Krishnamurti_VI

Krishnamurti Subtitles

Vấn đề cơ bản của đời sống là gì?

Saanen - 28 July 1979

Public Discussion 4

0:47	Krishnamurti: We are still	K:Chúng ta vẫn tiếp tục đối thoại.
	continuing with our dialogues.

0:55	Unfortunately it seems to me	Thật không may, dường như tôi nói gần hết thời gian...
	that I am talking most of the time,

1:02	that you are not sharing,	...mà bạn không chia sẻ, hay nói chuyện với người nói.

1:04	or having a conversation
	with the speaker.

1:15	If I may, I would like	Nếu được, xin đề nghị một việc: chúng ta đã nói về thiền...
	to suggest something:

1:22	we’ve been talking about
	meditation, love, thought,

1:38	and other things,	...yêu thương, suy nghĩ và nhiều việc nữa, nhưng hình như...

1:40	but it seems to me that we are
	not talking about our daily life,

1:52	our relationship with others,	...không nói về đời sống hàng ngày, quan hệ với người khác...
	our relationship to the world,

2:02	our relationship	...quan hệ với thế giới, quan hệ với toàn thể nhân loại.
	to the whole of humanity.

2:10	And we seem to be wandering away	Và có vẻ lúc nào chúng ta cũng rời khỏi vấn đề chính...
	from the central issue all the time,

2:18	which is our daily life,	...tức là sống hàng ngày, lối sống, và chúng ta có...

2:22	the way we live,

2:26	and if we are at all	...ý thức đầy đủ sự rối loạn hàng ngày, bất an hàng ngày...
	aware of our daily turmoil,

2:34	daily anxieties, daily insecurity,
	daily depressions,

2:45	the constant demand	...chán nản hàng ngày, luôn đòi hỏi của sống hàng ngày.
	of our daily existence.

2:50	Shouldn’t we,	Tôi chỉ hỏi, nên hay không...
	I am just asking,

2:54	be concerned with that	...quan tâm đến nó sáng nay hay sáng mai, và...
	this morning and tomorrow morning,

3:00	and not go off into all kinds of	...không lạc vào mọi thứ mơ hồ, duy tâm, theo đuổi lý thuyết?

3:05	vague, idealistic,
	theoretical pursuits?

3:11	Could we, I am just asking,	Có thể nào, tôi hỏi thôi, có thể bạn không thích...
	– perhaps you would not like that –

3:16	I am just asking	...tôi chỉ hỏi xem sáng nay có nên chăng cùng thảo luận về...

3:18	whether we could not this morning
	talk over together, as friends,

3:26	about our daily life,	...cuộc sống hàng ngày, như hai người bạn, ăn gì, làm gì...

3:31	what we do, what we eat,

3:37	what our relationships are,	...quan hệ ra sao, tại sao quá chán nản cuộc sống...

3:43	why we get so bored
	with our existence,

3:48	why our minds are so mechanical,	...tại sao trí óc quá máy móc, v.v.., sống hàng ngày.
	and so on, our daily existence.

3:54	Could we talk about that?	Có thể nói về nó chứ? Và chỉ nói việc đó thôi.
	And restrict ourselves to that only.

4:01	Could we?	Thế nào?
	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.

4:04	K: At last!	K:Sau cùng! (Cười)

4:20	What is our daily life,	Sống hàng ngày là gì, bạn có ý thức nó?
	if you are aware of it?

4:27	Not escape into some fantasies,	Không trốn vào tưởng tượng, dẹp hết, sống hàng ngày là gì?
	cut all that out,

4:32	what is our daily life?

4:37	Getting up,	Thức dậy, thể dục nếu bạn muốn, ăn...

4:39	exercise if you are inclined,
	eating,

4:42	going off to the office, or to the	...đến văn phòng, hay nhà máy, hay công việc này khác...
	factory, or some business or other,

4:51	and our ambitions, fulfilments,	...và tham vọng, thoả mãn, quan hệ với người khác...

4:59	our relationship with another,
	intimate or not intimate,

5:04	sexual or not sexual, and so on.	...thân hay sơ, tình dục hay không tình dục, v.v..

5:08	What is the central	Vấn đề cơ bản của sống là gì?
	issue of our life?

5:23	Is it money?	Tiền bạc à?

5:25	Central issue,	Vấn đề cơ bản, không phải bên ngoài...
	not the peripheral issues,

5:29	not the superficial issues,	...không phải hời hợt, mà là đòi hỏi sâu thẳm.

5:33	but the deep demand.

5:39	Please, look at it yourself.	Hãy nhìn vào chính bạn.

5:42	What is it we demand,	Chúng ta đòi hỏi, muốn gì?
	we ask?

5:47	Is it we want money?	Phải chúng ta muốn tiền?
		Q:Không.

5:49	Q: No.

5:52	K: Don’t say no,	K:Đừng nói không, chúng ta cần tiền.
	we need money.

5:56	Is money the central issue?	Tiền bạc là vấn đề chủ yếu?

6:07	Or to have a position?	Hay có địa vị?

6:11	You understand?	Bạn hiểu không?

6:15	To be secure, financially,	Được an toàn, về tài chánh, tâm lý...
	psychologically,

6:25	to be completely certain,	...hoàn toàn an ổn, không rối loạn?
	unconfused?

6:34	What is the main urge,	Thôi thúc, muốn, đòi hỏi chính của sống là gì?

6:42	demand, desire of our life?

6:46	I wish you would…	Tôi muốn bạn là... Phải không?
	Right?

6:56	Go on, sirs.	Tiếp đi.

6:58	Q: Joy of work.	Q:Vui vẻ làm việc.
		K:Vui vẻ làm việc.

7:08	K: Joy of work.

7:13	Would you say that to the man	Bạn nói rằng với người cầm tuộc víc vặn hàng ngày...

7:15	who is turning the screw
	day after day,

7:17	day after day, day after day,	...mỗi ngày, ngày qua ngày, trên dãy băng - vui làm việc?

7:20	on a moving belt

7:23	– joy of work?

7:29	Or to a man that has to go	Hay với người phải đến văn phòng mỗi sáng...
	to the office every morning,

7:36	be told what to do, typing,	...được bảo phải làm gì, đánh máy, hàng ngày cả đời?
	every day of one’s life?

7:43	Please, face it.	Hãy giáp mặt đi.

7:47	That is what we are asking:	Chúng ta hỏi đó: là tiền?
	is it money?

7:52	Is it security?	An toàn?

7:54	Is it lack of work?	Thất nghiệp?

7:57	And having work,	Và có việc làm, rồi công việc tẻ nhạt, ngán ngẩm...

7:59	then the routine of work,
	the boredom of it,

8:05	and the escape from it through	...và chạy trốn nó qua giải trí, hộp đêm, nhạc jazz...
	entertainment, night clubs, jazz

8:12	– you follow? – anything away	...theo kịp không? - gì đó trốn cuộc sống chính.
	from our central existence.

8:20	Because the world	Bởi thế giới - tôi không thuyết giảng, bạn phải biết hết...

8:23	– I am not preaching,
	you must know all this –

8:26	the world is	...thế giới trong tình trạng ghê gớm.
	in a horrible condition.

8:32	You must know all this.	Bạn phải biết hết.

8:38	So as fairly intelligent,	Vậy như những người khá thông minh, nghiêm túc...
	serious human beings,

8:46	what is our relationship	...chúng ta quan hệ gì với mọi cái đó?
	to all that?

8:51	The moral deterioration,	Suy đồi đạo đức, trí không thành thật...
	the intellectual dishonesty,

9:01	the class prejudices, and so on.	...định kiến giai cấp, v.v..
	You know all this.

9:05	The mess that the politicians	Bạn biết cả.
	are making,

9:10	the endless preparation for war.	Lộn xộn các chính trị gia tạo ra, luôn chuẩn bị chiến tranh.

9:14	What is our relationship	Chúng ta quan hệ gì với mọi cái đó?
	to all that?

9:23	Please, let’s have	Hãy đối thoại đi, trò chuyện đi.
	a dialogue about it, a conversation.

9:29	You see, when we come to that point,	Bạn thấy khi đến điểm này chúng ta đều im lặng.
	we are all silent.

9:34	Q: We are all part of it.	Q:Chúng ta là một phần nó.
		K:Chúng ta là một phần nó.

9:43	K: We are all part of it.	Hoàn toàn đồng ý.
	I quite agree.

9:50	Do we know we are part of it?	Chúng ta có biết mình là một phần nó?

9:53	Aware of it,	Ý thức nó, sống hàng ngày...

9:58	that our daily life
	– you understand? – daily life,

10:05	contributes to all this?	...hiểu không? - sống hàng ngày, góp phần vào mọi cái đó?

10:08	And if it does,	Và nếu vậy, chúng ta sẽ làm gì?
	what shall we do?

10:19	Take drugs?	Dùng ma tuý?

10:23	Get drunk?	Uống rượu?

10:28	Join some community?	Nhập vào nhóm nào?

10:35	Go off to a monastery?	Vào tu viện?

10:39	Or put on yellow, purple,	Hay khoát lên áo vàng, áo tía?
	bright colours?

10:44	Would that solve all this?	Đó giải quyết hết không?

10:48	So please, I would like to discuss.	Nào, tôi muốn thảo luận.

10:52	What shall we do?	Chúng ta sẽ làm gì?
	What is our daily life,

10:56	of which the society is made,	Sống hàng ngày là gì, là cái xã hội tạo, chính trị gia...

11:00	the politicians are
	thoughtlessly using us

11:06	for their own power,	...vô tư dùng chúng ta cho quyền lực riêng, địa vị riêng?
	for their own position?

11:14	So being aware of all this,	Vậy ý thức hết, chúng ta quan hệ gì với nó...

11:18	what is our relationship to that,

11:22	and what is our life,	...và cuộc sống mình là gì, dĩ nhiên góp phần vào đó?

11:28	which obviously is
	contributing to that?

11:33	Right?	Phải không?

11:37	Am I saying something	Tôi nói điều gì vô lý sao?
	extravagant?

11:51	Q: We would like to change it,	Q:Muốn thay đổi nó nhưng không biết làm sao.
	but we don’t know how.

11:54	K: We’d like to change it,	K:Muốn thay đổi nó nhưng không biết làm sao.
	but we don’t know how.

12:00	What is the ‘it’?	'Nó' là gì?

12:03	Q: The way of living	Q:Lối sống chúng ta hiện giờ.
	as we do now.

12:10	K: The way we are living now,	K:Lối sống chúng ta hiện giờ, không biết làm sao thay đổi.
	we don’t know how to change it.

12:16	Therefore we accept it.	Nên chúng ta chấp nhận.

12:20	Right?	Phải không?

12:22	Why is it that we can’t change it?	Tại sao không thay đổi nó?

12:27	Q: Perhaps we wait	Q:Có lẽ chúng ta đợi ai đó nói gì.
	for someone else to tell us.

12:32	K: Are you waiting	K:Bạn đợi điều kỳ diệu xảy ra ư?
	for some miracle to happen?

12:37	Are we waiting for some authority	Chúng ta đợi uy quyền nào đó bảo phải làm gì?
	to tell us what to do?

12:42	The priest, the guru,	Giáo sĩ, đạo sư, mọi thủ đoạn ấy?
	the whole racket of that?

12:47	Or go back to the Bible?	Hay quay lại với Kinh thánh?

12:52	There are people are doing it;	Người ta làm thế; kẻ gọi là trí thức, viết gì đó chống...

12:54	the so-called intellectuals,

12:57	having written something anti–
	or pro-communism, totalitarianism,

13:05	are going back to God.	...- hay theo cộng sản, chế độ chuyên chế, về với Thượng đế.

13:09	You follow?	Theo kịp không?

13:11	Because they can’t find	Bởi không thể tìm ra câu trả lời cho tất cả...
	an answer to all this,

13:16	and they think through tradition	...và họ nghĩ nó sẽ được giải quyết nhờ truyền thống.
	it will all be solved.

13:23	You know all this.	Bạn biết hết mà.

13:26	Now, why can’t we in our daily life	Sao không thể thay đổi việc mình làm trong sống hàng ngày?
	change what we are doing?

13:36	That’s why… Let’s come back:	Đó là lý do... Hãy quay lại: sống hàng ngày là gì?
	what is our daily life?

13:43	Please, investigate,	Hãy tìm hiểu, là trò chuyện, không phải chỉ tôi nói.
	this is a conversation,

13:46	I am not the only speaker.

13:51	Q: It’s not only contribution but	Q:Nó không chỉ góp phần mà còn chạy trốn vào góp phần.
	also escape into the contribution.

13:57	K: Beg your pardon?	K:Xin lỗi, gì nào?

13:58	Q: It is not only	Q:Không chỉ chúng ta góp phần...
	we are contributing,

14:00	but also we are escaping	...mà còn chạy trốn vào cái chúng ta góp phần.
	into what we contribute.

14:04	K: Yes.	K:Vâng. Vậy tôi quay lại, chị à.
	So I am going back, madame.

14:07	I am asking,
	if we are part of this society,

14:13	and society is becoming	Tôi hỏi nếu chúng ta là thành phần của xã hội, và xã hội...
	more and more horrible,

14:18	more and more intolerable,	...trở nên ngày càng đáng sợ, càng không chịu nổi, xấu xa...
	ugly, destructive, degenerating,

14:27	as a human being,	...phá hoại, suy đồi, là con người, bạn cũng xa đọa?
	is one also deteriorating?

14:32	You follow?	Theo kịp không?

14:38	Q: I think we don’t see it,	Q:Tôi nghĩ chúng ta không thấy mình là thành phần.
	that we are part of it.

14:43	K: The lady says,	K:Chị nói, chúng ta không thấy thế.
	we don’t see it.

14:46	Why?	Tại sao?

14:50	Don’t we know our own daily life?	Chúng ta không biết sống hàng ngày của mình ư?

14:58	How am I to...?	K:Tôi thế nào...?

15:00	Q: Yes, because our daily life is	Q:Vâng, bởi sống hàng ngày là một loại hoạt động vị ngã.
	a kind of self-centred activity.

15:10		K:Tôi biết.

15:11	K: I know. Our inner life, our life	Bên trong, cuộc sống là hoạt động vị ngã, anh nói.
	is self-centred activity, he says.

15:18	And if that is so,	Và nếu vậy thì...

15:20	and if that is contributing	...và nếu nó góp phần vào xã hội kinh khủng chúng ta sống...

15:23	to the monstrous society
	in which we live,

15:29	why can’t we change that	...tại sao không thể thay đổi hoạt động vị kỷ ấy - phải không?
	central activity, egotistic activity

15:37	– right?	Tại sao không thể?

15:38	Why can’t we?

15:40	Q: Too often, we are unconscious	Q:Thường thì, chúng ta là kẻ vô thức dự vào cuộc sống riêng.
	participants in our own lives.

15:45	Until we become conscious	Đến khi ý thức mọi việc mình làm thì không thể thay đổi nó.
	of everything that we are doing

15:48	we can’t change it.
	K: I understand.

15:50	That is what I am asking, sir:	K:Tôi hiểu.

15:53	can we become conscious, aware,	Thế nên tôi hỏi: chúng ta có thể ý thức...

15:56	know the activities of our	...nhận thức, biết hoạt động hàng ngày, việc mình làm?
	daily life, what we are doing?

16:04	Q: Being a mother, and having	Q:Làm mẹ, có con cái, thật là khó khăn.
	children, it is very difficult.

16:26	K: All right.	K:Đúng thôi.

16:28	Being a mother and having children,	Làm mẹ và có con cái là cuộc sống rất khó khăn.
	it is a very difficult life.

16:35	Right?	Phải không?

16:36	Is that one of our problems?	Là một trong những vấn đề?

16:40	You see, come and join	Bạn xem, vào và gia nhập cuộc chơi, đừng chỉ...
	in the game, sir, don’t just...

16:48	I am a mother.	Tôi làm mẹ.

16:52	I have children,	Tôi có con, và chúng lớn lên thành quái vật...

16:56	and are they growing up
	into monsters

16:59	like the rest of the world?	...như cả thế giới?

17:02	You understand?	Bạn hiểu không?

17:05	Like all the rest of you?	Như tất cả bạn? (Cười)

17:10	Ugly, violent,	Xấu xa, bạo lực, vị kỷ, hám lợi, bạn biết, chúng ta đó.
	self-centred, acquisitive

17:16	– you know, what we are.

17:20	Do I want my children	Tôi muốn con tôi giống vậy không?
	to be like that?

17:22	Q: In big cities	Q:Trong thành phố lớn dơ bẩn và ngài không thể cô lập...
	there is contamination,

17:30	and you cannot isolate children	...con trẻ bởi vì ngài hiện đang sống ở đó.

17:34	because that’s where	Ngài phải đối mặt việc đang ở đó và không thể thay đổi...
	you are living in the moment.

17:36	You have to face that you are there	(Không nghe)
	in the moment and you cannot change.

17:51	K: I know all that, sir,	K:Tôi biết cả, tôi biết thế.
	I know all that.

17:56	Q: Krishnamurti, please try perhaps	Q:Krishnamurti, có thể hãy cố làm ngắn gọn sự phủ nhận...

18:00	to short circuit the negation
	of our past conditioning,

18:05	which we should know in its entirety	...qui định cũ mà chúng ta nên biết đầy đủ ngay, không...
	by now, not fragmentarily,

18:10	and think how in our everyday lives,	...từng mảnh, và nghĩ xem làm sao trong sống hàng ngày...

18:13	each one of us can put a sort	...mỗi người có thể có tình thương bao quát đến mọi người...
	of universal love into service

18:18	without any motives	...mà không có lý do.
	to our fellow human beings.

18:33	Q: I would say,	Q:Tôi nói việc ấy không thể trong thành phố lớn nơi bạn...
	it is not just in the big cities

18:36	that you have this problem of
	pollution of minds and conditioning,

18:41	but all over.	...có vấn đề ô nhiễm trí óc và qui định, khắp tất cả.

18:43	I think my problem, because I have	Tôi nghĩ vấn đề là, bởi tôi có vấn đề với con cái.
	this problem with my children...

18:49	For me it seems that I have to wake	Với tôi dường như tôi phải đánh thức phẩm chất sống...
	up to the quality of my existence

18:55	in relationship with my children	...trong quan hệ với con cái và với mọi thứ xung quanh.
	and everything around me.

18:58	This seems to be my problem,	Đây như là vấn đề của tôi, không phải điều kiện bên ngoài.
	not the outside conditions.

19:11	K: What shall we do together?	K:Chúng ta sẽ cùng làm gì?

19:17	Q: Can we look at fear?	Q:Chúng ta có thể nhìn sợ hãi?
		K:Có thể nhìn sợ hãi.

19:20	K: We can look at fear.

19:36	Sir, if you loved your children,	Nếu bạn yêu con cái, yêu thương chúng - hiểu không?
	loved them – you understand? –

19:42	not just born, they are born,	...không chỉ sinh, sinh chúng ra...

19:46	they are sent off to school,	...gửi chúng đến trường, phải qui định chúng lối đó, phải...

19:50	they must be conditioned this way,
	they must pass…

19:54	If you really loved them,	...thi cử... Nếu bạn thực sự yêu chúng, chúng ta sẽ làm gì?
	what shall we do?

19:59	Apparently it is	Hình như không phải vấn đề với bạn.
	not a problem to you.

20:02	You talk about it,	Bạn nói, nhưng không là vấn đề nhức nhối, đòi hỏi, khẩn cấp.

20:05	but it isn’t a biting,
	demanding, urgent problem.

20:16	Q: Sir, it seems that society	Q:Hình như xã hội chỉ tranh đấu về mặt...
	is battling in one respect

20:21	to go to work every day,	...đi làm mỗi ngày, đa số người chỉ đi làm...
	most people just go to work,

20:24	and they don’t carry on	...và họ không tiếp tục khi rời công việc.
	when they get out of work.

20:28	In other words, there is no blending	Nói cách khác không xen lẫn công việc và giải trí.
	of their work and their recreation.

20:32	In other words, they go to work,	Nói cách khác, họ đi làm, nó là luôn học hỏi...
	it is learning all the time,

20:36	and when the bell rings and you are	...và khi chuông reo và bảo ra về, bạn có thể vẫn học.
	told to leave, you can still learn.

20:41	You may adapt your job	Bạn có thể thích nghi công việc với giải trí...
	to your recreation,

20:44	you can adapt your	...bạn có thể thích ứng giải trí với việc làm, nhưng...
	recreation to your job,

20:47	but there is always	...tiến trình học vẫn tiếp tục, mà như không xảy ra.
	a learning process going on,

20:49	which doesn’t seem
	to be happening in the world.

20:57	It is not just going to work	Đó không chỉ đi làm và làm việc...
	and doing a job,

21:00	it is going to work and learning.	...mà đi làm và học.

21:02	Then when you are out of work,	Rồi khi rời công việc bạn vẫn tiếp tục học.
	you continue this learning.

21:06	You can adapt your free time	Có thể thích nghi thì giờ rảnh với thì giờ làm.
	to your work time.

21:09	How many people go home	Bao nhiêu người về nhà và xem xét công việc...
	and consider their jobs

21:13	when they are	...khi họ không ở văn phòng?
	not at their office?

21:15	How many people go home and	Bao nhiêu người về nhà và cố học thêm về cuộc sống...
	try to learn more about their lives,

21:19	whether they are at work	...dù họ đi làm hay họ ở nhà?
	or whether they are at home?

21:28	K: Having said that,	K:Nói như vậy, tôi ở đâu?
	where am I?

21:32	Where are you?	Bạn ở đâu?

21:34	Are we still dealing	Chúng ta còn xử sự cái có lẽ là...
	with what might be,

21:37	what should be,	...cái sẽ là, cái phải là, hay giáp mặt sự kiện?
	what ought to be,

21:40	or are we facing the fact?

21:44	You understand?	Bạn hiểu không? Giáp mặt sự kiện.
	Facing the fact.

21:47	Q: We are facing the fact,	Q:Chúng ta giáp mặt sự kiện là có phân chia lớn...
	there is a big separation

21:49	between our work lives	...giữa sống công việc và thì giờ rảnh.
	and our free time.

21:56	K: Sir, do I face the fact,	K:Tôi có giáp mặt, xin nghe đi, tôi có giáp...
	– please, kindly listen -

22:01	do I face the fact, you and I,	...mặt sự kiện, bạn và tôi, chúng ta là thành phần xã hội?

22:04	that we are part of this society?

22:09	We have contributed to it,	Chúng ta góp phần vào đó...

22:13	our parents have contributed to it,	...cha mẹ chúng ta góp phần vào, ông bà tổ phụ (cười)...

22:17	our grandparents’ parents,
	and so on,

22:19	they have contributed to this,	...v.v.., họ góp phần vào đó, và bạn góp phần.

22:23	and one is contributing.

22:25	Is that a fact?	Đó là sự kiện? Tôi có biết vậy?
	Do I realize that?

22:31	Q: It is very, very clear	Q:Rất là rõ ràng như thế.
	that that is so.

22:34	K: No, sir,	K:Không, hãy lấy một vấn đề và giải quyết nó chậm thôi.
	let us take that one point

22:38	and work that out slowly, please.

22:42	Do you and we together realise,	Bạn có, và chúng ta có cùng biết, nghĩa như bạn biết đau...
	in the sense realise,

22:49	as you realise pain,
	as you realise a toothache,

22:57	do we realise it	...như bạn biết đau răng, bạn có biết mình góp phần vào đó?
	that we’re contributing to it?

23:02	Right?	Phải không?

23:04	Do we?	Có không?
		Q:Vâng, có.

23:06	Q: Yes, we do.

23:08	Q: Yes, we are contributing to it

23:10	with eyes	Q:Vâng, chúng ta góp phần vào đó với đôi mắt...
	of our own past conditioning

23:13	if we are still involved in it and	...của qui định cũ nếu chúng ta còn kẹt trong đó và không...
	don’t see what is not right for now,

23:19	for our present position	...thấy cái gì không đúng cho thái độ sống chúng ta hiện giờ.
	of living now.

23:22	Yes, we are in that case.	Vâng, chúng ta ở trường hợp ấy.

23:26	Q: No, I don’t see. If...	Q:Không, tôi không thấy. Nếu...

23:31	K: That’s if,	K:Là nếu (cười), phải, hay có lẽ.
	ought, or might.

23:38	Q: Sir, we must know	Q:Phải biết mình góp phần vào đó cách nào, tại sao...

23:41	how we are contributing to it,
	why we are contributing to it,

23:47	the whole effect of what	...góp phần, cả ảnh hưởng nào mà sự góp phần ấy liên quan.
	that contribution involves.

23:52	How do we contribute to it?	Chúng ta góp phần cách nào?

23:55	Q: If you analyse it,	Q:Nếu phân tích, bạn cứ làm mãi.
	you’re taking forever.

23:56	You must look at it, understand it,	Bạn phải nhìn nó, hiểu nó, và nói, 'Nào, tôi hiểu...
	and say, ‘Look, I understand it,

24:00	and I’m no longer like that,	...và tôi không còn thích nó nữa, và tôi sẽ ra khỏi nó.'
	and I am going to go out of it’.

24:05		Không, bạn không!

24:08	No, you don’t!	Bạn có thể làm trong một giây.
	You can do it in an instant.

24:25	Q: Sir, I cannot face the fact	Q:Tôi không thể đối mặt sự kiện bởi suy nghĩ xen vào.
	because thought intervenes.

24:30	K: Can’t you face the fact?	K:Bạn không thể giáp mặt sự kiện?

24:33	When we say,	Khi nói, 'Tôi là một phần của xã hội', ý chúng ta là gì?
	‘I am part of that society’,

24:39	what do we mean by that?

24:42	Q: I don’t see it at all...	Q:Tôi không thấy thế... (không nghe)

24:49	K: Sir, how are we going	K:Làm thế nào chúng ta sẽ cùng...
	to talk over together

24:52	when each one of us is pulling	...thảo luận khi mỗi người kéo đi một hướng?
	in different directions?

24:57	Can’t we think together	Chúng ta không thể cùng nghĩ một việc: đó là...
	about this one thing:

25:02	that is,

25:03	we human beings have	...con người tạo ra xã hội, chứ không phải thần thánh nào...
	created this society,

25:09	not gods, not angels, nobody,

25:14	but human beings have created	...nhưng con người tạo ra xã hội đáng sợ, bạo lực, phá hoại.

25:16	this terrible, violent,
	destructive society.

25:21	And we are part of that.	Và chúng ta là một phần đó.

25:24	When we say we are part of it,	Nói chúng ta là một phần đó, chữ 'một phần' có nghĩa gì?

25:27	what do we mean by that word ‘part’?

25:32	You understand my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không? Hãy bắt đầu chậm thôi.

25:34	Just begin slowly, please.

25:37	What do I mean	Khi nói tôi là một phần nó, nghĩa là sao?
	when I say I am part of that?

25:43	Q: Sir, isn’t the approach	Q:Không phải lối tiếp cận ngài đã dùng...
	you are taking

25:46	already setting up a division	...dựng lên phân chia tôi và xã hội sao?
	between me and society?

25:51	In other words,	Nói cách khác có cái gọi là xã hội...
	is there such a thing as society,

25:54	or is this here society,	...hay đây là xã hội, và tôi và ngài không là xã hội ư?

25:57	and not I and you society?

26:01	When you set up this	Khi ngài dựng lên xã hội đáng sợ, kinh khiếp...
	monstrous, horrible society,

26:05	it is an abstraction	...nó trừu tượng khác với mọi người trong phòng này.

26:06	that is different
	from the people in this room.

26:08	K: Yes, sir, I am saying that.	K:Vâng, tôi nói thế.

26:10	I am exactly saying that: society	Tôi nói đúng là: xã hội không phải ngoài kia, xã hội ở đây.
	is not out there, society is here.

26:16	Q: Right here.	Q:Ngay đây.
	K: Yes, sir, right here.	K:Vâng, ngay đây.

26:19	Q: Well, then can’t
	we all work together

26:21	and lose our past conditioning	Q:Vậy chúng ta không thể cùng làm việc và mất qui định cũ...
	of these words

26:25	that you have been saying to us	...về những chữ ngài đã nói với chúng ta qua nhiều năm và...
	for all of these years

26:29	and begin to act ensemble,	...bắt đầu cùng hành động, cách nào đó mới tinh và sáng tạo?

26:32	in some form or other
	that’s new and creative?

26:41	K: Madame, we can’t work together.	K:Chị à, chúng ta không thể cùng làm việc.

26:44	That is a fact.	Đó là sự kiện. Chúng ta không thể cùng suy nghĩ...
	We can’t think together,

26:48	we don’t seem to be able	...dường như không thể cùng làm điều gì, trừ khi bị ép buộc...
	to do anything together,

26:55	unless we are forced,

26:57	unless there is a tremendous crisis,	...trừ khi có khủng hoảng lớn, như chiến tranh, mới họp lại.
	like war, then we all come together.

27:02	If there is an earthquake,	Nếu có động đất chúng ta đều kẹt trong đó.
	we are all involved in it.

27:07	But remove the earthquakes,	Nhưng dẹp động đất đi, khủng hoảng về chiến tranh...
	the great crises of war,

27:11	we are back into our separate	...chúng ta quay về cái ngã nhỏ bé riêng, đánh đấm nhau.
	little selves, fighting each other.

27:16	Right? This is so obvious.	Phải không? Hiển nhiên đó.

27:20	I saw a woman some years ago,	Mấy năm trước tôi thấy một phụ nữ Anh, giới quý tộc...

27:24	who was English, aristocratic,	...v.v.., trong chiến tranh họ sống...
	and all the rest of it,

27:29	during the war they all lived in	...dưới hầm, bạn biết đó, hầm ngầm, và cô nói...
	the underground, you know, the tube,

27:36	and she said, it was marvellous,	...thật tuyệt vời, 'Chúng tôi ở chung nhau, hỗ trợ lẫn nhau'.

27:38	‘We were all together,
	we supported each other’.

27:42	When the war was over,	Khi chiến tranh chấm dứt cô trở về lâu đài và - chấm hết!

27:43	she went back to her castle
	and – finished!

27:59	Can we just look at this	Chúng ta có thể nhìn nó một phút?
	for a minute?

28:03	When we say we are part of that,	Khi nói chúng ta là một phần nó, là ý niệm hay thực tế?

28:07	is it an idea or an actuality?

28:14	idea, I mean by that, a concept,	...ý niệm, nghĩa là, quan niệm, hình ảnh, kết luận.

28:19	a picture, a conclusion.

28:24	Or is it a fact,	Hay là sự kiện, như đau răng là sự kiện?
	like having a toothache is a fact?

28:32	Q: It’s both.	Q:Cả hai.

28:35	K: No?	K:Không à? Bạn phải làm gì?

28:37	What is one to do?	Phải không?
	Right?

28:39	Is it a fact to us	Phải sự kiện tôi là một phần xã hội?
	that I am part of this society?

28:47	Q: I a m that society.	Q:Tôi là xã hội ấy.
	K: Oh, I am that society.	K:Ồ, tôi là xã hội ấy.

28:52	Then what is happening out there	Vậy điều gì xảy ra ngoài kia nơi tôi góp phần vào?
	to which I am contributing?

29:06	Am I seeking my own security,	Tôi có tìm an toàn riêng, kinh nghiệm riêng...

29:13	my own experiences,

29:19	involve d in my own problems,	...dính vào vấn đề riêng, quan tâm đến tham vọng riêng.

29:24	concerned with my own ambitions.

29:28	Right?	Phải không?

29:30	So each one is striving,	Mỗi người cố gắng, vì mình - phải không? như xã hội hiện có.
	for himself

29:35	– right? –

29:36	as society exists now.

29:40	And probably that has been	Và có lẽ đó là diễn tiến lịch sử...
	the historical process

29:44	right from the beginning,	...ngay từ khởi thuỷ, mỗi người tranh đấu cho chính hắn.

29:45	each one struggling for himself.

29:50	Right?	Phải không?

29:50	And therefore	Và vì vậy người này chống người kia.
	each one opposed to another.

29:55	Now, do we realise that?	Chúng ta có thấy vậy không?
		Q:Vâng.

29:57	Q: Yes.

30:00	Q: What else can we do, we are	Q:Có thể làm gì khác, chúng ta nhỏ bé, xã hội... (không nghe)
	small, the society is big...

30:05	K: Wait! We’ll find out	K:Khoan! Chúng ta sẽ tìm coi làm gì, chị à...
	what to do, madame;

30:07	first start from that	...trước hết bắt đầu thật gần, rồi có thể đi tiếp.
	which is very near,

30:12	and then we can go on.	Phải không?
	Right?

30:18	We are talking	Chúng ta nói về sống hàng ngày.
	about our daily life.

30:25	And our daily life apparently,	Và sống hàng ngày như, hay là, không chỉ một phần xã hội...
	or is,

30:32	not only part of the society,

30:35	but also we are encouraging	...mà chúng ta còn khuyến khích xã hội bởi hành động mình.
	this society by our activities.

30:41	Right?	Phải không?

30:43	Do we know this, do we say,	Chúng ta có biết và nói, 'Vâng, lạy trời nó vậy đó'.
	‘Yes, by Jove, it is so’.

30:48	Then what shall I do	Vậy thì tôi sẽ làm gì, như một người...
	as a human being,

30:56	being part of this society,	...là thành phần xã hội, tôi sẽ làm gì, trách nhiệm gì?

30:58	what shall I do,
	what is my responsibility?

31:06	Take drugs?	Dùng ma tuý?

31:08	Grow a beard?	Để râu?

31:11	Run off?	Chạy trốn?

31:14	What is my responsibility? Yours?	Tôi trách nhiệm gì?
	You don’t answer.

31:15		Còn bạn? Bạn không trả lời.

31:19	Q: To do something about it.	Q:Làm gì đó chứ.

31:22	K: What?	K:Gì nào? Trước hết...
	First, sir...

31:24	Q: First, to see.	Q:Thấy trước. Tôi thấy...
	I see...

31:26	K: I can only do something about it	K:Tôi chỉ có thể làm gì đó khi chính tôi sáng suốt.
	when I am clear in myself.

31:33	Right?	Phải không?

31:45	Q: Is it not astonishing;

31:49	if we are clear	Q:Không ngạc nhiên nếu chúng ta sáng suốt và hợp lý...
	and logical about it,

31:52	we can be excluded	...chúng ta có thể bị loại khỏi xã hội.
	from the society.

32:03	K: All right.	K:Được rồi.

32:04	So let’s find out	Vậy hãy tìm xem làm sao bạn sáng suốt.
	how to be clear in oneself.

32:09	How to be certain about things.	Làm sao chắc chắn về sự việc.

32:16	Let’s find out	Tìm xem bạn có thể an toàn.
	if one can have security.

32:21	Right?	Phải không?
	Both psychological and physical.

32:22		Cả tâm lý và vật lý.

32:24	So how does a mind which is	Vậy làm sao trí óc rối loạn, như đa số người...
	confused, as most people’s are,

32:34	how is that confusion to be	..làm sao rối loạn ấy được quét sạch để có sáng suốt.
	wiped away so that there is clarity.

32:40	Right?	Phải không?

32:41	If there is clarity,	Nếu sáng suốt tôi có thể hành động.
	from there I can act.

32:46	Right?	Phải không?

32:48	Is that clear?	Rõ chứ?
	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.

32:50	K: Now, how am I, a human being,
	to have clarity

32:56	about politics, about work,	K:Vậy làm sao tôi, con người, có sáng suốt về chính trị...

33:00	about my relationship with my wife,	...về việc làm, về quan hệ với vợ, chồng, bè bạn, v.v..
	husband, girl, all the rest of it,

33:04	relationship to the world,	...quan hệ với thế giới, làm sao sáng suốt khi tôi rối loạn?

33:06	how am I to be clear
	when I am so confused?

33:11	Right?	Phải không?

33:13	The gurus say one thing,	Đạo sư nói việc này, giáo sĩ nói việc kia, nhà kinh tế...
	the priests say something else,

33:17	the economist says something else,

33:20	the philosophers say something else	...nói việc nọ, triết gia nói việc khác - kịp không?
	– you follow?

33:23	The analysts say something else –	Nhà phân tích nói gì, như đau khổ nguyên thuỷ, hay gì đó.
	primordial pain, or whatever it is.

33:31	So they are all shouting,	Vậy họ đều hô hào, la lớn, viết, giải thích.
	shouting, writing, explaining.

33:35	And I am caught in that,	Và tôi bị kẹt trong đó, và càng thêm rối loạn.
	and I get more and more confused.

33:40	I don’t know whom	Tôi không biết nắm ai để sáng suốt, ai đúng, ai sai.
	to take to be clear,

33:44	who is right, who is wrong.

33:46	Right?	Phải không? Chúng ta vậy đó, phải không?
	That is our position, isn’t it?

33:50	No?	Không à?
	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.

33:53	K: So I say to myself:	K:Nên tôi nói với tôi, tôi rối loạn, bất hoà với mọi người.

33:55	I am confused,
	out with all these people.

34:01	Right?	Phải không?

34:04	Q: And then you become alone.	Q:Và ngài trở nên cô độc.

34:16	K: Look,	K:Nào, tôi muốn quét sạch rối loạn.
	I want to clear up the confusion.

34:19	Right?	Phải không?

34:20	That confusion has been caused	Rối loạn ấy do mọi người gây ra...
	by all these people,

34:24	each one saying different things.	...mỗi người nói một kiểu. Phải không?
	Right?

34:28	So I am confused.	Nên tôi rối loạn.

34:30	So I say, please, I am not going	Nên tôi nói, vậy tôi sẽ không nghe ai hết...
	to listen to any of you,

34:35	I am going to see	...tôi sẽ xem tại sao tôi rối loạn.
	why I am confused.

34:39	Let’s start from there.	Hãy bắt đầu từ đây. Phải không?
	Right?

34:42	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.
	K: Why am I confused?	K:Tại sao tôi rối loạn?

34:48	Why are you confused?	Tại sao bạn rối loạn?

34:55	K: No, stick to one thing, sir.	Q:(Không nghe)
		K:Không, nói một việc thôi.

34:58	Why are you, as a human being,	Tại sao bạn, con người, rối loạn?
	confused?

35:04	Q: Because I accept.	Q:Bởi tôi chấp nhận.

35:06	K: No, look into yourself, madame.	K:Không, nhìn mình đi, chị à.
	Don’t just throw out some word.

35:08		Đừng chỉ ném ra vài chữ.

35:11	Why am I confused?	Tại sao tôi rối loạn? Rối loạn là gì?
	What is confusion?

35:16	Let’s begin with that.	Hãy bắt đầu từ đó. Rối loạn là gì?
	What is confusion?

35:22	Q: Contradictory.	Q:Mâu thuẫn.

35:24	K: You say confusion arises	Bạn nói rối loạn khởi lên khi có mâu thuẫn, không...
	when there is contradiction,

35:30	not only out there – right? –	...chỉ thế giới ngoài kia - phải không? - mà cả trong tôi.
	in the world, but also in me.

35:36	The world is me,	Thế giới là tôi, vì vậy có mâu thuẫn trong tôi.

35:40	therefore there is
	in me contradiction.

35:45	Now, please go slowly.	Nào, hãy đi chậm thôi.

35:48	What do we mean	Chúng ta nói mâu thuẫn là gì?
	by contradiction?

35:55	Q: Separation.	Q:Phân chia.

35:57	K: Go into it, sir, look at it,	K:Tìm kiếm, nhìn, dành thì giờ.
	take time.

36:06	Why am I confused?	Tại sao tôi rối loạn?

36:09	You say	Bạn nói bởi vì có mâu thuẫn.
	because there is contradiction.

36:12	I say, what do you mean	Tôi hỏi, chữ 'mâu thuẫn' ý bạn là sao?
	by that word ‘contradiction’?

36:15	To contradict,	Đối nghịch, nói điều gì đối nghịch.
	to say something opposite.

36:21	Right?	Phải không?

36:24	That is, I say something	Tức là, tôi nói điều này và làm điều kia.
	and do the opposite.

36:30	Right?	Phải không?

36:32	I think something	Tôi nghĩ một đàng và làm thì ngược lại.

36:36	and act contrary to what I think.

36:44	That is one part	Đó là một phần của mâu thuẫn.
	of contradiction.

36:49	I imitate	Tôi bắt chước bởi tôi không chắc về mình.
	because I am not sure about myself.

36:58	Then there is a contradiction.	Mâu thuẫn.

37:01	I follow because I am uncertain.	Tôi chạy theo bởi tôi bất an.

37:06	I conform, both psychologically	Tôi tuân thủ, cả tâm lý và hoàn cảnh...
	and environmentally,

37:12	because that has been	...bởi đó là qui định tôi.
	my conditioning.

37:17	So I realise contradiction	Vậy tôi nhận ra mâu thuẫn là tuân thủ, bắt chước...
	means conformity, imitation,

37:27	saying one thing and doing another,	...nói một đàng làm một nẻo, nghĩ điều này và làm thì...

37:31	thinking one thing
	and quite the opposite

37:36	– I believe in God,	...ngược lại - tôi tin Thượng đế, và tôi chặt đầu kẻ khác.
	and I chop off everybody’s head.

37:41	Right?	Phải không?

37:43	So this is what we mean	Vậy đây là ý nghĩa mâu thuẫn - 'contra dicere'...
	by contradiction

37:46	– ‘contra dicere’,

37:50	to say something	...nói điều đối nghịch với hiện là.
	opposite to what is.

37:56	Now, are we aware of this?	Giờ chúng ta hiểu nó chứ?

37:58	Let us start from this:	Hãy bắt đầu đây: chúng ta có ý thức nó?
	are we aware of this?

38:02	In ourselves, we are contradicting	Chúng ta luôn mâu thuẫn trong chính mình.
	all the time.

38:14	Now wait a minute.	Nào, đợi chút.

38:16	If you are aware of it,	Nếu bạn ý thức nó, chúng ta sẽ làm gì?
	then what shall we do?

38:23	You understand my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không?

38:26	I am aware that I am contradictory:	Tôi ý thức tôi mâu thuẫn: nói một việc trên sàn này...
	say one thing on the platform,

38:31	go home	...về nhà và làm ngược lại.
	and do quite the opposite.

38:36	Personally I don’t	Tôi không thế, nếu thế tôi không bao giờ ngồi trên sàn này.

38:37	– if I did, I would never
	appear on the platform.

38:43	So I go do something	Tôi sẽ đi làm việc gì khác.
	quite different.

38:47	And I say, why am I doing this	Và hỏi, tại sao tôi làm vậy - bạn hiểu không?
	– you understand?

38:51	I say one thing	Tôi nói điều này và làm điều kia, tại sao?
	and do quite the opposite – why?

38:59	No, find out, madame,	Không, tìm đi, tìm hiểu chính bạn, tìm đi.
	go into yourself, find out.

39:20	Is it, I say one thing	Có phải, tôi nói gì làm vui bạn...
	to please you,

39:29	to make myself popular,	...để làm tôi nổi tiếng, có danh là nhiều...

39:32	to have a reputation
	of having immense knowledge,

39:37	and go home,	...kiến thức, và về nhà, làm gì đó ngược lại?
	do everything contrary to that?

39:43	Because I want to impress you,	Bởi tôi muốn gây ấn tượng với bạn, tôi muốn khoe tôi hơn bạn...

39:46	I want to show
	I am much bigger than you,

39:50	I know much more than you,	...tôi biết nhiều hơn bạn, và về nhà xử sự như đứa bé.

39:55	and go home and behave like a child.

40:00	Now why do I do this?	Tại sao tôi làm thế?

40:03	Not I	Không phải tôi - tại sao bạn làm vậy?
	– why do you do it?

40:08	Q: Sir, how to become aware	Q:Làm thế nào ý thức qui định mình, khi nói chuyện...
	of my conditioning

40:14	while speaking	...về qui định mình, có thể nào không diễn thành lời?
	about my conditioning,

40:18	is it possible
	without verbalising it.

40:20	Because you are always saying,	Bởi ngài luôn nói, tìm hiểu chính mình, và tôi cố làm thế...
	go into yourself,

40:24	and I try to do that,

40:26	and I seem to have a great need to	...và dường như tôi rất cần nói và cố gắng khám phá...
	speak and to try to discover myself

40:33	while others are listening,	...mình khi lắng nghe, và tôi nghe chính mình.

40:35	and I am listening myself.

40:37	Is this correct,	Vậy đúng không, hay là ảo tưởng?
	or is this an illusion?

40:43	K: When I ask, why do I do it	K:Khi tôi hỏi, tại sao tôi làm thế - hãy nghe hai phút...

40:47	– please, listen for two minutes –

40:50	am I looking for a cause?	...tôi có tìm nguyên nhân?

40:55	You understand my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không?

40:59	I say, why am I contradicting	Tôi hỏi, tại sao tôi tự mâu thuẫn trong đời sống, việc này nọ.
	myself in my life,

41:06	one thing and another.

41:09	And so I say,	Và tôi hỏi, khi tôi hỏi tại sao, tôi muốn tìm nguyên nhân.

41:10	when I ask the question why,
	my desire is to find a cause.

41:17	Right?	Phải không?

41:18	Please, listen for a few minutes.	Hãy nghe vài phút.

41:23	I’ve discovered the cause	Tôi khám phá nguyên nhân qua phân tích...
	through analysis;

41:28	and will that discovery of the cause	...và khám phá nguyên nhân ấy có chấm dứt mâu thuẫn không?
	finish the contradiction?

41:35	You understand my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không?

41:37	I have discovered the cause	Tôi khám phá nguyên nhân tại sao tôi mâu thuẫn - bởi tôi sợ...
	why I contradict

41:43	– because I am frightened,

41:45	because I want to be popular,	...bởi tôi muốn nổi danh, bởi tôi muốn được coi trọng...

41:49	because I want to be well-regarded,

41:54	I want public approval,	...muốn dư luận tán thành, và bên trong tôi làm điều khác.

41:59	and inwardly I do something else.

42:05	The cause is, perhaps,	Nguyên nhân là, có lẽ, trong tôi bất an.
	that in myself I am uncertain.

42:18	I depend on you,	Tôi lệ thuộc bạn, hay gì khác, nên trong tôi thực bất an.
	or something else,

42:23	so in myself	Nên tôi nói một điều và mâu thuẫn với tôi.
	I am absolutely uncertain.

42:29	So I say one thing	Phải không?
	and contradict myself. Right?

42:34	Take it for a minute, madame,	Dành một phút đi, chị à, từng bước, lạy trời...
	step by step, for god’s sake,

42:38	you people are all so...	...các bạn đều vậy... Và tôi khám phá nguyên nhân...

42:42	And I discover the cause,

42:45	and the cause is not going	...và nguyên nhân sẽ không chấm dứt mâu thuẫn.
	to finish the contradiction.

42:53	Would you follow something?	Bạn theo dõi chứ?

42:58	The cause and the effect	Nguyên nhân và hậu quả không hề như nhau...
	are never the same,

43:10	because the cause	...bởi nguyên nhân thành hậu quả, và hậu quả thành nguyên nhân.
	becomes the effect,

43:14	and the effect becomes the cause.

43:19	It is a chain.	Sợi dây xích.

43:21	I wonder if you see that.	Bạn có thấy vậy không.

43:25	So I find it is futile	Nên tôi thấy tìm nguyên nhân là vô ích.
	to find the cause.

43:33	The fact is I am uncertain,	Sự kiện là tôi bất an...

43:38	and therefore	...và vì vậy có mâu thuẫn, muốn được an toàn.
	there is a contradiction,

43:41	wanting to be certain.

43:44	Inwardly I am uncertain,	Bên trong tôi bất an...

43:47	and wanting to be certain,	...và muốn được an toàn, đó là mâu thuẫn.

43:49	which is a contradiction.

43:53	Right?	Phải không?

43:56	So why am I uncertain?	Vậy tại sao tôi bất an?

44:00	Uncertain about what?	Bất an về điều gì?

44:05	Q: Have you not	Q:Ngài không tự mâu thuẫn sao?
	contradicted yourself?

44:18	You just said, looking for a cause	Ngài chỉ nói tìm nguyên nhân là chạy trốn.
	is running away.

44:24	K: The gentleman says, I have just	K:Anh bạn nói tôi mâu tự mâu thuẫn, chỗ nào vậy?
	contradicted myself, which is where?

44:32	I’d like it to be pointed out.	Tôi muốn được chỉ ra.

44:35	Don’t just say you have	Đừng chỉ nói ngài tự mâu thuẫn.
	contradicted yourself.

44:38	I’d like to find out	Tôi muốn tìm ra tôi tự mâu thuẫn chỗ nào...
	where I have contradicted myself;

44:45	it is so hopeless	...thật vô vọng nói chuyện với thế hệ này! - tôi bất an.
	to talk to this generation!

44:53	I am uncertain.

45:05	Q: Perhaps I may say something?	Q:Tôi có thể nói gì không?

45:07	K: Delighted, sir.	K:Rất vui lòng.
	Q: OK.	Q:Vâng.

45:11	I don’t know why I reacted to it,	Không biết sao tôi phản ứng nhưng không thể giải thích.
	but I can’t explain.

45:16	You said looking for a cause	Ngài nói tìm nguyên nhân là chạy trốn sự kiện...
	is running away from the fact,

45:23	the fact of whatever	...bất kỳ sự kiện gì ngài đang nhìn.
	you are looking at.

45:38	K: Quite right, sir.	K:Đúng thế.

45:39	Looking for a cause is	Tìm nguyên nhân là chạy trốn thực tế.
	running away from the actual.

45:43	Q: But then, the next word you say,	Q:Nhưng chữ kế ngài nói, 'tại sao', tức là tìm nguyên nhân!

45:46	is ‘why’,
	which is looking for a cause!

46:01	K: I have explained very carefully	K:Tôi đã giải thích kỹ lưỡng tôi không tìm nguyên nhân.
	that I am not looking for a cause.

46:06	Q: But you said ‘why’.	Q:Nhưng ngài nói 'tại sao'.
	K: I explained that, sir.	K:Tôi đã giải thích.

46:10	I am not dumb!	Tôi không câm! (Cười)

46:14	I know what he says.	Tôi biết anh nói gì. Tôi biết bạn nói gì.
	I know what you’re all saying.

46:20	I purposely put that question,	Tôi cố ý đặt câu hỏi ấy, dùng chữ 'tại sao'.
	used that word ‘why’.

46:26	When you use that word ‘why’,	Khi bạn dùng chữ 'tại sao', bạn tìm nguyên nhân.
	you are looking for a cause.

46:31	Please, don’t nod your head, madame.	Xin đừng gật đầu, chị à.

46:34	Q: Sir, if we are not
	looking for a cause,

46:37	why are we in the tent?	Q:Nếu không tìm nguyên nhân, tại sao chúng ta ở trong lều này?

46:44	K: I explained, sir,	K:Tôi đã giải thích, khi chúng ta hỏi tại sao...

46:51	when we ask the question why,

46:54	we generally enquire into the cause.	...thông thường chúng ta tìm nguyên nhân.

46:59	And I explained: the cause and	Và tôi giải thích nguyên nhân và hậu quả không hề như nhau...
	the effect are never the same,

47:06	because the cause	...bởi nguyên nhân sinh hậu quả, và hậu quả thành nguyên nhân.
	brings about an effect,

47:11	and the effect becomes the cause.

47:18	So to enquire into that chain	Nên tìm kiếm trong sợi xích ấy là vô dụng.
	is useless.

47:22	But when we use the word ‘why’,	Nhưng khi dùng chữ 'tại sao' tôi dùng nó theo lối riêng...
	I am using it in a special way,

47:29	which is I am enquiring,	...tức là tôi tìm tòi, không tìm nguyên nhân.
	not seeking a cause.

47:34	Right?	Phải không?

47:35	See the difference, please,	Nhìn sự khác nhau đó, nếu bạn khá giỏi.
	if you will be good enough.

47:38	If you don’t like the word ‘why’,	Nếu bạn không thích 'tại sao', hãy nói 'Nó xảy ra thế nào?'
	let us say: ‘How has this happened?’

47:47	Q: Sir, is it possible	Q:Có thể nào tìm hiểu, lời nói thôi?
	to enquire verbally?

47:51	I really would like	Tôi thực sự muốn câu trả lời.
	an answer to this.

47:52	I keep asking	Tôi hỏi mãi và ngài không trả lời...
	and you don’t answer,

47:55	and I feel that it is because	...và tôi cảm thấy bởi ngài muốn tôi tự tìm câu trả lời.
	you want me to find my own answer.

47:59	All I am really seeking is,

48:01	is it possible	Tôi thực sự tìm kiếm là, có thể nào...
	to enquire into the problem,

48:04	while expressing the problem?	...tìm hiểu vấn đề, trong khi phơi bày vấn đề?

48:11	K: No. First we must understand	K:Không.
	the usage of words verbally

48:13		Chúng ta phải hiểu cách dùng chữ trước rồi mới đi sau.

48:17	and then go behind.	Xin đừng chạy khỏi như thế!
	Sir, please don’t go off like this!

48:21	You see, we have spent 45 minutes.	Bạn xem chúng ta đã qua 45 phút.

48:24	We haven’t even touched	Chúng ta chưa thèm chạm và tìm hiểu lối sống hàng ngày.

48:34	and gone into the way
	of our daily life.

48:38	We are again going off.	Chúng ta lại bỏ đi.

48:44	So please hold on to this.	Vậy hãy giữ việc này.

48:46	Uncertain…	Bất an... tôi bất an điều gì?
	what am I uncertain about?

48:54	You, what are you uncertain about?	Bạn, bạn bất an điều gì?

48:57	Or, are you completely certain?	Hay, bạn bất an hết?

49:06	Q: I find myself	Q:Tôi thấy là khi nghe nhiều người...
	listening to many people,

49:12	and this must bring	...và nó làm tôi phải rối loạn.
	confusion in myself.

49:16	So I know that all I have to do	Nên tôi biết việc tôi phải làm là nghe chính tôi.
	is to listen to myself.

49:19	But when I say, how can I listen	Nhưng khi hỏi, làm sao tôi nghe chính mình, tôi quyết định.
	to myself, I am making a resolve.

49:24	I must listen to my parents,	Tôi phải nghe cha mẹ, ai khác...
	everybody else,

49:29	and so there is my uncertainty	...và vậy là có bất an - tôi sẽ nghe ai?
	– who shall I listen to?

49:36	K: You are saying,	K:Bạn nói, phải chăng...
	are you, sir,

49:41	that by enquiring into uncertainty	...trong khi tìm hiểu bất an, bạn tìm ra an toàn?
	you have found certainty?

49:52	Q: No.	Q:Không.

49:56	He says who should he listen to,	Anh ta nói anh nên nghe ai, cha mẹ nói chuyện này...
	his parents say one thing,

49:59	other people say other things,	...người khác nói việc kia, ngài nói việc khác nữa.
	you say another thing.

50:02	K: That is what I said.	K:Tôi nói vậy đó (cười).

50:05	The parents say one thing,	Cha mẹ nói điều này, bạn nói việc kia...
	you say something else,

50:08	the philosophers say something else,	...triết gia nói việc khác, chính trị gia - phải không?
	the politicians – right?

50:11	They are all saying	Họ đều nói khác nhau, mỗi người.
	something different, each one.

50:16	Each guru is competing	Đạo sư này cạnh tranh với đạo sư kia...
	with the other guru,

50:19	saying something	...nói điều hoàn toàn khác.
	entirely different.

50:21	Now	Nào - tôi phải quay lại đó à?
	– must I go back to that? –

50:28	this is brought about	...việc này sinh ra bởi áp lực của mọi người.

50:32	by the constant pressure
	of other people.

50:36	Right?	Phải không?

50:37	The pressure of the politician,	Áp lực của chính trị gia, nhà kinh tế, triết gia...
	the economist, the philosopher,

50:42	the guru, the priest, the parent,	...đạo sư, giáo sĩ, cha mẹ, ông bà, và chính bạn - phải không?
	the grandparents,

50:46	and your own
	– right?

50:49	So, please, proceed.	Vậy hãy tiếp tục.

50:52	What am I confused about?	Tôi rối loạn điều gì?

50:57	Q: About the future.	Q:Về tương lai.

51:08	K: About the future.	K:Về tương lai.

51:12	I am uncertain about the future,	Tôi bất an về tương lai, tương lai là cái tôi đã là...

51:17	the future being
	what I have been,

51:26	what I am now,	...tôi đang là, tôi có thể là.
	what I might be.

51:30	Right?	Phải không? Đó là tương lai.
	That is the future.

51:32	The future is physically uncertain,	Tương lai vật lý bất an, tâm lý bất an.
	psychologically uncertain.

51:40	So, mind is seeking certainty.	Nên trí óc tìm kiếm an toàn.

51:45	Right?	Phải không?

51:46	Being uncertain,	Bất an, nó muốn được an toàn.
	it wants to be certain.

51:51	Right?	Phải không?

51:58	Q: We are not aware	Q:Chúng ta không biết cái chúng ta đang là...
	of what we are in the moment,

52:02	otherwise the question about the	...ngược lại vấn đề tương lai chắc không đến, tôi nghĩ thế.
	future wouldn’t have come, I think.

52:16	Q: There is no certainty in thought.	Q:Không an toàn trong suy nghĩ.

52:21	K: I wonder what is	K:Tôi không biết thảo luận vấn đề nào.
	the point of this discussion.

52:29	What is the point of our having	Điểm nào chúng ta nói chuyện đây, chúng ta không ở đó.
	a conversation, which we are not.

52:34	We are saying it must be,	Chúng ta nói nó phải là, nó vậy, không vậy.
	it is so, it is not so.

52:41	Q: We might have changed	Q:Chúng ta có thể thay đổi lối sống ngay.
	the way of living now.

52:43	K: I am doing it.	K:Tôi đang làm.
	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.

52:46	K: But you won’t do it.	K:Nhưng bạn không làm.

52:47	Somebody all the time interrupting	Ai đó luôn xen vào theo lối riêng họ.
	according to his own way.

52:52	We are not thinking together.	Chúng ta không cùng suy nghĩ. Phải không?
	Right?

52:59	Q: You asked,	Q:Ngài hỏi, chúng ta bất an việc gì.
	what are we uncertain about.

53:02	And at that point I thought we were	Và tôi nghĩ chúng ta bất an nhiều việc khác nhau...
	uncertain about different things,

53:08	then the problem is not to ascertain	...rồi vấn đề không phải là xác định chúng ta bất an gì...
	what we are uncertain about

53:15	but the fact of that,	...mà sự kiện về điều...

53:17	which I think arises	...tôi nghĩ nó khởi lên từ không tỏ suốt về mâu thuẫn.
	from our unclearness

53:22	about the contradictions.

53:24	And if we look at it	Và nếu chúng ta nhìn và thấy mâu thuẫn...
	and see the contradiction,

53:29	then the uncertainty	...thì bất an có lẽ biến mất.
	would disappear.

53:34	Q: She says we should	Q:Chị ấy nói chúng ta nên nhìn bất an và nó sẽ biến mất.
	look at our uncertainty,

53:38	and then it will disappear.

53:41	K: We are doing that, sir.	K:Chúng ta đang làm thế.

53:44	I see it is impossible to have	Tôi thấy không thể nào nói chuyện với ai hết.
	a conversation with anybody.

53:48	So let’s begin this way:

53:51	are we certain in our relationship	Vậy bắt đầu lối này: chúng ta có an toàn trong quan hệ nhau?
	with each other?

53:59	Certain in one’s relationship	An toàn trong quan hệ với vợ, chồng, bè bạn?
	to one’s husband, wife, girl, boy?

54:07	I am asking you, please.	Tôi hỏi bạn đó.
	Q: No, no.	Q:Không.

54:11	Q: We are uncertain	Q:Chúng ta không an toàn trong qui định.
	in our condition.

54:14	K: Yes, uncertain in our	K:Vâng, không an toàn trong quan hệ nhau.
	relationship with each other.

54:18	Q: And society.	Q:Và xã hội.

54:27	K: Our relationship with each other	K:Quan hệ nhau tạo ra xã hội - không à?
	creates the society

54:35	– no?	Dĩ nhiên, rõ ràng.
	Of course, obviously.

54:39	If I am against you,	Nếu tôi chống bạn, tôi liền tạo ra xã hội phân chia.

54:44	then I create a society
	which is divisive.

54:48	It is so obvious this,	Hiển nhiên thế, không cần giải thích.
	we don’t have to explain.

54:53	So what is our relationship	Vậy quan hệ lẫn nhau là gì?
	with each other?

54:57	You and the speaker.	Bạn và người nói. Lấy đó đi.
	Let’s take that.

55:01	Very simple.	Rất đơn giản.

55:02	Or what is your relationship	Hay quan hệ bạn với láng giềng...
	with your neighbour,

55:08	with your wife or with your husband,	...với vợ, với chồng, hay bạn gái, v.v.. là gì?
	or with your girl and so on?

55:12	What is your relationship?	Quan hệ bạn là gì?

55:19	I presume you all have a husband	Tôi xem như bạn đều có vợ chồng, phải không?
	or a wife, haven’t you?

55:23	Q: And relationship.	Q:Và quan hệ.
	Q: And children.	Q:Và con cái.

55:25	K: Or a girl or a boy.	K:Hay bạn gái hay trai.
	Q: And children.	Q:Và con cái.

55:29	K: Sir, please answer this:	K:Hãy trả lời đi: quan hệ bạn với người khác là gì?

55:32	what is your relationship
	with another?

55:36	Q: Very poor.	Q:Rất nghèo.
		K:Nghèo?

55:44	K: Poor?

55:48	What does that mean?	Nghĩa là gì?

55:50	Q: You want to get something	Q:Ngài muốn gì đó nơi người khác.
	from the other.

55:52	K: You want to exploit	K:Bạn muốn lợi dụng kẻ khác, và hắn muốn lợi dụng bạn...
	the other one,

55:54	and he wants to exploit you,
	is that it?

56:03	Sir, look, madame,	...phải không? Nào, chị, khi nhìn vào quan hệ với kẻ khác...

56:09	when you look at one’s
	relationship with another,

56:14	is there any quality	...có đặc tính an toàn nào không?
	of certainty in it?

56:23	Therefore in that	Vậy là không có an toàn gì trong đó sao?
	there is no certainty, is there?

56:28	You might think at the beginning	Lúc đầu bạn có thể nghĩ quan hệ ấy...
	of that relationship

56:31	there is certainty,	...có an toàn nhưng dần dà an toàn đi mất.

56:32	but gradually that certainty
	peters out.

56:36	So in relationship	Vậy trong quan hệ không có an toàn.
	there is no certainty.

56:40	Why?	Tại sao? Không phải nguyên nhân.
	Not the cause.

56:44	I am asking the ‘why’ in the sense,	Tôi hỏi 'tại sao' ý nghĩa, nó xảy ra cách nào?
	how does this come about?

56:54	Why is there uncertainty	Tại sao có bất an trong quan hệ?
	in our relationships?

57:03	You don’t pursue,	Bạn không theo đuổi, theo nó...
	pursue that, please,

57:06	stick to that one thing	...hãy bám một việc đó và giải quyết đi.
	and work it out.

57:09	Q: Lack of engagement.	Q:Thiếu ràng buộc.
	K: Lack of communication?	K:Thiếu truyền thông?

57:14	Q: Lack of engagement.	Q:Thiếu ràng buộc.
		K:Thiếu ràng buộc à?

57:18	K: Lack of engagement?

57:21	Q: We are selfish.	Q:Chúng ta ích kỷ.

57:23	Q: We do not know	Q:Chúng ta không biết mình thực muốn gì.
	what we really want.

57:37	K: What shall we do?	K:(Cười) Chúng ta sẽ làm gì?

57:39	I can explain it.	Tôi có thể giải thích. Điểm nào?
	What is the point of it?

57:42	Will you see the actuality of it?	Bạn có thấy thực tế nó?

57:47	That is,	Tức là, về tình dục bạn bị khác giới thu hút.

57:51	sexually one is attracted
	to the opposite sex.

57:56	Then gradually the fascination	Rồi dần dà quyến rũ tình dục, hưng phấn, mọi thứ, mất dần.
	of sex, the excitement, all that,

58:02	peters out.	Nhưng bám víu đã hình thành.

58:05	But there is an attachment formed.	Và bám víu gây ra sợ hãi.

58:10	And the attachment causes fear.	Phải không?
	Right?

58:16	And when there is fear,	Và khi sợ hãi, yêu thương rơi xuống biển.
	love has gone overboard.

58:20	Right?	Phải không?

58:21	So there is constant division	Vậy là có phân chia triền miên, bạn và kẻ khác, phân chia mãi.
	between you and the other,

58:28	constant division.

58:32	You are asserting,	Bạn khẳng định, và hắn khẳng định.
	and he is asserting.

58:36	You dominate or he yields,	Bạn thống trị và hắn chịu thua, hay ngược lại.
	or the other way round.

58:41	So there is always this	Nên luôn có mâu thuẫn trong quan hệ...
	contradiction in our relationship,

58:50	which is a daily fact.	...đó là sự kiện hàng ngày.

58:58	And how is it that this comes about?	Và làm thế nào việc ấy xảy ra?

59:01	You understand?	Bạn biết đó, đó là vấn đề kế tiếp.
	That is the next question.

59:04	Is it because each one is	Có phải bởi vì mỗi người chỉ quan tâm họ.
	concerned about himself.

59:11	Right?	Phải không?

59:15	Why are we…	Tại sao chúng ta... tại sao mỗi người chỉ quan tâm mình?

59:17	why is each one
	concerned about himself?

59:21	How?	Làm sao?

59:24	You understand my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không?

59:27	What is the importance	Quan trọng gì mà quan tâm chính mình?
	of being concerned about oneself?

59:34	Is it because we are	Có phải bởi vì chúng ta bị qui định, bị giáo dục vậy...
	conditioned that way,

59:41	we are educated that way,

59:45	our whole environmental,	...cả áp lực xã hội, hoàn cảnh là vậy.
	social pressure is that way.

59:51	You understand?	Bạn hiểu không?

59:55	So then,	Vậy thì, bạn có thể phá vỡ nó?
	can one break away from that?

1:00:03	Break away	Phá vỡ quan hệ vị kỷ.
	from the self-centred relationship.

1:00:09	You are following?	Bạn theo kịp không?

1:00:11	Can one end this	Bạn có thể chấm dứt quan hệ vị kỷ?
	self-centred relationship?

1:00:21	Now, how is that to be done	Làm sao nó có vậy - phải không?
	– right?

1:00:24	Now, let’s stick to that.	Hãy bám nó thôi.

1:00:28	That is our daily life,	Đó là sống hàng ngày, và vì vậy...

1:00:32	and therefore...

1:00:35	Why is one, one human being,	Tại sao bạn, con người, quan tâm mình quá vậy?
	so terribly self-concerned?

1:00:42	Is it his nature?	Là bản chất? Là cần thiết sinh học?

1:00:47	Is it his biological necessity?

1:00:55	Because when one is primitive,	Bởi vì khi còn sơ khai bạn phải quan tâm chính mình...
	one has to look after oneself,

1:01:02	or one has to look after the few.	...hay bạn phải trông coi vài người.

1:01:06	And from that one may be so	Và từ đó bạn có thể bị qui định và tiếp tục.
	conditioned, one is carrying on.

1:01:13	Right?	Phải không?

1:01:14	Can that condition	Qui định ấy có thể phá vỡ, chấm dứt?
	be broken, finished?

1:01:22	Right?	Phải không?

1:01:25	Q: It seems to me that the animal	Q:Dường như bản năng loài thú được đặt ra...
	instinct has been projected

1:01:30	into the psychological field,	...trong lĩnh vực tâm lý, và nó hình thành cái 'tôi'.

1:01:32	and that has created the ‘me’.

1:01:44	K: Yes, sir, I know that.	K:Vâng, tôi biết thế. Chúng ta nói vậy.
	We’ve said that.

1:01:47	We have said that before.	Chúng ta đã nói rồi.

1:01:50	Now, one has come to the point,	Hiện giờ đến vấn đề quan hệ...
	that in our relationship,

1:01:57	each one is concerned	...mỗi người quan tâm chính hắn.
	with himself.

1:02:01	And this conditioning,	Và qui định ấy, có thể phá vỡ, thay đổi không?

1:02:05	can that be broken down, changed?

1:02:10	Q: We have to understand it.	Q:Chúng ta phải hiểu nó.

1:02:14	K: No, madame, not understand it.	K:Không, chị à, không phải hiểu.

1:02:16	All right, by understanding.	Được rồi, hiểu.
	What do you mean by understanding?

1:02:19		Ý bạn hiểu là sao?

1:02:22	Q: See the whole thing.	Q:Thấy hết sự việc.

1:02:25	K: I can’t see the whole	K:Tôi không thể thấy hết bởi trí óc tôi bị qui định.
	because my mind is conditioned.

1:02:31	That is just an idea.	Đó chỉ là ý niệm.

1:02:34	You don’t even listen…	Bạn không thèm nghe... Bạn lướt đi riêng, bạn thấy đó.
	You are off on your own, you see.

1:02:38	So I am conditioned	Vậy tôi bị qui định bởi tôi được nuôi lớn cách đó.

1:02:44	because I have been
	brought up that way.

1:02:46	Right?	Phải không?

1:02:47	My parents, my society,

1:02:49	my gods, my priests,	Cha mẹ, xã hội, thần thánh, giáo sĩ, đều nói, 'Bạn trước'...
	all have said, ‘You first’,

1:02:55	your success, your business,	...thành công bạn, công việc bạn, hạnh phúc bạn, cứu bạn - bạn.

1:02:57	your happiness,
	your salvation – you.

1:03:01	Now, can that conditioning	Nào, qui định ấy có thể phá vỡ, thay đổi?
	be broken, changed?

1:03:07	Just a minute,	Đợi chút, tôi muốn tìm hiểu...
	I want to go into it,

1:03:08	please, follow this,	...theo dõi đi, từng bước.
	step by step.

1:03:13	Will you do it as I am talking?	Bạn làm khi tôi nói chứ?

1:03:22	How do I know	Trước hết, làm sao tôi biết tôi bị qui định?
	that I am conditioned, first?

1:03:28	Is it that I am accepting the word	Phải tôi chấp nhận chữ rồi tưởng tượng mình bị qui định?

1:03:33	and then imagining I am conditioned?

1:03:37	You follow what I am saying?	Bạn theo kịp lời tôi?

1:03:39	Or is it a fact?	Hay đó là sự kiện?

1:03:46	Is it an idea or is it a fact?	Ý niệm hay sự kiện?

1:03:50	You follow? This is so.	Kịp không? Bạn hiểu không?
	You understand?

1:03:54	You understand this, madame?	Hiểu không, chị?

1:04:02	Q: Accepting the word	Q:Chấp nhận chữ rồi tưởng tượng mình qui định - đúng không?
	and imaging our own conditioning

1:04:07	– is that correct?

1:04:10	K: Look, sir,	K:Nào, tôi nghĩ mình bị qui định.
	I think I am conditioned.

1:04:17	I think.	Tôi nghĩ.

1:04:21	But I don’t think I have pain	Nhưng tôi không nghĩ tôi đau khi ai đó đánh tôi.
	when somebody hits me.

1:04:27	See the difference?	Thấy khác không?

1:04:29	When somebody hits me	Khi ai đó đánh tôi và có đau...
	and there is pain,

1:04:32	I don’t ‘think’ there is pain	...tôi không 'nghĩ' có đau, đau đó.
	– there is pain.

1:04:39	Right?	Phải không?

1:04:41	Do I similarly see	Cũng vậy tôi có thấy mình qui định?
	that I am conditioned?

1:04:50	Please, sir,	Nào, hãy nghe trước.
	first listen to this.

1:04:56	Or do I think I am conditioned?	Hay tôi nghĩ tôi bị qui định.

1:05:00	The thinking ‘I am conditioned’	Nghĩ 'tôi bị qui định' không phải sự kiện.
	is not a fact.

1:05:04	But the conditioning is a fact.	Nhưng qui định là sự kiện.

1:05:09	Right?	Phải không?
	Q: Yes, sir.	Q:Vâng.

1:05:17	K: I am going on.	K:Tôi tiếp tục.

1:05:23	So I am only dealing with fact,	Vậy tôi chỉ xử sự với sự kiện, không với ý niệm.
	not with the idea.

1:05:28	The fact is I am conditioned.	Sự kiện là tôi bị qui định.

1:05:31	Now, go slow.	Nào, đi chậm thôi.

1:05:34	In what manner	Tôi nhìn sự kiện cách nào?
	do I look at the fact?

1:05:38	That is very important.	Việc ấy rất quan trọng. Phải không?
	Right?

1:05:42	You are following this?	Bạn theo kịp không?

1:05:43	In what manner	Tôi quan sát sự kiện cách nào?
	do I observe the fact?

1:05:50	In observing the fact do I say,	Khi quan sát sự kiện tôi nói, 'Tôi phải rời nó'?
	‘I must get rid of it’?

1:05:57	Or do I say,	Hay tôi nói, 'Tôi phải thắng nó, phải loại bỏ nó', v.v..?
	‘I must conquer it,

1:06:04	I must suppress it’,
	and so on?

1:06:07	In what manner	Tôi nhìn sự kiện cách nào?
	do I look at the fact?

1:06:13	You have understood?	Bạn hiểu không?

1:06:15	How do you look at it?	Bạn nhìn nó thế nào.

1:06:20	Q: With fear.	Q:Với sợ hãi.
		Q:Tôi là nó.

1:06:26	Q: I am it, sir.

1:06:33	K: Is the fact	K:Phải sự kiện - theo dõi nhé...
	– please, follow this –

1:06:36	is the fact different from me	...phải sự kiện khác với tôi, người quan sát sự kiện?
	who is observing the fact?

1:06:44	Have you understood my question?	Bạn hiểu câu hỏi không?

1:06:45	Q: No.	Q:Không.
	Q: Yes.	Q:Có.

1:06:48	K: The fact is I am conditioned.	K:Sự kiện là tôi bị qui định.

1:06:53	And I am saying,	Và tôi nói, làm sao tôi nhìn sự kiện, tôi nhìn nó cách nào?
	how do I look at the fact,

1:06:56	in what manner do I look at it?

1:06:59	Do I look at it, the fact,	Tôi nhìn nó, sự kiện, như điều gì khác tôi?
	as something different from me?

1:07:05	Or that conditioning is me?	Hay qui định ấy là tôi?

1:07:10	Please, go slowly.	Hãy đi chậm thôi.

1:07:15	Right?	Phải không?

1:07:17	How do you look at it?	Bạn nhìn nó cách nào?

1:07:20	Do you look at it as though	Bạn nhìn nó như bạn tách biệt với sự kiện...
	you were separate from the fact,

1:07:26	or you say,	...hay bạn nói, 'Vâng, sự kiện là tôi'?
	‘Yes, that fact is me’?

1:07:31	Q: Separate.	Q:Tách biệt.

1:07:37	Q: At first, you are involved in it.	Q:Ban đầu ngài kẹt trong đó.

1:07:41	K: Look, madame,	K:Nào, chị à, giận có khác bạn?
	is anger different from you?

1:07:48	Obviously not.	Dĩ nhiên không.

1:07:54	So is your conditioning	Vậy qui định khác bạn sao?
	different from you?

1:07:57	Q: No.	Q:Không.
	K: That’s it.	K:Đúng vậy.

1:07:59	Now you are getting it.	Giờ thì bạn hiểu rồi.

1:08:06	So you are now observing the fact	Vậy giờ bạn nhìn sự kiện như nó là bạn, bạn là sự kiện.

1:08:10	as though it was you,
	you are the fact.

1:08:14	Now wait a minute.	Nào đợi chút. Vậy điều gì xảy ra?
	So what happens?

1:08:21	Q: We observe the fact that we are	Q:Chúng ta quan sát sự kiện là mình chỉ sống trong ý niệm.
	living in the field of ideas only.

1:08:29	K: Sir, your minds	K:Trí óc bạn không được luyện tập.
	are not trained.

1:08:37	Your minds are vague, you know,	Trí óc bạn mơ hồ, bạn biết đó, luôn di chuyển.
	moving all over the place.

1:08:41	Here is a problem, look at it.	Vấn đề đây, nhìn nó đi.

1:08:46	That is, anger is you.	Tức là, giận là bạn.

1:08:49	You are not	Bạn không khác với giận.
	different from the anger.

1:08:52	Wait, wait.	Khoan. Đợi đã.

1:08:53	When you are angry,	Khi bạn giận, bạn là nó...
	you are that,

1:08:58	then thought comes along	...rồi suy nghĩ đến và nói, 'Tôi đã giận'.
	and says, ‘I have been angry’.

1:09:03	So thought separates	Vậy suy nghĩ phân chia bạn với giận.
	anger from you.

1:09:09	You understand?	Hiểu không?

1:09:10	So similarly:	Cũng vậy, bạn bị qui định, và qui định là bạn.

1:09:13	you are conditioned,
	and that conditioning is you.

1:09:21	Wait.	Khoan.

1:09:24	What can you do if it is you?	Bạn có thể làm gì nếu nó là bạn?

1:09:27	Q: Nothing.	Q:Không gì.
	K: No, wait, watch.	K:Không, khoan, nhìn đi.

1:09:29	My god, you’re all so…	Lạy trời bạn đều...

1:09:41	The speaker’s skin is	Người nói da hơi nâu.
	a little brown. Right?

1:09:48	That’s brown.	Phải không? Nâu.

1:09:50	But when he says,	Nhưng khi hắn nói, 'Tôi phải thay đổi nó...
	‘I must change it to something else

1:09:54	because white people are better’,	...bởi vì người da trắng tốt hơn', tôi liền xung đột.

1:09:58	then I am in conflict.

1:10:01	But when I say,	Nhưng khi nói, 'Vâng, nó vậy', điều gì xảy ra với trí óc tôi?
	‘Yes, it is so’,

1:10:04	what has happened to my mind?

1:10:07	Q: Thought has...	Q:Suy nghĩ...

1:10:07	K: Sir, don’t jump into it yet,	K:Đừng vội nhảy vào, tìm đi.
	enquire.

1:10:16	What has happened to the mind	Điều gì xảy ra với trí óc nói lúc nảy, 'Giận khác với...

1:10:19	that has said before,
	‘Anger is different from me’,

1:10:25	but now the mind says,	...tôi', nhưng giờ trí óc nói, 'Ngốc quá, giận là tôi'.
	‘That is silly, anger is me’.

1:10:31	Now, similarly, the mind has said,	Cũng vậy, trí óc nói, 'Qui định khác với tôi'...
	‘Conditioning is different from me’,

1:10:36	and realises the conditioning is me.	...và nhận ra qui định là tôi.

1:10:41	Right?	Phải không?

1:10:42	So what has happened	Vậy điều gì xảy ra với trí óc?
	to the mind?

1:10:45	Q: It is clear.	Q:Sáng suốt.
	K: Oh, sir,

1:10:49	please, don’t jump to things	K:Ồ, xin đừng nhảy vào điều bạn chưa thấy thực.
	which you don’t see actually.

1:10:53	Don’t repeat anything,	Đừng lặp lại gì, đừng nói gì...
	don’t say anything

1:10:55	that you yourself	...mà chính bạn chưa thấy.
	have not seen.

1:10:59	Q: There is no longer conflict.	Q:Không còn xung đột. Xung đột được giải quyết.
	Conflict is resolved.

1:11:08	K: The mind now is	K:Trí óc giờ không mâu thuẫn nữa.
	not in contradiction.

1:11:15	Right?	Phải không? Tôi chỉ ra hết rồi.
	That is all I am pointing out.

1:11:17	It is no longer saying,	Không còn nói, 'Tôi phải làm gì đó'.
	‘I must do something about it’.

1:11:25	Get it?	Hiểu không?
	Q: Yes.	Q:Vâng.

1:11:27	K: So the mind now is free	K:Vậy trí óc giờ thoát khỏi ý niệm, quan niệm...
	from the idea, from the concept,

1:11:33	from the conditioning	...khỏi qui định mà tôi phải hành động.
	that I must act upon it.

1:11:39	Right?	Phải không?

1:11:42	So the mind is now free to look.	Vậy trí óc giờ tự do để nhìn.

1:11:48	Are you following this?	Bạn theo kịp không? Chỉ nhìn.
	Just to look.

1:11:52	What is that?	Đó là gì?

1:11:55	The mind says,	Trí óc nói, 'Tôi bị qui định'...
	‘I am conditioned’,

1:11:58	not the mind is conditioned,	...không phải trí óc bị qui định, mà mọi việc bị qui định.
	but the whole thing is conditioned.

1:12:03	So it says,	Nên nó nói, 'Giờ hãy quan sát qui định'.
	‘Now observe that conditioning’.

1:12:10	What takes place	Điều gì xảy ra khi bạn quan sát?
	when you observe?

1:12:15	There is no observer,	Không có người quan sát bởi người quan sát...

1:12:16	because the observer is not
	different from the thing observed,

1:12:20	there is only observation.	...không khác vật bị quan sát, chỉ có quan sát.

1:12:23	Right?	Phải không?
	Q: Yes, sir.	Q:Vâng.

1:12:26	K: Are you following this?	K:Theo kịp chứ? Không, không lời nói, thực tế kìa.
	No, not verbally, actually.

1:12:31	Then what takes place	Rồi thì việc gì xảy ra khi bạn quan sát?
	when you observe?

1:12:35	Observe purely,	Thuần quan sát, không có méo mó nào.
	not give it a distortion.

1:12:43	Distortion takes place	Méo mó xảy ra khi bạn nói, 'Tôi phải thay đổi nó'.
	when you say, ‘I must change it’.

1:12:48	Or, ‘I must suppress it,	Hay, 'Tôi phải loại nó, tôi phải vượt qua'.
	I must go beyond it’.

1:12:51	All that has ended	Mọi cái đó chấm dứt bởi bạn chỉ quan sát...
	because you are merely observing

1:12:56	the fact that the mind	...sự kiện là trí óc bị qui định.
	is conditioned.

1:13:00	There is pure observation.	Thuần quan sát.

1:13:05	Right?	Phải không?

1:13:07	There is no effort made.	Không có cố gắng.

1:13:12	Then what takes place?	Rồi điều gì xảy ra?

1:13:17	The thing that is observed purely	Vật được quan sát thuần tuý trải qua thay đổi.
	undergoes a change.

1:13:28	Right?	Phải không? Kịp không?

1:13:34	You follow this?

1:13:36	You won’t,	Bạn không kịp, trừ khi bạn làm.
	unless you do it, you won’t.

1:13:40	Unless you apply, do it,	Nếu không áp dụng, làm, bạn sẽ nói, 'Tôi không thấy'.
	you will say, ‘I don’t see it’.

1:13:46	Look,

1:13:50	under a microscope	Nào, dưới kính hiển vi bạn có thể nhìn tế bào.
	you can watch the cell.

1:14:01	If you watch it carefully,	Nếu bạn nhìn kỹ, không nói, 'Nó là tế bào, nó phải không...

1:14:03	without saying, ‘It is a cell,
	it must not be this, it is that’,

1:14:07	you see then	...thế này, thế kia', bạn sẽ thấy tế bào trải qua thay đổi.
	the cell undergoing change.

1:14:13	But if you come to it with an idea,	Nhưng nếu bạn đến với ý niệm, sự vật không chuyển động.
	the thing is not moving.

1:14:19	You understand?	Hiểu không?

1:14:21	The moment you come to it fresh	Khi bạn đến mới tinh và nhìn qua kính hiển vi...

1:14:25	and looking through the microscope
	at the cell,

1:14:28	the cell is itself moving,	...vào tế bào, tế bào tự chuyển động, vậy qui định thay đổi.

1:14:32	so the conditioning is changing

1:14:39	– you get it? –	Hiểu không? - nếu bạn thuần quan sát.

1:14:40	if you observe purely.

1:14:47	Now, to come back:	Giờ trở lại: tôi quan sát, bạn quan sát quan hệ mình...

1:14:53	I observe, one observes
	one’s relationship,

1:14:57	which is in daily life,	...trong sống hàng ngày, thuần quan sát.

1:15:00	to observe it purely.

1:15:05	Can you observe your relationship	Có thể nào quan sát quan hệ bạn với vợ, chồng, hay gì gì...

1:15:07	with your wife, husband,
	whatever it is,

1:15:10	without the image, without the idea

1:15:17	that it is my husband, my wife,	...mà không hình ảnh, không ý niệm đó là vợ tôi, chồng tôi...
	and all the rest of it,

1:15:20	without the remembrance of sex,	...và mọi thứ khác, không nhớ lại tình dục...
	and all the rest of that,

1:15:25	just to observe	...và v.v.., chỉ quan sát quan hệ bạn với người khác?
	your relationship with another?

1:15:30	Will you do it?	Bạn sẽ làm chứ?

1:15:37	Or your attraction to the other	Hay bạn bị hút vào người khác quá mạnh nên không thể nhìn.
	is so strong

1:15:41	that it is impossible to look.

1:15:44	I see what is happening here:	Tôi thấy việc xảy ra ở đây: nắm tay...

1:15:46	holding hands, hugging each other,	...ôm nhau, mọi thứ diễn ra.
	all that is going on.

1:15:53	So those people	Nên họ dĩ nhiên không thể quan sát.
	cannot obviously observe.

1:16:01	So if you observe very closely,	Vậy nếu bạn quan sát thật gần, không người quan sát...

1:16:04	without the observer who is
	the thinker, and all the rest of it,

1:16:07	the thing itself changes.	...là người suy nghĩ, và v.v.., sự vật tự thay đổi.

1:16:12	My relationship with you,	Quan hệ tôi với bạn, hay với ai khác, vợ, chồng...
	or with another, husband, wife,

1:16:17	if I observe it quietly,	...nếu tôi im lặng quan sát nó, không áp lực...
	without any pressure, direction,

1:16:23	the thing itself changes,	...đường lối, sự vật tự thay đổi, và từ đó có yêu thương.
	and out of that love is.

1:16:28	You understand?	Hiểu không?

1:16:29	Love is not	Yêu thương không phải sản phẩm của suy nghĩ.
	the product of thought.

1:16:35	Q: What is wrong	Q:Nắm tay có gì sai chứ?
	with holding hands, sir?

1:16:37	K: Oh, for god’s sake!	K:Ồ, lạy trời!

1:16:43	What is wrong	Có gì sai khi nắm tay nhau.
	with holding hands with another.

1:16:47	You have such infantile minds.	Trí óc bạn trẻ con quá.

1:16:55	Q: Sir, when you look at the cell	Q:Khi ngài nhìn tế bào dưới kính hiển vi, tế bào...
	under the microscope,

1:16:59	the cell is changing,	...thay đổi, nhưng tế bào thay đổi dù khi ngài không nhìn.

1:17:00	but the cell is changing
	even when you are not looking.

1:17:03	K: Of course.	K:Dĩ nhiên, dĩ nhiên.
	Of course.

1:17:06	We know that.	Chúng ta biết thế.

1:17:08	You see what you have done, sir?	Bạn xem bạn đã làm gì?

1:17:10	You are not applying.	Bạn không áp dụng.

1:17:14	You have gone off to the cell.	Bạn đi lạc vào tế bào.

1:17:20	You don’t say, ‘Look,	Bạn không nói...

1:17:22	I am going to apply this.	'Nào, tôi sẽ áp dụng nó. Tôi sẽ nhìn nó.'
	I am going to watch this’.

1:17:25	‘I am going to watch my relationship	'Tôi sẽ nhìn quan hệ tôi với vợ' - hay chồng.
	with my wife’ – or husband.

1:17:33	The fact is we are separate.	Sự kiện là chúng ta phân chia.

1:17:37	He is ambitious, I am ambitious,	Hắn tham vọng, tôi tham vọng, hắn muốn này, và v.v.., phân chia.
	he wants this, and all the rest

1:17:40	– separate.

1:17:42	I am watching this separation.	Tôi nhìn phân chia ấy.

1:17:46	I don’t want to change it,	Tôi không muốn thay đổi nó, không muốn biến cải nó...
	I don’t want to modify it,

1:17:49	I don’t want to push it aside	...tôi không muốn đẩy nó sang bên bởi không biết gì sẽ xảy ra.

1:17:50	because I don’t know
	what’s going to happen.

1:17:53	So I observe.	Nên tôi quan sát.

1:17:56	Not I observe,	Không phải tôi quan sát, chỉ có quan sát.
	there is observation.

1:17:59	Right?	Phải không? Làm đi.
	Do it, sir.

1:18:06	Q: Sir, the problem is when I want	Q:Vấn đề là khi tôi muốn quan sát, đó cũng là suy nghĩ.
	to observe, that is a thought too.

1:18:15	K: No, sir,	K:Không, tôi đã giải thích rồi.
	I have explained that, sir.

1:18:21	I can’t go back to it, sir.	Không thể quay lại đó.

1:18:25	Q: But that is a problem for us.	Q:Nhưng đó là vấn đề với chúng tôi.
	K: What, sir?	K:Gì nào?

1:18:27	Q: That is a problem for us.	Q:Đó là vấn đề với chúng tôi.
	K: What is the problem?	K:Vấn đề gì?

1:18:29	Q: That we can’t observe,	Q:Không thể quan sát, chúng tôi không biết làm gì.
	we don’t know how to do it.

1:18:32	K: I am showing it to you.	K:Tôi chỉ bạn xem. Bạn không...
	You don’t…	Q:Chúng tôi không sống nó.

1:18:35	Q: We don’t live it.

1:18:36	K: Then you are not listening.	K:Bạn không nghe.
		Q:Tôi nghe, đó là vấn đề.

1:18:39	Q: I am listening,
	that is the problem.

1:18:43	K: Sir, food is put before you.	K:Thức ăn bày trước bạn.

1:18:48	Either you eat it,	Bạn ăn, hoặc không.
	or don’t eat it.

1:18:53	If you are hungry,	Nếu đói, bạn sẽ ăn.
	you will eat it.

1:18:57	If you are not hungry, you will say,	Nếu không đói, bạn sẽ nói, 'Nào, nó chẳng ý nghĩa gì'.

1:18:57	‘Well, that doesn’t mean
	anything to me’.

1:19:02	Are you hungry	Bạn có khao khát tìm lối sống, sống hàng ngày, không xung đột?

1:19:03	to find out a way of living,
	in daily life, without conflict?

1:19:10	Q: Yes.	Q:Có.
		K:Tôi bày ra cho bạn.

1:19:12	K: I am pointing it out to you.

1:19:17	So there is a way of living	Vậy có lối sống mà không có rối loạn.
	in which there is no confusion.

1:19:26	When the mind is able	Khi trí óc có thể quan sát không có đường lối...
	to observe without direction,

1:19:32	without motive,	...không lý do, tức chuyển động của suy nghĩ - chỉ quan sát.
	which is the movement of thought

1:19:35	– just to observe.

1:19:38	Observe the roof of this tent,
	the height,

1:19:42	just to observe it.	Quan sát mái của lều bạt này, chiều cao, chỉ quan sát nó.

1:19:44	The colour of your dress,	Màu áo bạn, không nói...

1:19:47	not say, ‘I like it,	...'Tôi thích, tôi không thích, tôi muốn có nó', chỉ quan sát.
	I don’t like it, I wish I had it’,

1:19:49	just to observe.

1:19:53	In the same way, if you can observe	Cũng vậy, nếu bạn có thể quan sát cả chuyển động tâm lý...
	your whole psychological movement,

1:20:00	then the thing itself	...rồi thì sự vật tự thay đổi tận gốc.
	changes radically.

1:20:05	You don’t have to practise anything,	Không cần thực hành điều gì, đạo sư, bạn ném hết sang bên.

1:20:08	gurus –
	you throw all that aside.

1:20:21	Right, sirs.	Đúng thế.

1:20:24	Q: Thank you.	Q:Cám ơn.

1:20:26	Q: Thank you, sir.	Q:Cám ơn.