36:59	K: I know, many people think that without jealousy there is no love. If you don’t struggle, fight, if there is no conflict, if there is no jealousy, a sense of each one asserting, people imagine that there is no love, or that there is love – this state is love. Right? So I am asking from that: is attachment love? We are thinking over together, you and I. So are you attached to your children?	K:Tôi biết, nhiều người nghĩ không ghen thì không yêu thương. Nếu không tranh đấu, đánh, nếu không xung đột, nếu không ghen, cảm giác mỗi người khẳng định, người ta tưởng rằng có hay không có yêu thương - trạng thái ấy là yêu. Phải không? Vậy tôi hỏi: bám víu là yêu thương? Chúng ta cùng nhau suy nghĩ, bạn và tôi. Vậy bạn có bám víu con cái? Q:Có chăng chăm sóc và yêu mến làm ngài bị hút vào ai khác
38:14	Q: Is there a care and affection that makes you attractive to somebody else at a communion level as opposed to an attachment that you are dominating, and your ideas have to be the ideas of the other person. Can you be attached and understand that attachment?	ở mức độ quan hệ chứ không phải bám víu ngài đang thống trị và ý niệm ngài phải là ý niệm của người kia. Ngài có thể bám víu và thấu hiểu bám víu ấy?
38:34	K: When you dominate your children, or your wife, or your husband, or your girl, or boy, when you possess them, hold them that they are mine – is that love?	K:Khi bạn thống trị con cái, hay vợ, hay chồng hay bạn gái bạn trai khi bạn chiếm hữu họ, nắm họ họ là của tôi - đó là yêu thương? Q:Không.
38:53	Q: No.	K:Khi chúng ta hỏi, đó phải yêu thương không, khi bạn nói
38:54	K: Sir, when we ask that question, is that love, when you say, ‘No, it is not’, do you mean it is not in you – you understand? You are free of it, not just verbally say, ‘Yes, I am not’. So that is why I asked at the beginning, if I may point out, unless we do this actively, see, aware that it is so in us, and being aware, look at it, go into it, search out why human beings hold on to this attachment. Why you are attached as husband, wife, furniture, book, belief, it doesn’t matter – attachment. And if you are attached to one thing and another is attached to another, there is division. You understand? And is this division love? Please go into it.	'Không, không phải', là không phải ở bạn - hiểu không? Bạn thoát nó, không chỉ lời nói, 'Vâng, tôi không'. Vậy đó là lý do tôi hỏi từ đầu, nếu có thể chỉ ra trừ khi tích cực làm, nhìn, ý thức nó trong chúng ta và ý thức nhìn nó, tìm hiểu nó tìm xem tại sao con người ôm chặc bám víu. Tại sao bạn bám vào chồng vợ, đồ vật, sách, niềm tin, bất kỳ gì - bám víu. Và nếu bạn bám vào vật này, người khác bám vào vật kia liền có phân chia. Hiểu không? Và phân chia là yêu thương? Tìm hiểu xem. Q:Tôi mong ngài không phiền... K:Allezy, chị à, allezy.
40:08	Q: I hope you don’t mind my...	Q:Tôi nói ngay cả họ chống lại con cái. Tại sao thế?
40:12	K: Allezy, madame, allezy.	K:Chị à, nếu chị đọc báo và tạp chí
40:23	Q: I said they even defend themselves against their own children. Why so?	và người công tác xã hội và hết thảy, họ nói
40:39	K: Madame, if you read the newspapers and magazines, and social workers and all those, they are saying: after a great deal of attention, after a great deal of study, that unless parents really love their children, you know, really love them, have time with them, spend their energy with them, the children either generally die, the babies, or mentally, psychologically they are warped. And this lady was pointing out that some parents are opposed to their children. There are, they beat them, they force them, they do all kinds of things to them. That is all she was pointing out.	sau biết bao để ý, sau rất nhiều nghiên cứu trừ khi cha mẹ thực sự yêu thương con cái, bạn biết thực sự yêu thương, dành thời gian, năng lực cho chúng nói chung trẻ con, bé sơ sinh chết hay tinh thần tâm lý bị méo mó. Và chị này đã chỉ ra rằng vài cha mẹ chống lại con cái. Họ đánh đập chúng ép buộc chúng, họ làm mọi thứ với chúng. Chị nói mọi điều đó.
41:32	Q: Sir, from what you are saying, I think we might get the idea that we should love. I think most of us have the idea very strongly that we should love. And most of us are very afraid that we don’t love. Perhaps that is the barrier. K: Yes, sir. The speaker is not saying that you should love. That would be silly because it has no meaning. And because we have a feeling that we should love, we feel guilty. And being guilty, we force ourselves. Right? So, please. I hear you telling me, love is not attachment. I hear you. And because I really am in earnest, serious, I want to find out. I really want to find out. So I give attention to what you are saying. And when you say, ‘Is attachment love?’, I say, ‘Am I attached to my daughter, to my wife?’ I investigate in myself. You understand? I say, am I? And if I am not attached, will I become irresponsible? You understand? I have so far said, as long as I am attached to this person, I am responsible, I have to look after, I have to care, I have to earn money, you know, together, because I am attached to her, she is mine, I must protect her. And you are telling me, asking me: is that love? And I begin to enquire, and I say, if I am detached, will I neglect my responsibility. You understand? Will I be indifferent, will I get bored and chase another person? You follow? So I am looking at both, whether attachment is love, in attachment there is fear – I know, I feel it. In attachment I must possess, I can’t let her go, or him, because in attachment I find security. And you come and tell me, or ask me, because I am listening to you, I care for what you say, you have gone into it, you have searched out, you may be wrong, you may be right, but I want to find out. So I examine, and I say, what happens if I am not attached. I get frightened – aren’t you? I get frightened, and that very fear makes me more attached. So I have to face the fear and see if I can go into it, and see what is implied in it, then I can say, ‘Well, all right, I see the danger of attachment, but what then?’ You follow? I am not attached. Do I live in a vacuum when all people around me are attached? Am I antisocial? You understand? Go into it with me as I am doing it.	Q:Thưa, từ lời ngài tôi nghĩ có thể nắm ý là chúng ta nên yêu thương. Tôi nghĩ hầu hết có ý mạnh mẽ là chúng ta nên yêu thương. Và đa số chúng ta sợ là mình không yêu thương. Có lẽ đó là cản trở. K:Vâng. Người nói không bảo bạn nên yêu thương. Vậy thật ngốc nghếch bởi chẳng nghĩa gì. Và vì cảm thấy nên yêu thương, chúng ta cảm thấy có lỗi. Và có lỗi nên chúng ta ép mình. Phải không? Xem nào. Tôi nghe bạn nói, yêu thương không phải bám víu. Tôi nghe bạn. Và vì thực sự tha thiết, nghiêm túc, tôi muốn tìm kiếm. Tôi thực muốn tìm hiểu. Nên tôi để ý điều bạn nói. Và khi bạn nói, 'Yêu thương là bám víu ư?' Tôi nói, 'Tôi có bám víu vợ con mình không?' Tôi tìm hiểu trong tôi. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi hỏi, tôi có không? Và nếu không bám víu tôi thành vô trách nhiệm? Bạn hiểu không? Lâu nay tôi nói hễ còn bám víu người ấy tôi còn trách nhiệm tôi phải trông coi, chăm sóc, phải kiếm tiền, bạn biết mà bởi tôi bám vào cô ta, cô ấy là của tôi, tôi phải bảo vệ. Và bạn nói, hỏi tôi: đó là yêu thương ư? Và tôi bắt đầu tìm hiểu, tôi nói nếu tôi lìa bỏ tôi sẽ lơ là trách nhiệm. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi sẽ thờ ơ, sẽ phát chán và theo đuổi người khác? Theo kịp không? Nên tôi nhìn hết, xem bám víu phải là yêu thương trong bám víu có sợ hãi - tôi biết, tôi cảm thấy. Trong bám víu phải chiếm hữu, không thể để cô ta, hay hắn đi, bởi trong bám víu tôi thấy an toàn. Và bạn đến nói, hay hỏi tôi, bởi tôi nghe bạn tôi để ý điều bạn nói, bạn tìm hiểu, bạn đã tìm tòi bạn có thể sai, có thể đúng, nhưng tôi muốn tìm hiểu. Nên tôi xem xét, và nói, điều gì xảy ra nếu không bám víu. Tôi sợ - bạn không à? Tôi sợ, và chính sợ ấy làm tôi bám víu thêm. Vậy phải đối mặt sợ hãi xem có thể tìm hiểu và thấy gì ẩn trong đó, rồi tôi có thể nói 'Nào, tôi thấy nguy hiểm của bám víu, nhưng rồi sao?' Kịp không? Tôi không bám víu. Tôi sống trong khoảng không khi quanh tôi mọi người bám víu? Tôi chống xã hội? Hiểu không? Cùng tôi tìm hiểu và làm đi. Vậy tìm hiểu khi nghe bạn, tôi muốn tìm xem yêu thương là gì.
46:06	So my enquiry in listening to you is: I want to find out what love is. To me that is very important to find out, because that may solve all my problems if I know how to love. Right? It may. Everything has failed: I have tried gurus, I have tried everything, but nothing has come, nothing has resolved, nothing has created something new in my life. So I am listening to you very earnestly, carefully, with affection. So I see, I understand that love is not attachment. Understand in the sense I have seen it, not verbally, in action. I say, ‘All right, my girl, I am not attached to you’ – or boy. I am watching it – you understand? I see the danger, and therefore I am holding it. You understand? Keeping a watchful eye. Are you doing all this?	Với tôi rất quan trọng để tìm hiểu, bởi nó có thể giải quyết mọi vấn đề nếu biết làm sao yêu thương. Phải không? Có thể. Mọi việc đã thất bại: tôi đã thử đạo sư, thử mọi việc nhưng không đến đâu chẳng giải quyết gì, không gì mới xảy ra trong đời tôi. Nên tôi nghe bạn rất tha thiết, cẩn thận, với yêu mến. Nên tôi hiểu, tôi thấy yêu thương không là bám víu. Hiểu nghĩa là tôi thấy nó, trong hành động, không phải chữ. Tôi nói, 'Được rồi, tôi không bám vào em' - hay anh. Tôi nhìn nó - bạn hiểu không? Tôi thấy nguy hiểm và vì vậy tôi giữ đó. Hiểu không? Giữ con mắt quan sát. Bạn đang làm chứ?
47:24	Q: I think the true way to approach a problem is to examine what is not love.	Q:Tôi nghĩ lối tiếp cận thật là xem cái gì không là yêu thương.
47:33	K: I am doing that, sir, please. You are finding out what is not love. Attachment is not love. I have just discovered that. It is a tremendous discovery for me. Because I have so far accepted attachment as love, and you come and say, ‘Find out, look at it’. I look and I find: yes, you are perfectly right, because in attachment there is fear, and fear cannot go with love. So I have discovered this. I haven’t been told by you, it is part of my blood now. Right? Are you doing this with me? Or you are just verbally playing around.	K:Tôi đang làm thế. Bạn tìm điều gì không phải yêu thương. Bám víu không là yêu thương. Tôi vừa khám phá nó. Một khám phá lớn lao cho tôi. Bởi lâu nay tôi chấp nhận bám víu như yêu thương và bạn đến nói, 'Tìm xem, nhìn đi'. Tôi nhìn và tìm ra vâng, bạn hoàn toàn đúng vì trong bám víu có sợ, và sợ không thể đi với yêu thương. Vậy tôi khám phá nó. Tôi chưa nghe bạn nói, nó là một phần máu tôi. Phải không? Bạn đang làm với tôi chứ? Hay bạn chỉ đùa quanh chữ nghĩa.
48:38	Q: Sir, I find it a very sad thing. You are going over a very serious problem with these people. Have you ever really considered that there is a very simple statement that tells you all about love, and that is found in the Bible. And the simple statement is, that God is love.	Q:Tôi thấy đó là việc rất buồn. Ngài xem xét việc rất nghiêm túc với những người này. Ngài có thực sự để ý rằng có một câu nói rất đơn giản nói với ngài mọi thứ về yêu thương, trong Kinh thánh. Và câu đơn giản là, Thượng đế là yêu thương.
49:12	K: Madame, please.	K:Này, chị ơi.
49:13	Q: And there is no love to be found in man himself. God loves man. And man can look outwards to God, not inwards and find love.	Q:Và không có yêu thương nơi con người. Thượng đế yêu con người. Và có thể tìm yêu thương ở Thượng đế, không phải bên trong.
49:36	K: Madame, ecoutez. If you make your question very short, then it will be possible to answer it. But if you make a long speech, it is impossible to understand, even verbally.	K:Chị ơi, nghe đi. Nếu bạn hỏi thật ngắn thì có thể trả lời được. Nhưng nếu nói quá dài thì không thể hiểu, dù là chữ nghĩa.
49:57	So we are, through the negation of what is not love, finding it out. You understand? Negation: attachment is not. But with attachment I have felt responsible, but also if I am not attached, will I be irresponsible? You understand? So I have to find out in action, not just verbally. I say, I see I am attached, I see the dangers of attachment, fear, and I understand the nature of fear, and I say, all right. Now, am I responsible, being free from attachment? Is then, I am asking, is responsibility necessary to love? You understand? Through negation of attachment, of denying attachment, and I have found responsibility, and is responsibility part of this strange thing called love? You understand? Being responsible, not only to my wife, to my children, having the feeling of responsibility. You understand what I am talking about?	Vậy chúng ta qua phủ định cái gì không là yêu thương để tìm. Hiểu không? Phủ định, bám víu không phải. Nhưng với bám víu tôi thấy trách nhiệm nhưng nếu không bám víu tôi sẽ vô trách nhiệm? Hiểu không? Vậy tôi phải tìm trong hành động, không chỉ nói. Tôi nói, tôi thấy bám víu, tôi thấy nguy hiểm của bám víu sợ hãi, và tôi hiểu bản chất của sợ, và nói, được rồi. Giờ khi thoát bám víu, tôi có trách nhiệm? Tôi hỏi, phải chăng trách nhiệm cần để yêu thương? Hiểu không? Qua phủ nhận bám víu từ chối bám víu, và tôi tìm ra trách nhiệm và trách nhiệm là một phần của cái lạ lùng gọi là yêu? Hiểu không? Có trách nhiệm không chỉ với vợ, con, có cảm thấy trách nhiệm. Bạn hiểu tôi nói gì không?
51:41	Q: Is responsibility the same as an obligation?	Q:Trách nhiệm giống như nghĩa vụ sao?
51:48	K: Responsibility is not obligation. Obligation is gone. If I am obliged to you, I can’t love you. I am obliged to you because you give me money, you give me sex, you give me comfort – you know? – then where is this thing? It is a merchandise. Right?	K:Trách nhiệm không phải nghĩa vụ. Nghĩa vụ qua rồi. Nếu có nghĩa vụ với bạn, tôi không thể yêu bạn. Tôi có nghĩa vụ với bạn bởi bạn cho tôi tiền, tình dục bạn cho tôi dễ chịu - bạn biết mà - rồi vật ấy ở đâu? Đó là hàng hóa. Phải không? vậy...
52:17	Q: Sir, I think there is another danger. It is, we begin to cultivate indifference, you know, to become casual? If you see the attachment, you can begin to cultivate indifference. And that is another trap. K: Oh, yes, sir. That’s is why I am examining all the traps. So I have realised love implies responsibility. Go a little further.	Q:Tôi nghĩ có nguy hiểm khác. Đó là, chúng ta bắt đầu trau dồi thờ ơ, trở nên vô tình? Nếu ngài thấy bám víu ngài có thể bắt đầu trau dồi thờ ơ. Và đó là cái bẫy khác. K:Ồ, vâng. Đó là lý do tôi xem xét mọi thứ bẫy. Vậy tôi hiểu yêu thương hàm ý trách nhiệm. Đi thêm một chút.
53:02	Q: Which is to be able to respond.	Q:Cái nào có thể đáp ứng? K:Trách nhiệm như bạn nói
53:07	K: Responsibility, means, as you say, the word ‘responsible’ comes from ‘to respond’. Now in that responsibility, is the response sensuous, sensory – you understand? Does that responsibility contain desire – you are following all this? Please, I am talking. I am not talking to myself. We are doing it together, you and I. You and I may be all of you. So I am asking, in that responsibility, is that responsibility limited to my girl, wife, husband, or the feeling of responsibility – you understand?	chữ 'trách nhiệm' do chữ 'đáp ứng'. Giờ thì trong trách nhiệm là đáp ứng nhục dục, cảm giác - bạn hiểu chứ? Có phải trách nhiệm chứa ước muốn bạn theo kịp không? Nào, tôi đang nói. Tôi không nói với tôi. Chúng ta cùng làm, bạn và tôi. Bạn và tôi có thể là cả các bạn (cười). Vậy tôi hỏi, trong trách nhiệm, trách nhiệm có bị giới hạn với bạn gái, vợ, chồng, hay thấy trách nhiệm - hiểu không? Q:Có trung tâm từ đó trách nhiệm có mặt.
54:18	Q: There is a centre from which this responsibility comes into being.	K:Tôi xem xét nó. Tôi bám víu.
54:27	K: I examined it, sir. I am attached. In that attachment, I have felt responsible. I go out, earn a livelihood, earn money, come back, and I feel responsible for the woman, or the man. And in that responsibility, there is attachment, fear. And you point out to me, fear and love can’t go together. You see it, you are so clear. And I say, quite right. So I am saying, is responsibility just to those few, or responsible for all human beings – you understand? Is love – follow this! – is love this total feeling of responsibility?	Trong bám víu tôi cảm thấy trách nhiệm. Tôi ra ngoài, kiếm sống kiếm tiền, về và cảm thấy trách nhiệm với cô, hay anh ta. Và trong trách nhiệm ấy có bám víu, sợ hãi. Và bạn chỉ ra sợ hãi và yêu thương không thể đi chung. Tôi thấy, bạn chỉ rõ. Và tôi nói, rất đúng. Vậy tôi hỏi, trách nhiệm chỉ với vài người đó hay trách nhiệm với cả nhân loại - hiểu không? Yêu thương - theo dõi nhé - yêu thương là thấy trách nhiệm? Q:Tôi thấy nếu ngài bám vào ai đó...
55:39	Q: I see that if you are attached to somebody...	K:Trừ khi bạn trải qua trong chính mình, tìm ra, thử nghiệm.
55:44	K: Sir, unless you go through this in yourself, work it out, test it.	Q:Tôi thử nghiệm mỗi ngày và tôi nghĩ đôi khi thử quá nhiều.
55:54	Q: I test it every day, and I think I test it too much sometimes. I think that attachment, as long as I experience attachment, I am not able to be responsible to the rest of the human beings in the world.	Tôi nghĩ bám víu, hễ tôi còn kinh nghiệm bám víu, tôi không thể nào trách nhiệm với cả nhân loại trên thế giới.
56:11	K: Yes, sir. So I have gone much further in my investigation with myself. I hope you are doing the same thing. Which is, do I feel responsible not only for the few with whom I am associated, or is there the feeling of total responsibility for the earth, for the trees, for the mountains, for the water, for other human beings. You follow? Total feeling. And is that love? Don’t say, yes, or no, unless you do it.	K:Vâng. Vậy tôi đi khá xa trong tìm hiểu chính tôi. Tôi hy vọng bạn cũng làm thế. Tức là tôi có thấy trách nhiệm không chỉ với vài người liên quan hay cảm thấy toàn thể trách nhiệm với trái đất với cây cối, với núi non, sông nước, với mọi người khác. Kịp không? Toàn bộ cảm nhận. Và đó là yêu? Đừng nói phải hay không trừ khi bạn làm.
56:58	And also I find in my investigation that I like to possess. I like to belong to somebody. Don’t you know all this? Oh, for god’s... So belonging, which is to be identified with something – you understand? – identified with the nation, with the group, with a person, with an idea. So as I have lost every form of identification, I feel I must be identified. Don’t you know this? And in that identification I must possess. I can’t identify myself with the wind!	Và khi tìm hiểu tôi cũng thấy tôi thích chiếm hữu. Tôi thích thuộc về ai đó. Bạn không biết hết sao? Ồ, lạy trời... Vậy thuộc về, tức là đồng hóa với điều gì, - hiểu không? đồng hóa với đất nước, với nhóm, với người, với ý niệm. Vậy khi tôi mất mọi kiểu đồng hóa tôi thấy tôi phải đồng hóa. Bạn không biết à? Và trong đồng hóa tôi phải chiếm hữu. Tôi không thể đồng hóa với gió! Q:Chúng ta lớn lên kiểu đó, bị giáo dục.
58:08	Q: We are brought up in this way, educated.	K:Tôi biết, bạn lớn lên cách ấy.
58:10	K: I know, sir, you are brought up this way. I know, I’ve been brought up that way, I am breaking my conditioning. Q: Yes.	Tôi biết, tôi lớn lên kiểu ấy, tôi phá vỡ qui định. Q:Vâng.
58:20	K: I am breaking down what I have been brought up to.	K:Tôi bẻ gãy những gì tôi được nuôi lớn.
58:24	Q: Sometimes your conditioning is when you are able to watch it, the conditioning, you can listen. The conditioning is sometimes very strong. So you are able to watch it, you are able to be aware of it, but the conditioning is very, very strong.	Q:Đôi lúc qui định có mặt khi ngài có thể nhìn nó qui định, ngài có thể nghe. Qui định đôi lúc rất mạnh mẽ. Vậy ngài có thể nhìn nó, ngài có thể nhận thức nó nhưng qui định rất, rất mạnh mẽ.
58:43	K: Yes. I’m being aware of it. I am aware that I want to possess. And in that possession there is domination. And possession and domination, does that contain love – you understand? So I discover it does not. So I will not possess. You understand? I can’t possess, because my interest, my drive, my intensity is to find out this thing called love. So I have found attachment is not love, possession is not love, nor the instinct, which has been derived from the animal till now, to the human. The mother, and the parents saying ‘I love my baby’, and then neglect them for the rest of their life. Right? That is not love. So I have found out for myself these things are not love.	K:Vâng. Tôi biết. Tôi nhận thức rằng tôi muốn chiếm hữu. Và trong chiếm hữu có thống trị. Và chiếm hữu và thống trị, có yêu thương sao - hiểu không? Vậy tôi khám phá là không. Nên tôi không chiếm hữu. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi không thể chiếm hữu, bởi quan tâm thôi thúc, sức mạnh tôi là tìm hiểu cái gọi là yêu thương. Nên tôi thấy bám víu không là yêu thương, chiếm hữu không phải cũng không phải bản năng từ thú cho đến người hiện giờ. Mẹ, và cha mẹ nói 'Tôi yêu con tôi' và rồi lơ là chúng quãng đời còn lại. Phải không? Đó không phải yêu thương. Vậy tôi tìm ra cho mình những cái không là yêu thương.
59:56	Then I want also to enquire – I hope you are doing it together. I am not talking to myself. If I am, stop it.	Rồi tôi cũng muốn tìm kiếm - hy vọng bạn cùng làm. Tôi không nói với tôi. Nếu vậy, dừng lại.
1:00:13	Q: What about attachment to the idea of independence which is the other side of the coin? Aren’t we often attached also to the idea that we should be independent, not attached. This creates a problem also. K: Yes, sir. That means attached to the image you have about dependence. Come on, sir, this is all simple, isn’t it? So is jealousy love? You understand? Or you say, ‘No, it is not! But I am jealous!’ So my saying, it is not, has no meaning. So I have to say, ‘Why, why am I jealous?’ Go into it, look at it. Why am I jealous?	Q:Thế nào về bám víu vào ý niệm độc lập tức là mặt kia của đồng xu? Không phải chúng ta thường bám vào ý niệm là phải độc lập không bám víu. Đó cũng tạo vấn đề. K:Vâng. Đó tức là bám vào hình ảnh bạn có về lệ thuộc. Tiếp đi, nó rất đơn giản, phải không? Vậy ghen tị là yêu thương? Hiểu không? Hay bạn nói, 'Không, không phải! Nhưng tôi ghen tị!'. Vậy tôi nói không phải là vô nghĩa. Nên phải nói, 'Tại sao, tại sao tôi ghen tị?' Tìm hiểu, nhìn đi. Tại sao tôi ghen tị?
1:01:09	Q: Because I am frightened.	Q:Bởi vì tôi sợ hãi.
1:01:14	K: Because I possess. Why do I possess her or him, why do I hold on? Is it that I am lonely? You understand? Desperately, deeply lonely, separate?	K:Bởi tôi chiếm hữu. Tại sao chiếm hữu cô, hay anh ta, tại sao tôi nắm? Phải tôi cô đơn? Hiểu không? Chán nản, quá cô đơn, tách biệt? Q:Tôi nghĩ yêu thương là loại nhận thức mạnh về đời sống.
1:01:39	Q: I think love is a sort of intense perception of life. For example, now this moment, together, the sun outside, the planes in the sky, the water on the roads, the roof... the whole of life is like that – love. I think so.	Ví dụ, ngay lúc này đây, mặt trời ngoài kia máy bay trên trời, nước trên đường đi, mái nhà cả cuộc sống, như nó - yêu thương. Tôi nghĩ vậy.
1:02:00	K: You have described what love is – right?	K:Bạn diễn tả yêu thương là gì - phải không?
1:02:06	Q: An intense perception of life. Like, for example, I think love is an intense perception of life.	Q:Nhận nhức mạnh mẽ về cuộc sống. Như ví dụ... Tôi nghĩ yêu thương là nhận thức mạnh mẽ về cuộc sống.
1:02:30	K: But I haven’t got that intense perception of life.	K:Nhưng tôi chưa có nhận thức mạnh mẽ ấy.
1:02:34	Q: Like, for example, this moment, now.	Q:Như, ví dụ, lúc này, hiện giờ...
1:02:36	K: Yes, madame, I understand that, but I haven’t got it. You people just imagine this, make a statement and let it go at that. I don’t know what you mean by ‘intense perception of life’. I am caught in this thing. You are giving some description what life should be. I am not going to be caught in that trap of descriptions.	K:Vâng, chị à, tôi hiểu đó, nhưng tôi chưa có. Các bạn chỉ tưởng tượng nó, nói ra và để nó ùa vào đó. Không rõ ý bạn 'nhận thức mạnh mẽ cuộc sống' là sao. Tôi kẹt trong điều này. Bạn diễn tả cuộc sống nên là thế nào. Tôi sẽ bị kẹt trong bẫy diễn tả ấy. Vậy ghen tị là yêu thương?
1:03:13	So is jealousy love? And I am jealous, so I become aware of it. You understand? I go into it, I don’t just say, ‘Well, what am I to do, tell me’. I see jealousy is not love, and I am jealous, so I go into it, I work it out, think it out. Which means I am attached to her, or him. So I have not escaped from attachment, I have not really resolved it. So I must go into again, look at it carefully, because my intention, my whole search is to find out this perfume. So I have put that aside.	Và tôi ghen tị, tôi ý thức nó. Bạn hiểu không? Tôi tìm hiểu, không chỉ nói, 'Nào, nói đi, tôi phải làm gì.' Tôi thấy ghen tị không phải yêu thương và tôi ghen tị nên tôi tìm hiểu, tôi tìm ra, suy nghĩ ra. Tức là tôi bám vào cô, hay anh ta. Vậy tôi không chạy trốn bám víu, thực sự không giải quyết nó. Nên tôi phải tìm hiểu nữa, nhìn kỹ nó, bởi ý định tôi mọi tìm kiếm tôi là phải tìm ra hương thơm ấy. Nên tôi đã để nó sang bên.
1:04:08	Then I see that I have my ambitions, my beliefs, my dogmatism, me first and her second. Right? And she first and me second. And I say, is that love? Which means when there is separation between that and this, is that love? Sir, don’t say, no. Go into it, look at it. Because if you don’t, you will say at the end of 20 years, ‘I have done nothing’. At the end of ten years you will say, ‘You have talked enough, get away from here. Stop talking’. Because you don’t apply.	Rồi tôi thấy tôi có tham vọng niềm tin, giáo điều, tôi trước và cô ta sau. Phải không? Và cô ta trước và tôi sau. Và tôi hỏi, đó là yêu thương? Tức là khi có phân chia cái này cái nọ, đó là yêu thương? Đừng nói không. Tìm hiểu đi, nhìn nó. Bởi nếu không sau 20 năm, bạn sẽ nói, 'Tôi không làm gì hết'. Sau mười năm bạn sẽ nói 'Ngài nói đủ rồi, đi khỏi đây đi. Đừng nói nữa'. Bởi vì bạn không áp dụng.
1:05:13	Q: This is the only difficulty: we don’t apply.	Q:Đây là khó khăn duy nhất: chúng ta không áp dụng.
1:05:16	K: Apply. I am doing it now for you.	K:Áp dụng đi.Tôi đang làm vì bạn.
1:05:19	Q: But I have the intention to apply myself, but there is something else that I don’t know that prevents me to deeply see all these things, and not intellectually only.	Q:Tuy tôi có ý định áp dụng nhưng có điều gì khác tôi không biết ngăn cản tôi thấy sâu sắc mọi điều này và không chỉ trí óc.
1:05:30	K: Then find out what is impeding you. Go into it. Don’t say, ‘I don’t know’, and then give it up. Find out what is the barrier. Is it laziness, is it acceptance of things as they are, not to be disturbed? Sir, go into it, sir. Test it out. Break down, cry, do something to find out. At the end of it don’t say, ‘I have listened to you for 20 years or 52 years, and I haven’t changed’. It is not my fault, it is your fault. Don’t put the blame on me.	K:Tìm xem điều gì ngăn cản bạn. Tìm đi. Đừng nói, 'Tôi không biết', và rồi bỏ đi. Tìm xem cái gì chắn ngang. Lười biếng, chấp nhận sự viêc như vậy, để không bị phiền rầy? Nào, tìm đi. Thử nghiệm xem. Phá vỡ, la lên, làm gì đó để tìm ra. Đến cuối cùng đừng nói, 'Tôi nghe ngài đã 20 năm hay 52 năm, và tôi chưa thay đổi'. Không phải lỗi tôi, lỗi bạn đó. Đừng trách móc tôi.
1:06:25	Q: Sir... K: Just a minute, sir. I know, sir. I am answering your question, sir. So I have discovered attachment in any form is not love. Jealousy is not love. Possession is not love, me and her, fulfilling my desires in her, or she in me. So desire – go into it carefully – desire is not love. Right? You don’t accept it, you won’t see this. Desire, sexual desires, desire for comfort, desire for various forms of encouragement, you know – desire. Is desire love? Don’t say, no. Because I am desiring that woman, or that man; I desire to be a big politician, or a guru, or I desire enlightenment. I desire to become better. I desire to overcome this, enter into something else. All this movement of desire, the becoming, the fulfilling, is that love?	Q:Thưa... K:Đợi chút đã. Tôi biết. Tôi đang trả lời câu hỏi bạn. Vậy tôi khám phá bám víu kiểu nào cũng không là yêu thương. Ghen tị không phải yêu thương. Chiếm hữu không phải yêu thương, tôi và cô ta thoả mãn ước muốn trong cô ta, hay cô ta trong tôi. Vậy ước muốn - tìm kỹ nhé - không là yêu thương. Phải không? Bạn không chấp nhận, bạn không thấy. Ước muốn, ước muốn tình dục, ước muốn dễ chịu ước muốn nhiều loại khích lệ, bạn biết mà - ước muốn. Muốn là yêu thương? Đừng nói không. Bởi tôi muốn nàng kia, hay chàng nọ; tôi muốn là chính trị gia lớn, hay đạo sư, hay tôi muốn tỏ ngộ. Tôi muốn trở nên tốt hơn. Tôi muốn vượt qua việc này, vào việc khác. Mọi chuyển động ước muốn, trở thành, thoả mãn, là yêu thương?
1:08:20	Q: So what shall we do with it? K: I am telling you, sir. Look at it, investigate desire. Desire. Why is the mind, which is the result of the senses – you follow? You understand this? – the senses, so the response of the senses with its desires, is that love?	Q:Vậy chúng ta sẽ làm gì với nó? K:Tôi đang nói đây. Nhìn nó, tìm hiểu ước muốn. Ước muốn. Tại sao trí óc, là kết quả của giác quan - kịp không? bạn hiểu nó chứ? - giác quan vậy đáp ứng của giác quan với ước muốn, là yêu thương?
1:09:00	You follow? Please follow all this. I am investigating all this, so that towards the end I begin to see that everything that thought has created or desired around this word is not love. Right? And in the perception of that intelligence is taking place. Right? Right, sir?	Kịp không? Theo dõi hết đi. Tôi tìm hiểu tất cả đến cuối cùng tôi bắt đầu thấy mọi việc suy nghĩ tạo ra hay muốn, quanh chữ ấy, không phải yêu thương. Phải không? Và khi nhận thức điều đó là có thông minh. Phải không? Phải không?
1:09:33	Q: Is love the same as understanding?	Q:Yêu thương giống như thấu hiểu sao? K:Không.
1:09:37	K: No, sir. Love is not the same as understanding. Love is something totally different. You see, I am describing it and you... I can use a Greek word ‘agape’, or French word or Sanskrit word, but it won’t convey the thing. The description in Sanskrit I can tell you – it won’t. Or in Italian, or French, it is not that. So please, sir, do it.	Yêu thương không như thấu hiểu. Yêu thương là điều hoàn toàn khác. Bạn thấy tôi diễn tả nó và bạn... Tôi có thể dùng chữ Hy lạp 'agape' hay Pháp hay Phạn, nhưng cũng không truyền đạt sự việc. Diễn tả bằng chữ Phạn có thể nói bạn nghe - cũng không. Hay Ý, hay Pháp, đều không là nó. Vậy thì, hãy làm đi.
1:10:17	Q: Sir, you talk about love.	Q:Ngài nói về yêu thương. K:Tôi không nói về yêu thương.
1:10:22	K: I don’t talk about love. I am talking about the barriers, the things that prevent this thing taking place.	Tôi nói về cản trở điều gì ngăn cản việc đó xảy ra. Q:À, tôi đóng kín nó. K:Bạn nói với tôi thế.
1:10:40	Q: Well, I am blocking it. K: You told me that, sir.	Q:Tôi sẽ làm gì? Tức là tôi muốn yêu thương.
1:10:44	Q: What shall I do? I mean, I want to love.	K:Bạn không thể... cái gì ... 'Tôi muốn yêu thương.'
1:10:49	K: You can’t... that’s what ‘I want to love’. The very desire to want to love is the denial of love.	Chính ước muốn yêu thương chối bỏ yêu thương.
1:10:58	Q: So how shall I get rid of that desire?	Q:Vậy làm sao tôi lìa bỏ ước muốn?
1:11:00	K: I am not saying you should get rid of anything. I am just pointing out how to investigate desire, to look at it. All right, I will show it to you, sir. I have desire. I desire that woman, or that man, I desire to become something, I desire to be very healthy, I desire a better life, more money – I desire. And what is this constant urge – right? – for nirvana, for enlightenment, for better life, what is this desire? Please, I am not talking to myself. I can do this anywhere.	K:Tôi không nói bạn nên lìa bỏ điều gì. Tôi chỉ vạch ra làm sao tìm hiểu ước muốn, nhìn nó. Được rồi, tôi sẽ chỉ cho bạn. Tôi có ước muốn. Tôi muốn nàng kia, hay chàng nọ, tôi muốn thành gì đó, tôi muốn khỏe mạnh, tôi muốn sống tốt hơn, nhiều tiền - muốn. Và thôi thúc triền miên ấy là gì - phải không? vì niết bàn, tỏ ngộ, sống tốt hơn, ước muốn ấy là gì? Tôi không nói với tôi. Tôi có thể làm vậy nơi khác.
1:12:00	Q: Sir, in order for the desire to accomplish and transform into the passion to investigate, something has to take place.	Q:Thưa, để cho ước muốn đạt được và chuyển hoá thành nhiệt tình để tìm hiểu, điều gì phải xảy ra.
1:12:12	K: Yes, sir, desire for something. Desire cannot be transmuted into something else, it has to be understood. It has to be exposed to the light of investigation.	K:Vâng, muốn điều gì. Ước muốn không thể biến thành gì khác, phải thấu hiểu nó. Nó phải được phơi ra ánh sáng của tìm kiếm.
1:12:35	Q: How do you expose it?	Q:Làm sao ngài phơi nó ra?
1:12:36	K: I am doing it, sir, I am doing it. I went into this carefully the other day, what is the movement of desire. The response of the senses. Right? The response, I see something: a blue shirt, I want that blue shirt. The response of... seeing, the response, contact, sensation, then thought comes in and says, ‘I would like to have that shirt’. So thought, when it takes over, the response of the senses creates desire. Watch it. Test it out.	K:Tôi đang làm đây, tôi đang làm. Tôi đã tìm hiểu kỹ hôm nọ, chuyển động của ước muốn là gì. Đáp ứng của giác quan. Phải không? Đáp ứng, tôi thấy gì đó, áo màu xanh, tôi muốn áo xanh ấy. Đáp ứng của thấy, đáp ứng, sờ, cảm giác rồi suy nghĩ vào và nói, 'Tôi muốn có chiếc áo ấy'. Vậy suy nghĩ khi nắm đáp ứng của giác quan liền tạo ước muốn. Nhìn đi. Thử xem.
1:13:42	Q: I want the attention that you have, sir. I see that desire.	Q:Tôi muốn chú tâm mà ngài có. Tôi thấy ước muốn ấy. K:Tôi đã rời nó: tôi thấy yêu thương không phải ước muốn.
1:13:49	K: So I am left with this, sir: I see love is not desire. It is a great thing to find out for oneself, and if love is not desire, then what is love? You understand? Love is not mere attachment to the baby, love is not attachment to any form, love is not jealousy, love is not me and my ambition, my fulfilment, my becoming, and you also becoming, this constant division, that is not love, nor desire, nor pleasure. Right? The fulfilment of desire, which is pleasure, that is not love. So I have found out what love is. It is none of these things. And have I understood these elements, and am free of them? Or just say, ‘Well, I understand intellectually, I understand verbally, but help me to go deeper’, I can’t. You have to do it yourself.	Đó là việc lớn để tìm ra cho mình và nếu yêu thương không là ước muốn thì nó là gì? Bạn hiểu không? Yêu thương không chỉ là bám vào người yêu yêu không phải bám vào hình thức nào, không phải ghen tị yêu thương không là tôi và tham vọng, thoả mãn, trở thành và bạn cũng trở thành, phân chia triền miên đó không phải yêu, muốn và thú vui cũng không. Phải không? Thoả mãn ước muốn, là thú vui, không phải yêu thương. Vậy tôi đã tìm ra yêu thương là gì. Nó không phải mấy thứ này. Và tôi có hiểu các yếu tố này và thoát chúng không? Hay chỉ nói, 'À, tôi hiểu bằng trí hiểu bằng lời, nhưng giúp tôi đi sâu hơn', tôi không thể. Chính bạn phải làm. Q:Làm sao làm đây?
1:15:21	Q: How to do it, sir? K: I am doing it, sir. Sit down, sir, please. Q: I am prepared to stand.	K:Tôi đang làm đó. Hãy ngồi xuống đi.
1:15:28	K: All right, sir. Sit on there, sir.	Q:Tôi chuẩn bị để đứng. K:Được thôi.
1:15:29	Q:Thank you.	Ngồi lên kia đi. Q:Cảm ơn. K:Vậy trong tìm hiểu
1:15:37	K: So in this investigation, in examining all these things quite impersonally, objectively as they are, I have got that quality of intelligence now. You understand? It is born out of this investigation, it is born out of this seeing the truth of each thing. Right? And therefore out of that there is intelligence.	xem xét mọi việc này hoàn toàn không cá nhân khách quan như nó vậy, tôi liền có đặc tính thông minh kia. Bạn hiểu không? Nó do tìm hiểu ấy nó do thấy sự thật của mỗi việc. Phải không? Và vì thế từ đó có thông minh.
1:16:02	So I am asking: is this intelligence necessary for love? I am using the word ‘intelligence’, not intellect, the cunning, twisting subtleties of the intellect, the verbal play, but totally different. The seeing and the doing; the seeing attachment is dangerous, and the doing of it, which is the ending of it, that is intelligence. So there is intelligence and therefore it is love, that quality of love, which is compassion. Not compassion as an idea. A thing that is in one’s heart, burning, alive. And compassion, love and intelligence go together. Without intelligence you can’t have compassion, this intelligence of which I am talking.	Vậy tôi hỏi: thông minh ấy có cần cho yêu thương? Tôi dùng chữ 'thông minh', không trí óc, lanh xảo, vặn vẹo tinh tế của trí, chơi chữ, mà hoàn toàn khác. Thấy là làm; thấy bám víu nguy hiểm và làm, nghĩa là chấm dứt nó, đó là thông minh. Vậy có thông minh và vì vậy nó là yêu thương đặc tính của yêu thương, là tình thương. Không tình thương như ý niệm. Nó trong tim bạn, bừng cháy, sống động. Và tình thương, yêu thương và thông minh đi chung. Không có thông minh bạn không thể có tình thương tôi đang nói về thông minh ấy.
1:17:17	Now, we have talked for an hour and 27 minutes, have you tested it out? Have you freed yourself from this attachment and therefore total feeling of immense responsibility? Or will you say the day after tomorrow, ‘I’ve listened to you, nothing has happened’? That very statement indicates that you have not investigated yourself, gone into yourself. You expect somebody to do something to you.	Chúng ta đã nói một giờ 27 phút, bạn thử nghiệm chưa? Bạn có thoát mình khỏi bạm víu và vì thế cảm thấy trách nhiệm bao la? Hay ngày mốt bạn sẽ nói 'Tôi đã nghe ngài, chẳng có gì xảy ra'? Chính câu nói ấy chỉ ra bạn chưa tìm hiểu chính mình, tìm học chính mình. Bạn trông chờ ai đó làm điều gì cho bạn.
1:18:22	Q: Krishnaji, that may not be quite fair. I have listened to what you are saying and feel now I want to try and test it out.	Q:Krishnaji, vậy có thể không tốt. Tôi đã nghe lời ngài nói và thấy giờ muốn thử và nghiệm xem.
1:18:30	K: Test it out. No, do it as we are talking, don’t wait till the day after tomorrow.	K:Thử đi. Không, làm đi khi chúng ta đang nói, đừng đợi đến ngày mốt.
1:18:39	Q: Sir, as I reject every attachment or desire, I feel tremendously empty in myself, so I can’t see intelligence.	Q:Khi tôi ném bỏ mọi bám víu, hay ước muốn tôi thấy mình quá trống rỗng, mà chưa thể thấy thông minh.
1:18:49	K: Sir, emptiness, what does that mean? Lonely, separate, isolated, a sense of being cut off, not having any kind of relationship with another, is it the result of drugs, is it the result of various forms of marijuana, grass, speed, and all the rest of it? And also is it the result of your vows, your meditation, your acceptance of authority? You follow? Made you the sense of absolutely worthless, empty, lonely. So at the end of an hour and a half nearly, have you got this quality of love and compassion? If not, let us tomorrow talk about it, investigate it, go into it much more deeply. But don’t say ever, ‘I have listened for so long and I haven’t got it’. You can listen to that river endlessly, but the waters are not what you listen to.	K:Trống rỗng, nghĩa là sao? Cô đơn, tách biệt, cô lập, cảm giác bị cắt rời không có loại quan hệ nào với ai khác là kết quả của ma tuý là kết quả của nhiều loại cần sa, ma túy tổng hợp, và mọi thứ khác? Và cũng là kết quả của thề nguyền thiền định, chấp nhận uy quyền? Theo nhé - làm bạn cảm giác thật vô dụng, trống rỗng, cô đơn. Vậy cuối gần hết một giờ rưỡi bạn có đặc tính của tình thương chưa? Nếu chưa ngày mai sẽ nói tiếp tìm hiểu, tìm kiếm nó sâu hơn. Nhưng đừng bao giờ nói, 'Tôi nghe đã lâu mà chưa được gì'. Bạn có thể nghe dòng sông bất tận kia nhưng cái bạn nghe không phải nước.